Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
Pinewood Derby (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter shuke
- Start date
gameday
Footballguy
Way go to the Disco Stu family. Nice job. The paint job looks great. I noticed you had marks on the axle heads so I assume you guys spent time checking/tweeking alignment. Nice. That's great the 'lil Stu put a note on his car warning everyone to not 'help' him by putting on more graphite. The stuff definitely needs to be broken in and then not messed with.
Disco Stu
Confirmed FBGal
Thanks. We were really happy about how the paint turned out. It added ~0.3 ounces though.And yes on the alignment tweaks. We set up a little ramp at home. This is just the first frame of a video, but you get the idea. Downhill for about three feet, then leveled off for another two.
The front left wheel was raised, and we wanted to try riding the rail this year. At the end of the 5+ foot ramp, we had a target three inches left of center. After some trial and error, we were hitting it consistently.
We ended up just having to remove the right wheel several times to try different "compass points" on the axle head.
We also tried to check for the wheels moving in and out on the axles but didn't see anything noticeable.
Rustoleum
Footballguy
My son's race is coming up. He finally gave me a design to cut for him, so I will have to get that done so I can turn him loose with the Dremel and sandpaper.
They just e-mailed me the "district" rules. No wheel modifications save to remove any mold marks on the tread, original axles, and all four wheels must touch ground- they will be using a credit card to check.
Also no liquids, amongst other prohibited things. We were actually going to use a couple bubble-level inserts to make his car look like a carpenter's level, but the liquid thing kind of nixes that.
Guess there was a lot of backlash from all the crazy wheel mods that were out there last year.
They just e-mailed me the "district" rules. No wheel modifications save to remove any mold marks on the tread, original axles, and all four wheels must touch ground- they will be using a credit card to check.
Also no liquids, amongst other prohibited things. We were actually going to use a couple bubble-level inserts to make his car look like a carpenter's level, but the liquid thing kind of nixes that.
Guess there was a lot of backlash from all the crazy wheel mods that were out there last year.
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
Friggin' AWESOME Stu!! Congrats to you and your son!At the weigh-in Friday, I happened to see one car from a new scout that looked really good. My assumption was proven correct in the first set of races Saturday, as it smoked the rest of the Tigers. At that point we figured we were playing for second overall (at best).But then my son's first heat happened. His car flew down the track, winning all four heats by at least a car length each. That made us feel like we could give the Tiger a run for his money.Woo hoo! Did he win a trophy?On a side note, I've had almost a dozen kids use my shop to build their cars so far this year. Two of them have had their race; one took 2nd overall and the other placed 3rd in his Den level. Both of them move on to Districts.This car was fast.
After all the dens were done, the boys voted on the cars... "Most Creative", "Silliest", and "Best in Show". To our surprise, his got Best in Show. I'm pretty sure the fact they just saw it dominate four races swayed some voters.
Then came the finals. All 15 trophy winners advanced, which was a third of all entries. Last year only the 5 first place winners advanced. This was probably more fair, since you could potentially have two or three of the best cars in one den. But watering down the field did have the undesirable effect of limiting the "marquee" matchups.
My son's first heat may have included the Tiger threat, but we weren't sure... eventually deciding the relatively easy win meant he wasn't one of the other three. We started paying attention after that, as heat after heat featured one of the two running away from the pack. Only in the final heat did a car come within a car length of ours.
At that point the only question was "1st or 2nd". Then it was announced the combined times had us in first by 4 hundredths of a second.
Since they apparently didn't go head-to-head, the top two cars were then run in two exhibition races. We edged him both times, thereby removing any doubt.
His haul.
I also brought three old cars to use in testing out the track after we got them setup. So during the open races after the real races were complete, we put them up against his new car. These were his past two cars, plus one from when I was a kid. All were trophy winners. I even added graphite to them the night before. But they got their doors blown off. :shocked: Really illustrated the improvements we made.
