QB Caleb Williams, CHI (1 Viewer)

[Joe Bryant]

The play call was a QB draw, right?

Yes, at least that's what Anderson reported.

 

[Stoneworker]

The play call was a QB draw, right?

Yes, at least that's what Anderson reported.

According to the Chicago Daily Herald, the QB draw was the original play called at the 0:32 mark after the sack and before Williams audibled.

Williams later explained that the original play call with 32 seconds left was a quarterback draw. Williams was going to keep the football and run right with the right tackle to try and set up a closer field goal from the right hash mark.

By the time the Bears were set at the line of scrimmage there was about 13 seconds on the clock. When Williams saw the clock winding down, he didn’t think the Bears would have enough time to run two plays. He changed the play call and launched a pass intended for Odunze in the end zone.

Time’s up: Bears bungle final seconds of loss to Lions

DETROIT – Detroit Lions edge rusher Za’Darius Smith ran in unblocked and sacked Bears quarterback Caleb Williams. The play ended with 32 seconds on the clock. What ensued was chaos. The result was...

www.dailyherald.com

 

[Stoneworker]

Actually, from Eberflus' comments it appears that QB draw was indeed called twice (not defending the play call so don't shoot me)

“I do believe that you just re-rack the play, get it inbounds and call timeout and that’s why we held it [the timeout]

 

[Chaka]

A: "How does one learn to not make mistakes?"
B: "From wisdom."
A: "How does one gain wisdom?"
B: By making mistakes."

That was a learning moment for Williams, he made a bad decision by not managing the clock better.

That should not have been a learning moment for Eberflus.

Eberflus was supposed to know he was going to change the play and then run around for five seconds before chucking it deep?

Audible options are part of play calling. They have specific language when QBs aren't supposed to audible.

They sent in a play and gave Williams the option to audible if he saw a certain look. If they didn't want him to do that they should have taken that option away when they called the play.

Williams made several rookie mistakes in that sequence. No one is forgiving that, but it's a lot more understandable when it's a rookie QB making those mistakes.

It was on the coaches to have stopped the clock (preferably after the sack) but at the very least when they saw Williams start to audible.

The fact they didn't stop the clock in that moment suggests they saw the same thing Williams did and condoned the audible.

Not to mention the fact that the entire offense was so poorly coached they didn't know where to lineup in the event there was an audible. That #### should be on rote and they should have sprinted to the proper alignment once Williams audibled. Instead he had to start directing traffic. No, that was a failure of coaching all around.

Williams was poorly coached, the offense was poorly coached and the coaching staff was poorly coached.

 

[Chaka]

No consideration that Williams was not going off script to audible? QBs are coached to make the audible when they see certain looks, right? The play called most likely included an audible option. If Williams called an audible against an express mandate to not audible, then I'm on board with putting most of the blame on him. My contention is at the very latest the sideline should have called the TO as soon as Williams started calling the audible (they should have called it after the sack but that's another issue). If they didn't call the TO, they probably saw the same look and approved of the audible.

Williams didn't audible because of a "certain look." He mistakenly believed the Bears didn't have any timeouts remaining and therefore couldn't run two plays in 13 seconds. So he changed to the home run ball. Sound logic, but in the heat of the moment he was obviously wrong about the situation. It's all in his postgame comments.

Did someone come out and say that was the case?

Terrible in Williams if that's the case, again even worse in the coaching staff for not shutting it down while Williams was audibling.

There is no scenario where Williams's mistakes were more egregious than the coaching staff's mistakes.

 

[Chaka]

So you don't just give a rookie QB a chance to simply hike the ball and run a play that has already been called? Huh. I would have thought a #1 overall draft choice might be capable of that

We know Caleb tends to go off script, if you watched him in college or read the scouting reports that much is clear. As the coach, your job is to rein that in when needed.

Off script during plays for sure, it's a big issue with him. But nothing to suggest he would just start calling his own plays out of the blue.

 

[Chaka]

No consideration that Williams was not going off script to audible? QBs are coached to make the audible when they see certain looks, right? The play called most likely included an audible option. If Williams called an audible against an express mandate to not audible, then I'm on board with putting most of the blame on him. My contention is at the very latest the sideline should have called the TO as soon as Williams started calling the audible (they should have called it after the sack but that's another issue). If they didn't call the TO, they probably saw the same look and approved of the audible.

Williams didn't audible because of a "certain look." He mistakenly believed the Bears didn't have any timeouts remaining and therefore couldn't run two plays in 13 seconds. So he changed to the home run ball. Sound logic, but in the heat of the moment he was obviously wrong about the situation. It's all in his postgame comments.

Correct. When he started to audible at :12, Flus should have called a TO.

It wasn't just making the audible. It was the fact that Williams' d*cked around for nearly 7 seconds before snapping the ball, therefore making it the last play of the game. It didn't have to be

He was directing traffic, wasn't he? Because, apparently the offense wasn't coached well enough to know where to be if Williams called the audible.

