Planned Parenthood leaked video (2 Viewers)

[tommyboy]

its just more crony capitalism, and both sides do it, a lot. the difference i guess is they're in teh business of ripping babies apart and selling the organs and limbs. But hey, if you want a whole baby we can do that too! I need a lamborghini.

Weren't you in this thread earlier pretending you were pro choice?

I am pro choice, but im also anti PP based on their actions and see no reason why my tax dollars should subsidize them. Theyll figure out a way to get the money

 

[Fennis]

its just more crony capitalism, and both sides do it, a lot. the difference i guess is they're in teh business of ripping babies apart and selling the organs and limbs. But hey, if you want a whole baby we can do that too! I need a lamborghini.

Weren't you in this thread earlier pretending you were pro choice?

I am pro choice, but im also anti PP based on their actions and see no reason why my tax dollars should subsidize them. Theyll figure out a way to get the money

Its not the funding issue, its that most people who favor abortion rights don't call abortions 'ripping babies apart', but I guess there is always an exception.

 

[rockaction]

Its not the funding issue, its that most people who favor abortion rights don't call abortions 'ripping babies apart', but I guess there is always an exception.

I think they're ripping babies apart, and I am one of the exceptions. I have no idea how a law against such a personal decision gets enforced without a million contingent issues that go along with it.

I consider that to be an actually fundamentally conservative position. Before we enact a bunch of laws and entitle ourselves to enforcement methods better reserved for a police state, we ought consider a bit of female empiricism regarding the matter of life.

It's nuts. I hate abortion. Loathe it. I think it's the destruction of a baby. It's likely a killing, and possibly murder, if one wants to consider legality. It's also likely one of those questions that God or nature gave us that is too large for our own comprehension at this moment. I find all certainty regarding the question distasteful.

 

[Homer J Simpson]

I think another thing is that Democrats have a very strong "everyone deserves a second chance especially if they are on my side" mentality and sometimes this causes Democrats to make very poor decisions. Sometimes you just have to give someone the boot the very first time they screw up. Some things don't deserve a second chance.

Frankly i'm flummoxed on th stubborn defense of PP and the assertion by so many democrats that PP is the only possible provider of these services. I guarantee that if the govt. put out a request for bid on grants.gov for a half billion dollars they would get lots of responses. Lots.

But, then again, the winner of that contract may not give the multi-million dollar donation reach arounds to multitudes of Democratic campaigns.

I think a large part of it is because this isn't about "justice", this is about an agenda. Why isn't the narrative about prosecution instead of defunding? Because the GOP isn't interested in justice. They are interested about stopping abortion. Do you think if another organization was getting the grants the outcry from the right would stop?

As far as prosecution I think you'll hear a lot more about that part of things after this latest video. On tape she lays out in detail how they are adjusting abortions to keep as much viable, sellable tissue there to be harvested. That is clearly illegal. Prior to this they claim that they're just covering expenses with fetal tissue sales. Accounting is magic and I'm sure they can show this somehow - I don't think that was prosecutable.

And I'll throw this out there. The first GOP candidate to say that Democrats are "getting donation reach arounds" will get my vote.

You danced around my question - why defund? Just prosecute and move on.

Why reward a company that has a culture of detestable, illegal actions with half a billion dollars of support? Prosecuting the company or a few executives won't achieve squat as far as company culture.

I'd think both would be appropriate.

Why do you keep calling it a company?

 

[Fennis]

Its not the funding issue, its that most people who favor abortion rights don't call abortions 'ripping babies apart', but I guess there is always an exception.

I think they're ripping babies apart, and I am one of the exceptions. I have no idea how a law against such a personal decision gets enforced without a million contingent issues that go along with it.

I consider that to be an actually fundamentally conservative position. Before we enact a bunch of laws and entitle ourselves to enforcement methods better reserved for a police state, we ought consider a bit of female empiricism regarding the matter of life.

It's nuts. I hate abortion. Loathe it. I think it's the destruction of a baby. It's likely a killing, and possibly murder, if one wants to consider legality. It's also likely one of those questions that God or nature gave us that is too large for our own comprehension at this moment. I find all certainty regarding the question distasteful.

Interesting take

 

[tommyboy]

its just more crony capitalism, and both sides do it, a lot. the difference i guess is they're in teh business of ripping babies apart and selling the organs and limbs. But hey, if you want a whole baby we can do that too! I need a lamborghini.

Weren't you in this thread earlier pretending you were pro choice?

I am pro choice, but im also anti PP based on their actions and see no reason why my tax dollars should subsidize them. Theyll figure out a way to get the money

Its not the funding issue, its that most people who favor abortion rights don't call abortions 'ripping babies apart', but I guess there is always an exception.

Thats what abortion is, dude.

See its horrible, but even so id prefer it stay legal.

