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Post here when coaches do something you disagree with (2 Viewers)

Both challenges in the second half by the Rams were bad.  Felt like McVay was panicking a little both times.  Good thing the Rams won, otherwise he would have worn the dunce hat. 

 
Two minute clock management…

On defense, use the TOs before the two minute warning unless it under 2:07 ish.

The two minute warning is like a timeout, but if you let 30 seconds run off the clock before the stoppage, you have basically just cost yourself that timeout.

 
Not necessarily “dumb”, but irksome.

Niners had the ball. It’s 4th & 2. They tried to draw the Rams offsides. Failed. Called TO & punted. 

I would have liked some aggressiveness there. They punted. I did not love it. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Not necessarily “dumb”, but irksome.

Niners had the ball. It’s 4th & 2. They tried to draw the Rams offsides. Failed. Called TO & punted. 

I would have liked some aggressiveness there. They punted. I did not love it. 
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The risk was giving the ball back in a great spot, but they did seem to have the Rams D on their heels. I thought that if they went, they actually had a good shot to make it.  

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Not necessarily “dumb”, but irksome.

Niners had the ball. It’s 4th & 2. They tried to draw the Rams offsides. Failed. Called TO & punted. 

I would have liked some aggressiveness there. They punted. I did not love it. 
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It would have been much worse if they called timeout. They just took the delay of game penalty.

I thought going for it would have been worthwhile though.

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Not necessarily “dumb”, but irksome.

Niners had the ball. It’s 4th & 2. They tried to draw the Rams offsides. Failed. Called TO & punted. 

I would have liked some aggressiveness there. They punted. I did not love it. 
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I’ll say it. It was dumb. I don’t think win probability models are the be-all-end-all, but the 4th down bot had  going for it as +5.4% WP, which is huge. More qualitatively, you have Deebo, Kittle, Trent Williams … put it on their shoulders and put  the game away.

And he will get 1/10 the crap for making that decision at the most important moment of SF’s season as Staley got for going for it in a Thursday Night Football game during the regular season. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Not necessarily “dumb”, but irksome.

Niners had the ball. It’s 4th & 2. They tried to draw the Rams offsides. Failed. Called TO & punted. 

I would have liked some aggressiveness there. They punted. I did not love it. 
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Lot of coaches turtle up. You saw McVay call B2B third down & long screens rather than trust 13 year QB. He turtled up the week before VS TB as well.

 
Gally said:
It would have been much worse if they called timeout. They just took the delay of game penalty.

I thought going for it would have been worthwhile though.
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Oh yeah - sorry, I’m still slightly distraught. You’re correct. They took the penalty & punted. Sigh. 

 
Rally Monkey said:
I was pulling for the Chiefs.

The play calling lost that game.

To the people questioning why Bienemy isnt getting a job.  

Not just his history with crimes, but...he is not as good of a play caller as everyone thinks he is. 

That game is my proof. 

And in that Bengals game. I know Perine is their 3rd down back and made a good run that even Mixon could do, but Mixon is better and smarter as Perine went the wrong way and almost cost them a lot. Lots of intangibles matter, stop letting B side players get run in big games. Letting CEH touch the ball and remove McKinnon who was doing well changed the flow as well. 

Play your hot players. Perine should not touch the ball once in the SB if Mixon is available and if you do thats bad coaching. 
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Yeah, I guess I missed the whole thing with McKinnon and CEH.  So CEH was healthy but lost the starting job?

 
Rally Monkey said:
And in that Bengals game. I know Perine is their 3rd down back and made a good run that even Mixon could do, but Mixon is better and smarter as Perine went the wrong way and almost cost them a lot. Lots of intangibles matter, stop letting B side players get run in big games. Letting CEH touch the ball and remove McKinnon who was doing well changed the flow as well. 

Play your hot players. Perine should not touch the ball once in the SB if Mixon is available and if you do thats bad coaching. 
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Didn’t Perine score a 41 yard TD in that game? I don’t see giving him touches as “dumb” at all. He’s shown plenty of talent this year, and Mixon hasn’t been great during the playoffs. Perine has been used to spell Mixon much of the year. 

to me, “dumb” would have been the Bengals moving away from what got them this far & using their personnel differently than what’s been so successful. 

You can’t post hoc point to a couple of negative plays & say he shouldn’t have been out there. Preposterous. 

