Pinewood Derby (1 Viewer)

[pittstownkiller]

One note about graphite: you have to work it in; apply it sparingly and repeatedly, over many test runs, well before the race. Put graphite on the body where the wheels run too. Graphite forms into microscopic balls as it is rubbed, so it needs to be activated (if you will) and not just applied before the big race. Lubricate with graphite between all the races if they will let you. Do not use any other lubricant.

 

[Disco Stu]

One note about graphite: you have to work it in; apply it sparingly and repeatedly, over many test runs, well before the race. Put graphite on the body where the wheels run too. Graphite forms into microscopic balls as it is rubbed, so it needs to be activated (if you will) and not just applied before the big race. Lubricate with graphite between all the races if they will let you. Do not use any other lubricant.

Agree and disagree.Adding graphite between races is a mistake, because (as you said) the graphite needs to be worked in. In a typical race format, you won't be running nearly enough heats to require additional graphite prior to the finals. On the contrary, the car/graphite will likely be peaking for the finals.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

Crap, one of the nails has gone mysteriously missing. Do I have to buy a whole new set now? Damn it.

You can pick up a wheel set with the same nails from Lowes pretty cheaply.

Picked some of these up, they are MUCH smoother than the one that came with the kit. There isn't a barb on the things. This I'll have to remember this for next year.

You can easily polish the ones from the kit.

I polished 3 of them and realized one was missing so I had my pick up another set (thanks again Walnuts) at Lowes and they were clean as a whistle. Worth the $3 to me.

 

[pittstownkiller]

One note about graphite: you have to work it in; apply it sparingly and repeatedly, over many test runs, well before the race. Put graphite on the body where the wheels run too. Graphite forms into microscopic balls as it is rubbed, so it needs to be activated (if you will) and not just applied before the big race. Lubricate with graphite between all the races if they will let you. Do not use any other lubricant.

Agree and disagree.Adding graphite between races is a mistake, because (as you said) the graphite needs to be worked in. In a typical race format, you won't be running nearly enough heats to require additional graphite prior to the finals. On the contrary, the car/graphite will likely be peaking for the finals.

Once you have the graphite worked in the additional graphite floats between these two surfaces, IIRC. What you don't want is to have the graphite wear through since the wheel rides on the axle on just two small points. I added graphite between races and rolled the additional graphite into the hub/axle contact points as best as I could while shaking off excess; I always thought it maintained the car throughout the races with no drop in times, in later heats. I think that the singleost important factor is polishing the axles. If you're just doing fine grit sandpaper you're leaving performanceIn you shop. After you get your axles as smooth as you think you can get them, go to a hobby shop and get machinist sandpaper, which will be a film with the abrasive quality of cassette tape. Put the axles into a cordless drill, holding onto the part that goes into the car, and go through all the different grits that are in your package. After that make sure your axles are straight by reaming the groove with a small drill bit and use a drop of Elmer's glue to hold them in tight.

 

[Disco Stu]

Crap, one of the nails has gone mysteriously missing. Do I have to buy a whole new set now? Damn it.

You can pick up a wheel set with the same nails from Lowes pretty cheaply.

Picked some of these up, they are MUCH smoother than the one that came with the kit. There isn't a barb on the things. This I'll have to remember this for next year.

Was it packaged like the ones at Hobby Lobby? My link

 

[Disco Stu]

Speaking of Hobby Lobby, I just noticed they carry tungsten putty. That stuff is perfect for squeezing every last .001 ounce out of the 5 ounce limit. It's extremely easy to add or remove a little putty at the weigh-in.

Having access holes on either side of your rear axle also simplifies the fine tuning of your center of gravity.

 

[walnutz]

Crap, one of the nails has gone mysteriously missing. Do I have to buy a whole new set now? Damn it.

You can pick up a wheel set with the same nails from Lowes pretty cheaply.

Picked some of these up, they are MUCH smoother than the one that came with the kit. There isn't a barb on the things. This I'll have to remember this for next year.

You can easily polish the ones from the kit.

I polished 3 of them and realized one was missing so I had my pick up another set (thanks again Walnuts) at Lowes and they were clean as a whistle. Worth the $3 to me.

Good stuff SLB. I am lazy so i just picked up the pre polished nails to save time. I also do not have a dremel or whatever to do the sanding of the nails. The Lowes rout was easier with the time constraint. Good luck to you and the little one SLB. Report back on the race.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

Crap, one of the nails has gone mysteriously missing. Do I have to buy a whole new set now? Damn it.

You can pick up a wheel set with the same nails from Lowes pretty cheaply.

Picked some of these up, they are MUCH smoother than the one that came with the kit. There isn't a barb on the things. This I'll have to remember this for next year.

Was it packaged like the ones at Hobby Lobby? My link

That's them.

Crap, one of the nails has gone mysteriously missing. Do I have to buy a whole new set now? Damn it.

You can pick up a wheel set with the same nails from Lowes pretty cheaply.

Picked some of these up, they are MUCH smoother than the one that came with the kit. There isn't a barb on the things. This I'll have to remember this for next year.

You can easily polish the ones from the kit.

I polished 3 of them and realized one was missing so I had my pick up another set (thanks again Walnuts) at Lowes and they were clean as a whistle. Worth the $3 to me.