 

[Sand]

I think another thing is that Democrats have a very strong "everyone deserves a second chance especially if they are on my side" mentality and sometimes this causes Democrats to make very poor decisions. Sometimes you just have to give someone the boot the very first time they screw up. Some things don't deserve a second chance.

Frankly i'm flummoxed on th stubborn defense of PP and the assertion by so many democrats that PP is the only possible provider of these services. I guarantee that if the govt. put out a request for bid on grants.gov for a half billion dollars they would get lots of responses. Lots.

But, then again, the winner of that contract may not give the multi-million dollar donation reach arounds to multitudes of Democratic campaigns.

I think a large part of it is because this isn't about "justice", this is about an agenda. Why isn't the narrative about prosecution instead of defunding? Because the GOP isn't interested in justice. They are interested about stopping abortion. Do you think if another organization was getting the grants the outcry from the right would stop?

As far as prosecution I think you'll hear a lot more about that part of things after this latest video. On tape she lays out in detail how they are adjusting abortions to keep as much viable, sellable tissue there to be harvested. That is clearly illegal. Prior to this they claim that they're just covering expenses with fetal tissue sales. Accounting is magic and I'm sure they can show this somehow - I don't think that was prosecutable.

And I'll throw this out there. The first GOP candidate to say that Democrats are "getting donation reach arounds" will get my vote.

You danced around my question - why defund? Just prosecute and move on.

Why reward a company that has a culture of detestable, illegal actions with half a billion dollars of support? Prosecuting the company or a few executives won't achieve squat as far as company culture.

I'd think both would be appropriate.

Why do you keep calling it a company?

It is a 501©(4). I work for a 501©(3), which is pretty close and we very much try to make a profit. As can be seen from the videos they are also very profit driven. No reason not to consider them a company.

 

[Koya]

If we really believed that the intent to defund PP was not really (ANOTHER) attempt to limit the rights of women - disproportionately those who are poor (and located in red states) - perhaps the otherwise valid points of why PP over other providers would be worth discussing.

Unfortunately, you'd be a fool to think that PP is really the issue, rather than reproductive rights, women's rights and fetal rights (I don't mean that flippantly, fwiw).

 

[culdeus]

Has someone pointed out anything illegal yet? Still haven't seen anywhere any charges are forthcoming. Apparently 8? states are investigating and most are declining to bring charges.

What's illegal here?

 

[culdeus]

If we really believed that the intent to defund PP was not really (ANOTHER) attempt to limit the rights of women - disproportionately those who are poor (and located in red states) - perhaps the otherwise valid points of why PP over other providers would be worth discussing.

Unfortunately, you'd be a fool to think that PP is really the issue, rather than reproductive rights, women's rights and fetal rights (I don't mean that flippantly, fwiw).

Poor people shouldn't have sex. It's in the constitution.

 

[Amused to Death]

Has someone pointed out anything illegal yet? Still haven't seen anywhere any charges are forthcoming. Apparently 8? states are investigating and most are declining to bring charges.

What's illegal here?

Because it's not about justice, just amn agenda. If it was about the law they wouldn't need to edit their videos.But by all means, prosecute the criminal activity if found.

 

[shader]

Has someone pointed out anything illegal yet? Still haven't seen anywhere any charges are forthcoming. Apparently 8? states are investigating and most are declining to bring charges.

What's illegal here?

I'd be interested to know what's illegal too.

Although I feel they are building to something with these videos.

 

[shader]

Has someone pointed out anything illegal yet? Still haven't seen anywhere any charges are forthcoming. Apparently 8? states are investigating and most are declining to bring charges.

What's illegal here?

Because it's not about justice, just amn agenda. If it was about the law they wouldn't need to edit their videos.But by all means, prosecute the criminal activity if found.

Of course it's an agenda for most. There are many who disagree with the law and want it to change. Why is this surprising?

 

[shader]

Many websites seem to think that videos will emerge that show that babies are born alive, then murdered in a way that keeps the "specimen" intact. If that's what it's building to, then obviously that would be huge. But it may just all go away and the final videos may be nothing of significance.

 

[timschochet]

Many websites seem to think that videos will emerge that show that babies are born alive, then murdered in a way that keeps the "specimen" intact. If that's what it's building to, then obviously that would be huge. But it may just all go away and the final videos may be nothing of significance.

I believe this a total lie.

 

[Hang 10]

Many websites seem to think that videos will emerge that show that babies are born alive, then murdered in a way that keeps the "specimen" intact. If that's what it's building to, then obviously that would be huge. But it may just all go away and the final videos may be nothing of significance.

I believe this a total lie.

Like you'd have a problem with it either way.

 

[Kal El]

If we really believed that the intent to defund PP was not really (ANOTHER) attempt to limit the rights of women - disproportionately those who are poor (and located in red states) - perhaps the otherwise valid points of why PP over other providers would be worth discussing.

