Pro Bowl Rosters Announced (1 Viewer)

[Bri]

LOL. Do the voters even watch the games?

The only Chargers who should be going are Rivers and Scifres -- and they didn't make it.

It's really a crime that these guys didn't make it. Each was by far the best player in the NFL this season at his position.

Lechler averaged 3 more yards per punt and punted 23 more times

Doesn't really matter if a team that's horrible has more opportunities to punt. Even though Lechler has 3 more yards on average per punt, Scifres has the longer hangtime and that's crucial in getting your guys downfield.

3 yards is significant. Do you know how many punters are within 3 yards of Scifres?The Rams punter averaged 50 yards per punt, the NFL record is 51.4 held by Sammy Baugh.

Lechler's career average is highest in NFL history at 46.47(not counting 08 but clearly it'll be higher).

Jones and Lechler are "all time good" at the moment. Scifres is just very good.

here's a link for you

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/...S_PER_PUNT.html

feel free to post a hangtime link

Gross yards per punt is a poor measure. Lechler plays for the Raiders, so he always punts with a full field ahead of him. Scifres has a shorter field, so he's pooching it inside the 20 more often. Notwithstanding Lechler's advantage, Scifres averages more net yards per punt. He also puts more of his punts inside the twenty, and has fewer punts returned.And if you've watched both guys punt, there shouldn't be any question at all about who gets better hang time.

Lechler is a darn good punter. But Scifres is head-and-shoulders better, IMO.

Lechler had 33 inside the 20 Scifres had 19Lechler had a net of 41.2 Scifres has a net of 40.9

Lechler has had 43 returned but punted 90 times. Scifres has had 23 returned but punted 51 times

Donnie Jones also had a better net than Scifres

 

[Bri]

I doubt Lechler has ever come close to the performance Scifres had last night.

that's quite irrelevant to the pro bowl but I'd be willing to bet he has. We are talking about one of the better punters in NFL history in Lechler. At the moment(after 9 years) he has the highest avg in NFL history.All-Pro TeamsGlossary2000 - Associated Press: 1st team all-NFL2000 - Sporting News: 1st team all-NFL2001 - Pro Football Weekly: 1st team all-conf.2001 - Associated Press: 2nd team all-NFL2003 - Associated Press: 1st team all-NFL2003 - Pro Football Writers: 1st team all-NFL2004 - Pro Football Weekly: 1st team all-conf.2004 - Associated Press: 1st team all-NFL2004 - Pro Football Writers: 1st team all-NFL2004 - Sporting News: 1st team all-NFL2007 - Associated Press: 2nd team all-NFL How long does he have to do it to make the HOF? 15 years? I'd imagine punting requires a lllllong career.Highest avg, best amongst peers(above), he COULD be a compelling case then.As I said initially, Scifres is very good but he's not best all time good.

 

[Tau837]

I doubt Lechler has ever come close to the performance Scifres had last night.

that's quite irrelevant to the pro bowl but I'd be willing to bet he has. We are talking about one of the better punters in NFL history in Lechler. At the moment(after 9 years) he has the highest avg in NFL history.All-Pro TeamsGlossary2000 - Associated Press: 1st team all-NFL2000 - Sporting News: 1st team all-NFL2001 - Pro Football Weekly: 1st team all-conf.2001 - Associated Press: 2nd team all-NFL2003 - Associated Press: 1st team all-NFL2003 - Pro Football Writers: 1st team all-NFL2004 - Pro Football Weekly: 1st team all-conf.2004 - Associated Press: 1st team all-NFL2004 - Pro Football Writers: 1st team all-NFL2004 - Sporting News: 1st team all-NFL2007 - Associated Press: 2nd team all-NFL How long does he have to do it to make the HOF? 15 years? I'd imagine punting requires a lllllong career.Highest avg, best amongst peers(above), he COULD be a compelling case then.As I said initially, Scifres is very good but he's not best all time good.

