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QB Caleb Williams, CHI (1 Viewer)

Please keep this to football and not the passive aggressive shots or troll accusations of other posters.

If there is something well over the line that's truly offensive, please use the report button.
 
Please keep this to football and not the passive aggressive shots or troll accusations of other posters.

If there is something well over the line that's truly offensive, please use the report button.
My post *edit mutiple posts* gets deleted yet repeated posts attacking someone's actions that have absolutely nothing to do with football don't? Subverting gender identity politics and using them to attack someone's character as a "joke" is ok on these boards now? Or is it just because it's Caleb Williams, who you seem to have an issue with?

What was wrong with my post Joe? I can point you to dozens of studies showing that most homophobic and gender bias in people such as Graham are indicator's of latent sexual identity issues present within the person themselves. Graham is the one broaching the subject several times throughout this thread. And you're the one allowing it. So we can't respond to it?
 
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Please keep this to football and not the passive aggressive shots or troll accusations of other posters.

If there is something well over the line that's truly offensive, please use the report button.
My post *edit mutiple posts* gets deleted yet repeated posts attacking someone's actions that have absolutely nothing to do with football don't? Subverting gender identity politics and using them to attack someone's character as a "joke" is ok on these boards now? Or is it just because it's Caleb Williams, who you seem to have an issue with?

What was wrong with my post Joe? I can point you to dozens of studies showing that most homophobic and gender bias in people such as Graham are indicator's of latent sexual identity issues present within the person themselves. Graham is the one broaching the subject several times throughout this thread. And you're the one allowing it. So we can't respond to it?

Not sure what you mean or "allowing". Several posts were deleted where the topic was way off NFL football. If there is something well over the line that's truly offensive, please use the report button.

And no idea what you mean by "Or is it just because it's Caleb Williams, who you seem to have an issue with?".

Can you please quote what I've posted that makes you say "I have an issue" with Williams?

Again, please keep the topic to NFL Football. And not shots at each other. And again, if there is something well over the line that's truly offensive, please use the report button.
 
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So whats our toughts on Caleb vs San-Fran this week ? Startable ?
Bears offense seems to be on a revival of sorts but consider the injuries to the Lions secondary in the second half of the Thanksgiving game. I believe that the bet here is that the 49’ers have tapped out and the Bears are playing hard for Brown. The Bears have many playmakers. Both organizations play frequently so its a rival type of gridiron battle. I would lean on Williams if you are in a pinch. He has been good wrt ball control for a rookie and DJ and KA have been very productive since Brown grabbed OC reins
 
So whats our toughts on Caleb vs San-Fran this week ? Startable ?

It's super early obviously and rankings will change, but he's our QB10 right now https://www.footballguys.com/rankings/duration/weekly?pos=qb
Over Will Levis at home vs Jax?

Yes. Right now at least. You can see the full list here https://www.footballguys.com/rankings/duration/weekly?pos=qb

We currently have Levis two spots below Williams and .6 points difference so they're essentially coin flips for us.
 
And also a general note, I'd like us to have a discussion without dismissing other posters viewpoints playing mindreader saying it's because they don't like the person.

I think we're mature enough here to keep the discussion to football performance.
My goodness, Mr. Bryant is it now unacceptable to comment on what people actually say?

Does it cause material harm, perceived or actual when I point out using the fact Williams paints his fingernails is not a rational point for analysis of his ability on the field?

I'm all for the language filter, getting rid of the yoga pants and "who's hottest?" threads etc. but, the laugh emoji? Not being to point out flaws in what people actually say?

At this point I find I am self censoring to the point of diminishing returns on the significant amount of time I spend here.
@Joe Bryant I 💯 agree with Chaka on this…..it was obvious
 
And also a general note, I'd like us to have a discussion without dismissing other posters viewpoints playing mindreader saying it's because they don't like the person.

I think we're mature enough here to keep the discussion to football performance.
My goodness, Mr. Bryant is it now unacceptable to comment on what people actually say?

