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QB Baker Mayfield, TB (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter OU#1
- Start date
That’s why it’s a dumb move for Carolina, they were one of about 5 teams in the running for a top 5 pick next year. Darnold guaranteed them a shot to be there. Baker’s just good enough to win them a few games and keep them out of a top pick. Baker’s also in the last year of his deal and Carolina is in the bottom 3 in projected cap space next year and if Baker does play well your going to have to shell out a big number to resign him.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
This is the issue when you let the GM/HC that’s on the hot seat continue to make decisions.
This trade definitely makes the team better in 2022, but not a true contender and it’s likely bad for the long term health of the franchise.
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Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Every team has sunk costs at quarterback.
The Browns sunk cost went down $8 million after dealing Mayfield.
Carolina is paying Sam Darnold his full salary.
In 2022, Darnold will earn a base salary of $18,858,000, while carrying a cap hit of $18,858,000 and a dead cap value of $18,858,000.
They added Baker Mayfield's salary.
Mayfield will earn a base salary of $4,858,000, while carrying a cap hit of $4,858,000 and a dead cap value of $5,000,000.
Carolina is paying over $23 million for Sam Darnold and Baker Mayfield this year.
Next year, Baker will be off the Browns books and Watson's suspension 'likely' will be served. The $8 million saved this year on Baker's salary will be rolled over to next year.
Last year Mayfield was asking for contract extension of over $40 million per year, Andrew Berry who did not draft Mayfield waited and did not sign to an extension saving $22 million last year that helped him pay out large signing bonus' to 'core' players which is one of the reasons their roster is considered one of the best in the league.
If Watson is suspended the full season his entire salary for this season is on the Browns books so they would roll over $50 million to next year while Watson would not accrue a season, meaning the Browns would gain an 'extra year' of his contract without a cap hit.
IMHO the signing of Watson was a long-term solution at QB with a high sunk cost. He sat out last year, he would/will come in rusty, so I wasn't expecting anything this year.
You only see this year, looking short-term as a loss.
OK.
We'll 'likely' see Watson at some point this year but IMHO it wasn't about this year.
beer 30
Footballguy
Yea, it’s what we do.
Here’s the thing with Mayfield, he’s an ok QB. He can have moments of elite talent but they aren’t sustainable. In order for Baker to be the QB everyone wants/thinks he can be, everything has to be right. Any slight deviation and he goes off the rails. Your OL has to perform at better than average 90% of the time, your WR’s have to be exactly where they are supposed to be and your running game has to be able to pick up large chunks of yardage unexpectedly. If you check all those boxes AND Baker stays healthy, you’ll have a great season. Any one of those things dip and you’ll see Baker perform at a less than average level.
Lifelong Browns fan living in SC since 2007 so I’ve seen both teams up close and personal for a while. CAR got a younger QB that has to have near perfect conditions to play well at the NFL level. Anything less than that from his supporting cast and you are looking at a career backup type level of play.
zamboni
Footballguy
To be fair, I don't think any team is going into the season thinking that they should just tank, nor should they. There's no guarantee that the top 5 pick (if it's a QB) won't turn out just like Baker or Darnold. Plus owners have to sell seats and the easiest way for that to fail is if you give the indication you're not looking to win.
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I somewhat agree, but we have recent examples right now of teams doing this. Seattle is doing it right now, Texans are doing it, Miami the previous few years. Cleveland kind of did it when they built their current team. They aren’t deliberately throwing games but they are certainly putting substandard teams out there on purpose.
I certainly get why they would trade for Baker, GM’s and coaches make poor long term moves in last ditch efforts to save their jobs all the time. I don’t think Baker is great but as others said he’s a massive upgrade on Darnold and even mediocre teams can make the playoffs as a wild card so the move is not without upside. But strategically it seems a poor play vs just having another bad season since you were locked into paying Darnold anyway and just gave up picks to trade up for Corral and could have a shot at a young QB on a cheap contract next year. Especially for a team that has made a bunch of poor trades (like for Darnold last year) and is in a poor salary cap position.
zamboni
Footballguy
I would tend to disagree with the bolded. I don't think franchises purposely put out substandard teams - some are just not very good at management/coaching/talent evaluation and some are.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Yes - of course I agree with that, but given the circumstances (Darnold on the books for $18MM) and the fact that Mayfield is only on a one year contract - this signing is a band aid, that likely takes the team out of contention for a Top QB in 2023 draft - and more than likely does not make them a contender in 2022 (maybe they sneak into the playoffs as a WC). While you mention guys like Baker and Darnold you can also end up with a Joe Burrow, Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes with an early first round pick.
I guess we'll see if Seattle makes any more moves, but they're in a similar position to Carolina and didn't pounce on Baker - so maybe they're going into the season thinking that they should just tank. When I say "tank", I fully expect Carroll and the players to try and win each week, but the GM may not be bumming as hard as usual when they do lose.