No punter will or should ever make the HOF unless he plays some other offensive or defensive position at a HOF level. That said, I don't want to hijack this thread to get into a debate over it.ETA: And who in here said Scifres is "best all time good"? I thought we were discussing the fact that he should have been a Pro Bowler.

 

[Bri]

No punter will or should ever make the HOF unless he plays some other offensive or defensive position at a HOF level. That said, I don't want to hijack this thread to get into a debate over it.

I almost agree with this. If for a moment we consider Sammy a punter, it could certainly be argued that no one will ever come close to doing what Sammy did as a punter(and passer and DB) so then it fits. Ignoring a position just sounds wrong so sugarcoating it that way works better for me.

ETA: And who in here said Scifres is "best all time good"? I thought we were discussing the fact that he should have been a Pro Bowler.

Lechler is best all time good, as I pointed out but was rebuffed with Scifres is better.

 

[Tau837]

No punter will or should ever make the HOF unless he plays some other offensive or defensive position at a HOF level. That said, I don't want to hijack this thread to get into a debate over it.

I almost agree with this. If for a moment we consider Sammy a punter, it could certainly be argued that no one will ever come close to doing what Sammy did as a punter(and passer and DB) so then it fits. Ignoring a position just sounds wrong so sugarcoating it that way works better for me.

ETA: And who in here said Scifres is "best all time good"? I thought we were discussing the fact that he should have been a Pro Bowler.

Lechler is best all time good, as I pointed out but was rebuffed with Scifres is better.

I am not prepared to judge the best all time punter, though I will say I don't think it is Ray Guy. But I do think Scifres was a better punter this season. For this season, including last night's gameunts inside 20: Scifres 25/57 = 43.9%, Lechler 33/90 = 36.7%Punts that resulted in touchbacks: Scifres 5/57 = 8.8%, Lechler 13/90 = 14.4%Punts returned: Scifres 25/57 = 43.9%, Lechler 43/90 = 47.8%Average yards per return: Scifres/Chargers 152/25 = 6.1, Lechler/Raiders = 425/43 = 9.9Yards per punt: Scifres 2648/57 = 46.5, Lechler 4391/90 = 48.8Net yards per punt: Scifres 2396/57 = 42.0, Lechler 3706/90 = 41.2Lechler edges Scifres only on gross yards, but as Maurile pointed out, it is reasonable to think that advantage may be due to field position. And Scifres had a better net average, anyway.

 

[Bri]

No punter will or should ever make the HOF unless he plays some other offensive or defensive position at a HOF level. That said, I don't want to hijack this thread to get into a debate over it.

I almost agree with this. If for a moment we consider Sammy a punter, it could certainly be argued that no one will ever come close to doing what Sammy did as a punter(and passer and DB) so then it fits. Ignoring a position just sounds wrong so sugarcoating it that way works better for me.

ETA: And who in here said Scifres is "best all time good"? I thought we were discussing the fact that he should have been a Pro Bowler.

Lechler is best all time good, as I pointed out but was rebuffed with Scifres is better.

I am not prepared to judge the best all time punter, though I will say I don't think it is Ray Guy. But I do think Scifres was a better punter this season. For this season, including last night's gameunts inside 20: Scifres 25/57 = 43.9%, Lechler 33/90 = 36.7%Punts that resulted in touchbacks: Scifres 5/57 = 8.8%, Lechler 13/90 = 14.4%Punts returned: Scifres 25/57 = 43.9%, Lechler 43/90 = 47.8%Average yards per return: Scifres/Chargers 152/25 = 6.1, Lechler/Raiders = 425/43 = 9.9Yards per punt: Scifres 2648/57 = 46.5, Lechler 4391/90 = 48.8Net yards per punt: Scifres 2396/57 = 42.0, Lechler 3706/90 = 41.2Lechler edges Scifres only on gross yards, but as Maurile pointed out, it is reasonable to think that advantage may be due to field position. And Scifres had a better net average, anyway.

