Q&A About the car business or buying a car (1 Viewer)

[bierfiend]

godgers, very nice of you (and others) to share your insider knowledge. thank you. again, if this has been asked my apologies.i have been browsing through cars.com and auto-trader for some used cars. if the price is right, i am willing to hop on a plane and do a one way + little road trip. most that i am looking at are offered via a dealership of some sort, some private owners. recommendations on how to get the car checked out when i see some i am interested in. also, when they are offered from a dealer, how much wiggle room is there on the price listed? danke,bier

 

[Random]

Great thread!

 

[godgers12]

This is a great thread.Not sure if this has been asked, but I can't understand why anyone would want to buy a new car, due to how much the car depreciates in the first couple of years. From now on, I only buy certified pre-owned cars that are 3 years old. Question is, in your opinion, is the markup for "certification" worth it or is better to just buy the car used from someone? Couple of years ago I bought a 2008 Acura RL certified with 25K miles for about 32K all in inlcuding taxes and title. Price was $30,400. I think the blue book value of it at that time was about $28,900, so the markup for certification was $1,500. I thought that was a good deal. Is a 5% markup a typical price to certify a car?

can't speak for everyone else (manufacturer wise) but for chrysler for us to certify a vehicle it was 200.00... Now keep in mind though that was just for a certification, not including anything that has to be don to make it pass the 120+ point inspection.

 

[godgers12]

You really know a lot, no?Tell me, how crappy are Chrysler products, really?

To be honest Chrysler has changed their product 100000000%. If you haven't seen what they have in the past 4 years you should take a look. There is a TON of Italian influence now, and their interiors for not being a "luxury priced" car is second to none. I drive a Ram truck and wouldnt trade it for anything. Wife drives a Grand Cherokee and traded her X5 in for it and LOVES IT, and it was 2/3 the cost of her X5..

I really want a Cherokee because it's one of the few V8 smaller SUV's.. i dont' want a big SUV and almost none of the smaller one's have a V8 anymore... Pathfinder, 4-Runner, Explorer... none have a v8 anymore.But i've always heard miserable things about the reliability..... i don't care about options and interiors.. only engine performance and reliability of working mechanisms.How has yours done?The only thing i've seen with comparable towing in the same size is shockingly the VW Tourareg... and I don't want German engineering

Why do you want a V8? 350+ HP out of a V6 works well. I've driven the Flex, Taurus SHO, F-150, and Explorer Sport with the 3.5L Ecoboost and don't think you would want any more torque. They all scream. I've driven Hemi 1500's as well and they were a blast, but I didn't feel any more power.

a ram 1500 has quite a bit more power than a explorer sport or any of the other V6 you mentioned lol, but I agree I would probably go with the V6 in a Grand Cherokee if given the chance to do it over, but I have no interest in the new V6 ram 1500.

 

[godgers12]

leaving for now ill be back later though to answer the other ones, unless nugget is still around

 

[Dentist]

You really know a lot, no?Tell me, how crappy are Chrysler products, really?

To be honest Chrysler has changed their product 100000000%. If you haven't seen what they have in the past 4 years you should take a look. There is a TON of Italian influence now, and their interiors for not being a "luxury priced" car is second to none. I drive a Ram truck and wouldnt trade it for anything. Wife drives a Grand Cherokee and traded her X5 in for it and LOVES IT, and it was 2/3 the cost of her X5..

I really want a Cherokee because it's one of the few V8 smaller SUV's.. i dont' want a big SUV and almost none of the smaller one's have a V8 anymore... Pathfinder, 4-Runner, Explorer... none have a v8 anymore.But i've always heard miserable things about the reliability..... i don't care about options and interiors.. only engine performance and reliability of working mechanisms.How has yours done?The only thing i've seen with comparable towing in the same size is shockingly the VW Tourareg... and I don't want German engineering

Why do you want a V8? 350+ HP out of a V6 works well. I've driven the Flex, Taurus SHO, F-150, and Explorer Sport with the 3.5L Ecoboost and don't think you would want any more torque. They all scream. I've driven Hemi 1500's as well and they were a blast, but I didn't feel any more power.

I need the tow capacity for my boat. The V6 doesn't quite have enough.The v8 does, it's not a matter of road performance... But I tow several days in the summer and my V6 trailblazer kind of struggles with it... so i end up borrowing my dad's suburban for some of the tows... and i'd like to stop bothering him.The only V6 i've seen with massive tow capacity is the VW Tourareg... but it's expensive and isn't rated all that well in terms of reliability either.

 

[Nugget]

You really know a lot, no?Tell me, how crappy are Chrysler products, really?

To be honest Chrysler has changed their product 100000000%. If you haven't seen what they have in the past 4 years you should take a look. There is a TON of Italian influence now, and their interiors for not being a "luxury priced" car is second to none. I drive a Ram truck and wouldnt trade it for anything. Wife drives a Grand Cherokee and traded her X5 in for it and LOVES IT, and it was 2/3 the cost of her X5..

I really want a Cherokee because it's one of the few V8 smaller SUV's.. i dont' want a big SUV and almost none of the smaller one's have a V8 anymore... Pathfinder, 4-Runner, Explorer... none have a v8 anymore.But i've always heard miserable things about the reliability..... i don't care about options and interiors.. only engine performance and reliability of working mechanisms.How has yours done?The only thing i've seen with comparable towing in the same size is shockingly the VW Tourareg... and I don't want German engineering

Why do you want a V8? 350+ HP out of a V6 works well. I've driven the Flex, Taurus SHO, F-150, and Explorer Sport with the 3.5L Ecoboost and don't think you would want any more torque. They all scream. I've driven Hemi 1500's as well and they were a blast, but I didn't feel any more power.

I need the tow capacity for my boat. The V6 doesn't quite have enough.The v8 does, it's not a matter of road performance... But I tow several days in the summer and my V6 trailblazer kind of struggles with it... so i end up borrowing my dad's suburban for some of the tows... and i'd like to stop bothering him.The only V6 i've seen with massive tow capacity is the VW Tourareg... but it's expensive and isn't rated all that well in terms of reliability either.

Understood. The engine could probably handle the boat, but the rest of the vehicle could not. The 3.5L V6 from Ford in an F150 has a higher max tow capacity (11.3K) than the 6.2L V8. The same engine in the Explorer has a max tow of 5K. 90% of SUV owners don't tow and of the 10% who do over half tow less than 5K.

