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Peyton Manning tossed 5 TD the last 3 weeks to the other team (1 Viewer)

not hardly.

No Clark, No Collie, No Addai. missing 3 huge weapons. Looks like their guards are terrible as well.

Wayne looks a step slow and Garcon seems to be very inconsistent.

 
We're witnessing what happens when your receivers are all hurt and you have to pass it all the time thanks to a crap defense and no running game.

 
Dr. Awesome said:
We're witnessing what happens when your receivers are all hurt and you have to pass it all the time thanks to a crap defense and no running game.
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:confused: It's really a bad team in most phases of the game. You can see just how much it affects Manning (as it would any QB) when your O-line is a mess. But, this is not a group that can put together a consistent effort on either side of the ball.
 
I think it's a testament to the guy (along with Freeney and Mathis) that they have 6 wins.

The picks yesterday were because he was throwing as he was hit and/or his receiver got interfered with.

 
TS Garp said:
Dr. Awesome said:
We're witnessing what happens when your receivers are all hurt and you have to pass it all the time thanks to a crap defense and no running game.
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Doesn't seem to have affected Philip Rivers in the same way.
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The Chargers have over 300 yards more rushing than the Colts; Manning has over 100 more pass attempts than Rivers. Rivers has 23 TDs and 9 INTs; Manning has 22 TDs and 11 INTs. Both teams are 6-5.
 
I've seen most of the Pat/SD games and chunks of other Colt games as well.

I think that the "everyone is hurt" EXCUSE is overstated. Tamee is not a huge downgrade from Dallas Clark at all. Wayne and Garcon are in the lineup. So he's "missing" the gap between Collie and Blair White as far as receiving weapons. The run game is not working well but I do not ascribe too much of that to the Donald Brown-for-Joe Addai swap out.

Manning is getting hit more frequently. Manning does not like to get hit. Manning is a much more pedastrian passer when he gets hit.

Last year Garcon and Collie were nobody's that had to step in for the absence of Gonzalez who in 2008 looked like a real good WR and Manning was able to make do with the backups just fine.

 
Therevis no running game and they played a good defense. Don't let this performance fool you, Peyton Manning is still one of the best if not the best QB in the league.

 
Wilbur Wood said:
I've seen most of the Pat/SD games and chunks of other Colt games as well.

I think that the "everyone is hurt" EXCUSE is overstated. Tamee is not a huge downgrade from Dallas Clark at all. Wayne and Garcon are in the lineup. So he's "missing" the gap between Collie and Blair White as far as receiving weapons. The run game is not working well but I do not ascribe too much of that to the Donald Brown-for-Joe Addai swap out.Manning is getting hit more frequently. Manning does not like to get hit. Manning is a much more pedastrian passer when he gets hit.

Last year Garcon and Collie were nobody's that had to step in for the absence of Gonzalez who in 2008 looked like a real good WR and Manning was able to make do with the backups just fine.
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I do not agree with the bolded at all. Addai>>>D.brown and it is very evident. Heck Indy would be better off with Mike Hart healthy than Brown.

But they really need Addai

Tamme is huge downgrade from Dallas Clark in 1 area, run blocking

 
Wilbur Wood said:
I've seen most of the Pat/SD games and chunks of other Colt games as well.I think that the "everyone is hurt" EXCUSE is overstated. Tamee is not a huge downgrade from Dallas Clark at all. Wayne and Garcon are in the lineup. So he's "missing" the gap between Collie and Blair White as far as receiving weapons. The run game is not working well but I do not ascribe too much of that to the Donald Brown-for-Joe Addai swap out.Manning is getting hit more frequently. Manning does not like to get hit. Manning is a much more pedastrian passer when he gets hit.Last year Garcon and Collie were nobody's that had to step in for the absence of Gonzalez who in 2008 looked like a real good WR and Manning was able to make do with the backups just fine.
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My Carson joke aside, the pressure issue matters (as does the alternate receivers issue). I've noticed with Palmer that if he so much as THINKS he doesn't have enough time, he rushes his throws and makes poorer decisions. When you factor in receivers that Palm..er...Manning has had less time to work with, the idea of them not making the same read as Manning is much more likely as well. They kept mentioning that they were surprised at Manning huddling the team up so much - given the way he usually calls the game, that probably indicates a need for him to simplify things for the receivers a bit in order to get on the same page. It's actually not that different from Palmer's situation in some ways.-QG
 
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
Wilbur Wood said:
I've seen most of the Pat/SD games and chunks of other Colt games as well.