Good stuff SLB. I am lazy so i just picked up the pre polished nails to save time. I also do not have a dremel or whatever to do the sanding of the nails. The Lowes rout was easier with the time constraint. Good luck to you and the little one SLB. Report back on the race.

Thanks you, too. Pretty sure we won't be finishing in last this year so I have a pretty easy goal. I hope.

 

[Disco Stu]

Crap, one of the nails has gone mysteriously missing. Do I have to buy a whole new set now? Damn it.

You can pick up a wheel set with the same nails from Lowes pretty cheaply.

Picked some of these up, they are MUCH smoother than the one that came with the kit. There isn't a barb on the things. This I'll have to remember this for next year.

Was it packaged like the ones at Hobby Lobby? My link

That's them.

Thanks. Doing a little research on these Revell axle/wheel sets, popular opinion seems to be that the axles are better but the wheels are worse when compared to the BSA ones that come in the box.The nails are visibly different, so packs/districts with extremely tight rules could potentially disallow them. I can't imagine most can tell the difference though. "Officially licensed" should be acceptable anyway imo.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

Crap, one of the nails has gone mysteriously missing. Do I have to buy a whole new set now? Damn it.

You can pick up a wheel set with the same nails from Lowes pretty cheaply.

Picked some of these up, they are MUCH smoother than the one that came with the kit. There isn't a barb on the things. This I'll have to remember this for next year.

Was it packaged like the ones at Hobby Lobby? My link

That's them.

Thanks. Doing a little research on these Revell axle/wheel sets, popular opinion seems to be that the axles are better but the wheels are worse when compared to the BSA ones that come in the box.The nails are visibly different, so packs/districts with extremely tight rules could potentially disallow them. I can't imagine most can tell the difference though. "Officially licensed" should be acceptable anyway imo.

I agree. The wheels that I bought looked to be exactly the same as the wheels that came with the original set. I used them though.

 

[walnutz]

Stu - I would think that unless they took the car apart they would not really be able to tell if they were different axles. I could barely see the ones i had in the car once they were fully in. Especially the part where you would modify them which is by the head of the nail. Of course this could explain why my son never wins these things as I know jack about building good PWD cars. I think the officially licenses stuff would be good enough as well. Our Den/Pack is really laid back though. There were some modified cars that ran this year that should have been disqualified from our race but no one gave a crap about it. Someone else would have had to go to the district deal though.

 

[Disco Stu]

We are getting a late start this year. Weigh in is on the 24th, and we hadn't even talked about a car until two days ago.

Since we're pressed for time, we're going with the simple Stan Pope rail rider design. Son doesn't like the open spot though, so I guess we'll put duck tape over it. Seriously.

Last night we drilled the axle holes for the extended wheelbase. Again I can't recommend this tool enough. Makes that task a breeze.

Cutting should happen today. I may also pick up some of those Revell axles to reduce the prep work there.

 

[shuke]

One note about graphite: you have to work it in; apply it sparingly and repeatedly, over many test runs, well before the race. Put graphite on the body where the wheels run too. Graphite forms into microscopic balls as it is rubbed, so it needs to be activated (if you will) and not just applied before the big race. Lubricate with graphite between all the races if they will let you. Do not use any other lubricant.

I honestly think that the gap between the axle and wheel ID is too big for graphite to do anything. I've tried packing it in there every which way, but it immediately comes out. I'm just buying that that much is being "embedded" into the smooth metal or plastic. I really think the use of graphite is based on a lot of years of non-scientific handed down "knowledge".The best place for it is probably on the car right where the wheel hub touches.

 

[shuke]

to pre-polished nails.

 

[Mr. Pickles]

Colloidal silver is the way to go.

 

[Disco Stu]

to pre-polished nails.

Don't worry, that's not what they are. The plating has more of a shine to it, making them appear polished. However there are surface anomalies visible to the naked eye. They aren't the standard repeatable crimp marks... more like random waves maybe. One thing that's clearly still there are the burrs under the head.At least that's what I'm seeing in the Revell set I bought tonight. Small sample size and all...

 

[Disco Stu]

One note about graphite: you have to work it in; apply it sparingly and repeatedly, over many test runs, well before the race. Put graphite on the body where the wheels run too. Graphite forms into microscopic balls as it is rubbed, so it needs to be activated (if you will) and not just applied before the big race. Lubricate with graphite between all the races if they will let you. Do not use any other lubricant.

I honestly think that the gap between the axle and wheel ID is too big for graphite to do anything. I've tried packing it in there every which way, but it immediately comes out. I'm just buying that that much is being "embedded" into the smooth metal or plastic. I really think the use of graphite is based on a lot of years of non-scientific handed down "knowledge".The best place for it is probably on the car right where the wheel hub touches.

The axle doesn't remain centered in the wheel ID, so that gap effectively disappears. The wheel rotates around the bottom surface of the nail. Of course you want to minimize friction at that interface. I must be misreading your point.Graphite Skeptic?

 

[gameday]

We are getting a late start this year. Weigh in is on the 24th, and we hadn't even talked about a car until two days ago.

Since we're pressed for time, we're going with the simple Stan Pope rail rider design. Son doesn't like the open spot though, so I guess we'll put duck tape over it. Seriously.

Last night we drilled the axle holes for the extended wheelbase. Again I can't recommend this tool enough. Makes that task a breeze.

