Princeton Considers Whitewashing History; Students Appeased (1 Viewer)

[Eminence]

Yeah, I don't get it. Nobody told these kids to go to Princeton.

It's a relatively easy school to get into. Not like South Florida.

If they were so offended, shouldn't they you know, go somewhere else?

 

[The_Man]

Yeah, I don't get it. Nobody told these kids to go to Princeton.

It's a relatively easy school to get into. Not like South Florida.

If they were so offended, shouldn't they you know, go somewhere else?

This is a variation of the same great arguments that segregationists often made. Shouldn't they go where they're welcome and will be more comfortable?

 

[LAUNCH]

They should probably change the name of Washington Rd. while they are at it.

 

[timschochet]

Yeah, I don't get it. Nobody told these kids to go to Princeton.

It's a relatively easy school to get into. Not like South Florida.

If they were so offended, shouldn't they you know, go somewhere else?

Well, you wouldn't want them to go to one the schools YOU'RE considering. It might, you know, upset the ratios.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Princeton said this week it would change the title of those who oversee its residential colleges to "head" from "master."

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Wilson, the 28th U.S. president from 1913 to 1921, was a leader of the Progressive Movement but also supported racial segregation, which was legal and part of public policy at the time in the United States, particularly in southern states.

Well, that is odd.

 

[belljr]

What about Woodrow Wilson high school!!!#!!!!

Dumbest protest ever

 

[Eminence]

Yeah, I don't get it. Nobody told these kids to go to Princeton.

It's a relatively easy school to get into. Not like South Florida.

If they were so offended, shouldn't they you know, go somewhere else?

Well, you wouldn't want them to go to one the schools YOU'RE considering. It might, you know, upset the ratios.

I don't care where they go. I look at the demographics of schools in which I am interested in attending and make a decision based on it. I'm not going to attend a school and then complain about the names of the building.

How petty is that? It's a joke.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

We should probably stop honoring the 4th of July because we are just celebrating a bunch of slave owning aristocratic white men that didn't want to pay their taxes.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Exactly.

History is not being sandblasted. His many "accomplishments" are not being removed from history books, wiki or any other source. Those who wish to learn more about his presidency will have just as much information as they did before if Princeton agrees that he shouldn't continued to be honored.

Seems a bit unfair to apply today's sensibilities on topics such as racial and gender equality to historical figures.

Gender equality maybe. And race maybe for the founding fathers or before the Civil War. But none of that applies to Wilson. He didn't maintain segregation; he imposed it. He didn't refuse to do anything about Jim Crow, he tried to enforce it. His racism was active and plenty of people in his day condemned him for it.

Screw this, you and I believe probably agree a lot on Wilson from what I recall, but the renaming and sandblasting of names from our history is a sick disease, we need to stop it.

i don't see why. Nobody's removing him from the history books. You seem to be associating this sort of thing in your mind to Stalin removing Trotsky's name from contributing to the Revolution. But it's not like that at all. Wilson will always be remembered but he doesn't deserve to be honored.

No. Sorry, why not wipe this racist from public textbooks as well?

Note the basis for this demand

But Assani York, 20, a student at the Woodrow Wilson School who helped organize the protest, said meeting the demonstrators' demands - which include requiring faculty to be trained on cultural competency and instituting a diversity course requirement for students - would be a step forward. "It would mean that Princeton is finally acknowledging the racism that this campus was built off of," York said. “There are people who do not feel comfortable walking into a dining hall and seeing the Woodrow Wilson mural, knowing it was someone who didn’t want them on this campus."

The basis of the demand is that people feel uncomfortable by the sight, hearing and thought of this racist man. That needs to be precluded as a possibility.

Not only that - teachers and students both must be reeducated to acknowledge this.

I don't even like Woodrow Wilson. For most progressives and liberals he is an icon. Heck Tim and I probably agree on a lot of aspects about Wilson.

But here are some good things that Wilson stands for:

• Democracy.
• Self determination.
• Higher education.
• Progressivism in education and government.

You wipe someone from memory you wipe what they stood for out as well.

This is antidemocratic stuff.

 

[belljr]

Oh no, the scary bad man from 100 years ago makes me feel uncomfortable.

Losers

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Protest organizers at the Ivy League university in New Jersey urged Princeton to remove Wilson's name and image from its public spaces and from its Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs.

They just don't want it removed from the building.

They want it removed from the school of Public and International Affairs. That carries a lot of weight folks, think of what Wilson's legacy means in the history of those endeavors.

You want to wipe that out at Princeton as well?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

WWS HistoryIn 1930, Princeton established the School of Public and International Affairs, as it was originally named, in the spirit of Woodrow Wilson's interest in preparing students for leadership in public and international affairs.