Only? Do you miss the stats you posted?Do you think I don't realize you added last night's game in?The SD fans in these type threads are a trip-no one can ever be better even when stats are right in front of you

 

[Bri]

actual stats

CNNSI

Rank Player Team G Punts Yds Avg Lg In20 In10 FC TB Blk Ret Yds Net

1 Donnie Jones STL 16 82 4100 50.0 68 20 7 7 7 0 57 590 41.1

2 Shane Lechler OAK 16 90 4391 48.8 70 33 13 11 13 0 43 425 41.2

3 Andy Lee SF 16 66 3155 47.8 82 13 4 11 9 1 39 364 39.6

4 Chris Kluwe MIN 16 73 3473 47.6 62 23 7 8 13 1 42 624 35.5

5 Brett Kern DEN 15 46 2149 46.7 64 13 4 6 4 0 28 330 37.8

6 Mike Scifres SD 16 51 2332 45.7 67 19 8 12 5 0 23 146 40.9

PFR

2008 28 SDG P 16 51 2332 67 0 45.7

 

[Unwrittenlaw]

No punter will or should ever make the HOF unless he plays some other offensive or defensive position at a HOF level. That said, I don't want to hijack this thread to get into a debate over it.

I almost agree with this. If for a moment we consider Sammy a punter, it could certainly be argued that no one will ever come close to doing what Sammy did as a punter(and passer and DB) so then it fits. Ignoring a position just sounds wrong so sugarcoating it that way works better for me.

ETA: And who in here said Scifres is "best all time good"? I thought we were discussing the fact that he should have been a Pro Bowler.

Lechler is best all time good, as I pointed out but was rebuffed with Scifres is better.

I am not prepared to judge the best all time punter, though I will say I don't think it is Ray Guy. But I do think Scifres was a better punter this season. For this season, including last night's gameunts inside 20: Scifres 25/57 = 43.9%, Lechler 33/90 = 36.7%

Punts that resulted in touchbacks: Scifres 5/57 = 8.8%, Lechler 13/90 = 14.4%

Punts returned: Scifres 25/57 = 43.9%, Lechler 43/90 = 47.8%

Average yards per return: Scifres/Chargers 152/25 = 6.1, Lechler/Raiders = 425/43 = 9.9

Yards per punt: Scifres 2648/57 = 46.5, Lechler 4391/90 = 48.8

Net yards per punt: Scifres 2396/57 = 42.0, Lechler 3706/90 = 41.2

Lechler edges Scifres only on gross yards, but as Maurile pointed out, it is reasonable to think that advantage may be due to field position. And Scifres had a better net average, anyway.

Only? Do you miss the stats you posted?Do you think I don't realize you added last night's game in?

The SD fans in these type threads are a trip-no one can ever be better even when stats are right in front of you

If you don't include last night's stats, Scifres is still better in all of those categories. Stop looking at Yards per punt for godfking sakes. Also, why are you even mentioning Donnie Jones? He doesn't even belong in the conversation because there's no comparison.http://www.nfl.com/stats/headtohead?player...lect+a+Player...

Look at Punt Return Yds Against/Punts Fair Caught/Punts Returned also.

 

[Bri]

No punter will or should ever make the HOF unless he plays some other offensive or defensive position at a HOF level. That said, I don't want to hijack this thread to get into a debate over it.

I almost agree with this. If for a moment we consider Sammy a punter, it could certainly be argued that no one will ever come close to doing what Sammy did as a punter(and passer and DB) so then it fits. Ignoring a position just sounds wrong so sugarcoating it that way works better for me.

ETA: And who in here said Scifres is "best all time good"? I thought we were discussing the fact that he should have been a Pro Bowler.

Lechler is best all time good, as I pointed out but was rebuffed with Scifres is better.