As the Madden game so Often informs us, Barry Sanders is the all-time negative rushing yards leader. 

 
zed2283 said:
Yeah, I guess I missed the whole thing with McKinnon and CEH.  So CEH was healthy but lost the starting job?
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That was weird. McKinnon played almost the entire first half and seemed to be dominating. Then they brought Clyde in and he wasn't terrible either, but they didn't really go back to McKinnon. It's also hard to separate the RB substitution with the fact that the offense was stuck in the mud for the entire second half; I'm guessing the lower RB production was an effect of that slowdown, not a cause. But I'm hoping some NFL analyst does a deep dive and explains to us exactly what happened there.

 
Heard a quote from Mahommes.  He was supposed to throw the ball away but "got greedy" when he went to Hill.  Wasn't on Reid or Beineme (sp?).  It was all on Mahomes.

 
bryhamm said:
Heard a quote from Mahommes.  He was supposed to throw the ball away but "got greedy" when he went to Hill.  Wasn't on Reid or Beineme (sp?).  It was all on Mahomes.
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Yep.  Mahomes' hubris got the best of him, and the team seemingly did not recover from it.  They were not the same team after that play. 

 
Rally Monkey said:
I was pulling for the Chiefs.

The play calling lost that game.

To the people questioning why Bienemy isnt getting a job.  

Not just his history with crimes, but...he is not as good of a play caller as everyone thinks he is. 

That game is my proof. 

And in that Bengals game. I know Perine is their 3rd down back and made a good run that even Mixon could do, but Mixon is better and smarter as Perine went the wrong way and almost cost them a lot. Lots of intangibles matter, stop letting B side players get run in big games. Letting CEH touch the ball and remove McKinnon who was doing well changed the flow as well. 

Play your hot players. Perine should not touch the ball once in the SB if Mixon is available and if you do thats bad coaching. 
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For starters, Perine scored a 40 yard TD that got them rolling.  Also, they made a big deal out of Perine cutting the wrong way but it was 3rd and goal from about the 20 yard line.  I don't think he was scoring no matter which way he went. 

Checked the stats, Perine had zero carries and three receptions for 43 yards and a score.  CEH had 6 carries and averaged 6.0 a tote.  You're fretting over that?

I disagree on the play calling... execution was poor and a big part of that was Mahomes.  He was in a funk after the debacle at the end of the half.  Watching the exchange between Nate Burleson and Phil Simms, at the half,  was priceless.  Burleson "I LOVED that they tried to score"... Simms just shook his head sadly with the wisdom of a QB.  Take the two TD lead... you start the second half with the ball...

 
DropKick said:
I know Deebo took the big hit.  It didn't seem like they leaned on him the say way after that.  I'll have to check the box score.
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His last touch/target was with 12 minutes left in the game, when he caught a 12-yard pass. The only video I can find from after that is the end-of-game INT, and he was definitely on the field for that (split out wide, and didn't appear injured).

 
ignatiusjreilly said:
His last touch/target was with 12 minutes left in the game, when he caught a 12-yard pass. The only video I can find from after that is the end-of-game INT, and he was definitely on the field for that (split out wide, and didn't appear injured).
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I looked at the box score. He had that one touch in the 4th quarter but he did have 4 or 5 touches in the 3rd quarter.  I was worried he wasn't going to be 100% after getting lit up.  Quiet in the 4th but maybe that was just the way the game came down.  I would have expected Deebo on one of those two plays before the 4th and 2 punt.

 
DropKick said:
I looked at the box score. He had that one touch in the 4th quarter but he did have 4 or 5 touches in the 3rd quarter.  I was worried he wasn't going to be 100% after getting lit up.  Quiet in the 4th but maybe that was just the way the game came down.  I would have expected Deebo on one of those two plays before the 4th and 2 punt.
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I thought of that, but this is Deebo we're talking about. More than just about any player in the league, they have been able to manufacture touches for him all year. If he was injured or less than 100%, I get it (although I haven't heard any actual reports that he was). But with a playcaller like Shanny and the type of weapon he is, I just can't buy that he got schemed out. If your scheme isn't putting the ball in his hands with the game on the line, you have the wrong scheme.

 
ignatiusjreilly said:
I thought of that, but this is Deebo we're talking about. More than just about any player in the league, they have been able to manufacture touches for him all year. If he was injured or less than 100%, I get it (although I haven't heard any actual reports that he was). But with a playcaller like Shanny and the type of weapon he is, I just can't buy that he got schemed out. If your scheme isn't putting the ball in his hands with the game on the line, you have the wrong scheme.
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Do we know who the primary read was on the final play?