 

[Nugget]

You really know a lot, no?Tell me, how crappy are Chrysler products, really?

To be honest Chrysler has changed their product 100000000%. If you haven't seen what they have in the past 4 years you should take a look. There is a TON of Italian influence now, and their interiors for not being a "luxury priced" car is second to none. I drive a Ram truck and wouldnt trade it for anything. Wife drives a Grand Cherokee and traded her X5 in for it and LOVES IT, and it was 2/3 the cost of her X5..

I really want a Cherokee because it's one of the few V8 smaller SUV's.. i dont' want a big SUV and almost none of the smaller one's have a V8 anymore... Pathfinder, 4-Runner, Explorer... none have a v8 anymore.But i've always heard miserable things about the reliability..... i don't care about options and interiors.. only engine performance and reliability of working mechanisms.How has yours done?The only thing i've seen with comparable towing in the same size is shockingly the VW Tourareg... and I don't want German engineering

Why do you want a V8? 350+ HP out of a V6 works well. I've driven the Flex, Taurus SHO, F-150, and Explorer Sport with the 3.5L Ecoboost and don't think you would want any more torque. They all scream. I've driven Hemi 1500's as well and they were a blast, but I didn't feel any more power.

a ram 1500 has quite a bit more power than a explorer sport or any of the other V6 you mentioned lol, but I agree I would probably go with the V6 in a Grand Cherokee if given the chance to do it over, but I have no interest in the new V6 ram 1500.

i haven't driven a hemi recently - sold at a Dodge store from 2002 to 2005. I imagine the new Hemi's are 400+ HP. I had a regular cab Hemi Sport with the 20" wheels - it screamed... After my daughter was born in late 2003 I went into a 4 door hemi that was a lot of fun as well. I rented a Grand Cherokee last year in New Mexico witht the v6. I was the first driver and it performed very well.

 

[Nugget]

godgers, very nice of you (and others) to share your insider knowledge. thank you. again, if this has been asked my apologies.i have been browsing through cars.com and auto-trader for some used cars. if the price is right, i am willing to hop on a plane and do a one way + little road trip. most that i am looking at are offered via a dealership of some sort, some private owners. recommendations on how to get the car checked out when i see some i am interested in. also, when they are offered from a dealer, how much wiggle room is there on the price listed? danke,bier

There is always wiggle room on a used car, especially from a dealer. A used car is depreciating every day. A good guide is to look at what rough and average trade would be on the vehicle through a site like KBB or cars.com. Try to figure recon costs based on the age of the vehicle - $300 to $700 on average, and then a fair markup to the dealer. Used cars are nothing more than metal and numbers. If you are looking for an Altima, the are 300 for sale today in Phoenix. Don't get to attached to a specific car.The private owner may be less likely to move on price. Either they owe the asking price on the car or they are too attached to the vehicle.

 

[5Rings]

What about the Costco program? Heard that you get awesome prices using it.

Costco limits dealerships to $500 over invoice.I've had great success on my last two purchases through costco.

 

[5Rings]

You really know a lot, no?Tell me, how crappy are Chrysler products, really?

To be honest Chrysler has changed their product 100000000%. If you haven't seen what they have in the past 4 years you should take a look. There is a TON of Italian influence now, and their interiors for not being a "luxury priced" car is second to none. I drive a Ram truck and wouldnt trade it for anything. Wife drives a Grand Cherokee and traded her X5 in for it and LOVES IT, and it was 2/3 the cost of her X5..

I really want a Cherokee because it's one of the few V8 smaller SUV's.. i dont' want a big SUV and almost none of the smaller one's have a V8 anymore... Pathfinder, 4-Runner, Explorer... none have a v8 anymore.But i've always heard miserable things about the reliability..... i don't care about options and interiors.. only engine performance and reliability of working mechanisms.How has yours done?The only thing i've seen with comparable towing in the same size is shockingly the VW Tourareg... and I don't want German engineering

Why do you want a V8? 350+ HP out of a V6 works well. I've driven the Flex, Taurus SHO, F-150, and Explorer Sport with the 3.5L Ecoboost and don't think you would want any more torque. They all scream. I've driven Hemi 1500's as well and they were a blast, but I didn't feel any more power.

I just bought a loaded F150 with Ecoboost and it rocks (I added a program / CAI / Exhaust, well over 450 horses and 20mpg). I drove a Dodge Hemi and Chevy 5.3L prior to purchase and it wasn't even close.eta--Dentist, its towing capacity is ideal for you

 

[cstu]

godgers, very nice of you (and others) to share your insider knowledge. thank you. again, if this has been asked my apologies.i have been browsing through cars.com and auto-trader for some used cars. if the price is right, i am willing to hop on a plane and do a one way + little road trip. most that i am looking at are offered via a dealership of some sort, some private owners. recommendations on how to get the car checked out when i see some i am interested in. also, when they are offered from a dealer, how much wiggle room is there on the price listed? danke,bier

There is always wiggle room on a used car, especially from a dealer. A used car is depreciating every day. A good guide is to look at what rough and average trade would be on the vehicle through a site like KBB or cars.com. Try to figure recon costs based on the age of the vehicle - $300 to $700 on average, and then a fair markup to the dealer. Used cars are nothing more than metal and numbers. If you are looking for an Altima, the are 300 for sale today in Phoenix. Don't get to attached to a specific car.The private owner may be less likely to move on price. Either they owe the asking price on the car or they are too attached to the vehicle.

Private owners have most likely priced the car fairly to start with so there's usually less room to negotiate. My best experiences buying private party cars is from older professional guys who are the first or second owners. These guys don't want to waste a lot of time selling the car. IMO, a major advantage of buying from a private seller is you get to meet the owner of the car and judge how well they took car of it.

 

[ShaqAttaq]

I bought my Tacoma using the Costco auto buying program. It was painless. I shopped the price, and the other area dealers would only match or only beat the Costco price by a couple dollars. As a result I just stayed with the dealer that worked with Costco.

 

[Dentist]

You really know a lot, no?Tell me, how crappy are Chrysler products, really?

