Player Spotlight: Lamont Jordan (1 Viewer)

[Raiders Fan]

Everything is positive so far.. by Fanball Staff - Fanball.comWednesday, August 17, 2005NewsEarly returns on the Raiders' revamped offensive line were very positive in the team's preseason opener against the Niners. Quarterback Kerry Collins completed 8-of-12 passes for 68 yards and left the field with a clean uniform. ''I think they are really coming together as a unit,'' Collins told the San Jose Mercury News.ViewsIf Collins, Randy Moss, and LaMont Jordan are to meet expectations on offense, they will have to get solid line play from a unit that includes second-year center Jake Grove, veteran guards Langston Walker and Brad Badger, and tackles Robert Gallery and Barry Sims. So far, so good.

 

[Gbagzz]

lamont is a great talent, but i dont know if he is in the best situation.

Team                        Attempts      Yards          YPC

St. Louis Rams      381      1624      4.3       

Philadelphia Eagles  376    1639    4.4     

Oakland Raiders  327    1295    4.0   

bottom 3 teams in rush attempts from last year. i am quite sure all 3 will improve on this, but i doubt there will be a huge jump for any of these teams (philly and st. louis were 26th and 28th in 03).  yes, norv turner has pumped out some big rb stats in the past, but he has never had a randy moss. just hard to see oakland not airing it out this year. 

not that this would be bad for jordan, but he would need to be more like a westbrook to be a good ff rb, especially with crockett in the mix.  he seems like a nice receiver, but i dont think he has 80 recs in him.  i have him ranked 19th, right behind cumar.

260/1150/4

55/400/4

Where do you get this information?? What have you seen in him to make a judgment like that?? Jordan might not have 80 rec this year but 50 is almost a guarantee. With upside for more. Have you read this thread???? Anything basing on last years numbers is totally irrelevant. Last year they had a 3 headed or maybe even 4 headed monster.. There wasn't 1 guy that could do most of the load. This year Turner HAS the back he WANTS. He was dealing with what the Raiders had last year. He scouted and went after the best back he felt for HIS system. This guy is top 10 fantasy talent and in a system that will use him galore. Pass on him.. You will regret it later. The only reason he hasn't started before is cause of Martin and the Jets didn't want to lose him.

I Bet you that if Jordan isn't injured and plays at least 14 games he will be better then the 19 RB. I see top 10 talent and in a system to do that. You can't pass wel without running.. Remember that. look at the Raiders super bowl year.. Their running game was much improved. Moss will get his but you are looking at the new Rams offense this year.

finally a thread that makes some sense

 

[toofunny]

What about Zack Crockett...can Jordan score enough TDs w/o getting the short carries?

Lamont: 8-10 TDsCrockett: 5-7 TDs

This includes Lamont's receiving TDs. If he plays all 16 games, I think this is very realistic.

13-17 rushing TDs?18 teams had less then 13 rushing TDs, Raiders had 10.

Their D is STILL horrible.

They will get 10-12 rushing TDs.

Jordan gets 5-6 TDs.

EVERY team wants to run 400 times. When the raiders are down 14-0, how often do you think Jordan is gonna get the ball? Not to mention Zack and Moss will steal most of his RZ TDs.

Jordan will be the biggest RB bust of the year. People taking him in the top 25 will be in for a rude surprise. This is a classic FF overprotection, a backup becomes a starter, and everyone projects 1,200+ yds and 10 TDs. Only 7 RBs had 1,200 yds/10 TDs, and you're going to project that or more for a Raiders RB?

 

[Wingnut]

Jordan will be the biggest RB bust of the year. People taking him in the top 25 will be in for a rude surprise. This is a classic FF overprotection, a backup becomes a starter, and everyone projects 1,200+ yds and 10 TDs. Only 7 RBs had 1,200 yds/10 TDs, and you're going to project that or more for a Raiders RB?

I think its more of a Norv Turner workhorse RB projection than it is a Raider RB projection.The fact that he should get 240-300 carries is enough of a reason to think he will be a good #2 RB with a chance to put up RB1 numbers. Talent + opportunity = success.

 

[Hellfire Snail]

What about Zack Crockett...can Jordan score enough TDs w/o getting the short carries?

Lamont: 8-10 TDsCrockett: 5-7 TDs

This includes Lamont's receiving TDs. If he plays all 16 games, I think this is very realistic.

13-17 rushing TDs?18 teams had less then 13 rushing TDs, Raiders had 10.

Their D is STILL horrible.

They will get 10-12 rushing TDs.

Jordan gets 5-6 TDs.

EVERY team wants to run 400 times. When the raiders are down 14-0, how often do you think Jordan is gonna get the ball? Not to mention Zack and Moss will steal most of his RZ TDs.

Jordan will be the biggest RB bust of the year. People taking him in the top 25 will be in for a rude surprise. This is a classic FF overprotection, a backup becomes a starter, and everyone projects 1,200+ yds and 10 TDs. Only 7 RBs had 1,200 yds/10 TDs, and you're going to project that or more for a Raiders RB?

When the Raiders are at the one or two yard line, Crockett will get the ball. When the Raiders are near the ten yard line, Moss will get his share. There aren't a lot of places on the field where Jordan will find TD oppurtunities. He'll come upon a few over the course of the season, but more than ten? Hard to envision.

 

[RudeDog]

What about Zack Crockett...can Jordan score enough TDs w/o getting the short carries?

Lamont: 8-10 TDsCrockett: 5-7 TDs

This includes Lamont's receiving TDs. If he plays all 16 games, I think this is very realistic.

13-17 rushing TDs?18 teams had less then 13 rushing TDs, Raiders had 10.

Their D is STILL horrible.

They will get 10-12 rushing TDs.

Jordan gets 5-6 TDs.

EVERY team wants to run 400 times. When the raiders are down 14-0, how often do you think Jordan is gonna get the ball? Not to mention Zack and Moss will steal most of his RZ TDs.

Jordan will be the biggest RB bust of the year. People taking him in the top 25 will be in for a rude surprise. This is a classic FF overprotection, a backup becomes a starter, and everyone projects 1,200+ yds and 10 TDs. Only 7 RBs had 1,200 yds/10 TDs, and you're going to project that or more for a Raiders RB?

Tell me then, would you draft an untested rookie like Arrington, Benson, Brown or Williams ahead of Jordan ??If so then your statement about a backup becoming a starter is hypocritical and should be dismissed.

 

[LawFitz]

This one will be settled on the field in a short while.I'll tell you this right now though, assuming Jordan is healthy for 16 games, He's a lock for 1300+ total yards, 40+ receptions and 6 total TDs. As far as receptions go, I'd say Lamont has shown that his hands are reliable. He will be on the field on 3rd down and will get his catches.That makes him far from a bust even at the low end and the upside is MUCH greater depending on how the chips fall in that offense.I'll take that from my 2nd RB.I think it's mainly a question of health and the randomness of TD scoring that will place Jordan between #5 and #15 this year.

 

[toofunny]

What about Zack Crockett...can Jordan score enough TDs w/o getting the short carries?

Lamont: 8-10 TDsCrockett: 5-7 TDs

This includes Lamont's receiving TDs. If he plays all 16 games, I think this is very realistic.

13-17 rushing TDs?18 teams had less then 13 rushing TDs, Raiders had 10.

Their D is STILL horrible.

They will get 10-12 rushing TDs.