...The phrase “Princeton in the Nation's Service” was the theme of two speeches Wilson gave at the University, first during its 150th anniversary celebration in 1896 and again at his inauguration as the University’s president in 1902. In the 1990s, the motto was expanded by then-President Harold T. Shapiro to read “Princeton in the Nation's Service and in the Service of All Nations.” It is a concept that Princeton and the Woodrow Wilson School regard as an educational mission. ...

Here's the speech, which concludes:

I have studied the history of America; I have seen her grow great in the paths of liberty and of progress by following after great ideals. Every concrete thing that she has done has seemed to rise out of some abstract principle, some vision of the mind. Her greatest victories have been the victories of peace and of humanity. And in days quiet and troubled alike Princeton has stood for the nation’s service, to produce men and patriots. Her national tradition began with John Witherspoon, the master, and James Madison, the pupil, and has not been broken until this day. I do not know what the friends of this sound and tested foundation may have in store to build upon it; but whatever they add shall be added in that spirit, and with that conception of duty. There is no better way to build up learning and increase power. A new age is before us, in which, it would seem, we must lead the world. No doubt we shall set it an example unprecedented not only in the magnitude and telling perfection of our industries and arts, but also in the splendid scale and studied detail of our university establishments: the spirit of the age will lift us to every great enterprise. But the ancient spirit of sound learning will also rule us; we shall demonstrate in our lecture rooms again and again, with increasing volume of proof, the old principles that have made us free and great; reading men shall read here the chastened thoughts that have kept us young and shall make us pure; the school of learning shall be the school of memory and of ideal hope; and the men who spring from our loins shall take their lineage from the founders of the republic.

http://historicaldocuments.org/woodrow-wilson-princeton-for-the-nations-service-speech/

There are a lot of beautiful sentiments in that speech.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

I can't wait for the kids at Brown to demand that the State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations shortens its name to just State of Rhode Island. I'm sure some of those kids get uncomfortable reading the full official name of the state where they go to school.

 

[Courtjester]

These are the kind of fools that probably want to rename it Kanye West Hall or Lady Gaga Dorm.

 

[Eminence]

These are the kind of fools that probably want to rename it Kanye West Hall or Lady Gaga Dorm.

I love Lady Gaga Dorm!

 

[Courtjester]

These are the kind of fools that probably want to rename it Kanye West Hall or Lady Gaga Dorm.

I love Lady Gaga Dorm!

You know I used to think she had a pretty busted face, but she is sort of hot in that Barnes and Noble Commercial......

 

[squistion]

I don't even like Woodrow Wilson. For most progressives and liberals he is an icon.

Not in 2015 he isn't:

http://thefederalist.com/2015/11/19/princeton-students-are-right-woodrow-wilson-was-the-worst/

Princeton Students Are Right: Woodrow Wilson Was The Worst

[...]

Asking a private school to stop honoring an authoritarian hatemonger who also happened to be one of the most destructive presidents in the history of the United States is about the sanest thing Ive heard happening on a college campus in a long time. (Update: Princeton caved.)

A school spokesman argued that, while, yes, the progressive Wilson was an enormous racist, its important to weigh his distasteful tendencies against the contributions he made to the school and the nation.

Okay.

Whereas some of the Founding Fathers did nothing to stop an unfathomably immoral and racist institution (meaning slavery, of course), their legacy is one under which liberal ideals flourish and the world became a better place. We can argue about that inheritance if you like, but Wilson made the world a worse place in every way imaginable. Not one element of genuine liberalism was safe under his watch.

Like most progressives of his era, Wilson wasnt merely a common racist, he embraced the pseudo-scientific eugenics that would haunt millions. After his election, he didn't only say terrible things - "There are no government positions for Negroes in the South. A Negros place in the corn field" - he institutionalized racism in the federal government, segregating the civil service in 1913. He personally fired 15 out of 17 black supervisors appointed to federal jobs, while his postmaster general and Treasury secretary segregated their departments. He's the only president that I know of who's ever celebrated the Ku Klux Klan in the White House.

While governor of New Jersey, Wilson signed a bill making sterilization of criminals and the mentally ill compulsory. Is that the legacy Princeton was talking?

A well-regarded scholar, Wilson, who argued that Americans needed to get "beyond the Declaration of Independence" and valued "progress" over freedom, is typically given a pass because he was the first president to lead a massive expansion of the federal government, activating the state in the "service of humanity."

