Planned Parenthood leaked video (1 Viewer)

[Kal El]

People are surprised by this? Really? I mean, if someone is supportive of murdering unborn children why would this shock anyone?

"Okay, so I'm fine with murdering babies, BUT I DRAW THE LINE AT SELLING THE BODY PARTS!"

why do people say abortion is murdering babies, no one actually thinks that. At least you and the OP don't think it is murder.

Because abortion ends a life. I heard my first child's heartbeat at about 7 weeks old, and I immediately knew that this was a new life being formed.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Some people need to read the Snopes link or watch the unedited video.

I quoted it above, the conclusion was "Undetermined" before the release of the second video.

Snopes links to this article:

The group’s second statement on the video, which was provided to The Hill on Tuesday, confirms it is Deborah Nucatela, senior director of medical services, who appears in the video, but fiercely disputes that the conversation was about selling body parts.

“Deborah Nucatela was speculating on the range of reimbursement that patients can receive after stating they wish to donate any tissue after a procedure,” the organization wrote in a report prepared by its PR firm.

So we're paying the mothers? The explanation sounds worse than the allegation.

I'm also a little confused as to why a fetus has body parts. According to Roe, when does a fetus become human? These aren't human, but we can use the tissue and body parts for human research?

yeah, they are still biological.

Ok good, biologically speaking, they are human.

So is your ear wax.

Ear wax is not a separate creature, it's a secretion formed by your own body in an effort to protect your ears.

But it is also not a person and is a biological derivative of the host.

A human fetus does contain DNA from the mother, but it also contains DNA from the father, and when combined, creates a separate creature, albeit one that must rely on the mother for growth for the first 9+ months of its existence.

Yep. Its not its own life.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

BST would you then call it a "creature" of some sort?

No. Its part of the host.

Ok good, so like a parasite or tick or flea or pilot fish? We've established that it's human, so is it correct to say if it has a host it's basically a human parasite? Or is it more like a biologically human wart with eyes, arms, legs, tissue, all the stuff we're selling? Maybe it's more like one of those defunct conjoined twins, we can just lop those off, right? Just trying to define terms here.

 

[Fennis]

People are surprised by this? Really? I mean, if someone is supportive of murdering unborn children why would this shock anyone?

"Okay, so I'm fine with murdering babies, BUT I DRAW THE LINE AT SELLING THE BODY PARTS!"

why do people say abortion is murdering babies, no one actually thinks that. At least you and the OP don't think it is murder.

Because abortion ends a life. I heard my first child's heartbeat at about 7 weeks old, and I immediately knew that this was a new life being formed.

so why aren't you blowing up abortion clinics? If one year old babies were being taken to a clinic to be murdered, you better believe I would be out there shooting mothers and doctors who were systematically killing babies.

 

[[icon]]

It is. I forget the research, but there are a large percentage of women who have an abortion who regret their decision later in life, and many seek counseling.

99% of women who had abortions say they made the right decision.

I guess 1% could be considered a large percentage in some contexts

 

[Kal El]

Some people need to read the Snopes link or watch the unedited video.

I quoted it above, the conclusion was "Undetermined" before the release of the second video.

Snopes links to this article:

The group’s second statement on the video, which was provided to The Hill on Tuesday, confirms it is Deborah Nucatela, senior director of medical services, who appears in the video, but fiercely disputes that the conversation was about selling body parts.

“Deborah Nucatela was speculating on the range of reimbursement that patients can receive after stating they wish to donate any tissue after a procedure,” the organization wrote in a report prepared by its PR firm.

So we're paying the mothers? The explanation sounds worse than the allegation.

I'm also a little confused as to why a fetus has body parts. According to Roe, when does a fetus become human? These aren't human, but we can use the tissue and body parts for human research?

yeah, they are still biological.

Ok good, biologically speaking, they are human.

So is your ear wax.

Ear wax is not a separate creature, it's a secretion formed by your own body in an effort to protect your ears.

But it is also not a person and is a biological derivative of the host.

A human fetus does contain DNA from the mother, but it also contains DNA from the father, and when combined, creates a separate creature, albeit one that must rely on the mother for growth for the first 9+ months of its existence.

