Player Spotlight: Calvin Johnson (1 Viewer)

[Bills_Fan11]

I can't believe I've seen the term "overrated" used twice in this thread. For the sake of argument lets say he did benefit from the positive side of variance in the TD department and they had to throw a lot cause they were behind (though I think the latter is overrated).

With AJ (who I like and defended against skeptics last year) you know his ceiling is basically last year, or lower than a stud entering his 3rd year. Maybe Megatron's floor is slightly lower given Stafford but I don't see it as "riverboat gambling" low given the clowns he had to put up with last year. If you prefer AJ that's cool but it's crazy to not put them at least in the same tier imo.

Really? Maybe his catches and yardage are about his ceiling, but i could easily see him catching more TD's.I think CJ hit his ceiling for TD's last year, at least until Stafford matures into a top QB. It seems unlikely Stafford throws more than 15-17 TD's this year, so for CJ to match his TD total last year, he would need to catch 70+% of his teams TD passes. Sure his yardage might go up, but i find it unlikely he improves on his 17.1 YPC from last year, so he will have to catch quite a few more passes to even do that.

Houston combined to throw almost 4500 yards last year, but only 21 TD passes. I think it is likely the TD passes go up this year in Houston. Even if they dont, Andre would only need to catch 50% of his teams TD passes to catch for double digit TD's.

Unless someone has a good argument to convince me that CJ is better at catching TD's than AJ, i think it is just as likely for AJ to catch 65% of Houstons TD's and Calvin to catch 30% of Detroits in 2009.

Ya know you're probably right - as a poker player I usually emphasize TD variance and probably underestimated it with respect to CJ last year.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

Only time will tell, but Detroit has invested in their atrocious Defense with the signings of Pro-Bowl LB Julian Peterson, CB Phillip Buchanon, DT Grady Jackson. Drafted what looks to be a very good young Safety in Louis Delmas, and a young LB in DeAndre Levy, not to mention a monster blocking and hands catching TE in Brandon Pettigrew, and that Stafford guy.The D should be able to slow down some opposing offenses and perhaps force a couple of punts. The Offense adds a key weapon in Pettigrew immediately and perhaps their QB of the future in Stafford who sounds to be as good or perhaps better than advertised so far.I think Detroit has improved BOTH sides of the ball for a change. They might win 2-3 games this year with Calvin leading the charge.85 receptions, 1400 yards and 12 Td's sounds about right, if Stafford doesn't "pull a 2008 Matt Ryan"...otherwise we might be looking at 95 rec, 1550 yards and 18 Td's.

Matt Ryan threw 16 TD passes last year, so Stafford would have to do better than Ryan. Even if Stafford managed to throw 18 TD passes, i doubt they all go to CJ. I hope i am wrong, but i think it is highly unlikely CJ catches double digit TD's in 2009.

I'll be surprised if Calvin gets more than 10 td's.

How would you actually be surprised if Calvin Johnson in his 3rd year caught more than 10 TD's when he caught 12 in his 2nd year on an 0-16 team with Orlovsky and Caulpepper (who was at home playing video games the first half of the season). You must be fun to shop for at Christmas if you get surprised that easy.

I think the overriding concern with Calvin has to be the amount of points he put up in "garbage time" last year. I don't have the exact numbers but IIRC it was a rather high amount. I know it's been discussed in other Calvin threads prior to this.

I personally feel it's the Lions patheticness that actually will hold this guy back from putting up monster numbers this upcoming season. You can chalk up 10 TD's and 1200 yards just because the guy is so dominant. But if the Lions developed a young talented QB and figured out how to block on the line, this guy could put up some beastly numbers in a couple years.

 

[puckalicious]

How much less "garbage time" are you thinking Detroit will have? They are still going to stink.

I don't really know, but it does seem that nearly everyone thinks they are going to be a good deal more competitive than they were last year.

I don't quite get this line of thinking of "garbage time". Is the logic here that he got most of his catches in "garbage time" therefore if the Lions improve and have less "garbage time" then Calvin will have less catches? So does this mean he will then not be used when the team is competitive? Don't confuse getting a lot of catches when the team is being blown out to mean he won't get a lot when they are still in the game.

 

[Steelfan7]

95-1450-13

 

[cmv5]

From reading through this thread it seems that a lot of people have not learned anything from watching Larry Fitzgerald. A wide receiver with all-world talent with an incredible work ethic can surmount a less than ideal QB. Besides injuries, Fitzgerald has been a consistent beast, regardless of his quarterback. Fitzgerald put up 6 for 85 and a touch even with Navarre as his QB.