Does it cause material harm, perceived or actual when I point out using the fact Williams paints his fingernails is not a rational point for analysis of his ability on the field?

I'm all for the language filter, getting rid of the yoga pants and "who's hottest?" threads etc. but, the laugh emoji? Not being to point out flaws in what people actually say?

At this point I find I am self censoring to the point of diminishing returns on the significant amount of time I spend here.
@Joe Bryant I 💯 agree with Chaka on this…..it was obvious

Thanks. As I said, earlier, we now just have 5 one click emojis. The :lmao: is still right here though. We hope folks will use it when someone is trying to be funny vs using it to laugh at others.

I hope the forums are useful to folks and align with the time spent here. Thanks for the contributions you make.

We'll always keep trying to improve. For instance, I like the changes we've made to the "start-sit" thread this week.
 
The Vikings have a tough pass D, but Caleb just doesn’t seem to trust himself
I think it's a product of having three OC's. The organization is a train wreck. They have had three top-10 QBs in the last decade and nothing to show for it.
And a Swiss cheese OL. This is my main criticism of Poles. He wanted to moneyball the OL and it has bitten him in the rear end. The Bears don't have starting quality players at 3 of the 5 OL positions AND have barely NFL quality backups. At a position where it's very easy to have injury, it doesn't make sense to be thin there. I'll also die on the hill that Chris Morgan needs to go. He's had nearly 3 years to "coach up" this OL and it still looks like a high school product.

It will remain to be seen how Caleb does in year 2 and beyond, but he has the physical tools and I believe he has the processing ability.
 
The Vikings have a tough pass D, but Caleb just doesn’t seem to trust himself
I think it's a product of having three OC's. The organization is a train wreck. They have had three top-10 QBs in the last decade and nothing to show for it.
And a Swiss cheese OL. This is my main criticism of Poles. He wanted to moneyball the OL and it has bitten him in the rear end. The Bears don't have starting quality players at 3 of the 5 OL positions AND have barely NFL quality backups. At a position where it's very easy to have injury, it doesn't make sense to be thin there. I'll also die on the hill that Chris Morgan needs to go. He's had nearly 3 years to "coach up" this OL and it still looks like a high school product.

It will remain to be seen how Caleb does in year 2 and beyond, but he has the physical tools and I believe he has the processing ability.
Much easier to moneyball the QB than the lines.
 
The Vikings have a tough pass D, but Caleb just doesn’t seem to trust himself
I think it's a product of having three OC's. The organization is a train wreck. They have had three top-10 QBs in the last decade and nothing to show for it.
Its certainly been a problem, especially as its not like any of them were considered good.

I'm not super worried about Caleb yet, but obviously you'd like if it'd gone better.

How bad has Caleb Williams been?In terms of accuracy and sack avoidance, it's the worst QB season in recent memory. Worse than any season from Zach Wilson, Bryce Young, or Justin Fields, as impossible as that may seem

Link
While that stat is troubling, I do think Williams has pretty clearly been better than Young was as a rookie or Wilson ever was. He's made some positive plays that rookie Young didn't, and Wilson never did in his career.

I'll forever stand by the argument that Fields was never the problem, even if he also wasn't the solution.
 
The Vikings have a tough pass D, but Caleb just doesn’t seem to trust himself
I think it's a product of having three OC's. The organization is a train wreck. They have had three top-10 QBs in the last decade and nothing to show for it.
Its certainly been a problem, especially as its not like any of them were considered good.

I'm not super worried about Caleb yet, but obviously you'd like if it'd gone better.

How bad has Caleb Williams been?In terms of accuracy and sack avoidance, it's the worst QB season in recent memory. Worse than any season from Zach Wilson, Bryce Young, or Justin Fields, as impossible as that may seem

Link
While that stat is troubling, I do think Williams has pretty clearly been better than Young was as a rookie or Wilson ever was. He's made some positive plays that rookie Young didn't, and Wilson never did in his career.

I'll forever stand by the argument that Fields was never the problem, even if he also wasn't the solution.
I’ll always believe the Bears downgraded from Fields to Caleb. That move set the franchise back another few years.
 