Unfortunately, you'd be a fool to think that PP is really the issue, rather than reproductive rights, women's rights and fetal rights (I don't mean that flippantly, fwiw).

Speaking for myself here, but why on Earth would we want to limit the rights of women? As a Christian, I firmly believe that all humans are equal, and to end the existence of another without a good reason is tantamount to murder. Let's not forget that the unborn child is genetically different than the mother, so that to me shows that it is a different organism despite sharing genetic material passed down to it.

I simply wish to have all children cared for, somehow. None of them deserve to die, and they don't deserve to be orphaned and forgotten, either. We as a society need to step up and care for these children.

 

[timschochet]

There have been two full investigations now and they have found no wrongdoing. Planned Parenthood doesn't sell body parts. They dont even perform abortions in most states.

There has been lie after lie after lie about this.

 

[culdeus]

Many websites seem to think that videos will emerge that show that babies are born alive, then murdered in a way that keeps the "specimen" intact. If that's what it's building to, then obviously that would be huge. But it may just all go away and the final videos may be nothing of significance.

Is that illegal? I'm still waiting for a law to be broken here. Seems at some point you would tread into Scott Peterson territory.

 

[Hang 10]

There have been two full investigations now and they have found no wrongdoing. Planned Parenthood doesn't sell body parts. They dont even perform abortions in most states.

There has been lie after lie after lie about this.

Many websites seem to think that videos will emerge that show that babies are born alive, then murdered in a way that keeps the "specimen" intact. If that's what it's building to, then obviously that would be huge. But it may just all go away and the final videos may be nothing of significance.

Is that illegal? I'm still waiting for a law to be broken here. Seems at some point you would tread into Scott Peterson territory.

Are you asking if it's illegal to kill a baby outside the womb?

 

[timschochet]

Many websites seem to think that videos will emerge that show that babies are born alive, then murdered in a way that keeps the "specimen" intact. If that's what it's building to, then obviously that would be huge. But it may just all go away and the final videos may be nothing of significance.

Is that illegal? I'm still waiting for a law to be broken here. Seems at some point you would tread into Scott Peterson territory.

Its illegal to sell fetal tissue. Sometimes women choose to voluntarily donate fetal tissue after abortions for the purpose of helping to cure disease. In that event, perhaps the doctors perform different than normal procedures; that may be what they're referring to. Planned Parenthood usually is not involved in this as they rarely have their own doctors performing abortions.

 

[timschochet]

Hang 10, since you believe what I wrote is crazy, I challenge you to refute it.

 

[tommyboy]

Has someone pointed out anything illegal yet? Still haven't seen anywhere any charges are forthcoming. Apparently 8? states are investigating and most are declining to bring charges.

What's illegal here?

Because it's not about justice, just amn agenda. If it was about the law they wouldn't need to edit their videos.But by all means, prosecute the criminal activity if found.

you do realize they release the entire video AND the edited video, don't you? They aren't trying to hide anything

 

[tommyboy]

There have been two full investigations now and they have found no wrongdoing. Planned Parenthood doesn't sell body parts. They dont even perform abortions in most states.

There has been lie after lie after lie about this.

they perform 330,000 abortions a year. who's lying now?

 

[Koya]

If we really believed that the intent to defund PP was not really (ANOTHER) attempt to limit the rights of women - disproportionately those who are poor (and located in red states) - perhaps the otherwise valid points of why PP over other providers would be worth discussing.

Unfortunately, you'd be a fool to think that PP is really the issue, rather than reproductive rights, women's rights and fetal rights (I don't mean that flippantly, fwiw).

Speaking for myself here, but why on Earth would we want to limit the rights of women? As a Christian, I firmly believe that all humans are equal, and to end the existence of another without a good reason is tantamount to murder. Let's not forget that the unborn child is genetically different than the mother, so that to me shows that it is a different organism despite sharing genetic material passed down to it.

I simply wish to have all children cared for, somehow. None of them deserve to die, and they don't deserve to be orphaned and forgotten, either. We as a society need to step up and care for these children.

I wholeheartedly respect your opinion on this matter.

That said, many DO want to limit the rights of women, and even those who, like you, have a basis in preserving the rights of a life you believe is indeed developed enough to have those rights, seem to be rather hypocritical in how they apply that (i.e. areas of wealth, including the families of those politicians looking to impose those restrictions), not to mention how many stories we hear of hard Right to Lifers getting their mistresses to have abortions.

Now, for those that truly believe as you do AND recognize that insistance of bringing that fetus into the world brings with it the responsibility for us, as a society to ensure that life is one worth living once it is born, I can respect.

Those who claim to care so much about a baby but then relegate it to poverty etc. - which seem to be a good many in the Republican party - disgust me with their callous and self serving position.