To be honest Chrysler has changed their product 100000000%. If you haven't seen what they have in the past 4 years you should take a look. There is a TON of Italian influence now, and their interiors for not being a "luxury priced" car is second to none. I drive a Ram truck and wouldnt trade it for anything. Wife drives a Grand Cherokee and traded her X5 in for it and LOVES IT, and it was 2/3 the cost of her X5..

I really want a Cherokee because it's one of the few V8 smaller SUV's.. i dont' want a big SUV and almost none of the smaller one's have a V8 anymore... Pathfinder, 4-Runner, Explorer... none have a v8 anymore.But i've always heard miserable things about the reliability..... i don't care about options and interiors.. only engine performance and reliability of working mechanisms.How has yours done?The only thing i've seen with comparable towing in the same size is shockingly the VW Tourareg... and I don't want German engineering

Why do you want a V8? 350+ HP out of a V6 works well. I've driven the Flex, Taurus SHO, F-150, and Explorer Sport with the 3.5L Ecoboost and don't think you would want any more torque. They all scream. I've driven Hemi 1500's as well and they were a blast, but I didn't feel any more power.

I just bought a loaded F150 with Ecoboost and it rocks (I added a program / CAI / Exhaust, well over 450 horses and 20mpg). I drove a Dodge Hemi and Chevy 5.3L prior to purchase and it wasn't even close.eta--Dentist, its towing capacity is ideal for you

are you talking about your f150? I'm not sure i want a pickup. I would like an SUV... and not to have a huge one... do you like the Cherokee? or no?

 

[Dentist]

I bought my Tacoma using the Costco auto buying program. It was painless. I shopped the price, and the other area dealers would only match or only beat the Costco price by a couple dollars. As a result I just stayed with the dealer that worked with Costco.

did you trade in a car?the slickdeals forum says the costco pricing is good, but you have to be careful with the trade in.. it almost encourages you to sell your car yourself... true, not true?

 

[Dentist]

You really know a lot, no?Tell me, how crappy are Chrysler products, really?

To be honest Chrysler has changed their product 100000000%. If you haven't seen what they have in the past 4 years you should take a look. There is a TON of Italian influence now, and their interiors for not being a "luxury priced" car is second to none. I drive a Ram truck and wouldnt trade it for anything. Wife drives a Grand Cherokee and traded her X5 in for it and LOVES IT, and it was 2/3 the cost of her X5..

I really want a Cherokee because it's one of the few V8 smaller SUV's.. i dont' want a big SUV and almost none of the smaller one's have a V8 anymore... Pathfinder, 4-Runner, Explorer... none have a v8 anymore.But i've always heard miserable things about the reliability..... i don't care about options and interiors.. only engine performance and reliability of working mechanisms.How has yours done?The only thing i've seen with comparable towing in the same size is shockingly the VW Tourareg... and I don't want German engineering

Why do you want a V8? 350+ HP out of a V6 works well. I've driven the Flex, Taurus SHO, F-150, and Explorer Sport with the 3.5L Ecoboost and don't think you would want any more torque. They all scream. I've driven Hemi 1500's as well and they were a blast, but I didn't feel any more power.

I need the tow capacity for my boat. The V6 doesn't quite have enough.The v8 does, it's not a matter of road performance... But I tow several days in the summer and my V6 trailblazer kind of struggles with it... so i end up borrowing my dad's suburban for some of the tows... and i'd like to stop bothering him.The only V6 i've seen with massive tow capacity is the VW Tourareg... but it's expensive and isn't rated all that well in terms of reliability either.

Understood. The engine could probably handle the boat, but the rest of the vehicle could not. The 3.5L V6 from Ford in an F150 has a higher max tow capacity (11.3K) than the 6.2L V8. The same engine in the Explorer has a max tow of 5K. 90% of SUV owners don't tow and of the 10% who do over half tow less than 5K.

you saying the cherokee would or would not tow the boat with the v8?I dont need an 11.3K tow capacity.. my trailblazer has a 4.2l v6 and is rated at 5500 lbs. the way its equipped. I'd say my boat (with gear/gas) and trailer is around 4500-5000 lbs.. so it tows it, but it's a struggle with hills and what not.the Cherokee is rated at 7400 lbs. so i figure it would take care of business with ease.shockingly the VW tourareg is rated for 7700 lbs!

 

[NajehHejan]

close to buying a base model 2013 outback, the 2.5i, not the premium or limited, with the 4 cyl and cvt. they started at 25194 msrp (includes 795 dest fee, no other bs). I asked for 1000 off to get to 24194. they came back with 500 off to get to 24694. they let me walk but i pretty much got the drift from the sales mgr that he would have taken off the extra 500 and done 24194 had i committed to sign, but he encouraged me to think about it and not stress. per edmunds, the msrp with the 795 dest fee is 25290, but the invoice price is 23835 and the fair market value in my zip code is 23628. can i get them to sell me this car for 23628?

 

[ShaqAttaq]

I bought my Tacoma using the Costco auto buying program. It was painless. I shopped the price, and the other area dealers would only match or only beat the Costco price by a couple dollars. As a result I just stayed with the dealer that worked with Costco.

did you trade in a car?the slickdeals forum says the costco pricing is good, but you have to be careful with the trade in.. it almost encourages you to sell your car yourself... true, not true?

i did not trade in a car as part of the transaction, nor did i attempt to. edit: i'd assume that the dealer (since the costco sale is a 'mini') will try to make as much off of the trade-in as possible, since the wiggle room has been removed from the purchase price portion of the deal.

 

[RustyFA4]

Godgers, thanks very much for this topic. The wife and I just found out we are having kid number 2. She has a 2010 hhr with low miles we are going to trade. We would like a kid friendly suv. What is your recommendation ? What kind of jeep would you go for and will it pull a good sized boat? We would probably go for a used one as we really want as little a payment as possible.How does the new price compare to used?And a 2nd issue, I have a 2000 ford ranger stick I bought new. It only has 50,000 miles and has been taken care of wellbutrin has scratches etc. I used it as a truck. We were thinking of bundling the two and getting a newish suv for the wife and a truck with a lot of miles but can haul kids around for me. Would I get killed trading it in? I know it isn't worth much but I need something where I can haul kids in. Could we bundle all into one loan? Would you advise us to?Both are paid for and we have fantastic credit as I am cheap but responsible.