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-OZ-
Footballguy
Carolina has been the textbook leader of how to not manage a team over the long haul. Their repeated attempts to get a decent QB since Cam left have been interesting.
-OZ-
Footballguy
I’m not sure how much it influences decisions but the panthers have a much better chance to win their division and make the playoffs than Seattle, even if they had traded for Baker.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I guess, based on their respective divisions - but I'm not sure I'd say "much better" considering Tampa Bay is far ahead of Carolina and New Orleans is clearly better overall as well. I mean I think the odds on either team winning their division (with Baker) are pretty long.
Shawnky
Footballguy
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
He significantly increased his chances of getting to the post season just by getting out of the AFCN and the AFC in general.
Brady and A-Rod can't play forever, as the top QBs in the NFC. Mayfield could play well enough to stick and surprise people.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
How is that any different than any 3rd string QB, especially from a weak QB draft class? In a start 1qb league I don't see rostering him, but would rather take a shot on a backup RB.
-OZ-
Footballguy
I’m not as sure about NO being ahead. The chance of TB faltering, imo is much better than the Rams and 49ers both imploding. Not to mention Arizona (mostly because they could falter)
-OZ-
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
He’s on a one year contract - was only talking about this year and specifically about winning the division. I think it’s possible he can get Carolina into the playoffs this year as a WC team.Bracie Smathers said:
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I have him on one team and have to agree with Johnny to some extent. That league has 30 man rosters and I also have Baker so I may keep him there but even in a league that deep I don’t like to carry more than 3 QBs - so I’ll need to decide if I want to hold onto Corrall or drop Mariotta or Wentz instead. I can’t even get a 5th round pick for Mariotta.Shawnky said:
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I’m not very high on Trey Lance so I could see SF faltering.-OZ- said:
-OZ-
Footballguy
That’s fair. But even if they get average play from him they’ll contend. If he just crumbles, Jimmy hasn’t left town yet.
Mayfield is a much more worthy shot than Teddy or Darnold were. He's at least potentially a long term starter, who has had success.-OZ- said:
I don't like the tank idea, and as others have said, its no lock a future high pick rookie is better than Mayfield, in fact, its actually probably unlikely. A lot more Trubisky's, Tua's and D.Jones level players than Burrow/Herbert/Murray.
I think there is a greater than 50% chance Mayfield is a long term starter. Not a top-10 guy, but on the level of a Tannehill/Cousins or if we go back a ways, a Schaub/Flacco type.
Shawnky
Footballguy
As others have said, I guess it depends on your roster size. He's definitely a hold if you have room on your taxi. Darnold will probably never have a starting job again. Baker might not be there next season honestly. That remains to be seen. We haven't seen what Corral is yet, so I don't see the need in dropping him. I do agree he shouldn't be on an active roster, but then again, I try not to roster non-starting QBs on my active unless I have the starter rostered. Again, to each his own.JohnnyU said:
And there are no backup RBs on the wire in any of my leagues at the moment due to the roster size.
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Shawnky
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
In my IDP league I’ll sometimes take a swing at an upside QB3 in the last couple of rounds, but we’re talking about 30 man rosters. So yeah - totally agree.
Some folks don’t carry a 2nd QB in small bench start 1 QB leagues.
-OZ-
Footballguy
Yeah, that’s the rub. I’m only in three leagues now. A SF, where Coral went 2.07 and two 16 team IDP with 55 man rosters. He’s not hitting the waivers in any of those.
greenmountaingoat
Footballguy
14 teamer 1QB / 26 no taxi
Because it's 14, folks hoard QBs so I doubt he's hitting the waivers in my league. He went 2.13.
Best QBs on the waiver in that league are Huntley/Bridgwater/Heinicke
Because it's 14, folks hoard QBs so I doubt he's hitting the waivers in my league. He went 2.13.
Best QBs on the waiver in that league are Huntley/Bridgwater/Heinicke
Right, but if he plays well, its an easily solvable issue, where they just re-sign him. Might even happen during the season if he exceeds expectations. If he doesn't, he's gone and nothing of value was lost. The 1 year deal seems like a good thing to me.
Assuming Mayfield is say, 2020 Mayfield, I don't see him being this crazy expensive player to re-sign. Maybe he gets 25 million, but he's not getting monster money. I think its possible he'd even take a discount if he's happy to play there, after this debacle in Cleveland.
Also, even if Mayfield plays well, will there be a huge market for him, especially when any team could have had him for cheap this year?
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Well except that the Panthers will enter next offseason being $30,247,640 over the cap - so if Baker plays well they probably can't afford him.
nightmare
Footballguy
TVT 0 N S T A
Footballguy
Right, this was the biggest bonehead - keep your job move by the Carolina staff. I don't blame them though. It is almost like owners need to sit down with these guys and say - hey, you really haven't been able to get your guy under center, we will give you 3 more years to right this ship.
