Please Read - "Who's Hottest?" Type Threads - And An Apology (1 Viewer)

[Joe Bryant]

Maybe. 

I have to be one of the posters that's been here the longest.  I also don't use any other board of any kind, though I've been known to dabble :e:lsewhere. 

I understand the reaction of grown men being told by another grown man not to do something. Frankly, I deal with it on a daily basis. And change sucks almost always for those that enjoy the status quo.

Had Joe asked me I would have said kill the whose hottest stuff,  keep the 50 and older thread, and tone down the yoga pants and any other sexually charged picture thread not for any other reason than some of them really needed and age check and many of us stay in here during work---and there have been standards here that while not concrete, have been noticeable. 

But those pictures and threads never defined this place.  I could easily argue that the community built here was built because that wasn't the definition of this place.  We had and hopefully still have something more. 

I've had members here reach out me when my wife miscarried and I was so devastated I couldn't function.  I've helped real people here with legal work.  I've actually suffered emotionally from the losses of some here as if they were family. 

Because in this ridiculously stupid technological world we live in,  "knowing" someone for almost 20 years by way of a message board basically makes them family if you put a little time into it. 

And many of us have put the time into it.  It's still worth it.  This doesn't change that.  For me.  

But, note.... I'm about 60% through a new bottle of bourbon and have had to check my spelling so much that auto correct has basically given up. 





5

Thanks @Yankee23Fan  I'm 100% with you. 

 

[Scoresman]

Thanks @Yankee23Fan  I'm with you. I think the bolded is the biggest bummer. I completely agree with you. But obviously for some, that kind of talk did define the place and not having it is turning the forums 180 degrees in direction. I'm 100% with you. But not everyone thinks that way.

If I say you’re being a bit obtuse here will you put me in the hole for 2 months?

 

[encaitar]

Thanks @Yankee23Fan  I'm with you. I think the bolded is the biggest bummer. I completely agree with you. But obviously for some, that kind of talk did define the place and not having it is turning the forums 180 degrees in direction. I'm 100% with you. But not everyone thinks that way.

I think you're missing the point.  It's not just about the threads, although I will miss them.  I liken it to hanging out at a buddy's garage for 20 years watching football every Saturday only for him to randomly start asking everyone to stop swearing while they're at his house.  Sure, you're there to hangout with buddies and drink some beers and swearing or not swearing shouldn't make a difference in your enjoyment of the day..... but it does.  

 

[Ghost Rider]

This one?

Yes. And it’s a honest question: you are okay with posts that suggest all men are sexual harassers?

 

[Ned]

Those particular threads aren’t my thing, but I wanted to chime in on the “oh well, find another board if you don’t like it” sentiment that took up most of the first 10 pages. 

One of the biggest things that differentiates this board from the rest of the Internet is the sense of community from almost 20 years talking to a surprisingly consistent group of people. I’ve probably met up with 40 of the posters here for different things. Some of us spend an amazing amount of time here and care about other people here. For me personally,  Joe’s “plenty of other boards” mentality is way more frustrating than any policy change. It’s clear to me that they don’t really understand why these boards are so successful.  The core posters here don’t just bail when something happens we don’t like. We’re too invested for that. We fight to make/keep the community awesome. Now, is this the place to take a stand? Not for me, but I’ll say if we lose a big core of our regulars over this and the subsequent “too bad, my house” rhetoric that is a big deal to me. It’s not as easy as you think to just recreate this somewhere else. 

Best response in this whole thread. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

Yes. And it’s a honest question: you are okay with posts that suggest all men are sexual harassers?

No, of course that's not ok to say. But I think that's where context matters. I know enough of squistion to know I don't think that's how it was meant. And then the words following that said we can't allow talk like that. But I can see how it might be read wrong. But who knows, you could be right and I could be the one reading it wrong. But if you're wrong and there's a deletion or suspension, then the writer was wronged and it builds from there. That's part of the challenge with moderating. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

I think you're missing the point.  It's not just about the threads, although I will miss them.  I liken it to hanging out at a buddy's garage for 20 years watching football every Saturday only for him to randomly start asking everyone to stop swearing while they're at his house.  Sure, you're there to hangout with buddies and drink some beers and swearing or not swearing shouldn't make a difference in your enjoyment of the day..... but it does.  

Understood. I totally get the point. I edited my post just to say I agree with @Yankee23Fan

 

[Zegras11]

There is a great diversity of cultures/experiences/quick wit here. For those that can get past political/religious views (or anything else that is a non-debatable topic) there is a wonderful collection of knowledge here that has helped many people including those that have had some tragedy in their lives or asking for some advice on many types of situations and topics.  There is still a lot of good in the FFA. 

