QB Caleb Williams, CHI (8 Viewers)

[Down Under]

… I wish everyone would leave him alone for a minute.

Quick! Someone DM Cara Cunningham!!!

What’s the reference here?

Ok I got it now. I hope we’re on the same page.

… just leave the boy alone and let him develop

Kidding aside: scrutiny is part of the job. It's a really big part.

No one questions his physical tools, at least no one credible, but the mental makeup needs to be there and I'm not sure Caleb has it.

Particularly because he is starting to look like a player who was under coached for his entire career and made it on raw talent. He also may need a lot of work on a the fundamental aspects of his game.

The "guy" wears makeup and women's clothing. I'm not sure he has the mental makeup (see what I did there?) to absorb all the ridicule the keyboard bullies will constantly throw his way. Maybe he does, I don't know. I didn't like him coming out of college. I took over a dynasty team that had him on it and just traded him for Purdy, Doubs, and a 2026 3rd (salary cap league and I needed WR badly). I just don't believe in his mental toughness. Obviously others do. For Chicago's sake, I hope he proves me wrong. Time will tell.

I didn't know that. Learn something new every day.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.
-Jerry Seinfeld

I'm not believing this without proof. All I know is that he supposedly painted his nails once and I'm not sure there's proof of that either. Tired of people just making stuff up. Let me guess, you're not a Bears fan.

No, the fact that he paints his nails is well established. His mother, I believe did it as her job and it was a bonding thing between them since he was a child.

Honestly, the why of it shouldn't matter. It shouldn't even be a topic of discussion because it's entirely irrelevant.

So, anyone who mocks it is kind of a tool.

Ok on the nails, thanks for the context. I just think he's FOS on the rest, and I called him out on it.

 

[pinkstapler]

Member when Hurts was being criticized by the media and twitter "experts" for NOT throwing an interception all through camp last year? I member....

Not wishing away the last month of summer, but man... I tell myself "just scroll past the nonsense" but I worry my finger might develop tendonitis in the process lol.

I won't have Caleb on many fantasy teams this year but it's primarily because of his ADP. For my money, gimme Drake Maye two rounds later or TLaw four rounds later. I'm going to lump this most recent Caleb has a terrible drill in with the other 15 articles showing/outright stating that Ben Johnson is currently putting this entire organization through the ringer. Rather than trying to build these guys up and give them confidence, it appears he's decided the entire culture there is so bad he's going the opposite route. Tear everything down, no one is owed anything, you are all starting from 0, fail fail again, and "welcome to reality". From reports, he's putting these guys in scenarios they are going to be running into in November, not September. We'll see if it pays off. I imagine Ben Johnson's plans to turn this organization around don't have a timeline constrained to one season though, much to all the fantasy owners invested in Bears player's dismay.

 

[Chaka]

… I wish everyone would leave him alone for a minute.

Quick! Someone DM Cara Cunningham!!!

What’s the reference here?

Ok I got it now. I hope we’re on the same page.

… just leave the boy alone and let him develop

Kidding aside: scrutiny is part of the job. It's a really big part.

No one questions his physical tools, at least no one credible, but the mental makeup needs to be there and I'm not sure Caleb has it.

Particularly because he is starting to look like a player who was under coached for his entire career and made it on raw talent. He also may need a lot of work on a the fundamental aspects of his game.

The "guy" wears makeup and women's clothing. I'm not sure he has the mental makeup (see what I did there?) to absorb all the ridicule the keyboard bullies will constantly throw his way. Maybe he does, I don't know. I didn't like him coming out of college. I took over a dynasty team that had him on it and just traded him for Purdy, Doubs, and a 2026 3rd (salary cap league and I needed WR badly). I just don't believe in his mental toughness. Obviously others do. For Chicago's sake, I hope he proves me wrong. Time will tell.

I didn't know that. Learn something new every day.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.
-Jerry Seinfeld

I'm not believing this without proof. All I know is that he supposedly painted his nails once and I'm not sure there's proof of that either. Tired of people just making stuff up. Let me guess, you're not a Bears fan.

No, the fact that he paints his nails is well established. His mother, I believe did it as her job and it was a bonding thing between them since he was a child.

Honestly, the why of it shouldn't matter. It shouldn't even be a topic of discussion because it's entirely irrelevant.

So, anyone who mocks it is kind of a tool.

Ok on the nails, thanks for the context. I just think he's FOS on the rest, and I called him out on it.

What is FOS?

And I questioned if Caleb has the mental make up to be a great NFL QB. I'm not saying for people to not be critical, just pointing out the nail thing is a non issue in that regard.

And I would bet that many, if not most (all?) NFL QBs take great care of their hands, including manicures and clear coats.

 

[pinkstapler]

… I wish everyone would leave him alone for a minute.

Quick! Someone DM Cara Cunningham!!!

What’s the reference here?

Ok I got it now. I hope we’re on the same page.

… just leave the boy alone and let him develop

Kidding aside: scrutiny is part of the job. It's a really big part.

No one questions his physical tools, at least no one credible, but the mental makeup needs to be there and I'm not sure Caleb has it.