That said, my point here was not to discuss the merits of abortion, but rather the pathetic attempt to "defund" PP as opposed to their real goal of eliminating access to legal abortions.

 

[timschochet]

There have been two full investigations now and they have found no wrongdoing. Planned Parenthood doesn't sell body parts. They dont even perform abortions in most states.

There has been lie after lie after lie about this.

they perform 330,000 abortions a year. who's lying now?

Yes they do (although I'm not sure about your numbers, but I'll assume they're accurate.) However, in most states they refer the abortions to independent doctors. That's why their overall fees for abortions are so low (3% of all fees collected.)

 

[timschochet]

Here's some good facts on this issue from the Concord Monitor (Hang 10, since you think I'm crazy, please pay close attention):

http://www.concordmonitor.com/home/17967925-95/editorial-planned-parenthood-facts-fiction

Rallies held across the nation on Tuesday, including one in front of the State House in Concord, called for the government to stop sending taxpayer dollars to Planned Parenthood. The pretext was a series of online videos purporting to show how the group handles donations of fetal tissue.

But those demonstrations, and the furor about Planned Parenthood, are noise – static meant to distract.

Women can’t make such donations in New Hampshire to begin with. The group doesn’t offer them. With the Executive Council voting as soon as next week on Planned Parenthood of Northern New England’s contract with the state, it’s time to remember some basic facts.

∎ Abortion is legal throughout the country. Despite the best efforts of some state legislatures to roll back the right of women to terminate their pregnancies, it has been repeatedly sustained by courts on the local, state and federal levels. Nothing about these videos changes that.

∎ In some states, women who decide to have an abortion can choose to donate the tissue from their aborted fetuses for scientific research. This is also not illegal, and there is great demand among scientists for this tissue. It has the potential to save untold millions of lives by contributing to new treatments for diseases such as Parkinson’s and diabetes.


∎ It is a woman’s choice to donate the fetal tissue or not. This is not up to the doctors or to the organization employing the doctors.

∎ Planned Parenthood does not profit from the donations. It merely recoups the costs of collecting and sending it to researchers.

∎ Those producing the videos have an agenda. They lied about who they were, creating the fictional “Bio-Max” company. They edited the videos in a misleading way. There is no evidence that anyone connected with Planned Parenthood acted illegally.

∎ No federal money goes to subsidize abortions, except in certain limited cases such as rape, incest or danger to a woman’s life. The cost of the procedure is thus covered by private donations or by the women themselves.

∎ Planned Parenthood offers an array of reproductive and women’s health services, such as cancer and HPV screenings, and is often the only provider available for women in need.

∎ And, as stated earlier, New Hampshire is not a state where women are allowed to make fetal tissue donations.

There is nothing wrong with vigorous debate about abortion. That began before 1973’s Roe v. Wade, and won’t wrap up anytime soon. But the debate should be conducted without distortions.

Some activists, like those behind the videos, have no compunctions about twisting the actions of Planned Parenthood to fit a larger narrative about the evils of abortion providers. Others, such as former House speaker Bill O’Brien, have spread the decisively debunked claim that Planned Parenthood founder Margaret Sanger supported the Ku Klux Klan.

But opposing abortion does not mean abandoning the ability to reason or separate fact from fiction.

The footage released to this point shows nothing illegal, or even unethical. At worst, it shows officials speaking with a kind of black humor about an uncomfortable subject.

Thankfully, the state’s Executive Council has a chance to put this matter to rest next week. Given that fetal tissue isn’t even donated in New Hampshire, there’s nothing for councilors to investigate. The council should renew the state’s contract with Planned Parenthood clearly and decisively.

 

[Kal El]

If we really believed that the intent to defund PP was not really (ANOTHER) attempt to limit the rights of women - disproportionately those who are poor (and located in red states) - perhaps the otherwise valid points of why PP over other providers would be worth discussing.

Unfortunately, you'd be a fool to think that PP is really the issue, rather than reproductive rights, women's rights and fetal rights (I don't mean that flippantly, fwiw).

Speaking for myself here, but why on Earth would we want to limit the rights of women? As a Christian, I firmly believe that all humans are equal, and to end the existence of another without a good reason is tantamount to murder. Let's not forget that the unborn child is genetically different than the mother, so that to me shows that it is a different organism despite sharing genetic material passed down to it.

I simply wish to have all children cared for, somehow. None of them deserve to die, and they don't deserve to be orphaned and forgotten, either. We as a society need to step up and care for these children.

I wholeheartedly respect your opinion on this matter.

That said, many DO want to limit the rights of women, and even those who, like you, have a basis in preserving the rights of a life you believe is indeed developed enough to have those rights, seem to be rather hypocritical in how they apply that (i.e. areas of wealth, including the families of those politicians looking to impose those restrictions), not to mention how many stories we hear of hard Right to Lifers getting their mistresses to have abortions.