And every once in awhile, seeing the Over 50 thread gave us the much needed break in our day/lives that puts a smile back on our face and that brief bit of respite one might need on a tough day. That's one aspect that really makes this place great IMO.

I get why the WH thread needs to go.  The other threads were not close to that level at all and they should not be removed. 

Having a little trouble with all of this happening after all the CN posts and then being told they had nothing to do with the decision. WTF.

Being a positive person, this will pass and I'll focus on the things you mentioned as this is a great place. I've made a lot of great friends here. We will keep doing good for people that need it.

Also want to add that I was in the industry for 25 years. I've met Joe and David several times. I get where they are coming from. The poster that thinks these forums generate a ton of revenue or adds a lot of value to the business when selling could not be more wrong. They have these boards because it adds value to their customers who spend money on their products, and amazingly, this place turned into something special that you really can't find anywhere else.

LOL... As I finish typing this, my wife just told me w/o knowing I'm commenting on this subject that Christie Brinkley is smoking hot for being 64 years old.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

70%....

 

[gianmarco]

If the last board upgrade didn't get rid of folks, nothing will.

 

[KCitons]

And every once in awhile, seeing the Over 50 thread gave us the much needed break in our day/lives that puts a smile back on our face and that brief bit of respite one might need on a tough day. That's one aspect that really makes this place great IMO.

I get why the WH thread needs to go.  The other threads were not close to that level at all and they should not be removed. 

Having a little trouble with all of this happening after all the CN posts and then being told they had nothing to do with the decision. WTF.

Being a positive person, this will pass and I'll focus on the things you mentioned as this is a great place. I've made a lot of great friends here. We will keep doing good for people that need it.

Also want to add that I was in the industry for 25 years. I've met Joe and David several times. I get where they are coming from. The poster that thinks these forums generate a ton of revenue or adds a lot of value to the business when selling could not be more wrong. They have these boards because it adds value to their customers who spend money on their products.

LOL... As I finish typing this, my wife just told me w/o knowing I'm commenting on this subject that Christie Brinkley is smoking hot for being 64 years old.

Then it's not a business decision. Which is fine. It's a personal decision. Which is what a lot of posters are questioning. How do you allow certain things to remain? Is Joe personally ok with those other things? I think this is where the hypocrisy statements are coming from. 

Either way, it won't make a big difference. Some people enjoyed the who's hottest threads, others probably didn't know they existed, and a vast majority never paid them much attention. If this is the worst thing that's happened this week, it's been a pretty good week. 

 

[Clayton Gray]

Joe,

I’ve come to peace with the decision.  But for you to not understand how this is 180 degrees from what you have allowed for 20 years (and even encouraged through a moderator-ran babe bracket) is baffling to me. 

Yeah, I ran the Babe Bracket for a while. Just because something was done in the past doesn't mean it's okay now. My younger self did a lot of things my current self wouldn't do.

 

[Zegras11]

Then it's not a business decision. Which is fine. It's a personal decision. Which is what a lot of posters are questioning. How do you allow certain things to remain? Is Joe personally ok with those other things? I think this is where the hypocrisy statements are coming from. 

Either way, it won't make a big difference. Some people enjoyed the who's hottest threads, others probably didn't know they existed, and a vast majority never paid them much attention. If this is the worst thing that's happened this week, it's been a pretty good week. 

I think it has to be somewhat of a business decision as your personal decisions will dictate how you want to run your business, and Joe has clearly stated that. This decision won't change the bottom line much at all. We've seen some say they won't buy products in the future, and a few others say they will buy when they haven't recently.

I doubt the main core of people who post here account for more than one percent of the customer base. I've been a customer/site visitor since day 1, and only found the FFA 10 years ago. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

Who was the moderator who wrote the FFA FAQ? 

I absolutely know that Joe was OK with this stuff in the past. He might have changed his mind since, and if he'd be honest about that, then it'd be fine. But he's lying now when he says he was never comfortable with it.

Which is why it's a 180.

I don't understand why Joe can't admit he changed his mind. People do that. You just did it. You're not rewriting history and denying stuff you did. There's nothing wrong with admitting you've grown, or saying that you came to a new conclusion.

But deliberately being obtuse is just dumb here. 





1

Of course I changed my mind. I think that's obvious. I was ok with it and then became not ok with it. I realized I was wrong and came to a new conclusion about what the policy would be. 

 

[Slapdash]

I do think there is a useful point that the best moderators are part of the community actively (unless they are trolling).