Thanks for the help here guys. Also, I strongly recommend Max-V-Lube graphite. Much better than the standard graphite we used in the past. Side note: we were the only ones not applying additional graphite right before the first race. My son even put a sticky note next to his car to make sure no one "helped" by adding some like they did last year.I'm guessing others may follow our lead next year.
Disco Stu
Confirmed FBGal
St. Louis Bob
Footballguy
Thanks GB.Not messing with you at all. I think it looks great. Hope your son finished well.
I don't if you guys are busting my balls but thanks. We nailed the 141 grams too.
after I glued another quarter on it/Oh and got the following e-mail today:
We are supposed to get freezing raing until midnight.
Results? Was the derby this weekend?
I still haven't heard how Catfish Cal did.Meh, notsogood. We finished 5th every race. Congrats on your win. You sir, are a madman. Also, according to the rules, we weren't supposed to mess with the groves for the wheels and I had to hammer them in. Now that I know what to expect, I hope we do better next year.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
We got an updated set of rules (our races are this weekend) and, for the first time, it said that all four wheels have to touch the track.
While it was OK for me as we were putting on the wheels that night, I know a bunch of people are upset because they already built their cars using a 3-wheel strategy.
It would've been one thing if they had that in the rules from Day One, but this is a new edition after months of prep and prior rules.
Crazy stuff.
While it was OK for me as we were putting on the wheels that night, I know a bunch of people are upset because they already built their cars using a 3-wheel strategy.
It would've been one thing if they had that in the rules from Day One, but this is a new edition after months of prep and prior rules.
Crazy stuff.
Disco Stu
Confirmed FBGal
I wouldn't consider slightly making the grooves big enough to comfortably fit the nail "messing with them".
Without knowing the exact wording, I'd assume the intent is that they want everyone to use the existing axle slots... ie no extended wheelbases.If nothing else, I would tap in a nail (preferably not one that you'll be using) without the wheel just to prepare it for the real thing. Then gently pull it out. The slot is still virgin, you were just "soaking".
Disco Stu
Confirmed FBGal
That sucks.I just got the rules for the District race and am now concerned about a similar rule.
There's definitely some grey area there. I'm not sure what they consider "obvious".
Jason Wood
Zoo York
Our derby commish said they will use a credit card to measure. So if it's more than a credit card away from the ground, it could get whacked.That sucks.I just got the rules for the District race and am now concerned about a similar rule.There's definitely some grey area there. I'm not sure what they consider "obvious".
Fat Tony
Footballguy
I just want to thank everyone who has posted in here, there is a wealth of good tips and knowledge on building and tuning the cars. I missed this thread last year when my daughter and I built her first powderpuff derby car (the girls scout equivalent to the pinewood derby) last year and we were running up the rear last year. While she had fun, she was naturally bummed that she did not do better.
While this year was a completely different story, after reading through this thread I learned the tricks of the trade. We were able to put up a car that was at least a .1 of a second faster than most of the other cars in her grouping. To quote her “We smoked them”. It was a nice “Dad moment” when the family sitting behind us is even commenting on how much faster her car is compared to the other cars
, and their daughter came in second. The best part of the derby was when they were putting up the results. Based on her times, compared to the other cars, I knew she had at least a top 2-3 finishing car. The look on her face was priceless when they put up the 3rd place and 2nd place names. She looks over to my wife and says “Did I win?” Then when her name was called out for first place her eyes lit up and she was grinning from ear to ear. She was so proud of her car she even took it into Dairy Queen when we went to celebrate her win.
It makes one feel proud when everyone was asking how much work she did on the car and I could tell them she did everything except cut it out (she is only 6), put on the wheels, and some of the sanding on the body. You could tell that there was minimal Dad work compared to some of the other cars. I think she had the most fun polishing the axles. For some reason she really enjoyed holding the strip of sandpaper as the axle spun around in the drill.
Fat Tony’s tips
1) Obviously, weight is the key. I had most of the weight behind the rear axle and just in front of the rear axle to get as close to the 5oz as possible.
2) Remove the little burr on the nail (axle) and polish them with a series of fine grit sandpaper. I used a file to remove the burr, being careful not to file into the shaft . Then I used progressively finer grit sandpaper, 600gr to 1000gr to 3000gr to get a nice polish on the axles.
