QB Caleb Williams, CHI (13 Viewers)

[Chaka]

You'd take mercurial, moody and all the family baggage over the magnanimous, gregarious, fun-loving Daniels?

Stated like that, of course you take Daniels. More importantly, after what we saw last season on the field, of course you take Daniels and that was the only point you needed to make.

On the personality front, the reality is we have no real idea who these guys are behind the scenes.

FWIW 1) Caleb seemed like a good dude on Hard Knocks. & 2) trying to engineer his landing spot is probably really appreciated in the locker room.

Gonna go out on a limb and say that all players would like much more say in where they get to play.

Dude......

If you asked two players in 2023 which organization they'd rather play for, Chicago or Washington, how many are picking the latter? That franchise was an abortion since Joe Gibbs left the 2nd time.

I like Caleb Williams quite a bit but his displayed personality underscores many troubling factors. Factor in his over bearing father and it is an easy decision for me to make on who I prefer to lead my franchise.

I'm not sure I agree and, frankly I am surprised that is your argument. There is an easy, clear, logical argument for choosing Daniels over Caleb based entirely on what we saw on the field. The direction you are taking is weird.

To your point there is a big difference between 1) pre and post Dan Snyder and 2) big difference between choosing new ownership in Washington and the same old, same old Bears

But, that wasn't even related to my point. Even though the talk of Caleb's contract asks was overblown, headline driven nonsense. What the NFL fan on the outside may think about the reported asks is nowhere near what the guys in the locker room think about it.

Stuff like ownership percentage, guaranteed contracts or a salary based on percentage of cap rather than fixed numbers are probably very popular among players.

And we don't even know what Caleb's camp asked for but talk about it as if it were fact.

 

[Mitchie]

I just think between the ears, Caleb has some major growing and development to do to catch Daniels, Maye and Nix. All four went to horrible teams. Nix and Daniels made the playoffs. Maye got a late start but was impressive. Williams got his coach fired and another season like 2024 and the GM is gone too.

Think the coach got himself fired.

Did the QB improve after he was fired?

yes

 

[Chaka]

I just think between the ears, Caleb has some major growing and development to do to catch Daniels, Maye and Nix. All four went to horrible teams. Nix and Daniels made the playoffs. Maye got a late start but was impressive. Williams got his coach fired and another season like 2024 and the GM is gone too.

Think the coach got himself fired.

Did the QB improve after he was fired?

Did he improve in the five games after the HC was fired and started working with his third OC that season?

I guess it depends how you define it but he was more accurate and improved his TD% after Getsy was fired. He maintained the increased accuracy but the TD% dropped a bit after Eberflus was fired.

But, judging based on discrete 12, 8 & 5 game stretches feels flawed, doesn't it?

 

[tommyGunZ]

I would take Daniels and Maye over Williams TBH.

I'd take Nix over Williams too....maybe even Penix.

If you'd rather have all these dudes than Caleb, I don't think you're bullish on him.

 

[LawFitz]

Only makes sense for the first of six to end up the worst. Caleb's a diva. He better sack up and avoid the sacks this year, b/c I don't think he has the mental/emotional fortitude to withstand what's coming if he doesn't. Not saying he's gonna bust, but would it seriously surprise anyone if he did at this point? Heavy is the crown.

 

[massraider]

I just think between the ears, Caleb has some major growing and development to do to catch Daniels, Maye and Nix. All four went to horrible teams. Nix and Daniels made the playoffs. Maye got a late start but was impressive. Williams got his coach fired and another season like 2024 and the GM is gone too.

Think the coach got himself fired.

Did the QB improve after he was fired?

These are some strong arguments you are making.

He got the coach fired, and
He didn't improve after the coach was fired on Thanksgiving.


He's also two years younger than Daniels. Two years younger.

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

I just think between the ears, Caleb has some major growing and development to do to catch Daniels, Maye and Nix. All four went to horrible teams. Nix and Daniels made the playoffs. Maye got a late start but was impressive. Williams got his coach fired and another season like 2024 and the GM is gone too.

Think the coach got himself fired.

Did the QB improve after he was fired?

Did he improve in the five games after the HC was fired and started working with his third OC that season?

I guess it depends how you define it but he was more accurate and improved his TD% after Getsy was fired. He maintained the increased accuracy but the TD% dropped a bit after Eberflus was fired.

But, judging based on discrete 12, 8 & 5 game stretches feels flawed, doesn't it?

I agree with your argument 100%, but Waldron was the OC, not Getsy. Both sucked donkey b*lls while in Chicago.

Waldron got fired because he wasn't in any shape or form preparing his ROOKIE QB for the NFL. Caleb had to take the initiative to watch film BY HIMSELF during the season, for crying out loud.

 

[pinkstapler]

I just think between the ears, Caleb has some major growing and development to do to catch Daniels, Maye and Nix. All four went to horrible teams. Nix and Daniels made the playoffs. Maye got a late start but was impressive. Williams got his coach fired and another season like 2024 and the GM is gone too.

Think the coach got himself fired.

Did the QB improve after he was fired?

Caleb Williams was the QB5 in fantasy across the 3 weeks after Waldron was fired. He was the QB3 removing the very first game after losing his OC.

Over those three weeks after excising part of the cancer that entire staff was Caleb went 75 for 117 for 827 yard, rushed 19 times for 142 yards, and threw 5 TDs with 0 Ints.

It's hard to believe your claim you are bullish on Williams if you are putting last season squarely on his shoulders. It's honestly a miracle he did as well as he did there. And shows how much better he improved when actually REMOVING an OC that's supposed to be a huge support for a rookie QB. Thomas Brown with 0 prep and no install time was able to immediately turn Caleb into a top 10 performing QB. And again, top 5 fantasy scoring. And I think Ben Johnson will be just a mild improvement over Thomas Brown.

Absorbing everything Bears this off-season; I still don't think Caleb is necessarily going to come out the gates putting up gawdy numbers. That just doesn't seem to fit with everything else BJ has done this offseason. He has a long term plan and will be designing a system and calling plays to achieve long term success and win a championship; not to make Caleb look good and put up fantasy stats. But I do think by as early as the end of this season, and definitely heading into next, he will be considered a QB1 in the league and in fantasy.

 

[General Malaise]

I would take Daniels and Maye over Williams TBH.

I'd take Nix over Williams too....maybe even Penix.

If you'd rather have all these dudes than Caleb, I don't think you're bullish on him.

I can be bullish on a stock and like four stocks more than that single one. Right? Both things can be true.

I'm holding on to Caleb in dynasty, but if I'm drafting today, I'm taking Nix and Daniels over him without a second thought. Maye is a maybe and Penix, too early to tell, but I do think he's going to make less mistakes than Caleb did last year in a full season.