Jordan gets 5-6 TDs.

EVERY team wants to run 400 times. When the raiders are down 14-0, how often do you think Jordan is gonna get the ball? Not to mention Zack and Moss will steal most of his RZ TDs.

Jordan will be the biggest RB bust of the year. People taking him in the top 25 will be in for a rude surprise. This is a classic FF overprotection, a backup becomes a starter, and everyone projects 1,200+ yds and 10 TDs. Only 7 RBs had 1,200 yds/10 TDs, and you're going to project that or more for a Raiders RB?

Tell me then, would you draft an untested rookie like Arrington, Benson, Brown or Williams ahead of Jordan ??If so then your statement about a backup becoming a starter is hypocritical and should be dismissed.

Um no I wouldn't.I'm also not projecting 1,200 yds 10+ tds for any of them either.

There's a handful of people here projecting top 10 numbers for him. That's beyond insane. How did Norv Turner RBs do last year?

Lets recap. The Raiders are THE WORST rushing team in the league. Hello?

Lets add it up.

Worst rushing team in the league.

+

Worst D in the league.

+

Best TD vulture in the league

+

Unproven lifetime backup joins team.

=

1,200+ yds and 10+ tds which is roughly top 10 numbers. Err, wrong.

*lol*

There's so much stacked against Jordan, if he gets 1,000 yards it will be a major accomplishment. From a team that average 80 yds a game on the ground, with STILL the worst D in the league, I just don't see how 95% of the projections even have a chance of coming true.

Anyway keep drafting Jordan in the late 2nd early 3rd.

 

[Raiders Fan]

What about Zack Crockett...can Jordan score enough TDs w/o getting the short carries?

Lamont: 8-10 TDsCrockett: 5-7 TDs

This includes Lamont's receiving TDs. If he plays all 16 games, I think this is very realistic.

13-17 rushing TDs?18 teams had less then 13 rushing TDs, Raiders had 10.

Their D is STILL horrible.

They will get 10-12 rushing TDs.

Jordan gets 5-6 TDs.

EVERY team wants to run 400 times. When the raiders are down 14-0, how often do you think Jordan is gonna get the ball? Not to mention Zack and Moss will steal most of his RZ TDs.

Jordan will be the biggest RB bust of the year. People taking him in the top 25 will be in for a rude surprise. This is a classic FF overprotection, a backup becomes a starter, and everyone projects 1,200+ yds and 10 TDs. Only 7 RBs had 1,200 yds/10 TDs, and you're going to project that or more for a Raiders RB?

Tell me then, would you draft an untested rookie like Arrington, Benson, Brown or Williams ahead of Jordan ??If so then your statement about a backup becoming a starter is hypocritical and should be dismissed.

Um no I wouldn't.I'm also not projecting 1,200 yds 10+ tds for any of them either.

There's a handful of people here projecting top 10 numbers for him. That's beyond insane. How did Norv Turner RBs do last year?

Lets recap. The Raiders are THE WORST rushing team in the league. Hello?

Lets add it up.

Worst rushing team in the league.

+

Worst D in the league.

+

Best TD vulture in the league

+

Unproven lifetime backup joins team.

=

1,200+ yds and 10+ tds which is roughly top 10 numbers. Err, wrong.

*lol*

There's so much stacked against Jordan, if he gets 1,000 yards it will be a major accomplishment. From a team that average 80 yds a game on the ground, with STILL the worst D in the league, I just don't see how 95% of the projections even have a chance of coming true.

Anyway keep drafting Jordan in the late 2nd early 3rd.

LAST YEARS NUMBERS ARE NOT THIS YEARS.. Last year NO GOOD RB.. This year a much more well rounded RB.. Your arguments are based on a bunch of journeymen RB's and trying to compare them to a legit one.. Yes Jordan hasn't had a year as a starter yet but his talent is known.. Last year Turner didn't pick his RB.. This year he did. I can't believe your whole argument is based on LAST YEAR.If Portis was a Raider would you discount him cause the Raiders did bad running last year??? WOW I am amazed how much of a guppy you are. This pool isn't for you..

 

[fridayfrenzy]

I dont think Jordan will be a bust, but SO many people are calling TOP 10 RB "FOR SURE" and "EASILY". I think he is ranked about where he should be.People keep talking about his opportunity and that will get him in the Top 10, but his opportunity isn't that great people. CONS:-He isn't the focus of their offense-He is not the GL threat that Crockett and Moss are.-The Raiders Defense is TERRIBLE and will have to abandon the run to stay in the game.-The Raiders had the LEAST amount of carries in the NFL last year and besides worsening their defense on paper and adding a Premiere WR, nothing has changed to show that they are going to be able to commit to running the ball alot more. Regardless of what RBs were in the backfield last year, if the TEAM was somewhat capable of running, they would have had more carries. Their lack of running the ball isn't solely due to the RBs, but has alot of factors involved in which none have really improved.-People point out that Turner went out and got the guy he wanted. What leads you to believe that Turner is a good scout? He also got Hambrick and Zereoue last year, and I don't need to remind anyone how that turned out. Turner was blessed with landing on teams with stud RBs already in place, this isn't the case.-Jordan has been a backup his whole career. People's excuse is that he played behind a "future HOFer", but if there was any indication that the Jets were going to make him their RB of the future, they could have played him moreso, or signed him to an extension at some point. If Jordan is such a stud, why not save Martin a bit and diminish his carries somewhat to save Martin and get Jordan into the fold?

 

[wannabee]

Who is Jordan's backup? Fargas? Yikes. I was thinking of the "what ifs" of something happening to Jordan. I guess it would bump Collins up some because RF points out that no good RB last year. Would that not be the same situation if something happened to Jordan?

 

[fridayfrenzy]

Last year Turner didn't pick his RB.. This year he did. I can't believe your whole argument is based on LAST YEAR.

If Portis was a Raider would you discount him cause the Raiders did bad running last year??? WOW I am amazed how much of a guppy you are. This pool isn't for you..

Were Hambrick and Zereoue not recruited last year by the Raiders? Are you implying that Turner had no part of this?You are comparing Jordan to Portis...LOL. Get outta dodge.

Howabout you compare Jordan to Hambrick. Similar situation. I realize Jordanwas heavily paid, but its still a similar situation. Hambrick is a big back who showed flashes, just exactly like Jordan has.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

I'm curious, if Turner wasn't the coach or didn't go to teams with great RBs who put up good numbers, would there be anywhere close to this hype on Jordan?People always use Turner's past with Davis, Williams, Allen and Emmitt like its gong to happen with Jordan. Does Turner even call the plays for the offense? Their Assistant Coach is the offensive coordinator (Jimmy Raye). I realize that teams with HCs who call the plays still have a OC, but I was just curious.

 

[RBM]

I'm curious, if Turner wasn't the coach or didn't go to teams with great RBs who put up good numbers, would there be anywhere close to this hype on Jordan?

People always use Turner's past with Davis, Williams, Allen and Emmitt like its gong to happen with Jordan.

Does Turner even call the plays for the offense?

Are you saying Turner has nothing to do with the offense the Raiders will be running?

 

[fridayfrenzy]

I'm curious, if Turner wasn't the coach or didn't go to teams with great RBs who put up good numbers, would there be anywhere close to this hype on Jordan?

People always use Turner's past with Davis, Williams, Allen and Emmitt like its gong to happen with Jordan.