I am not prepared to judge the best all time punter, though I will say I don't think it is Ray Guy. But I do think Scifres was a better punter this season. For this season, including last night's gameunts inside 20: Scifres 25/57 = 43.9%, Lechler 33/90 = 36.7%

Punts that resulted in touchbacks: Scifres 5/57 = 8.8%, Lechler 13/90 = 14.4%

Punts returned: Scifres 25/57 = 43.9%, Lechler 43/90 = 47.8%

Average yards per return: Scifres/Chargers 152/25 = 6.1, Lechler/Raiders = 425/43 = 9.9

Yards per punt: Scifres 2648/57 = 46.5, Lechler 4391/90 = 48.8

Net yards per punt: Scifres 2396/57 = 42.0, Lechler 3706/90 = 41.2

Lechler edges Scifres only on gross yards, but as Maurile pointed out, it is reasonable to think that advantage may be due to field position. And Scifres had a better net average, anyway.

Only? Do you miss the stats you posted?Do you think I don't realize you added last night's game in?

The SD fans in these type threads are a trip-no one can ever be better even when stats are right in front of you

If you don't include last night's stats, Scifres is still better in all of those categories. Stop looking at Yards per punt for godfking sakes. Also, why are you even mentioning Donnie Jones? He doesn't even belong in the conversation because there's no comparison.http://www.nfl.com/stats/headtohead?player...lect+a+Player...

Look at Punt Return Yds Against/Punts Fair Caught/Punts Returned also.

no he's notNote JWB's last sentence then look at your link

net average 41.2 for Lecher 40.9 for Scifres

 

[Tau837]

No punter will or should ever make the HOF unless he plays some other offensive or defensive position at a HOF level. That said, I don't want to hijack this thread to get into a debate over it.

I almost agree with this. If for a moment we consider Sammy a punter, it could certainly be argued that no one will ever come close to doing what Sammy did as a punter(and passer and DB) so then it fits. Ignoring a position just sounds wrong so sugarcoating it that way works better for me.

ETA: And who in here said Scifres is "best all time good"? I thought we were discussing the fact that he should have been a Pro Bowler.

Lechler is best all time good, as I pointed out but was rebuffed with Scifres is better.

I am not prepared to judge the best all time punter, though I will say I don't think it is Ray Guy. But I do think Scifres was a better punter this season. For this season, including last night's gameunts inside 20: Scifres 25/57 = 43.9%, Lechler 33/90 = 36.7%

Punts that resulted in touchbacks: Scifres 5/57 = 8.8%, Lechler 13/90 = 14.4%

Punts returned: Scifres 25/57 = 43.9%, Lechler 43/90 = 47.8%

Average yards per return: Scifres/Chargers 152/25 = 6.1, Lechler/Raiders = 425/43 = 9.9

Yards per punt: Scifres 2648/57 = 46.5, Lechler 4391/90 = 48.8

Net yards per punt: Scifres 2396/57 = 42.0, Lechler 3706/90 = 41.2

Lechler edges Scifres only on gross yards, but as Maurile pointed out, it is reasonable to think that advantage may be due to field position. And Scifres had a better net average, anyway.

Only? Do you miss the stats you posted?Do you think I don't realize you added last night's game in?

The SD fans in these type threads are a trip-no one can ever be better even when stats are right in front of you

Do I miss the stats I posted? No. I posted them. Do I think you don't realize I included last night's game? No. Apparently you missed this part of my post: "I do think Scifres was a better punter this season. For this season, including last night's game: ..." Did you think I was trying to hide it from you?

I included last night's game because I am addressing who was the better punter this season, Scifres or Lechler. As I posted. "This season" includes this season's playoffs IMO... so Lechler is done but Scifres isn't. And IMO it makes sense to have as large a sample size as possible for this season if we truly want to determine which one was better this year, especially since Lechler posted so many more times than Scifres this year.