Calvin Johnson has shown he is a physical freak and is known for his work ethic as well. We watched him overcome a below average coach and coordinator. He played throughout the season with a washed-up Kitna, an out of shape Culpepper, and an I have no business starting Dan Orlovsky as his QB. Throughout that, the constant was Calvin Johnson with an impressive level of consistency. Many of the touchdowns he had would have only been routine first downs in other wide receivers hands as he made something out of nothing on many, many plays.

This year, he may not be 2/3rds of the offense but I have no doubt that the Lions will be a more effective offense in the hands of Scott Linehan, a coordinator who knows how to use his best weapons, especially in the red zone. Chris Chambers put up 82 receptions for 1118 yards and 11 touchdowns in Linehan's offense with mostly Frerotte as his QB. Think about that one for a minute. Culpepper appears to be in good shape and at the very least is very familiar with the offense and if he fails, Stafford may have some errors here and there but I have no doubt that he can outperform Orlovsky right now.

I noticed people are locking down on this 2/3rds of the offensive touchdowns thing. So maybe he won't be 2/3rds of a p'zone again but I could see him being 1/2 of a medium cheese and pepperoni and he still only had 78 receptions last year. In addition, I see many areas of improvement, similar to Fitzgerald's natural improvement progression. Calvin could improve his dropsies, route running, getting off the jam, etc. With all that in mind, I predict:

85 receptions 1400 yards and 15 touchdowns. Ignore him again at your own risk.

 

[Burning Sensation]

From reading through this thread it seems that a lot of people have not learned anything from watching Larry Fitzgerald. A wide receiver with all-world talent with an incredible work ethic can surmount a less than ideal QB. Besides injuries, Fitzgerald has been a consistent beast, regardless of his quarterback. Fitzgerald put up 6 for 85 and a touch even with Navarre as his QB.

Calvin Johnson has shown he is a physical freak and is known for his work ethic as well. We watched him overcome a below average coach and coordinator. He played throughout the season with a washed-up Kitna, an out of shape Culpepper, and an I have no business starting Dan Orlovsky as his QB. Throughout that, the constant was Calvin Johnson with an impressive level of consistency. Many of the touchdowns he had would have only been routine first downs in other wide receivers hands as he made something out of nothing on many, many plays.

This year, he may not be 2/3rds of the offense but I have no doubt that the Lions will be a more effective offense in the hands of Scott Linehan, a coordinator who knows how to use his best weapons, especially in the red zone. Chris Chambers put up 82 receptions for 1118 yards and 11 touchdowns in Linehan's offense with mostly Frerotte as his QB. Think about that one for a minute. Culpepper appears to be in good shape and at the very least is very familiar with the offense and if he fails, Stafford may have some errors here and there but I have no doubt that he can outperform Orlovsky right now.

I noticed people are locking down on this 2/3rds of the offensive touchdowns thing. So maybe he won't be 2/3rds of a p'zone again but I could see him being 1/2 of a medium cheese and pepperoni and he still only had 78 receptions last year. In addition, I see many areas of improvement, similar to Fitzgerald's natural improvement progression. Calvin could improve his dropsies, route running, getting off the jam, etc. With all that in mind, I predict:

85 receptions 1400 yards and 15 touchdowns. Ignore him again at your own risk.

So you think Detroit will throw 30 TD's this year?

 

[cmv5]

From reading through this thread it seems that a lot of people have not learned anything from watching Larry Fitzgerald. A wide receiver with all-world talent with an incredible work ethic can surmount a less than ideal QB. Besides injuries, Fitzgerald has been a consistent beast, regardless of his quarterback. Fitzgerald put up 6 for 85 and a touch even with Navarre as his QB.

Calvin Johnson has shown he is a physical freak and is known for his work ethic as well. We watched him overcome a below average coach and coordinator. He played throughout the season with a washed-up Kitna, an out of shape Culpepper, and an I have no business starting Dan Orlovsky as his QB. Throughout that, the constant was Calvin Johnson with an impressive level of consistency. Many of the touchdowns he had would have only been routine first downs in other wide receivers hands as he made something out of nothing on many, many plays.

This year, he may not be 2/3rds of the offense but I have no doubt that the Lions will be a more effective offense in the hands of Scott Linehan, a coordinator who knows how to use his best weapons, especially in the red zone. Chris Chambers put up 82 receptions for 1118 yards and 11 touchdowns in Linehan's offense with mostly Frerotte as his QB. Think about that one for a minute. Culpepper appears to be in good shape and at the very least is very familiar with the offense and if he fails, Stafford may have some errors here and there but I have no doubt that he can outperform Orlovsky right now.