Again, another opportunity for the coaches call the TO and settle down the offense.

It changes what they can do going forward but there are options for that scenario too.

 

[Stoneworker]

He was directing traffic, wasn't he?

Clearly you haven't watched the replay. Because there was virtually no movement from anyone from 15 seconds down to 6.

Even after the long throw, if it was snapped in the 8-10 second range there would still have been time for a FG attempt

 

[Chaka]

This won't be popular as it doesn't fit the narrative but Josina Anderson with interesting reporting today.

Insider's sources indicate play before final snap doomed Eberflus - Pro Football Post

NFL insider Josina Anderson made three interesting points after speaking to sources in the wake of the Chicago Bears firing Matt Eberflus on Friday morning.

profootballpost.com

• Anderson said the head coach’s unpopular postgame comments following Thursday’s 23-20 loss at Detroit were made in part to protect Caleb Williams, who was familiar with the no-huddle play and knew he needed to snap the ball prior to the game clock reaching 15 seconds. Instead, with one timeout, the quarterback snapped the ball with five seconds and sailed an incompletion that hit the turf with zeroes on the clock.
• She added that after the team dissected the game on Friday morning, the film confirmed that the Bears shouldn’t have put Williams in that position. Errors, penalties and missed assignments – particularly on the next-to-last snap – doomed Chicago long before the final 32 seconds. On the play before, right tackle Larry Borom allowed Za’Darius Smith a free shot at the quarterback, Anderson said, on a play designed to be a quarterback draw; Borom had replaced an injured Darnell Wright in the third quarter.
• Interim head coach Thomas Brown was tapped to preserve as much continuity as possible around Williams and the Chicago offense. Brown replaced offensive coordinator Shane Waldron, fired by Eberflus on Nov. 12. The staff remains under evaluation, Anderson said.

Why would that be unpopular? It's obvious Williams made several mistakes on that last play. No one is giving that a free pass. But a good coach recognizes things are going sideways as soon as they realize the play wasn't going to go off at 15 seconds. They adapt.

Heck if Eberflus calls that TO, he probably still has a job today and most all of the conversation today would be about Williams's mistakes in that sequence.

But he left his rookie QB at sea and it, deservedly cost him his job.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Why would that be unpopular?

Because it shows there's more to the story than simply "Eberflus is an idiot and this is all on him".

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

This won't be popular as it doesn't fit the narrative but Josina Anderson with interesting reporting today.

Insider's sources indicate play before final snap doomed Eberflus - Pro Football Post

NFL insider Josina Anderson made three interesting points after speaking to sources in the wake of the Chicago Bears firing Matt Eberflus on Friday morning.

profootballpost.com

• Anderson said the head coach’s unpopular postgame comments following Thursday’s 23-20 loss at Detroit were made in part to protect Caleb Williams, who was familiar with the no-huddle play and knew he needed to snap the ball prior to the game clock reaching 15 seconds. Instead, with one timeout, the quarterback snapped the ball with five seconds and sailed an incompletion that hit the turf with zeroes on the clock.
• She added that after the team dissected the game on Friday morning, the film confirmed that the Bears shouldn’t have put Williams in that position. Errors, penalties and missed assignments – particularly on the next-to-last snap – doomed Chicago long before the final 32 seconds. On the play before, right tackle Larry Borom allowed Za’Darius Smith a free shot at the quarterback, Anderson said, on a play designed to be a quarterback draw; Borom had replaced an injured Darnell Wright in the third quarter.
• Interim head coach Thomas Brown was tapped to preserve as much continuity as possible around Williams and the Chicago offense. Brown replaced offensive coordinator Shane Waldron, fired by Eberflus on Nov. 12. The staff remains under evaluation, Anderson said.

Unpopular? Not sure I follow. The Bears fans I know acknowledge the mistakes that Caleb made. Heck, he acknowledged them himself.
What this tells me is that the coaching staff continued to be completely tone deaf to what was going on in-game. A backup tackle was in on both the 2nd to last and last plays. Borom (the backup tackle) completely whiffed on the chip block he needed to make to set up the play and led to an immediate sack of Williams. Then, in complete tone deaf fashion, the staff decided to call the exact same play. It has happened over and over and over again during the Flus era and has transcended coordinators and players. Then, after the chaos of the 2nd to last play, Flus just decided to let a rookie QB run out 17 seconds before getting to the line of scrimmage. There were plenty of opportunities for Flus to regain control of HIS TEAM in that last drive and he chose not to do so.

 

[Chaka]

Why would that be unpopular?

Because it shows there's more to the story than simply "Eberflus is an idiot and this is all on him".

Has anyone really said that?

 

[Joe Bryant]

There were plenty of opportunities for Flus to regain control of HIS TEAM in that last drive and he chose not to do so.