3) Graphite the wheels and spin them a few times to work in the graphite. Not sure if this helped but I had to pull all four tires off and do a tire rotation as I could not straighten it out. Since they were off the car I added more graphite before I put them back on. Maybe I got a better coating of graphite worked in
4) My tire rotation worked wonderful. Before, it was pulling severely left after about 3 feet across my floor. After, it hit the table leg I was aiming for 10 feet away.
5) My daughters trick was to paint it hot pink with purple polka dots and stars, she said that will make it fast. That might be a tough sell to a cub/boy scout though.
While this year was a completely different story, after reading through this thread I learned the tricks of the trade. We were able to put up a car that was at least a .1 of a second faster than most of the other cars in her grouping. To quote her “We smoked them”. It was a nice “Dad moment” when the family sitting behind us is even commenting on how much faster her car is compared to the other cars
, and their daughter came in second. The best part of the derby was when they were putting up the results. Based on her times, compared to the other cars, I knew she had at least a top 2-3 finishing car. The look on her face was priceless when they put up the 3rd place and 2nd place names. She looks over to my wife and says “Did I win?” Then when her name was called out for first place her eyes lit up and she was grinning from ear to ear. She was so proud of her car she even took it into Dairy Queen when we went to celebrate her win.It makes one feel proud when everyone was asking how much work she did on the car and I could tell them she did everything except cut it out (she is only 6), put on the wheels, and some of the sanding on the body. You could tell that there was minimal Dad work compared to some of the other cars. I think she had the most fun polishing the axles. For some reason she really enjoyed holding the strip of sandpaper as the axle spun around in the drill.
Fat Tony’s tips
1) Obviously, weight is the key. I had most of the weight behind the rear axle and just in front of the rear axle to get as close to the 5oz as possible.
2) Remove the little burr on the nail (axle) and polish them with a series of fine grit sandpaper. I used a file to remove the burr, being careful not to file into the shaft . Then I used progressively finer grit sandpaper, 600gr to 1000gr to 3000gr to get a nice polish on the axles.
3) Graphite the wheels and spin them a few times to work in the graphite. Not sure if this helped but I had to pull all four tires off and do a tire rotation as I could not straighten it out. Since they were off the car I added more graphite before I put them back on. Maybe I got a better coating of graphite worked in
4) My tire rotation worked wonderful. Before, it was pulling severely left after about 3 feet across my floor. After, it hit the table leg I was aiming for 10 feet away.
5) My daughters trick was to paint it hot pink with purple polka dots and stars, she said that will make it fast. That might be a tough sell to a cub/boy scout though.
ForteWillLeadTheWay
Footballguy
Jeebus! You have Carrol Shelby whip that up for you?
gameday
Footballguy
That's a beaut! Quick question, though. Will the track have electronic timing or are they doing it visually. If it's electronic, the photocell is generally mounted right in the center of the track. Since the front of your car has a cutout, it's quite likely it will pass the photocell by an inch or so before it registers. Just something to keep in mind for next year. Good luck.
Rustoleum
Footballguy
Much like a woman's Facebook profile pic, the photo is taken at an angle to hide its flaws. The kid drew a pretty nice design and I almost cut it symmetrically. He sanded until he got bored so there are some lumps, but overall we're pretty happy with it. It was sheer luck that the weights we bought at Michaels made it look like a canopy on the back.
Rustoleum
Footballguy
It will be electronic and I didn't think of that. We are gunning for third place though ( see earlier in the thread) so all for the better.Maybe we can stick a thin strip of wood or something across the front to catch the sensors. I'll check with my son and see what he wants to do. I can only imagine the drama if he visibly beats another car but ends up with a worse time in a heat.
Thanks for the tip!
gameday
Footballguy
That's the ticket. My son had to do that 2 years ago and it worked well. He actually used a very thin piece of plastic that he glued to the underside of the car.
Disco Stu
Confirmed FBGal
So we finally got details on the district races.9:00-4:00 on a Saturday.9:00 to ####ing 4:00.
