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Peyton Manning vs. Ryan Leaf (1 Viewer)

Raider Nation

Raider Nation

Devil's Advocate
Folks were pretty much split down the middle in the spring of '98. Talk to this guy, he likes Manning better. Talk to the guy next to him, he likes Leaf better. Kinda seems like a dream now. I thought Manning should be the #1 pick, but I'll admit it was only because I like the VOLS. I really wasn't positive that Manning would be better.

Do any of you wonder if things would have been different if the Colts chose Leaf and Manning went to the Chargers? Manning went from 3-13 as a rookie to 13-3 in his second year under a veteran, solid head coach in Jim Mora. Meanwhile, Leaf was on his THIRD head coach by the time training camp rolled around in his second season.

I think it's a pretty safe bet to assume that Manning would still be a stud today had he gone to the Chargers. But the question is, do ANY of you think that Leaf would have been a very good (or great) player who would still be in the league today had he been drafted by the Colts?

The answer for me is NO. Surround Leaf with Faulk, James, Harrison... and it still wouldn't matter. The kid was a rockhead, and somehow he fooled all the scouts. Gotta admit though, he looked like one helluva competitor at Wazzu. You just never know, do ya.

:confused:

 
Leaf, even though he was 3rd in Heisman voting, really should have stayed for his senior year. His pro career could have been totally different. He may have had a bad senior season and would not have been drafted early in the 1st, or had another good year and went to another team who handled him different.

I'm glad he came out, though. He went 5th in my rookie draft, and I took Manning with the 7th, and still have him.

 
billyjoe said:
Not hard if you saw Leaf play in college.
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Or even his first two pro games. Leaf had two good wins for a team that had sucked the previous year.Then he got the flu and went into Kansas City in the middle of a typhoon, had a terrible game, and his confidence seemed to be crushed.Maybe I'm oversimplifying it, but we know there is a significant mental aspect to sports. Look at Rick Ankiel. The guy was the top young arm in the majors, and then in one playoff game against the Braves he stopped throwing strikes. Within two years he was out of the bigs and never made it back.It's hard to say. The guy was a serious head-case WAY before that game. His name is still spoken with venom in his hometown of Great Falls, Montana - even though he led his high school team to two state titles. But maybe his slight grasp on a capacity for self-control was a warning sign that he wouldn't handle the adversity of a bad game in a bad situation very well.
 
I saw all I needed to see when Leaf scored a TD against the Colts early in his career and made a huge effort to spike the ball, IMO, to show up Peyton Manning and the Colts for not draftign him.

Ryan Leaf today...sir, would you like fries with that?

 
Christo said:
billyjoe said:
Not hard if you saw Leaf play in college.
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:hijacked: He was accurate and had a nice touch on his passes. He had all of the physical tools. He's just a tool. And that's what killed his NFL career.
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I think you are both saying the same thing: It's not difficult to believe there was a debate as to who was better if you look at what Leaf was like in college.Right?
 
weisguy0831 said:
i'll admit to being one of the morons who drafted leaf and passed on manning. what the hell was i thinking?
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Hi my name is Faulkfan...and I...(quietly weeps and attempts to regain composure) I...took Ryan Leaf over Peyton Manning. :cry: (Support group): Hi Faulkfan :yawn: Oh God that feels good to get off my chest. Whew...thanks everybody. I'd love to stay, but I have to get to my "I took Curtis Enis over Fred Taylor" group therapy session before all the donuts are gone.
 
Christo said:
Despyzer said:
Christo said:
billyjoe said:
Not hard if you saw Leaf play in college.
Click to expand...
:yawn: He was accurate and had a nice touch on his passes. He had all of the physical tools. He's just a tool. And that's what killed his NFL career.
Click to expand...
I think you are both saying the same thing: It's not difficult to believe there was a debate as to who was better if you look at what Leaf was like in college.Right?
Click to expand...
No.
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Then what are you saying? You said he had all of the physical tools in college, that he was accurate with a nice touch. How is it so hard to believe that people disagreed as to who was better?
 
Despyzer said:
Christo said:
Despyzer said:
Christo said:
billyjoe said:
Not hard if you saw Leaf play in college.
Click to expand...
:unsure: He was accurate and had a nice touch on his passes. He had all of the physical tools. He's just a tool. And that's what killed his NFL career.
Click to expand...
I think you are both saying the same thing: It's not difficult to believe there was a debate as to who was better if you look at what Leaf was like in college.Right?
Click to expand...
No.
Click to expand...
Then what are you saying? You said he had all of the physical tools in college, that he was accurate with a nice touch. How is it so hard to believe that people disagreed as to who was better?
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Disregard my ramblings. I'm hung over and misread his post.
 