That's what I'm saying. Anderson's reporting was that Eberflus was covering for Williams during part of the post-game presser. It's a much more popular narrative to make this all on Eberflus.

Doesn't really matter as it's done now.

I mostly thought Anderson's reporting was an interesting insight I wasn't seeing in other places. So thought it might be of interest.

Will be very interesting to see how Williams moves forward here.

 

[Chaka]

There were plenty of opportunities for Flus to regain control of HIS TEAM in that last drive and he chose not to do so.

That's what I'm saying. Anderson's reporting was that Eberflus was covering for Williams during part of the post-game presser. It's a much more popular narrative to make this all on Eberflus.

Doesn't really matter as it's done now.

I mostly thought Anderson's reporting was an interesting insight I wasn't seeing in other places. So thought it might be of interest.

Will be very interesting to see how Williams moves forward here.

Covering for him how? Williams let the play clock hit 15 seconds, that's a big mistake. And when that mistake happened what did Eberflus do?

 

[Joe Bryant]

There were plenty of opportunities for Flus to regain control of HIS TEAM in that last drive and he chose not to do so.

That's what I'm saying. Anderson's reporting was that Eberflus was covering for Williams during part of the post-game presser. It's a much more popular narrative to make this all on Eberflus.

Doesn't really matter as it's done now.

I mostly thought Anderson's reporting was an interesting insight I wasn't seeing in other places. So thought it might be of interest.

Will be very interesting to see how Williams moves forward here.

Covering for him how? Williams let the play clock hit 15 seconds, that's a big mistake. And when that mistake happened what did Eberflus do?

I'm relaying what Anderson reported. https://profootballpost.com/4996/in...e-final-snap-doomed-eberflus/#google_vignette

• Anderson said the head coach’s unpopular postgame comments following Thursday’s 23-20 loss at Detroit were made in part to protect Caleb Williams, who was familiar with the no-huddle play and knew he needed to snap the ball prior to the game clock reaching 15 seconds. Instead, with one timeout, the quarterback snapped the ball with five seconds and sailed an incompletion that hit the turf with zeroes on the clock.

She could have it wrong here. I just thought it was interesting and something I hadn't heard.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Why would that be unpopular?

Because it shows there's more to the story than simply "Eberflus is an idiot and this is all on him".

Also very possible - wouldn’t be remotely surprising - if Eberflus leaked this himself once the reaction was so strongly anti-Eberflus.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

If managing the crisis points like the end of that game aren't the responsibility of the head coach, what are they responsible for?

When you see that the team is in disarray with the 15 or so seconds left, you call time out. It should be muscle memory like reflex. A million armchair coaches that have watched football their whole lives - that know that's just what you do in that situation - were screaming "call time out!" at their televisions. And they were right.

Everflustered showed that he just isn't up to the job of head coaching. If it wasn't obvious before yesterday, it was after.

 

[Stoneworker]

If managing the crisis points like the end of that game aren't the responsibility of the head coach, what are they responsible for?

When you see that the team is in disarray with the 15 or so seconds left, you call time out. It should be muscle memory like reflex. A million armchair coaches that have watched football their whole lives - that know that's just what you do in that situation - were screaming "call time out!" at their televisions. And they were right.

Everflustered showed that he just isn't up to the job of head coaching. If it wasn't obvious before yesterday, it was after.

Nothing was remotely in disarray until Williams himself changed the play....at 13 seconds.

 

[Da Guru]

I was at the game and I was looking directly at the clock thinking a TO would be called..then I looked at the field and Williams had no sense of urgency, the clock was winding down and I said to my wife this is it..the last play. When it fell incomplete most in the stands where looking around not sure the game was over and wondering what just happened.

The HC should have called a TO when Williams was dawdling but Williams has been in those situations in college, all QBs have to know the basics on time when under two minutes, and more important under one minute. The clock is in their eyesight. Williams just had a brain freeze.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

After the sack it's 3rd and 26 with 30 seconds remaining , you call time out to get the right play to try and get the 5-ish yards you need to get in FG range. Assuming that play is successful then you have enough time to get the FG team on the field for the attempt.

One can say that a QB should have the awareness on the field and that's mostly true. But it's the job of the HC to do things in order of priority. At the NFL level it should be second nature. That didn't happen.

 

[Stoneworker]

After the sack it's 3rd and 26 with 30 seconds remaining , you call time out to get the right play to try and get the 5-ish yards you need to get in FG range. Assuming that play is successful then you have enough time to get the FG team on the field for the attempt.

One can say that a QB should have the awareness on the field and that's mostly true. But it's the job of the HC to do things in order of priority. At the NFL level it should be second nature. That didn't happen.

There is no universally correct "priority" in that situation. A FG unit rushing onto the field with the clock running out can botch their execution just as easily as the Bears botched their last offensive play.