Particularly because he is starting to look like a player who was under coached for his entire career and made it on raw talent. He also may need a lot of work on a the fundamental aspects of his game.

The "guy" wears makeup and women's clothing. I'm not sure he has the mental makeup (see what I did there?) to absorb all the ridicule the keyboard bullies will constantly throw his way. Maybe he does, I don't know. I didn't like him coming out of college. I took over a dynasty team that had him on it and just traded him for Purdy, Doubs, and a 2026 3rd (salary cap league and I needed WR badly). I just don't believe in his mental toughness. Obviously others do. For Chicago's sake, I hope he proves me wrong. Time will tell.

I didn't know that. Learn something new every day.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.
-Jerry Seinfeld

I'm not believing this without proof. All I know is that he supposedly painted his nails once and I'm not sure there's proof of that either. Tired of people just making stuff up. Let me guess, you're not a Bears fan.

No, the fact that he paints his nails is well established. His mother, I believe did it as her job and it was a bonding thing between them since he was a child.

Honestly, the why of it shouldn't matter. It shouldn't even be a topic of discussion because it's entirely irrelevant.

So, anyone who mocks it is kind of a tool.

Ok on the nails, thanks for the context. I just think he's FOS on the rest, and I called him out on it.

What is FOS?

And I questioned if Caleb has the mental make up to be a great NFL QB. I'm not saying for people to not be critical, just pointing out the nail thing is a non issue in that regard.

And I would bet that many, if not most (all?) NFL QBs take great care of their hands, including manicures and clear coats.

I believe it stands for Full Of.... unfounded claimS. Or something like that.

As an aside, fun story: I once let my gf in college convince me to get a pedi with her and they applied a clear coat on my toes. I was too lost in the free champagne to take much notice. I went on to have several other girls on campus make comments about how nice my feet looked the next week or so. Felt awkward the first time it was noticed and commented on, but then I started kinda vibing with it and feeling good about myself. After telling my gf about how many nice comments I was getting from other girls (this was my youthful mistake haha), I was never invited to get a pedi again.

 

[JohnnyU]

… I wish everyone would leave him alone for a minute.

Quick! Someone DM Cara Cunningham!!!

What’s the reference here?

Ok I got it now. I hope we’re on the same page.

… just leave the boy alone and let him develop

Kidding aside: scrutiny is part of the job. It's a really big part.

No one questions his physical tools, at least no one credible, but the mental makeup needs to be there and I'm not sure Caleb has it.

Particularly because he is starting to look like a player who was under coached for his entire career and made it on raw talent. He also may need a lot of work on a the fundamental aspects of his game.

The "guy" wears makeup and women's clothing. I'm not sure he has the mental makeup (see what I did there?) to absorb all the ridicule the keyboard bullies will constantly throw his way. Maybe he does, I don't know. I didn't like him coming out of college. I took over a dynasty team that had him on it and just traded him for Purdy, Doubs, and a 2026 3rd (salary cap league and I needed WR badly). I just don't believe in his mental toughness. Obviously others do. For Chicago's sake, I hope he proves me wrong. Time will tell.

I didn't know that. Learn something new every day.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.
-Jerry Seinfeld

I'm not believing this without proof. All I know is that he supposedly painted his nails once and I'm not sure there's proof of that either. Tired of people just making stuff up. Let me guess, you're not a Bears fan.

No, the fact that he paints his nails is well established. His mother, I believe did it as her job and it was a bonding thing between them since he was a child.

Honestly, the why of it shouldn't matter. It shouldn't even be a topic of discussion because it's entirely irrelevant.

So, anyone who mocks it is kind of a tool.

Ok on the nails, thanks for the context. I just think he's FOS on the rest, and I called him out on it.

What is FOS?

And I questioned if Caleb has the mental make up to be a great NFL QB. I'm not saying for people to not be critical, just pointing out the nail thing is a non issue in that regard.

And I would bet that many, if not most (all?) NFL QBs take great care of their hands, including manicures and clear coats.

I believe it stands for Full Of.... unfounded claimS. Or something like that.

As an aside, fun story: I once let my gf in college convince me to get a pedi with her and they applied a clear coat on my toes. I was too lost in the free champagne to take much notice. I went on to have several other girls on campus make comments about how nice my feet looked the next week or so. Felt awkward the first time it was noticed and commented on, but then I started kinda vibing with it and feeling good about myself. After telling my gf about how many nice comments I was getting from other girls (this was my youthful mistake haha), I was never invited to get a pedi again.

My wife says I have Fred Flintstone feet.

 

[warpig33]

… I wish everyone would leave him alone for a minute.

Quick! Someone DM Cara Cunningham!!!

What’s the reference here?

Ok I got it now. I hope we’re on the same page.

… just leave the boy alone and let him develop

Kidding aside: scrutiny is part of the job. It's a really big part.

No one questions his physical tools, at least no one credible, but the mental makeup needs to be there and I'm not sure Caleb has it.

Particularly because he is starting to look like a player who was under coached for his entire career and made it on raw talent. He also may need a lot of work on a the fundamental aspects of his game.