Cutting should happen today. I may also pick up some of those Revell axles to reduce the prep work there.

Big fan of the Stan Pope design. My sons have won several Pack and District Championships with it. Here is one of their cars: Stan Pope Rail Rider

 

[gameday]

One note about graphite: you have to work it in; apply it sparingly and repeatedly, over many test runs, well before the race. Put graphite on the body where the wheels run too. Graphite forms into microscopic balls as it is rubbed, so it needs to be activated (if you will) and not just applied before the big race. Lubricate with graphite between all the races if they will let you. Do not use any other lubricant.

I honestly think that the gap between the axle and wheel ID is too big for graphite to do anything. I've tried packing it in there every which way, but it immediately comes out. I'm just buying that that much is being "embedded" into the smooth metal or plastic. I really think the use of graphite is based on a lot of years of non-scientific handed down "knowledge".The best place for it is probably on the car right where the wheel hub touches.

The graphite doesn't get 'packed' into a gap. Rather, it is applied to any surface that will touch another and then it is 'worked in'. By working it in, the graphite crystals are crushed, which results in them coating the surfaces and providing lubricating qualities. This is not just a myth passed down through the years. There is a site called MaxVelocity where they run controlled tests on just about any PWD concept there is. The research shows the dramatic difference between using no graphite to using graphite, and between all the different brands of graphite.

 

[Disco Stu]

We are getting a late start this year. Weigh in is on the 24th, and we hadn't even talked about a car until two days ago.

Since we're pressed for time, we're going with the simple Stan Pope rail rider design. Son doesn't like the open spot though, so I guess we'll put duck tape over it. Seriously.

Last night we drilled the axle holes for the extended wheelbase. Again I can't recommend this tool enough. Makes that task a breeze.

Cutting should happen today. I may also pick up some of those Revell axles to reduce the prep work there.

Big fan of the Stan Pope design. My sons have won several Pack and District Championships with it. Here is one of their cars: Stan Pope Rail Rider

That's pretty sharp. It looks like we were a little more conservative on the cut. It weighs 0.4 ounces before sanding. What did that car get down to? 0.2?The canopy we're using is just over 1.75", so we left the back 2.25" to give a little leeway in placement. The 5/8" hole is oversized for the 1/2" canopy post. Maybe we'll route out some more around it. Though perhaps that's a waste of time, since any wood mass removed will just be replaced by weights in basically the same spot.

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Edit: fixed links

 

[gameday]

We are getting a late start this year. Weigh in is on the 24th, and we hadn't even talked about a car until two days ago.

Since we're pressed for time, we're going with the simple Stan Pope rail rider design. Son doesn't like the open spot though, so I guess we'll put duck tape over it. Seriously.

Last night we drilled the axle holes for the extended wheelbase. Again I can't recommend this tool enough. Makes that task a breeze.

Cutting should happen today. I may also pick up some of those Revell axles to reduce the prep work there.

Big fan of the Stan Pope design. My sons have won several Pack and District Championships with it. Here is one of their cars: Stan Pope Rail Rider

That's pretty sharp. It looks like we were a little more conservative on the cut. It weighs 0.4 ounces before sanding. What did that car get down to? 0.2?The canopy we're using is just over 1.75", so we left the back 2.25" to give a little leeway in placement. The 5/8" hole is oversized for the 1/2" canopy post. Maybe we'll route out some more around it. Though perhaps that's a waste of time, since any wood mass removed will just be replaced by weights in basically the same spot.

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Bottom

We've made so many cars that I don't recall what the weight of the wood was anymore. We've generally been between .16 and .24 ounces. But, even at .4 ounces you will still have room to add 4+ ounces of weight. I recall watching your posts last year and I can tell you know all the tricks so I can't wait to see how your little guy does again. Good luck.

 

[shuke]

One note about graphite: you have to work it in; apply it sparingly and repeatedly, over many test runs, well before the race. Put graphite on the body where the wheels run too. Graphite forms into microscopic balls as it is rubbed, so it needs to be activated (if you will) and not just applied before the big race. Lubricate with graphite between all the races if they will let you. Do not use any other lubricant.

I honestly think that the gap between the axle and wheel ID is too big for graphite to do anything. I've tried packing it in there every which way, but it immediately comes out. I'm just buying that that much is being "embedded" into the smooth metal or plastic. I really think the use of graphite is based on a lot of years of non-scientific handed down "knowledge".The best place for it is probably on the car right where the wheel hub touches.

The axle doesn't remain centered in the wheel ID, so that gap effectively disappears. The wheel rotates around the bottom surface of the nail. Of course you want to minimize friction at that interface. I must be misreading your point.Graphite Skeptic?

The gap doesn't "disappear", it just shifts. The volume of the gap remains. No way is any of that graphite remaining in there. This isn't like a tight fitting door hinge. As soon as you spin the wheel on the axle to "work in the graphite", it's all falling out.

 

[Disco Stu]

One note about graphite: you have to work it in; apply it sparingly and repeatedly, over many test runs, well before the race. Put graphite on the body where the wheels run too. Graphite forms into microscopic balls as it is rubbed, so it needs to be activated (if you will) and not just applied before the big race. Lubricate with graphite between all the races if they will let you. Do not use any other lubricant.