Does Turner even call the plays for the offense?

Are you saying Turner has nothing to do with the offense the Raiders will be running?

Not at all, but people seem to forget his most recent year and point to the great RBs he has coached. I was saying that if Turner never had those RBs like that, would Jordan's hype still be so huge. It seems that people point to his history with RBs who were already on the team when he stared and presume that Jordan is giong to turn out like them.

 

[RBM]

I'm curious, if Turner wasn't the coach or didn't go to teams with great RBs who put up good numbers, would there be anywhere close to this hype on Jordan?

People always use Turner's past with Davis, Williams, Allen and Emmitt like its gong to happen with Jordan.

Does Turner even call the plays for the offense?

Are you saying Turner has nothing to do with the offense the Raiders will be running?

Not at all, but people seem to forget his most recent year and point to the great RBs he has coached. I was saying that if Turner never had those RBs like that, would Jordan's hype still be so huge. It seems that people point to his history with RBs who were already on the team when he stared and presume that Jordan is giong to turn out like them.

Not sure people think Turner is just going to wave a magic wand and turn Jordan into Emmitt or Ricky; Its just that his offense is usually rb-friendly. Everybody knows Norv loves to pound the ball, set up the defense and go deep. Just think everybody that is pro-Jordan realizes that he was personally selected by Norv, and hes going to get alot of chances to succeed

 

[fridayfrenzy]

I'm curious, if Turner wasn't the coach or didn't go to teams with great RBs who put up good numbers, would there be anywhere close to this hype on Jordan?

People always use Turner's past with Davis, Williams, Allen and Emmitt like its gong to happen with Jordan.

Does Turner even call the plays for the offense?

Are you saying Turner has nothing to do with the offense the Raiders will be running?

Not at all, but people seem to forget his most recent year and point to the great RBs he has coached. I was saying that if Turner never had those RBs like that, would Jordan's hype still be so huge. It seems that people point to his history with RBs who were already on the team when he stared and presume that Jordan is giong to turn out like them.

Not sure people think Turner is just going to wave a magic wand and turn Jordan into Emmitt or Ricky; Its just that his offense is usually rb-friendly. Everybody knows Norv loves to pound the ball, set up the defense and go deep. Just think everybody that is pro-Jordan realizes that he was personally selected by Norv, and hes going to get alot of chances to succeed

My guess is that most teams would love to have a game strategy like that, but their teams are not equipped to do so. What part of 300 carries as a TEAM is pounding the ball? What part of 30 ppg against by the defense is "setting up the defense"?What coaches want to do and what they are going to have to do to remain competitive are sometimes very different things. The Raiders don't have the personnel on the other side of the ball to pound the ball.

Teams with crappy RBs still can run the ball plenty more than 302 carries. Running the ball does not solely depend on the RB is in the backfield, and hate when people say that the Raiders only had 300 RB carries of because of who was carrying the ball, and not other factors such as O-Line, Defense, Opposition, Game Situations.

 

[RBM]

My guess is that most teams would love to have a game strategy like that, but their teams are not equipped to do so. What part of 300 carries as a TEAM is pounding the ball? What part of 30 ppg against by the defense is "setting up the defense"?

I mean setting up the opposing defense, not their own. The Raiders offense is absolutely equipped to play that kind of football.

What coaches want to do and what they are going to have to do to remain competitive are sometimes very different things. The Raiders don't have the personnel on the other side of the ball to pound the ball.

Im pretty positive the Raiders arent going to be down 21-0 in every 1st qtr. I dont see why they wont be able to play their offense, even if their defense is struggling, just as long as they dont get behind too far (ie: 21-0 in the 1st)

Teams with crappy RBs still can run the ball plenty more than 302 carries. Running the ball does not solely depend on the RB is in the backfield, and hate when people say that the Raiders only had 300 RB carries of because of who was carrying the ball, and not other factors such as O-Line, Defense, Opposition, Game Situations.

What rb you have lining up in your backfield doesnt have a HUGE impact on how many times you run the ball? You've gotta be kidding me

 

[Gbagzz]

My guess is that most teams would love to have a game strategy like that, but their teams are not equipped to do so.  What part of 300 carries as a TEAM is pounding the ball?  What part of 30 ppg against by the defense is "setting up the defense"?

I mean setting up the opposing defense, not their own. The Raiders offense is absolutely equipped to play that kind of football.

What coaches want to do and what they are going to have to do to remain competitive are sometimes very different things.  The Raiders don't have the personnel  on the other side of the ball to pound the ball.

Im pretty positive the Raiders arent going to be down 21-0 in every 1st qtr. I dont see why they wont be able to play their offense, even if their defense is struggling, just as long as they dont get behind too far (ie: 21-0 in the 1st)

Teams with crappy RBs still can run the ball plenty more than 302 carries.  Running the ball does not solely depend on the RB is in the backfield, and hate when people say that the Raiders only had 300 RB carries of because of who was carrying the ball, and not other factors such as O-Line, Defense, Opposition, Game Situations.

What rb you have lining up in your backfield doesnt have a HUGE impact on how many times you run the ball? You've gotta be kidding me

Looks like Fridayfrenzy is Frazzled

 

[Raiders Fan]

Last year Turner didn't pick his RB.. This year he did.  I can't believe your whole argument is based on LAST YEAR.

If Portis was a Raider would you discount him cause the Raiders did bad running last year???  WOW I am amazed how much of a guppy you are.    This pool isn't for you.. 

Were Hambrick and Zereoue not recruited last year by the Raiders? Are you implying that Turner had no part of this?You are comparing Jordan to Portis...LOL. Get outta dodge.

Howabout you compare Jordan to Hambrick. Similar situation. I realize Jordanwas heavily paid, but its still a similar situation. Hambrick is a big back who showed flashes, just exactly like Jordan has.

How can you be so sure Jordan will bust?? I have seen more of him breaking out then busting.. Obviously your knowledge of him is based on stats.. Anybody who has seen Jordan run knows this guy will succeed if given the chance.. Its his fault he was stuck behind Martin?? Downgrade his future cause of that?? Right team.. Right system..

 

[Sabertooth]

This offense is going to rock this season. I have little doubt of this. I would even go so far as to say they will be in the top 10 in scoring this season.How many points can we expect:Average of Top 10 offenses in Point for past three seasons: 420 or soAverage of Top 10 kickers: 130 or soPoints left over: About 290I have a hard time stating that the top running back on a team that is a decent bet to score 290 points will only get a half dozen or so touchdowns. I see a basement of 8 and a ceiling of about 18.Predictions:300 carries: 1350 yards25 catches: 200 yards12 touchdowns.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

My guess is that most teams would love to have a game strategy like that, but their teams are not equipped to do so. What part of 300 carries as a TEAM is pounding the ball? What part of 30 ppg against by the defense is "setting up the defense"?

I mean setting up the opposing defense, not their own. The Raiders offense is absolutely equipped to play that kind of football.

What coaches want to do and what they are going to have to do to remain competitive are sometimes very different things. The Raiders don't have the personnel on the other side of the ball to pound the ball.

Im pretty positive the Raiders arent going to be down 21-0 in every 1st qtr. I dont see why they wont be able to play their offense, even if their defense is struggling, just as long as they dont get behind too far (ie: 21-0 in the 1st)

Teams with crappy RBs still can run the ball plenty more than 302 carries. Running the ball does not solely depend on the RB is in the backfield, and hate when people say that the Raiders only had 300 RB carries of because of who was carrying the ball, and not other factors such as O-Line, Defense, Opposition, Game Situations.