The "guy" wears makeup and women's clothing. I'm not sure he has the mental makeup (see what I did there?) to absorb all the ridicule the keyboard bullies will constantly throw his way. Maybe he does, I don't know. I didn't like him coming out of college. I took over a dynasty team that had him on it and just traded him for Purdy, Doubs, and a 2026 3rd (salary cap league and I needed WR badly). I just don't believe in his mental toughness. Obviously others do. For Chicago's sake, I hope he proves me wrong. Time will tell.

I didn't know that. Learn something new every day.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.
-Jerry Seinfeld

I'm not believing this without proof. All I know is that he supposedly painted his nails once and I'm not sure there's proof of that either. Tired of people just making stuff up. Let me guess, you're not a Bears fan.

No, the fact that he paints his nails is well established. His mother, I believe did it as her job and it was a bonding thing between them since he was a child.

Honestly, the why of it shouldn't matter. It shouldn't even be a topic of discussion because it's entirely irrelevant.

So, anyone who mocks it is kind of a tool.

Ok on the nails, thanks for the context. I just think he's FOS on the rest, and I called him out on it.

It's a simple as a google search. Have AI do it for you. Caleb wore a red dress at a photo shoot. Also plenty of photos out there with him wearing makeup or feminine clothing. If that's your thing and what you like in your players...that's your right. Good for you. I'm just saying the dude is a little off for my liking. And yeah, Chicago STILL sucks.

 

[Chaka]

… I wish everyone would leave him alone for a minute.

Quick! Someone DM Cara Cunningham!!!

What’s the reference here?

Ok I got it now. I hope we’re on the same page.

… just leave the boy alone and let him develop

Kidding aside: scrutiny is part of the job. It's a really big part.

No one questions his physical tools, at least no one credible, but the mental makeup needs to be there and I'm not sure Caleb has it.

Particularly because he is starting to look like a player who was under coached for his entire career and made it on raw talent. He also may need a lot of work on a the fundamental aspects of his game.

The "guy" wears makeup and women's clothing. I'm not sure he has the mental makeup (see what I did there?) to absorb all the ridicule the keyboard bullies will constantly throw his way. Maybe he does, I don't know. I didn't like him coming out of college. I took over a dynasty team that had him on it and just traded him for Purdy, Doubs, and a 2026 3rd (salary cap league and I needed WR badly). I just don't believe in his mental toughness. Obviously others do. For Chicago's sake, I hope he proves me wrong. Time will tell.

I didn't know that. Learn something new every day.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.
-Jerry Seinfeld

I'm not believing this without proof. All I know is that he supposedly painted his nails once and I'm not sure there's proof of that either. Tired of people just making stuff up. Let me guess, you're not a Bears fan.

No, the fact that he paints his nails is well established. His mother, I believe did it as her job and it was a bonding thing between them since he was a child.

Honestly, the why of it shouldn't matter. It shouldn't even be a topic of discussion because it's entirely irrelevant.

So, anyone who mocks it is kind of a tool.

Ok on the nails, thanks for the context. I just think he's FOS on the rest, and I called him out on it.

What is FOS?

And I questioned if Caleb has the mental make up to be a great NFL QB. I'm not saying for people to not be critical, just pointing out the nail thing is a non issue in that regard.

And I would bet that many, if not most (all?) NFL QBs take great care of their hands, including manicures and clear coats.

I believe it stands for Full Of.... unfounded claimS. Or something like that.

As an aside, fun story: I once let my gf in college convince me to get a pedi with her and they applied a clear coat on my toes. I was too lost in the free champagne to take much notice. I went on to have several other girls on campus make comments about how nice my feet looked the next week or so. Felt awkward the first time it was noticed and commented on, but then I started kinda vibing with it and feeling good about myself. After telling my gf about how many nice comments I was getting from other girls (this was my youthful mistake haha), I was never invited to get a pedi again.

My wife says I have Fred Flintstone feet.

That's got to be pretty useful if your car ever dies.

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

… I wish everyone would leave him alone for a minute.

Quick! Someone DM Cara Cunningham!!!

What’s the reference here?

Ok I got it now. I hope we’re on the same page.

… just leave the boy alone and let him develop

Kidding aside: scrutiny is part of the job. It's a really big part.

No one questions his physical tools, at least no one credible, but the mental makeup needs to be there and I'm not sure Caleb has it.

Particularly because he is starting to look like a player who was under coached for his entire career and made it on raw talent. He also may need a lot of work on a the fundamental aspects of his game.

The "guy" wears makeup and women's clothing. I'm not sure he has the mental makeup (see what I did there?) to absorb all the ridicule the keyboard bullies will constantly throw his way. Maybe he does, I don't know. I didn't like him coming out of college. I took over a dynasty team that had him on it and just traded him for Purdy, Doubs, and a 2026 3rd (salary cap league and I needed WR badly). I just don't believe in his mental toughness. Obviously others do. For Chicago's sake, I hope he proves me wrong. Time will tell.