I'd like to see Williams improve because when he was on at USC, he was the most electrifying player/QB I've seen in a long time. But his pat-pat-patting of the ball and scrambling behind a battered pocket is a good way to turn it over, take bad sacks or land on the IR.

 

[General Malaise]

I just think between the ears, Caleb has some major growing and development to do to catch Daniels, Maye and Nix. All four went to horrible teams. Nix and Daniels made the playoffs. Maye got a late start but was impressive. Williams got his coach fired and another season like 2024 and the GM is gone too.

Think the coach got himself fired.

Did the QB improve after he was fired?

Caleb Williams was the QB5 in fantasy across the 3 weeks after Waldron was fired. He was the QB3 removing the very first game after losing his OC.

Over those three weeks after excising part of the cancer that entire staff was Caleb went 75 for 117 for 827 yard, rushed 19 times for 142 yards, and threw 5 TDs with 0 Ints.

It's hard to believe your claim you are bullish on Williams if you are putting last season squarely on his shoulders. It's honestly a miracle he did as well as he did there. And shows how much better he improved when actually REMOVING an OC that's supposed to be a huge support for a rookie QB. Thomas Brown with 0 prep and no install time was able to immediately turn Caleb into a top 10 performing QB. And again, top 5 fantasy scoring. And I think Ben Johnson will be just a mild improvement over Thomas Brown.

Absorbing everything Bears this off-season; I still don't think Caleb is necessarily going to come out the gates putting up gawdy numbers. That just doesn't seem to fit with everything else BJ has done this offseason. He has a long term plan and will be designing a system and calling plays to achieve long term success and win a championship; not to make Caleb look good and put up fantasy stats. But I do think by as early as the end of this season, and definitely heading into next, he will be considered a QB1 in the league and in fantasy.

I hope you're right, I'd love to see it.

Looking at FBG QB Rankings in fantasy, Caleb is behind Daniels and Nix in Redraft but ahead of Nix in Dynasty (by 1). I do think Caleb has more upside physically, but I'd like to see some improvement on his mentals.

 

[Chaka]

I would take Daniels and Maye over Williams TBH.

I'd take Nix over Williams too....maybe even Penix.

If you'd rather have all these dudes than Caleb, I don't think you're bullish on him.

I can be bullish on a stock and like four stocks more than that single one. Right? Both things can be true.

I'm holding on to Caleb in dynasty, but if I'm drafting today, I'm taking Nix and Daniels over him without a second thought. Maye is a maybe and Penix, too early to tell, but I do think he's going to make less mistakes than Caleb did last year in a full season.

I'd like to see Williams improve because when he was on at USC, he was the most electrifying player/QB I've seen in a long time. But his pat-pat-patting of the ball and scrambling behind a battered pocket is a good way to turn it over, take bad sacks or land on the IR.

Honest question: Hasn't this part been thoroughly debunked? I thought lots of QBs, or at least a few very successful ones pat the ball plenty.

 

[General Malaise]

I would take Daniels and Maye over Williams TBH.

I'd take Nix over Williams too....maybe even Penix.

If you'd rather have all these dudes than Caleb, I don't think you're bullish on him.

I can be bullish on a stock and like four stocks more than that single one. Right? Both things can be true.

I'm holding on to Caleb in dynasty, but if I'm drafting today, I'm taking Nix and Daniels over him without a second thought. Maye is a maybe and Penix, too early to tell, but I do think he's going to make less mistakes than Caleb did last year in a full season.

I'd like to see Williams improve because when he was on at USC, he was the most electrifying player/QB I've seen in a long time. But his pat-pat-patting of the ball and scrambling behind a battered pocket is a good way to turn it over, take bad sacks or land on the IR.

Honest question: Hasn't this part been thoroughly debunked? I thought lots of QBs, or at least a few very successful ones pat the ball plenty.

What do you attribute his sack rate to? According to internet, Williams was the 2nd worse rookie in 15 years in sack rate and pressure to sack rate. If he isn't holding on to the ball too long, what was the reason for this? Bad line? That's part of it, sure. Bad coaching? Okay. Anything else?

Still, sacks are the single biggest reason to be worried about Caleb Williams’ long-term NFL outlook at this point. Anecdotal evidence across this sample backs that up, as the QBs most similar to Williams in sack rate and pressure to sack rate as rookies are Blake Bortles, Bryce Young, Zach Wilson, Justin Fields, Josh Rosen, Kyler Murray, Marcus Mariota, and Jimmy Clausen. There are a lot of busts on that list, only 1-2 long-term starters (depending on how Bryce Young turns out), and no MVP-caliber players.

 

[pinkstapler]

I just think between the ears, Caleb has some major growing and development to do to catch Daniels, Maye and Nix. All four went to horrible teams. Nix and Daniels made the playoffs. Maye got a late start but was impressive. Williams got his coach fired and another season like 2024 and the GM is gone too.

Think the coach got himself fired.

Did the QB improve after he was fired?

Caleb Williams was the QB5 in fantasy across the 3 weeks after Waldron was fired. He was the QB3 removing the very first game after losing his OC.

Over those three weeks after excising part of the cancer that entire staff was Caleb went 75 for 117 for 827 yard, rushed 19 times for 142 yards, and threw 5 TDs with 0 Ints.

It's hard to believe your claim you are bullish on Williams if you are putting last season squarely on his shoulders. It's honestly a miracle he did as well as he did there. And shows how much better he improved when actually REMOVING an OC that's supposed to be a huge support for a rookie QB. Thomas Brown with 0 prep and no install time was able to immediately turn Caleb into a top 10 performing QB. And again, top 5 fantasy scoring. And I think Ben Johnson will be just a mild improvement over Thomas Brown.

Absorbing everything Bears this off-season; I still don't think Caleb is necessarily going to come out the gates putting up gawdy numbers. That just doesn't seem to fit with everything else BJ has done this offseason. He has a long term plan and will be designing a system and calling plays to achieve long term success and win a championship; not to make Caleb look good and put up fantasy stats. But I do think by as early as the end of this season, and definitely heading into next, he will be considered a QB1 in the league and in fantasy.

I hope you're right, I'd love to see it.

Looking at FBG QB Rankings in fantasy, Caleb is behind Daniels and Nix in Redraft but ahead of Nix in Dynasty (by 1). I do think Caleb has more upside physically, but I'd like to see some improvement on his mentals.

I can get behind that. There was definitely a lot Caleb still needs to work on we could see last year; even removing the dumpster fire the whole organization was from the picture. Being picky, probably more than we'd like him to have to work on considering where he was picked in both real life and our dynasty leagues. But tbh, most of it was in his profile coming from USC, a lot of people just overlooked it or thought it would somehow get fixed super quick during Bears camp/preseason. It didn't lol. But again, part of that I think I'd blame on that staff who apparently didn't even watch film with the kid and left him to more or less figure it out on his own.