This whole faceless mod that doesn't take PMs concept is pretty awful and has contributed to me posting here less.

 

[culdeus]

I do think there is a useful point that the best moderators are part of the community actively (unless they are trolling).

This whole faceless mod that doesn't take PMs concept is pretty awful and has contributed to me posting here less.

Faceless mod came out of the shick incident iirc. It made sense at the time. 

 

[Yankee23Fan]

And every once in awhile, seeing the Over 50 thread gave us the much needed break in our day/lives that puts a smile back on our face and that brief bit of respite one might need on a tough day. That's one aspect that really makes this place great IMO.

I get why the WH thread needs to go.  The other threads were not close to that level at all and they should not be removed. 

Having a little trouble with all of this happening after all the CN posts and then being told they had nothing to do with the decision. WTF.

Being a positive person, this will pass and I'll focus on the things you mentioned as this is a great place. I've made a lot of great friends here. We will keep doing good for people that need it.

Also want to add that I was in the industry for 25 years. I've met Joe and David several times. I get where they are coming from. The poster that thinks these forums generate a ton of revenue or adds a lot of value to the business when selling could not be more wrong. They have these boards because it adds value to their customers who spend money on their products, and amazingly, this place turned into something special that you really can't find anywhere else.

LOL... As I finish typing this, my wife just told me w/o knowing I'm commenting on this subject that Christie Brinkley is smoking hot for being 64 years old.

We saw the same commercial....she is gorgeous...

 

[Joe Bryant]

I do think there is a useful point that the best moderators are part of the community actively (unless they are trolling).

This whole faceless mod that doesn't take PMs concept is pretty awful and has contributed to me posting here less.

That's a fair point Slapdash. What we found was some of the people who were suspended or had posts deleted didn't react favorably. Which I understand. And since the moderators all used their real names, it became a problem for some. But I understand the other side too. 

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Yeah, I ran the Babe Bracket for a while. Just because something was done in the past doesn't mean it's okay now. My younger self did a lot of things my current self wouldn't do.

Tell me about it. My wife reminds me about my age every time I..... never mind. Joe's reading.

 

[Clayton Gray]

Who was the moderator who wrote the FFA FAQ?  




 

I don't remember who wrote it initially, but I believe several have added to it.

 

[Juxtatarot]

I don't remember who wrote it initially, but I believe several have added to it.

DS wrote it orginally.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

I don't remember who wrote it initially, but I believe several have added to it.

Shick! wrote the original version

 

[Clayton Gray]

DS wrote it orginally.

Makes sense.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I don't remember who wrote it initially, but I believe several have added to it.

But to the point, I was good with it. It wouldn't have been on the boards as the FAQ if I wasn't. So to be clear, my thoughts on the issue changed. 

 

[Capella]

I do think there is a useful point that the best moderators are part of the community actively (unless they are trolling).

This whole faceless mod that doesn't take PMs concept is pretty awful and has contributed to me posting here less.

I disagree here. There are some legitimate insane people here who could easily do something to affect one of the mods, especially with how easily info is obtained in 2018. I mean, you don’t use your real name and nor should you imo.  

As for returning PMs it never occurred to me to send one to that account. Rude is a great dude who almost always answers questions. 

 

[Slapdash]

That's a fair point Slapdash. What we found was some of the people who were suspended or had posts deleted didn't react favorably. Which I understand. And since the moderators all used their real names, it became a problem for some. But I understand the other side too. 

Yes, I remember the Shick thing and get that too.  At least make it leave notes so people know what they're banned for.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Yes, I remember the Shick thing and get that too.  At least make it leave notes so people know what they're banned for.

Yes. I can see how that would be helpful. I'll ask the guys and see what is needed there as I"m not sure how the process works for the person who is suspended and what they see or how it work with a note or something. 

 

[Nick Vermeil]

I’m not a heavy poster but am heavy lurker and  have been around a long time.  I didn’t leave when my original name was stolen from me because of that ###### spoofing the NFL doctor’s name and I likely won’t leave now. 

I just want to say to Joe that the FFA has become my internet. For better or worse.  It’s the page that opens first when I start wasting my day at work and that is because of the variety of personalities and topics and frankly the expertise from home improvement to music to Instagram models. I’m already on the fence of resubscribing due to the Dodds nonsense but further censoring of the ffa content is distressing. I understand moderation, I don’t really go for all out censoring. I would hope a middle ground could be found. I don’t want to leave fbg for the sake of who’s hottest, but to steal a phrase from the conservative whack jobs, it’s slippery slope. 

 

[snogger]

Maybe. 

I have to be one of the posters that's been here the longest.  I also don't use any other board of any kind, though I've been known to dabble :e:lsewhere. 