I think that the "everyone is hurt" EXCUSE is overstated. Tamee is not a huge downgrade from Dallas Clark at all. Wayne and Garcon are in the lineup. So he's "missing" the gap between Collie and Blair White as far as receiving weapons. The run game is not working well but I do not ascribe too much of that to the Donald Brown-for-Joe Addai swap out.Manning is getting hit more frequently. Manning does not like to get hit. Manning is a much more pedastrian passer when he gets hit.

Last year Garcon and Collie were nobody's that had to step in for the absence of Gonzalez who in 2008 looked like a real good WR and Manning was able to make do with the backups just fine.
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I do not agree with the bolded at all. Addai>>>D.brown and it is very evident. Heck Indy would be better off with Mike Hart healthy than Brown.

But they really need Addai

Tamme is huge downgrade from Dallas Clark in 1 area, run blocking
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Clark has never been considered much of a run blocker either. Revisionist history for announcers to start trumpeting Clark's virtures as a run blocker.Joe Addai has been a mixed bag over the past 2 years (2008/2009) and there have been several multi-game stretches during these past seasons in which Addai has not looked good at all. In fact, put Addai back into Indy's lineups of the past few weeks and my crystal ball says not a whole lot of difference in the outcomes or Peyton's production.

 
The blocking was pretty bad all around for the Colts last night. They had that segment showing how fast Manning was getting the ball out - 2 seconds or less most of the time. Seems like that's necessary for them right now to be successful because they're not holding it together up front much longer than that, and they were getting absolutely blown up when they tried to run block. 2 seconds or less every pass play, when the defense doesn't have to respect the run at all - I can't think of any non-running QB but Manning having any success in that situation.

 
Wilbur Wood said:
Manning is getting hit more frequently. Manning does not like to get hit. Manning is a much more pedastrian passer when he gets hit.
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Yeah, he's 18 yards out of the lead league in passing yardage, and one passing TD out of the league lead. Amazingly pedestrian, what a bum.
 
Wilbur Wood said:
I've seen most of the Pat/SD games and chunks of other Colt games as well.I think that the "everyone is hurt" EXCUSE is overstated. Tamee is not a huge downgrade from Dallas Clark at all. Wayne and Garcon are in the lineup. So he's "missing" the gap between Collie and Blair White as far as receiving weapons. The run game is not working well but I do not ascribe too much of that to the Donald Brown-for-Joe Addai swap out.Manning is getting hit more frequently. Manning does not like to get hit. Manning is a much more pedastrian passer when he gets hit.Last year Garcon and Collie were nobody's that had to step in for the absence of Gonzalez who in 2008 looked like a real good WR and Manning was able to make do with the backups just fine.
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Blair White was a college walk on, and went undrafted. Yet he's been in the Colts lineup most of the season. 'Nuff said.
 
BTW, I love that only SD and Pats fans are actually in here trying to diss Manning.

 
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switz said:
KnowledgeReignsSupreme said:
bostonfred said:
Manning sure looked good throwing to superstars. Weird how he doesn't look so good when they're hurt.
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And Manning himself is at least partially to blame for his receivers being hurt in the first place.
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Yes, because he actually threw the ball to them. LOL.Let me guess, it's Mannings fault for handing the ball off to Addai and Hart too, which caused them to get hurt.
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Don't be ridiculous. Have you seem some of the throws he's making? Look at that hit on Collie. That was Manning's fault for hanging him out to dry.
 
Hold up for a minute.

I just want to make a quick point about the "Manning can't win in the playoffs, but I'll admithe's the best regular season QB of all time." thinking that permeates these parts.

Part of the reason Manning has a poor record in the playoffs and doesn't take his teams deeper is becuase of exactly what we are seeing out of the Colts. That is to say, he, because he is such a good QB, gets teams into the playoffs that otherwise have no business being there. Teams that would be like the 3-8 Broncos if they were lead by an average-to-good QB.

There defense is horrible against the run (and it has been for most of the time Manning has been there). Manning covers for that fact by often getting them out to big leads, forcing teams to play catch up. Manning also has had to often compensate for a mediocre run offense (save for when Edge was playing alongside), and at times, a less-than-stellar offensive line.

Is he declining? Possibly a little. But the team around him is pretty awful. The fact that the Colts are still keeping their playoff heads above water is a testament to his play over the first half of the season. Opposing teams are simply starting to realize and take advantage of how weak and flawed the aspects of the Colts team that aren't named "Manning".