Yep. Its not its own life.

So by that logic, pretty much any child under the age of about 7 is not its own life, because they cannot sustain their own existence without help, from either their parents or another guardian.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Some people need to read the Snopes link or watch the unedited video.

I quoted it above, the conclusion was "Undetermined" before the release of the second video.

Snopes links to this article:

The group’s second statement on the video, which was provided to The Hill on Tuesday, confirms it is Deborah Nucatela, senior director of medical services, who appears in the video, but fiercely disputes that the conversation was about selling body parts.

“Deborah Nucatela was speculating on the range of reimbursement that patients can receive after stating they wish to donate any tissue after a procedure,” the organization wrote in a report prepared by its PR firm.

So we're paying the mothers? The explanation sounds worse than the allegation.

I'm also a little confused as to why a fetus has body parts. According to Roe, when does a fetus become human? These aren't human, but we can use the tissue and body parts for human research?

yeah, they are still biological.

Ok good, biologically speaking, they are human.

So is your ear wax.

Ear wax is not a separate creature, it's a secretion formed by your own body in an effort to protect your ears.

It helps their argument when the dehumanize unborn babies. They call it "intact tissue" when they are talking about a fully formed baby. It's sick.

Then get them legally recognized as a human person with all the rights of one. And quit the total bull#### side arguments where you force your sensibilities on others.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

"Not its own life" also implies "shared life". That's an interesting point. Is it shared life then?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

So by that logic, pretty much any child under the age of about 7 is not its own life, because they cannot sustain their own existence without help, from either their parents or another guardian.

No I totally effing disagree.

 

[[icon]]

I for one am glad we're having this debate....

THIS will be the thread where the ProLife/ProChoice crowds will find common ground, and unite under one viewpoint!!!!11!!


I CAN FEEL IT IN MY BONES

 

[Kal El]

People are surprised by this? Really? I mean, if someone is supportive of murdering unborn children why would this shock anyone?

"Okay, so I'm fine with murdering babies, BUT I DRAW THE LINE AT SELLING THE BODY PARTS!"

why do people say abortion is murdering babies, no one actually thinks that. At least you and the OP don't think it is murder.

Because abortion ends a life. I heard my first child's heartbeat at about 7 weeks old, and I immediately knew that this was a new life being formed.

so why aren't you blowing up abortion clinics? If one year old babies were being taken to a clinic to be murdered, you better believe I would be out there shooting mothers and doctors who were systematically killing babies.

It's better to just close the clinics down and provide counseling for expectant mothers to provide adoption services.

 

[timschochet]

You guys are all talking over each other.

Look, Ka El, Hang 10, and the rest of you here who believe that abortion is the equivalent of murder. You're never going to convince us pro-choice people that this is so. And we're never going to convince you guys that it isn't murder. So we can dance around this subject and try and define it further, but what's the point?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

No it is not better. Its makes matters worse.

 

[Kal El]

So by that logic, pretty much any child under the age of about 7 is not its own life, because they cannot sustain their own existence without help, from either their parents or another guardian.

No I totally effing disagree.

So where is the line drawn? When a heartbeat, one of the classic signs of life in humans, is detected? Or how about when brainwaves are detected?

 

[Hang 10]

Some people need to read the Snopes link or watch the unedited video.

I quoted it above, the conclusion was "Undetermined" before the release of the second video.

Snopes links to this article:

The group’s second statement on the video, which was provided to The Hill on Tuesday, confirms it is Deborah Nucatela, senior director of medical services, who appears in the video, but fiercely disputes that the conversation was about selling body parts.

“Deborah Nucatela was speculating on the range of reimbursement that patients can receive after stating they wish to donate any tissue after a procedure,” the organization wrote in a report prepared by its PR firm.

So we're paying the mothers? The explanation sounds worse than the allegation.

I'm also a little confused as to why a fetus has body parts. According to Roe, when does a fetus become human? These aren't human, but we can use the tissue and body parts for human research?

yeah, they are still biological.

Ok good, biologically speaking, they are human.

So is your ear wax.