I noticed people are locking down on this 2/3rds of the offensive touchdowns thing. So maybe he won't be 2/3rds of a p'zone again but I could see him being 1/2 of a medium cheese and pepperoni and he still only had 78 receptions last year. In addition, I see many areas of improvement, similar to Fitzgerald's natural improvement progression. Calvin could improve his dropsies, route running, getting off the jam, etc. With all that in mind, I predict:

85 receptions 1400 yards and 15 touchdowns. Ignore him again at your own risk.

So you think Detroit will throw 30 TD's this year?

Yeah, I knew my proportions were going to be off, but 1/2 a medium sounded better. I think the Lions offense will be substantially better than year's past. I have confidence in Linehan to be able to have more success than Coletto, no problem.

 

[billymays]

saying CJ got his yards in garbage time trying to play catch up is not what its cracked up to be. sure if you are a juggernaut on O and have a crap defense like the saints or cards(reg.season) then you can get huge numbers in playing from behind. for the lions last year it just meant more three and outs and more sacks. it helped CJs stats minimally if at all.

one thing i am curious about. are there any stats for receivers and the yardage they accrue for pass interference penalties? once the lions QBs figured out a bomb into a double team isnt a bad idea DBs were getting flagged alot guarding him.

85-1300-11

 

[whitewizard]

most of the time people worry about what will happen to a receiver when their team and QB suck. well we have seen what happens 12 TDs, and 1300 yards.

now what people are worried that the team will get better? 75% of the offense is probably not going to happen again but my question is how many TD will we throw

we only threw 18 TDs last year does anyone think we will throw less TDs? 30TDs is a little high but 25ish seems reasonable. so 50% of that comes out to 12 TDs right about where he was last year. to actually think that calvin will do worse in his 3rd year with a better team aorund him is just over analyzing things.

to say he will get anything less than 10 TDs and 1200 yards is just a perfect example of people overanalyzing things. he is in a great situation to score points. with a team that at least looks competitve, with a few decent to reliable receiving options, and a 3rd year receiver who already busted the windows people think he will perform worse.

go ahead pick andre and fitz ahead of him, i will be a homer and take the best receiver in the NFL.

 

[Inspiration]

we only threw 18 TDs last year does anyone think we will throw less TDs? 30TDs is a little high but 25ish seems reasonable. so 50% of that comes out to 12 TDs right about where he was last year. to actually think that calvin will do worse in his 3rd year with a better team aorund him is just over analyzing things.

25 TDs would be tied for the 7th most by a team in 2008; the average team threw just over 20 TDs. In fact, 11 teams had fewer passing TDs than Detroit that season. I don't expect the Lions to be that prolific on offense, so 25 TDs, while possible, seems like a longshot for this team.

 

[stewartcjae]

we only threw 18 TDs last year does anyone think we will throw less TDs? 30TDs is a little high but 25ish seems reasonable. so 50% of that comes out to 12 TDs right about where he was last year. to actually think that calvin will do worse in his 3rd year with a better team aorund him is just over analyzing things.

25 TDs would be tied for the 7th most by a team in 2008; the average team threw just over 20 TDs. In fact, 11 teams had fewer passing TDs than Detroit that season. I don't expect the Lions to be that prolific on offense, so 25 TDs, while possible, seems like a longshot for this team.

Thats exactly what I have been saying.......How does 25 passing td sound reasonable? only 10 teams had more then 23 last year. Detroit is not gonna turn into one of the higher passing scoring teams. With cpep and a rookie QB Detroit will be lucky to have 20tds passing all year. A feat they have only done once in the last 6.

 

[whitewizard]

still the question becomes why do you think that a receiver entering his 3rd year, who has already had a great year, getting more consistentcy at QB (even if it is cpep and stafford it is only 2 guys compared to last years 5, mainly 3), on a team that is improving, will do worse.

has he has hit career highs?

no most agree he can do better if/when stafford is matured.

it is because many think that detroit will be stupid enough to try and run LESS plays through their best player.

as for the overall production of offenses. last year was the first year offenses had to adjust to defenses having radio communication. you may have an opinion on how much it affected the game but things will change and offenses are notorious for adapting, defenses might be able to keep up but production should increase.

i can understand that people worry that the D will get better and we might not have to throw as much, but a few seem to be worried that the offense might get more consistent and it would hurt his production.

really it goes back to what i said earlier about over analyzing stuff. he is a great receiver with just enough help, on the team overall so they can actually function as a offense, and not be forced to just throw 80 yard bombs all the time. he catches them more often than not but with a better team he might actually have time to run routes other than the GO and maybe even get more yardage.

3rd year is the charm right, just not for one of the best receivers in the game, on an improving team.

my official prediction is 1350 yards, 85 recs, 12 TDs.

about the same as last year i just think that with better targets we can move down the field more efficiently and he can get more red zone chances, plus the expereince should shine on through and he will make the most of his oppurtunities. he is the best player on the team we will fall behind and he will be the go to guy.