You can scheme all you want but sometimes Aaron Donald is gonna eat your scheme.

 
ignatiusjreilly said:
I thought of that, but this is Deebo we're talking about. More than just about any player in the league, they have been able to manufacture touches for him all year. If he was injured or less than 100%, I get it (although I haven't heard any actual reports that he was). But with a playcaller like Shanny and the type of weapon he is, I just can't buy that he got schemed out. If your scheme isn't putting the ball in his hands with the game on the line, you have the wrong scheme.
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As someone that has Deebo and Kittle in multiple leagues, SF offense is beyond maddening at times. IDK if it’s Shanahan or Garapolo, but they tend to completely forget about passing the ball to Deebo and Kittle for massive stretches of time (sometimes whole games.) There was a prime time game earlier in the season when the 49’ers had 11 plays in the redzone on one drive due to failing to connect but getting bailed out by penalties. 10 of the plays were passes, Kittle got zero targets. How does that make much sense?

 
Buckna said:
As someone that has Deebo and Kittle in multiple leagues, SF offense is beyond maddening at times. IDK if it’s Shanahan or Garapolo, but they tend to completely forget about passing the ball to Deebo and Kittle for massive stretches of time (sometimes whole games.) There was a prime time game earlier in the season when the 49’ers had 11 plays in the redzone on one drive due to failing to connect but getting bailed out by penalties. 10 of the plays were passes, Kittle got zero targets. How does that make much sense?
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Yeah, Kittle really disappeared for long stretches, especially later in the season. I suspect they were using him to stay in and block (and tbf, he is one of the best blocking TEs in the league) but I agree it seemed like they were not getting all they could out of him as a weapon.

 
Chaka said:
Do we know who the primary read was on the final play?

You can scheme all you want but sometimes Aaron Donald is gonna eat your scheme.
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Probably true on the last play, and Jimmy with the game on his shoulders is always going to be hit or miss, but I was thinking more of the two drives before that when they were leading/tying. Felt like they could have made it more of a priority to get the ball in his hands.

 
Ghost Rider said:
History will be kind to McVay since his team won tonight, but I lost track of how many times they had 2nd and short and then he called a run, only for them to lose yards and get put in 3rd and long.  They couldn't run it all night, yet he kept doing that.  Crazy. 
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I think I saw a stat that the first-down run by Akers to set up first and goal on the winning drive was the Rams’ only positive EPA run of the entire game.

 
Bengals 3/14 Third Down 1/3 Fourth Down      
4/17

Rams 6/15 Third Down 1/1 Fourth Down   
7/16

Final Drives:

CIN 0/2 (Perine run, incomplete to Perine) 

LAR 3/3 (Kupp run, Hopkins pass, D holding pass intended for Kupp)

 
Terrible clock management at game end. 9 yard pass to Boyd on first down, ~1:15 on the clock, ball at midfield, two timeouts, and they huddle up and waste 20 seconds rushing to the line for what turns out to be a throw-away play (basically, "you go long" to Chase who was bracketed).

Call timeout. Run a good play. You still need 50 yards.

 
CalBear said:
Terrible clock management at game end. 9 yard pass to Boyd on first down, ~1:15 on the clock, ball at midfield, two timeouts, and they huddle up and waste 20 seconds rushing to the line for what turns out to be a throw-away play (basically, "you go long" to Chase who was bracketed).

Call timeout. Run a good play. You still need 50 yards.
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They only needed 15 yards.  Get into range and take a couple shots.

 
CalBear said:
Terrible clock management at game end. 9 yard pass to Boyd on first down, ~1:15 on the clock, ball at midfield, two timeouts, and they huddle up and waste 20 seconds rushing to the line for what turns out to be a throw-away play (basically, "you go long" to Chase who was bracketed).

Call timeout. Run a good play. You still need 50 yards.
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I had no problems with the clock management aspect.  They wanted to score at the buzzer (either FG or TD and with the timeouts they had left the clock was really irrelevant.  They had plenty of time to run whatever play type they wanted to. 

The problem was the play calling and personnel choices.  I understand that they have used Perine all season as 3rd down back (probably to save Mixon some touches) but with the game on the line you need to have your best guys on the field and that includes Mixon.  Mixon had been running at a nice clip all night.  He needed to get the ball at that juncture.  That was the real problem.  Not clock management.  