Now, for those that truly believe as you do AND recognize that insistance of bringing that fetus into the world brings with it the responsibility for us, as a society to ensure that life is one worth living once it is born, I can respect.

Those who claim to care so much about a baby but then relegate it to poverty etc. - which seem to be a good many in the Republican party - disgust me with their callous and self serving position.

That said, my point here was not to discuss the merits of abortion, but rather the pathetic attempt to "defund" PP as opposed to their real goal of eliminating access to legal abortions.

I can't speak of people getting their mistresses to have abortions, but that could be avoided if they didn't cheat on their spouses, so that's a whole other can of worms. As for political parties, I'm not a fan of either major party, since it seems all they do anymore is the second someone takes a stand on the issue, the other party immediately takes the opposite stance, without fail. It would be comical if it was fictional. I won't get into the particulars of each party, they have good ideas and bad ones (mostly bad), but politicians are a self-serving lot, always pandering to get votes.

That being said, I feel that we would be best served if everyone who actually calls themselves a Christian decided to actually help the poor instead of condemning those not like themselves. After all, some guy named Jesus said to "Love your neighbor." It's saddening and unsurprising that so many people refuse to do so.

 

[Hang 10]

Here's some good facts on this issue from the Concord Monitor (Hang 10, since you think I'm crazy, please pay close attention):

http://www.concordmonitor.com/home/17967925-95/editorial-planned-parenthood-facts-fiction

Rallies held across the nation on Tuesday, including one in front of the State House in Concord, called for the government to stop sending taxpayer dollars to Planned Parenthood. The pretext was a series of online videos purporting to show how the group handles donations of fetal tissue.

But those demonstrations, and the furor about Planned Parenthood, are noise – static meant to distract.

Women can’t make such donations in New Hampshire to begin with. The group doesn’t offer them. With the Executive Council voting as soon as next week on Planned Parenthood of Northern New England’s contract with the state, it’s time to remember some basic facts.

∎ Abortion is legal throughout the country. Despite the best efforts of some state legislatures to roll back the right of women to terminate their pregnancies, it has been repeatedly sustained by courts on the local, state and federal levels. Nothing about these videos changes that.

∎ In some states, women who decide to have an abortion can choose to donate the tissue from their aborted fetuses for scientific research. This is also not illegal, and there is great demand among scientists for this tissue. It has the potential to save untold millions of lives by contributing to new treatments for diseases such as Parkinson’s and diabetes.


∎ It is a woman’s choice to donate the fetal tissue or not. This is not up to the doctors or to the organization employing the doctors.

∎ Planned Parenthood does not profit from the donations. It merely recoups the costs of collecting and sending it to researchers.

∎ Those producing the videos have an agenda. They lied about who they were, creating the fictional “Bio-Max” company. They edited the videos in a misleading way. There is no evidence that anyone connected with Planned Parenthood acted illegally.

∎ No federal money goes to subsidize abortions, except in certain limited cases such as rape, incest or danger to a woman’s life. The cost of the procedure is thus covered by private donations or by the women themselves.

∎ Planned Parenthood offers an array of reproductive and women’s health services, such as cancer and HPV screenings, and is often the only provider available for women in need.

∎ And, as stated earlier, New Hampshire is not a state where women are allowed to make fetal tissue donations.

There is nothing wrong with vigorous debate about abortion. That began before 1973’s Roe v. Wade, and won’t wrap up anytime soon. But the debate should be conducted without distortions.

Some activists, like those behind the videos, have no compunctions about twisting the actions of Planned Parenthood to fit a larger narrative about the evils of abortion providers. Others, such as former House speaker Bill O’Brien, have spread the decisively debunked claim that Planned Parenthood founder Margaret Sanger supported the Ku Klux Klan.

But opposing abortion does not mean abandoning the ability to reason or separate fact from fiction.

The footage released to this point shows nothing illegal, or even unethical. At worst, it shows officials speaking with a kind of black humor about an uncomfortable subject.

Thankfully, the state’s Executive Council has a chance to put this matter to rest next week. Given that fetal tissue isn’t even donated in New Hampshire, there’s nothing for councilors to investigate. The council should renew the state’s contract with Planned Parenthood clearly and decisively.

That doesn't back up anything you said earlier. You got a link to those investigations?

 

[jonessed]

There have been two full investigations now and they have found no wrongdoing. Planned Parenthood doesn't sell body parts. They dont even perform abortions in most states.

There has been lie after lie after lie about this.

Many websites seem to think that videos will emerge that show that babies are born alive, then murdered in a way that keeps the "specimen" intact. If that's what it's building to, then obviously that would be huge. But it may just all go away and the final videos may be nothing of significance.