I agree with the OP about how close this comparison and debate seemed to be, and of course how comical it all seems now, nine years later.

IMHO Leaf's only shot was to get onto a roster and sit for at least a year the way that Palmer, Culpepper and others have done. Stay out of the limelight, decline interviews, and just learn how to work in the NFL. There's no doubt that he had physical talent. In my view he was another Jeff George, but one who wasn't healthy or stable enough even to show flashes in the NFL like George did.

 
Right after he was drafted, I saw Leaf make an appearance on Letterman. After hearing him talk for two minutes, I was convinced the guy was an idiot and didn't have the brainpower to make it as an NFL QB. How is it teams that talked to him prior to the draft didn't come to this same conclusion?

 
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Ghost Rider said:
Right after he was drafted, I saw Leaf make an appearance on Letterman. After hearing him talk for two minutes, I was convinced the guy was an idiot and didn't have the brainpower to make it as an NFL QB. How is it teams that talked to him prior to the draft didn't come to this same conclusion?
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:confused: From the information that came out afterwards, it sounds as though the folks at Wazzou and elsewhere were relaying problems about him and the Chargers just flat out ignored that information. It's odd because Beathard, of all GM's, had a long history of favoring work ethic and character over pedigree, as evidenced by his track record of trading away high picks and spinning straw into gold from lower picks with lesser known prospects.
 
Ghost Rider said:
Right after he was drafted, I saw Leaf make an appearance on Letterman. After hearing him talk for two minutes, I was convinced the guy was an idiot and didn't have the brainpower to make it as an NFL QB. How is it teams that talked to him prior to the draft didn't come to this same conclusion?
Click to expand...
He was being interviewed on WSCR Chicago right before his Letterman appearance and really came off like an ###. The interview spiraled into Dan McNeil basically telling him his attitude was crap and that he hoped his career ended up being a disaster. I guess McNeil got what he hoped for.
 
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I've missed on plenty of college players. But I was positive Manning would be way better than Leaf. It was all mental. Leaf had much better physicals than Manning. Many do.

But Leaf just looked like a loser. I saw all I needed to see in his final college game. (Rose Bowl?) They lost on a play where he was trying for the TD and it looked as if there could have been a pass interference call. Most QBs would have been going ballistic arguing the call or crushed with the defeat.

Leaf couldn't get his helmet off fast enough and was smiling and high fiving and shaking hands with the other team. Ready for the next thing.

Sort of like Aaron Brooks or Mike Vick does after a loss or interception.

This one was easy.

J

 
Ryan Leaf should make a comeback. He's like 30 now he shoud be mature now. The guy did have talent. I'd pick him up off the street and put him on my practice squad :cry:

 
I actually heard on interview with him on the Dan Patrick show sometime this fall. He sounded very mature. He accepted full blame for his failure in the NFL. Dan Patrick asked him something along the lines of "do you ever wonder what would have happened if you would have been drafted by another team" and his answer was along the lines of "no, it would not have mattered. I had my shot and I didn't have what it took. It is time to move on with my life.".

His answer impressed me. He said he missed football and that is why he went into coaching. He didn't soound arrogant at all. So, it sounds like he finally grew up.

 
Jous said:
Capella said:
pizzatyme said:
Ryan Leaf today...sir, would you like fries with that?
Click to expand...
why do people say this about failed pro athletes? guy made millions and millions of dollars. he could probably buy and sell you 15 times over.
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Yea really... the guy's probably had more success in his life than anyone on this board will ever have.
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Unless these people are trying to say he also blew the fortune he made on draft day. No idea if that is the case, but some athletes do wind up broke.
 
Pro Football Prospectus 2006 had an article in it arguing that the best indicators of NFL success for a highly drafted quarterback are college completion percentage and number of college games started.

Ryan Leaf fared very poorly in both categories, FWIW. And Manning fared very well.

 
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Early in Ryan Leaf's rookie year with the Chargers, Leaf was already very unpopular among the other players.

On one of the first few days of training camp, Leaf had the red jersey on but Junior Seau decked him anyway. Bobby Beathard was upset at Seau and verbally chastized him for it.