 

[Balance]

we only threw 18 TDs last year does anyone think we will throw less TDs? 30TDs is a little high but 25ish seems reasonable. so 50% of that comes out to 12 TDs right about where he was last year. to actually think that calvin will do worse in his 3rd year with a better team aorund him is just over analyzing things.

25 TDs would be tied for the 7th most by a team in 2008; the average team threw just over 20 TDs. In fact, 11 teams had fewer passing TDs than Detroit that season. I don't expect the Lions to be that prolific on offense, so 25 TDs, while possible, seems like a longshot for this team.

Thats exactly what I have been saying.......How does 25 passing td sound reasonable? only 10 teams had more then 23 last year. Detroit is not gonna turn into one of the higher passing scoring teams. With cpep and a rookie QB Detroit will be lucky to have 20tds passing all year. A feat they have only done once in the last 6.

I'm not predicting it, but I would argue that if there is a team set to make this leap in passing TD's... it would be the Lions.

 

[Balance]

Link

37. He had 12 touchdown catches, tied for most in the NFL.

38. He did this despite getting only 14 red zone targets, which was tied for 31st in the NFL.

 

[Grahamburn]

Link

37. He had 12 touchdown catches, tied for most in the NFL.

38. He did this despite getting only 14 red zone targets, which was tied for 31st in the NFL.

Exactly.If their offense gets any better he's going to put up monster TD numbers.

 

[thehornet]

Massive Talent. Massively overrated for this year.

 

[Addai's Adidas]

If they ever get the ball in the red zone just pop the ball in the corner of the endzone and let him go get it. TD.

 

[Grahamburn]

Massive Talent. Massively overrated for this year.

Overrated as the #4 WR off the board?

 

[harryhood]

Massive Talent. Massively overrated for this year.

Overrated as the #4 WR off the board?

I am even seeing him go as the WR6 in some cases too.

 

[Franknbeans]

I have to agree on this TD thing. This 16 to 18 amount I keep seeing is highly insane. No way does Detroit throw for 20 and no way does he catch 80 to 90%. I can see 90-1400 and 11 TD's.

He had 12 on an 0-16 team. You don't think he's good for a few more?

 

[thehornet]

I have to agree on this TD thing. This 16 to 18 amount I keep seeing is highly insane. No way does Detroit throw for 20 and no way does he catch 80 to 90%. I can see 90-1400 and 11 TD's.

He had 12 on an 0-16 team. You don't think he's good for a few more?

Why does everyone just assume just because this is Calvin Johnson that his stats are SURE to go up? 12 was insane for last year. If he matches that then owners should consider themselves lucky.

 

[thehornet]

Massive Talent. Massively overrated for this year.

Overrated as the #4 WR off the board?

Yes. I dont see his stats going up or even matching last year's total. His totals last year are mind boggling considering the team he was on and the QB play.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

I have to agree on this TD thing. This 16 to 18 amount I keep seeing is highly insane. No way does Detroit throw for 20 and no way does he catch 80 to 90%. I can see 90-1400 and 11 TD's.

He had 12 on an 0-16 team. You don't think he's good for a few more?

Why does everyone just assume just because this is Calvin Johnson that his stats are SURE to go up? 12 was insane for last year. If he matches that then owners should consider themselves lucky.

Because he did that with one of the worst LIONS qb years in quite some time (and that's saying a LOT) B/c he's a HUGE LIGHTNING fast freak that is uncoverable in single coverage, and sometimes even in 2x coverage. Oh yeah and he catches EVERYTHING.I think he's gonna be a top 5 receiver for about the next 6 yrs. He is a freakish blend of talent and intelligence that only comes along every few years (ilike randy moss)The lions will still be behind, lose a lot of games. As such they will be throwing. A LOT. And those passes will be coming from Culpepper (who learned how to throw to this kind of guy with Moss all those years/ or A freakishly talented and intelligent #1 pick- who seems to possess all the tools & will ceratinly throw better balls then the #### he dealt with last year.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

http://lions.fandome.com/video/114552/Best...008-Highlights/

Exhibit A (nice that they use shook ones in the highlight music. great slo mo highlight song.)

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

the second TD 22seconds is just sick ridiculous. He had THREE GUYS who had a chance to get him and didnt lay on finger on him.

If you didnt watch the Lions last year, just grab a beer, turn off the phone and sit back.

 

[thehornet]

I have to agree on this TD thing. This 16 to 18 amount I keep seeing is highly insane. No way does Detroit throw for 20 and no way does he catch 80 to 90%. I can see 90-1400 and 11 TD's.

He had 12 on an 0-16 team. You don't think he's good for a few more?