Is that illegal? I'm still waiting for a law to be broken here. Seems at some point you would tread into Scott Peterson territory.

Are you asking if it's illegal to kill a baby outside the womb?

One of the doctors already admitted this happens. I don't think they know the baby is going to be born alive, but they are forced to kill it once it is.

I thought that was appalling, but Tim said he supported it. Seems a bit over the top even for him, but there it is.

That's when I largely bowed out. People like that are either evil or so caught up in the politics they can't see anything else. You can't kill live babies outside the womb. That's appalling (and illegal).

They would have to have a specific example to prosecute and I doubt that is anywhere on film.

 

[Hang 10]

There have been two full investigations now and they have found no wrongdoing. Planned Parenthood doesn't sell body parts. They dont even perform abortions in most states.

There has been lie after lie after lie about this.

Many websites seem to think that videos will emerge that show that babies are born alive, then murdered in a way that keeps the "specimen" intact. If that's what it's building to, then obviously that would be huge. But it may just all go away and the final videos may be nothing of significance.

Is that illegal? I'm still waiting for a law to be broken here. Seems at some point you would tread into Scott Peterson territory.

Are you asking if it's illegal to kill a baby outside the womb?

One of the doctors already admitted this happens. I don't think they know the baby is going to be born alive, but they are forced to kill it once it is.

I thought that was appalling, but Tim said he supported it. Seems a bit over the top even for him, but there it is.

That's when I largely bowed out. People like that are either evil or so caught up in the politics they can't see anything else. You can't kill live babies outside the womb. That's appalling (and illegal).

They would have to have a specific example to prosecute and I doubt that is anywhere on film.

It's sad that we've come to point where someone even has to ask if that's illegal.

 

[Jayrok]

I can't speak of people getting their mistresses to have abortions, but that could be avoided if they didn't cheat on their spouses..

some guy named Jesus said to "Love your neighbor." It's saddening and unsurprising that so many people refuse to do so.

Isn't "love your neighbor" how the folks in your first sentence got into trouble to begin with?

 

[shader]

Many websites seem to think that videos will emerge that show that babies are born alive, then murdered in a way that keeps the "specimen" intact. If that's what it's building to, then obviously that would be huge. But it may just all go away and the final videos may be nothing of significance.

I believe this a total lie.

Just so we are clear, I wasn't lying about anything. I'm just saying that many websites believe the above things will come to light. I have no idea if it will or not.

But I would be interested to know if you'd have a problem with them killing born fetuses at, say, 12-18 weeks.

 

[timschochet]

Here's some good facts on this issue from the Concord Monitor (Hang 10, since you think I'm crazy, please pay close attention):

http://www.concordmonitor.com/home/17967925-95/editorial-planned-parenthood-facts-fiction

Rallies held across the nation on Tuesday, including one in front of the State House in Concord, called for the government to stop sending taxpayer dollars to Planned Parenthood. The pretext was a series of online videos purporting to show how the group handles donations of fetal tissue.

But those demonstrations, and the furor about Planned Parenthood, are noise – static meant to distract.

Women can’t make such donations in New Hampshire to begin with. The group doesn’t offer them. With the Executive Council voting as soon as next week on Planned Parenthood of Northern New England’s contract with the state, it’s time to remember some basic facts.

∎ Abortion is legal throughout the country. Despite the best efforts of some state legislatures to roll back the right of women to terminate their pregnancies, it has been repeatedly sustained by courts on the local, state and federal levels. Nothing about these videos changes that.

∎ In some states, women who decide to have an abortion can choose to donate the tissue from their aborted fetuses for scientific research. This is also not illegal, and there is great demand among scientists for this tissue. It has the potential to save untold millions of lives by contributing to new treatments for diseases such as Parkinson’s and diabetes.


∎ It is a woman’s choice to donate the fetal tissue or not. This is not up to the doctors or to the organization employing the doctors.

∎ Planned Parenthood does not profit from the donations. It merely recoups the costs of collecting and sending it to researchers.

∎ Those producing the videos have an agenda. They lied about who they were, creating the fictional “Bio-Max” company. They edited the videos in a misleading way. There is no evidence that anyone connected with Planned Parenthood acted illegally.

∎ No federal money goes to subsidize abortions, except in certain limited cases such as rape, incest or danger to a woman’s life. The cost of the procedure is thus covered by private donations or by the women themselves.

∎ Planned Parenthood offers an array of reproductive and women’s health services, such as cancer and HPV screenings, and is often the only provider available for women in need.

∎ And, as stated earlier, New Hampshire is not a state where women are allowed to make fetal tissue donations.

There is nothing wrong with vigorous debate about abortion. That began before 1973’s Roe v. Wade, and won’t wrap up anytime soon. But the debate should be conducted without distortions.