That's just the start. Although I suspect there will be pushback to this contention: Wilson also oversaw one of the greatest foreign-policy disasters in American history, World War I. The untenable outcome was bad enough, but the massive social engineering project Wilson helped spearhead is still being paid for. Simultaneously, Wilson sent American citizens to jail for expressing opinions that cast the government or the war effort in poor light.

There are many insane things happening on college campuses these days, but calling out Woodrow Wilson is not one of them.

 

[Christo]

We should probably stop honoring the 4th of July because we are just celebrating a bunch of slave owning aristocratic white men that didn't want to pay their taxes.

All right, all right, all right.

 

[chauncey]

Trigger Warning

This Social Justice Terrorism is spreading like cancer and the useful idiots in this country are eating it up.

On the bright side these fools at Mizzou, Yale, Princeton, Tulane, Georgia Southern, Northern Illinois, etc are exposing just how off the reservation the far left has become.

It will be interesting to see how the average American who doesn't spend their time in the echo chamber of social media and online forums responds to this next fall.

 

[AAABatteries]

It is not whitewashing history to remove Wilson's name. He was an awful President, a terrible man and probably the worst racist we've ever had in high public office. It would be a good thing IMO to remove anything honoring this guy who was an embarrassment to our nation.

Oh shut the #### up.

Yes sir.(I don't argue with police).

You're white so it's OK.

I hear he has a black friend - you better go ahead and give him a beat down - can't be too sure

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I don't even like Woodrow Wilson. For most progressives and liberals he is an icon.

Not in 2015 he isn't:

http://thefederalist.com/2015/11/19/princeton-students-are-right-woodrow-wilson-was-the-worst/

Princeton Students Are Right: Woodrow Wilson Was The Worst

[...]

Asking a private school to stop honoring an authoritarian hatemonger who also happened to be one of the most destructive presidents in the history of the United States is about the sanest thing Ive heard happening on a college campus in a long time. (Update: Princeton caved.)

A school spokesman argued that, while, yes, the progressive Wilson was an enormous racist, its important to weigh his distasteful tendencies against the contributions he made to the school and the nation.

Okay.

Whereas some of the Founding Fathers did nothing to stop an unfathomably immoral and racist institution (meaning slavery, of course), their legacy is one under which liberal ideals flourish and the world became a better place. We can argue about that inheritance if you like, but Wilson made the world a worse place in every way imaginable. Not one element of genuine liberalism was safe under his watch.

Like most progressives of his era, Wilson wasnt merely a common racist, he embraced the pseudo-scientific eugenics that would haunt millions. After his election, he didn't only say terrible things - "There are no government positions for Negroes in the South. A Negros place in the corn field" - he institutionalized racism in the federal government, segregating the civil service in 1913. He personally fired 15 out of 17 black supervisors appointed to federal jobs, while his postmaster general and Treasury secretary segregated their departments. He's the only president that I know of who's ever celebrated the Ku Klux Klan in the White House.

While governor of New Jersey, Wilson signed a bill making sterilization of criminals and the mentally ill compulsory. Is that the legacy Princeton was talking?

A well-regarded scholar, Wilson, who argued that Americans needed to get "beyond the Declaration of Independence" and valued "progress" over freedom, is typically given a pass because he was the first president to lead a massive expansion of the federal government, activating the state in the "service of humanity."

That's just the start. Although I suspect there will be pushback to this contention: Wilson also oversaw one of the greatest foreign-policy disasters in American history, World War I. The untenable outcome was bad enough, but the massive social engineering project Wilson helped spearhead is still being paid for. Simultaneously, Wilson sent American citizens to jail for expressing opinions that cast the government or the war effort in poor light.

There are many insane things happening on college campuses these days, but calling out Woodrow Wilson is not one of them.

The Federalist is a conservative / libertarian site, no? Isn't that a bit odd citing to a conservative intellectual site to explain why liberals or progressives should be ashamed of one of the modern builders of the Democratic Party?

Wilson did several things that progressives should be proud of, he created the modern framework of international diplomacy for the preservation of peace, he called for the building of democracy over autocratic rule, he called for international disarmament, he called for self-determination, and at home he led the way for the creation of the income tax. There are more, but the Democratic Party and America shouldn't be casting away their giants.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

This is the liberal New Republic on Wilson:

The work was not resumed until Mr. Wilson was elected President, when, backed by a more united party, a Democratic President took advantage of the long period of agitation and did more in four years to incorporate progressive principles into the national economic system than his predecessors had accomplished in twelve. Notwithstanding the difference in emphasis which resulted from Mr. Wilson's affiliation with the Democratic party, his work in this respect is clearly a continuation, if not a consummation, of that begun by Mr. Roosevelt. By a skilful use of presidential initiative and sustained by an aroused public opinion, Mr. Wilson wrote into law the connection between a progressive economic policy and national unity.

https://newrepublic.com/article/92253/wilson-and-roosevelt

Progressives are nuts if they throw Wilson into the dustbin of history.