Why does everyone just assume just because this is Calvin Johnson that his stats are SURE to go up? 12 was insane for last year. If he matches that then owners should consider themselves lucky.

Because he did that with one of the worst LIONS qb years in quite some time (and that's saying a LOT) B/c he's a HUGE LIGHTNING fast freak that is uncoverable in single coverage, and sometimes even in 2x coverage. Oh yeah and he catches EVERYTHING.I think he's gonna be a top 5 receiver for about the next 6 yrs. He is a freakish blend of talent and intelligence that only comes along every few years (ilike randy moss)The lions will still be behind, lose a lot of games. As such they will be throwing. A LOT. And those passes will be coming from Culpepper (who learned how to throw to this kind of guy with Moss all those years/ or A freakishly talented and intelligent #1 pick- who seems to possess all the tools & will ceratinly throw better balls then the #### he dealt with last year.

But even Randy Moss had down years. Go check out his stats with the Raiders. It CAN happen to the best.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

at 46 seconds LOOK how open he is downfield, 2x covered when the vikings KNOW he's getting the ball.

1:06 for example of single coverage on CJ (96 yard td never within 5 yards of a defender

1:12 for fluid moves, sliding through DBs and Lbs and the STRETCH for the goaline of three yards

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

I have to agree on this TD thing. This 16 to 18 amount I keep seeing is highly insane. No way does Detroit throw for 20 and no way does he catch 80 to 90%. I can see 90-1400 and 11 TD's.

He had 12 on an 0-16 team. You don't think he's good for a few more?

Why does everyone just assume just because this is Calvin Johnson that his stats are SURE to go up? 12 was insane for last year. If he matches that then owners should consider themselves lucky.

Because he did that with one of the worst LIONS qb years in quite some time (and that's saying a LOT) B/c he's a HUGE LIGHTNING fast freak that is uncoverable in single coverage, and sometimes even in 2x coverage. Oh yeah and he catches EVERYTHING.I think he's gonna be a top 5 receiver for about the next 6 yrs. He is a freakish blend of talent and intelligence that only comes along every few years (ilike randy moss)The lions will still be behind, lose a lot of games. As such they will be throwing. A LOT. And those passes will be coming from Culpepper (who learned how to throw to this kind of guy with Moss all those years/ or A freakishly talented and intelligent #1 pick- who seems to possess all the tools & will ceratinly throw better balls then the #### he dealt with last year.

But even Randy Moss had down years. Go check out his stats with the Raiders. It CAN happen to the best.

There was a TON more involved in Moss raider decline. ANYTHING CAN happen, here we try to work in probabilities. and please watch the tape before blathering anymore. Look at the multiple times he was "uncovered" while double covered.Also look at the the colts score where he just makes the team look silly.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

I have to ask. Hornet. Where does Calvin fall on your draft board? He's truly 1 on mine, but In my head I treat him as WR4 as thats where it seems I can get him in the mocks I run (though I have him as a keeper in a league already at 4th value)

 

[thehornet]

I have to ask. Hornet. Where does Calvin fall on your draft board? He's truly 1 on mine, but In my head I treat him as WR4 as thats where it seems I can get him in the mocks I run (though I have him as a keeper in a league already at 4th value)

Dude, I just watched that video and the dude is amazing. Sky is the limit. I got him high. Top 3 in dynasty, no question. In redarft, I just would have a hard time buying him so early. I think Top 5 numbers are attainable, but there is a part of me that wouldnt be at all shocked if he finished outside of the TOP 10 for WR. The lions are that bad and starting with a Rookie QB.I'm really not trying to stir the pot. I like calvin as much as the next, but i try to be realistic and if that includes being too conservative, then so be it.

 

[Knobs]

We're being hippled.

FWIW, I agree with the hornet. I don't see Calvin doing better. Players don't ALWAYS improve. Just because the team is better doesn't mean that will help Calvin's numbers.

 

[yellowdog]

I have to agree on this TD thing. This 16 to 18 amount I keep seeing is highly insane. No way does Detroit throw for 20 and no way does he catch 80 to 90%. I can see 90-1400 and 11 TD's.

He had 12 on an 0-16 team. You don't think he's good for a few more?

Why does everyone just assume just because this is Calvin Johnson that his stats are SURE to go up? 12 was insane for last year. If he matches that then owners should consider themselves lucky.

If you pass on Calvin for anyone not named Randy, Larry, or Andre and get more production; you should consider yourself lucky.

 

[joffer]

he's a freak, probably more gifted athletically than Fitz or AJ.

I liked it better last year when you could get him in the 4th

 

[Ripleys]

No man can stop M E G A T R O N

 

[Steelfan7]

We're being hippled.FWIW, I agree with the hornet. I don't see Calvin doing better. Players don't ALWAYS improve. Just because the team is better doesn't mean that will help Calvin's numbers.