I didn't know that. Learn something new every day.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.
-Jerry Seinfeld

I'm not believing this without proof. All I know is that he supposedly painted his nails once and I'm not sure there's proof of that either. Tired of people just making stuff up. Let me guess, you're not a Bears fan.

No, the fact that he paints his nails is well established. His mother, I believe did it as her job and it was a bonding thing between them since he was a child.

Honestly, the why of it shouldn't matter. It shouldn't even be a topic of discussion because it's entirely irrelevant.

So, anyone who mocks it is kind of a tool.

Ok on the nails, thanks for the context. I just think he's FOS on the rest, and I called him out on it.

It's a simple as a google search. Have AI do it for you. Caleb wore a red dress at a photo shoot. Also plenty of photos out there with him wearing makeup or feminine clothing. If that's your thing and what you like in your players...that's your right. Good for you. I'm just saying the dude is a little off for my liking. And yeah, Chicago STILL sucks.

What exactly does that have to do with his ability to be a top tier NFL QB and why do I have to like or dislike his personal life to take him as a player on my fantasy team(s)?

 

[JohnnyU]

… I wish everyone would leave him alone for a minute.

Quick! Someone DM Cara Cunningham!!!

What’s the reference here?

Ok I got it now. I hope we’re on the same page.

… just leave the boy alone and let him develop

Kidding aside: scrutiny is part of the job. It's a really big part.

No one questions his physical tools, at least no one credible, but the mental makeup needs to be there and I'm not sure Caleb has it.

Particularly because he is starting to look like a player who was under coached for his entire career and made it on raw talent. He also may need a lot of work on a the fundamental aspects of his game.

The "guy" wears makeup and women's clothing. I'm not sure he has the mental makeup (see what I did there?) to absorb all the ridicule the keyboard bullies will constantly throw his way. Maybe he does, I don't know. I didn't like him coming out of college. I took over a dynasty team that had him on it and just traded him for Purdy, Doubs, and a 2026 3rd (salary cap league and I needed WR badly). I just don't believe in his mental toughness. Obviously others do. For Chicago's sake, I hope he proves me wrong. Time will tell.

I didn't know that. Learn something new every day.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.
-Jerry Seinfeld

I'm not believing this without proof. All I know is that he supposedly painted his nails once and I'm not sure there's proof of that either. Tired of people just making stuff up. Let me guess, you're not a Bears fan.

No, the fact that he paints his nails is well established. His mother, I believe did it as her job and it was a bonding thing between them since he was a child.

Honestly, the why of it shouldn't matter. It shouldn't even be a topic of discussion because it's entirely irrelevant.

So, anyone who mocks it is kind of a tool.

Ok on the nails, thanks for the context. I just think he's FOS on the rest, and I called him out on it.

It's a simple as a google search. Have AI do it for you. Caleb wore a red dress at a photo shoot. Also plenty of photos out there with him wearing makeup or feminine clothing. If that's your thing and what you like in your players...that's your right. Good for you. I'm just saying the dude is a little off for my liking. And yeah, Chicago STILL sucks.

What exactly does that have to do with his ability to be a top tier NFL QB and why do I have to like or dislike his personal life to take him as a player on my fantasy team(s)?

I agree you don't, unless he is slamming into people at 100 mph, or beating the hell out of someone.

 

[Bronco Billy]

… I wish everyone would leave him alone for a minute.

Quick! Someone DM Cara Cunningham!!!

What’s the reference here?

Ok I got it now. I hope we’re on the same page.

… just leave the boy alone and let him develop

Kidding aside: scrutiny is part of the job. It's a really big part.

No one questions his physical tools, at least no one credible, but the mental makeup needs to be there and I'm not sure Caleb has it.

Particularly because he is starting to look like a player who was under coached for his entire career and made it on raw talent. He also may need a lot of work on a the fundamental aspects of his game.

The "guy" wears makeup and women's clothing. I'm not sure he has the mental makeup (see what I did there?) to absorb all the ridicule the keyboard bullies will constantly throw his way. Maybe he does, I don't know. I didn't like him coming out of college. I took over a dynasty team that had him on it and just traded him for Purdy, Doubs, and a 2026 3rd (salary cap league and I needed WR badly). I just don't believe in his mental toughness. Obviously others do. For Chicago's sake, I hope he proves me wrong. Time will tell.

I didn't know that. Learn something new every day.

Not that there is anything wrong with that.
-Jerry Seinfeld

I'm not believing this without proof. All I know is that he supposedly painted his nails once and I'm not sure there's proof of that either. Tired of people just making stuff up. Let me guess, you're not a Bears fan.

No, the fact that he paints his nails is well established. His mother, I believe did it as her job and it was a bonding thing between them since he was a child.

Honestly, the why of it shouldn't matter. It shouldn't even be a topic of discussion because it's entirely irrelevant.

So, anyone who mocks it is kind of a tool.

Ok on the nails, thanks for the context. I just think he's FOS on the rest, and I called him out on it.

It's a simple as a google search. Have AI do it for you. Caleb wore a red dress at a photo shoot. Also plenty of photos out there with him wearing makeup or feminine clothing. If that's your thing and what you like in your players...that's your right. Good for you. I'm just saying the dude is a little off for my liking. And yeah, Chicago STILL sucks.