In a recent interview, Beathard said he regretted yelling at Seau for it. He wished Seau had hit him harder.

 
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:confused: I will also admitt to being one of the guys who had Manning as second fiddle. Even had a FF website touting just that. But now I gets my dope from Bloom and don't need to worry about the :thumbup: no more.

Keep it real Sig!

Kevin

 
Capella said:
pizzatyme said:
Ryan Leaf today...sir, would you like fries with that?
Click to expand...
why do people say this about failed pro athletes? guy made millions and millions of dollars. he could probably buy and sell you 15 times over.
Click to expand...
Here's an idea for you. Take the corncob out of your ...And, he probably could for the record. But, I'll take my life over his any day!I have self respect for what I've accomplished. He signed a big contract and embarrassed himself nationally.
 
pizzatyme said:
Capella said:
pizzatyme said:
Ryan Leaf today...sir, would you like fries with that?
Click to expand...
why do people say this about failed pro athletes? guy made millions and millions of dollars. he could probably buy and sell you 15 times over.
Click to expand...
Here's an idea for you. Take the corncob out of your ...And, he probably could for the record. But, I'll take my life over his any day!I have self respect for what I've accomplished. He signed a big contract and embarrassed himself nationally.
Click to expand...
I think that's a bit harsh. I don't think Ryan Leaf is a bad person. He was a top player in college, which is a very high level of play, just not the highest. There should be plenty of respect for that. Further, he didn't paid for those services until he got a pro deal. Alright, he wasn't cut out to be an NFL QB. He made some personal mistakes. But even he will confess his role in the mess it was.I see a guy that is flawed but obviously is trying to improve himself. And he might not succeed ultimately but who knows.I can be tolerant with a Ryan Leaf. He a lot better person than, say, the Rooneys, Cowher or the NFL itself who can't admit how screwed up Super Bowl XL was to this day. At least Leaf can own up to any faults.
 
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Ghost Rider said:
Right after he was drafted, I saw Leaf make an appearance on Letterman. After hearing him talk for two minutes, I was convinced the guy was an idiot and didn't have the brainpower to make it as an NFL QB. How is it teams that talked to him prior to the draft didn't come to this same conclusion?
Click to expand...
Probably because in truth there are a lot of people that are awful at presenting themselves in one way or another but are also incredibly good at their job.Look at Bill Belichick. He doesn't look nor present himself like the common head coach stereotype. But his results are undeniable.If you just go by appearance, you're really missing out.
 
Despyzer said:
billyjoe said:
Not hard if you saw Leaf play in college.
Click to expand...
Or even his first two pro games. Leaf had two good wins for a team that had sucked the previous year.Then he got the flu and went into Kansas City in the middle of a typhoon, had a terrible game, and his confidence seemed to be crushed.Maybe I'm oversimplifying it, but we know there is a significant mental aspect to sports. Look at Rick Ankiel. The guy was the top young arm in the majors, and then in one playoff game against the Braves he stopped throwing strikes. Within two years he was out of the bigs and never made it back.It's hard to say. The guy was a serious head-case WAY before that game. His name is still spoken with venom in his hometown of Great Falls, Montana - even though he led his high school team to two state titles. But maybe his slight grasp on a capacity for self-control was a warning sign that he wouldn't handle the adversity of a bad game in a bad situation very well.
Click to expand...
:lmao: It is hard for most of us to understand how a player could be so psyched out, but obviously it happens sometimes.The deal coming out was that Leaf had the better physical makeup and Manning had the better mental makeup. Maybe something should be learned from that?
 
GordonGekko said:
Ryan Leaf, at least in his NFL days, appeared to be an idiot. I remember some scouting report leaked and someone said Ryan Leaf was the kind of guy who would "sit on the TV and watch the couch" But he's not Rae Carruth. And he's not Darrell Russell. And he's definitely not Ricky Watters or Marty Morningweig. (I've met Ricky and Marty face to face before and these are the kind of guys that a nun would stab to death with an icepick and not feel bad about it) I think the problem was that Leaf should have never been a QB. He could have probably been a good LB. I felt the same about Akili Smith. Not such a great QB, but such a great athlete that he could have excelled at another position. Is there any doubt that Mike Vick could probably be a HOF running back if he came out of college as a running back? It wasn't so long ago that taller skill players were automatically made into WRs at the lower levels. That's why in the Jerry Rice era, there were so many small corners, at least relative to today's time. Now having big corners is the norm. I'm sure plenty of marginal WRs who never made it or squeezed by could have made very good cornerbacks. Sometimes I think players come through who are talented enough to play in the NFL, but maybe not talented enough to play the position they are in coming up.
Click to expand...
I don't mean to hijack, but what was your experience with Marty? Just curious as an Eagles fan...
 