Even eliminating last night's game from consideration and sticking with only the regular season leaves us with the following:

Punts inside 20: Scifres 19/51 = 37.3%, Lechler 33/90 = 36.7%

Punts that resulted in touchbacks: Scifres 5/51 = 9.8%, Lechler 13/90 = 14.4%

Punts returned: Scifres 23/51 = 45.1%, Lechler 43/90 = 47.8%

Average yards per return: Scifres/Chargers 146/23 = 6.3, Lechler/Raiders = 425/43 = 9.9

Yards per punt: Scifres 2332/51 = 45.7, Lechler 4391/90 = 48.8

Net yards per punt: Scifres 2086/51 = 40.9, Lechler 3706/90 = 41.2

Lechler was better at yards per punt and net yards per punt. Again, as Maurile pointed out, that could be explained by field position. In fact, let's look at that (splits from ESPN).

Inside own 20:

Lechler 16/90 (17.8%) punts for 43.9 net yards per punt

Scifres 11/51 (21.6%) punts for 44.5 net yards per punt

Between own 21 and 50:

Lechler 63/90 (70%) punts for 41.8 net yards per punt

Scifres 31/51 (60.8%) punts for 42.6 net yards per punt

Opposing territory:

Lechler 11/90 (12.2%) punts for 33.6 net yards per punt

Scifres 9/51 (17.6%) punts for 30.4 net yards per punt

So Scifres was better at net yards per punt except when in opposing territory... and because a higher percentage of his punts were in opposing territory, it pulls his average down just below Lechler's.

Looking at these numbers as a whole, Scifres was more effective. So the only reason to say Lechler was better would be to give him credit for punting more frequently.

 

[Bri]

Do I miss the stats I posted? No. I posted them.

Do I think you don't realize I included last night's game? No. Apparently you missed this part of my post: "I do think Scifres was a better punter this season. For this season, including last night's game: ..." Did you think I was trying to hide it from you?

I included last night's game because I am addressing who was the better punter this season, Scifres or Lechler. As I posted. "This season" includes this season's playoffs IMO... so Lechler is done but Scifres isn't. And IMO it makes sense to have as large a sample size as possible for this season if we truly want to determine which one was better this year, especially since Lechler posted so many more times than Scifres this year.

what a load of...Want a bigger sample size? Lechler has a higher average than every punter in NFL history after 9 years.

If your boy needs an extra game to be better than you are inadvertently conceding

 

[Koya]

Wow. An all out war over punters. PUNTERS, PEOPLE!

Lay off the crack folks...

 

[Bri]

Wow. An all out war over punters. PUNTERS, PEOPLE!Lay off the crack folks...

I'm not a fan of posting misleading stats here or misrepresenting stats here, it's just plain wrong.You're right though, this should end so I'll walk away from this thread

 

[Tau837]

Do I miss the stats I posted? No. I posted them.

Do I think you don't realize I included last night's game? No. Apparently you missed this part of my post: "I do think Scifres was a better punter this season. For this season, including last night's game: ..." Did you think I was trying to hide it from you?

I included last night's game because I am addressing who was the better punter this season, Scifres or Lechler. As I posted. "This season" includes this season's playoffs IMO... so Lechler is done but Scifres isn't. And IMO it makes sense to have as large a sample size as possible for this season if we truly want to determine which one was better this year, especially since Lechler posted so many more times than Scifres this year.

what a load of...Want a bigger sample size? Lechler has a higher average than every punter in NFL history after 9 years.

If your boy needs an extra game to be better than you are inadvertently conceding

Ah, so you chose to ignore the rest of my post, which addressed why Scifres was better without the playoff game. As expected.

 

[Tau837]

Wow. An all out war over punters. PUNTERS, PEOPLE!Lay off the crack folks...