I honestly think that the gap between the axle and wheel ID is too big for graphite to do anything. I've tried packing it in there every which way, but it immediately comes out. I'm just buying that that much is being "embedded" into the smooth metal or plastic. I really think the use of graphite is based on a lot of years of non-scientific handed down "knowledge".The best place for it is probably on the car right where the wheel hub touches.

The axle doesn't remain centered in the wheel ID, so that gap effectively disappears. The wheel rotates around the bottom surface of the nail. Of course you want to minimize friction at that interface. I must be misreading your point.Graphite Skeptic?

The gap doesn't "disappear", it just shifts. The volume of the gap remains. No way is any of that graphite remaining in there. This isn't like a tight fitting door hinge. As soon as you spin the wheel on the axle to "work in the graphite", it's all falling out.

I mean the gap between the axle and the ID of the wheel. They are in contact (which you know of course, otherwise you wouldn't bother polishing the nail). Having graphite to lubricate that contact point makes a huge difference.Just spinning the wheels should be all the evidence you need. You can see and hear the difference. If you don't, it's possible your graphite application technique is the issue. Some will fall out of course, but not nearly all of it.

 

[Disco Stu]

FWIW, we use the graphite from Max Velocity ($5.95). It's a finer, more consistent material than the standard tube graphite. And the applicator needle makes it easier to use.Their application instructions worked well for us last year.

1. Fill the bore of the wheel with graphite. 2. Insert an axle into the wheel bore. 3. With one hand, firmly grasp the axle and hold the axle horizontal to the ground. 4. With the other hand, spin the tire gently -- don't drop the axle. Spin the wheel ten times. 5. Hold the axle with the wheel hanging towards the ground. 6. Deposit some lube into the gap between the axle and wheel bore. 7. Tap the wheel gently to help move the lube down into the wheel bore. 8. Repeat steps 3 to 7, two more times. 9. Finally, spin the wheel 10 times. Don't add any more graphite after this point. 10. After performing this procedure keep the wheel/axle pairs together as a unit.

 

[gameday]

FWIW, we use the graphite from Max Velocity ($5.95). It's a finer, more consistent material than the standard tube graphite. And the applicator needle makes it easier to use.Their application instructions worked well for us last year.

1. Fill the bore of the wheel with graphite. 2. Insert an axle into the wheel bore. 3. With one hand, firmly grasp the axle and hold the axle horizontal to the ground. 4. With the other hand, spin the tire gently -- don't drop the axle. Spin the wheel ten times. 5. Hold the axle with the wheel hanging towards the ground. 6. Deposit some lube into the gap between the axle and wheel bore. 7. Tap the wheel gently to help move the lube down into the wheel bore. 8. Repeat steps 3 to 7, two more times. 9. Finally, spin the wheel 10 times. Don't add any more graphite after this point. 10. After performing this procedure keep the wheel/axle pairs together as a unit.

Agree 100%. This is the same exact process I tell all the kids to use and it works every time. I think it's a mistake to apply too much graphite or to apply it to the tire tread. Some people put graphite in a baggy and then 'soak' the axles and wheels. It causes a mess, isn't as effective, and isn't necessary.

 

[Disco Stu]

FWIW, we use the graphite from Max Velocity ($5.95). It's a finer, more consistent material than the standard tube graphite. And the applicator needle makes it easier to use.Their application instructions worked well for us last year.

1. Fill the bore of the wheel with graphite. 2. Insert an axle into the wheel bore. 3. With one hand, firmly grasp the axle and hold the axle horizontal to the ground. 4. With the other hand, spin the tire gently -- don't drop the axle. Spin the wheel ten times. 5. Hold the axle with the wheel hanging towards the ground. 6. Deposit some lube into the gap between the axle and wheel bore. 7. Tap the wheel gently to help move the lube down into the wheel bore. 8. Repeat steps 3 to 7, two more times. 9. Finally, spin the wheel 10 times. Don't add any more graphite after this point. 10. After performing this procedure keep the wheel/axle pairs together as a unit.

Agree 100%. This is the same exact process I tell all the kids to use and it works every time. I think it's a mistake to apply too much graphite or to apply it to the tire tread. Some people put graphite in a baggy and then 'soak' the axles and wheels. It causes a mess, isn't as effective, and isn't necessary.

Do you add any during/after the wheel alignment process? I can't remember exactly how we handled that part, though I'm sure we added some to the front wheel that was removed several times.

 

[Mr. Pickles]

I use monodisperse C60 fullerenes in all of my vehicles.

 

[Disco Stu]

We are getting a late start this year. Weigh in is on the 24th, and we hadn't even talked about a car until two days ago.

Since we're pressed for time, we're going with the simple Stan Pope rail rider design. Son doesn't like the open spot though, so I guess we'll put duck tape over it. Seriously.

Last night we drilled the axle holes for the extended wheelbase. Again I can't recommend this tool enough. Makes that task a breeze.

Cutting should happen today. I may also pick up some of those Revell axles to reduce the prep work there.

Big fan of the Stan Pope design. My sons have won several Pack and District Championships with it. Here is one of their cars: Stan Pope Rail Rider

That's pretty sharp. It looks like we were a little more conservative on the cut. It weighs 0.4 ounces before sanding. What did that car get down to? 0.2?The canopy we're using is just over 1.75", so we left the back 2.25" to give a little leeway in placement. The 5/8" hole is oversized for the 1/2" canopy post. Maybe we'll route out some more around it. Though perhaps that's a waste of time, since any wood mass removed will just be replaced by weights in basically the same spot.

