Ilov80s
Footballguy
Sure but what are the coaches going to say? They have to hype their guys.
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QB C.J. Stroud, HOU (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Faust
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
-OZ-
Footballguy
Upside. Pure upside. Stroud is a reasonable bet to be a mid tier starter but unlikely to be elite. Levis has that elite upside but not likely to hit.
Much bigger arm, better mobility, possibly better interview. Not saying Levis is a better prospect, but if those are what you value, I can see preferring Levis or Richardson. Personally, I have all 3 in the same tier.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Better mobility is the part I challenge. Levis is disaster without a pocket. If there is pressure, he finds it.
Mister CIA
Footballguy
Lipstick on a pig.
Mister CIA
Footballguy
I agree. Stroud falls on the Goff-Stafford spectrum (with better run capability), and I would rate him highly were I a GM who thought they could build a 3 or 4 year Super Bowl run on the back of a rookie QB contract. Donovan McNabb II, maybeUpside. Pure upside. Stroud is a reasonable bet to be a mid tier starter but unlikely to be elite. Levis has that elite upside but not likely to hit.
Levis feels like 80/20 - Bust/Roethlisberger.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Stop it. When Levis was Stroud's age, he was riding the pine.Upside. Pure upside. Stroud is a reasonable bet to be a mid tier starter but unlikely to be elite. Levis has that elite upside but not likely to hit.
massraider
Footballguy
People are hunting some internet clout by talking **** about a good kid.
Brady Quinn is a tool now, like he was in college
I meant mobility as in as a rushing threat.
As far as mobility as in pocket movement, I'd honestly say both Levis and Stroud are iffy. That's the part where I think Young really separates from the pack. Richardson is pretty good there as well, though that is mostly because he can outrun anybody chasing him more than anything else.
ETA: Both Levis and Stroud are better at pocket movement than Hooker at least, who is the guy who I'd call a disaster if there is pressure.
massraider
Footballguy
He is completely surprised when a paas rusher appears. Like he wasn't aware of their existence
Ilov80s
Footballguy
That is fair. Goff and Stafford have made Pro Bowls and Super Bowls. However, Levis isn't worthy of watching Ben highlights on Youtube.
Mister CIA
Footballguy
The ridiculousness is getting ridiculous.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Levis was sacked on like 1/3 of the times he was pressured, worst of this group. And he's the oldest. Stroud didn't run much but against Northwestern when there were 60+ mph winds, he ran an RPO offense pretty well, ran for 78 yards. Against Georgia, he threw off the run and ran for yards consistently.
I agree, I don't see it with Hooker. I bet he falls to the 4th.
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As much as certain parts of his tape, and age/injury situation may call for it, I'd be shocked if Hooker fell out of round 2 at this point. But yeah, I really don't get it with him at all, hell I like McKee more than him even.
Its possible Stroud is more mobile than I'm giving him credit for, after all Ohio State kept Justin Fields in the pocket too, and while Stroud is obviously nowhere near that mobile, he could be used in that manner more in the pros.
A-F prospect scale, I've had Stroud as a B all along. I think Levis and Richardson have higher ceilings, but a lot more work to do to get there, especially Levis. Really comes down to how much a GM/HC believe in their developmental process. But to me, that is why I've never gotten Stroud to Carolina, just doesn't seem right to trade up to #1 giving up 2 1sts and a pro bowl caliber WR, for a lower ceiling guy. Young always made sense, and honestly Richardson even makes more sense (maybe sitting behind Dalton for a little) than Stroud to me, though it feels less likely.
massraider
Footballguy
Like a man having dinner with his family, and Bigfoot smashes through a door.
That's how surprised he is.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
That’s occurred to me a few times. Like every time I read some hot nonsense about Stroud falling to 11.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Sure, but your QB1 is 2’9”, 87 LBs. Rumor has it he was in jeopardy of being stepped on & crushed by Mina Kimes immediately after that photo was taken of them.
-OZ-
Footballguy
I’d expect someone to jump over 7 if Stroud falls past Indy.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
When asked what quarterbacks he looks up to he did mention Deshaun Watson for some reason. Not the end of the world but also probably was not the most thought out answer for a guy seeking a job.
Birdie048
Footballguy
Bolded --> Is it possible Fields/Stroud are more products of the OSU Coaching to "limit" the free range running QB?
-to prevent injury to QB
- running QB is not the OC plans/strength
- to prevent loss of Offense game plan
- simple to "control" things
Inquiring minds want to know if it was more OSU staff vs QB decisions to not run when opportunity presented?
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I believe so. Why run when you have JSN, Harrison, Wilson, Olave, McLaurin, etc ?
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I’m seeing Hooker as a media propped up QB like basically all of last years class.