Ear wax is not a separate creature, it's a secretion formed by your own body in an effort to protect your ears.

It helps their argument when the dehumanize unborn babies. They call it "intact tissue" when they are talking about a fully formed baby. It's sick.

Then get them legally recognized as a human person with all the rights of one. And quit the total bull#### side arguments where you force your sensibilities on others.

Sensibilities? More like science. Seriously, at what point do you consider an unborn baby a life? 1st trimester? 2nd trimester? 3rd trimester? Or you crazy enough to say out of the womb?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Look, Ka El, Hang 10, and the rest of you here who believe that abortion is the equivalent of murder.

Thus...

Then get them legally recognized as a human person with all the rights of one. And quit the total bull#### side arguments where you force your sensibilities on others.

 

[[icon]]

You guys are all talking over each other.

Look, Ka El, Hang 10, and the rest of you here who believe that abortion is the equivalent of murder. You're never going to convince us pro-choice people that this is so. And we're never going to convince you guys that it isn't murder. So we can dance around this subject and try and define it further, but what's the point?

BECAUSE JESUS TELLS THEM TO BE KIND AND LOVE EVERYONE.... UNLESS THEY HAVE DIFFERENT VIEWS, THEN THEY MUST FORCE THIER VIEWS ON THEM AND ASSIMILATE THEM INTO THE CULT!

It's in the handbook.

 

[cstu]

I have no problem with it.

If some good (scientific discovery) can come from it then that's better than just putting it in an incinerator.

 

[Hang 10]

You guys are all talking over each other.

Look, Ka El, Hang 10, and the rest of you here who believe that abortion is the equivalent of murder. You're never going to convince us pro-choice people that this is so. And we're never going to convince you guys that it isn't murder. So we can dance around this subject and try and define it further, but what's the point?

True. I don't even know why I bother. That video and planned parenthood sicken me though. The real issue is that our tax dollars fund these creeps.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Boot I agree that sounds like one of my FF league negotiations.

 

[acapella]

You have to be a sick, heartless, mother####er to continue to praise PP after these videos.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Then get them legally recognized as a human person with all the rights of one. And quit the total bull#### side arguments where you force your sensibilities on others.

Sensibilities? More like science. Seriously, at what point do you consider an unborn baby a life? 1st trimester? 2nd trimester? 3rd trimester? Or you crazy enough to say out of the womb?

Currently they have all the rights at birth.

 

[[icon]]

I locked my keys in my car outside of an abortion clinic the other night.

It turns out they get really pissed when you go in and ask them for a coat hanger.

 

[cstu]

Sensibilities? More like science. Seriously, at what point do you consider an unborn baby a life? 1st trimester? 2nd trimester? 3rd trimester? Or you crazy enough to say out of the womb?

When it can live outside of a woman's body.

 

[Hang 10]

I have no problem with it.

If some good (scientific discovery) can come from it then that's better than just putting it in an incinerator.

You quoting Joseph Mengele?

 

[Fennis]

You have to be a sick, heartless, mother####er to continue to praise PP after these videos.

God Bless Planned Parenthood!

 

[[icon]]

This pregnant girl I know has made a separate Facebook account just for her unborn child.

It's beginning to annoy me so much that I've decided to set up an account as a coat hanger, add the unborn child and poke them.

 

[Kal El]

Sensibilities? More like science. Seriously, at what point do you consider an unborn baby a life? 1st trimester? 2nd trimester? 3rd trimester? Or you crazy enough to say out of the womb?

When it can live outside of a woman's body.

With medical technology, that's come to about 22 weeks after the beginning of pregnancy.

 

[Hang 10]

Then get them legally recognized as a human person with all the rights of one. And quit the total bull#### side arguments where you force your sensibilities on others.

Sensibilities? More like science. Seriously, at what point do you consider an unborn baby a life? 1st trimester? 2nd trimester? 3rd trimester? Or you crazy enough to say out of the womb?

Currently they have all the rights at birth.

Aren't their laws against late term abortions?

 

[timschochet]

You guys are all talking over each other.