Eberflus felt he had the right play called and there was more than enough time at 32 seconds to execute it. Obviously whether the play call was a good one can be debated all day but has nothing to do with time management

 

[Chaka]

There were plenty of opportunities for Flus to regain control of HIS TEAM in that last drive and he chose not to do so.

That's what I'm saying. Anderson's reporting was that Eberflus was covering for Williams during part of the post-game presser. It's a much more popular narrative to make this all on Eberflus.

Doesn't really matter as it's done now.

I mostly thought Anderson's reporting was an interesting insight I wasn't seeing in other places. So thought it might be of interest.

Will be very interesting to see how Williams moves forward here.

Covering for him how? Williams let the play clock hit 15 seconds, that's a big mistake. And when that mistake happened what did Eberflus do?

I'm relaying what Anderson reported. https://profootballpost.com/4996/in...e-final-snap-doomed-eberflus/#google_vignette

• Anderson said the head coach’s unpopular postgame comments following Thursday’s 23-20 loss at Detroit were made in part to protect Caleb Williams, who was familiar with the no-huddle play and knew he needed to snap the ball prior to the game clock reaching 15 seconds. Instead, with one timeout, the quarterback snapped the ball with five seconds and sailed an incompletion that hit the turf with zeroes on the clock.

She could have it wrong here. I just thought it was interesting and something I hadn't heard.

I read that. I don't see how it's some kind of indictment of Williams.

Williams made multiple mistakes in this sequence. No one is arguing against that.

Eberflus either failed to recognize Williams was trying to do too much or, he saw it and failed to act. Those are also terrible mistakes, far worse relative to his station and responsibilities IMO.

And Anderson still got her information from somewhere. Nice protection.

 

[Chaka]

And let's be real, what exactly was Williams being protected from? Has he ever not shown accountability? Is he some kind of shrinking violet?

That angle seems like a non-story

 

[Andy Dufresne]

After the sack it's 3rd and 26 with 30 seconds remaining , you call time out to get the right play to try and get the 5-ish yards you need to get in FG range. Assuming that play is successful then you have enough time to get the FG team on the field for the attempt.

One can say that a QB should have the awareness on the field and that's mostly true. But it's the job of the HC to do things in order of priority. At the NFL level it should be second nature. That didn't happen.

There is no universally correct "priority" in that situation. A FG unit rushing onto the field with the clock running out can botch their execution just as easily as the Bears botched their last offensive play.

Eberflus felt he had the right play called and there was more than enough time at 32 seconds to execute it. Obviously whether the play call was a good one can be debated all day but has nothing to do with time management

But it wasn't at 32 seconds - that's the time at which the sack occurred. By the time the players sorted themselves out and CW gets off the ground there's 25. You have to know that it's going to take around 10 seconds to get the guys that ran downfield back to the line of scrimmage and aligned - which is about what happened. What's weird is that the WRs are still monkeying around as they're trying to snap the ball. It's there that you have to know it's a cluster fudge and a TO has to be called.

I think it's pretty SOP to call a TO after a sack with that little time remaining.

All this is kind of funny that we're doing Zapruder film style analysis on this. The upshot is that Eberflus was a dead man walking anyway. This just moved to the execution date.

 

[Stoneworker]

All this is kind of funny that we're doing Zapruder film style analysis on this. The upshot is that Eberflus was a dead man walking anyway. This just moved to the execution date.

Lol. Totally agree with this. Fun discussion, though. Thanks, everyone. Carry on.

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

"We like the play that we had," Eberflus said." We were hoping that [Williams] was going to call it — get the ball snapped. And then we would have called time out right there.“ - Eberflus

This is protecting Caleb? If so, I’d hate to see what throwing him under the bus sounds like.

Oh yeah, we don’t have to wonder, Flus already did that earlier in the season.

This guy is a slug. He’s not head coach material.

 

[Sunday Gravy]

Why would that be unpopular?

Because it shows there's more to the story than simply "Eberflus is an idiot and this is all on him".

He’s the one that got canned, but the multi-millionaire super star QB just goes back to the facility and paints his nails.

When you resort to supeficial attacks like this everything else you say gets devalued. If you can’t recognize Caleb’s talent and growth, I have a hard time believing you’re being serious.

FWIW, Eberflus shouldn’t have gotten a third season. That’s on Poles and I have almost nothing else bad to say about Poles.

Don't tell people you have a hard time believing they're serious and then say you have nothing else bad to say about Poles. You're happy with the o line play this season? You're happy with the pass rush this season? Both of those were very big issues going into last off-season, when we had by far the most cap space in the league. And you really can't quantify how bad the decision to keep Eberflus was. Like highest level of incompetence bad.

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

Why would that be unpopular?

Because it shows there's more to the story than simply "Eberflus is an idiot and this is all on him".

He’s the one that got canned, but the multi-millionaire super star QB just goes back to the facility and paints his nails.