What exactly does that have to do with his ability to be a top tier NFL QB and why do I have to like or dislike his personal life to take him as a player on my fantasy team(s)?

Mental makeup and mental toughness is a requirement for a starting NFL QB. They play what is easily the most challenging position on the field, need to be leaders, and have to deal with being the focal point of the team both on and off the field.

A guy who plays this violent game surrounded by alpha males and then who acts in questionable ways - painting his nails (which he did this past season as well), wearing dresses, going into the stands and crying on Mom’s shoulder after a loss - those all go to his mental makeup and how he fits into his position and in the league.

Much more important than all of the above though, IMO, is his inability to presnap diagnose and then actively read a D, his processing speed, and his decisions to play out of scheme regularly, which were in question predraft and which he has shown little to no evidence of curing to date.

 

[cdclopper]

Whats the connection between painting your nails and mental toughness. Maybe Im way off, but Im pretty sure this is a social construct as far as masculinity/feminity goes.

 

[Bronco Billy]

Whats the connection between painting your nails and mental toughness. Maybe Im way off, but Im pretty sure this is a social construct as far as masculinity/feminity goes.

OK, let me ask you these two questions:

1) How does painting his nails make him a better QB?

2) Since it is a social construct. as you say, do you think it might affect his perception by his teammates - a group of strong alpha males - as he is expected to lead them in what are weekly violent conflicts against other alpha makes to the point where it could be a negative impact on his team?

Crash Davis:

Your shower shoes have fungus on them. You'll never make it to the bigs with fungus on your shower shoes. Think classy, you'll be classy. If you win twenty in the show, you can let the fungus grow back and the press'll think you're colorful. Until you win twenty in the show, however, it means you are a slob.

 

[pinkstapler]

A lot of assumptions being made in here as to the psyche/culture/dynamics of NFL players so I'll throw my hat in the ring and make one as well, fully acknowledging I could be wrong. But, as much as I understand where some people are coming from with regards to mental toughness and masculinity; I think it's from the frame of mind of a bunch of us who are 40+ years old. It's easy and natural to project our thoughts and opinions onto others; think we all do it to some extent. But I also think society has changed quite a bit, especially the past 10 years or so, let alone 40. So while I obviously don't know specifics or can say for sure what has/hasn't; I think it's safe to assume 20 somethings today have a much different view of the world and perceive a lot of these cultural dynamics much differently than we all did when we were that age. Going back to my pedicure story from a few posts ago, I'm sure in the year 2000 I was one of the few dudes on campus strolling around with clear coat on his toes. I'm pretty sure that number has increased to some extent now in 2025. And more importantly, I think how people would react to me having done that back then is pretty different than how kids today would react to it.

One other thing I've always found interesting in conversations like this as I have family members and a plethora of friends who were in the military; because of our ages, many of them who unfortunately were actually deployed and "saw action". I don't think anyone can rationally deny most soldiers and marines are typically labeled by society as "alpha males" the "bro-iest of bros". I can only assume people making some of the assertions in this thread don't know or haven't had some real conversations with people who have served over the past 15-20 years about how they regularly interact with their squadmates. For impact, not for insult, I'll just say it's some of the "gayest" stuff you can imagine. And I'd argue male bonding at it's peak these days often revolves around a comfortability with hugging, kissing, crying, saying I love you bro, and all other sorts of acting like what a long time ago was considered "feminine".

Circling back; I get some of you/us might not hold high regard or respect for a guy that's sported a dress or painted his nails or cried in public; but projecting that onto the youth of today is probably a fools errand. Turn on the radio and listen to the top 40. We are not young anymore, and the young are not us. Won't try to parse out if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but think it's important that we start by at least acknowledging it is A thing.

 

[cdclopper]

Whats the connection between painting your nails and mental toughness. Maybe Im way off, but Im pretty sure this is a social construct as far as masculinity/feminity goes.

OK, let me ask you these two questions:

1) How does painting his nails make him a better QB?

2) Since it is a social construct. as you say, do you think it might affect his perception by his teammates - a group of strong alpha males - as he is expected to lead them in what are weekly violent conflicts against other alpha makes to the point where it could be a negative impact on his team?

It does not affect his ability at all.

Your second point makes a little sense. But if he's performing and the offense is scoring points, winning games, I dont think his teammates will hang up about his manicured hands. At which point he earns even more respect for being who is. An alpha male does what he wants after all.

 

[LawFitz]

if he's performing and the offense is scoring points, winning games, I dont think his teammates will hang up about his manicured hands.

Agreed. But what if he's not performing? Do these things make the situation worse? I suspect they do in an NFL locker room... Even in 2025.

Caleb's propensity to take sacks dates back to his college days. If Ben Johnson can't solve for that, this dude will never live up to #1 overall expectation, pink nails or clear coat or not. Also doesn't help when the QBs drafted after him in that class are kicking ***.

 

[Bronco Billy]

Whats the connection between painting your nails and mental toughness. Maybe Im way off, but Im pretty sure this is a social construct as far as masculinity/feminity goes.