Skipdog77
Footballguy
Are the S2 scores all officially ever released somewhere, or is it up to the players to release them? I know Young's and Levis' were reported, but can see why Stroud wouldn't release his if this is accurate. Seems crazy to me that a player at his success level in college would score an 18.
Oh, and bump Jake Haener.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
IMO the Peach Bowl answered any remaining questions about Stroud’s mobility & willingness to use his legs.
It’s pretty apparent that OSU didn’t want him to run.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
No judgement. This is a judgement free zone.
massraider
Footballguy
The entire history of success of this test is that Brock Purdy did well on it, and he looked good for half a season. It may well prove to be worth something, check back in 2035.
Ryan Clark, RGIII spar on Twitter with Brady Quinn over C.J. Stroud report
After Fox Sports' Brady Quinn reported C.J. Stroud ghosted on the Manning Passing Academy, ESPN's Ryan Clark and RGII refuted the claim.
awfulannouncing.com
Can you imagine: You have been working to be a pro QB, there are millions you can never make back with every draft slot you might fall, and Brady freaking Quinn is questioning whether you behave like a franchise QB because he "heard" you ghosted a football camp run by the Mannings, and how dare you do this to the Mannings?
It wasn't true, and Stroud hadn't committed, and wound up spending the time working out with teammates . This is a negative story on about Stroud. Absolutely crazy.
Moral of the story, question negative narratives that "appear" before the draft.
And don't follow Dov Kleinman.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Every year people fall for this bull****.
Every year
Remarkable.
massraider
Footballguy
Also, big fan of:
Stround scouting report: Oh sure he has pinpoint accuracy, but what can he do when the play breaks down? Might be a deal-breaker.
Anthony Richardson scouting report: Oh sure he makes magic when a play breaks down, but where's the pinpoint accuracy? Might be a deal-breaker.
Stround scouting report: Oh sure he has pinpoint accuracy, but what can he do when the play breaks down? Might be a deal-breaker.
Anthony Richardson scouting report: Oh sure he makes magic when a play breaks down, but where's the pinpoint accuracy? Might be a deal-breaker.
Hafuxd002020
Footballguy
46 and 18 aren't good scores. These are impactful, right? How much will these scores affect Hooker and Stroud?
LawFitz
Footballguy
Stroud's fall seems linked to the S2, right or wrong...
www.golongtd.com
Part 3, QB: Bryce Young has the 'S2' advantage
Today, NFL teams value the "S2" test. Multiple sources tell Bob McGinn that Young scored 98%, while C.J. Stroud scored 18%. What does this all mean? The draft series continues...
www.golongtd.com
Birdie048
Footballguy
Found this ... S2 Cognitive Test
It appears the Panthers GM Fritter's on board: "it is just another tool we use, something we believe in though"
Example: "the test seeks to find out how many objects an athlete can keep track of at the same time. In another, there are 22 figures on the screen and the athlete must locate a specific one as quickly as possible. The object might be a red triangle embedded in other shapes that are also red."
It appears the Panthers GM Fritter's on board: "it is just another tool we use, something we believe in though"
Example: "the test seeks to find out how many objects an athlete can keep track of at the same time. In another, there are 22 figures on the screen and the athlete must locate a specific one as quickly as possible. The object might be a red triangle embedded in other shapes that are also red."
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
“The S2 people will say, ‘Hey, guys that graded high on this test don’t always play well,’” one club executive said, “’But, we’ve never had somebody grade low and play well.’Stroud's fall seems linked to the S2, right or wrong...
Part 3, QB: Bryce Young has the 'S2' advantage
Today, NFL teams value the "S2" test. Multiple sources tell Bob McGinn that Young scored 98%, while C.J. Stroud scored 18%. What does this all mean? The draft series continues...
That’s hard-hitting stuff right there.
I guess they mean “other than his entire HS & college career?”
Here’s my thought on this: Stroud has more than proved his football acumen, quick decision-making, and twitch reflexes on the field.
Going by this test to knock him from 1.01 to apparently off some teams draft boards seems ludicrous.
If I’m drafting a dude to play Madden, Young absolutely aced this test.
If I’m drafting a dude to be a franchise QB, gimme the comparable arm at 6’3”, 218.
I know Brock Purdy bumped the stock price for this company a lot, but if this test is what is tanking Stroud’s draft stock, folks are putting way too much into it.
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TartanLion
Footballguy
REPORT: “Stroud scored 18,” an #NFL executive said: “That is like red alert, red alert, you can’t take a guy like that. That is why I have Stroud as a bust. That in conjunction with the fact, name one Ohio State quarterback that’s ever done it in the league.”