Calvin Johnson is not just any player. He is Megatron afterall. CJ's skills rival Randy Moss'. CJ is just starting to scratch his potential. He is uncoverable and C-Pep and Stafford both have strong arms to get him the ball far down the field.

 

[Maven]

My projection:

73rec, 1168yds 9TD

 

[Knobs]

We're being hippled.FWIW, I agree with the hornet. I don't see Calvin doing better. Players don't ALWAYS improve. Just because the team is better doesn't mean that will help Calvin's numbers.

Calvin Johnson is not just any player. He is Megatron afterall. CJ's skills rival Randy Moss'. CJ is just starting to scratch his potential. He is uncoverable and C-Pep and Stafford both have strong arms to get him the ball far down the field.

And?I own the guy in my keeper league. He's without question one of the most talented wr's in the entire league. But talent alone does not put up points.He'll still probably be a top 10 wr, but in order to draft him at his current ADP, he'll have to hit awfully close to his ceiling. He's overrated. I'd rather draft Moss, Steve Smith, Johnson, and several other wr's ahead of him. If he falls to the bottom of the top ten I'll snag him in my redraft. But you guys are relying on him getting double digit touchdowns? Last year the Lions had nothing after they traded away Roy. Calvin was the only weapon, and he was also the only guy who had consistent enough playing time to understand the playbook. The team will certainly improve but that does not automatically equate into Calvin improving. What do you guys think the Lions qb's will do this year? Yardage and td wise?

 

[Steelfan7]

We're being hippled.FWIW, I agree with the hornet. I don't see Calvin doing better. Players don't ALWAYS improve. Just because the team is better doesn't mean that will help Calvin's numbers.

Calvin Johnson is not just any player. He is Megatron afterall. CJ's skills rival Randy Moss'. CJ is just starting to scratch his potential. He is uncoverable and C-Pep and Stafford both have strong arms to get him the ball far down the field.

And?I own the guy in my keeper league. He's without question one of the most talented wr's in the entire league. But talent alone does not put up points.He'll still probably be a top 10 wr, but in order to draft him at his current ADP, he'll have to hit awfully close to his ceiling. He's overrated. I'd rather draft Moss, Steve Smith, Johnson, and several other wr's ahead of him. If he falls to the bottom of the top ten I'll snag him in my redraft. But you guys are relying on him getting double digit touchdowns? Last year the Lions had nothing after they traded away Roy. Calvin was the only weapon, and he was also the only guy who had consistent enough playing time to understand the playbook. The team will certainly improve but that does not automatically equate into Calvin improving. What do you guys think the Lions qb's will do this year? Yardage and td wise?

You're worried about CJ hitting double digits TDs, but yet want to draft Steve Smith and AJ ahead of him?

 

[5-ish Finkle]

http://lions.fandome.com/video/114552/Best...008-Highlights/

Exhibit A (nice that they use shook ones in the highlight music. great slo mo highlight song.)

That score against the Colts was just retahded.His body control, especially for a guy that tall, is just nuts.

I don't necessarily fall into the camp that believes he'll automatically improve his stats just because the team should be improved.....but if there's a few WRs that could be expected to do so, he's on the short list.

Linehan being his OC isn't being given near the consideration that it should, IMO.

 

[Darko M]

I have to ask. Hornet. Where does Calvin fall on your draft board? He's truly 1 on mine, but In my head I treat him as WR4 as thats where it seems I can get him in the mocks I run (though I have him as a keeper in a league already at 4th value)

Dude, I just watched that video and the dude is amazing. Sky is the limit. I got him high. Top 3 in dynasty, no question. In redarft, I just would have a hard time buying him so early. I think Top 5 numbers are attainable, but there is a part of me that wouldnt be at all shocked if he finished outside of the TOP 10 for WR. The lions are that bad and starting with a Rookie QB.I'm really not trying to stir the pot. I like calvin as much as the next, but i try to be realistic and if that includes being too conservative, then so be it.

I know they're entirely different teams but Ryan managed to make Roddy White a top 6 guy last year.

 

[Knobs]

I have to ask. Hornet. Where does Calvin fall on your draft board? He's truly 1 on mine, but In my head I treat him as WR4 as thats where it seems I can get him in the mocks I run (though I have him as a keeper in a league already at 4th value)

Dude, I just watched that video and the dude is amazing. Sky is the limit. I got him high. Top 3 in dynasty, no question. In redarft, I just would have a hard time buying him so early. I think Top 5 numbers are attainable, but there is a part of me that wouldnt be at all shocked if he finished outside of the TOP 10 for WR. The lions are that bad and starting with a Rookie QB.I'm really not trying to stir the pot. I like calvin as much as the next, but i try to be realistic and if that includes being too conservative, then so be it.