GordonGekko said:
Is there any doubt that Mike Vick could probably be a HOF running back if he came out of college as a running back?
Click to expand...
I can only speak for myself, obviously, but yes.... I would have a LOT of doubt about that.First, Vick is made of glass. Seemingly every time he gets knocked out of bounds, he appears to have some discomfort in his ankle or calf or elbow or, or, or, or. Here is the part where you tell me that he ran for over 1000 yards. Sure he did, and that is quite impressive, but how many of those yards came between the tackles? Very few is the answer.

Running backs take a far greater beating than does a running QB. When you have to line up in the backfield, and run into the teeth of four 300-pounders when they are expecting it, that job is not for everyone. Maybe he could be used much like Reggie Bush and put food on his table primarily on the edges, but Vick showed me all I needed to see about his toughness in week 15 of '05 @ Chicago. The Falcons were 8-5 and still very much in playoff contention. It was a Sunday night game in frigid temperatures. The Bears showed up, and Vick didn't. He flat out quit. Just about every series saw the Falcons go a QUICK 3-and-out, followed by Vick setting a world record in the 40 yard dash by running to the sidelines to sit on the heated bench and put on the hooded winter parka.

And I'm supposed to believe that he could make a living getting pounded 25-30 times a game? And be a Hall of Famer, at that? Pass. He would at best be Kevin Jones -- and he might even make KJ look like an ironman.

 
Capella said:
pizzatyme said:
Ryan Leaf today...sir, would you like fries with that?
Click to expand...
why do people say this about failed pro athletes? guy made millions and millions of dollars. he could probably buy and sell you 15 times over.
Click to expand...
I never get that either. Yes he failed in his NFL career. But so did I and everybody else on this board. Life is another thing and from reading this post it sounds as if life is just great these days for Ryan Leaf.
 
Jedimaster21 said:
I don't mean to hijack, but what was your experience with Marty? Just curious as an Eagles fan...
Click to expand...
I'm curious about that as well. I met him in a bar in Missoula, MT when he played with the Grizzlies and he was just one of the boys.
 
BGP said:
pizzatyme said:
Capella said:
pizzatyme said:
Ryan Leaf today...sir, would you like fries with that?
Click to expand...
why do people say this about failed pro athletes? guy made millions and millions of dollars. he could probably buy and sell you 15 times over.
Click to expand...
Here's an idea for you. Take the corncob out of your ...And, he probably could for the record. But, I'll take my life over his any day!I have self respect for what I've accomplished. He signed a big contract and embarrassed himself nationally.
Click to expand...
I think that's a bit harsh. I don't think Ryan Leaf is a bad person. He was a top player in college, which is a very high level of play, just not the highest. There should be plenty of respect for that. Further, he didn't paid for those services until he got a pro deal. Alright, he wasn't cut out to be an NFL QB. He made some personal mistakes. But even he will confess his role in the mess it was.I see a guy that is flawed but obviously is trying to improve himself. And he might not succeed ultimately but who knows.I can be tolerant with a Ryan Leaf. He a lot better person than, say, the Rooneys, Cowher or the NFL itself who can't admit how screwed up Super Bowl XL was to this day. At least Leaf can own up to any faults.
Click to expand...
Agreed. I think FBG's with their perfect girlfriends and super elite upper tier careers and Mr. Olympia physiques have a tendency to overrate how they would do as 21-year old top-2 overall draft picks being given millions of dollars and put in front of the camera on a daily basis as the objects of adoration/hope/pressure/etc. from a city's football fanbase. What a shocker - a 21-year old (mind you, one who was certainly overrated) couldn't handle that pressure and melted down. The only surprising thing is that it doesn't happen more often.
 
Joe Bryant said:
I've missed on plenty of college players. But I was positive Manning would be way better than Leaf. It was all mental. Leaf had much better physicals than Manning. Many do.

But Leaf just looked like a loser. I saw all I needed to see in his final college game. (Rose Bowl?) They lost on a play where he was trying for the TD and it looked as if there could have been a pass interference call. Most QBs would have been going ballistic arguing the call or crushed with the defeat.