I understand the reaction of grown men being told by another grown man not to do something. Frankly, I deal with it on a daily basis. And change sucks almost always for those that enjoy the status quo.

Had Joe asked me I would have said kill the whose hottest stuff,  keep the 50 and older thread, and tone down the yoga pants and any other sexually charged picture thread not for any other reason than some of them really needed and age check and many of us stay in here during work---and there have been standards here that while not concrete, have been noticeable. 

But those pictures and threads never defined this place.  I could easily argue that the community built here was built because that wasn't the definition of this place.  We had and hopefully still have something more. 

I've had members here reach out me when my wife miscarried and I was so devastated I couldn't function.  I've helped real people here with legal work.  I've actually suffered emotionally from the losses of some here as if they were family. 

Because in this ridiculously stupid technological world we live in,  "knowing" someone for almost 20 years by way of a message board basically makes them family if you put a little time into it. 

And many of us have put the time into it.  It's still worth it.  This doesn't change that.  For me.  

But, note.... I'm about 60% through a new bottle of bourbon and have had to check my spelling so much that auto correct has basically given up. 

When my sister and her daughter's lostmost of their items in an apartment fire this place destroyed the "internet friends aren't friends" statement. When I am on my last breath, hopefully 40+ years from now, I'll still choke up a bit thinking how many "Not real friends" stepped up.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

what i find the funniest part of all this thread deleting is the worst threads are in the Political Forum....its nothing but bashing and insults...people literally gang up on and attack certain members for liking Trump or his policies ...ive seen the words ''be excellent to each other'' many times in THIS thread  ...lets just cut the crap and see things for what they really are ...things lean to the far left in FBG and thats a fact...the site should be named Liberalfootballpersons

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Yes. I can see how that would be helpful. I'll ask the guys and see what is needed there as I"m not sure how the process works for the person who is suspended and what they see or how it work with a note or something. 

How it works is you try to open the forum and all you get is a page that says what date it will work again. That's it 

 

[snogger]

what i find the funniest part of all this thread deleting is the worst threads are in the Political Forum....its nothing but bashing and insults...people literally gang up on and attack certain members for liking Trump or his policies ...ive seen the words ''be excellent to each other'' many times in THIS thread  ...lets just cut the crap and see things for what they really are ...things lean to the far left in FBG and thats a fact...the site should be named Liberalfootballpersons

during the Obama years the "this board is nothing but a bunch of right leaning posters" was stated... it is the nature of the beast.. whoever is "in power" will almost always have more out spoken people who disagree with them.  

Not to mention, people like myself who are independents have decided it just isn't worth trying to give the "middle of the road" view point as you get hammered from both sides.

 

[Joe Bryant]

How it works is you try to open the forum and all you get is a page that says what date it will work again. That's it 

Thanks. I'll ask Keith what we can do there. 

 

[shuke]

Those particular threads aren’t my thing, but I wanted to chime in on the “oh well, find another board if you don’t like it” sentiment that took up most of the first 10 pages. 

One of the biggest things that differentiates this board from the rest of the Internet is the sense of community from almost 20 years talking to a surprisingly consistent group of people. I’ve probably met up with 40 of the posters here for different things. Some of us spend an amazing amount of time here and care about other people here. For me personally,  Joe’s “plenty of other boards” mentality is way more frustrating than any policy change. It’s clear to me that they don’t really understand why these boards are so successful.  The core posters here don’t just bail when something happens we don’t like. We’re too invested for that. We fight to make/keep the community awesome. Now, is this the place to take a stand? Not for me, but I’ll say if we lose a big core of our regulars over this and the subsequent “too bad, my house” rhetoric that is a big deal to me. It’s not as easy as you think to just recreate this somewhere else. 

Great post.  It's been said multiple times in here but Joe doesn't want to discuss it.  

I guess I'm mostly disappointed that it came to this, rather than having an open discussion about how we should curtail certain topics and find a way to maturely continue others.  But the "other boards out there" statements are is so condescending.

But I don't care any more.  The amount of time I've spent thinking about this the past few days is embarrassing.  I need a reason to spend less time here anyway, at least during work hours and late at night when I should be sleeping.  

 

[trident]

This equates to a "Get Off My Lawn" moment.

 

[xulf]

Thanks for the notice there. Agreed that was over the line and I locked it. That's a good point though - I think there's some sort of idea that every single one of the thousand posts a day are looked at and approved. That's obviously not remotely close to reality. But that's how it seems when it goes to the "they allow _______ but not _________"  In most cases, it's not allowing. It's not seeing it. It's why we ask people to report things they see that are over the line. Thanks. 