I know they're entirely different teams but Ryan managed to make Roddy White a top 6 guy last year.

And that was an awfully rare event for a rookie qb. I don't generally make a habit out of counting on rarities.

 

[Knobs]

You're worried about CJ hitting double digits TDs, but yet want to draft Steve Smith and AJ ahead of him?

Yes. As well as Jennings, Boldin, White, and others. I think they're much safer picks to get receptions, yards, and td's.

 

[ceo3west]

We're being hippled.

FWIW, I agree with the hornet. I don't see Calvin doing better. Players don't ALWAYS improve. Just because the team is better doesn't mean that will help Calvin's numbers.

Calvin Johnson is not just any player. He is Megatron afterall. CJ's skills rival Randy Moss'. CJ is just starting to scratch his potential. He is uncoverable and C-Pep and Stafford both have strong arms to get him the ball far down the field.

And?I own the guy in my keeper league. He's without question one of the most talented wr's in the entire league. But talent alone does not put up points.

He'll still probably be a top 10 wr, but in order to draft him at his current ADP, he'll have to hit awfully close to his ceiling. He's overrated.

I'd rather draft Moss, Steve Smith, Johnson, and several other wr's ahead of him. If he falls to the bottom of the top ten I'll snag him in my redraft.

But you guys are relying on him getting double digit touchdowns? Last year the Lions had nothing after they traded away Roy. Calvin was the only weapon, and he was also the only guy who had consistent enough playing time to understand the playbook.

The team will certainly improve but that does not automatically equate into Calvin improving.

What do you guys think the Lions qb's will do this year? Yardage and td wise?

You're worried about CJ hitting double digits TDs, but yet want to draft Steve Smith and AJ ahead of him?

I was just about to post this very same thing.CJ is uncoverable. Last year he was doubled basically every play, had 5 different QB's and still blew up.

And here is a snippet from from Matthew Berry at ESPN:

35. Only Steve Smith had more plays of 20-plus yards last season than Calvin Johnson.

36. Megatron was also fourth in the NFL in yards after the catch.

37. He had 12 touchdown catches, tied for most in the NFL.

38. He did this despite getting only 14 red zone targets, which was tied for 31st in the NFL.

39. Detroit's new offensive coordinator is Scott Linehan.

40. According to the Elias Sports Bureau, when Linehan was with the Rams from 2006-08, St. Louis was first in the NFL in passing touchdowns in the red zone.

41. When Linehan was the Dolphins' offensive coordinator in '05, they were fifth in red zone touchdowns.

42. From 2002-04, Linehan was with the Vikings, as was a guy named Randy Moss. He seemed to do OK.

43. And they were 13th in red zone touchdowns.

44. I have decided Scott Linehan likes to throw in the red zone.

 

[Steelfan7]

You're worried about CJ hitting double digits TDs, but yet want to draft Steve Smith and AJ ahead of him?

Yes. As well as Jennings, Boldin, White, and others. I think they're much safer picks to get receptions, yards, and td's.

Smith has hit double digits Tds only once and AJ has never done it, but they are safer picks? Not to mention both players and Boldin's history with injuries. OK

 

[Balance]

And here is a snippet from from Matthew Berry at ESPN:

35. Only Steve Smith had more plays of 20-plus yards last season than Calvin Johnson.

36. Megatron was also fourth in the NFL in yards after the catch.

37. He had 12 touchdown catches, tied for most in the NFL.

38. He did this despite getting only 14 red zone targets, which was tied for 31st in the NFL.

39. Detroit's new offensive coordinator is Scott Linehan.

40. According to the Elias Sports Bureau, when Linehan was with the Rams from 2006-08, St. Louis was first in the NFL in passing touchdowns in the red zone.

41. When Linehan was the Dolphins' offensive coordinator in '05, they were fifth in red zone touchdowns.

42. From 2002-04, Linehan was with the Vikings, as was a guy named Randy Moss. He seemed to do OK.

43. And they were 13th in red zone touchdowns.

44. I have decided Scott Linehan likes to throw in the red zone.

This was already posted above.

 

[Buffaloes]

And here is a snippet from from Matthew Berry at ESPN:

35. Only Steve Smith had more plays of 20-plus yards last season than Calvin Johnson.

36. Megatron was also fourth in the NFL in yards after the catch.

37. He had 12 touchdown catches, tied for most in the NFL.

38. He did this despite getting only 14 red zone targets, which was tied for 31st in the NFL.

39. Detroit's new offensive coordinator is Scott Linehan.

40. According to the Elias Sports Bureau, when Linehan was with the Rams from 2006-08, St. Louis was first in the NFL in passing touchdowns in the red zone.