OK, let me ask you these two questions:

1) How does painting his nails make him a better QB?

2) Since it is a social construct. as you say, do you think it might affect his perception by his teammates - a group of strong alpha males - as he is expected to lead them in what are weekly violent conflicts against other alpha makes to the point where it could be a negative impact on his team?

It does not affect his ability at all.

Your second point makes a little sense. But if he's performing and the offense is scoring points, winning games, I dont think his teammates will hang up about his manicured hands. At which point he earns even more respect for being who is. An alpha male does what he wants after all.

If he’s completing 70% of his passes for 40 TDs and 7 INTs and leading the team to 13-4 records some of his teammates will probably start painting their nails too.

Until then, it’s a pointless distraction that is part of an amalgam of evidence that can be viewed as unrelated to football but as a negative in regard to the perception of him. That perception doesn’t mean a damned thing here, but to his teammates that can be a negative impact. If nothing else, why do it other than to challenge others by calling negative attention to himself?

 

[Chaka]

1) How does painting his nails make him a better QB?

2) Since it is a social construct. as you say, do you think it might affect his perception by his teammates - a group of strong alpha males - as he is expected to lead them in what are weekly violent conflicts against other alpha makes to the point where it could be a negative impact on his team?

1) It doesn't. Should we breakdown every behavior by every player and see if it falls inside or outside of How does it make them a better player?
2) No.

I question his mental makeup as an NFL QB but those questions are irrelevant to the issue entirely. The only thing that matters to them is how he performs on the field. The early returns on that are not good but winning cures everything.

 

[cdclopper]

if he's performing and the offense is scoring points, winning games, I dont think his teammates will hang up about his manicured hands.

Agreed. But what if he's not performing? Do these things make the situation worse? I suspect they do in an NFL locker room... Even in 2025.

Caleb's propensity to take sacks dates back to his college days. If Ben Johnson can't solve for that, this dude will never live up to #1 overall expectation, pink nails or clear coat or not. Also doesn't help when the QBs drafted after him in that class are kicking ***.

I didnt think I'd ever be defending Caleb Williams because I think he's bad at quarterbacking. Ppl had reasons to wonder how his game would translate to the NFL. After year one he looks more like Johny Manziel than Patrick Mahomes. The coaching was bad last year sure, but the Patriots coaching was bad too. Yet Maye didnt play qb like a fainting goat.

 

[Joe Schmo]

Whats the connection between painting your nails and mental toughness. Maybe Im way off, but Im pretty sure this is a social construct as far as masculinity/feminity goes.

OK, let me ask you these two questions:

1) How does painting his nails make him a better QB?

2) Since it is a social construct. as you say, do you think it might affect his perception by his teammates - a group of strong alpha males - as he is expected to lead them in what are weekly violent conflicts against other alpha makes to the point where it could be a negative impact on his team?

It does not affect his ability at all.

Your second point makes a little sense. But if he's performing and the offense is scoring points, winning games, I dont think his teammates will hang up about his manicured hands. At which point he earns even more respect for being who is. An alpha male does what he wants after all.

If he’s completing 70% of his passes for 40 TDs and 7 INTs and leading the team to 13-4 records some of his teammates will probably start painting their nails too.

Until then, it’s a pointless distraction that is part of an amalgam of evidence that can be viewed as unrelated to football but as a negative in regard to the perception of him. That perception doesn’t mean a damned thing here, but to his teammates that can be a negative impact. If nothing else, why do it other than to challenge others by calling negative attention to himself?

I assume Williams is comfortable in himself enough so that he doesn't see the need to hide or deny he likes to paint his nails. If he cares less then perhaps his teammates won't bother to care. Cam Newton played at a high level and led his team to a Super Bowl and he certainly did not hide his passion for dressing, shall I say, flamboyantly, especially his hats. Williams will either stand or fall on talent not on his desire to paint his nails, imo.

 

[JohnnyU]

Whats the connection between painting your nails and mental toughness. Maybe Im way off, but Im pretty sure this is a social construct as far as masculinity/feminity goes.

OK, let me ask you these two questions:

1) How does painting his nails make him a better QB?

2) Since it is a social construct. as you say, do you think it might affect his perception by his teammates - a group of strong alpha males - as he is expected to lead them in what are weekly violent conflicts against other alpha makes to the point where it could be a negative impact on his team?

It does not affect his ability at all.

Your second point makes a little sense. But if he's performing and the offense is scoring points, winning games, I dont think his teammates will hang up about his manicured hands. At which point he earns even more respect for being who is. An alpha male does what he wants after all.

If he’s completing 70% of his passes for 40 TDs and 7 INTs and leading the team to 13-4 records some of his teammates will probably start painting their nails too.

Until then, it’s a pointless distraction that is part of an amalgam of evidence that can be viewed as unrelated to football but as a negative in regard to the perception of him. That perception doesn’t mean a damned thing here, but to his teammates that can be a negative impact. If nothing else, why do it other than to challenge others by calling negative attention to himself?