The Vikings have a tough pass D, but Caleb just doesn’t seem to trust himself
I think it's a product of having three OC's. The organization is a train wreck. They have had three top-10 QBs in the last decade and nothing to show for it.
Its certainly been a problem, especially as its not like any of them were considered good.

I'm not super worried about Caleb yet, but obviously you'd like if it'd gone better.

How bad has Caleb Williams been?In terms of accuracy and sack avoidance, it's the worst QB season in recent memory. Worse than any season from Zach Wilson, Bryce Young, or Justin Fields, as impossible as that may seem

Link
While that stat is troubling, I do think Williams has pretty clearly been better than Young was as a rookie or Wilson ever was. He's made some positive plays that rookie Young didn't, and Wilson never did in his career.

I'll forever stand by the argument that Fields was never the problem, even if he also wasn't the solution.
I’ll always believe the Bears downgraded from Fields to Caleb. That move set the franchise back another few years.
Keeping Eberflus and hiring Waldron was the death knell here.

Caleb is a better QB than Fields.

Hoping the Bears hire the right coach is what you bears fans should be concerned with.

If they don’t, I’d hope you guys riot in the streets about it.
 
The Vikings have a tough pass D, but Caleb just doesn’t seem to trust himself
I think it's a product of having three OC's. The organization is a train wreck. They have had three top-10 QBs in the last decade and nothing to show for it.
Its certainly been a problem, especially as its not like any of them were considered good.

I'm not super worried about Caleb yet, but obviously you'd like if it'd gone better.

How bad has Caleb Williams been?In terms of accuracy and sack avoidance, it's the worst QB season in recent memory. Worse than any season from Zach Wilson, Bryce Young, or Justin Fields, as impossible as that may seem

Link
While that stat is troubling, I do think Williams has pretty clearly been better than Young was as a rookie or Wilson ever was. He's made some positive plays that rookie Young didn't, and Wilson never did in his career.

I'll forever stand by the argument that Fields was never the problem, even if he also wasn't the solution.
I’ll always believe the Bears downgraded from Fields to Caleb. That move set the franchise back another few years.
Fields was not a good qb. Can't win with him regularly.
 
How bad has Caleb Williams been?In terms of accuracy and sack avoidance, it's the worst QB season in recent memory. Worse than any season from Zach Wilson, Bryce Young, or Justin Fields, as impossible as that may seem

Link
I'm amazed at how inaccurate he is on anything past like 15 yards.
 
The Vikings have a tough pass D, but Caleb just doesn’t seem to trust himself
I think it's a product of having three OC's. The organization is a train wreck. They have had three top-10 QBs in the last decade and nothing to show for it.
Its certainly been a problem, especially as its not like any of them were considered good.

I'm not super worried about Caleb yet, but obviously you'd like if it'd gone better.

How bad has Caleb Williams been?In terms of accuracy and sack avoidance, it's the worst QB season in recent memory. Worse than any season from Zach Wilson, Bryce Young, or Justin Fields, as impossible as that may seem

Link
While that stat is troubling, I do think Williams has pretty clearly been better than Young was as a rookie or Wilson ever was. He's made some positive plays that rookie Young didn't, and Wilson never did in his career.

I'll forever stand by the argument that Fields was never the problem, even if he also wasn't the solution.
I’ll always believe the Bears downgraded from Fields to Caleb. That move set the franchise back another few years.
As much as I liked Fields, he is inarguably worse than Caleb (year 4 vs year 1) at going through his progressions and seeing the field. Caleb definitely has some bad habits that need to be coached out (footwork, heroball, staying on program), but right now he's a better QB than Fields has ever been.
 
The Vikings have a tough pass D, but Caleb just doesn’t seem to trust himself
I think it's a product of having three OC's. The organization is a train wreck. They have had three top-10 QBs in the last decade and nothing to show for it.
Its certainly been a problem, especially as its not like any of them were considered good.