When you resort to supeficial attacks like this everything else you say gets devalued. If you can’t recognize Caleb’s talent and growth, I have a hard time believing you’re being serious.

FWIW, Eberflus shouldn’t have gotten a third season. That’s on Poles and I have almost nothing else bad to say about Poles.

Don't tell people you have a hard time believing they're serious and then say you have nothing else bad to say about Poles. You're happy with the o line play this season? You're happy with the pass rush this season? Both of those were very big issues going into last off-season, when we had by far the most cap space in the league. And you really can't quantify how bad the decision to keep Eberflus was. Like highest level of incompetence bad.

I mean no on the line play, but at the same time this team and roster were a complete pile of **** circling the drain for a long time. Is it where I wish it would be? No, but if I’m fair I can also look at this roster and say it’s gotten progressively better every year since Poles has come aboard.

Good offensive linemen don’t exactly grow on trees and Alt was gone when they took Odunze. I like Odunze, a lot, but if I had a do-over I wish they could trade back and find a way to have Sweat or Verse instead. Still, a lot of teams missed on those guys and I don’t hate the pick. I believe Odunze is a generational talent and will be needed next season if Allen goes back to LA. Holes in the line can be covered up by scheme and coaching and I hope they keep losing so they can address obvious areas of need next season.

Pass rush? I believe they have the talent but not the scheme. That’s on Eberflus.

I do like the direction the team is headed. Maybe I’m overly optimistic? The next decision Poles makes, who will be the HC, will likely make or break his career and this franchise.

 

[travdogg]

If managing the crisis points like the end of that game aren't the responsibility of the head coach, what are they responsible for?

When you see that the team is in disarray with the 15 or so seconds left, you call time out. It should be muscle memory like reflex. A million armchair coaches that have watched football their whole lives - that know that's just what you do in that situation - were screaming "call time out!" at their televisions. And they were right.

Everflustered showed that he just isn't up to the job of head coaching. If it wasn't obvious before yesterday, it was after.

Exactly. Eberflus did some things well, I'm sure he'll have no problems finding a DC job this offseason (just like Saleh) but HC is just too much for him. In the end that's probably a best case for both Eberflus and Williams.

 

[Ray_T]

Bears are an unserious organization. Kid did everything to get them back in the game only for the worst clock mgmt since the great storm of whenever.

He botched that final play as much as the coach did.

Not only should he have rushed the team to the line quicker, called for the snap earlier, but he had 2 wide open receivers 10 yards down the field, that would have gotten them into FG range with time to take the time out.... yet he decides to bomb it into coverage which would take up even more of that precious clock.

Apparently he waited ~15 seconds for the play call to be delivered on that last play, realized they weren't going to have time to call a time out, audibled and then got the play off. You don't put that kind of clock management decisions on your rookie QB in that situation. Like the other 8 million people watching the game live, I was yelling at the TV for them to call a time out to regain some composure. At the very worst, you have 30 seconds to run 2-3 plays into the endzone or out of bounds so that you can kick the FG. Hate on the rookie all you want, but this wasn't on him.

its everyones fault.

its a rookie mistake, and you can blame the coach too. its a hard lesson, but as a fan I'd rather they learned this lesson now when the team isnt competitive than next year or the year after when they are. But the lesson did still need to be learned. I suppose you could argue that based on time left you shouldnt have to stress to hurry the F Up but you would be surprised how when you are in that situation time seems to tick faster than when you are not.

either way I dont deny the situation was mishandled. but when you have a rookie, sometimes the best thing you can do is let him make his mistakes and learn from them. For some..... that experience will do more for him than any amount of coaching. My sister is that way. you can tell her not to do it and why she shouldnt...... but until she does it and gets burned, it wont really hit home. So failure is really the only teacher for someone like that. I'm not saying hes that way (as I dont know him) but some people are and for those people the mistakes come early but if they learn from each mistake, they will become a good player pretty quick.

in the end, I'd say dont panic, the kid is a rookie, but I'd like to see him get a real good coach with an offensive mind who knows how to work with a young QB. I'm not sure the Bears will give him what he needs, but thats probably what he needs the most.

 

[Joe Bryant]

There were plenty of opportunities for Flus to regain control of HIS TEAM in that last drive and he chose not to do so.

That's what I'm saying. Anderson's reporting was that Eberflus was covering for Williams during part of the post-game presser. It's a much more popular narrative to make this all on Eberflus.

Doesn't really matter as it's done now.

I mostly thought Anderson's reporting was an interesting insight I wasn't seeing in other places. So thought it might be of interest.

Will be very interesting to see how Williams moves forward here.

Covering for him how? Williams let the play clock hit 15 seconds, that's a big mistake. And when that mistake happened what did Eberflus do?