Some activists, like those behind the videos, have no compunctions about twisting the actions of Planned Parenthood to fit a larger narrative about the evils of abortion providers. Others, such as former House speaker Bill O’Brien, have spread the decisively debunked claim that Planned Parenthood founder Margaret Sanger supported the Ku Klux Klan.

But opposing abortion does not mean abandoning the ability to reason or separate fact from fiction.

The footage released to this point shows nothing illegal, or even unethical. At worst, it shows officials speaking with a kind of black humor about an uncomfortable subject.

Thankfully, the state’s Executive Council has a chance to put this matter to rest next week. Given that fetal tissue isn’t even donated in New Hampshire, there’s nothing for councilors to investigate. The council should renew the state’s contract with Planned Parenthood clearly and decisively.

That doesn't back up anything you said earlier. You got a link to those investigations?

The investigations were in the states of Indiana and Massachusetts. You're welcome to look them up.

 

[Hang 10]

Many websites seem to think that videos will emerge that show that babies are born alive, then murdered in a way that keeps the "specimen" intact. If that's what it's building to, then obviously that would be huge. But it may just all go away and the final videos may be nothing of significance.

I believe this a total lie.

Just so we are clear, I wasn't lying about anything. I'm just saying that many websites believe the above things will come to light. I have no idea if it will or not.

But I would be interested to know if you'd have a problem with them killing born fetuses at, say, 12-18 weeks.

Of course he wouldn't have a problem with it. Lest we all forget that he's willing to dismiss statutory rape if the child is sexy enough.

 

[timschochet]

Many websites seem to think that videos will emerge that show that babies are born alive, then murdered in a way that keeps the "specimen" intact. If that's what it's building to, then obviously that would be huge. But it may just all go away and the final videos may be nothing of significance.

I believe this a total lie.

Just so we are clear, I wasn't lying about anything. I'm just saying that many websites believe the above things will come to light. I have no idea if it will or not.

But I would be interested to know if you'd have a problem with them killing born fetuses at, say, 12-18 weeks.

You mean after they're alive? No longer a fetus? I would.

And jonessed misunderstood me earlier. My belief is that if an abortion is going to take place anyhow, I'm not concerned how it is to be done. If a mother wants to contribute the fetal tissue for research, more power to her. I'm not for killing live babies.

 

[timschochet]

Many websites seem to think that videos will emerge that show that babies are born alive, then murdered in a way that keeps the "specimen" intact. If that's what it's building to, then obviously that would be huge. But it may just all go away and the final videos may be nothing of significance.

I believe this a total lie.

Just so we are clear, I wasn't lying about anything. I'm just saying that many websites believe the above things will come to light. I have no idea if it will or not.

But I would be interested to know if you'd have a problem with them killing born fetuses at, say, 12-18 weeks.

Of course he wouldn't have a problem with it. Lest we all forget that he's willing to dismiss statutory rape if the child is sexy enough.

Another lie. Not to mention a subject not relevant to this one.

 

[Koya]

Amen Brother. I'll do you one better... how bout if everyone, regardless of their position on faith and religion decide to help the poor as you state?

As Gandhi states... If only your Christians were more like your Christ. Because this Jew certainly respects the teachings of Christ, which somehow have become almost at odds with the reachings of some of todays self-created "disciples"

 

[Hang 10]

Many websites seem to think that videos will emerge that show that babies are born alive, then murdered in a way that keeps the "specimen" intact. If that's what it's building to, then obviously that would be huge. But it may just all go away and the final videos may be nothing of significance.

I believe this a total lie.

Just so we are clear, I wasn't lying about anything. I'm just saying that many websites believe the above things will come to light. I have no idea if it will or not.

But I would be interested to know if you'd have a problem with them killing born fetuses at, say, 12-18 weeks.

Of course he wouldn't have a problem with it. Lest we all forget that he's willing to dismiss statutory rape if the child is sexy enough.

Another lie. Not to mention a subject not relevant to this one.

It's absolutely not and it's relevant to your moral compass.

 

[joffer]

Many websites seem to think that videos will emerge that show that babies are born alive, then murdered in a way that keeps the "specimen" intact. If that's what it's building to, then obviously that would be huge. But it may just all go away and the final videos may be nothing of significance.

I believe this a total lie.

Just so we are clear, I wasn't lying about anything. I'm just saying that many websites believe the above things will come to light. I have no idea if it will or not.

which websites?

 

[timschochet]

I'm not going to get into the Polanski stuff here- nobody wants to hear it. But you completely misrepresented what I wrote about that- (you have several times now.) And you have no idea what my moral compass is.

 

[jonessed]

Amen Brother. I'll do you one better... how bout if everyone, regardless of their position on faith and religion decide to help the poor as you state?