 
Speaking of the lack of a running game in Indy, has anyone heard any definitive news on Addai returning against Dallas? You have to think that he's been held out in order to make sure that his shoulder is in absolute great heath, assuring a strong playoff push in the final weeks. I feel like if he sits this week out, the rest of the season isn't looking any better for him.

Also, what is everyone's opinion on Collie now that he's suffered two concussions back to back? Expectations of a receiver who will constantly flinch and avoid contact as much as possible?

 
switz said:
BTW, I love that only SD and Pats fans are actually in here trying to diss Manning.
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I'm neither, and he has looked remarkably bad at times this season. I think the majority of it is the offensive line and its woes, as the Colts haven't had a decent run game in years (as we've discussed in other threads) so that can't really be a viable excuse. Besides, you will never establish the run game if you have no commitment to it, so you have to look at the scheme and who is calling the plays. This hasn't changed much, if it all, over the past 3 or 4 seasons, so for some to now say that Addai being out is a great setback when he has always been only an average NFL RB (and one that many thought Brown would easily supplant) is a stretch.But a few things remain true about Manning and Wilbur Wood nailed one of them: Manning is much more pedestrian when he gets hit. He doesn't move well in the pocket; when it collapses and he is no longer in that comfy bubble, he struggles. I call it "happy feet", and though others here have said he doesn't get happy feet, it was pretty clear on a few plays last night that he does. Collinsworth even did a slow-mo analysis of Peyton anticipating a hit and grimacing before rushing a pass. Couple this with his tendency to throw ducks on occasion and you will see a some of those pick 6's. While his struggles are clearly not entirely his fault, there was a lot of excuse making going on last night by the broadcasters, as well as in here.
 
If I am an opposing defense I take every opportunity to pop him in the metaphorical mouth. Manning hates contact. Last night was classic. He was constantly flinching after the first few hits. Worse, San Diego was actually mocking him. On numerous plays they left him wide and obvious running lanes in the middle of the field for huge chunks of yardage and easy first downs because they knew, absolutely knew Manning would not run where there is any chance of his taking a hit. he would rather force a ball into heavy coverage than run for a first down and even to have to risk the hit the gound applies when he slides.

 
the two this week were fluky

on the first one his arm was hit as he was throwing

on the seocnd there was clear pass interference that didn't get called

 
Neofight said:
switz said:
BTW, I love that only SD and Pats fans are actually in here trying to diss Manning.
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While his struggles are clearly not entirely his fault, there was a lot of excuse making going on last night by the broadcasters, as well as in here.
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The best part was the graphic they kept showing.
Manning 2 TDs - 4 INTS (2 from being hit)
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Seriously, when is the last time you've seen a sub description for an INT????? Hilarious.
 
Wilbur Wood said:
CalBear said:
Wilbur Wood said:
Manning is getting hit more frequently. Manning does not like to get hit. Manning is a much more pedastrian passer when he gets hit.
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Yeah, he's 18 yards out of the lead league in passing yardage, and one passing TD out of the league lead. Amazingly pedestrian, what a bum.
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"Yardage"?? Come on, look at the trend line on his TD/INT rates as his QB rating the past few games.
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If you want to call two games a trend, go ahead. You'll lose, but that's your prerogative.
 
I've been authorized to speak on behalf of my favorite team:

We would be happy to take this clearly washed up bum off the Colts' hands.

(And let's not get carried away with a couple bad throws. Especially since the second pick-six last night was as blatant a missed pass interference call as I can remember. The WR was open for a first down, and as Manning started to throw to him the defender grabbed the guy around the waist and pulled/twisted him, resulting in a fallen WR and a gift INT-TD. You can't fault Manning for that).

 
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TobiasFunke said:
I've been authorized to speak on behalf of my favorite team:We would be happy to take this clearly washed up bum off the Colts' hands.(And let's not get carried away with a couple bad throws. Especially since the second pick-six last night was as blatant a missed pass interference call as I can remember. The WR was open for a first down, and as Manning started to throw to him the defender grabbed the guy around the waist and pulled/twisted him, resulting in a fallen WR and a gift INT-TD. You can't fault Manning for that).
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This is what drives me nuts, as well as makes me rich in FF, we are so results oriented in this country that we completely gloss over the detailed analysis and ignore facts, all for a quick, easy, small sample-based solution.
 