 

[Mario Kart]

Hey godgers,I'm not currently in the market for a car. Would prefer investing money right now instead, but I am keeping an eye on three models and hope they make improvements or others jump in this arena. Do you know much about the:Nissan LeafHonda InsightHonda Civic HybridThose would be my future vehicle as of right now.

 

[Nugget]

You really know a lot, no?Tell me, how crappy are Chrysler products, really?

To be honest Chrysler has changed their product 100000000%. If you haven't seen what they have in the past 4 years you should take a look. There is a TON of Italian influence now, and their interiors for not being a "luxury priced" car is second to none. I drive a Ram truck and wouldnt trade it for anything. Wife drives a Grand Cherokee and traded her X5 in for it and LOVES IT, and it was 2/3 the cost of her X5..

I really want a Cherokee because it's one of the few V8 smaller SUV's.. i dont' want a big SUV and almost none of the smaller one's have a V8 anymore... Pathfinder, 4-Runner, Explorer... none have a v8 anymore.But i've always heard miserable things about the reliability..... i don't care about options and interiors.. only engine performance and reliability of working mechanisms.How has yours done?The only thing i've seen with comparable towing in the same size is shockingly the VW Tourareg... and I don't want German engineering

Why do you want a V8? 350+ HP out of a V6 works well. I've driven the Flex, Taurus SHO, F-150, and Explorer Sport with the 3.5L Ecoboost and don't think you would want any more torque. They all scream. I've driven Hemi 1500's as well and they were a blast, but I didn't feel any more power.

I need the tow capacity for my boat. The V6 doesn't quite have enough.The v8 does, it's not a matter of road performance... But I tow several days in the summer and my V6 trailblazer kind of struggles with it... so i end up borrowing my dad's suburban for some of the tows... and i'd like to stop bothering him.The only V6 i've seen with massive tow capacity is the VW Tourareg... but it's expensive and isn't rated all that well in terms of reliability either.

Understood. The engine could probably handle the boat, but the rest of the vehicle could not. The 3.5L V6 from Ford in an F150 has a higher max tow capacity (11.3K) than the 6.2L V8. The same engine in the Explorer has a max tow of 5K. 90% of SUV owners don't tow and of the 10% who do over half tow less than 5K.

you saying the cherokee would or would not tow the boat with the v8?I dont need an 11.3K tow capacity.. my trailblazer has a 4.2l v6 and is rated at 5500 lbs. the way its equipped. I'd say my boat (with gear/gas) and trailer is around 4500-5000 lbs.. so it tows it, but it's a struggle with hills and what not.the Cherokee is rated at 7400 lbs. so i figure it would take care of business with ease.shockingly the VW tourareg is rated for 7700 lbs!

The Cherokee with the Hemi will tow your boat fine. It is a RWD, body on frame design. Most mid size SUVs are migrating to a unibody platform that maximize handling and fuel efficiency at the expense of towing capacity.

 

[Tchula]

What is the difference is strategy on buying used as opposed to new?

 

[St. Louis Bob]

What is the difference is strategy on buying used as opposed to new?

Personally, when I bought my last two new cars, I did it all by e-mail. All of these places, as Godogers mentioned, has designated web people. They don't make a ton of money on this. Check out KBB find out the invoice. Then e-mail the dealerships on the car you want, options etc. They then all send back pricing. I played them all against each other until they all started to say I can't go any lower. I made them aware of this too. I actually went with a place that was $100 bucks higher because I liked her style. She worked harder than the rest. I'm a sales guy too so I appreciate these things.

 

[NajehHejan]

hey godgers, are you out there? would you be able to help me out on my ? above about the Outback?

 

[Dentist]

What is the difference is strategy on buying used as opposed to new?

Personally, when I bought my last two new cars, I did it all by e-mail. All of these places, as Godogers mentioned, has designated web people. They don't make a ton of money on this. Check out KBB find out the invoice. Then e-mail the dealerships on the car you want, options etc. They then all send back pricing. I played them all against each other until they all started to say I can't go any lower. I made them aware of this too. I actually went with a place that was $100 bucks higher because I liked her style. She worked harder than the rest. I'm a sales guy too so I appreciate these things.

These were new cars?When I get ready to buy i'm going to ask for a template of how this all worked...

 

[Random]

What is the difference is strategy on buying used as opposed to new?

Personally, when I bought my last two new cars, I did it all by e-mail. All of these places, as Godogers mentioned, has designated web people. They don't make a ton of money on this. Check out KBB find out the invoice. Then e-mail the dealerships on the car you want, options etc. They then all send back pricing. I played them all against each other until they all started to say I can't go any lower. I made them aware of this too. I actually went with a place that was $100 bucks higher because I liked her style. She worked harder than the rest. I'm a sales guy too so I appreciate these things.

These were new cars?When I get ready to buy i'm going to ask for a template of how this all worked...

Last time I bought a new car Edmunds.com did this for you.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

What is the difference is strategy on buying used as opposed to new?

Personally, when I bought my last two new cars, I did it all by e-mail. All of these places, as Godogers mentioned, has designated web people. They don't make a ton of money on this. Check out KBB find out the invoice. Then e-mail the dealerships on the car you want, options etc. They then all send back pricing. I played them all against each other until they all started to say I can't go any lower. I made them aware of this too. I actually went with a place that was $100 bucks higher because I liked her style. She worked harder than the rest. I'm a sales guy too so I appreciate these things.

These were new cars?When I get ready to buy i'm going to ask for a template of how this all worked...

Yes, both were new.Go here plug in the car you want and the options. At the end it tells you MSRP and dealer invoice. Then it will list different dealers in your area and give you the option to e-mail them for a quote. Pretty painless and easy. I didn't have to beat them up too badly because they all were relatively close in price which was below invoice.

 

[Sarnoff]

godgers, how accurate is the Edmunds article where they put a writer undercover as a salesman? The world still the same?

 

[beerbarron]

Stemming from the other thread thought I would start this. I by know means am a life long car guy but I did it for 2 years and know enough to know how the crap works. I went from a very, very successful job, but traveling all the time to trying this out. The money would have been A LOT better for me if I didn't have a soul but I just couldn't do people like most other salesman could.I worked at the same dealership (chrysler,dodge,jeep,ram) for 2 years and just recently quit in the past couple weeks.If you have any questions about the business sales, finance, etc. Or if you are planning on buying a car and know what you want etc. (it doesn't only have to be Chrysler) I would be more than happy to help and make sure you can sleep well knowing you didn't just pay some douchebags mortgage that month.

