Post here when coaches do something you disagree with (4 Viewers)

[FreeBaGeL]

Why didn't McDaniel kick the field goal on 4th down, inside the 5 with 1:40 left in the game and the Commanders having no timeouts?

It wasn't "inside the 5". It was from the 1 foot line. I guarantee you 30 out of 32 NFL teams, at a minimum, choose to go for it there.

Is the one yard line not inside the 5 anymore?

They'd already gotten stuffed in a similar situation earlier in the game and Achane just had to leave the game for that 4th down play.

30 of 32 coaches don't go for it right there. You fail and the other team gets a shot to win with a FG. They got lucky.

The point is obviously there's a huge difference between the 5 yard line and the 1 foot line, so "inside the 5" is intentionally leaving out the important part. You could also say "in the redzone" and it would be technically correct, but obviously misleading.

No one is kicking there with 1:45 still left in the modern era. In 1995? Maybe.

 

[cockroach]

Why didn't McDaniel kick the field goal on 4th down, inside the 5 with 1:40 left in the game and the Commanders having no timeouts?

It wasn't "inside the 5". It was from the 1 foot line. I guarantee you 30 out of 32 NFL teams, at a minimum, choose to go for it there.

Is the one yard line not inside the 5 anymore?

They'd already gotten stuffed in a similar situation earlier in the game and Achane just had to leave the game for that 4th down play.

30 of 32 coaches don't go for it right there. You fail and the other team gets a shot to win with a FG. They got lucky.

Didn’t Achane get hurt on the 4th down play?

No, Gordon got stuffed on 4th.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

I don’t know what the numbers said, but I thought going for it there (and Washington doing something similar with 6min left) was totally defensible. Your chances of converting are pretty high in that situation, and a TD leaves you in much better position than a FG

 

[Chaka]

Why didn't McDaniel kick the field goal on 4th down, inside the 5 with 1:40 left in the game and the Commanders having no timeouts?

It wasn't "inside the 5". It was from the 1 foot line. I guarantee you 30 out of 32 NFL teams, at a minimum, choose to go for it there.

Is the one yard line not inside the 5 anymore?

They'd already gotten stuffed in a similar situation earlier in the game and Achane just had to leave the game for that 4th down play.

30 of 32 coaches don't go for it right there. You fail and the other team gets a shot to win with a FG. They got lucky.

Didn’t Achane get hurt on the 4th down play?

3rd. I think Ollie got the 4th down try.

 

[msudaisy26]

I believe Dan Quinn loves defense so much that he let's his team run basic *** offense just so he can see more defensive stops.

 

[smbkrypt24]

I don’t know what the numbers said, but I thought going for it there (and Washington doing something similar with 6min left) was totally defensible. Your chances of converting are pretty high in that situation, and a TD leaves you in much better position than a FG

At any other point in the game I would say go for it. With it being tied and 2 minutes left I think it has to be kick the field goal.

 

[Chaka]

Why didn't McDaniel kick the field goal on 4th down, inside the 5 with 1:40 left in the game and the Commanders having no timeouts?

It wasn't "inside the 5". It was from the 1 foot line. I guarantee you 30 out of 32 NFL teams, at a minimum, choose to go for it there.

Is the one yard line not inside the 5 anymore?

They'd already gotten stuffed in a similar situation earlier in the game and Achane just had to leave the game for that 4th down play.

30 of 32 coaches don't go for it right there. You fail and the other team gets a shot to win with a FG. They got lucky.

The point is obviously there's a huge difference between the 5 yard line and the 1 foot line, so "inside the 5" is intentionally leaving out the important part. You could also say "in the redzone" and it would be technically correct, but obviously misleading.

No one is kicking there with 1:45 still left in the modern era. In 1995? Maybe.

I love that NFL coaches have finally caught up with Kevin Kelly. But, it isn't outrageously dated thinking at all to kick the FG there.

The D was playing well and had held them to 13 points to that point and the Commanders were out of time outs. And yhe Commanders best player all game (Rodriguez) is neutralized in that situation.

Kick the FG and tell your defense to go win the game which, they ended up doing.

 

[Tau837]

PHI had a 16-6 lead with under 4 minutes remaining. 3rd and 1 on their own 29. They used the tuch push and got stuffed. Obvious punt situation.

Yet they went for it on 4th and inches and got stuffed again, turning the ball over to DET in FG range. To their defense's credit, they stopped DET but gave them a 54 yard FG simply because of field position, enabling DET to make it a 1 score game with all 3 timeouts remaining.

Being aggressive is fine, but this was stupid.