I think it will get fixed over the course of this season. And if Ben Johnson has some designed run work for him (not the scramble for his life stuff from last season) I think he doesn't even need to be THAT good of a passer. Just slightly above average, and he'll wind up a top 12 guy. If he REALLY gets the passing game together, plus the rushing, that's where I think he has top 5 upside. Realistically he has one of the best offensive minds, and more weapons than they can use. So if he isn't doing well by the second half of this year, I'll jump on the bust bandwagon myself.

 

[General Malaise]

I do think it's malpractice for NFL organizations to draft a rookie QB as highly as Williams was selected and provide him with a defensive minded HC. Obviously, it worked out in Washington, but having Kliff Kingsbury as a tutor and OC is a major step up in class to what Chicago had in place for Williams.

 

[Deranged Hermit]

The sacks i can look past because the o-line was horrific last year. I can't tell you how many times the interior of the line just got blown up and there were three guys in the back field before you can blink.
What bothers me the most was him missing the 'easy' throws right over the middle I'm not sure what to chalk that up to. Nerves? Happy Feet? Inexperience? Maybe he's just not good?
We'll find out soon i guess.

 

[Chaka]

I would take Daniels and Maye over Williams TBH.

I'd take Nix over Williams too....maybe even Penix.

If you'd rather have all these dudes than Caleb, I don't think you're bullish on him.

I can be bullish on a stock and like four stocks more than that single one. Right? Both things can be true.

I'm holding on to Caleb in dynasty, but if I'm drafting today, I'm taking Nix and Daniels over him without a second thought. Maye is a maybe and Penix, too early to tell, but I do think he's going to make less mistakes than Caleb did last year in a full season.

I'd like to see Williams improve because when he was on at USC, he was the most electrifying player/QB I've seen in a long time. But his pat-pat-patting of the ball and scrambling behind a battered pocket is a good way to turn it over, take bad sacks or land on the IR.

Honest question: Hasn't this part been thoroughly debunked? I thought lots of QBs, or at least a few very successful ones pat the ball plenty.

What do you attribute his sack rate to? According to internet, Williams was the 2nd worse rookie in 15 years in sack rate and pressure to sack rate. If he isn't holding on to the ball too long, what was the reason for this? Bad line? That's part of it, sure. Bad coaching? Okay. Anything else?

Still, sacks are the single biggest reason to be worried about Caleb Williams’ long-term NFL outlook at this point. Anecdotal evidence across this sample backs that up, as the QBs most similar to Williams in sack rate and pressure to sack rate as rookies are Blake Bortles, Bryce Young, Zach Wilson, Justin Fields, Josh Rosen, Kyler Murray, Marcus Mariota, and Jimmy Clausen. There are a lot of busts on that list, only 1-2 long-term starters (depending on how Bryce Young turns out), and no MVP-caliber players.

I asked about him patting the ball, not whether or not he held onto the ball too long.

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

The sacks i can look past because the o-line was horrific last year. I can't tell you how many times the interior of the line just got blown up and there were three guys in the back field before you can blink.
What bothers me the most was him missing the 'easy' throws right over the middle I'm not sure what to chalk that up to. Nerves? Happy Feet? Inexperience? Maybe he's just not good?
We'll find out soon i guess.

The iol were keystone cops out there for the most part in 2024. Some of the stuff they did was downright comical. No excuses this year with the upgrades to the line and Ben Johnson at the helm, though. Caleb must show strong progress.

 

[General Malaise]

I would take Daniels and Maye over Williams TBH.

I'd take Nix over Williams too....maybe even Penix.

If you'd rather have all these dudes than Caleb, I don't think you're bullish on him.

I can be bullish on a stock and like four stocks more than that single one. Right? Both things can be true.

I'm holding on to Caleb in dynasty, but if I'm drafting today, I'm taking Nix and Daniels over him without a second thought. Maye is a maybe and Penix, too early to tell, but I do think he's going to make less mistakes than Caleb did last year in a full season.

I'd like to see Williams improve because when he was on at USC, he was the most electrifying player/QB I've seen in a long time. But his pat-pat-patting of the ball and scrambling behind a battered pocket is a good way to turn it over, take bad sacks or land on the IR.

Honest question: Hasn't this part been thoroughly debunked? I thought lots of QBs, or at least a few very successful ones pat the ball plenty.

What do you attribute his sack rate to? According to internet, Williams was the 2nd worse rookie in 15 years in sack rate and pressure to sack rate. If he isn't holding on to the ball too long, what was the reason for this? Bad line? That's part of it, sure. Bad coaching? Okay. Anything else?

Still, sacks are the single biggest reason to be worried about Caleb Williams’ long-term NFL outlook at this point. Anecdotal evidence across this sample backs that up, as the QBs most similar to Williams in sack rate and pressure to sack rate as rookies are Blake Bortles, Bryce Young, Zach Wilson, Justin Fields, Josh Rosen, Kyler Murray, Marcus Mariota, and Jimmy Clausen. There are a lot of busts on that list, only 1-2 long-term starters (depending on how Bryce Young turns out), and no MVP-caliber players.

I asked about him patting the ball, not whether or not he held onto the ball too long.

Alright, fair enough. He's not Pat Patter back there, just a victim of a bad line, bad coaching and bad luck. 68 sacks. Probably hard to pat the ball when you're horizontal that many times.

 

[VaTerp]

I would take Daniels and Maye over Williams TBH.

I'd take Nix over Williams too....maybe even Penix.

If you'd rather have all these dudes than Caleb, I don't think you're bullish on him.

I can be bullish on a stock and like four stocks more than that single one. Right? Both things can be true.

I'm holding on to Caleb in dynasty, but if I'm drafting today, I'm taking Nix and Daniels over him without a second thought. Maye is a maybe and Penix, too early to tell, but I do think he's going to make less mistakes than Caleb did last year in a full season.

I'd like to see Williams improve because when he was on at USC, he was the most electrifying player/QB I've seen in a long time. But his pat-pat-patting of the ball and scrambling behind a battered pocket is a good way to turn it over, take bad sacks or land on the IR.

Honest question: Hasn't this part been thoroughly debunked? I thought lots of QBs, or at least a few very successful ones pat the ball plenty.

What do you attribute his sack rate to? According to internet, Williams was the 2nd worse rookie in 15 years in sack rate and pressure to sack rate. If he isn't holding on to the ball too long, what was the reason for this? Bad line? That's part of it, sure. Bad coaching? Okay. Anything else?

Still, sacks are the single biggest reason to be worried about Caleb Williams’ long-term NFL outlook at this point. Anecdotal evidence across this sample backs that up, as the QBs most similar to Williams in sack rate and pressure to sack rate as rookies are Blake Bortles, Bryce Young, Zach Wilson, Justin Fields, Josh Rosen, Kyler Murray, Marcus Mariota, and Jimmy Clausen. There are a lot of busts on that list, only 1-2 long-term starters (depending on how Bryce Young turns out), and no MVP-caliber players.