41. When Linehan was the Dolphins' offensive coordinator in '05, they were fifth in red zone touchdowns.

42. From 2002-04, Linehan was with the Vikings, as was a guy named Randy Moss. He seemed to do OK.

43. And they were 13th in red zone touchdowns.

44. I have decided Scott Linehan likes to throw in the red zone.

This was already posted above.

He probably has you on ignore.

 

[Steelfan7]

And here is a snippet from from Matthew Berry at ESPN:

35. Only Steve Smith had more plays of 20-plus yards last season than Calvin Johnson.

36. Megatron was also fourth in the NFL in yards after the catch.

37. He had 12 touchdown catches, tied for most in the NFL.

38. He did this despite getting only 14 red zone targets, which was tied for 31st in the NFL.

39. Detroit's new offensive coordinator is Scott Linehan.

40. According to the Elias Sports Bureau, when Linehan was with the Rams from 2006-08, St. Louis was first in the NFL in passing touchdowns in the red zone.

41. When Linehan was the Dolphins' offensive coordinator in '05, they were fifth in red zone touchdowns.

42. From 2002-04, Linehan was with the Vikings, as was a guy named Randy Moss. He seemed to do OK.

43. And they were 13th in red zone touchdowns.

44. I have decided Scott Linehan likes to throw in the red zone.

This was already posted above.

And now due to you quoting him it is posted again and by me quoting you it is posted again. Happy now. lol

 

[thehornet]

Matt Berry? Seriously? I'm not even the type to bash the internet fantasy analysts/gurus, but this guy 100% - without a question in my mind, steals all of his information, opinions and stats from diehard forums just like this one. It is absolutely mind blowing to me that this guy has a job, let alone on the largest sports network on the planet, ESPN. This blowhard makes thousands of wild guesses annually and then has the audacity to trot out the old "you should have listened to me" line when his crap mistakenly sticks to the wall. Not to mention, all of the dumb little reasons/stats that he uses to determine whether he "loves or hates" someone are completely mutually exclusive. Seriously, WTF does Linehan's assistant coaching record for the Dolphins a half decade ago really have anything to do calvin freaking johnson in 2010??? Damn, whoever just brought that fool's name up in this thread, just ruined my day. Thanks a lot. And it's friday. I hate you.

rant/

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

I have to ask. Hornet. Where does Calvin fall on your draft board? He's truly 1 on mine, but In my head I treat him as WR4 as thats where it seems I can get him in the mocks I run (though I have him as a keeper in a league already at 4th value)

Dude, I just watched that video and the dude is amazing. Sky is the limit. I got him high. Top 3 in dynasty, no question. In redarft, I just would have a hard time buying him so early. I think Top 5 numbers are attainable, but there is a part of me that wouldnt be at all shocked if he finished outside of the TOP 10 for WR. The lions are that bad and starting with a Rookie QB.I'm really not trying to stir the pot. I like calvin as much as the next, but i try to be realistic and if that includes being too conservative, then so be it.

I applaud you for being willing to step back from the number crunching and just ciew the raw talent he displays. I am a lions homer, but this isn't homerism. This is a receiver that you create in Madden Superstar mode. He went to GA tech (smart) he's 6'5. he's cut, He's fast, and His hands are sick. And he prolly rivals fitz for the best fade route in the game right now.I agree. But that's why we research. But when people talk about "the numbers lying" (especially with a guy who had a 96 yard td, and multiple 3-4 catches 100+ yards games, this doesn;t seem to be that case. Dbs didnt fall, or slip, they were BEAT. And the margins by which he was OPEN when 2x covered tells me that if the lions QB play even marginally improves (while I see a more drastic improvement-- i like the schwartz regime and liken it to mike smiths regime and the effect that a SOLID coach/coaching staff can have on an organiztion. Plus Culpepper knows how to throw the fade, and the deep ball, and thas all CJ needs) Safetys didn't miss tackles, or even take bad angles, he just is faster and bigger than anyone out there. It is truly a men among boys situation.

 

[ceo3west]

Matt Berry? Seriously? I'm not even the type to bash the internet fantasy analyst and gurus, but this guy 100%, without a question in my mind steals all of his information and stats from the internet. It is absolutely mind blowing that this guy has a job, let alone the largest sports network on the planet, ESPN. This blowhard makes thousands of wild guesses annunally and totes out the old"you should have listened to me" when his crap mistakenly hits the wall. Damn, whoever just brought that fool's name up in this thread, just ruined my day. And it's friday. I hate you.

I'm not a big fan either, but these are facts that he brought up, not opinions. Ignore them at your own risk.