djcolts
Footballguy
WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. WRONG.http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/preview09/ne...tory?id=4424374
This is the 2009 NFL predictions by 16 ESPN NFL "experts." 0 out of 16 picked Manning to win the MVP.
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Peyton Manning wins 4th MVP award (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Norseman
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This is the 2009 NFL predictions by 16 ESPN NFL "experts." 0 out of 16 picked Manning to win the MVP.
The Maxwell award, like the AP, has been given out this award for over 50 years and neither is officially recognized by the NFL.
Painter wasn't playing with the 1st string and had zero experience.Give him some time and the 1st string and I'm sure even he could eke out 8 wins
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
menobrown said:
In other words, almost everyone considers the AP as the official MVP award. Latching on to some award that most people have never heard of is weak and funny, hence theDavid Yudkin said:
's in my previous post.Also, I just looked it up, and apparently the Maxwell award goes to the college football player of the year. 
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boubucarow
Footballguy
Another vote for Manning here. Brews, Rivers, and Johnson are all defensible choices as well. Manning has the most control over the offense he plays in than any other QB. He had no viable running game all year and he repeatedly had to rally his team to victory through the air. He does more for his team than any player in the league and he did it at a high level this year.
It's not official. Period. I've been familiar with the Maxwell award for almost 30 years. I'm not latching onto anything. Google NFL MVP award winners and one of the first site's that pop up list award winners other than the non-officially recognized AP award. Is that site latching onto the Maxwell award? No, it's because there is no official MVP award. It does not exist.menobrown said:In other words, almost everyone considers the AP as the official MVP award. Latching on to some award that most people have never heard of is weak and funny, hence theDavid Yudkin said:
DesmondBishop
Footballguy
No question there are arguments for several players that could have easily won the award, but by no means can anyone prove he did not deserve it. He is a great QB and during the regular season, he may be the best of all time, hard to argue with the numbers.
When CJ hit 2K and broke the single season yards from scrimmage mark, I thought he would be a top finisher, but the QB is the MOST important position on a team and it is with good reason the BULK of MVP trophies should and will always go to QB's.
When CJ hit 2K and broke the single season yards from scrimmage mark, I thought he would be a top finisher, but the QB is the MOST important position on a team and it is with good reason the BULK of MVP trophies should and will always go to QB's.
bills025
Footballguy
Ok. But this isn't just about stats. This about being the Most Valuable Player. His clock management and game playing has been unreal. Brees played really well this year also, but he got spanked by Dallas, at home. The perception is that the Colts probably would have gone undefeated if they would have actually played for it. (As a Bills fan I think that we would've pulled off that last win at home in the snow.) So for Passing success this year I think Manning played better. Also his opponents were better IMO. The entire AFC South had a chance at the playoffs in the last couple of weeks. Had to bold to post. Sorrycraxie said:
and all of them vote for the AP MVP? Do we really need to review what espn "experts" think anyway? I would have voted for rivers, I think there is an institutional bias towards manning. Next year, a lot like last year, if no one has a complete lights out season, Manning will win by default even if a lesser name has better numbers and takes a perennial also-ran to the playoffs.djcolts said:
And yet he produces less than the other QBs. Hmmmmmmm
His running game is significantly better than the Chargers
If he was so great, he shouldn't have gotten behind in the first place
Brees and Rivers easily did more for their teams and Favre too probably
Sure I can, he didn't lead in ANY major statistical categoriesIn fact, he was usually 4th or 5th
all time, yesthis year, no
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gonzobill5
Footballguy
I'd argue thatMario Kart said:
Man In The Box
Footballguy
Maybe so. Difference is that they lost 2 games WITH Brees under center. Manning didn't lose any. And as far as not leading the league in any statistical categories? Save it. He would have led in TD's and passing yards if they didn't sit him the last game and a half.
Saints-Man
Footballguy
While by my user name I obviously love Brees, congratulations to Payton Manning. He was the most deserving this year.