I asked about him patting the ball, not whether or not he held onto the ball too long.

Alright, fair enough. He's not Pat Patter back there, just a victim of a bad line, bad coaching and bad luck. 68 sacks. Probably hard to pat the ball when you're horizontal that many times.

I think the point, that I happen to agree with, is that him patting the ball is a non-issue, His holding the ball too long is the issue. The patting in and of itself has nothing to do with it other than the fact that that's what may choose to do. The problem is he's not making quick enough decisions.

In other words, you can still pat the ball and be a QB who gets that ball out quickly, as has been proven over and over again with many QBs.

 

[Big Nate]

Too much hate for Caleb. Everyone who is against him can't wait to see "I told you so" - hoping he fails.

He's under valued now and has much better coaching. It may take him a bit to learn the offense and get comfortable with the receivers in this new offense. Doesn't mean he sucks - its just a more complex and ultimately better offence than the garbage that was rolled out last year.

Lets give this guy some time and give the coaches some time to implement the full offence. This is new for most everyone *other than Swift*.

 

[darksideofoz]

I thought the main issue with patting the ball is if the timing of patting leading into passing is consistent then the d players know when to try to bat the ball down.

 

[Big Nate]

I thought the main issue with patting the ball is if the timing of patting leading into passing is consistent then the d players know when to try to bat the ball down.

Almost every QB pats the ball. I'm about done with the patting narrative. Tom Brady would tap the ball, Manning taps the ball sometimes and also does a little double clutch type where his hand is off the ball then back on before he throws it.

Non-issue. People have been trying for years to put this on QBs they don't like. This isn't the first or will be the last.

 

[darksideofoz]

I thought the main issue with patting the ball is if the timing of patting leading into passing is consistent then the d players know when to try to bat the ball down.

Almost every QB pats the ball. I'm about done with the patting narrative. Tom Brady would tap the ball, Manning taps the ball sometimes and also does a little double clutch type where his hand is off the ball then back on before he throws it.

Non-issue. People have been trying for years to put this on QBs they don't like. This isn't the first or will be the last.

I understand all of that, but doesn't even touch what I brought up.

 

[Big Nate]

I thought the main issue with patting the ball is if the timing of patting leading into passing is consistent then the d players know when to try to bat the ball down.

Almost every QB pats the ball. I'm about done with the patting narrative. Tom Brady would tap the ball, Manning taps the ball sometimes and also does a little double clutch type where his hand is off the ball then back on before he throws it.

Non-issue. People have been trying for years to put this on QBs they don't like. This isn't the first or will be the last.

I understand all of that, but doesn't even touch what I brought up.

It does bc then Brady and Manning (with his double clutch before throwing) would be in the same boat but they didn't have issues with what you are saying. Non issue.

 

[General Malaise]

I thought the main issue with patting the ball is if the timing of patting leading into passing is consistent then the d players know when to try to bat the ball down.

Almost every QB pats the ball. I'm about done with the patting narrative. Tom Brady would tap the ball, Manning taps the ball sometimes and also does a little double clutch type where his hand is off the ball then back on before he throws it.

Non-issue. People have been trying for years to put this on QBs they don't like. This isn't the first or will be the last.

Fine, ignore the patting thing. Whatever it is, the guy held on to the ball far too long and took way too many sacks. I don't care if he's licking the ball, 68 sacks is David Carr territory and another season like that will be ruinous for his career.

 

[General Malaise]

I thought the main issue with patting the ball is if the timing of patting leading into passing is consistent then the d players know when to try to bat the ball down.

Almost every QB pats the ball. I'm about done with the patting narrative. Tom Brady would tap the ball, Manning taps the ball sometimes and also does a little double clutch type where his hand is off the ball then back on before he throws it.

Non-issue. People have been trying for years to put this on QBs they don't like. This isn't the first or will be the last.

I understand all of that, but doesn't even touch what I brought up.

It does bc then Brady and Manning (with his double clutch before throwing) would be in the same boat but they didn't have issues with what you are saying. Non issue.

Most sacks taken in a season:

Manning 22 (rookie year)
Brady 41 (1st year starter)
Williams 68 (only year of data available)

Only one of those three is a ++ runner and he was sacked 68 times. Maybe Caleb should become Pat Patterson because another season like this and he'll be in the studio with David Carr.

 

[Chaka]

I would take Daniels and Maye over Williams TBH.

I'd take Nix over Williams too....maybe even Penix.

If you'd rather have all these dudes than Caleb, I don't think you're bullish on him.

I can be bullish on a stock and like four stocks more than that single one. Right? Both things can be true.

I'm holding on to Caleb in dynasty, but if I'm drafting today, I'm taking Nix and Daniels over him without a second thought. Maye is a maybe and Penix, too early to tell, but I do think he's going to make less mistakes than Caleb did last year in a full season.

I'd like to see Williams improve because when he was on at USC, he was the most electrifying player/QB I've seen in a long time. But his pat-pat-patting of the ball and scrambling behind a battered pocket is a good way to turn it over, take bad sacks or land on the IR.

Honest question: Hasn't this part been thoroughly debunked? I thought lots of QBs, or at least a few very successful ones pat the ball plenty.

What do you attribute his sack rate to? According to internet, Williams was the 2nd worse rookie in 15 years in sack rate and pressure to sack rate. If he isn't holding on to the ball too long, what was the reason for this? Bad line? That's part of it, sure. Bad coaching? Okay. Anything else?

Still, sacks are the single biggest reason to be worried about Caleb Williams’ long-term NFL outlook at this point. Anecdotal evidence across this sample backs that up, as the QBs most similar to Williams in sack rate and pressure to sack rate as rookies are Blake Bortles, Bryce Young, Zach Wilson, Justin Fields, Josh Rosen, Kyler Murray, Marcus Mariota, and Jimmy Clausen. There are a lot of busts on that list, only 1-2 long-term starters (depending on how Bryce Young turns out), and no MVP-caliber players.

I asked about him patting the ball, not whether or not he held onto the ball too long.

Alright, fair enough. He's not Pat Patter back there, just a victim of a bad line, bad coaching and bad luck. 68 sacks. Probably hard to pat the ball when you're horizontal that many times.

What's up with the misrepresentation, GM? I didn't call him a victim of anything. He did have three OCs last year, read into it what you will. Heck call him a coach killer if you think that's true. But don't argue against something I did not say, please.

All I said is I remember reading that patting the ball is a non issue and many great QBs do it.

Yeesh.

 

[General Malaise]

I would take Daniels and Maye over Williams TBH.

I'd take Nix over Williams too....maybe even Penix.

If you'd rather have all these dudes than Caleb, I don't think you're bullish on him.

I can be bullish on a stock and like four stocks more than that single one. Right? Both things can be true.