I'm relaying what Anderson reported. https://profootballpost.com/4996/in...e-final-snap-doomed-eberflus/#google_vignette

• Anderson said the head coach’s unpopular postgame comments following Thursday’s 23-20 loss at Detroit were made in part to protect Caleb Williams, who was familiar with the no-huddle play and knew he needed to snap the ball prior to the game clock reaching 15 seconds. Instead, with one timeout, the quarterback snapped the ball with five seconds and sailed an incompletion that hit the turf with zeroes on the clock.

She could have it wrong here. I just thought it was interesting and something I hadn't heard.

I read that. I don't see how it's some kind of indictment of Williams.

Williams made multiple mistakes in this sequence. No one is arguing against that.

Eberflus either failed to recognize Williams was trying to do too much or, he saw it and failed to act. Those are also terrible mistakes, far worse relative to his station and responsibilities IMO.

And Anderson still got her information from somewhere. Nice protection.

I don't think anyone's looking to make "an indictment" of Williams.

As I said above. I mostly thought Anderson's reporting was an interesting insight I wasn't seeing in other places. So thought it might be of interest here.

Anderson's report did maybe help explain Eberflus' odd answers at the presser. But as again, water under the bridge.

Will be very interesting to see how Williams moves forward here.

 

[TampaMike19]

Coaches manage the team and strategies. Quarterback executes the plays and said strategies.

Coach had no strategy for that situation therefore qb could not execute said strategy in that situation.

also unsure if Caleb has free reign to call timeouts like that but it’s probably 90-10 eberflus to Caleb fault ratio.

Also eberflus track record is pretty bad with gaffes so this shouldn’t surprise anyone

 

[massraider]

And let's be real, what exactly was Williams being protected from? Has he ever not shown accountability? Is he some kind of shrinking violet?

That angle seems like a non-story

Completely.

What's the angle here? This eff up wasn't 100% totally and completely Eberflus' fault? I mean, OK.

Sometimes a narrative is simply the truth.

 

[Stoneworker]

And let's be real, what exactly was Williams being protected from? Has he ever not shown accountability? Is he some kind of shrinking violet?

That angle seems like a non-story

Completely.

What's the angle here? This eff up wasn't 100% totally and completely Eberflus' fault? I mean, OK.

Sometimes a narrative is simply the truth.

Yep. Just like the Raiders' epically comical bungle vs. the Chiefs was 100% totally and completely on Pierce for trying to run one more play before the FG attempt

 

[-OZ-]

Nothing was remotely in disarray until Williams himself changed the play....at 13 seconds.

We were not watching the same game. You can argue they could have pulled it off, but that last minute was a mess.

 

[massraider]

Yep. Just like the Raiders' epically comical bungle vs. the Chiefs was 100% totally and completely on Pierce for trying to run one more play before the FG attempt

Definitely.

When they draft Cam Ward, he gets full credit. AP playing chess out here.

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

A little more context on what happened after the game on Thursday and why firing Eberflus was really the only path forward:

https://web.archive.org/web/20241130140432/https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5957910/2024/11/30/matt-eberflus-fired-bears-players-locker-room/?source=emp_shared_article

 

[fatness]

A little more context on what happened after the game on Thursday and why firing Eberflus was really the only path forward:

https://web.archive.org/web/20241130140432/https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5957910/2024/11/30/matt-eberflus-fired-bears-players-locker-room/?source=emp_shared_article

Thanks for that. No wonder he was fired. You can't let a coach damage a team like that

 

[Grahamburn]

Why would that be unpopular?

Because it shows there's more to the story than simply "Eberflus is an idiot and this is all on him".

He’s the one that got canned, but the multi-millionaire super star QB just goes back to the facility and paints his nails.

When you resort to supeficial attacks like this everything else you say gets devalued. If you can’t recognize Caleb’s talent and growth, I have a hard time believing you’re being serious.

FWIW, Eberflus shouldn’t have gotten a third season. That’s on Poles and I have almost nothing else bad to say about Poles.

We can come back to this after Caleb gets his next coach fired.

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

Why would that be unpopular?

Because it shows there's more to the story than simply "Eberflus is an idiot and this is all on him".

He’s the one that got canned, but the multi-millionaire super star QB just goes back to the facility and paints his nails.

When you resort to supeficial attacks like this everything else you say gets devalued. If you can’t recognize Caleb’s talent and growth, I have a hard time believing you’re being serious.

FWIW, Eberflus shouldn’t have gotten a third season. That’s on Poles and I have almost nothing else bad to say about Poles.

We can come back to this after Caleb gets his next coach fired.

I don't see it, but if it happens, I'll eat crow. A lot is riding on the next HC hire, I'll admit that, but if he fails, then Poles, the new HC and Caleb will all be out of jobs IMO.

You understand the whole locker room was done with Eberlus, right? You think Caleb managed to round up everyone as a rookie and submarine the guy? Doubtful, but if so, I'd say he's one hell of a leader! Being serious for a minute, Caleb has looked pretty good in recent games. Sure there is still plenty of rookie stuff he needs to clean up, but the game is very clearly slowing down for him. As a Bears fan, I'm very happy he's in Chicago.