What rb you have lining up in your backfield doesnt have a HUGE impact on how many times you run the ball? You've gotta be kidding me

Looks like Fridayfrenzy is Frazzled

I am stating that the RBs are not the only item responsible for the running game like many people are indicating. They aren't as "HUGE" as you would like to think. There are alot more factors to the Raiders only running for 320 carries as a team, than just who was carrying the ball. I, no doubt expect an increase in carries, but am still aware that the other items of the running game equation have remained constant. Take a look at the team total rushing stats from NFL.com.

The better rushing teams are usually teams with good O-lines, and better teams overall and not necesarily good RBs (of course it helps).

Average Record of Top 10 rushing teams: 11 wins

Notice how the poor rushing teams are for the most part bottom dweller teams and teams with poor O-lines.

Average Record of Bottom 10 rushing teams: 6 wins

Rushing relies more heavily on the O-line and the quality of the whole team, rather than just the skill of the RB carrying the ball. My whole point is that altough the RB carrying the ball has changed, not much else has changed for the Raiders to indicate to me they are going to be able to increase their carries by the significant amount it will take to give Lamont the chance to be a Top 10 RB.

I am not predicting Lamont to be a bust, but I am calling out those that think he is a top 10 RB "for sure" or "easily".

I believe that the Raiders will still be in the bottom 10 of the NFL in team carries this year as well. The Raiders would have had to increase their carries by 30% (~100 carries) to not be in the bottom 10 of carries last year.

How many Top 10 RBs were from the bottom 10 rushing teams last year? Answer....ZERO

 

[Tau837]

I will agree to disagree with the Jordan backers. I just want to get my predictions on the record:1. Jordan will not get 300 touches (where touches = combined rushing attempts & receptions).2. Jordan will not get 1500 total yards.3. Jordan will not get 10 total rushing & receiving TDs.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

I will agree to disagree with the Jordan backers. I just want to get my predictions on the record:

1. Jordan will not get 300 touches (where touches = combined rushing attempts & receptions).

2. Jordan will not get 1500 total yards.

3. Jordan will not get 10 total rushing & receiving TDs.

And I agree with you

 

[Raiders Fan]

I am stating that the RBs are not the only item responsible for the running game like many people are indicating. They aren't as "HUGE" as you would like to think. There are alot more factors to the Raiders only running for 320 carries as a team, than just who was carrying the ball. I, no doubt expect an increase in carries, but am still aware that the other items of the running game equation have remained constant.

Do you honestly think they will run the same as last year?? Last eyar they have a mess at RB.. You CAN'T use past to predict this future. Faulk succeeded in a pass happy system and was the top RB in his prime. Less then 300 carries too. Why?? Cause he was a good receiving back. I can see Jordan being used the same way. He mighjt put up those numbers but plenty of rushing attempts and reveiving.

Take a look at the team total rushing stats from NFL.com.

The better rushing teams are usually teams with good O-lines, and better teams overall and not necesarily good RBs (of course it helps).

Average Record of Top 10 rushing teams: 11 wins

So your saying the Raiders O-Line isn't improved?? Did you not ready the positive reports about the O-Line geling?? I swear all you must do is work on numbers from last year. That type of thinking will have you behind everybody cause last year is last year. The circumstances are DIFFERENT. You think like a guy in my league.. He is always in the bottom tier of the league cause thats how he drafts based on last years numbers.. The News

Early returns on the Raiders' revamped offensive line were very positive in the team's preseason opener against the Niners. Quarterback Kerry Collins completed 8-of-12 passes for 68 yards and left the field with a clean uniform. ``I think they are really coming together as a unit,' Collins told the San Jose Mercury News.

Our View

If Collins, Randy Moss, and LaMont Jordan are to meet expectations on offense, they will have to get solid line play from a unit that includes second-year center Jake Grove, veteran guards Langston Walker and Brad Badger, and tackles Robert Gallery and Barry Sims. So far, so good.

Notice how the poor rushing teams are for the most part bottom dweller teams and teams with poor O-lines.

Average Record of Bottom 10 rushing teams: 6 wins

Rushing relies more heavily on the O-line and the quality of the whole team, rather than just the skill of the RB carrying the ball. My whole point is that altough the RB carrying the ball has changed, not much else has changed for the Raiders to indicate to me they are going to be able to increase their carries by the significant amount it will take to give Lamont the chance to be a Top 10 RB.

I am not predicting Lamont to be a bust, but I am calling out those that think he is a top 10 RB "for sure" or "easily".

I believe that the Raiders will still be in the bottom 10 of the NFL in team carries this year as well. The Raiders would have had to increase their carries by 30% (~100 carries) to not be in the bottom 10 of carries last year.

How many Top 10 RBs were from the bottom 10 rushing teams last year? Answer....ZERO

What makes you think they will be at the bottom for team carries?? What makes you think they are not much more improved? The additionm of Moss.. The addition of a legit RB. The O-Line getting better. Gallery and Grove are going to be huge this year. Keep living in the PAST and miss the boat..

 

[Gbagzz]

I am stating that the RBs are not the only item responsible for the running game like many people are indicating.  They aren't as "HUGE" as you would like to think.  There are alot more factors to the Raiders only running for 320 carries as a team, than just who was carrying the ball.  I,  no doubt expect an increase in carries, but am still aware that the other items of the running game equation have remained constant.

Do you honestly think they will run the same as last year?? Last eyar they have a mess at RB.. You CAN'T use past to predict this future. Faulk succeeded in a pass happy system and was the top RB in his prime. Less then 300 carries too. Why?? Cause he was a good receiving back. I can see Jordan being used the same way. He mighjt put up those numbers but plenty of rushing attempts and reveiving.

Take a look at the team total rushing stats from NFL.com. 

The better rushing teams are usually teams with good O-lines, and better teams overall and not necesarily good RBs (of course it helps).

Average Record of Top 10 rushing teams: 11 wins

So your saying the Raiders O-Line isn't improved?? Did you not ready the positive reports about the O-Line geling?? I swear all you must do is work on numbers from last year. That type of thinking will have you behind everybody cause last year is last year. The circumstances are DIFFERENT. You think like a guy in my league.. He is always in the bottom tier of the league cause thats how he drafts based on last years numbers.. The News

Early returns on the Raiders' revamped offensive line were very positive in the team's preseason opener against the Niners. Quarterback Kerry Collins completed 8-of-12 passes for 68 yards and left the field with a clean uniform. ``I think they are really coming together as a unit,' Collins told the San Jose Mercury News.

Our View

If Collins, Randy Moss, and LaMont Jordan are to meet expectations on offense, they will have to get solid line play from a unit that includes second-year center Jake Grove, veteran guards Langston Walker and Brad Badger, and tackles Robert Gallery and Barry Sims. So far, so good.

Notice how the poor rushing teams are for the most part bottom dweller teams and teams with poor O-lines.

Average Record of Bottom 10 rushing teams: 6 wins

Rushing relies more heavily on the O-line and the quality of the whole team, rather than just the skill of the RB carrying the ball.  My whole point is that altough the RB carrying the ball has changed, not much else has changed for the Raiders to indicate to me they are going to be able to increase their carries by the significant amount it will take to give Lamont the chance to be a Top 10 RB.