I'm not super worried about Caleb yet, but obviously you'd like if it'd gone better.

How bad has Caleb Williams been?In terms of accuracy and sack avoidance, it's the worst QB season in recent memory. Worse than any season from Zach Wilson, Bryce Young, or Justin Fields, as impossible as that may seem

Link
While that stat is troubling, I do think Williams has pretty clearly been better than Young was as a rookie or Wilson ever was. He's made some positive plays that rookie Young didn't, and Wilson never did in his career.

I'll forever stand by the argument that Fields was never the problem, even if he also wasn't the solution.
I’ll always believe the Bears downgraded from Fields to Caleb. That move set the franchise back another few years.
As much as I liked Fields, he is inarguably worse than Caleb (year 4 vs year 1) at going through his progressions and seeing the field. Caleb definitely has some bad habits that need to be coached out (footwork, heroball, staying on program), but right now he's a better QB than Fields has ever been.

Caleb might become better, but Fields is currently better. The Bears would most likely have a winning record and be in the playoff hunt right now if they had stuck with Fields, not to mention what they could have done with who knows how many more draft picks.
 
The Vikings have a tough pass D, but Caleb just doesn’t seem to trust himself
I think it's a product of having three OC's. The organization is a train wreck. They have had three top-10 QBs in the last decade and nothing to show for it.
Its certainly been a problem, especially as its not like any of them were considered good.

I'm not super worried about Caleb yet, but obviously you'd like if it'd gone better.

How bad has Caleb Williams been?In terms of accuracy and sack avoidance, it's the worst QB season in recent memory. Worse than any season from Zach Wilson, Bryce Young, or Justin Fields, as impossible as that may seem

Link
While that stat is troubling, I do think Williams has pretty clearly been better than Young was as a rookie or Wilson ever was. He's made some positive plays that rookie Young didn't, and Wilson never did in his career.

I'll forever stand by the argument that Fields was never the problem, even if he also wasn't the solution.
I’ll always believe the Bears downgraded from Fields to Caleb. That move set the franchise back another few years.
As much as I liked Fields, he is inarguably worse than Caleb (year 4 vs year 1) at going through his progressions and seeing the field. Caleb definitely has some bad habits that need to be coached out (footwork, heroball, staying on program), but right now he's a better QB than Fields has ever been.

Caleb might become better, but Fields is currently better. The Bears would most likely have a winning record and be in the playoff hunt right now if they had stuck with Fields, not to mention what they could have done with who knows how many more draft picks.
This guy gets it.
 
The Vikings have a tough pass D, but Caleb just doesn’t seem to trust himself
I think it's a product of having three OC's. The organization is a train wreck. They have had three top-10 QBs in the last decade and nothing to show for it.
Its certainly been a problem, especially as its not like any of them were considered good.

I'm not super worried about Caleb yet, but obviously you'd like if it'd gone better.

How bad has Caleb Williams been?In terms of accuracy and sack avoidance, it's the worst QB season in recent memory. Worse than any season from Zach Wilson, Bryce Young, or Justin Fields, as impossible as that may seem

Link
While that stat is troubling, I do think Williams has pretty clearly been better than Young was as a rookie or Wilson ever was. He's made some positive plays that rookie Young didn't, and Wilson never did in his career.

I'll forever stand by the argument that Fields was never the problem, even if he also wasn't the solution.
I’ll always believe the Bears downgraded from Fields to Caleb. That move set the franchise back another few years.
As much as I liked Fields, he is inarguably worse than Caleb (year 4 vs year 1) at going through his progressions and seeing the field. Caleb definitely has some bad habits that need to be coached out (footwork, heroball, staying on program), but right now he's a better QB than Fields has ever been.

Caleb might become better, but Fields is currently better. The Bears would most likely have a winning record and be in the playoff hunt right now if they had stuck with Fields, not to mention what they could have done with who knows how many more draft picks.
😂
Caleb is currently a better QB than Fields will ever be. And Caleb has not obviously not been great.