 
BobbyLayne said:
thanks, I see the screencap showing 2nd & 1, my bad

this was incomplete to Chase but my recollection is it was way past Chase and way out of bounds bc he was under duress
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Yes, it was the play that @CalBearcriticized. I wonder what the plan was on that play and if something happened that threw them off. But certainly they could have put the ball in Chase's hands there, gotten the easy first down, and maybe some YAC as well

 
ignatiusjreilly said:
Yes, it was the play that @CalBearcriticized. I wonder what the plan was on that play and if something happened that threw them off. But certainly they could have put the ball in Chase's hands there, gotten the easy first down, and maybe some YAC as well
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Take a page from the Rams on their final drive when they force fed their best guy (Kupp) all the way down the field.  

 
Calling a play for Perine might have made sense earlier in the game. In that situation with the game on the line, it goes to Chase, Higgins, or Mixon every single time, not even a second thought. First down. 

 
Gally said:
Take a page from the Rams on their final drive when they force fed their best guy (Kupp) all the way down the field.  
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Another stat I heard: Kupp had six targets for the first 3 1/2 quarters. He got six more on the final drive. (I guess the first sentence applies to this thread).

 
TwinTurbo said:
Calling a play for Perine might have made sense earlier in the game. In that situation with the game on the line, it goes to Chase, Higgins, or Mixon every single time, not even a second thought. First down. 
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I would put Boyd on that list too.  But at 3rd and 1 with the way Mixon had been running I think he has to get a chance there.  He was making the first guy miss every time and an extra yard or two.  That's all he needed and I think he gets it.  

 
Gally said:
I would put Boyd on that list too.  But at 3rd and 1 with the way Mixon had been running I think he has to get a chance there.  He was making the first guy miss every time and an extra yard or two.  That's all he needed and I think he gets it.  
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Boyd had a couple drops. It would have been Chase, Higgins, or Mixon for me. Perine straight up the gut into Aaron Donald? Why is that even in the play book?

 
TwinTurbo said:
Boyd had a couple drops. It would have been Chase, Higgins, or Mixon for me. Perine straight up the gut into Aaron Donald? Why is that even in the play book?
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Boyd is a quality WR and I think he had one drop (although it was bad).  He also had a great catch to put them at 3rd and 1.  I would have no problem trusting him in that situation.  

But agreed......Perine was not on that list of guys I would trust in that situation.

 
TwinTurbo said:
Boyd had a couple drops. It would have been Chase, Higgins, or Mixon for me. Perine straight up the gut into Aaron Donald? Why is that even in the play book?
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It wasn't even up the gut. He ran past Donald, who fought through a block, grabbed him with one arm, and tossed him back short of the first-down line. One of the low-key most amazing defensive plays I've ever seen 

 
In the game thread I kept wondering why the Rams didn't go hurry up no huddle earlier. IMO, that was the clear and easy call. Defenders get tired, pass rushers lose any remaining steam, and the defense can't substitute. It's a win-win-win. Spread 'em and shread 'em. That's ultimately what they did on the last drive, but they could have done that two drives earlier and may not have needed last minute heroics to pull out the game. The Rams won the game, but we can still second guess their decision-making.

 
Anarchy99 said:
In the game thread I kept wondering why the Rams didn't go hurry up no huddle earlier. IMO, that was the clear and easy call. Defenders get tired, pass rushers lose any remaining steam, and the defense can't substitute. It's a win-win-win. Spread 'em and shread 'em. That's ultimately what they did on the last drive, but they could have done that two drives earlier and may not have needed last minute heroics to pull out the game. The Rams won the game, but we can still second guess their decision-making.
Click to expand...
Story of McVay's postseason

 
Anarchy99 said:
In the game thread I kept wondering why the Rams didn't go hurry up no huddle earlier. IMO, that was the clear and easy call. Defenders get tired, pass rushers lose any remaining steam, and the defense can't substitute. It's a win-win-win. Spread 'em and shread 'em. That's ultimately what they did on the last drive, but they could have done that two drives earlier and may not have needed last minute heroics to pull out the game. The Rams won the game, but we can still second guess their decision-making.
Click to expand...
Also Stafford has a history of last minute comebacks that make this correct. Didn't always work,  but he has a solid resume of last gasp wins where the hurry up offense had the opposing defense on their heels.

 
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