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Bottom

We've made so many cars that I don't recall what the weight of the wood was anymore. We've generally been between .16 and .24 ounces. But, even at .4 ounces you will still have room to add 4+ ounces of weight. I recall watching your posts last year and I can tell you know all the tricks so I can't wait to see how your little guy does again. Good luck.

Thanks. Links to pics are active now. We bought some 1/16" balsa last night that we're going to try using as a "hood" to cover the dead space. Should be an easy way to add a second color.I also decided to throw something together for the adult "outlaw" race. No weight limit on that thing. Yesterday I found two 13.5 ounce tungsten pieces to use. With that much weight, I'm not worried about optimizing anything. It's going to be fast regardless.

 

[Disco Stu]

I use monodisperse C60 fullerenes in all of my vehicles.

Hmmm... I'm partial to the C70 myself.

 

[gameday]

FWIW, we use the graphite from Max Velocity ($5.95). It's a finer, more consistent material than the standard tube graphite. And the applicator needle makes it easier to use.Their application instructions worked well for us last year.

1. Fill the bore of the wheel with graphite. 2. Insert an axle into the wheel bore. 3. With one hand, firmly grasp the axle and hold the axle horizontal to the ground. 4. With the other hand, spin the tire gently -- don't drop the axle. Spin the wheel ten times. 5. Hold the axle with the wheel hanging towards the ground. 6. Deposit some lube into the gap between the axle and wheel bore. 7. Tap the wheel gently to help move the lube down into the wheel bore. 8. Repeat steps 3 to 7, two more times. 9. Finally, spin the wheel 10 times. Don't add any more graphite after this point. 10. After performing this procedure keep the wheel/axle pairs together as a unit.

Agree 100%. This is the same exact process I tell all the kids to use and it works every time. I think it's a mistake to apply too much graphite or to apply it to the tire tread. Some people put graphite in a baggy and then 'soak' the axles and wheels. It causes a mess, isn't as effective, and isn't necessary.

Do you add any during/after the wheel alignment process? I can't remember exactly how we handled that part, though I'm sure we added some to the front wheel that was removed several times.

We do graphite before the alignment process but then we do one final application after alignment. You can either leave the wheels in place and squirt the graphite in for the final app, or put a dot on the axle, pull the axle/wheel, graphite, and then re-insert wheel using care to line the dot up where it was prior to yanking it out.

 

[gameday]

FWIW, we use the graphite from Max Velocity ($5.95). It's a finer, more consistent material than the standard tube graphite. And the applicator needle makes it easier to use.Their application instructions worked well for us last year.

1. Fill the bore of the wheel with graphite. 2. Insert an axle into the wheel bore. 3. With one hand, firmly grasp the axle and hold the axle horizontal to the ground. 4. With the other hand, spin the tire gently -- don't drop the axle. Spin the wheel ten times. 5. Hold the axle with the wheel hanging towards the ground. 6. Deposit some lube into the gap between the axle and wheel bore. 7. Tap the wheel gently to help move the lube down into the wheel bore. 8. Repeat steps 3 to 7, two more times. 9. Finally, spin the wheel 10 times. Don't add any more graphite after this point. 10. After performing this procedure keep the wheel/axle pairs together as a unit.

Agree 100%. This is the same exact process I tell all the kids to use and it works every time. I think it's a mistake to apply too much graphite or to apply it to the tire tread. Some people put graphite in a baggy and then 'soak' the axles and wheels. It causes a mess, isn't as effective, and isn't necessary.

Do you add any during/after the wheel alignment process? I can't remember exactly how we handled that part, though I'm sure we added some to the front wheel that was removed several times.

BTW, you may already know this but I'll post it anyway. If the axle starts to be loose in the axle hole after you yank it out a bunch of times you can put a drop of water in the axle hole and it'll swell up, providing a tight fit. I have never had a need to glue the axles/wheels in.Yeah, yeah, yeah . . . let the double entendre jokes fly

 

[shuke]

What's the easiest way to get the axles in without risking bending them? I did use a drill press to open the holes up some, but still left them undersized so the axles won't go in under just finger pressure.

 

[Abraham]

What's the easiest way to get the axles in without risking bending them? I did use a drill press to open the holes up some, but still left them undersized so the axles won't go in under just finger pressure.

Can you run a fine bit hand saw through the groove? Or have they changed the kits? Used to be the axles went in to an exposed groove, not a hole.

 

[walnutz]

Shuke - you will laugh but I put a small amount of aquaphor on the nail and it helped the nail slide right in to the axle. Again, i am a guy who shoots low here so you may want to ignore any advice I give here. I have heard that wax works as well.

 

[shuke]

What's the easiest way to get the axles in without risking bending them? I did use a drill press to open the holes up some, but still left them undersized so the axles won't go in under just finger pressure.

Can you run a fine bit hand saw through the groove? Or have they changed the kits? Used to be the axles went in to an exposed groove, not a hole.

You can. Yes, there is an exposed groove. I think the axles are .088" in diameter and the groove may be about .062" wide. I am afraid that using a saw would get it too sloppy. We drilled holes at the very top point of the grooves, at about .078" in diameter. Last year we screwed up by jamming one of the axles in crooked and I don't want to force these in.