I assume Williams is comfortable in himself enough so that he doesn't see the need to hide or deny he likes to paint his nails. If he cares less then perhaps his teammates won't bother to care. Cam Newton played at a high level and led his team to a Super Bowl and he certainly did not hide his passion for dressing, shall I say, flamboyantly, especially his hats. Williams will either stand or fall on talent not on his desire to paint his nails, imo.

Sure, but he better have thick skin about it.

 

[Chreesto]

A lot of assumptions being made in here as to the psyche/culture/dynamics of NFL players so I'll throw my hat in the ring and make one as well, fully acknowledging I could be wrong. But, as much as I understand where some people are coming from with regards to mental toughness and masculinity; I think it's from the frame of mind of a bunch of us who are 40+ years old. It's easy and natural to project our thoughts and opinions onto others; think we all do it to some extent. But I also think society has changed quite a bit, especially the past 10 years or so, let alone 40. So while I obviously don't know specifics or can say for sure what has/hasn't; I think it's safe to assume 20 somethings today have a much different view of the world and perceive a lot of these cultural dynamics much differently than we all did when we were that age. Going back to my pedicure story from a few posts ago, I'm sure in the year 2000 I was one of the few dudes on campus strolling around with clear coat on his toes. I'm pretty sure that number has increased to some extent now in 2025. And more importantly, I think how people would react to me having done that back then is pretty different than how kids today would react to it.

One other thing I've always found interesting in conversations like this as I have family members and a plethora of friends who were in the military; because of our ages, many of them who unfortunately were actually deployed and "saw action". I don't think anyone can rationally deny most soldiers and marines are typically labeled by society as "alpha males" the "bro-iest of bros". I can only assume people making some of the assertions in this thread don't know or haven't had some real conversations with people who have served over the past 15-20 years about how they regularly interact with their squadmates. For impact, not for insult, I'll just say it's some of the "gayest" stuff you can imagine. And I'd argue male bonding at it's peak these days often revolves around a comfortability with hugging, kissing, crying, saying I love you bro, and all other sorts of acting like what a long time ago was considered "feminine".

Circling back; I get some of you/us might not hold high regard or respect for a guy that's sported a dress or painted his nails or cried in public; but projecting that onto the youth of today is probably a fools errand. Turn on the radio and listen to the top 40. We are not young anymore, and the young are not us. Won't try to parse out if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but think it's important that we start by at least acknowledging it is A thing.

100% this. All of the guys on their keyboards talking about Caleb wearing a dress are woefully uninformed about the current state of alpha malehood. The thing for the last 20+ years has been acting kind of feminine or gay as a flex to establish your ultimate alpha-ness - IE I am so confident in my manhood that I will act as unmanly as possible and dare you to have a problem with it. For example, in 2012 a Special Forces A-team put a lip-sync and dance version of "call me maybe" on youtube, not exactly the kind of behavior you would associate with toughness. For context ODAs or SF A teams are some of the toughest human beings on the planet. Puffing their chest out and strutting around like a rooster is so far beneath them because they commit acts of immaculate violence for a living. They know for sure what tough is and they believe in themselves so strongly that it kind of tickles them to act a little soft; I have seen them brag about the shine on their nails after a pedicure. Another example of this phenomenon is the movie "warfare" those Navy Seals would gather together to watch the "call on me" music video in an orgy of ironic, child-like celebration, and then go kill people without hesitation. This kind of thing is a regular occurrence in some of the meanest corners of the military. Don't even get me started on playing "gay chicken", or some of the other more extreme explorations of individuality and humor. The bottom line here is that if Caleb is a baller, all of this feminine stuff will server to burnish his greatness. Broadway Joe wore pantyhose, Dennis Rodman wore a wedding dress - if Caleb gets the Bears to a superbowl I will paint my nails navy blue and orange to celebrate.

 

[JohnnyU]

A lot of assumptions being made in here as to the psyche/culture/dynamics of NFL players so I'll throw my hat in the ring and make one as well, fully acknowledging I could be wrong. But, as much as I understand where some people are coming from with regards to mental toughness and masculinity; I think it's from the frame of mind of a bunch of us who are 40+ years old. It's easy and natural to project our thoughts and opinions onto others; think we all do it to some extent. But I also think society has changed quite a bit, especially the past 10 years or so, let alone 40. So while I obviously don't know specifics or can say for sure what has/hasn't; I think it's safe to assume 20 somethings today have a much different view of the world and perceive a lot of these cultural dynamics much differently than we all did when we were that age. Going back to my pedicure story from a few posts ago, I'm sure in the year 2000 I was one of the few dudes on campus strolling around with clear coat on his toes. I'm pretty sure that number has increased to some extent now in 2025. And more importantly, I think how people would react to me having done that back then is pretty different than how kids today would react to it.

One other thing I've always found interesting in conversations like this as I have family members and a plethora of friends who were in the military; because of our ages, many of them who unfortunately were actually deployed and "saw action". I don't think anyone can rationally deny most soldiers and marines are typically labeled by society as "alpha males" the "bro-iest of bros". I can only assume people making some of the assertions in this thread don't know or haven't had some real conversations with people who have served over the past 15-20 years about how they regularly interact with their squadmates. For impact, not for insult, I'll just say it's some of the "gayest" stuff you can imagine. And I'd argue male bonding at it's peak these days often revolves around a comfortability with hugging, kissing, crying, saying I love you bro, and all other sorts of acting like what a long time ago was considered "feminine".