Been looking for a new car but cant find it on the lots, usually sold out, or at nearby dealers so I would have to order it from the factory, The dealer says probably a three month wait time. How much negotiating power do you loose when doing this? What are the best tactics to get the price down when having to order one? Seems many of the same strategies mentioned would work but any ideas are much appreciated. Great thread.. Thanks..

 

[Tchula]

What is the difference is strategy on buying used as opposed to new?

Personally, when I bought my last two new cars, I did it all by e-mail. All of these places, as Godogers mentioned, has designated web people. They don't make a ton of money on this. Check out KBB find out the invoice. Then e-mail the dealerships on the car you want, options etc. They then all send back pricing. I played them all against each other until they all started to say I can't go any lower. I made them aware of this too. I actually went with a place that was $100 bucks higher because I liked her style. She worked harder than the rest. I'm a sales guy too so I appreciate these things.

These were new cars?When I get ready to buy i'm going to ask for a template of how this all worked...

Yes, both were new.Go here plug in the car you want and the options. At the end it tells you MSRP and dealer invoice. Then it will list different dealers in your area and give you the option to e-mail them for a quote. Pretty painless and easy. I didn't have to beat them up too badly because they all were relatively close in price which was below invoice.

I just talked to a dealer who swore no dealer uses KBB values on used cars. Is this true?

 

[Dentist]

godgers, how accurate is the Edmunds article where they put a writer undercover as a salesman? The world still the same?

i'm working through this unbelievably long article, but am fascinated.thanks for burning all of my free time this afternoon

 

[Sarnoff]

godgers, how accurate is the Edmunds article where they put a writer undercover as a salesman? The world still the same?

i'm working through this unbelievably long article, but am fascinated.thanks for burning all of my free time this afternoon

My absolute favorite part was the first job interview, when he dropped the secret phrase that he learned was guaranteed to get him the job:

"Why do you want to work here?"My first inclination was to say, hey, I'm a car freak. Always have been. I could explain cars, how they work, get people excited about the performance and the different features. But then I remembered my editor's advice.I smiled at Dave, trying to convey the feeling that the answer was obvious."I want to make a lot of money," I said.The effect on Dave was amazing. He smiled and relaxed, as if I had said the password to enter an exclusive club. If this had been a cartoon, dollar signs would have appeared in his eyes accompanied by a loud "Cha-ching!"

 

[Marvelous]

godgers, how accurate is the Edmunds article where they put a writer undercover as a salesman? The world still the same?

i'm working through this unbelievably long article, but am fascinated.thanks for burning all of my free time this afternoon

My absolute favorite part was the first job interview, when he dropped the secret phrase that he learned was guaranteed to get him the job:

"Why do you want to work here?"My first inclination was to say, hey, I'm a car freak. Always have been. I could explain cars, how they work, get people excited about the performance and the different features. But then I remembered my editor's advice.I smiled at Dave, trying to convey the feeling that the answer was obvious."I want to make a lot of money," I said.The effect on Dave was amazing. He smiled and relaxed, as if I had said the password to enter an exclusive club. If this had been a cartoon, dollar signs would have appeared in his eyes accompanied by a loud "Cha-ching!"

I read the article on Edmunds a number of years ago. It was excellent.

 

[NRV77]

You really know a lot, no?

Tell me, how crappy are Chrysler products, really?

To be honest Chrysler has changed their product 100000000%. If you haven't seen what they have in the past 4 years you should take a look. There is a TON of Italian influence now, and their interiors for not being a "luxury priced" car is second to none. I drive a Ram truck and wouldnt trade it for anything. Wife drives a Grand Cherokee and traded her X5 in for it and LOVES IT, and it was 2/3 the cost of her X5..

I really want a Cherokee because it's one of the few V8 smaller SUV's.. i dont' want a big SUV and almost none of the smaller one's have a V8 anymore... Pathfinder, 4-Runner, Explorer... none have a v8 anymore.But i've always heard miserable things about the reliability..... i don't care about options and interiors.. only engine performance and reliability of working mechanisms.

How has yours done?

The only thing i've seen with comparable towing in the same size is shockingly the VW Tourareg... and I don't want German engineering

Why do you want a V8? 350+ HP out of a V6 works well. I've driven the Flex, Taurus SHO, F-150, and Explorer Sport with the 3.5L Ecoboost and don't think you would want any more torque. They all scream. I've driven Hemi 1500's as well and they were a blast, but I didn't feel any more power.

I just bought a loaded F150 with Ecoboost and it rocks (I added a program / CAI / Exhaust, well over 450 horses and 20mpg). I drove a Dodge Hemi and Chevy 5.3L prior to purchase and it wasn't even close.

eta--Dentist, its towing capacity is ideal for you

Can you PM me with additional details on exactly what you added, so as not to muck up this thread? I have the same truck and am very interested in those numbers.

 

[Sarnoff]

I read the article on Edmunds a number of years ago. It was excellent.

Here's the 2009 update, and the rest of Edmunds' "Confessions" series.

 

[johnnycakes]

What is the difference is strategy on buying used as opposed to new?

Personally, when I bought my last two new cars, I did it all by e-mail. All of these places, as Godogers mentioned, has designated web people. They don't make a ton of money on this. Check out KBB find out the invoice. Then e-mail the dealerships on the car you want, options etc. They then all send back pricing. I played them all against each other until they all started to say I can't go any lower. I made them aware of this too. I actually went with a place that was $100 bucks higher because I liked her style. She worked harder than the rest. I'm a sales guy too so I appreciate these things.

These were new cars?When I get ready to buy i'm going to ask for a template of how this all worked...

Yes, both were new.Go here plug in the car you want and the options. At the end it tells you MSRP and dealer invoice. Then it will list different dealers in your area and give you the option to e-mail them for a quote. Pretty painless and easy. I didn't have to beat them up too badly because they all were relatively close in price which was below invoice.

I just talked to a dealer who swore no dealer uses KBB values on used cars. Is this true?