I'm not a fan of posting misleading stats here or misrepresenting stats here, it's just plain wrong.You're right though, this should end so I'll walk away from this thread

I didn't post anything misleading. Though you apparently missed it, I specifically stated what I was posting when I posted it. You disagreed with my premise so I posted a new set of stats and analysis for regular season only, which you ignored.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

If your boy needs an extra game to be better than you are inadvertently conceding

Lechler is the one who needed the extra games to be better. After week 15 -- the last time I had looked -- Scifres had a higher net yards per punt than Lechler did. After week 17, Lechler had apparently caught up for a week or two before falling behind again this past week. So I will concede that I was wrong and that Lechler was temporarily ahead for a short period right at the end of the regular season.At the time of the Pro Bowl voting, Scifres had the higher net yards per punt (as well as higher inside-the-twenty percentage, lower touchback percentage, and lower returned percentage).Also at the time of the Pro Bowl voting, Rivers had the most TDs, the best TD-INT ratio, the highest passer rating, and the most yards per attempt (as well as adjusted yards per attempt, of course, given his TD-INT ratio).

 

[Ghost Rider]

So, let me get this straight:

The AFC's three QBs were Manning, Cutler and Favre. Favre is not going because of an injury, so the first alternate was...Kerry Collins??? Really?

 

[thatguy]

So, let me get this straight:The AFC's three QBs were Manning, Cutler and Favre. Favre is not going because of an injury, so the first alternate was...Kerry Collins??? Really?

That's a joke.

 

[Despyzer]

So, let me get this straight:The AFC's three QBs were Manning, Cutler and Favre. Favre is not going because of an injury, so the first alternate was...Kerry Collins??? Really?

It's just another case of the man trying to keep Philip Rivers down.

 

[Tau837]

So, let me get this straight:The AFC's three QBs were Manning, Cutler and Favre. Favre is not going because of an injury, so the first alternate was...Kerry Collins??? Really?

I read that Rivers was asked and declined.

 

[thatguy]

So, let me get this straight:The AFC's three QBs were Manning, Cutler and Favre. Favre is not going because of an injury, so the first alternate was...Kerry Collins??? Really?

I read that Rivers was asked and declined.

Well that makes more sense, but is Kerry Collins really the next best choice? What a sad sad state of affairs.

 

[sho nuff]

So, let me get this straight:The AFC's three QBs were Manning, Cutler and Favre. Favre is not going because of an injury, so the first alternate was...Kerry Collins??? Really?

I read that Rivers was asked and declined.

Well that makes more sense, but is Kerry Collins really the next best choice? What a sad sad state of affairs.

Yeah...why have a guy who lead the best team in the AFC...

 

[thatguy]

So, let me get this straight:The AFC's three QBs were Manning, Cutler and Favre. Favre is not going because of an injury, so the first alternate was...Kerry Collins??? Really?

I read that Rivers was asked and declined.

Well that makes more sense, but is Kerry Collins really the next best choice? What a sad sad state of affairs.

Yeah...why have a guy who lead the best team in the AFC...

I think there were better options

 

[Garts]

So, let me get this straight:The AFC's three QBs were Manning, Cutler and Favre. Favre is not going because of an injury, so the first alternate was...Kerry Collins??? Really?

I read that Rivers was asked and declined.

Well that makes more sense, but is Kerry Collins really the next best choice? What a sad sad state of affairs.

Yeah...why have a guy who lead the best team in the AFC...

I think there were better options

Pennington

 

[Despyzer]

Yeah...why have a guy who lead the best team in the AFC...

For that matter, why put it to a vote at all? Just populate the team with all the players from the team with the best regular season record.

 

[Bri]

So, let me get this straight:The AFC's three QBs were Manning, Cutler and Favre. Favre is not going because of an injury, so the first alternate was...Kerry Collins??? Really?

I read that Rivers was asked and declined.

Well that makes more sense, but is Kerry Collins really the next best choice? What a sad sad state of affairs.

Yeah...why have a guy who lead the best team in the AFC...

best record in NFL but regardless, Kerry having a great year is not saying Kerry had a great career which alot of us would debate. It's just one year and Kerry led his team as well or better than most every QB in the NFL in 08.

 

[Bri]

Yeah...why have a guy who lead the best team in the AFC...