Also it’s a good thing they didn’t trade that pick for a haul because that’s less draft picks for Poles to screw up
 
I'm not a Bears fan but I do have interest in Caleb in a sf. One of the things I've heard that gives me pause is ownership is cheap and there is a guy over the team Kevin Warren that probably doesn't want to give up power. At this time, there is a coach that could change the Bears but I can't see it happening. People don't give up power, it has to be taken.
 
Need some advice, folks. I'm in the 2-week championship game, 1st half (Week 16) is in the books. I have a comfortable lead at half.

Hurts is my starting QB. Caleb Williams is the backup (who plays Thursday night). What do YOU do this week?

1. Start Williams, get *some* points for sure.
2. Start Hurts, risk the bagel, but higher payoff (probably).

I know that this is an Assistant Coach question, but cut a guy some slack. It's the championship. TIA.
 
Not a Bears, Packers, Vikings or Lions fan but...I dislike Poles. I think he's a disingenuous a-hole. I know the nfl is a business and interests can conflict but I really do feel like how Feilds was treated was wrong. I trust that you guys know better than me but I think there is the possibility that Williams is just not as good as he was promised to be. "He has a poor ol." The coaching is bad." maybe, maybe all he needs is a good coach and an ok o-line and he'll be the next Peyton Manning.

At any rate, I went ahead and drafted DJ Moore and he's been a bit of a letdown. I just felt like sharing.
 
Not a Bears, Packers, Vikings or Lions fan but...I dislike Poles. I think he's a disingenuous a-hole. I know the nfl is a business and interests can conflict but I really do feel like how Feilds was treated was wrong. I trust that you guys know better than me but I think there is the possibility that Williams is just not as good as he was promised to be. "He has a poor ol." The coaching is bad." maybe, maybe all he needs is a good coach and an ok o-line and he'll be the next Peyton Manning.

At any rate, I went ahead and drafted DJ Moore and he's been a bit of a letdown. I just felt like sharing.
It's hypocritical to say that Fields was treated poorly then use the same excuses/reasons used on Fields to denigrate Williams. Several things can be true at once. Fields could have been critically flawed AND the OL/Coaching suck. Will Caleb be the next Peyton Manning if the Bears upgrade the OL? Who knows. Will he be a serviceable or better starting QB in the NFL for a long time? I think the odds are stronger for Williams than FIelds.
Also, the Fields situation is an interesting place to throw hate at Poles. By all accounts, Poles took an L on the Fields trade so that he could go to his preference of team. The truth is, Poles had a cap disaster to overhaul and the front office decided to blow it up and start over in 2022. So far (with the exception of IOL and DT/DE), I think Poles has done a decent job of re-racking talent and managing the cap.
 
denigrate Williams
Am I doing that? Having a poor OL and a bad coaching staff/bad organization seem to be the current excuses for why Williams isn't doing real great. I agree but I'm not the only one saying this. Both are important. They fix those and he's a decent QB? maybe. We'll see. At most, I'm saying there's the possibility that he might not be as good as we were told he was. That seems like it doesn't really have anything to do with Fields though so I'm a little confused or maybe I'm just stupid.

Correct me if I'm wrong here but I was under the impression that Poles wanted Fields out so his handpicked QB could take over without having to possibly compete for QB1 and/or not feel any pressure when/if he struggled. Or was it more that Fields wanted out after he was informed they were going to draft and start Williams? Or are you saying that neither of those are true and he was a cap causaity?

I guess to me...Chicago went from a 3-14 to a team to a 7-10 team and 6 of those losses were by less than 10 points. I guess part of me feels like Fields wasn't really the problem and considering that the Bears are currently 4-11 with a similar # of close losses doesn't really make me think I'm all that off. Now maybe Fields isn't that great and Williams will be much better in the long run but if the Broncos could win a WC game with Tebow why can't the Bears win with Fields?