I'm holding on to Caleb in dynasty, but if I'm drafting today, I'm taking Nix and Daniels over him without a second thought. Maye is a maybe and Penix, too early to tell, but I do think he's going to make less mistakes than Caleb did last year in a full season.

I'd like to see Williams improve because when he was on at USC, he was the most electrifying player/QB I've seen in a long time. But his pat-pat-patting of the ball and scrambling behind a battered pocket is a good way to turn it over, take bad sacks or land on the IR.

Honest question: Hasn't this part been thoroughly debunked? I thought lots of QBs, or at least a few very successful ones pat the ball plenty.

What do you attribute his sack rate to? According to internet, Williams was the 2nd worse rookie in 15 years in sack rate and pressure to sack rate. If he isn't holding on to the ball too long, what was the reason for this? Bad line? That's part of it, sure. Bad coaching? Okay. Anything else?

Still, sacks are the single biggest reason to be worried about Caleb Williams’ long-term NFL outlook at this point. Anecdotal evidence across this sample backs that up, as the QBs most similar to Williams in sack rate and pressure to sack rate as rookies are Blake Bortles, Bryce Young, Zach Wilson, Justin Fields, Josh Rosen, Kyler Murray, Marcus Mariota, and Jimmy Clausen. There are a lot of busts on that list, only 1-2 long-term starters (depending on how Bryce Young turns out), and no MVP-caliber players.

I asked about him patting the ball, not whether or not he held onto the ball too long.

Alright, fair enough. He's not Pat Patter back there, just a victim of a bad line, bad coaching and bad luck. 68 sacks. Probably hard to pat the ball when you're horizontal that many times.

What's up with the misrepresentation, GM? I didn't call him a victim of anything. He did have three OCs last year, read into it what you will. Heck call him a coach killer if you think that's true. But don't argue against something I did not say, please.

All I said is I remember reading that patting the ball is a non issue and many great QBs do it.

Yeesh.

Settle down.

Why do you think he was sacked 68 times?

 

[Chaka]

I would take Daniels and Maye over Williams TBH.

I'd take Nix over Williams too....maybe even Penix.

If you'd rather have all these dudes than Caleb, I don't think you're bullish on him.

I can be bullish on a stock and like four stocks more than that single one. Right? Both things can be true.

I'm holding on to Caleb in dynasty, but if I'm drafting today, I'm taking Nix and Daniels over him without a second thought. Maye is a maybe and Penix, too early to tell, but I do think he's going to make less mistakes than Caleb did last year in a full season.

I'd like to see Williams improve because when he was on at USC, he was the most electrifying player/QB I've seen in a long time. But his pat-pat-patting of the ball and scrambling behind a battered pocket is a good way to turn it over, take bad sacks or land on the IR.

Honest question: Hasn't this part been thoroughly debunked? I thought lots of QBs, or at least a few very successful ones pat the ball plenty.

What do you attribute his sack rate to? According to internet, Williams was the 2nd worse rookie in 15 years in sack rate and pressure to sack rate. If he isn't holding on to the ball too long, what was the reason for this? Bad line? That's part of it, sure. Bad coaching? Okay. Anything else?

Still, sacks are the single biggest reason to be worried about Caleb Williams’ long-term NFL outlook at this point. Anecdotal evidence across this sample backs that up, as the QBs most similar to Williams in sack rate and pressure to sack rate as rookies are Blake Bortles, Bryce Young, Zach Wilson, Justin Fields, Josh Rosen, Kyler Murray, Marcus Mariota, and Jimmy Clausen. There are a lot of busts on that list, only 1-2 long-term starters (depending on how Bryce Young turns out), and no MVP-caliber players.

I asked about him patting the ball, not whether or not he held onto the ball too long.

Alright, fair enough. He's not Pat Patter back there, just a victim of a bad line, bad coaching and bad luck. 68 sacks. Probably hard to pat the ball when you're horizontal that many times.

What's up with the misrepresentation, GM? I didn't call him a victim of anything. He did have three OCs last year, read into it what you will. Heck call him a coach killer if you think that's true. But don't argue against something I did not say, please.

All I said is I remember reading that patting the ball is a non issue and many great QBs do it.

Yeesh.

Settle down.

Why do you think he was sacked 68 times?

Because, Satan.

 

[General Malaise]

I would take Daniels and Maye over Williams TBH.

I'd take Nix over Williams too....maybe even Penix.

If you'd rather have all these dudes than Caleb, I don't think you're bullish on him.

I can be bullish on a stock and like four stocks more than that single one. Right? Both things can be true.

I'm holding on to Caleb in dynasty, but if I'm drafting today, I'm taking Nix and Daniels over him without a second thought. Maye is a maybe and Penix, too early to tell, but I do think he's going to make less mistakes than Caleb did last year in a full season.

I'd like to see Williams improve because when he was on at USC, he was the most electrifying player/QB I've seen in a long time. But his pat-pat-patting of the ball and scrambling behind a battered pocket is a good way to turn it over, take bad sacks or land on the IR.

Honest question: Hasn't this part been thoroughly debunked? I thought lots of QBs, or at least a few very successful ones pat the ball plenty.

What do you attribute his sack rate to? According to internet, Williams was the 2nd worse rookie in 15 years in sack rate and pressure to sack rate. If he isn't holding on to the ball too long, what was the reason for this? Bad line? That's part of it, sure. Bad coaching? Okay. Anything else?

Still, sacks are the single biggest reason to be worried about Caleb Williams’ long-term NFL outlook at this point. Anecdotal evidence across this sample backs that up, as the QBs most similar to Williams in sack rate and pressure to sack rate as rookies are Blake Bortles, Bryce Young, Zach Wilson, Justin Fields, Josh Rosen, Kyler Murray, Marcus Mariota, and Jimmy Clausen. There are a lot of busts on that list, only 1-2 long-term starters (depending on how Bryce Young turns out), and no MVP-caliber players.

I asked about him patting the ball, not whether or not he held onto the ball too long.

Alright, fair enough. He's not Pat Patter back there, just a victim of a bad line, bad coaching and bad luck. 68 sacks. Probably hard to pat the ball when you're horizontal that many times.

What's up with the misrepresentation, GM? I didn't call him a victim of anything. He did have three OCs last year, read into it what you will. Heck call him a coach killer if you think that's true. But don't argue against something I did not say, please.

All I said is I remember reading that patting the ball is a non issue and many great QBs do it.

Yeesh.

Settle down.

Why do you think he was sacked 68 times?

Because, Satan.

Wind

 

[massraider]

Almost every QB pats the ball

This. All day.

 

[General Malaise]

Almost every QB pats the ball

This. All day.

Great, we've solved the riddle of why he wasn't sacked 68 times last year. Very clear it wasn't patting the ball. So explain it.