I am not predicting Lamont to be a bust, but I am calling out those that think he is a top 10 RB "for sure" or "easily".

I believe that the Raiders will still be in the bottom 10 of the NFL in team carries this year as well. The Raiders would have had to increase their carries by 30% (~100 carries) to not be in the bottom 10 of carries last year.

How many Top 10 RBs were from the bottom 10 rushing teams last year?  Answer....ZERO

What makes you think they will be at the bottom for team carries?? What makes you think they are not much more improved? The additionm of Moss.. The addition of a legit RB. The O-Line getting better. Gallery and Grove are going to be huge this year. Keep living in the PAST and miss the boat..

I agreethere's seems to be a difference between the people that just look at figures and the people that actually watch and know the game.

 

[RBM]

Rushing relies more heavily on the O-line and the quality of the whole team, rather than just the skill of the RB carrying the ball. My whole point is that altough the RB carrying the ball has changed, not much else has changed for the Raiders to indicate to me they are going to be able to increase their carries by the significant amount it will take to give Lamont the chance to be a Top 10 RB.

I am not predicting Lamont to be a bust, but I am calling out those that think he is a top 10 RB "for sure" or "easily".

Couple of things. I agree that LaMont isnt a top 10 back. I agree and never said that a rb is the only factor that dictates how many times a team will run the ball. I do, however, know that the rb is the most important in determining how much a team will run the ball. If a team has a back that they are confident in, and know can make plays...they are going to get him the ball no matter what. I mean, thats not even debatable.

I do take issue with you saying not much has changed with the Raiders. Three major things are going to make the Raiders a much, much better running team. The most dangerous and feared wr in the game is now a Raider, and will always command the defenses main attention. And two names on the o-line....Robery Gallery and Jake Grove. Gallery is a year older, a year better...this guy is going to be special. And Jake Grove takes over his more natural position of center, and he is going to be a good one. That o-line is going to be above average this year, and will only get better as those two develop more.

 

[zamboni]

I agree

there's seems to be a difference between the people that just look at figures and the people that actually watch and know the game.

It's also interesting that many anti-Jordan people seem to think they know as much about spotting RB talent as Norv Turner does.

 

[obxlegends]

18 receptions

188 yards

1 receiving TD

You gotta be kidding me.? He had 4 in 1 qt in a preseason game. He's good for atleast 2 a week at the least. That's 32. I'd be suprised with anything less than 45.

Oh well.

 

[David Yudkin]

I agree

there's seems to be a difference between the people that just look at figures and the people that actually watch and know the game.

It's also interesting that many anti-Jordan people seem to think they know as much about spotting RB talent as Norv Turner does.

I'm not so sure Turner has made it this far by "spotting" and acquiring talent as opposed to inheriting talent (I posted on this exensively in one of the 400 Jordan threads). IIRC, all but 1 of his great RB were there when he got there.However, if you look at trends from Turner-coached teams you will notice that he usually runs the ball far more frequently than last season and his play calling ratio has been very close to 50/50 run/pass.

The fact that Jordan was the best available free agent RB on the market really does not in itself wow me. For example, in a fantasy draft, I often will look for the best available RB in the 8th round. That does not exactly mean you get someone great with that pick. Ditto for Jordan. Other big names could have been had in a trade, but that would require losing more picks and more cap grief so that was not really an option once they got Moss.

I am not sold on Jordan's abilities but I do think he is in a great situation with a chance to get some good opportunities. As for those pointing out that the Raiders were the worst rushing team yardage wise last year, I doubt they will be near that this year.

I'd call this an A for opportunity but a C for talent, and blending those together would average out to a B for productivity. As most people have been suggesting a great season or a mediocre one, I suspect Jordan will disappoint some but win over others. I think Jordan will be one of the better fantasy RB2s this season, but I don't see him vaulting over some other backs, nor do I see him ranking outside the Top 20. IMO, he's a very safe third round pick that could do better than expected, but taking him there he should at least earn back your investment.

As for his receiving numbers, the Raiders RB corps had a TON of receptions last season, but with Moss around I suspect that a lot of those receptions will get transitioned to Moss instead. I personally would not want to assign more than 35-40 receptions to Jordan, as anything above that should be considered gravy by that point.

 

[LawFitz]

18 receptions

188 yards

1 receiving TD

You gotta be kidding me.? He had 4 in 1 qt in a preseason game. He's good for atleast 2 a week at the least. That's 32. I'd be suprised with anything less than 45.

Oh well.

Jordan will get much more than 18 receptions assuming 16 games played.

This thread is overrun by people who have no idea about Lamont Jordan, the football player. Lamont can catch the football very well for a RB. So well that he'll stay on the field on 3rd down and be the recipient of a lot of dump offs.

I'd say he has a better than 50/50 chance at 300 touches, depending on how the entire offense evolves given the new players, chemistry, etc.

18 receptions. What a joke.

 

[Tau837]

I agree

there's seems to be a difference between the people that just look at figures and the people that actually watch and know the game.

It's also interesting that many anti-Jordan people seem to think they know as much about spotting RB talent as Norv Turner does.

I'm not so sure Turner has made it this far by "spotting" and acquiring talent as opposed to inheriting talent (I posted on this exensively in one of the 400 Jordan threads). IIRC, all but 1 of his great RB were there when he got there.However, if you look at trends from Turner-coached teams you will notice that he usually runs the ball far more frequently than last season and his play calling ratio has been very close to 50/50 run/pass.

The fact that Jordan was the best available free agent RB on the market really does not in itself wow me. For example, in a fantasy draft, I often will look for the best available RB in the 8th round. That does not exactly mean you get someone great with that pick. Ditto for Jordan. Other big names could have been had in a trade, but that would require losing more picks and more cap grief so that was not really an option once they got Moss.

I am not sold on Jordan's abilities but I do think he is in a great situation with a chance to get some good opportunities. As for those pointing out that the Raiders were the worst rushing team yardage wise last year, I doubt they will be near that this year.

I'd call this an A for opportunity but a C for talent, and blending those together would average out to a B for productivity. As most people have been suggesting a great season or a mediocre one, I suspect Jordan will disappoint some but win over others. I think Jordan will be one of the better fantasy RB2s this season, but I don't see him vaulting over some other backs, nor do I see him ranking outside the Top 20. IMO, he's a very safe third round pick that could do better than expected, but taking him there he should at least earn back your investment.

As for his receiving numbers, the Raiders RB corps had a TON of receptions last season, but with Moss around I suspect that a lot of those receptions will get transitioned to Moss instead. I personally would not want to assign more than 35-40 receptions to Jordan, as anything above that should be considered gravy by that point.

Good post. As one who has been arguing against the high Jordan expectations, I agree with most of your post, though I wouldn't characterize him as "one of the better fantasy RB2s this season"... unless you are talking about a 14+ team league. Two other points:

if you look at trends from Turner-coached teams you will notice that he usually runs the ball far more frequently than last season and his play calling ratio has been very close to 50/50 run/pass.

3 things here:1. This could be a chicken-egg situation. In other words, have Turner's play calling ratios been 50/50 because that is his preference or because he has had Emmitt, Davis, Allen, Tomlinson, and Williams in most of his seasons calling the plays?

I suppose if you think Jordan is as talented as that group, you might think it doesn't matter. I happen to think he is less talented, making this a legitimate question.