Look, Ka El, Hang 10, and the rest of you here who believe that abortion is the equivalent of murder. You're never going to convince us pro-choice people that this is so. And we're never going to convince you guys that it isn't murder. So we can dance around this subject and try and define it further, but what's the point?

True. I don't even know why I bother. That video and planned parenthood sicken me though. The real issue is that our tax dollars fund these creeps.

Yes they do. To a certain extent- my understanding is that no taxpayer money actually goes to abortion services.

In order to change this, you need to elect more people who agree with your point of view and who once in office will attempt to defund Planned Parenthood. Those of us who disagree with you on this will fight you, of course.

 

[Fennis]

And that's how a bill becomes a law!

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Aren't their laws against late term abortions?

And if you got them full rights you would have laws against all abortions. You say they are humans, then treat them as such.

Humans (and even the Bible) are against you on such matters though.

 

[Kal El]

And if you got them full rights you would have laws against all abortions. You say they are humans, then treat them as such.

Humans (and even the Bible) are against you on such matters though.

How so?

 

[cstu]

People are surprised by this? Really? I mean, if someone is supportive of murdering unborn children why would this shock anyone?

"Okay, so I'm fine with murdering babies, BUT I DRAW THE LINE AT SELLING THE BODY PARTS!"

why do people say abortion is murdering babies, no one actually thinks that. At least you and the OP don't think it is murder.

Because abortion ends a life. I heard my first child's heartbeat at about 7 weeks old, and I immediately knew that this was a new life being formed.

so why aren't you blowing up abortion clinics? If one year old babies were being taken to a clinic to be murdered, you better believe I would be out there shooting mothers and doctors who were systematically killing babies.

Pretty clear to me that they either don't really believe it's murder or simply don't care enough to do anything about it.

 

[[icon]]

Sensibilities? More like science. Seriously, at what point do you consider an unborn baby a life? 1st trimester? 2nd trimester? 3rd trimester? Or you crazy enough to say out of the womb?

When it can live outside of a woman's body.

With medical technology, that's come to about 22 weeks after the beginning of pregnancy.

Cool... no 3rd trimester abortions, then.

BOOM!

I TOLD YOU GUYS WE"D GET THIS SOLVED TODAY!

 

[cstu]

I have no problem with it.

If some good (scientific discovery) can come from it then that's better than just putting it in an incinerator.

You quoting Joseph Mengele?

Did people come to Mengele willingly and offer to donate their tissue?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

And if you got them full rights you would have laws against all abortions. You say they are humans, then treat them as such.

Humans (and even the Bible) are against you on such matters though.

How so?

Which part?

 

[Kal El]

And if you got them full rights you would have laws against all abortions. You say they are humans, then treat them as such.

Humans (and even the Bible) are against you on such matters though.

How so?

Which part?

The part about the Bible being against laws stopping abortions.

 

[Hang 10]

Aren't their laws against late term abortions?

And if you got them full rights you would have laws against all abortions. You say they are humans, then treat them as such.

Humans (and even the Bible) are against you on such matters though.

I guess you must agree with every law on the books if citing one is proof of anything.

 

[(HULK)]

You guys are all talking over each other.

Look, Ka El, Hang 10, and the rest of you here who believe that abortion is the equivalent of murder. You're never going to convince us pro-choice people that this is so. And we're never going to convince you guys that it isn't murder. So we can dance around this subject and try and define it further, but what's the point?

BECAUSE JESUS TELLS THEM TO BE KIND AND LOVE EVERYONE.... UNLESS THEY HAVE DIFFERENT VIEWS, THEN THEY MUST FORCE THIER VIEWS ON THEM AND ASSIMILATE THEM INTO THE CULT!

It's in the handbook.

I'm an atheist and I think abortion is a social ill.

 

[[icon]]

And if you got them full rights you would have laws against all abortions. You say they are humans, then treat them as such.

Humans (and even the Bible) are against you on such matters though.

How so?

Which part?

The part about the Bible being against laws stopping abortions.

Congrats on your faith. Sorry we don't all share it. Might want to rethink projecting it on those who don't.

Tell me about the part of the bible that talks about being allowed to beat your kids.... as long as you don't kill them.