 

[urbanhack]

Almost every QB pats the ball

This. All day.

Great, we've solved the riddle of why he wasn't sacked 68 times last year. Very clear it wasn't patting the ball. So explain it.

He was a rookie and his O line was crap and bad coaching?

All that has changed.

 

[cdclopper]

I would take Daniels and Maye over Williams TBH.

I'd take Nix over Williams too....maybe even Penix.

If you'd rather have all these dudes than Caleb, I don't think you're bullish on him.

I can be bullish on a stock and like four stocks more than that single one. Right? Both things can be true.

I'm holding on to Caleb in dynasty, but if I'm drafting today, I'm taking Nix and Daniels over him without a second thought. Maye is a maybe and Penix, too early to tell, but I do think he's going to make less mistakes than Caleb did last year in a full season.

I'd like to see Williams improve because when he was on at USC, he was the most electrifying player/QB I've seen in a long time. But his pat-pat-patting of the ball and scrambling behind a battered pocket is a good way to turn it over, take bad sacks or land on the IR.

Honest question: Hasn't this part been thoroughly debunked? I thought lots of QBs, or at least a few very successful ones pat the ball plenty.

What do you attribute his sack rate to? According to internet, Williams was the 2nd worse rookie in 15 years in sack rate and pressure to sack rate. If he isn't holding on to the ball too long, what was the reason for this? Bad line? That's part of it, sure. Bad coaching? Okay. Anything else?

Still, sacks are the single biggest reason to be worried about Caleb Williams’ long-term NFL outlook at this point. Anecdotal evidence across this sample backs that up, as the QBs most similar to Williams in sack rate and pressure to sack rate as rookies are Blake Bortles, Bryce Young, Zach Wilson, Justin Fields, Josh Rosen, Kyler Murray, Marcus Mariota, and Jimmy Clausen. There are a lot of busts on that list, only 1-2 long-term starters (depending on how Bryce Young turns out), and no MVP-caliber players.

I asked about him patting the ball, not whether or not he held onto the ball too long.

Alright, fair enough. He's not Pat Patter back there, just a victim of a bad line, bad coaching and bad luck. 68 sacks. Probably hard to pat the ball when you're horizontal that many times.

What's up with the misrepresentation, GM? I didn't call him a victim of anything. He did have three OCs last year, read into it what you will. Heck call him a coach killer if you think that's true. But don't argue against something I did not say, please.

All I said is I remember reading that patting the ball is a non issue and many great QBs do it.

Yeesh.

Settle down.

Why do you think he was sacked 68 times?

It was the head coaches fault.

 

[Chaka]

Almost every QB pats the ball

This. All day.

Great, we've solved the riddle of why he wasn't sacked 68 times last year. Very clear it wasn't patting the ball. So explain it.

It has been. Quite a few times actually. Not sure what you're looking for but I am sure this won't be it.

Let's start with; he held onto the ball too long trying to extend plays. I don't want to pay for the data but a little digging shows he extended plays on par with Lamar and Hurts for pocket time until throw, at the same time he was in the bottom three in snap time until pressure. So he was pressured much sooner than virtually all QBs and he managed to extend plays among the longest in the league.

He tried too hard to extend plays where he should have ditched the ball, which led to multiple sacks.

Yup. That's it, entirely. All 68 of his sacks, right there. Clearly all on him.

His offensive line was great, the scheme was great, having three OCs in one season means he's a coach killer. Having to watch film on his own means nobody liked him enough to sit in a room with him that long. He was probably playing Tecmo Super Bowl on line with Kyler Murray instead of watching film. I mean, no one else was around to know. The ball got stuck to his nail polish slowing the release. His nail polish glinted in the sun a micro-second before release at exactly the same time on every throw allowing the D-Line to anticipate him and sack him more often. His nail polish was often wet and dripped on the field causing him to slip. He actually wears a dress under his jersey and occasionally the hem went below his pants leg and got caught in his cleats and he tripped over it. He keeps a second bluetooth headset in his helmet and often calls his agent post snap to talk about the implications of the fifth year option. He's just too emotional and felt bad for other teams so he spotted them some plays so they would feel better.

That covers most of it. This covers the rest.

 

[massraider]

Great, we've solved the riddle of why he wasn't sacked 68 times last year. Very clear it wasn't patting the ball. So explain it.

It can't be all the above?

• Could have been his senior year in college. Inexperience
• Doo doo coaching
• Bad interior line
• Held the ball too long because he got away with that in college
• Rather take a sack than risk a pick for a bad team? (aka The Ken O'Brien)

I really didn't watch many Bears full games, maybe 4?, and a good amount of college. And he put a lot of special on tape in college. Lot of NFL throws.

And if I recall, he held the ball a long time in college. Why? Probably because he got away with it. Much like Shedeur bailing out backwards. If so, that's the kind of bad habit I would expect him to have. Gotta cut down the hero ball, etc. Common story with these athletic guys now, right? Clearly fixable.

But once that last staff was fired, the stories that came out made it seem like a notable clown show there. Much worse than your run of the mill fired staff.

So at that age, two years younger than Daniels with a wasted year in a disaster situation, I'm still pretty much of the same opinion about him. I love his chances to be really special.

 

[massraider]

Let's give Caleb Williams as much rope and benefit of the doubt as Bryce Young, how that be

 

[Chaka]

Let's give Caleb Williams as much rope and benefit of the doubt as Bryce Young, how that be

I think Caleb Williams is one Bryce Young sitting on the shoulders of another Bryce Young stuffed in a #18 Bears jersey.

 

[massraider]

It was really telling to me, the DJ Moore situation. End of last year, he was malcontent, no effort, we heard about his 'bad body language' all spring. Pure Misery.

3 weeks into training camp this year, and the Bears are designing rushing plays for him. They love him.

To me, that was a professional recognizing what a mess the team was, and handling it badly. But Moore has been a great pro on some bad teams, but he mailed it in this time? Shows how bad the last crew was.
Not to defend DJ Moore, he was unprofessional and yada yada yada. But I believe it's speaks to how bad the staff was, and the team basically giving Moore a mulligan, acknowledging they let down the players.

 

[General Malaise]

This page is going into my bookmarks.

Almost every QB pats the ball

This. All day.

Great, we've solved the riddle of why he wasn't sacked 68 times last year. Very clear it wasn't patting the ball. So explain it.

It has been. Quite a few times actually. Not sure what you're looking for but I am sure this won't be it.

Let's start with; he held onto the ball too long trying to extend plays. I don't want to pay for the data but a little digging shows he extended plays on par with Lamar and Hurts for pocket time until throw, at the same time he was in the bottom three in snap time until pressure. So he was pressured much sooner than virtually all QBs and he managed to extend plays among the longest in the league.

He tried too hard to extend plays where he should have ditched the ball, which led to multiple sacks.