 

[squistion]

Progressives are nuts if they throw Wilson into the dustbin of history.

He is not is the dustbin. Just being given the proper historical perspective he deserves. Interesting how you always like to speak for progressives/liberals, what opinions they should hold and how they should feel. I don't claim to speak on behalf of anyone on the right, you should do the same for those on the left.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Progressives are nuts if they throw Wilson into the dustbin of history.

He is not is the dustbin. Just being given the proper historical perspective he deserves. Interesting how you always like to speak for progressives/liberals, what opinions they should hold and how they should feel. I don't claim to speak on behalf of anyone on the right, you should do the same for those on the left.

I speak as an American and progressives and liberals have contributed great things to this country worth defending.

 

[timschochet]

Thanks for posting that Saints. I didn't know about the sterilization stuff. Yet another black mark.

It's important to note though, that despite the racism Woodrow Wilson was a true leftist, a progressive, and many of his flaws come as a result of those beliefs, not in spite of them. In fact, and I know this may offend a few people here, but in some ways I would compare Wilson to Bernie Sanders in that he was an ideologue unable to modify his beliefs to reality.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Thanks for posting that Saints. I didn't know about the sterilization stuff. Yet another black mark.

It's important to note though, that despite the racism Woodrow Wilson was a true leftist, a progressive, and many of his flaws come as a result of those beliefs, not in spite of them. In fact, and I know this may offend a few people here, but in some ways I would compare Wilson to Bernie Sanders in that he was an ideologue unable to modify his beliefs to reality.

That was posted by Squizz, from a conservative site. I think Squizz and I switched hats for this thread.

 

[timschochet]

I do like though that his name rolled off the tongue. It was alliterative. Woodrow Wilson. Hubert Humphrey. Ronald Reagan. Why don't we have that anymore?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I do like though that his name rolled off the tongue. It was alliterative. Woodrow Wilson. Hubert Humphrey. Ronald Reagan. Why don't we have that anymore?

<_< Fyi Trump's family name was originally Drumpf.

 

[timschochet]

I do like though that his name rolled off the tongue. It was alliterative. Woodrow Wilson. Hubert Humphrey. Ronald Reagan. Why don't we have that anymore?

<_< Fyi Trump's family name was originally Drumpf.

that doesn't work though because dr is different from d. Herbert Hoover

Wendell Wilkie

It's a lost art.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I do like though that his name rolled off the tongue. It was alliterative. Woodrow Wilson. Hubert Humphrey. Ronald Reagan. Why don't we have that anymore?

<_< Fyi Trump's family name was originally Drumpf.

that doesn't work though because dr is different from d.Herbert Hoover

Wendell Wilkie

It's a lost art.

Well we also don't use names like Hubert, Woodrow, Herbert and Wendell anymore...

 

[timschochet]

I do like though that his name rolled off the tongue. It was alliterative. Woodrow Wilson. Hubert Humphrey. Ronald Reagan. Why don't we have that anymore?

<_< Fyi Trump's family name was originally Drumpf.

that doesn't work though because dr is different from d.Herbert Hoover

Wendell Wilkie

It's a lost art.

Well we also don't use names like Hubert, Woodrow, Herbert and Wendell anymore...

Yeah well that sucks too. But at least HILLARY is an old fashioned name right? Lol

 

[RCon]

Why would anyone care what a private institution names their buildings? Schools whore out building names to rich donors all the time, they can honor or dis-honor (un-honor?) anyone for whatever reason they want.

So you're arguing that the protesters shouldn't care what the buildings are named? I agree, why would they care.

 

[squistion]

Thanks for posting that Saints. I didn't know about the sterilization stuff. Yet another black mark.

It's important to note though, that despite the racism Woodrow Wilson was a true leftist, a progressive, and many of his flaws come as a result of those beliefs, not in spite of them. In fact, and I know this may offend a few people here, but in some ways I would compare Wilson to Bernie Sanders in that he was an ideologue unable to modify his beliefs to reality.

That was posted by Squizz, from a conservative site. I think Squizz and I switched hats for this thread.

Did hell freeze over?

If I run across something I agree with, the ideology of the site or the writer is irrelevant (up to a point, anyway).

In the past I have quoted/linked David Frum and Matt Lewis from conservative sites, so this was not unprecedented. And although I describe myself as a progressive, my father was a Goldwater/Reagan Republican but with isolationist foreign policy views and on certain issues we would occasionally see eye-to-eye on (he was opposed to our entry into the war in Iraq). And I clearly remember a discussion we had that we both disliked Woodrow Wilson, particularly for his involving the U.S. in the First World War.