 

[Abraham]

Fine sand paper in the groove?

 

[ctriopelle]

We are getting a late start this year. Weigh in is on the 24th, and we hadn't even talked about a car until two days ago.

Since we're pressed for time, we're going with the simple Stan Pope rail rider design. Son doesn't like the open spot though, so I guess we'll put duck tape over it. Seriously.

Last night we drilled the axle holes for the extended wheelbase. Again I can't recommend this tool enough. Makes that task a breeze.

Cutting should happen today. I may also pick up some of those Revell axles to reduce the prep work there.

Big fan of the Stan Pope design. My sons have won several Pack and District Championships with it. Here is one of their cars: Stan Pope Rail Rider

That's pretty sharp. It looks like we were a little more conservative on the cut. It weighs 0.4 ounces before sanding. What did that car get down to? 0.2?The canopy we're using is just over 1.75", so we left the back 2.25" to give a little leeway in placement. The 5/8" hole is oversized for the 1/2" canopy post. Maybe we'll route out some more around it. Though perhaps that's a waste of time, since any wood mass removed will just be replaced by weights in basically the same spot.

Top

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Edit: fixed links

Not to barge in on your conversation, but +1 on the Stan Pope design. Looks like you are well on your way and don't feel bad about losing the crossmember it's plenty strong still. We had a work derby with a bunch of crazy smart engineers and I smoked them with a car like that. Ran 3 wheels down, rail rider, and weight was over 5 oz and backed down via tungsten putty until legal (this is actually really important with a low resolution scale). I think the wood was 0.3 oz when I was done. All main weights were tungsten cubes in the back. Had CG about 3/4" in front of the rear axle and couldn't be caught within a car length. This was all adults though, so the rules weren't quite as fussy as a lot of kids competitions I read about.And don't forget to polish your axles and graphite pack your wheels. Makes a HUGE difference you can see just by spinning them by hand.

 

[Disco Stu]

weight was over 5 oz and backed down via tungsten putty until legal (this is actually really important with a low resolution scale).

We do this as well. We get it to read 5.1 on our postage scale at home, and then remove putty at the weigh-in until it drops from 5.1 to 5.0. At the district race the scale went to the hundredth, and almost everyone was having to modify. Most were having to take a drill or Dremel to the car, likely getting sawdust in the axles. We just had to scoop out a little putty from one of the access holes.

 

[gameday]

What's the easiest way to get the axles in without risking bending them? I did use a drill press to open the holes up some, but still left them undersized so the axles won't go in under just finger pressure.

Can you run a fine bit hand saw through the groove? Or have they changed the kits? Used to be the axles went in to an exposed groove, not a hole.

You can. Yes, there is an exposed groove. I think the axles are .088" in diameter and the groove may be about .062" wide. I am afraid that using a saw would get it too sloppy. We drilled holes at the very top point of the grooves, at about .078" in diameter. Last year we screwed up by jamming one of the axles in crooked and I don't want to force these in.

I'm not sure I understand why it is difficult to insert the axles into the holes. Did you use a #44 drill bit to drill the holes? The axles should go in fairly easily, but still be snug.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

What's the easiest way to get the axles in without risking bending them? I did use a drill press to open the holes up some, but still left them undersized so the axles won't go in under just finger pressure.

Can you run a fine bit hand saw through the groove? Or have they changed the kits? Used to be the axles went in to an exposed groove, not a hole.

You can. Yes, there is an exposed groove. I think the axles are .088" in diameter and the groove may be about .062" wide. I am afraid that using a saw would get it too sloppy. We drilled holes at the very top point of the grooves, at about .078" in diameter. Last year we screwed up by jamming one of the axles in crooked and I don't want to force these in.

I'm not sure I understand why it is difficult to insert the axles into the holes. Did you use a #44 drill bit to drill the holes? The axles should go in fairly easily, but still be snug.

We HAVE to use the pre-drilled holes and it was a ##### to get the back tires in. I actually broke the wood off the back side which was the suck.Also, how do you get the thing aligned properly? I already turned the car in so I can't do anything but it would be good to know for next year. Plus our goal is to not finish in last, I'm fairly certain I have that covered.Like the tip on the tungsten putty too, Stu. I'll be doing that next year.Tonight is race night and I still have a chest infection. Which means I can't kill time by going out the car for a nip of vodka and a smoke. It's going to be a LONG night.

 

[Disco Stu]

Last night we drilled the axle holes for the extended wheelbase. Again I can't recommend this tool enough. Makes that task a breeze.

Bump for shuke and Bob. That tool helps even if you're using the precut slots. Also for those using the slots, be sure to make the one closer to the end your rear axle. Most do it the opposite way, since that's what is pictured on the box.

 

[Disco Stu]

And yes on the alignment tweaks. We set up a little ramp at home. This is just the first frame of a video, but you get the idea. Downhill for about three feet, then leveled off for another two.The front left wheel was raised, and we wanted to try riding the rail this year. At the end of the 5+ foot ramp, we had a target three inches left of center. After some trial and error, we were hitting it consistently.We ended up just having to remove the right wheel several times to try different "compass points" on the axle head.We also tried to check for the wheels moving in and out on the axles but didn't see anything noticeable.