Withhold not chastisement from a boy; if you beat him with a rod he will not die. Beat him with the rod, and you will save him from the nether world. (Proverbs 23:13-14 NAB)

 

[BigSteelThrill]

And if you got them full rights you would have laws against all abortions. You say they are humans, then treat them as such.

Humans (and even the Bible) are against you on such matters though.

How so?

Which part?

The part about the Bible being against laws stopping abortions.

I meant how the Bible treats a lost/killed unborn... and one that the parents didn't even want to lose.

i.e. Not considered the same as a human life.

(and please dont now go and quote it and add some wack religious spin to it. )

 

[Kal El]

And if you got them full rights you would have laws against all abortions. You say they are humans, then treat them as such.

Humans (and even the Bible) are against you on such matters though.

How so?

Which part?

The part about the Bible being against laws stopping abortions.

I meant how the Bible treats a lost/killed unborn... and one that the parents didn't even want to lose.

i.e. Not considered the same as a human life.

(and please dont now go and quote it and add some wack religious spin to it. )

How does the Bible treat such an unborn child?

 

[Kal El]

And if you got them full rights you would have laws against all abortions. You say they are humans, then treat them as such.

Humans (and even the Bible) are against you on such matters though.

How so?

Which part?

The part about the Bible being against laws stopping abortions.

Congrats on your faith. Sorry we don't all share it. Might want to rethink projecting it on those who don't.

Tell me about the part of the bible that talks about being allowed to beat your wife.

Where is that at? Are you sure you're not quoting the Quran?

 

[[icon]]

Proof even God hates illegitimate babies:

So it is with a woman who leaves her husband and presents him with an heir by another man. For first of all, she has disobeyed the law of the Most High; second, she has committed an offense against her husband; and third, through her fornication she has committed adultery and brought forth children by another man. She herself will be brought before the assembly, and her punishment will extend to her children. Her children will not take root, and her branches will not bear fruit.

(Sirach 23:22-25 NRSV)

 

[BigSteelThrill]

And if you got them full rights you would have laws against all abortions. You say they are humans, then treat them as such.

Humans (and even the Bible) are against you on such matters though.

How so?

Which part?

The part about the Bible being against laws stopping abortions.

I meant how the Bible treats a lost/killed unborn... and one that the parents didn't even want to lose.

i.e. Not considered the same as a human life.

(and please dont now go and quote it and add some wack religious spin to it. )

How does the Bible treat such an unborn child?

Take it to the local judges for a possible fine... the same as livestock or property.

Not an eye-for-eye, not the murder/killing of a person.

 

[Hang 10]

And if you got them full rights you would have laws against all abortions. You say they are humans, then treat them as such.

Humans (and even the Bible) are against you on such matters though.

How so?

Which part?

The part about the Bible being against laws stopping abortions.

Congrats on your faith. Sorry we don't all share it. Might want to rethink projecting it on those who don't.

Tell me about the part of the bible that talks about being allowed to beat your kids.... as long as you don't kill them.

Withhold not chastisement from a boy; if you beat him with a rod he will not die. Beat him with the rod, and you will save him from the nether world. (Proverbs 23:13-14 NAB)

Yeah, corporal punishment is really applicable here. Awesome argument.

 

[[icon]]

You better not kill your child... how else would you get to beat some sense into him?! - God

"Folly is close to the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him. (Proverbs 22:15 NAB)"

 

[cstu]

My personal feeling on abortion is that the ban should be before 22 weeks - I'd feel more comfortable setting the limit at 12 weeks in non-rape/health situations. Almost 90% of abortions are done before that time anyway.

 

[Kal El]

Proof even God hates illegitimate babies:

So it is with a woman who leaves her husband and presents him with an heir by another man. For first of all, she has disobeyed the law of the Most High; second, she has committed an offense against her husband; and third, through her fornication she has committed adultery and brought forth children by another man. She herself will be brought before the assembly, and her punishment will extend to her children. Her children will not take root, and her branches will not bear fruit.

(Sirach 23:22-25 NRSV)

Not part of the Bible I have, so for all we know, it could have been written by a guy who got cuckolded.