2. In general, how has Turner's playcalling differed when his team had one of the worst defenses in the league versus when his team had an average or better defense? I don't know the answer and don't have time to research it, but I suspect the 50/50 ratio was largely when the defense wasn't as weak as Oakland's.

3. Turner has never had one WR like Moss or a set of WRs like Moss, Porter, and Curry. (Who has, other than the 49ers?) That is a variable that makes it somewhat difficult to project what Turner will do.

I'm not saying I can say for sure what Turner will do, but I don't think it is appropriate to conclude that his playcalling will mirror his past when his current cast is not particularly similar to his past.

I think Jordan will be one of the better fantasy RB2s this season, but I don't see him vaulting over some other backs, nor do I see him ranking outside the Top 20. IMO, he's a very safe third round pick that could do better than expected, but taking him there he should at least earn back your investment.

As I posted earlier, Jordan isn't a third round pick. Or perhaps I am missing some helpful data. Yesterday I looked him up on AntSports, and found the following (for 12 team leagues that drafted since August 1, a sample size of 60+):

This game is about value and Jordan is a value pick right now. A guy being drafted 3rd or later rounds with top 10 possibility.

Where is he being drafted in the 3rd or later rounds? I agree he offers some value there, but he's going earlier.Antsports currently shows that he is going at an average spot of 2.10 as the 17th RB taken. And that is probably about where he should go IMO.

 

[David Yudkin]

I agree

there's seems to be a difference between the people that just look at figures and the people that actually watch and know the game.

It's also interesting that many anti-Jordan people seem to think they know as much about spotting RB talent as Norv Turner does.

I'm not so sure Turner has made it this far by "spotting" and acquiring talent as opposed to inheriting talent (I posted on this exensively in one of the 400 Jordan threads). IIRC, all but 1 of his great RB were there when he got there.However, if you look at trends from Turner-coached teams you will notice that he usually runs the ball far more frequently than last season and his play calling ratio has been very close to 50/50 run/pass.

The fact that Jordan was the best available free agent RB on the market really does not in itself wow me. For example, in a fantasy draft, I often will look for the best available RB in the 8th round. That does not exactly mean you get someone great with that pick. Ditto for Jordan. Other big names could have been had in a trade, but that would require losing more picks and more cap grief so that was not really an option once they got Moss.

I am not sold on Jordan's abilities but I do think he is in a great situation with a chance to get some good opportunities. As for those pointing out that the Raiders were the worst rushing team yardage wise last year, I doubt they will be near that this year.

I'd call this an A for opportunity but a C for talent, and blending those together would average out to a B for productivity. As most people have been suggesting a great season or a mediocre one, I suspect Jordan will disappoint some but win over others. I think Jordan will be one of the better fantasy RB2s this season, but I don't see him vaulting over some other backs, nor do I see him ranking outside the Top 20. IMO, he's a very safe third round pick that could do better than expected, but taking him there he should at least earn back your investment.

As for his receiving numbers, the Raiders RB corps had a TON of receptions last season, but with Moss around I suspect that a lot of those receptions will get transitioned to Moss instead. I personally would not want to assign more than 35-40 receptions to Jordan, as anything above that should be considered gravy by that point.

Good post. As one who has been arguing against the high Jordan expectations, I agree with most of your post, though I wouldn't characterize him as "one of the better fantasy RB2s this season"... unless you are talking about a 14+ team league. Two other points:

if you look at trends from Turner-coached teams you will notice that he usually runs the ball far more frequently than last season and his play calling ratio has been very close to 50/50 run/pass.

3 things here:1. This could be a chicken-egg situation. In other words, have Turner's play calling ratios been 50/50 because that is his preference or because he has had Emmitt, Davis, Allen, Tomlinson, and Williams in most of his seasons calling the plays?

I suppose if you think Jordan is as talented as that group, you might think it doesn't matter. I happen to think he is less talented, making this a legitimate question.

2. In general, how has Turner's playcalling differed when his team had one of the worst defenses in the league versus when his team had an average or better defense? I don't know the answer and don't have time to research it, but I suspect the 50/50 ratio was largely when the defense wasn't as weak as Oakland's.

3. Turner has never had one WR like Moss or a set of WRs like Moss, Porter, and Curry. (Who has, other than the 49ers?) That is a variable that makes it somewhat difficult to project what Turner will do.

I'm not saying I can say for sure what Turner will do, but I don't think it is appropriate to conclude that his playcalling will mirror his past when his current cast is not particularly similar to his past.

I think Jordan will be one of the better fantasy RB2s this season, but I don't see him vaulting over some other backs, nor do I see him ranking outside the Top 20.  IMO, he's a very safe third round pick that could do better than expected, but taking him there he should at least earn back your investment.

As I posted earlier, Jordan isn't a third round pick. Or perhaps I am missing some helpful data. Yesterday I looked him up on AntSports, and found the following (for 12 team leagues that drafted since August 1, a sample size of 60+):

This game is about value and Jordan is a value pick right now.  A guy being drafted 3rd or later rounds with top 10 possibility.

Where is he being drafted in the 3rd or later rounds? I agree he offers some value there, but he's going earlier.Antsports currently shows that he is going at an average spot of 2.10 as the 17th RB taken. And that is probably about where he should go IMO.

I don't really have the time to go point by point on this one, as I have approached this topic from 18 directions over the last few months.But I can say that Turner has had some solid WR to work with over the years and even had a year with 3 guys topping 1,000 receiving yards. He's also coached some teams with very bad defenses. And he rarely has varied too much on his play calling up until last year.

I concur that Jordan is a far cry from Dickerson, Emmitt, Davis, Williams, LT, and a couple others I might have missed, which is why I rated Jordan at a C for ability.

Bottom line, Turner's system has been very kind to RB production over the years and not as kind to passing production. Clearly the Raiders have more talent in the passing/receiving game than the ground game and that may tip the scales more to the pass in terms of play calling. But I doubt we will see the extreme ratio we did last season.

Oakland had an incredibly low number of carries and an even lower amount of RB carries. It would not surprise me in the least if they had 100 more rushing attempts this year, especially if they have any hopes of keeping their defense off of the field.

All of this points, IMO, to Jordan at least getting a shot to be prodcutive. I don't think he's a special back, but we've seen guys like Henry or Rudi and a few other guys that have not generally been thought of as elite talents still getting some decent production.

I would guess that Jordan will finish in the vicinity of the #15 RB this year, plus or minus a couple spots. His ADP has been getting into the second round. He went at 2.08 (RB17) and 2.12 (RB19) in the Staff/MB drafts last night, although a couple of weeks ago he was still available at the 2/3 round turn and very early in the third round in some drafts I was in. When he's been available at the 23-24-25-26 slots, I have not taken him as there were better options available (most notably Top 5 WR).

I think if he does go late 2nd or early 3rd he'd at least earn back his draft spot. If he starts going in the early second I'd be less apt to endorse him there.

 

[Tau837]

I don't really have the time to go point by point on this one, as I have approached this topic from 18 directions over the last few months.

But I can say that Turner has had some solid WR to work with over the years and even had a year with 3 guys topping 1,000 receiving yards. He's also coached some teams with very bad defenses. And he rarely has varied too much on his play calling up until last year.

I concur that Jordan is a far cry from Dickerson, Emmitt, Davis, Williams, LT, and a couple others I might have missed, which is why I rated Jordan at a C for ability.