As Gandhi states... If only your Christians were more like your Christ. Because this Jew certainly respects the teachings of Christ, which somehow have become almost at odds with the reachings of some of todays self-created "disciples"

 

[Hang 10]

I'm not going to get into the Polanski stuff here- nobody wants to hear it. But you completely misrepresented what I wrote about that- (you have several times now.) And you have no idea what my moral compass is.

It's best that you don't because there won't be a single person here that would back you up.

 

[Koya]

Amen Brother. I'll do you one better... how bout if everyone, regardless of their position on faith and religion decide to help the poor as you state?

As Gandhi states... If only your Christians were more like your Christ. Because this Jew certainly respects the teachings of Christ, which somehow have become almost at odds with the reachings of some of todays self-created "disciples"

Not sure the cynical / satirical angle here.

 

[jonessed]

Amen Brother. I'll do you one better... how bout if everyone, regardless of their position on faith and religion decide to help the poor as you state?

As Gandhi states... If only your Christians were more like your Christ. Because this Jew certainly respects the teachings of Christ, which somehow have become almost at odds with the reachings of some of todays self-created "disciples"

Not sure the cynical / satirical angle here.

The first paragraph talks about religions coming together to help the poor and then the second uses a quote that proclaims Jewish superiority over Christians in the matter.

Even if we ignore the gross generalization, it's still a humorous contrast.

 

[Fennis]

its just more crony capitalism, and both sides do it, a lot. the difference i guess is they're in teh business of ripping babies apart and selling the organs and limbs. But hey, if you want a whole baby we can do that too! I need a lamborghini.

Weren't you in this thread earlier pretending you were pro choice?

I am pro choice, but im also anti PP based on their actions and see no reason why my tax dollars should subsidize them. Theyll figure out a way to get the money

Its not the funding issue, its that most people who favor abortion rights don't call abortions 'ripping babies apart', but I guess there is always an exception.

Thats what abortion is, dude.

See its horrible, but even so id prefer it stay legal.

I can't imagine a scenario where I would think babies being ripped apart should be legal.

 

[General Malaise]

I'm not going to get into the Polanski stuff here- nobody wants to hear it. But you completely misrepresented what I wrote about that- (you have several times now.) And you have no idea what my moral compass is.

It's best that you don't because there won't be a single person here that would back you up.

How do you know that?

 

[shader]

Many websites seem to think that videos will emerge that show that babies are born alive, then murdered in a way that keeps the "specimen" intact. If that's what it's building to, then obviously that would be huge. But it may just all go away and the final videos may be nothing of significance.

I believe this a total lie.

Just so we are clear, I wasn't lying about anything. I'm just saying that many websites believe the above things will come to light. I have no idea if it will or not.

which websites?

It really doesn't matter. It's opinions. The point is that many people think that's where the videos are headed. Since I can't predict the future, nor can anyone, it's all conjecture at this point.

 

[shader]

its just more crony capitalism, and both sides do it, a lot. the difference i guess is they're in teh business of ripping babies apart and selling the organs and limbs. But hey, if you want a whole baby we can do that too! I need a lamborghini.

Weren't you in this thread earlier pretending you were pro choice?

I am pro choice, but im also anti PP based on their actions and see no reason why my tax dollars should subsidize them. Theyll figure out a way to get the money

Its not the funding issue, its that most people who favor abortion rights don't call abortions 'ripping babies apart', but I guess there is always an exception.

Thats what abortion is, dude.

See its horrible, but even so id prefer it stay legal.

I can't imagine a scenario where I would think babies being ripped apart should be legal.

We've been through this 100 times in this thread. We know you don't think they are babies that are being killed. They are just tubs of cellular goo that will magically turn into babies somewhere around the 20 week mark. Of course some differ on their opinion of the word baby, instead using the intake of oxygen into the lungs as the magical transforming point from lifeless, insignificant fetus to baby.

 

[Koya]

Amen Brother. I'll do you one better... how bout if everyone, regardless of their position on faith and religion decide to help the poor as you state?

As Gandhi states... If only your Christians were more like your Christ. Because this Jew certainly respects the teachings of Christ, which somehow have become almost at odds with the reachings of some of todays self-created "disciples"

Not sure the cynical / satirical angle here.

The first paragraph talks about religions coming together to help the poor and then the second uses a quote that proclaims Jewish superiority over Christians in the matter.

Even if we ignore the gross generalization, it's still a humorous contrast.

What? Where is there anything about "Jewish superiority"? Seriously, what are you reading into my comments. I was stating that while it is not MY religion, Christ's teachings resonate with me.

Second, I said nothing about "religions coming together" - I stated that regardless of one's religion, you'd hope they share those basic human beliefs.

Either you totally misread / misunderstood or are really reading into things for some reason because what you said I said is not at all the case.