 

[Ray_T]

Why would that be unpopular?

Because it shows there's more to the story than simply "Eberflus is an idiot and this is all on him".

He’s the one that got canned, but the multi-millionaire super star QB just goes back to the facility and paints his nails.

When you resort to supeficial attacks like this everything else you say gets devalued. If you can’t recognize Caleb’s talent and growth, I have a hard time believing you’re being serious.

FWIW, Eberflus shouldn’t have gotten a third season. That’s on Poles and I have almost nothing else bad to say about Poles.

We can come back to this after Caleb gets his next coach fired.

I don't see it, but if it happens, I'll eat crow. A lot is riding on the next HC hire, I'll admit that, but if he fails, then Poles, the new HC and Caleb will all be out of jobs IMO.

You understand the whole locker room was done with Eberlus, right? You think Caleb managed to round up everyone as a rookie and submarine the guy? Doubtful, but if so, I'd say he's one hell of a leader! Being serious for a minute, Caleb has looked pretty good in recent games. Sure there is still plenty of rookie stuff he needs to clean up, but the game is very clearly slowing down for him. As a Bears fan, I'm very happy he's in Chicago.

I'd agree. Rookies dont come in and lead a team revolt.

its the Vets who people in the dressing room respect who would have done THAT. This is no slight against Caleb, but he hasnt been a pro long enough to fully know the difference between a good pro coach and a bad one..... so if he tried to lead a revolt, the vets likely would not have followed. I'd buy that he himself could have been one of the followers, but it is far more likely hes just trying to learn and master the offensive scheme as hes a rookie whose play has been inconsistent.

either way, it does look like the right move was made. The question I have is how are they going to make this right?

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

Why would that be unpopular?

Because it shows there's more to the story than simply "Eberflus is an idiot and this is all on him".

He’s the one that got canned, but the multi-millionaire super star QB just goes back to the facility and paints his nails.

When you resort to supeficial attacks like this everything else you say gets devalued. If you can’t recognize Caleb’s talent and growth, I have a hard time believing you’re being serious.

FWIW, Eberflus shouldn’t have gotten a third season. That’s on Poles and I have almost nothing else bad to say about Poles.

We can come back to this after Caleb gets his next coach fired.

I don't see it, but if it happens, I'll eat crow. A lot is riding on the next HC hire, I'll admit that, but if he fails, then Poles, the new HC and Caleb will all be out of jobs IMO.

You understand the whole locker room was done with Eberlus, right? You think Caleb managed to round up everyone as a rookie and submarine the guy? Doubtful, but if so, I'd say he's one hell of a leader! Being serious for a minute, Caleb has looked pretty good in recent games. Sure there is still plenty of rookie stuff he needs to clean up, but the game is very clearly slowing down for him. As a Bears fan, I'm very happy he's in Chicago.

I'd agree. Rookies dont come in and lead a team revolt.

its the Vets who people in the dressing room respect who would have done THAT. This is no slight against Caleb, but he hasnt been a pro long enough to fully know the difference between a good pro coach and a bad one..... so if he tried to lead a revolt, the vets likely would not have followed. I'd buy that he himself could have been one of the followers, but it is far more likely hes just trying to learn and master the offensive scheme as hes a rookie whose play has been inconsistent.

either way, it does look like the right move was made. The question I have is how are they going to make this right?

My comment about Caleb leading a revolt was tongue in cheek because it’s such a ridiculous premise. Eberflus left management with no other choice and the last game’s time management was just the straw that broke the camel’s back.

Getting Ben Johnson next season would be a good start in making this right.

 

[fatness]

You understand the whole locker room was done with Eberlus, right?

In case anyone doesn't know some of the back story here: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5957910/2024/11/30/matt-eberflus-fired-bears-players-locker-room/

According to multiple players and staffers in the locker room, some players were asking why Eberflus didn’t call a timeout. Other players got going, too.

“Guys were furious,” a staff member said. “It was an accumulation of this season.” “The locker room was ugly,” another staffer said. “There was a lot of yelling.”

Said the first player: “We felt as players it’s been too many instances where we fought our way back into games to lose because of bad time management and decision-making.” Multiple sources added that the emotions were so high between the players and their head coach that Eberflus left the locker room immediately after his speech and the exchange with players. There was nothing left to say.

 

[Grahamburn]

Why would that be unpopular?

Because it shows there's more to the story than simply "Eberflus is an idiot and this is all on him".

He’s the one that got canned, but the multi-millionaire super star QB just goes back to the facility and paints his nails.

When you resort to supeficial attacks like this everything else you say gets devalued. If you can’t recognize Caleb’s talent and growth, I have a hard time believing you’re being serious.