Bottom line, Turner's system has been very kind to RB production over the years and not as kind to passing production. Clearly the Raiders have more talent in the passing/receiving game than the ground game and that may tip the scales more to the pass in terms of play calling. But I doubt we will see the extreme ratio we did last season.

Appreciate the response.Would you mind identifying the team of Turner's that had 3 1000 yard WRs? As far as I know, he has been Dallas OC 1991-1993, Washington HC 1994-2000, San Diego OC 2001, Miami OC 2002-2003, Oakland HC 2004-present. I know he coached the Rams' WRs before that, but to my knowledge he never had another position in which he called the offensive plays. And I'm not aware of any of those teams having 3 1000 yard WRs.

Smith excelled on those 3 Dallas teams with Irvin also dominant. But Dallas had an excellent defense and possibly had one of the best offensive lines of all time. Apples and oranges IMO.

In 1994 Ellard had a great year for Turner in Washington, but there was no particularly good RB. However, in 1999, Westbrook and Connell each had over 1100 yards, and Davis performed well, while the Washington defense was awful (29th in yards allowed). That's one good example.

In San Diego Conway had a good season while Tomlinson excelled. San Diego's defense was very good though, and Conway is obviously no Moss.

There are no other good examples in Miami or last year in Oakland.

So in 14 seasons, it appears to me that there was one occasion that comes close to the current situation. I still don't see his hype as justified, but at least that is some ammunition for the pro-Jordan folks.

Davis was RB4 that season, but that was primarily due to him scoring 17 TDs. That's probably the only way Jordan can get close to the top 10 himself... lots of TDs. Reasons why he may not get too many TDs have already been addressed.

Oh, and since Davis appears to be the best comparison I can find, note that he had 23/111/0 that season in 14 games. I'm sure everyone here will respond that Jordan is a better receiver, which is very possible... just thought it was of possible interest.

 

[Anarchy99]

I don't really have the time to go point by point on this one, as I have approached this topic from 18 directions over the last few months.

But I can say that Turner has had some solid WR to work with over the years and even had a year with 3 guys topping 1,000 receiving yards.  He's also coached some teams with very bad defenses.  And he rarely has varied too much on his play calling up until last year.

I concur that Jordan is a far cry from Dickerson, Emmitt, Davis, Williams, LT, and a couple others I might have missed, which is why I rated Jordan at a C for ability.

Bottom line, Turner's system has been very kind to RB production over the years and not as kind to passing production.  Clearly the Raiders have more talent in the passing/receiving game than the ground game and that may tip the scales more to the pass in terms of play calling.  But I doubt we will see the extreme ratio we did last season.

Appreciate the response.Would you mind identifying the team of Turner's that had 3 1000 yard WRs? As far as I know, he has been Dallas OC 1991-1993, Washington HC 1994-2000, San Diego OC 2001, Miami OC 2002-2003, Oakland HC 2004-present. I know he coached the Rams' WRs before that, but to my knowledge he never had another position in which he called the offensive plays. And I'm not aware of any of those teams having 3 1000 yard WRs.

Smith excelled on those 3 Dallas teams with Irvin also dominant. But Dallas had an excellent defense and possibly had one of the best offensive lines of all time. Apples and oranges IMO.

In 1994 Ellard had a great year for Turner in Washington, but there was no particularly good RB. However, in 1999, Westbrook and Connell each had over 1100 yards, and Davis performed well, while the Washington defense was awful (29th in yards allowed). That's one good example.

In San Diego Conway had a good season while Tomlinson excelled. San Diego's defense was very good though, and Conway is obviously no Moss.

There are no other good examples in Miami or last year in Oakland.

So in 14 seasons, it appears to me that there was one occasion that comes close to the current situation. I still don't see his hype as justified, but at least that is some ammunition for the pro-Jordan folks.

Davis was RB4 that season, but that was primarily due to him scoring 17 TDs. That's probably the only way Jordan can get close to the top 10 himself... lots of TDs. Reasons why he may not get too many TDs have already been addressed.

Oh, and since Davis appears to be the best comparison I can find, note that he had 23/111/0 that season in 14 games. I'm sure everyone here will respond that Jordan is a better receiver, which is very possible... just thought it was of possible interest.

Now that I think about it, Washington had 3 1,000 yard WR in 1989 under Gibbs which was well before Turner got there. My bad.In one of the other Jordan/Collins/Porter threads, I posted the numbers for Turner WR. On occasion he had two guys with 1,000 yards on the same team but most of the time the numbers were not as high. Of course, he din't normally have the talent level of Oakland, so that may be an unfair comparison.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

I agree

there's seems to be a difference between the people that just look at figures and the people that actually watch and know the game.

It's also interesting that many anti-Jordan people seem to think they know as much about spotting RB talent as Norv Turner does.

If Turner was as good with Hambrick and Zereoue, then you should be in for a treat.

 

[zamboni]

I agree

there's seems to be a difference between the people that just look at figures and the people that actually watch and know the game.

It's also interesting that many anti-Jordan people seem to think they know as much about spotting RB talent as Norv Turner does.

If Turner was as good with Hambrick and Zereoue, then you should be in for a treat.

I don't think Norv had any grand visions of Hambrick, Zereoue, Fargas, Wheatley, et al. IIRC, they made a huge push to get Corey Dillon, but lost out to the Pats. They weren't left with many options with the rookie draft having already taken place.

 

[LawFitz]

I agree

there's seems to be a difference between the people that just look at figures and the people that actually watch and know the game.

It's also interesting that many anti-Jordan people seem to think they know as much about spotting RB talent as Norv Turner does.

If Turner was as good with Hambrick and Zereoue, then you should be in for a treat.

Dude get over Hambrick and Zero. They weren't hand picked by anyone, but rather left over scraps that the Raiders settled for after the lost out on Dillon.Plus, Norv didn't solely pick Jordan. Al's had a hard on for the guy since his rookie year and this offseason, the team's prior opinions were confirmed by Jimmy Raye, current OC and former Jets assistant. Plus, why is it that most NFL GM's think very highly of Jordan? I suspect the reason the Raiders paid so much had less to do with panicking and more with a small handful of other teams offering something comparable.

Comparing the Jordan pickup to Hambrick/Zero is ridiculous bro.

Look Jordan is unproven, but he's big, talented, fresh and on a team that will barely see 7 man fronts, yet less 8 in the box. He's gonna produce if he stays healthy despite what the myopic Raider-haters on the board think.

 

[Raiders Fan]

Look Jordan is unproven, but he's big, talented, fresh and on a team that will barely see 7 man fronts, yet less 8 in the box. He's gonna produce if he stays healthy despite what the myopic Raider-haters on the board think.

Thats the point.. People will worry about the passing game.. The improving O-Line will further help him.. Telling you he will be a very solid RB and easily pass his draft position in production.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

Look Jordan is unproven, but he's big, talented, fresh and on a team that will barely see 7 man fronts, yet less 8 in the box. He's gonna produce if he stays healthy despite what the myopic Raider-haters on the board think.

Thats the point.. People will worry about the passing game.. The improving O-Line will further help him.. Telling you he will be a very solid RB and easily pass his draft position in production.

Thats exactly the kind of comments I am arguing against. Jordan is being drafted around the 15-20 RB. To "EASILY" outproduce his ADP he is going to have to blow up and he isn't going to "EASILY " do that.