For figuring the buying price of a used car, I would find this very easy to believe. But for figuring the trade value for your car... I'd go in prepared with a fairly completed KBB report and, after negotiating the buying price of the new vehicle, tell them they have to give me that number in order to seal the deal. After they come back $1k or more lower, I tell them they have to be within, say, $300, or I walk. And i do walk if they don't come back with the right number.

 

[Nugget]

What is the difference is strategy on buying used as opposed to new?

Personally, when I bought my last two new cars, I did it all by e-mail. All of these places, as Godogers mentioned, has designated web people. They don't make a ton of money on this. Check out KBB find out the invoice. Then e-mail the dealerships on the car you want, options etc. They then all send back pricing. I played them all against each other until they all started to say I can't go any lower. I made them aware of this too. I actually went with a place that was $100 bucks higher because I liked her style. She worked harder than the rest. I'm a sales guy too so I appreciate these things.

These were new cars?When I get ready to buy i'm going to ask for a template of how this all worked...

Yes, both were new.Go here plug in the car you want and the options. At the end it tells you MSRP and dealer invoice. Then it will list different dealers in your area and give you the option to e-mail them for a quote. Pretty painless and easy. I didn't have to beat them up too badly because they all were relatively close in price which was below invoice.

I just talked to a dealer who swore no dealer uses KBB values on used cars. Is this true?

Dealers get mailed NADA black books at once a month, maybe 2x. They also are at multiple auctions each week. Kelly is a guide, not the rule. "Kelly says my car is worth $8500.""Great - when can Kelly write you a check?"

 

[Nugget]

close to buying a base model 2013 outback, the 2.5i, not the premium or limited, with the 4 cyl and cvt. they started at 25194 msrp (includes 795 dest fee, no other bs). I asked for 1000 off to get to 24194. they came back with 500 off to get to 24694. they let me walk but i pretty much got the drift from the sales mgr that he would have taken off the extra 500 and done 24194 had i committed to sign, but he encouraged me to think about it and not stress. per edmunds, the msrp with the 795 dest fee is 25290, but the invoice price is 23835 and the fair market value in my zip code is 23628. can i get them to sell me this car for 23628?

I don't know anyone with a Subaru dealership but I'd guess you can get under $24K for that vehicle. Might be a bit tougher if you live in the mountains or Pacific NW. Subaru kills the Seattle and Denver markets.

 

[Marvelous]

Here is a story and question about used cars.Around 2001, I was looking at a used Saturn. Go ahead and laugh, but we don't drive fancy cars. It was 2 years old and had very low mileage. The dealer had certified it. Carfax was clean. I took it for a test drive and it seemed fine. In the corner of the windshield, there was an oil change sticker with a Saturn dealer in another part of the state. I called and asked about the service history and they faxed me the entire service history.The car was a lease and was in a major accident less than a year into the lease. The owner took it to another shop to fix and have body work done. He later came to the Saturn dealer with a burned out headlight and some other electrical issues. They ran diagnositcs and replaced the headlight, but it was burned out again a short time later. It was having some other electrical issues too. He apparently got another car and stopped driving the Saturn. And after 18 months, broke the lease and returned the car. Obviously, I was turned off by the vehicle history and did not buy this car.My question: are there different levels of dealer certification? Or are there just some things certification will not catch? Or is certification better now than it was in 2001?

 

[Dentist]

godgers, how accurate is the Edmunds article where they put a writer undercover as a salesman? The world still the same?

i'm working through this unbelievably long article, but am fascinated.thanks for burning all of my free time this afternoon

My absolute favorite part was the first job interview, when he dropped the secret phrase that he learned was guaranteed to get him the job:

"Why do you want to work here?"My first inclination was to say, hey, I'm a car freak. Always have been. I could explain cars, how they work, get people excited about the performance and the different features. But then I remembered my editor's advice.I smiled at Dave, trying to convey the feeling that the answer was obvious."I want to make a lot of money," I said.The effect on Dave was amazing. He smiled and relaxed, as if I had said the password to enter an exclusive club. If this had been a cartoon, dollar signs would have appeared in his eyes accompanied by a loud "Cha-ching!"

Whole story of the first dealership made me think it was the equivalent of the stock brokerage from the excellent movie "Boiler Room"

 

[Nugget]

Here is a story and question about used cars.Around 2001, I was looking at a used Saturn. Go ahead and laugh, but we don't drive fancy cars. It was 2 years old and had very low mileage. The dealer had certified it. Carfax was clean. I took it for a test drive and it seemed fine. In the corner of the windshield, there was an oil change sticker with a Saturn dealer in another part of the state. I called and asked about the service history and they faxed me the entire service history.The car was a lease and was in a major accident less than a year into the lease. The owner took it to another shop to fix and have body work done. He later came to the Saturn dealer with a burned out headlight and some other electrical issues. They ran diagnositcs and replaced the headlight, but it was burned out again a short time later. It was having some other electrical issues too. He apparently got another car and stopped driving the Saturn. And after 18 months, broke the lease and returned the car. Obviously, I was turned off by the vehicle history and did not buy this car.My question: are there different levels of dealer certification? Or are there just some things certification will not catch? Or is certification better now than it was in 2001?

Certification is not perfect. A Ford, if a vehicle has been in a significant accident, it does not qualify for certification. We don't always no about about every incident - only things that are reported. I'd feel comfortable going with any manufacturers certified program over most traditional used cars. You are going to get a better level of car in most cases, but issues will still slip thru the cracks.

 

[mquinnjr]

OK, here's my situation:

Second leased Acura, both through same dealership. Have a 2011 Acura TSX w/Technology package. 0 down, $410/month, 12,000 miles/yr. Lease ends 9/2014. I am at a good place financially, and I'll save you the details but I project that I will be able to pay cash for the residual of $19,470 in my contract in 9/2014, should I choose to do so. I'm trying to put together the most conservative budget possible to write a check for this car between now and lease end.

I love this car, and would have no problem owning it. I will also be way over mileage, if I had to guess probably coming around 42-45k @ $.0.20/mile over 36,000. Between the fees on that (~$1500-2k) and the ability to buy, it sort of makes sense to do so and stop leasing for me. My questions are as follows:

1) The balloon price, can this be negotiated at all under any scenario, or is it a "take it or leave it" deal since it's in the lease contract I signed? I did some research on some Edmunds and AcuraZine forums, and get answers all over the place. Have you seen any scenarios where it would be plausible to get that price down?