FWIW, Eberflus shouldn’t have gotten a third season. That’s on Poles and I have almost nothing else bad to say about Poles.

We can come back to this after Caleb gets his next coach fired.

This response tracks with your previous one. It is pretty much impossible to view your takes on Williams as anything other than driven by dislike for him as a person.

I don’t know him at all as a person. I know what I’ve seen in interviews and on Hard Knocks.

I think he plays hero ball instead of playing within structure and then isn’t accountable when things don’t work out. That’s all.

Not condoning Eberflus’ body of work at all.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Why would that be unpopular?

Because it shows there's more to the story than simply "Eberflus is an idiot and this is all on him".

He’s the one that got canned, but the multi-millionaire super star QB just goes back to the facility and paints his nails.

When you resort to supeficial attacks like this everything else you say gets devalued. If you can’t recognize Caleb’s talent and growth, I have a hard time believing you’re being serious.

FWIW, Eberflus shouldn’t have gotten a third season. That’s on Poles and I have almost nothing else bad to say about Poles.

We can come back to this after Caleb gets his next coach fired.

This response tracks with your previous one. It is pretty much impossible to view your takes on Williams as anything other than driven by dislike for him as a person.

I don’t know him at all as a person. I know what I’ve seen in interviews and on Hard Knocks.

I think he plays hero ball instead of playing within structure and then isn’t accountable when things don’t work out. That’s all.

Not condoning Eberflus’ body of work at all.

The getting out of structure and improvising was a concern from USC. And of course, it's result driven too, right. Getting off script doesn't seem to be a problem when it works out.

But I hear your point.

Bottom line is he's clearly very talented. Will be super interesting to see what they do next for coaching staff.

 

[Joe Bryant]

And also a general note, I'd like us to have a discussion without dismissing other posters viewpoints playing mindreader saying it's because they don't like the person.

I think we're mature enough here to keep the discussion to football performance.

 

[Grahamburn]

Why would that be unpopular?

Because it shows there's more to the story than simply "Eberflus is an idiot and this is all on him".

He’s the one that got canned, but the multi-millionaire super star QB just goes back to the facility and paints his nails.

When you resort to supeficial attacks like this everything else you say gets devalued. If you can’t recognize Caleb’s talent and growth, I have a hard time believing you’re being serious.

FWIW, Eberflus shouldn’t have gotten a third season. That’s on Poles and I have almost nothing else bad to say about Poles.

We can come back to this after Caleb gets his next coach fired.

This response tracks with your previous one. It is pretty much impossible to view your takes on Williams as anything other than driven by dislike for him as a person.

I don’t know him at all as a person. I know what I’ve seen in interviews and on Hard Knocks.

I think he plays hero ball instead of playing within structure and then isn’t accountable when things don’t work out. That’s all.

Not condoning Eberflus’ body of work at all.

The getting out of structure and improvising was a concern from USC. And of course, it's result driven too, right. Getting off script doesn't seem to be a problem when it works out.

But I hear your point.

Bottom line is he's clearly very talented. Will be super interesting to see what they do next for coaching staff.

He’s obviously just a rookie. If he figures out when to utilize that ability and when to play on time he could be great.

 

[Grahamburn]

And also a general note, I'd like us to have a discussion without dismissing other posters viewpoints playing mindreader saying it's because they don't like the person.

I think we're mature enough here to keep the discussion to football performance.

I got similarly lambasted for having the same kind of thoughts on Justin Fields. Feel the same way about Kyler Murray.

The guys that play this way are exciting and they make for great fantasy starters, but I just feel like they also make way too many negative plays that hurt their teams.

My comments about painting his nails or having purses are just me being a mid-40s traditionalist. Old habits and all.

 

[Chaka]

And also a general note, I'd like us to have a discussion without dismissing other posters viewpoints playing mindreader saying it's because they don't like the person.

I think we're mature enough here to keep the discussion to football performance.

My goodness, Mr. Bryant is it now unacceptable to comment on what people actually say?

Does it cause material harm, perceived or actual when I point out using the fact Williams paints his fingernails is not a rational point for analysis of his ability on the field?

I'm all for the language filter, getting rid of the yoga pants and "who's hottest?" threads etc. but, the laugh emoji? Not being to point out flaws in what people actually say?

At this point I find I am self censoring to the point of diminishing returns on the significant amount of time I spend here.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I'm all for the language filter, getting rid of the yoga pants and "who's hottest?" threads etc. but, the laugh emoji? Not being to point out flaws in what people actually say?

At this point I find I am self censoring to the point of diminishing returns on the significant amount of time I spend here.

Yes. We now just have 5 one click emojis. The is still right here though. We hope folks will use it when someone is trying to be funny vs using it to laugh at others.

I hope the forums are useful to folks and align with the time spent here. Thanks for the contributions you make.

We'll always keep trying to improve. For instance, I like the changes we've made to the "start-sit" thread this week.