Yup. That's it, entirely. All 68 of his sacks, right there. Clearly all on him.

His offensive line was great, the scheme was great, having three OCs in one season means he's a coach killer. Having to watch film on his own means nobody liked him enough to sit in a room with him that long. He was probably playing Tecmo Super Bowl on line with Kyler Murray instead of watching film. I mean, no one else was around to know. The ball got stuck to his nail polish slowing the release. His nail polish glinted in the sun a micro-second before release at exactly the same time on every throw allowing the D-Line to anticipate him and sack him more often. His nail polish was often wet and dripped on the field causing him to slip. He actually wears a dress under his jersey and occasionally the hem went below his pants leg and got caught in his cleats and he tripped over it. He keeps a second bluetooth headset in his helmet and often calls his agent post snap to talk about the implications of the fifth year option. He's just too emotional and felt bad for other teams so he spotted them some plays so they would feel better.

That covers most of it. This covers the rest.

Well played.

I am rooting for him but wow.....the excuses in here stink like all the buttholes in Chicago. If he doesn't show improvement, this page right here is going to he a prime source of comic material.

 

[General Malaise]

It was really telling to me, the DJ Moore situation. End of last year, he was malcontent, no effort, we heard about his 'bad body language' all spring. Pure Misery.

3 weeks into training camp this year, and the Bears are designing rushing plays for him. They love him.

To me, that was a professional recognizing what a mess the team was, and handling it badly. But Moore has been a great pro on some bad teams, but he mailed it in this time? Shows how bad the last crew was.
Not to defend DJ Moore, he was unprofessional and yada yada yada. But I believe it's speaks to how bad the staff was, and the team basically giving Moore a mulligan, acknowledging they let down the players.

Why does the GM still have a job then?

 

[General Malaise]

The Athletic was rather unkind to him ranking him 6th based off 8 anonymous NFL talent evaluators. They used the following criteria: Football character, physical and mental toughness, poise/processing.

JJ
Daniels
Maye
Penix
Nix
Williams

1st post in this thread.....don't yell at me, take it up with The Athletic, please.

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

It was really telling to me, the DJ Moore situation. End of last year, he was malcontent, no effort, we heard about his 'bad body language' all spring. Pure Misery.

3 weeks into training camp this year, and the Bears are designing rushing plays for him. They love him.

To me, that was a professional recognizing what a mess the team was, and handling it badly. But Moore has been a great pro on some bad teams, but he mailed it in this time? Shows how bad the last crew was.
Not to defend DJ Moore, he was unprofessional and yada yada yada. But I believe it's speaks to how bad the staff was, and the team basically giving Moore a mulligan, acknowledging they let down the players.

Why does the GM still have a job then?

Because George McCaskey meddles in the GM's job way too often. Management "supported" Eberflus because they wanted some semblance of stability during the rebuild. Behind the scenes, I'm not sure Poles had much of a choice.

 

[General Malaise]

I just think if you're going to take a franchise QB #1 overall it is imperative that he has an offense minded HC. Absent that, you've got to find him an OC that can relate to the player, a la Kliff Kingsbury in DC. Prefect coach for a rookie QB to learn from while the HC runs the defense/operations. Bo Nix was hand selected by Payton, an offensive power brain. I think the biggest mistake Chicago made wasn't drafting Williams - I still think he's got STAR written all over him - it was pairing him up with a defensive coach and an OC who wasn't highly regarded coming in.

The Carr comparisons aren't perfect though I do see an erosion of confidence as a problem. Carr wasn't mobile, he just sat back there and got abused by an expansion team's OL. What Caleb is doing is trying to buy time the way he did at USC and while he could get away with it in college, his WRs aren't going to magically get open with more time. The dancing around in the backfield is a habit his next coaches are going to have to break him out of because say what you will, the kid is TOUGH but there's only so many hits his body will be able to take. See Newton, Cam.

2nd post in this thread.

I stand by it 10 months later.

 

[Ray_T]

You'd take mercurial, moody and all the family baggage over the magnanimous, gregarious, fun-loving Daniels?

Stated like that, of course you take Daniels. More importantly, after what we saw last season on the field, of course you take Daniels and that was the only point you needed to make.

On the personality front, the reality is we have no real idea who these guys are behind the scenes.

FWIW 1) Caleb seemed like a good dude on Hard Knocks. & 2) trying to engineer his landing spot is probably really appreciated in the locker room.

Gonna go out on a limb and say that all players would like much more say in where they get to play.

Dude......

If you asked two players in 2023 which organization they'd rather play for, Chicago or Washington, how many are picking the latter? That franchise was an abortion since Joe Gibbs left the 2nd time.

I like Caleb Williams quite a bit but his displayed personality underscores many troubling factors. Factor in his over bearing father and it is an easy decision for me to make on who I prefer to lead my franchise.

I honestly dont think Caleb did poorly. he just didnt light it up as a rookie like everyone was expecting. he played like a rookie because.... he was a rookie.

no disgrace in it. threw 3x more TD than he had INT. not many rookies can say that. and he did it while playing with an O line that was like swiss cheese.

if his decision making improves by .1 of a second and if his line improves even moderately I can see him having a fairly decent year.

I am not predicting top 5 but top 10-12 is very much within reach.

I wouldnt go betting against this kid yet. I fully acknowledge the Bears have not historically done a good job in developing young QB but I think this new OC they brought over from Detroit will get the job done for them.

 

[General Malaise]

You'd take mercurial, moody and all the family baggage over the magnanimous, gregarious, fun-loving Daniels?

Stated like that, of course you take Daniels. More importantly, after what we saw last season on the field, of course you take Daniels and that was the only point you needed to make.

On the personality front, the reality is we have no real idea who these guys are behind the scenes.

FWIW 1) Caleb seemed like a good dude on Hard Knocks. & 2) trying to engineer his landing spot is probably really appreciated in the locker room.

Gonna go out on a limb and say that all players would like much more say in where they get to play.

Dude......

If you asked two players in 2023 which organization they'd rather play for, Chicago or Washington, how many are picking the latter? That franchise was an abortion since Joe Gibbs left the 2nd time.

I like Caleb Williams quite a bit but his displayed personality underscores many troubling factors. Factor in his over bearing father and it is an easy decision for me to make on who I prefer to lead my franchise.

I honestly dont think Caleb did poorly. he just didnt light it up as a rookie like everyone was expecting. he played like a rookie because.... he was a rookie.

no disgrace in it. threw 3x more TD than he had INT. not many rookies can say that. and he did it while playing with an O line that was like swiss cheese.

if his decision making improves by .1 of a second and if his line improves even moderately I can see him having a fairly decent year.

I am not predicting top 5 but top 10-12 is very much within reach.

I wouldnt go betting against this kid yet. I fully acknowledge the Bears have not historically done a good job in developing young QB but I think this new OC they brought over from Detroit will get the job done for them.