 

[ghostguy123]

PHI had a 16-6 lead with under 4 minutes remaining. 3rd and 1 on their own 29. They used the tuch push and got stuffed. Obvious punt situation.

Yet they went for it on 4th and inches and got stuffed again, turning the ball over to DET in FG range. To their defense's credit, they stopped DET but gave them a 54 yard FG simply because of field position, enabling DET to make it a 1 score game with all 3 timeouts remaining.

Being aggressive is fine, but this was stupid.

Agreed, especially after watching Goff spike balls into the dirt all night.
That said, that right call there was to punt regardless of who you are and regardless of who you are playing

Meanwhile, the Lions didn't go for it on 4th TWICE in the 4th quarter when they should have. It was 4th and long, but you're down two scores with like 7 minutes left against a team that makes a habit out of 8 minutes drives

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Anyone familiar with my work on this site probably knows two things about me: I'm generally in favor of coaches being more aggressive on 4th down calls, and I love Dan Campbell in a way that multiple states would probably try to ban if they could.

All that said, I don't think he called a good game last night. It wasn't so much the decisions to keep going for it that bothered me, more that Campbell kept calling the same two plays: an interior run to Gibbs (never Monty) and a slow developing pass play that the Eagles DTs blew up. They’re usually so creative in those situations (then again, they did try to get creative on the fake punt and the Eagles sniffed that out, too).

When your interior OL is your Achilles Heel and you're facing some of the best DTs in the league, anything you try to do on offense will be hard. But the Lions knew all this coming in. They either needed to come up with a plan to overcome it or not keep risking everything on 4th down plays that didn't seem to have a chance

 

[JoeKappBudGrant]

Anyone familiar with my work on this site probably knows two things about me: I'm generally in favor of coaches being more aggressive on 4th down calls, and I love Dan Campbell in a way that multiple states would probably try to ban if they could.

All that said, I don't think he called a good game last night. It wasn't so much the decisions to keep going for it that bothered me, more that Campbell kept calling the same two plays: an interior run to Gibbs (never Monty) and a slow developing pass play that the Eagles DTs blew up. They’re usually so creative in those situations (then again, they did try to get creative on the fake punt and the Eagles sniffed that out, too).

When your interior OL is your Achilles Heel and you're facing some of the best DTs in the league, anything you try to do on offense will be hard. But the Lions knew all this coming in. They either needed to come up with a plan to overcome it or not keep risking everything on 4th down plays that didn't seem to have a chance

The top line on Dan's play sheet needs to read "Frank Ragnow is retired."

 

[Mojo56]

It wasn't "inside the 5". It was from the 1 foot line. I guarantee you 30 out of 32 NFL teams, at a minimum, choose to go for it there.

I've been watching football for 60 years and I've still never seen the oft referenced 'one foot line'.

 

[Guss]

McDermott down 7 points, 4th qtr 10 minutes left 4th and 1 around Houston 20 yard line
goes for it instead of kicking FG, Cook gets stuffed, turn the ball over, no points

Next possession drive to around Houston 20, 4th and 10 this time, kick the FG

End of game Bills drive down but need a TD, turn the ball over on downs at Houston 22
If idiot McDermott would kick FG's he would have won the game

Dumb, dumb, dumb in game coaching.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

McDermott down 7 points, 4th qtr 10 minutes left 4th and 1 around Houston 20 yard line
goes for it instead of kicking FG, Cook gets stuffed, turn the ball over, no points

Next possession drive to around Houston 20, 4th and 10 this time, kick the FG

End of game Bills drive down but need a TD, turn the ball over on downs at Houston 22
If idiot McDermott would kick FG's he would have won the game

Dumb, dumb, dumb in game coaching.

Always take the points when the other team has a good D but a bad O.

 

[zed2283]

PHI had a 16-6 lead with under 4 minutes remaining. 3rd and 1 on their own 29. They used the tuch push and got stuffed. Obvious punt situation.

Yet they went for it on 4th and inches and got stuffed again, turning the ball over to DET in FG range. To their defense's credit, they stopped DET but gave them a 54 yard FG simply because of field position, enabling DET to make it a 1 score game with all 3 timeouts remaining.

Being aggressive is fine, but this was stupid.

BUT ANALYTICS!!!!!!

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Always take the points when the other team has a good D but a bad O.

Yes it's situational. Conversely facing a good O but a bad D could mean going for it more.

 

[Zeppelin]

I know I'm in the minority but I can't fault McDermott for going for it on 4th and 1 at the 20. It's easy to say it's a bad decision after they didn't make it. Great defense or not, with Josh Allen in that situation I'm going for it every time.