Ours is 8:00-4:00.
Rustoleum
Footballguy
We hit the jackpot and managed to score a trophy and avoid qualifying for district. Since they lump the Webelos I's and II's together and both dens were of decent size, there were two other cars that were clearly faster. It probably didn't help that the lady that did the car checkins brought in a scale that went to hundredths of a gram instead of the tenths that everyone had been using before. Pretty sure using the dremel to take 0.05 grams off the bottom resulted in some sawdust in the wheels. This was like having the Russian judge for figureskating. People were hacking away at cars left and right to get them to qualify. She tried to tell us our car was too long, even though we hadn't added anything to the original block. I was going to hit it with the dremel too, but the Cubmaster intervened and said it was close enough and didn't want him to ruin his paintjob, but we would want to probably shave it a little if we went to districts. I assured him it wouldn't be a problem.Anyway, we had a good time.Congrats to all the FBG Pinewood racers!So we finally got details on the district races.9:00-4:00 on a Saturday.9:00 to ####ing 4:00.
gameday
Footballguy
Very nice. Congrats to little 'oleum. I agree that grinding off a bit of weight probably resulted in getting some grit on the axles/wheels. It's almost unavoidable. Out of curiosity, what was the exact limit in grams that Olga was enforcing? The equivalent of 5 ounces is 141.745 grams. I generally see 142 grams as the enforced limit.We hit the jackpot and managed to score a trophy and avoid qualifying for district. Since they lump the Webelos I's and II's together and both dens were of decent size, there were two other cars that were clearly faster. It probably didn't help that the lady that did the car checkins brought in a scale that went to hundredths of a gram instead of the tenths that everyone had been using before. Pretty sure using the dremel to take 0.05 grams off the bottom resulted in some sawdust in the wheels. This was like having the Russian judge for figureskating. People were hacking away at cars left and right to get them to qualify. She tried to tell us our car was too long, even though we hadn't added anything to the original block. I was going to hit it with the dremel too, but the Cubmaster intervened and said it was close enough and didn't want him to ruin his paintjob, but we would want to probably shave it a little if we went to districts. I assured him it wouldn't be a problem.Anyway, we had a good time.Congrats to all the FBG Pinewood racers!So we finally got details on the district races.9:00-4:00 on a Saturday.9:00 to ####ing 4:00.
Rustoleum
Footballguy
My bad, my mind went all metric for a minute. Most of us had used scales that went to tenths of an oz., hers went down to hundredths, but in increments of 0.05. So, 5.0 ounces on the postage scale I used came up as 5.05 on the one they brought in to be the "official" scale.Very nice. Congrats to little 'oleum. I agree that grinding off a bit of weight probably resulted in getting some grit on the axles/wheels. It's almost unavoidable. Out of curiosity, what was the exact limit in grams that Olga was enforcing? The equivalent of 5 ounces is 141.745 grams. I generally see 142 grams as the enforced limit.We hit the jackpot and managed to score a trophy and avoid qualifying for district. Since they lump the Webelos I's and II's together and both dens were of decent size, there were two other cars that were clearly faster. It probably didn't help that the lady that did the car checkins brought in a scale that went to hundredths of a gram instead of the tenths that everyone had been using before. Pretty sure using the dremel to take 0.05 grams off the bottom resulted in some sawdust in the wheels. This was like having the Russian judge for figureskating. People were hacking away at cars left and right to get them to qualify. She tried to tell us our car was too long, even though we hadn't added anything to the original block. I was going to hit it with the dremel too, but the Cubmaster intervened and said it was close enough and didn't want him to ruin his paintjob, but we would want to probably shave it a little if we went to districts. I assured him it wouldn't be a problem.Anyway, we had a good time.Congrats to all the FBG Pinewood racers!So we finally got details on the district races.9:00-4:00 on a Saturday.9:00 to ####ing 4:00.