Leaf couldn't get his helmet off fast enough and was smiling and high fiving and shaking hands with the other team. Ready for the next thing.

Sort of like Aaron Brooks or Mike Vick does after a loss or interception.

This one was easy.

J
Click to expand...
Sorry, but this example doesn't hold water. Mike Vick has been somewhat disappointing, but he is 26 and has not been a bust. Same for Aaron Brooks, who was a starter for 5 years in the NFL.I don't disagree that Manning had better mental makeup than Leaf, or that you personally rated Manning higher. I just think that if you made that assessment based on the example given, it was flawed... and it would make me question your judgment on other players coming out of college. I suspect that your assessment was based on much more than the simple example you cited here.

The real issue here is not whether Manning or Leaf should have gone first... it's that Leaf shouldn't have gone in the first round or even on the first day. The fact that he did indicates that the Chargers, and presumably most teams other than possibly the Colts, completely missed the mark in their assessment of his non-physical attributes and capabilities.

 
Just Win Baby said:
Joe Bryant said:
I've missed on plenty of college players. But I was positive Manning would be way better than Leaf. It was all mental. Leaf had much better physicals than Manning. Many do.

But Leaf just looked like a loser. I saw all I needed to see in his final college game. (Rose Bowl?) They lost on a play where he was trying for the TD and it looked as if there could have been a pass interference call. Most QBs would have been going ballistic arguing the call or crushed with the defeat.

Leaf couldn't get his helmet off fast enough and was smiling and high fiving and shaking hands with the other team. Ready for the next thing.

Sort of like Aaron Brooks or Mike Vick does after a loss or interception.

This one was easy.

J
Click to expand...
Sorry, but this example doesn't hold water. Mike Vick has been somewhat disappointing, but he is 26 and has not been a bust. Same for Aaron Brooks, who was a starter for 5 years in the NFL.I don't disagree that Manning had better mental makeup than Leaf, or that you personally rated Manning higher. I just think that if you made that assessment based on the example given, it was flawed... and it would make me question your judgment on other players coming out of college. I suspect that your assessment was based on much more than the simple example you cited here.

The real issue here is not whether Manning or Leaf should have gone first... it's that Leaf shouldn't have gone in the first round or even on the first day. The fact that he did indicates that the Chargers, and presumably most teams other than possibly the Colts, completely missed the mark in their assessment of his non-physical attributes and capabilities.
Click to expand...
Sorry if that doesn't work for you. That lack of killer drive to win is big for me. I see it all over Brooks. Not as much for Vick but other things in him shows up. Like when he was hurt a couple of years ago. He stood on the sidelines and didn't even have his radio mic on to hear what was going on. Other QBs are hurt and they're like the assitant QB coach on the sidelines super into the game and managing it. That's cool if you think he shouldn't have gone on the first day. You'll be in a VERY small group of people if you were really saying that back then. Most felt Manning would be better. Some by a good bit. But I don't think many predicted Leaf to be a total flameout like he was. :confused:

J

 
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Just Win Baby said:
The fact that he did indicates that the Chargers, and presumably most teams other than possibly the Colts, completely missed the mark in their assessment of his non-physical attributes and capabilities.
Click to expand...
I think the Colts missed the mark by quite a bit as well. They seemed to have Leaf rated as the number two player overall in the draft, and may have gone back and forth a bit on Manning vs. Leaf in the days leading up to the draft.
 
Maurile Tremblay said:
Just Win Baby said:
The fact that he did indicates that the Chargers, and presumably most teams other than possibly the Colts, completely missed the mark in their assessment of his non-physical attributes and capabilities.
Click to expand...
I think the Colts missed the mark by quite a bit as well. They seemed to have Leaf rated as the number two player overall in the draft, and may have gone back and forth a bit on Manning vs. Leaf in the days leading up to the draft.
Click to expand...
I sort of remember a story that he Colts dropped Leaf after he was a no show or indifferent in a meeting the Colts had scheduled. Although as the team with he #1 pick easier to do then for a #2 pick to pass on him and go to another position.I wish my recollection was better but that was several years ago.ETA: Here is the abstract from the NYT archive on this meeting.Ryan Leaf tells Indianapolis Colts that he was having tests on his shoulder when he failed to meet with team during recent National Football League scouting combine
 
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One reason that many preferred Leaf to Manning, IMO, was simply due to the Manning family heritage. Many liked Peyton because of his father, his quality character, etc, but many disliked him for the same reasons, as they still do.

 
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