I guess it makes sense to go ahead and draft your QB of the future (assuming he pans out) but I didn't really see a need to jettison Fields.
 
denigrate Williams
Am I doing that? Having a poor OL and a bad coaching staff/bad organization seem to be the current excuses for why Williams isn't doing real great. I agree but I'm not the only one saying this. Both are important. They fix those and he's a decent QB? maybe. We'll see. At most, I'm saying there's the possibility that he might not be as good as we were told he was. That seems like it doesn't really have anything to do with Fields though so I'm a little confused or maybe I'm just stupid.

Correct me if I'm wrong here but I was under the impression that Poles wanted Fields out so his handpicked QB could take over without having to possibly compete for QB1 and/or not feel any pressure when/if he struggled. Or was it more that Fields wanted out after he was informed they were going to draft and start Williams? Or are you saying that neither of those are true and he was a cap causaity?

I guess to me...Chicago went from a 3-14 to a team to a 7-10 team and 6 of those losses were by less than 10 points. I guess part of me feels like Fields wasn't really the problem and considering that the Bears are currently 4-11 with a similar # of close losses doesn't really make me think I'm all that off. Now maybe Fields isn't that great and Williams will be much better in the long run but if the Broncos could win a WC game with Tebow why can't the Bears win with Fields?

I guess it makes sense to go ahead and draft your QB of the future (assuming he pans out) but I didn't really see a need to jettison Fields.
A lot of Bears fans preferred keeping FIelds and trading the #1 for a haul. Poles thought the roster (inclusive of Fields) just wasn't good enough and decided to reset the most expensive position (QB). That gives him 4-5 years to build a team around Williams before having to open up the checkbook for a mega contract. With that decision made, Poles supposedly promised Fields he'd get traded to one of Field's preferred teams. After his play this season, I don't expect Fields will get starter money from any team. He'll likely resign with the Steelers on a 2 year 10-15mil per year backup contract.

All that to say, the bottom line was that Poles felt Fields wasn't good enough to give a huge contract and decided to get his guy on a rookie deal for the next 4-5 years.
 
Better than Stroud

Just saying.
I'd hesitate to go that far, but here's some fun Caleb stats...

From weeks 4-16 Caleb has:
2,641 passing yards
17 TD's
1 INT
96.6 passer rating

He's the only rookie QB with over 500 attempts and less than 10 INTs in NFL history. He's currently QB12 in fantasy.

All of this is on a dysfunctional team that's had 3 different play callers. I do think he's getting a little punished because Jayden Daniels is an NFL MVP (top-5 for sure anyway) candidate. Caleb and Maye have both really done a lot in bad situations, even if some of it has been in garbage time.
 
Better than Stroud

Just saying.
I'd hesitate to go that far, but here's some fun Caleb stats...

From weeks 4-16 Caleb has:
2,641 passing yards
17 TD's
1 INT
96.6 passer rating

He's the only rookie QB with over 500 attempts and less than 10 INTs in NFL history. He's currently QB12 in fantasy.

All of this is on a dysfunctional team that's had 3 different play callers. I do think he's getting a little punished because Jayden Daniels is an NFL MVP (top-5 for sure anyway) candidate. Caleb and Maye have both really done a lot in bad situations, even if some of it has been in garbage time.
Better watch out Trav…the haters will come out in forces.
 
he causes a lot of his own sacks

goes against the OL in most simplified counting stats but PFF tracks who causes sacks - they don't mark down lineman who do their job but the QB holds it too long or moves out of the pocket and slides to where the rusher can tackle him

Caleb Is one the worst in the league at converting pressure into sacks (29.7%), only Will Levis has been worse

that's gotta stop but it's Y1, it seems like correctable stuff
 
Simple questions - Were there reads he was missing? Guys open that he didn't get the ball to?

IMO - That offensive scheme was rancid and they hung their rookie out to dry.
 
He looks lost so often, I also think, at times that he's putting more importance on protecting himself than making a play. But he just oozes athleticism and potential. Some of the throws he makes when he breaks contain are insane.

I hope the Bears figure it out and pair him with a coach who can figure out how to maximize his potential.

I understand why people think he could be special.
 

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