 

[eighsse2]

McDermott down 7 points, 4th qtr 10 minutes left 4th and 1 around Houston 20 yard line
goes for it instead of kicking FG, Cook gets stuffed, turn the ball over, no points

Next possession drive to around Houston 20, 4th and 10 this time, kick the FG

End of game Bills drive down but need a TD, turn the ball over on downs at Houston 22
If idiot McDermott would kick FG's he would have won the game

Dumb, dumb, dumb in game coaching.

I'm not saying whether those were good or bad decisions (I probably go for the FG's), but I don't think "if he kicks the FG's he would have won" is a case-in-point final verdict thing. Yeah sure if he KNEW in advance he was going to get in field goal range two more times and also keep Houston from scoring. But you don't know that at the time.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

I know I'm in the minority but I can't fault McDermott for going for it on 4th and 1 at the 20. It's easy to say it's a bad decision after they didn't make it. Great defense or not, with Josh Allen in that situation I'm going for it every time.

I agree, though of course he took the ball out of Allen’s hands and ran an inside run to Cook.

Good with the decision, bad with the call

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

PHI had a 16-6 lead with under 4 minutes remaining. 3rd and 1 on their own 29. They used the tuch push and got stuffed. Obvious punt situation.

Yet they went for it on 4th and inches and got stuffed again, turning the ball over to DET in FG range. To their defense's credit, they stopped DET but gave them a 54 yard FG simply because of field position, enabling DET to make it a 1 score game with all 3 timeouts remaining.

Being aggressive is fine, but this was stupid.

BUT ANALYTICS!!!!!!

Philly didn’t go for it because of analytics, they went for it because they didn’t think anyone was capable of stopping the Tush Push. Anyone who’s played Madden has been in this situation

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

McDermott down 7 points, 4th qtr 10 minutes left 4th and 1 around Houston 20 yard line
goes for it instead of kicking FG, Cook gets stuffed, turn the ball over, no points

Next possession drive to around Houston 20, 4th and 10 this time, kick the FG

End of game Bills drive down but need a TD, turn the ball over on downs at Houston 22
If idiot McDermott would kick FG's he would have won the game

Dumb, dumb, dumb in game coaching.

Always take the points when the other team has a good D but a bad O.

You could just as easily argue that against a good D, if you put together a successful drive you should try to maximize the points you get out of it (though that applies more to 4th and goal on the 1 than it does 4th and 1 at the 20)

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

I probably shouldn't be the one posting this, since I agreed with the decision, but I was curious what people thought about both the Giants and the Jags passing up a FG late that would have put them up 6 and trying to convert a 4th down instead. In both cases, the decisions didn't work out; they failed on 4th and the other team was able to drive down and kick a FG to send the game to OT (Jags still won, Giants lost). But this is one of those things the analytics nerds have been pushing for years. The idea is that if you go up 6, the opponent will need to be more aggressive in order to score a TD, whereas if you're up 3 they'll play it safe for the tie. In the case of Giants-Lions, it was also a question of field position. If NY had kicked the FG, they would have kicked off and Detroit would have gotten the ball probably around the 25. Instead, they started their drive inside the 5.

In non-analytic terms, I think there were some compelling reasons for the Giants to go for it. Their offense had mostly done what they wanted all day, so you want to put the game in Jameis' hands rather than on your D to get a stop. And then, of course, there's NY's macro situation. Kafka is interim HC and knows he's probably getting fired at the end of the year regardless, so why not go full DGAF and hope to come away with a memorable upset that rallies the players behind you?

If there's one thing I would definitely criticize them for, it was not running on 2nd down and burning more clock. The announcers called that out in real-time. Whatever you do on that drive, you need to burn as much clock as possible.

Wasn't following the Jags as closely so I don't have as firm an opinion on that one. I honestly don't know whether I'd rather bet on Lawrence to get me a yard or my D to stop Jacoby Brissett.

 

[Gally]

I know I'm in the minority but I can't fault McDermott for going for it on 4th and 1 at the 20. It's easy to say it's a bad decision after they didn't make it. Great defense or not, with Josh Allen in that situation I'm going for it every time.

But they handed it off to Cook...Josh Allen was irrelevant. So doesn't that make it a doubly bad decision?

 

[BlackCrowes]

Epically stupid play-call from the panthers on first and goal

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

It's always dumb to run a draw or a screen on the final play of the half. If you're not going to try to score, why not just take a knee?

But it's even stupider when the guy you throw it to is literally the only offensive player who has managed to stay healthy all season, and he already had 16 touches in the half. Why would you tempt fate like that?