2) I've only leased, so what am I looking at besides NJ sales tax on the purchase price, since there wouldn't be delivery, etc.?

3) I also think I will skip a warranty, since I think I'd rather have a fund for repairs/maintenance vs. a warranty that might not cover what I need it to, which would be sinfully wasteful. And I bought Acura for the reliability/low maintenance that "should" entail owning in the long run. Right approach, or have I read this wrong?

4) Am I missing anything else here on a purchase off of a lease?

Thanks for your help, appreciate it!

 

[Angry Beavers]

OK, here's my situation:Second leased Acura, both through same dealership. Have a 2011 Acura TSX w/Technology package. 0 down, $410/month, 12,000 miles/yr. Lease ends 9/2014. I am at a good place financially, and I'll save you the details but I project that I will be able to pay cash for the residual of $19,470 in my contract in 9/2014, should I choose to do so. I'm trying to put together the most conservative budget possible to write a check for this car between now and lease end.I love this car, and would have no problem owning it. I will also be way over mileage, if I had to guess probably coming around 42-45k @ $.0.20/mile over 36,000. Between the fees on that (~$1500-2k) and the ability to buy, it sort of makes sense to do so and stop leasing for me. My questions are as follows: 1) The balloon price, can this be negotiated at all under any scenario, or is it a "take it or leave it" deal since it's in the lease contract I signed? I did some research on some Edmunds and AcuraZine forums, and get answers all over the place. Have you seen any scenarios where it would be plausible to get that price down?2) I've only leased, so what am I looking at besides NJ sales tax on the purchase price, since there wouldn't be delivery, etc.? 3) I also think I will skip a warranty, since I think I'd rather have a fund for repairs/maintenance vs. a warranty that might not cover what I need it to, which would be sinfully wasteful. And I bought Acura for the reliability/low maintenance that "should" entail owning in the long run. Right approach, or have I read this wrong?4) Am I missing anything else here on a purchase off of a lease?Thanks for your help, appreciate it!

BUMP as I am in almost the exact same spot with the Wife's Odyssey.

 

[Angry Beavers]

Going to try bumping this..................

 

[Nugget]

OK, here's my situation:

Second leased Acura, both through same dealership. Have a 2011 Acura TSX w/Technology package. 0 down, $410/month, 12,000 miles/yr. Lease ends 9/2014. I am at a good place financially, and I'll save you the details but I project that I will be able to pay cash for the residual of $19,470 in my contract in 9/2014, should I choose to do so. I'm trying to put together the most conservative budget possible to write a check for this car between now and lease end.

I love this car, and would have no problem owning it. I will also be way over mileage, if I had to guess probably coming around 42-45k @ $.0.20/mile over 36,000. Between the fees on that (~$1500-2k) and the ability to buy, it sort of makes sense to do so and stop leasing for me. My questions are as follows:

1) The balloon price, can this be negotiated at all under any scenario, or is it a "take it or leave it" deal since it's in the lease contract I signed? I did some research on some Edmunds and AcuraZine forums, and get answers all over the place. Have you seen any scenarios where it would be plausible to get that price down?

2) I've only leased, so what am I looking at besides NJ sales tax on the purchase price, since there wouldn't be delivery, etc.?

3) I also think I will skip a warranty, since I think I'd rather have a fund for repairs/maintenance vs. a warranty that might not cover what I need it to, which would be sinfully wasteful. And I bought Acura for the reliability/low maintenance that "should" entail owning in the long run. Right approach, or have I read this wrong?

4) Am I missing anything else here on a purchase off of a lease?

Thanks for your help, appreciate it!

1. I've never seen the residual negotiated. If the car is worth less than the residual and the fees, don't buy it. For cars that are turned in, the dealer has the option to purchase the car for X amount that is based on current auction prices. Ford has a system called "Accelerate" - I'm sure Honda has a similar system. Some dealers will skip this and follow the car to auction hoping to get it cheaper. If the dealer can buy it, expect for him to mark it up at least $500. If you really want the car, going through the normal lease buy out is probably safest.

2. Check you contract - you would be looking at sales tax on the residual plus there is likely a transfer of ownership fee. These should be listed in your lease contract. You can also contact the F&I dept at the dealership to discuss.

3. How have you done in maintaining your vehicle? Are you using the right fluids or getting the cheapest possible stuff from Jiffy Lube? Service contracts are negative EV by nature, but does your vehicle line have a history of catastrophic failures of a major component at certain mileages/times? You can purchase maintenance and/or mechanical coverage that cover most items (not sheet metal/glass/aftermarket add ons but these are covered by auto insurance).

Here are the issues people have had with 2010 Acura TSX - Link -not sure if they are continuing into 2011. Go make friends with the service advisor at the Acura dealership and find out what he sees.

4. I think you've hit the major points. You are in essence buying a 3 year old Acura for $20K and you know the service history. If you like the car and plan to keep it at least another 2 years, go for it. If you could buy a contract to protect the car for the next 3-4 years until you hit 100K miles, I'd consider it - especially with the "technology package" - doesn't sound cheap.

 

[Angry Beavers]

Thanks for the insight Nugget.

 

[mquinnjr]

OK, here's my situation:

Second leased Acura, both through same dealership. Have a 2011 Acura TSX w/Technology package. 0 down, $410/month, 12,000 miles/yr. Lease ends 9/2014. I am at a good place financially, and I'll save you the details but I project that I will be able to pay cash for the residual of $19,470 in my contract in 9/2014, should I choose to do so. I'm trying to put together the most conservative budget possible to write a check for this car between now and lease end.

I love this car, and would have no problem owning it. I will also be way over mileage, if I had to guess probably coming around 42-45k @ $.0.20/mile over 36,000. Between the fees on that (~$1500-2k) and the ability to buy, it sort of makes sense to do so and stop leasing for me. My questions are as follows:

1) The balloon price, can this be negotiated at all under any scenario, or is it a "take it or leave it" deal since it's in the lease contract I signed? I did some research on some Edmunds and AcuraZine forums, and get answers all over the place. Have you seen any scenarios where it would be plausible to get that price down?

2) I've only leased, so what am I looking at besides NJ sales tax on the purchase price, since there wouldn't be delivery, etc.?