For that matter, why put it to a vote at all? Just populate the team with all the players from the team with the best regular season record.

why are chargers fans (around here)always so bitter about the pro bowl? It's not just this year. It really seems to "get under their skin" for some reason.

 

[Despyzer]

Yeah...why have a guy who lead the best team in the AFC...

For that matter, why put it to a vote at all? Just populate the team with all the players from the team with the best regular season record.

why are chargers fans (around here)always so bitter about the pro bowl? It's not just this year. It really seems to "get under their skin" for some reason.

Are you defending the suggestion that the inclusion of Collins for no other reason than that he was a starter on the team with the best regular season record? That has nothing to do with being a fan of any team, and your attack of Chargers fans in general gives the impression that you are the one that is taking this personally.

 

[Bri]

Yeah...why have a guy who lead the best team in the AFC...

For that matter, why put it to a vote at all? Just populate the team with all the players from the team with the best regular season record.

why are chargers fans (around here)always so bitter about the pro bowl? It's not just this year. It really seems to "get under their skin" for some reason.

Are you defending the suggestion that the inclusion of Collins for no other reason than that he was a starter on the team with the best regular season record? That has nothing to do with being a fan of any team, and your attack of Chargers fans in general gives the impression that you are the one that is taking this personally.

Many of us, if not all, have been posting here a long time. It was simply a question out of curiousity. Was Fouts not in "back in the day"? There's something oddly common about it amongst SD fans here so I just asked.Feel free to search for previous years or scroll back to see Maurile, JWB, yourself and other SD fans posts in this thread for examples.

 

[Bri]

Are you defending the suggestion that the inclusion of Collins for no other reason than that he was a starter on the team with the best regular season record?

I replied to a previous post continuing an earlier sentiment. That said, yes I'd be fine with that.Us FFers do get too carried away with glorious stats and miss guys like Simms, Aikman, Dilfer, and Collins from time to time. (No I'm not saying they're all equal just not 4k yard "oh my" FF stats) I don't think it's a bad idea to work in a winner or winning leader for a replacement.

 

[Tau837]

Yeah...why have a guy who lead the best team in the AFC...

For that matter, why put it to a vote at all? Just populate the team with all the players from the team with the best regular season record.

why are chargers fans (around here)always so bitter about the pro bowl? It's not just this year. It really seems to "get under their skin" for some reason.

Are you defending the suggestion that the inclusion of Collins for no other reason than that he was a starter on the team with the best regular season record? That has nothing to do with being a fan of any team, and your attack of Chargers fans in general gives the impression that you are the one that is taking this personally.

Many of us, if not all, have been posting here a long time. It was simply a question out of curiousity. Was Fouts not in "back in the day"? There's something oddly common about it amongst SD fans here so I just asked.Feel free to search for previous years or scroll back to see Maurile, JWB, yourself and other SD fans posts in this thread for examples.

I'm not bitter about the Pro Bowl, if that's what you are implying here. I simply think if the NFL is going to have a Pro Bowl, it should make sure the most deserving players make it. The fact that Rivers was not initially selected is laughable... there is no defending putting Favre in over him this year. I also posted some about Scifres in this thread, and I think he deserved to make the Pro Bowl, too... but I think it's more understandable why he didn't.I don't recall complaining about any Chargers failing to make the Pro Bowl in previous years. There is no ongoing theme of complaint on this front from me.

 

[Bri]

I'm not bitter about the Pro Bowl, if that's what you are implying here. I simply think if the NFL is going to have a Pro Bowl, it should make sure the most deserving players make it. The fact that Rivers was not initially selected is laughable... there is no defending putting Favre in over him this year. I also posted some about Scifres in this thread, and I think he deserved to make the Pro Bowl, too... but I think it's more understandable why he didn't.I don't recall complaining about any Chargers failing to make the Pro Bowl in previous years. There is no ongoing theme of complaint on this front from me.