So, we should report all posts?

 

[Joe Bryant]

So, we should report all posts?

Yes, please report anything that you feel is well over the line for what should be allowed. 

 

[xulf]

Yes, please report anything that you feel is well over the line for what should be allowed. 

Ok...you are reported.

 

[Clayton Gray]

Ok...you are reported.

Please stop.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

during the Obama years the "this board is nothing but a bunch of right leaning posters" was stated... it is the nature of the beast.. whoever is "in power" will almost always have more out spoken people who disagree with them.  

Not to mention, people like myself who are independents have decided it just isn't worth trying to give the "middle of the road" view point as you get hammered from both sides.

well im an independent as well ...i both like and hate certain views from both sides....my point is if the mods want to start ''cleaning up its image '' dont forget to poke their collective heads in on the political thread ...and on a side note its NEVER been as hateful as it is now since Trump won ...its not just here ...its everywhere 

 

[Joe Bryant]

Great post.  It's been said multiple times in here but Joe doesn't want to discuss it.  

I guess I'm mostly disappointed that it came to this, rather than having an open discussion about how we should curtail certain topics and find a way to maturely continue others.  But the "other boards out there" statements are is so condescending.

But I don't care any more.  The amount of time I've spent thinking about this the past few days is embarrassing.  I need a reason to spend less time here anyway, at least during work hours and late at night when I should be sleeping.  

I apologize for sounding condescending. That's the last thing I want to do there. There are some things though where I truly don't have an answer if someone doesn't like a policy. I should probably just say I don't have any answer. I see what you're saying about other boards.

 

[Scoresman]

I told my wife she looked beautiful today and now feel like a complete jerk for objectifying her like that. 

 

[snogger]

well im an independent as well ...i both like and hate certain views from both sides....my point is if the mods want to start ''cleaning up its image '' dont forget to poke their collective heads in on the political thread ...and on a side note its NEVER been as hateful as it is now since Trump won ...its not just here ...its everywhere 

There were a LOT of hateful/racist post right after Obama was elected his first term.. Many suspensions, time outs, and some outright bans happened.. and to be fair, it is probably why a separate forum was createc as at times the FFA was nothing but political topics... Trump, for better or worse brings out the worst in people with his constant twitter

I dislike Trump enough, and realize he has some very vocal supporters, that I don't even bother trying to give an opinion there now. 

 

[skol asylum]

well im an independent as well ...i both like and hate certain views from both sides....my point is if the mods want to start ''cleaning up its image '' dont forget to poke their collective heads in on the political thread ...and on a side note its NEVER been as hateful as it is now since Trump won ...its not just here ...its everywhere 

Not appropriate topic for this thread, but maybe you should spend some self reflection time to understand why that may be.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Not appropriate topic for this thread, but maybe you should spend some self reflection time to understand why that may be.

self reflection? 

 

[skol asylum]

self reflection? 

My apologies if I've incorrectly lumped you in with a group of about 10 vocal Trump supporters here who have taken to being victims for being called out in supporting the jerk in the oval office and generally living in some sort of alternate MAGA reality. 

Anyways, I shouldn't have responded at all here. Just think that there may be a bit of an agenda for that same group to use this thread as some sort of attempt to whine and complain looking for support of this agenda.

 

[Donkey Derp]

If someone truly cared about the image the FFA portrayed, the politics subforum would have been the very first thing to be nuked.  It's amazing that thing is allowed to persist. 

 

[BustedKnuckles]

My apologies if I've incorrectly lumped you in with a group of about 10 vocal Trump supporters here who have taken to being victims for being called out in supporting the jerk in the oval office and generally living in some sort of alternate MAGA reality. 

i dont go into that forum ...its just a giant crap show 

I like some things that Trump is doing...and hate some other things he does or has done....but as you just did you ''lumped'' me in ...which is what is going on over there...im the last person that anyone who knows me ,would call racist ...but anyone who says anything positive about trump is branded a racist...thats just one of many many things thats wrong in that forum...point is these rating women threads have been around for some time and are just now being stopped...yet the crap that goes on in the political threads is still going on ...thats all im saying

 

[BustedKnuckles]

If someone truly cared about the image the FFA portrayed, the politics subforum would have been the very first thing to be nuked.  It's amazing that thing is allowed to persist. 

exactly

 

[shuke]

My apologies if I've incorrectly lumped you in with a group of about 10 vocal Trump supporters here who have taken to being victims for being called out in supporting the jerk in the oval office and generally living in some sort of alternate MAGA reality. 

Get this crap out of here.