Alignment bump for Bob. There's not much detail there though. Stu Jr is very concerned about finishing construction in time to repeat this process this year.

 

[gameday]

What's the easiest way to get the axles in without risking bending them? I did use a drill press to open the holes up some, but still left them undersized so the axles won't go in under just finger pressure.

Can you run a fine bit hand saw through the groove? Or have they changed the kits? Used to be the axles went in to an exposed groove, not a hole.

You can. Yes, there is an exposed groove. I think the axles are .088" in diameter and the groove may be about .062" wide. I am afraid that using a saw would get it too sloppy. We drilled holes at the very top point of the grooves, at about .078" in diameter. Last year we screwed up by jamming one of the axles in crooked and I don't want to force these in.

I'm not sure I understand why it is difficult to insert the axles into the holes. Did you use a #44 drill bit to drill the holes? The axles should go in fairly easily, but still be snug.

We HAVE to use the pre-drilled holes and it was a ##### to get the back tires in. I actually broke the wood off the back side which was the suck.Also, how do you get the thing aligned properly? I already turned the car in so I can't do anything but it would be good to know for next year. Plus our goal is to not finish in last, I'm fairly certain I have that covered.Like the tip on the tungsten putty too, Stu. I'll be doing that next year.Tonight is race night and I still have a chest infection. Which means I can't kill time by going out the car for a nip of vodka and a smoke. It's going to be a LONG night.

Here is a little app that helps with alignment: http://www.florian.org/Kids/Scouting/PineAlign/PineAlign.htmlThis app will tell you if the axle needs to be adjusted up, down, forward, or back, or a combo of that. To make the adjustment, I put a dot on each axle head and then I will gently bend the axle in the direction of the dot. So, if the florian took told you to adjust the axle up I would then insert the axle with the dot at the top. Make sense?

 

[Warrior]

I need to find a girlfriend so we can get married and have a son so I can build one of these cars with him.

 

[Mr. Pickles]

Tungsten putty? Jesus..

 

[Disco Stu]

Here is a little app that helps with alignment: http://www.florian.org/Kids/Scouting/PineAlign/PineAlign.html

This app will tell you if the axle needs to be adjusted up, down, forward, or back, or a combo of that. To make the adjustment, I put a dot on each axle head and then I will gently bend the axle in the direction of the dot. So, if the florian took told you to adjust the axle up I would then insert the axle with the dot at the top. Make sense?

I have been afraid to do this. I just assumed the axles aren't perfectly straight and adjusted based on that. But we also only adjusted the front (dominant) wheel... using it to steer into the rail.How much of a bend are we talking? How far from the head?

And are you using anything special to pull the axles each time?

 

[buck naked]

I just love reading this thread and the race stories. It brings back fun memories of building cars with my daughter when she was 8 and 9 years old and attending an Awana club. So indulge just one story from me.The first year she and I built a car together when she was 8, it was pretty fast but she finished 4th out of about 40 girls. 4th was one place out of getting a ribbon. The dejected look on her face as we sat in the car afterwards was one of those Dad moments that I'll never forget. :( Bam, right in the gut. So, the next year rolls around, and I told her we would do everything we could to build the fastest car. I researched a TON on the innerwebs, and discovered many of the things you are discussing in this thread - design, polishing the axles, weight placement, exact weight, graphite, etc. The car was a wedge design, and she painted it like a watermelon wedge. We mixed languages and called it the "Aguamelon", and she painted the name on the side. When it was finished, I rolled it across our kitchen countertop. It flew straight as an arrow. I somehow got the axles absolutely perfect. I would barely touch the thing and it wouldn't stop rolling. I remember thinking this car is DAM fast, and this was all we could dne problem for me. On the Saturday night of the race, I was scheduled to be at a weekend men's conference in Milwaukee, about 100 miles away from where I live in Illinois. Nonetheless, I wasn't about to miss this time with my daughter. I remember leaving my conference and driving about 90 mph all the way home to make sure I got home on time. I made the races just before they started.When I arrived, I saw a couple cars from one family of two boys that looked like they just rolled off the Porsche car lot. The paint jobs on those things were ridiculous. It was obvious that that Dad should have open a pinewood derby business. And those cars were FAST.There were about 100 total boys and girls racing cars that night. Girls and boys separated. In her first race, her car did not disappoint. She won and the car looked great. The Aguamelon was rolling. She went 5-0 in her prelim races.She advanced to the finals, and won her next 3 races to take the girls championship. Her dejected look from last year was replaced with a huge smile.Finally, the club matches the girl's champ against the boy's champ in a final. She was racing against one of the boys' "Porsches". I still remember, to this day, that boy saying before the race "Oh no, I have to race against Elise!". LOLHer car beat the Porsche by a car length. Long live the Aguamelon. I asked her yesterday if she still had the car, and she said yes. She is almost 17.