 

[parasaurolophus]

How many more people need to bash Wilson in this thread before Tim changes sides and digs in and defends him?

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

How many more people need to bash Wilson in this thread before Tim changes sides and digs in and defends him?

He should dust off the old alias he used to use to argue with himself

 

[Ilov80s]

Why would anyone care what a private institution names their buildings? Schools whore out building names to rich donors all the time, they can honor or dis-honor (un-honor?) anyone for whatever reason they want.

So you're arguing that the protesters shouldn't care what the buildings are named? I agree, why would they care.

The students are paying a lot of money to go there, they have more of a say in the names than we do.

 

[jonessed]

Why would anyone care what a private institution names their buildings? Schools whore out building names to rich donors all the time, they can honor or dis-honor (un-honor?) anyone for whatever reason they want.

So you're arguing that the protesters shouldn't care what the buildings are named? I agree, why would they care.

The students are paying a lot of money to go there, they have more of a say in the names than we do.

I doubt many of them are paying much at all.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

I do like though that his name rolled off the tongue. It was alliterative. Woodrow Wilson. Hubert Humphrey. Ronald Reagan. Why don't we have that anymore?

<_< Fyi Trump's family name was originally Drumpf.

that doesn't work though because dr is different from d.Herbert Hoover

Wendell Wilkie

It's a lost art.

David Duke

Probably has a building named after him at Princeton.

 

[timschochet]

I do like though that his name rolled off the tongue. It was alliterative. Woodrow Wilson. Hubert Humphrey. Ronald Reagan. Why don't we have that anymore?

<_< Fyi Trump's family name was originally Drumpf.

that doesn't work though because dr is different from d.Herbert Hoover

Wendell Wilkie

It's a lost art.

David Duke

Probably has a building named after him at Princeton.

Each name has to be two syllables.

 

[RCon]

Why would anyone care what a private institution names their buildings? Schools whore out building names to rich donors all the time, they can honor or dis-honor (un-honor?) anyone for whatever reason they want.

So you're arguing that the protesters shouldn't care what the buildings are named? I agree, why would they care.

The students are paying a lot of money to go there, they have more of a say in the names than we do.

The only people with a say are those who own the buildings. Everyone else has an equal say: none.Regardless, not the point I was making. Tobias thinks that no one should care what they are named, therefore we shouldn't worry what these idiot protesters think. My point is if no one should care what the buildings are named, that only proves that these protesters are protesting for no reason (other than "look at me", of course).

 

[Ilov80s]

Why would anyone care what a private institution names their buildings? Schools whore out building names to rich donors all the time, they can honor or dis-honor (un-honor?) anyone for whatever reason they want.

So you're arguing that the protesters shouldn't care what the buildings are named? I agree, why would they care.

The students are paying a lot of money to go there, they have more of a say in the names than we do.

The only people with a say are those who own the buildings. Everyone else has an equal say: none.Regardless, not the point I was making. Tobias thinks that no one should care what they are named, therefore we shouldn't worry what these idiot protesters think. My point is if no one should care what the buildings are named, that only proves that these protesters are protesting for no reason (other than "look at me", of course).

Why are the protestors idiots?

 

[RCon]

Protesting for no reason other than "look at me" qualifies one as an idiot, in my opinion.

 

[Don Quixote]

I do like though that his name rolled off the tongue. It was alliterative. Woodrow Wilson. Hubert Humphrey. Ronald Reagan. Why don't we have that anymore?

<_< Fyi Trump's family name was originally Drumpf.

that doesn't work though because dr is different from d.Herbert Hoover

Wendell Wilkie

It's a lost art.

David Duke

Probably has a building named after him at Princeton.

Each name has to be two syllables.

It's a shame that Lawrence Lessig dropped out.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Why would anyone care what a private institution names their buildings? Schools whore out building names to rich donors all the time, they can honor or dis-honor (un-honor?) anyone for whatever reason they want.

So you're arguing that the protesters shouldn't care what the buildings are named? I agree, why would they care.

The students are paying a lot of money to go there, they have more of a say in the names than we do.

The only people with a say are those who own the buildings. Everyone else has an equal say: none.Regardless, not the point I was making. Tobias thinks that no one should care what they are named, therefore we shouldn't worry what these idiot protesters think. My point is if no one should care what the buildings are named, that only proves that these protesters are protesting for no reason (other than "look at me", of course).

Why are the protestors idiots?

Tobias, presumably. That's the point Rich is making.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

“Knowledge starts as offendedness”