3) I also think I will skip a warranty, since I think I'd rather have a fund for repairs/maintenance vs. a warranty that might not cover what I need it to, which would be sinfully wasteful. And I bought Acura for the reliability/low maintenance that "should" entail owning in the long run. Right approach, or have I read this wrong?

4) Am I missing anything else here on a purchase off of a lease?

Thanks for your help, appreciate it!

1. I've never seen the residual negotiated. If the car is worth less than the residual and the fees, don't buy it. For cars that are turned in, the dealer has the option to purchase the car for X amount that is based on current auction prices. Ford has a system called "Accelerate" - I'm sure Honda has a similar system. Some dealers will skip this and follow the car to auction hoping to get it cheaper. If the dealer can buy it, expect for him to mark it up at least $500. If you really want the car, going through the normal lease buy out is probably safest.

2. Check you contract - you would be looking at sales tax on the residual plus there is likely a transfer of ownership fee. These should be listed in your lease contract. You can also contact the F&I dept at the dealership to discuss.

3. How have you done in maintaining your vehicle? Are you using the right fluids or getting the cheapest possible stuff from Jiffy Lube? Service contracts are negative EV by nature, but does your vehicle line have a history of catastrophic failures of a major component at certain mileages/times? You can purchase maintenance and/or mechanical coverage that cover most items (not sheet metal/glass/aftermarket add ons but these are covered by auto insurance).

Here are the issues people have had with 2010 Acura TSX - Link -not sure if they are continuing into 2011. Go make friends with the service advisor at the Acura dealership and find out what he sees.

4. I think you've hit the major points. You are in essence buying a 3 year old Acura for $20K and you know the service history. If you like the car and plan to keep it at least another 2 years, go for it. If you could buy a contract to protect the car for the next 3-4 years until you hit 100K miles, I'd consider it - especially with the "technology package" - doesn't sound cheap.

Nugget, thanks so much for taking the time to put this response together, man. Much appreciated.

Acura's are pretty low maintenance, but I do take care of it when it needs it, lease or not. I put the good synthetic oil in at the exact frequency the dealer told me to. No other maintenance milestones reached at this point in the lease for me. All good points about the value of the car and how the dealer will handle it at lease end if I turn it in. Thanks also for the heads up on a potential warranty, I'll have to go over the fine print and see if it makes sense to jump in on it or not. GREAT link on problems with the car, bookmarking that now.

I really do like it, and would like to own it for about 4-5 years. Give me time to really aggressively save what I'd be making in car payments over that time. You've given me some good data points to consider, exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!!!

 

[Garrett]

You really know a lot, no?Tell me, how crappy are Chrysler products, really?

To be honest Chrysler has changed their product 100000000%. If you haven't seen what they have in the past 4 years you should take a look. There is a TON of Italian influence now, and their interiors for not being a "luxury priced" car is second to none. I drive a Ram truck and wouldnt trade it for anything. Wife drives a Grand Cherokee and traded her X5 in for it and LOVES IT, and it was 2/3 the cost of her X5..

I really want a Cherokee because it's one of the few V8 smaller SUV's.. i dont' want a big SUV and almost none of the smaller one's have a V8 anymore... Pathfinder, 4-Runner, Explorer... none have a v8 anymore.But i've always heard miserable things about the reliability..... i don't care about options and interiors.. only engine performance and reliability of working mechanisms.How has yours done?The only thing i've seen with comparable towing in the same size is shockingly the VW Tourareg... and I don't want German engineering

Why do you want a V8? 350+ HP out of a V6 works well. I've driven the Flex, Taurus SHO, F-150, and Explorer Sport with the 3.5L Ecoboost and don't think you would want any more torque. They all scream. I've driven Hemi 1500's as well and they were a blast, but I didn't feel any more power.

I just bought a loaded F150 with Ecoboost and it rocks (I added a program / CAI / Exhaust, well over 450 horses and 20mpg). I drove a Dodge Hemi and Chevy 5.3L prior to purchase and it wasn't even close.eta--Dentist, its towing capacity is ideal for you

Absolutely, my old F150 was the updated 5.0 v8, but I just got the Ecoboost on my new truck and it is amazing.

What type of exhaust did you add?

 

[BassNBrew]

I would advise not to buy a formal rental car. After the Citation, I bought a groovy Cavalier from Enterprise. It broke down more than the Cavalier. I later had a car friend tell me that people are really hard on rentals so it's a bad idea buying to own. FWIW.

I hear that a lot and it's always one of those things that I think should be on snopes.how are these people driving a car 'really hard'?I can see how they might mistreat the interior, but when you drive a rental are you driving 'harder', somehow, than your own car?yeah, maybe you bump into more stuff, but all that body work is either fixed, or you can see it.I think the problem with rentals is they pick up an asston of mileage pretty quick, so a year after you get them you might be out of warranty.if you buy a car from some random dude off craigslist how do you know how hard he was driving?he might be driving that thing hard every day for 3 years, and twice a year put 4 hard days on that rental.edit: and if enterprise doesn't sell it direct to you, they probably ship to auctions where it's bought by dealers and resold to you off teh lot.

I knew a guy 25 years ago who drove 25 miles of city driving w/o using the brakes.

 

[Spin]

Ok, so I'm all of a sudden looking to get a newer car. I've only ever owned 2 cars, and I paid cash for them both privately. I bought an 02 Cadillac Seville in 2006 and been driving it ever since. Recently the AC compressor went out as well as a few other tune ups, tires, etc that needs to be done, I'm looking at around 2k for repairs, with 195k miles on it. My mechanic (who's a friend of the family and I trust him) told me not to get it all fixed just to sell it/trade it in as the car is going to start becoming pretty expensive here with the work that typically needs to be done coming up.

I'll have the Caddy as a trade-in, but that would be about it as far as downpayment would go. There's a used car place nearby that has a Volvo XC90 that my fiancee has fell in love with. We need would need to get a car relatively quickly, as the kid rides around with her and not having AC when it's 90 outside is not an option for the 10 month old. We also have a 02 beater explorer, which I'm perfectly fine driving and will drive this damn car til it blows up on me. I love the thing, but two doors makes it incredibly hard to put a kid in and out of.

So looking for a a good SUV, thinking 07-09, that's easy to get the kid in and out of. Any suggestions as to what to look for? Price range looking for <20k, never financed a car before so it's all new to me.