 

[Mr. Pickles]

I just love reading this thread and the race stories. It brings back fun memories of building cars with my daughter when she was 8 and 9 years old and attending an Awana club. So indulge just one story from me.The first year she and I built a car together when she was 8, it was pretty fast but she finished 4th out of about 40 girls. 4th was one place out of getting a ribbon. The dejected look on her face as we sat in the car afterwards was one of those Dad moments that I'll never forget. :( Bam, right in the gut. So, the next year rolls around, and I told her we would do everything we could to build the fastest car. I researched a TON on the innerwebs, and discovered many of the things you are discussing in this thread - design, polishing the axles, weight placement, exact weight, graphite, etc. The car was a wedge design, and she painted it like a watermelon wedge. We mixed languages and called it the "Aguamelon", and she painted the name on the side. When it was finished, I rolled it across our kitchen countertop. It flew straight as an arrow. I somehow got the axles absolutely perfect. I would barely touch the thing and it wouldn't stop rolling. I remember thinking this car is DAM fast, and this was all we could dne problem for me. On the Saturday night of the race, I was scheduled to be at a weekend men's conference in Milwaukee, about 100 miles away from where I live in Illinois. Nonetheless, I wasn't about to miss this time with my daughter. I remember leaving my conference and driving about 90 mph all the way home to make sure I got home on time. I made the races just before they started.When I arrived, I saw a couple cars from one family of two boys that looked like they just rolled off the Porsche car lot. The paint jobs on those things were ridiculous. It was obvious that that Dad should have open a pinewood derby business. And those cars were FAST.There were about 100 total boys and girls racing cars that night. Girls and boys separated. In her first race, her car did not disappoint. She won and the car looked great. The Aguamelon was rolling. She went 5-0 in her prelim races.She advanced to the finals, and won her next 3 races to take the girls championship. Her dejected look from last year was replaced with a huge smile.Finally, the club matches the girl's champ against the boy's champ in a final. She was racing against one of the boys' "Porsches". I still remember, to this day, that boy saying before the race "Oh no, I have to race against Elise!". LOLHer car beat the Porsche by a car length. Long live the Aguamelon. I asked her yesterday if she still had the car, and she said yes. She is almost 17.

"So, do you want to pawn it or sell it?"[/Rick]

 

[gameday]

I just love reading this thread and the race stories. It brings back fun memories of building cars with my daughter when she was 8 and 9 years old and attending an Awana club. So indulge just one story from me.The first year she and I built a car together when she was 8, it was pretty fast but she finished 4th out of about 40 girls. 4th was one place out of getting a ribbon. The dejected look on her face as we sat in the car afterwards was one of those Dad moments that I'll never forget. :( Bam, right in the gut. So, the next year rolls around, and I told her we would do everything we could to build the fastest car. I researched a TON on the innerwebs, and discovered many of the things you are discussing in this thread - design, polishing the axles, weight placement, exact weight, graphite, etc. The car was a wedge design, and she painted it like a watermelon wedge. We mixed languages and called it the "Aguamelon", and she painted the name on the side. When it was finished, I rolled it across our kitchen countertop. It flew straight as an arrow. I somehow got the axles absolutely perfect. I would barely touch the thing and it wouldn't stop rolling. I remember thinking this car is DAM fast, and this was all we could dne problem for me. On the Saturday night of the race, I was scheduled to be at a weekend men's conference in Milwaukee, about 100 miles away from where I live in Illinois. Nonetheless, I wasn't about to miss this time with my daughter. I remember leaving my conference and driving about 90 mph all the way home to make sure I got home on time. I made the races just before they started.When I arrived, I saw a couple cars from one family of two boys that looked like they just rolled off the Porsche car lot. The paint jobs on those things were ridiculous. It was obvious that that Dad should have open a pinewood derby business. And those cars were FAST.There were about 100 total boys and girls racing cars that night. Girls and boys separated. In her first race, her car did not disappoint. She won and the car looked great. The Aguamelon was rolling. She went 5-0 in her prelim races.She advanced to the finals, and won her next 3 races to take the girls championship. Her dejected look from last year was replaced with a huge smile.Finally, the club matches the girl's champ against the boy's champ in a final. She was racing against one of the boys' "Porsches". I still remember, to this day, that boy saying before the race "Oh no, I have to race against Elise!". LOLHer car beat the Porsche by a car length. Long live the Aguamelon. I asked her yesterday if she still had the car, and she said yes. She is almost 17.

Love it. Over the years my boys got to the point where they did just about every process to the car, and even showed all the other scouts how to make their cars at workshops. Between both boys they won 35 trophies. But, unlike your daughter, they've relegated those trophies to the attic and have put baseball and Karate trophies in their place.

 

[gameday]

Here is a little app that helps with alignment: http://www.florian.org/Kids/Scouting/PineAlign/PineAlign.html

This app will tell you if the axle needs to be adjusted up, down, forward, or back, or a combo of that. To make the adjustment, I put a dot on each axle head and then I will gently bend the axle in the direction of the dot. So, if the florian took told you to adjust the axle up I would then insert the axle with the dot at the top. Make sense?

I have been afraid to do this. I just assumed the axles aren't perfectly straight and adjusted based on that. But we also only adjusted the front (dominant) wheel... using it to steer into the rail.How much of a bend are we talking? How far from the head?

And are you using anything special to pull the axles each time?

Disco,I use the pro axle press from this site http://www.maximum-velocity.com/pro-axle.htm. I put an old wheel on the axle and I insert the axle into the tool. I then clamp the tool into a vise. I then gently push on the wheel. That causes the bend in the axle to be at precisely the spot where it meets the wood once the axle is inserted into the car. The reason I use and old wheel is to not mar the internal hub of a good wheel.

I don't use anything special to pull the wheels. Just a gentle pull.