Jordan isn't this big value play that you are making him out to be.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

I agree

there's seems to be a difference between the people that just look at figures and the people that actually watch and know the game.

It's also interesting that many anti-Jordan people seem to think they know as much about spotting RB talent as Norv Turner does.

If Turner was as good with Hambrick and Zereoue, then you should be in for a treat.

Dude get over Hambrick and Zero. They weren't hand picked by anyone, but rather left over scraps that the Raiders settled for after the lost out on Dillon.Plus, Norv didn't solely pick Jordan. Al's had a hard on for the guy since his rookie year and this offseason, the team's prior opinions were confirmed by Jimmy Raye, current OC and former Jets assistant. Plus, why is it that most NFL GM's think very highly of Jordan? I suspect the reason the Raiders paid so much had less to do with panicking and more with a small handful of other teams offering something comparable.

Comparing the Jordan pickup to Hambrick/Zero is ridiculous bro.

Look Jordan is unproven, but he's big, talented, fresh and on a team that will barely see 7 man fronts, yet less 8 in the box. He's gonna produce if he stays healthy despite what the myopic Raider-haters on the board think.

Jordan hardly got recruited by any teams during his FA period. What teams did you hear him going to visit or being the front runners for his services besides the Raiders? He signed with the Raiders about 3 days after the FA period began.What teams did you hear offer anything comparable? I have heard of none, except for the Jets which was probably no where near what he got in Oakland.

 

[LawFitz]

Look Jordan is unproven, but he's big, talented, fresh and on a team that will barely see 7 man fronts, yet less 8 in the box. He's gonna produce if he stays healthy despite what the myopic Raider-haters on the board think.

Thats the point.. People will worry about the passing game.. The improving O-Line will further help him.. Telling you he will be a very solid RB and easily pass his draft position in production.

Thats exactly the kind of comments I am arguing against. Jordan is being drafted around the 15-20 RB. To "EASILY" outproduce his ADP he is going to have to blow up and he isn't going to "EASILY " do that.

Jordan isn't this big value play that you are making him out to be.

Here's the deal... Jordan, like you said, will be drafted as the #15-20 RB. What I'm saying is barring injury, I believe he will be at least the #15 RB and if the stars align just right, he could be #5-10. He will outperform his draft status relative to other RBs if he stays on the field for 16 games.

 

[JAMMIN]

Man is Jordan gonna get some yards this year. If I draft him in a td that gives bonuses for 100+ yd games I would be smiling. The holes he will see will be Jenna Jamesons size.

 

[Raiders Fan]

Look Jordan is unproven, but he's big, talented, fresh and on a team that will barely see 7 man fronts, yet less 8 in the box. He's gonna produce if he stays healthy despite what the myopic Raider-haters on the board think. 

Thats the point.. People will worry about the passing game.. The improving O-Line will further help him.. Telling you he will be a very solid RB and easily pass his draft position in production.

Thats exactly the kind of comments I am arguing against. Jordan is being drafted around the 15-20 RB. To "EASILY" outproduce his ADP he is going to have to blow up and he isn't going to "EASILY " do that.

Jordan isn't this big value play that you are making him out to be.

Here's the deal... Jordan, like you said, will be drafted as the #15-20 RB. What I'm saying is barring injury, I believe he will be at least the #15 RB and if the stars align just right, he could be #5-10. He will outperform his draft status relative to other RBs if he stays on the field for 16 games.

Do you realize the difference between 15th and 10th in RB's was 11FP.. In a league that doesn't use PPR.. A simple 1/10 and 6 for every TD. Say he doesn't get 300 carries. Lets say he avg's 15 a game.. Even if he avg's 4.5 YPC thats almost 1100 rushing. The receiving part is hard to judge but some say 45 rec. is a good number. Say that translates to 400 yards. Be conservative 6TD's rushing and 2 receiving.. That alone woulf make him the 9th best RB last year in my scoring. Too me those numbers he can reach easily. I guess your bent on cruching numbers with Amos/Wheatley/Hambrick/Crockett. Keep thinking those guys are running the ball..

 

[4 - Digit Shark]

I'll be honest, I haven't read this entire thread, and don't have final projections finished for Jordan, but I play in a PPR league, and I will be targeting him for the following reason:Last year under Norv, the OAK RB's caught a total of 116/778/0, being lead by Amos with 39/284/0. The WR's totaled only 165 receptions, and I know that number should go up with the addition of Moss, but 116 is a good bit of receptions. If Jordan plays on 3rd downs, he may make up for a lack of TD's (that he may lose to Crockett) with a higher total yardage output then some are expecting. And if your in a PPR scoring system, he could be even more valueable. Has anyone heard anything about Jordan, or any other OAK RB playing on 3rd downs? As far as I have heard, he will be the 3rd down RB. Who else is going to play on 3rd downs? And, please don't say Justin Fargas.I think 50+ receptions is a real possibility.

 

[Anarchy99]

I'll be honest, I haven't read this entire thread, and don't have final projections finished for Jordan, but I play in a PPR league, and I will be targeting him for the following reason:

Last year under Norv, the OAK RB's caught a total of 116/778/0, being lead by Amos with 39/284/0. The WR's totaled only 165 receptions, and I know that number should go up with the addition of Moss, but 116 is a good bit of receptions. If Jordan plays on 3rd downs, he may make up for a lack of TD's (that he may lose to Crockett) with a higher total yardage output then some are expecting. And if your in a PPR scoring system, he could be even more valueable. Has anyone heard anything about Jordan, or any other OAK RB playing on 3rd downs? As far as I have heard, he will be the 3rd down RB. Who else is going to play on 3rd downs? And, please don't say Justin Fargas.

I think 50+ receptions is a real possibility.

I suspect that the high total of RB receptions was due to a lack of production running the ball. So to make some space for RB they dumped it off. With Moss in town, I think the number of RB receptions will go down substantially.As for Jordan getting 50 receptions, I'd say it's a possibility, but only 7 RB had that many last year.

 

[Twisted]

Someone just took LJ over Deuce McAllister in a league. 1,254 rushing - 7 TDs42 receptions - 379 yds - 2 TDs

 

[Ron the Don]

Heard Norv Turner on the Raiders pregame radio show. He said (as much as I can recall wrod for word) that "if Jordan has two or three carries in a row, or gains 10 yards on a play, we won't be shy about bringing in Crockett to give him a breather. We won't let Jordan get worn down."Not positive he was talking about the regular season and not just tonight, but I believe so.Take it for what it's worth.

 

[BassNBrew]

 

[Raiders Fan]

This had to be bumped.. I am dying reading some of the posts in it.. Friday got to love your reasoning.. Right now we are 2 games from half way and he's hit or is near everybody's TD predictions.. Including mine where I said 8-10TD's.. He could hit 15 combined...

QUOTE(Raiders Fan @ Aug 13 2005, 06:40 AM)He did and was NEEDED.. I liked having him but he wasn't the complete back.. He was good between teh 20's.. That allowed the Raiders to use a commitee method of moving the ball.. If you look at Jordan.. He has everything it takes to be an all around back. Your going to be surprised this year if you honestly think the plan last year will be the same this year. Baring injury. Jordan is a LOCK for 1200 and between 8-10TD's rushing. He still has a higher upside IF the Raiders stay close in games. I am surprised there are so many non believers out there.