If he cuts down on the sack rate and improves on his deep throws (he was awful there last year) he will make a major leap forward. But he has a lot of work to do and hopefully, he's done it.

 

[Chaka]

You'd take mercurial, moody and all the family baggage over the magnanimous, gregarious, fun-loving Daniels?

Stated like that, of course you take Daniels. More importantly, after what we saw last season on the field, of course you take Daniels and that was the only point you needed to make.

On the personality front, the reality is we have no real idea who these guys are behind the scenes.

FWIW 1) Caleb seemed like a good dude on Hard Knocks. & 2) trying to engineer his landing spot is probably really appreciated in the locker room.

Gonna go out on a limb and say that all players would like much more say in where they get to play.

Dude......

If you asked two players in 2023 which organization they'd rather play for, Chicago or Washington, how many are picking the latter? That franchise was an abortion since Joe Gibbs left the 2nd time.

I like Caleb Williams quite a bit but his displayed personality underscores many troubling factors. Factor in his over bearing father and it is an easy decision for me to make on who I prefer to lead my franchise.

I honestly dont think Caleb did poorly. he just didnt light it up as a rookie like everyone was expecting. he played like a rookie because.... he was a rookie.

no disgrace in it. threw 3x more TD than he had INT. not many rookies can say that. and he did it while playing with an O line that was like swiss cheese.

if his decision making improves by .1 of a second and if his line improves even moderately I can see him having a fairly decent year.

I am not predicting top 5 but top 10-12 is very much within reach.

I wouldnt go betting against this kid yet. I fully acknowledge the Bears have not historically done a good job in developing young QB but I think this new OC they brought over from Detroit will get the job done for them.

If he cuts down on the sack rate and improves on his deep throws (he was awful there last year) he will make a major leap forward. But he has a lot of work to do and hopefully, he's done it.

IDK I'm not optimistic about his prospects this year. I heard he got a couple piercings this off-season. I'm thinking 72 sacks now.

 

[LawFitz]

Snark all you want, but GM's point is the one I made earlier.

He better sack up and avoid the sacks this year, b/c I don't think he has the mental/emotional fortitude to withstand what's coming if he doesn't.

Can Caleb do it? Maybe. If he doesn't, he won't have any more excuses left, that is for sure. Maybe.

P.S. I don't like Bryce Bung either. #FTR

 

[General Malaise]

You'd take mercurial, moody and all the family baggage over the magnanimous, gregarious, fun-loving Daniels?

Stated like that, of course you take Daniels. More importantly, after what we saw last season on the field, of course you take Daniels and that was the only point you needed to make.

On the personality front, the reality is we have no real idea who these guys are behind the scenes.

FWIW 1) Caleb seemed like a good dude on Hard Knocks. & 2) trying to engineer his landing spot is probably really appreciated in the locker room.

Gonna go out on a limb and say that all players would like much more say in where they get to play.

Dude......

If you asked two players in 2023 which organization they'd rather play for, Chicago or Washington, how many are picking the latter? That franchise was an abortion since Joe Gibbs left the 2nd time.

I like Caleb Williams quite a bit but his displayed personality underscores many troubling factors. Factor in his over bearing father and it is an easy decision for me to make on who I prefer to lead my franchise.

I honestly dont think Caleb did poorly. he just didnt light it up as a rookie like everyone was expecting. he played like a rookie because.... he was a rookie.

no disgrace in it. threw 3x more TD than he had INT. not many rookies can say that. and he did it while playing with an O line that was like swiss cheese.

if his decision making improves by .1 of a second and if his line improves even moderately I can see him having a fairly decent year.

I am not predicting top 5 but top 10-12 is very much within reach.

I wouldnt go betting against this kid yet. I fully acknowledge the Bears have not historically done a good job in developing young QB but I think this new OC they brought over from Detroit will get the job done for them.

If he cuts down on the sack rate and improves on his deep throws (he was awful there last year) he will make a major leap forward. But he has a lot of work to do and hopefully, he's done it.

IDK I'm not optimistic about his prospects this year. I heard he got a couple piercings this off-season. I'm thinking 72 sacks now.

I like the fingernail painting.

 

[Big Nate]

I would take Daniels and Maye over Williams TBH.

I'd take Nix over Williams too....maybe even Penix.

If you'd rather have all these dudes than Caleb, I don't think you're bullish on him.

I can be bullish on a stock and like four stocks more than that single one. Right? Both things can be true.

I'm holding on to Caleb in dynasty, but if I'm drafting today, I'm taking Nix and Daniels over him without a second thought. Maye is a maybe and Penix, too early to tell, but I do think he's going to make less mistakes than Caleb did last year in a full season.

I'd like to see Williams improve because when he was on at USC, he was the most electrifying player/QB I've seen in a long time. But his pat-pat-patting of the ball and scrambling behind a battered pocket is a good way to turn it over, take bad sacks or land on the IR.

Honest question: Hasn't this part been thoroughly debunked? I thought lots of QBs, or at least a few very successful ones pat the ball plenty.

What do you attribute his sack rate to? According to internet, Williams was the 2nd worse rookie in 15 years in sack rate and pressure to sack rate. If he isn't holding on to the ball too long, what was the reason for this? Bad line? That's part of it, sure. Bad coaching? Okay. Anything else?

Still, sacks are the single biggest reason to be worried about Caleb Williams’ long-term NFL outlook at this point. Anecdotal evidence across this sample backs that up, as the QBs most similar to Williams in sack rate and pressure to sack rate as rookies are Blake Bortles, Bryce Young, Zach Wilson, Justin Fields, Josh Rosen, Kyler Murray, Marcus Mariota, and Jimmy Clausen. There are a lot of busts on that list, only 1-2 long-term starters (depending on how Bryce Young turns out), and no MVP-caliber players.

I asked about him patting the ball, not whether or not he held onto the ball too long.

Alright, fair enough. He's not Pat Patter back there, just a victim of a bad line, bad coaching and bad luck. 68 sacks. Probably hard to pat the ball when you're horizontal that many times.

What's up with the misrepresentation, GM? I didn't call him a victim of anything. He did have three OCs last year, read into it what you will. Heck call him a coach killer if you think that's true. But don't argue against something I did not say, please.

All I said is I remember reading that patting the ball is a non issue and many great QBs do it.

Yeesh.

Settle down.

Why do you think he was sacked 68 times?

Because he held the ball too long. Not patting. Also his coaching sucked, the team wasn't great. The WRs and Caleb were not given timing routes, when to break on their routes and how many step drop each play was to be. It led to a TON of sacks.

Once the coaches got fired things improved down the stretch. I'd bet he takes less sacks this year.

Imagine operating an offense where the receivers and QB don't know the timing. DJ Moore was pissed last year too - why? Because of the fricken play calling and crappy coaching. He was done too.