Gr00vus said:
Neofight said:
Manning is much more pedestrian when he gets hit.
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Yeah, he sucks in comparison to all those other famous QBs who do great when they get hit.
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I'm not talking about during the act of the hit, I am talking about how they perform after contact. Plenty perform as well, some even better. Manning not so much. You must have thought those graphics describing two of his picks occurring while he was hit as objective, I suppose? Everyone gets hit in football. So what. Favre plays better when I think he is practically about to die out there. But I've never seen such a ridiculous graphic as that, nor the announcers harping on a missed call so much as on the Weddle PI no-call. The PI wasn't that bad, even with Wayne begging for the call with that flop. But to hear the broadcast was to think that Weddle had somehow used Wayne's momentum to slingshot himself around Wayne while simultaneously throwing him to the ground; it was quite amusing. Really it just wasn't a very good decision by Manning or much of an effort by Wayne.So—relative to some QB's who can take a hit and show some moxy—yeah (come to think of it), he does suck in those situations.
 
Neofight said:
Gr00vus said:
Neofight said:
Manning is much more pedestrian when he gets hit.
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Yeah, he sucks in comparison to all those other famous QBs who do great when they get hit.
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I'm not talking about during the act of the hit, I am talking about how they perform after contact. Plenty perform as well, some even better. Manning not so much.
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Until you show me some stats (and I think that'd be a pretty tough task unless Drinen is your roomate or something) backing up your surmise, I'm going to disagree.
You must have thought those graphics describing two of his picks occurring while he was hit as objective, I suppose? Everyone gets hit in football. So what. Favre plays better when I think he is practically about to die out there. But I've never seen such a ridiculous graphic as that, nor the announcers harping on a missed call so much as on the Weddle PI no-call. The PI wasn't that bad, even with Wayne begging for the call with that flop. But to hear the broadcast was to think that Weddle had somehow used Wayne's momentum to slingshot himself around Wayne while simultaneously throwing him to the ground; it was quite amusing. Really it just wasn't a very good decision by Manning or much of an effort by Wayne.
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The way it was presented by NBC was pretty silly. But those picks happened either because he was actually being hit during his throwing motion, or because of the PI. You get Wayne in one on one coverage with a safety you throw him the ball - that's a good decision.
So—relative to some QB's who can take a hit and show some moxy—yeah (come to think of it), he does suck in those situations.
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As I said, absent some statistical basis for this assertion, I'm pretty sure you're wrong.
 
Neofight said:
Manning is much more pedestrian when he gets hit. He doesn't move well in the pocket; when it collapses and he is no longer in that comfy bubble, he struggles. I call it "happy feet", and though others here have said he doesn't get happy feet, it was pretty clear on a few plays last night that he does.
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Yet another reason the people saying they'd take Manning to lead their team over Vick are crazy. Vick is used to taking one for the team to put points on the board or a first down. Manning just throws the ball away or falls down for an easy sack.
 
switz said:
BTW, I love that only SD and Pats fans are actually in here trying to diss Manning.
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Ron Jaworski isn't a SD or NE fan and he saw the decline a month ago."And then there is Peyton Manning. A top 10 all-time player, Manning's career will not be defined by the 2010 season alone, but this year is putting doubt in the minds of fans and analysts. Ron Jaworski, the very respected ESPN analyst, said earlier in the season that Manning's skills were in decline- and we agree. Statistically, Manning is having a solid year again, but in looking at his play the past four weeks you have to be concerned."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/529172-...nd-of-a-dynasty

Do I think Manning has declined a little? Probably some, but probably not any more than the offense around him as declined.

However, this does put the Manning is a god, the best ever by far crowd into a bit of a quandry. The yards the tds and the winning are always all about Peyton; Peyton this, Peyton that, there is no system, only the great Peyton Manning. However, losses and the bad stats now that things aren't going well and all of a sudden it isn't about Peyton; it is the players around him. Well which is it? For me it is and always has been a lot of both, Manning is one of the best qbs who has ever lived, but he is also a QB that has enjoyed just about every single possible advantage a QB could ever have and clearly more than any other qb of his era. Manning is a great qb, but even a great qb will look very ordinary when he doesn't have the benefit of good players and when the system around him breaks down.

IMHO, supporting players do matter and having the same talented players, the same system, same OC etc, playing together season after season really, helps. Not ever having the luxury of having great players or taking away some of those players and pieces and even the great can become mediocre; Peyton Manning is certainly no different.

 
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bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
not hardly.No Clark, No Collie, No Addai. missing 3 huge weapons. Looks like their guards are terrible as well. Wayne looks a step slow and Garcon seems to be very inconsistent.
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:thumbup: Less time to throw and less weapons make a HUGE difference. Look at his brother, do you think not having Nicks and Smith as well as the starter AND back up at LT and C make a difference? Clearly there are levels of QB's, but the surrounding talent can make an average guy look better than a good guy who has lousy talent around him.
 
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