I also think that Rivers should have received more votes, and that he and Brees are 2/3 in whatever order.
I also think that Rivers should have received more votes, and that he and Brees are 2/3 in whatever order.
He sure as hell didn't WIN the last twoAnyways, so now the argument for Manning is that the Colts are a better TEAMfunny how the goal posts keep shiftingManning apologists can offer SQUAT to show that he was the best QB this year
This isn't the theoretical MVP about what he would have done, this is about what he actually did
The dominant player on the dominant team in the NFL won an MVP. Anyone seeing any controversy here is an idiot.
And yeah, the 'greatest qb in nfl history' is relevant, the same way that you don't take Jordan's award and give it to Allen Iverson because the kid can fill the stat columns.
I'd LOVE to see Manning's stats if he ever had a season of "pedal to the metal, all-out blitzkrieg" like the Pats tried in '07. The Colts sit on the ball waaaay too much, IMO. Yeah, it may protect the D, and yeah, they have the ultimate trump card in Manning to pull out close games, but jeez, there's a LOT to be said for blowing teams out 42-0 to start games, which I'm pretty sure they could do if they just told Manning to throw bombs on every down.
And yeah, the 'greatest qb in nfl history' is relevant, the same way that you don't take Jordan's award and give it to Allen Iverson because the kid can fill the stat columns.
I'd LOVE to see Manning's stats if he ever had a season of "pedal to the metal, all-out blitzkrieg" like the Pats tried in '07. The Colts sit on the ball waaaay too much, IMO. Yeah, it may protect the D, and yeah, they have the ultimate trump card in Manning to pull out close games, but jeez, there's a LOT to be said for blowing teams out 42-0 to start games, which I'm pretty sure they could do if they just told Manning to throw bombs on every down.
Man In The Box
Footballguy
Craxie, are you a Brees guy? Instead of slamming Manning for winning, make a concrete case for Brees, or whoever you think should have won.
Brees had this thing, IMO. It was his to lose. And he lost it. You can't get spanked in your own building on national TV and then lose the very next week at home to Tampa Bay all while fighting for the 1 seed and expect to win an MVP. Especially when a previous 3- time winner is having another great season. If you are going to say that having a 100 passer rating, 4500 yds and 33 TDs/ 11 INTs (in 14 games essentially, all wins) isn't a great season (which you are basically saying) then I'm not going to waste anymore of my own time and assume you are fishing.
Brees had this thing, IMO. It was his to lose. And he lost it. You can't get spanked in your own building on national TV and then lose the very next week at home to Tampa Bay all while fighting for the 1 seed and expect to win an MVP. Especially when a previous 3- time winner is having another great season. If you are going to say that having a 100 passer rating, 4500 yds and 33 TDs/ 11 INTs (in 14 games essentially, all wins) isn't a great season (which you are basically saying) then I'm not going to waste anymore of my own time and assume you are fishing.
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So, what other Qb went 14-2? Posted 94+ qb rating in 11+ games, threw for 300 yards a game and 33 td's?
this is foolish.
the 14-2 is the only thing that keeps out other players from your criteria. I am not anti-Payton winning the award but really he wasn't significantly better then what 4 other players at his position.
yes, there is no rule that the MVP has to come from the team with the best record, especially when said player is clearly not the best at his positionand dominant team? they've lost 2 straight
ok, ok, they weren't trying to win, fine
however, even when they were playing to win, they have hardly been dominant
Manning apologists love to point to all his come-from-behind victories this year
Guess what? Dominant teams don't have to come from behind
They have had an inordinate amount of luck squeaking out their record, hardly the picture of domination
again, this isn't a theoretical MVP
Obviously you've never watched Norv
Does anyone EVER bother to actually check the Gospel of ManningOr is the greatness of the Chosen One so thoroughly drilled into people's brains that any assault on his Inerrancy is blasphemy?