Disco Stu
Confirmed FBGal
I need to check on this soon. District is this Saturday. I'm guessing it would fail the credit card measurement.Our derby commish said they will use a credit card to measure. So if it's more than a credit card away from the ground, it could get whacked.That sucks.I just got the rules for the District race and am now concerned about a similar rule.There's definitely some grey area there. I'm not sure what they consider "obvious".
shuke
Black Ice Skeptic
Never gave an update on the districts. It was ####ing brutal. I don't think they had started a race until about 3 hours in. Then of course, technical difficulties were abundant. I thought the way they had the cars set up for voting was done horribly. I knew my son's car didn't have a chance in the races but was hoping he'd win one of the voting awards.
Luckily we were able to leave after about 5 hours because he didn't qualify for the later races. He was pretty bored by that time.
Luckily we were able to leave after about 5 hours because he didn't qualify for the later races. He was pretty bored by that time.
Eviloutsider
Footballguy
God, this thread scares me. I have a kid that might be in boy scouts and would have no idea how to build anything like this. I remember literally doing everything myself growing up, coming in last, and being disappointed losing to all the fathers' cars.
Pick
Footballguy
My kids are past this stage. We did ok. Reading briefly through this thread I am recalling some of the stuff we did but could've done more. But it always seems like someone around me is doing this (especially in Utah).
What is a good summation of tips from this thread? One thing I notice a lot is it seems like you need a test track. Not necessarily an actual track but a way to see how straight your car runs.
What is a good summation of tips from this thread? One thing I notice a lot is it seems like you need a test track. Not necessarily an actual track but a way to see how straight your car runs.
Disco Stu
Confirmed FBGal
Follow some of the tips in this thread, and you'll be fine.
Disco Stu
Confirmed FBGal
Gameday hit most of the key points on page 1 (post #45). There is a picture of our simple "test track" in post 205.
Disco Stu
Confirmed FBGal
Our district races were yesterday and went much better.Their scale went out to the hundredth, so we were not surprisingly a little over (5.05). Looked like almost everyone was having to make adjustments to make weight. Simply removing a little tungsten putty was much easier than the sanding/cutting that others were doing.
Registration from 8-9, first race started by 9:30. Final race at noon.
And who's the big winner? This guy!
shuke
Black Ice Skeptic
Wow, nice!Our district races were yesterday and went much better.Their scale went out to the hundredth, so we were not surprisingly a little over (5.05). Looked like almost everyone was having to make adjustments to make weight. Simply removing a little tungsten putty was much easier than the sanding/cutting that others were doing.
Registration from 8-9, first race started by 9:30. Final race at noon.
And who's the big winner? This guy!
gameday
Footballguy
Gee, how'd I miss this. Big congrats to your boy. That's quite a trophy.This year my son couldn't go to Districts because we were on Spring Break. But the boy that finished 2nd to him at Pack came by my shop before Districts and we fine-tuned/aligned his car. I could tell it was a screamer (I helped him build it a few weeks earlier). After we returned I had an email waiting for me from his dad saying he took 1st place . . . by a long shot. He said not even a single race was close. Five of the past six District winners were built in my shop.Our district races were yesterday and went much better.Their scale went out to the hundredth, so we were not surprisingly a little over (5.05). Looked like almost everyone was having to make adjustments to make weight. Simply removing a little tungsten putty was much easier than the sanding/cutting that others were doing.
Registration from 8-9, first race started by 9:30. Final race at noon.
And who's the big winner? This guy!
sho nuff
Footballguy
Big congrats to young Stu.
We had our pack's derby last week.
My son, for the second year in a row, took first in his "age" (wolves this year and 1 bear). Dominated them.
Was doing well when they got to the races against the rest of the pack and on his run against the eventual winner, I noticed his car started wobbling. The wheels were off pretty bad on that run...we were allowed to adjust...but at this point I think the amount of races and a small crack in the car I did not notice earlier (found it after) had loosened one of the axels a bit. He wobbled to 5th (though, Im still trying to figure out how my son did not get into the 3rd place race as the only 2 cars he lost to were #1 and #2 and he beat the 3rd place car already).