That isn't the case in the NFL and Rhule is coaching for job right now; which is the only thing that makes sense about the Baker trade.
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beer 30
Footballguy
Apparently you missed the Hugh Jackson era in Cleveland 2016-2018.zamboni said:
See above and if anyone doesn't place Cleveland front and center of the how not to manage an NFL team then you are either just placing them #1 and everyone else is competing for the second spot or you are woefully ignorant of the last two decades of the Cleveland Browns performance in the league.-OZ- said:
-OZ-
Footballguy
It’s easy to forget the browns call themselves an NFL team.
I’m just referring to their pursuit of a QB (With some hyperbole).
MAC_32
Footballguy
Yes they can. Even if they're stuck with Darnold they can roll over about $20m and have a lot of base salary to bonus or extension games to play. They have six guys with base salaries > $7m totaling $80m and all will be under age 30. If Robby Anderson is a problem then they can move him and trim about $12m too.
Financing is not the issue with this acquisition. It's if this situation humbled Baker enough to sustainably change his approach. I expect him to be hyper focused coming into this season with a massive chip on his shoulder, but that has a shelf life. What will he do this time when it ends?
This is loser speak for managing a franchise. We've seen it time and again.
Very often, it's simple- A player either has it or he doesn't.
The Panthers are like that buddy that dates a few girls because they each have some quality he likes and you're sitting there telling him of the doom of getting caught and how about finding a girl that's everything he wants instead.
I've heard a zillion Panthers speak lately and Darnold being kind, nice, great locker room, team player, attends events and organized them...this is a public relations person not a QB. It's creepy how little they even spoke about his play.
PJs future....they spoke of his potential but how old is he now? Use him or don't and then trade or release him.
Hosts on radio were saying how great a guy Teddy was or how colorful a character Cam was and the Panthers guests were agreeing.
None of this is football.
Start Baker. Add some veteran minimum backup to go with Corral and eat the $. Move on already!
QBs are so expensive. I don't necessarily mean to single out MAC it's just they seem totally fine with the notion they've wasted a truckload of money on QBs and got very little on the field because they've had good guys under center.
Break up with them already.
In some ways they have drafted well and 20-30 mil for the right free agents would have dramatically changed this teams chances with a good QB. The fans need the hope and whatnot that comes from that jump from losing often to a just miss the playoffs type season.
Read or listen, telling ya it's creepy how little they actually discuss the QBs play
MAC_32
Footballguy
I think they should cut Darnold (but not until September) and the Panthers are a poorly run franchise (who will have a bunch of firings in a few months). That's just my read on their perspective of the situation. If they can get another team to eat a few mil of Darnold's salary via trade in Aug they should, which is why I don't think they should cut him now. They don't owe him anything for 2 months.
I think it'll be the norm. The, "one man's trash is another man's treasure" mindsight is deeply ingrained in just about everyone from NFL owners, to your local pawn shop. Especially with QB's drafted in the top-10.
There will always be coaching staffs who are certain, they can harness the talent that got that player picked that high in the first place, unless that player was a complete disaster, like JaMarcus Russell or Matt Leinart. How many chances did Jeff George or Sam Bradford get?
Looking through history Mayfield has a decent chance of reviving his career. Former #1 picks like Jim Plunkett, Vinny Testaverde, Michael Vick, Alex Smith all had pretty successful careers with teams who didn't draft them. That's not including Drew Bledsoe or Carson Palmer, as they were top QBs with their original teams.
Jury is out on guys like Jameis Winston and Jared Goff, but I personally feel like Mayfield is a better QB than either of them.
MAC_32
Footballguy
They have to pay him, but they don't need to keep him around. If they can't find someone to pay a couple mil for him then cut him and assign Corral as backup. They won't do that cause Panthers, but they should.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Baker Mayfield Was Viewed As Childish and Immature By Browns
The Browns continue to bash Baker as he heads out the door. Well they did get a more mature QB now. Watson is so mature he's rated NC-17.
I hope Baker destroys them Week 1.
The Browns continue to bash Baker as he heads out the door. Well they did get a more mature QB now. Watson is so mature he's rated NC-17.
I hope Baker destroys them Week 1.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Lloyd said on local radio that he got most of this info during the season. He didn't say it in this case, but he has said in the past he sits on info for some stories. It's how these guys stay connected. I suspect the halo note was an after the season thing though.
daveR
Footballguy
I hope everyone can see the lack of direct quotes in this story. As well, I hope everyone can see that this wasn't the Browns saying anything "on the way out". In fact, the "story" first appeared a couple months (+) ago. Click bait!