Let us actually examine how The Infallible One does compared to other QBs on 'bombs'
Passes thrown 31-40 yards (passer rating)
Brees: 140.0
Rivers: 104.6
Favre: 97.9
Manning: 60.8
Passes thrown 41+ yards (passer rating)
Favre: 141.4
Rivers: 64.6
Brees: 63.7
Manning: 39.6
DEAD LAST
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Man In The Box
Footballguy
QB rating on "BOMBS"? Really?
It's official.
It's official.
sho nuff
Footballguy
I don't need much reasoning...his stats, record...and the FACT that he won speaks for itself.You only say it was a joke...without any indication of why it was a joke or who should have won.My agreement with him being MVP was sufficient.Why do you think it was a joke?Mario Kart said:
I'm ABM, Anybody But ManningI can easily make a case for Brees, Favre, or Rivers
The case is simple, they all have better stats in worse situations
again coasting on reputation
That would have been a great season. Unfortunately for Manning, he didn't have it (he had 16 INTs, which is 7th most in the league)As good as Manning's actual stats were, at least 3 were better than his.
Just responding to Homer's argumentBy itself it means nothingQB rating on "BOMBS"? Really?
It's official.
Except as another example of how Manning apologists have NOTHING
His stats show he was maybe the 5th best QB this year
shows that he has a good TEAM
his TEAM won
With Painter? Maybe not (I have them at 8 wins)With Carson Palmer? Absolutely
Sorry, you completely underestimate the quality of the Colts team
If he's so special, why doesn't his passing stats reflect it?Ah, that's right, I forgot, he's so special, he TRANSCENDS stats
How many 4500 yards 33 td 14-2 seasons have there been in the history of the NFL?2?
You don't throw for 14-2Also I thought people on these boards had something against compilers?
He threw a LOT, but he wasn't particularly efficient at his throws
BUT, just looking at the cumulative numbers, please tell me which one you would want for your team
4202/33/7
4388/34/11
4500/33/16
I'll take the 298 fewer yards with 9 fewer INTs, thank you very much
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Baron Samedi
Footballguy
This has got to be one of the dumbest things I've read in this thread. Please man, your hate for the dude just reached level uber.craxie said:
Through 14 3/4 games the guy was perfect?Hmmm, bears repeating
E R F E C THard to consider anything else in context?He was not perfect. Far from it. He threw a ton of interceptions and constantly got bailed out by his defense, his opponent's dumb coaching decisions and blind luck.His team had a perfect record, yes, but that was his TEAMThrough 14 3/4 games the guy was perfect?Hmmm, bears repeating
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How can you deny it's a passer paradise? Dome, elite line, elite receivers, what more could a passer want?
sho nuff
Footballguy
Stats...all you want is stats?Wow...we get it, you don't like Manning.its one thing if you are just pushing for Rivers...that is understandable.The Fact that he won meant the MVP...not just games.Yes...his team won...something of which he was a huge huge part of...despite your denial.
Saints-Man
Footballguy
I don't know if Brees was ever in the lead, but the loss to the Cowboys and the absolutely unexcusable loss to the Bucs when the #1 seed was on the line is certainly enough to fall him back to allow Manning(and maybe Rivers) move ahead of him.I am not bad-mouthing Brees, and I am very glad he is the QB of the Saints. However, I can't justify how is more deserving than Manning.
The MVP award will go to Peyton unless someone beats him. MVP is largely on reputation not stats. That said, Manning deserved this one.craxie said:Absolutely the least deserving of any of the major candidatesBrees, Favre, and Rivers all had better cases His reputation has become so overblown that people will continue to vote for him regardless of his actual performance on the field unless he just completely blows itThis is quickly becoming some sort of career/reputation award and not a recognition of what actually happened THIS season
How many times when the game was on the line did Manning come through with a huge drive to win the game or seal it. Every time. Manning was the definition of clutch this year.