Yeah I get a hint of that from you here with "Rivers is not selected is laughable" comment.FWIW I have been told that the NFL is considerring moving the voting to later in the season. I really think that that throws people when discussing it. We're really discussing "thru 11 weeks" or 12 not for the 2008 season. Favre and Rivers would swap darling and goat roles over the next 5 weeks but at that point the Chargers didn't look good at all and the Jets were 8-2 or 8-3 or somesuch.

 

[Tau837]

I'm not bitter about the Pro Bowl, if that's what you are implying here. I simply think if the NFL is going to have a Pro Bowl, it should make sure the most deserving players make it. The fact that Rivers was not initially selected is laughable... there is no defending putting Favre in over him this year. I also posted some about Scifres in this thread, and I think he deserved to make the Pro Bowl, too... but I think it's more understandable why he didn't.I don't recall complaining about any Chargers failing to make the Pro Bowl in previous years. There is no ongoing theme of complaint on this front from me.

Yeah I get a hint of that from you here with "Rivers is not selected is laughable" comment.FWIW I have been told that the NFL is considerring moving the voting to later in the season. I really think that that throws people when discussing it. We're really discussing "thru 11 weeks" or 12 not for the 2008 season. Favre and Rivers would swap darling and goat roles over the next 5 weeks but at that point the Chargers didn't look good at all and the Jets were 8-2 or 8-3 or somesuch.

It is laughable. That's not bitterness, that's fact. There is no good argument to support it. And Rivers was hardly a "goat" through 11 weeks... he was leading the NFL in TD passes and QB rating. Sure, Favre's team had more wins, but why not Kerry Collins in the first place then, if that's the criteria?Glad they will move the voting later in the season. There is no good reason to do it so early.

 

[Bri]

I'm not bitter about the Pro Bowl, if that's what you are implying here. I simply think if the NFL is going to have a Pro Bowl, it should make sure the most deserving players make it. The fact that Rivers was not initially selected is laughable... there is no defending putting Favre in over him this year. I also posted some about Scifres in this thread, and I think he deserved to make the Pro Bowl, too... but I think it's more understandable why he didn't.I don't recall complaining about any Chargers failing to make the Pro Bowl in previous years. There is no ongoing theme of complaint on this front from me.

Yeah I get a hint of that from you here with "Rivers is not selected is laughable" comment.FWIW I have been told that the NFL is considerring moving the voting to later in the season. I really think that that throws people when discussing it. We're really discussing "thru 11 weeks" or 12 not for the 2008 season. Favre and Rivers would swap darling and goat roles over the next 5 weeks but at that point the Chargers didn't look good at all and the Jets were 8-2 or 8-3 or somesuch.

It is laughable. That's not bitterness, that's fact. There is no good argument to support it. And Rivers was hardly a "goat" through 11 weeks... he was leading the NFL in TD passes and QB rating. Sure, Favre's team had more wins, but why not Kerry Collins in the first place then, if that's the criteria?Glad they will move the voting later in the season. There is no good reason to do it so early.

well the QB getting the credit for Ws and the "rap" for losses is just sorta life in the NFL so I think Rivers had some negative light on him at that time-that's what I was trying to convey.Just to reiterate I was only told they'd discuss, not actually change it. I suppose we'll wait to see what they decide.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Feel free to search for previous years or scroll back to see Maurile, JWB, yourself and other SD fans posts in this thread for examples.

I point out both the Chargers that should have made it but didn't, and the Chargers that made it but shouldn't have.This year, Rivers and Scifres should have made it; Dielman and Gates shouldn't have. (And Cromartie shouldn't have made it as an alternate.)JWB is right that there are no good arguments for keeping Rivers out. He was the #1 QB in the NFL this season by just about every standard measure (QB rating, TD passes, TD-INT ratio, yards per attempt, adjusted net yards per attempt) -- and that was just as true when the voting took place as it was at the end of the season.Also, LT and his 2370 yards (and 17 TDs) from scrimmage should have made it in 2003.