When another executive was informed that Stroud scored extremely low, he said that it confirmed what he had seen on tape, per and via @BobMcGinn:
“That was my concern with him,” the scout said. “His personality is just sort of calm and mellow and laidback, and that’s the way he plays. You look at how Bryce Young plays and how Stroud plays, I don’t see how anyone can look at those two play football and you’d want that guy (Stroud) over Young. Bryce’s mind is so quick and he processes so fast. Whereas with Stroud, everything is much, much more programmed.”
One NFC executive described the S2 as a “great test.” Said an AFC executive: “For quarterbacks, it’s been pretty good,” another executive said S2 made inroads early in its existence testing hitters for major league baseball clubs.
“Then they started doing it in football,” the executive said. “If you get a high score as a quarterback it’s not saying you’re going to be a great player. But if you get a low score, it’s 100% — none of the quarterbacks that got a low score became good players.
When another executive was informed that Stroud scored extremely low, he said that it confirmed what he had seen on tape, per and via @BobMcGinn:
“That was my concern with him,” the scout said. “His personality is just sort of calm and mellow and laidback, and that’s the way he plays. You look at how Bryce Young plays and how Stroud plays, I don’t see how anyone can look at those two play football and you’d want that guy (Stroud) over Young. Bryce’s mind is so quick and he processes so fast. Whereas with Stroud, everything is much, much more programmed.”
One NFC executive described the S2 as a “great test.” Said an AFC executive: “For quarterbacks, it’s been pretty good,” another executive said S2 made inroads early in its existence testing hitters for major league baseball clubs.
“Then they started doing it in football,” the executive said. “If you get a high score as a quarterback it’s not saying you’re going to be a great player. But if you get a low score, it’s 100% — none of the quarterbacks that got a low score became good players.
massraider
Footballguy
What year was it when “processing speed” became the “think outside the box” of the NFL draft?
Last couple of years for sure, this is very new.
Last couple of years for sure, this is very new.
TartanLion
Footballguy
‘Ability to operate out of structure’ is another one I feel like I have heard so much, only in the last few years. But perhaps I just wasn’t paying as much attention before that, and that’s the real reason
Largent
Footballguy
If CJ is not gone by 5, Seattle would be more than happy to roll out the carpet. He's a total gamer, loves football, has risen above a dismal childhood with his dad serving 30yrs since he was in grade 8.....and now he's got the football world slagging him for some video game test.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
It is surely a step up from that dumb wonderlic, but there is not enough data for me to even consider that yet. How long has this been around? 3-4 years?
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Interesting for sure. Tough tojudge without the data but also a bunch of anonymous people holds little weight with me.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
He has played liked one as well. Has nobody watched him actually play?
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Right. I will take my chances on a QB with prototypical size, above average athleticism, good arm, excellent accuracy, elite college production and his one flaw being he scored poorly on this new test.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Eric Galko can't be serious. How does he think test scores work?
Largent
Footballguy
https://www.nfl.com/news/2023-nfl-draft-pro-execs-scouts-coaches-rank-and-evaluate-the-qb-class
The Buckeyes lost just four of Stroud’s 25 starts, though two of those defeats came against rival Michigan. Stroud took the S2 Cognition test multiple times and posted low scores, but coaches who have watched the tape and put Stroud on the board were impressed with his processing ability. He has displayed toughness, starting all 12 games in 2021 despite separating the AC joint in his right (throwing) shoulder in the season opener. And as pure passers go, Stroud is one of the best in this class.
“You saw in the Georgia game he’s probably more athletic than people gave him credit for,” another NFC coordinator said. “Good arm talent. I think he’s good mechanically. And demeanor-wise, he’s a lot more likeable than I thought he was going to be. You watch his game-day demeanor -- he seems real standoffish, no personality. And he was like the exact opposite in person. Cool as hell, great communication skills, good recall. He can process. Ball kind of comes easy to him.”
The Buckeyes lost just four of Stroud’s 25 starts, though two of those defeats came against rival Michigan. Stroud took the S2 Cognition test multiple times and posted low scores, but coaches who have watched the tape and put Stroud on the board were impressed with his processing ability. He has displayed toughness, starting all 12 games in 2021 despite separating the AC joint in his right (throwing) shoulder in the season opener. And as pure passers go, Stroud is one of the best in this class.
“You saw in the Georgia game he’s probably more athletic than people gave him credit for,” another NFC coordinator said. “Good arm talent. I think he’s good mechanically. And demeanor-wise, he’s a lot more likeable than I thought he was going to be. You watch his game-day demeanor -- he seems real standoffish, no personality. And he was like the exact opposite in person. Cool as hell, great communication skills, good recall. He can process. Ball kind of comes easy to him.”
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I keep saying…