They had a parent's and siblings divisions as well. I ended up taking the parent's division. And at the end they raced the pack winner, sibling winner, and parent winner and I crushed them all. Was interesting as I spent very little time on really doing much with my car as I was helping my son on his and helping him try to make his own faster. Just kind of worked out.
We had our pack's derby last week.
My son, for the second year in a row, took first in his "age" (wolves this year and 1 bear). Dominated them.
Was doing well when they got to the races against the rest of the pack and on his run against the eventual winner, I noticed his car started wobbling. The wheels were off pretty bad on that run...we were allowed to adjust...but at this point I think the amount of races and a small crack in the car I did not notice earlier (found it after) had loosened one of the axels a bit. He wobbled to 5th (though, Im still trying to figure out how my son did not get into the 3rd place race as the only 2 cars he lost to were #1 and #2 and he beat the 3rd place car already).
They had a parent's and siblings divisions as well. I ended up taking the parent's division. And at the end they raced the pack winner, sibling winner, and parent winner and I crushed them all. Was interesting as I spent very little time on really doing much with my car as I was helping my son on his and helping him try to make his own faster. Just kind of worked out.
gameday
Footballguy
Well, it's that time of year again. My son is no longer in Scouting but two guys I work with came by my house with their sons to get advice and build their cars. They each had their Pack races this past Saturday. One boy set a new track record and took 1st place overall, and the other boy won his Den level and took 2nd place overall in his Pack. He finished behind the overall 1st place car by a combined total of .0121 seconds (over 6 races). Wow.
gameday
Footballguy
Yes, that is one of them. If it doesn't roll straight, and if the axles aren't perfectly aligned, nothing else much matters. On the other hand, if the axles are poor, the wheels are poor, or if the weight isn't in the right spot, it doesn't matter if it rolls straight.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Haven't read through this whole thread, so apologies if any of this was discussed...Veteran of 3 or 4 years of PWD with my son (and another 3 or 4 with my daughter because she felt left out and wanted to build her own cars too). His best car and only 1st place winner, I bought an axle kit that had 2 straight rods instead of the 4 nails. Moved them further apart for a longer wheel base.As others mentioned, sanding axles and wheels plus graphite is imperative. I think I also trimmed the wheels down to about half the original width. Obviously make sure all modifications are allowed under your Pack's specific rules. They vary.
St. Louis Bob
Footballguy
Crap, one of the nails has gone mysteriously missing. Do I have to buy a whole new set now? Damn it.
You can pick up a wheel set with the same nails from Lowes pretty cheaply.
We ran our PWD this past week end. Being the terrible parent that i am i almost forgot about the whole damn thing. Got an email reminder form the Pack Leader last Wednesday and was not sure we would even get a car built in time. Went to a friends house who has a bansaw. Got the car cut. First coat of paint went on Thursday morning. Dried it with a hair dryer once it got dry to touch. Second coat that night. Friday was the clear gloss coat. I put the dust stuff in the wheels first thing Wed night and spent a bunch of time spinning them. Kept applying the graphite for the next couple of days. Got the wheels on Saturday morning. Race at 2:00. Surprisingly our car was fast. Everything was going well. I actually thought he had a chance to win and freak me i thought we were going to have to go to districts. Fortunately, a weight fell off the back of the car during the second race. Evidently Super Glue is not as strong as i was lead to believe. Ended up taking 3rd place in his pack which made him happy as he received a certificate for placing. Whew, another PWD down.
St. Louis Bob
Footballguy
Thanks man.
LongDuckDong
Footballguy
Have to do this in the next couple weeks. Rules are you have to use the kits they gave us, can't mess with the axles at all, and can only use Dry Graphite. This will lead to less tinkering with the car but means I'm unlikely to do very well. Not any scouting experience just there to have fun. Hopefully we do all right.
St. Louis Bob
Footballguy
Picked some of these up, they are MUCH smoother than the one that came with the kit. There isn't a barb on the things. This I'll have to remember this for next year.'walnutz said:
shuke
Black Ice Skeptic
You can easily polish the ones from the kit.