Circling back; I get some of you/us might not hold high regard or respect for a guy that's sported a dress or painted his nails or cried in public; but projecting that onto the youth of today is probably a fools errand. Turn on the radio and listen to the top 40. We are not young anymore, and the young are not us. Won't try to parse out if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but think it's important that we start by at least acknowledging it is A thing.

100% this. All of the guys on their keyboards talking about Caleb wearing a dress are woefully uninformed about the current state of alpha malehood. The thing for the last 20+ years has been acting kind of feminine or gay as a flex to establish your ultimate alpha-ness - IE I am so confident in my manhood that I will act as unmanly as possible and dare you to have a problem with it. For example, in 2012 a Special Forces A-team put a lip-sync and dance version of "call me maybe" on youtube, not exactly the kind of behavior you would associate with toughness. For context ODAs or SF A teams are some of the toughest human beings on the planet. Puffing their chest out and strutting around like a rooster is so far beneath them because they commit acts of immaculate violence for a living. They know for sure what tough is and they believe in themselves so strongly that it kind of tickles them to act a little soft; I have seen them brag about the shine on their nails after a pedicure. Another example of this phenomenon is the movie "warfare" those Navy Seals would gather together to watch the "call on me" music video in an orgy of ironic, child-like celebration, and then go kill people without hesitation. This kind of thing is a regular occurrence in some of the meanest corners of the military. Don't even get me started on playing "gay chicken", or some of the other more extreme explorations of individuality and humor. The bottom line here is that if Caleb is a baller, all of this feminine stuff will server to burnish his greatness. Broadway Joe wore pantyhose, Dennis Rodman wore a wedding dress - if Caleb gets the Bears to a superbowl I will paint my nails navy blue and orange to celebrate.

Namath wore panty hose in a commercial. Big difference. It is true that being masculine has diminished in today’s youth. Probably because of all the bashing of masculinity the last 15 years, into what some have labeled as toxic masculinity. Dumb concept IMO. Gee, I wonder who these people are?

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

A lot of assumptions being made in here as to the psyche/culture/dynamics of NFL players so I'll throw my hat in the ring and make one as well, fully acknowledging I could be wrong. But, as much as I understand where some people are coming from with regards to mental toughness and masculinity; I think it's from the frame of mind of a bunch of us who are 40+ years old. It's easy and natural to project our thoughts and opinions onto others; think we all do it to some extent. But I also think society has changed quite a bit, especially the past 10 years or so, let alone 40. So while I obviously don't know specifics or can say for sure what has/hasn't; I think it's safe to assume 20 somethings today have a much different view of the world and perceive a lot of these cultural dynamics much differently than we all did when we were that age. Going back to my pedicure story from a few posts ago, I'm sure in the year 2000 I was one of the few dudes on campus strolling around with clear coat on his toes. I'm pretty sure that number has increased to some extent now in 2025. And more importantly, I think how people would react to me having done that back then is pretty different than how kids today would react to it.

One other thing I've always found interesting in conversations like this as I have family members and a plethora of friends who were in the military; because of our ages, many of them who unfortunately were actually deployed and "saw action". I don't think anyone can rationally deny most soldiers and marines are typically labeled by society as "alpha males" the "bro-iest of bros". I can only assume people making some of the assertions in this thread don't know or haven't had some real conversations with people who have served over the past 15-20 years about how they regularly interact with their squadmates. For impact, not for insult, I'll just say it's some of the "gayest" stuff you can imagine. And I'd argue male bonding at it's peak these days often revolves around a comfortability with hugging, kissing, crying, saying I love you bro, and all other sorts of acting like what a long time ago was considered "feminine".

Circling back; I get some of you/us might not hold high regard or respect for a guy that's sported a dress or painted his nails or cried in public; but projecting that onto the youth of today is probably a fools errand. Turn on the radio and listen to the top 40. We are not young anymore, and the young are not us. Won't try to parse out if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but think it's important that we start by at least acknowledging it is A thing.

100% this. All of the guys on their keyboards talking about Caleb wearing a dress are woefully uninformed about the current state of alpha malehood. The thing for the last 20+ years has been acting kind of feminine or gay as a flex to establish your ultimate alpha-ness - IE I am so confident in my manhood that I will act as unmanly as possible and dare you to have a problem with it. For example, in 2012 a Special Forces A-team put a lip-sync and dance version of "call me maybe" on youtube, not exactly the kind of behavior you would associate with toughness. For context ODAs or SF A teams are some of the toughest human beings on the planet. Puffing their chest out and strutting around like a rooster is so far beneath them because they commit acts of immaculate violence for a living. They know for sure what tough is and they believe in themselves so strongly that it kind of tickles them to act a little soft; I have seen them brag about the shine on their nails after a pedicure. Another example of this phenomenon is the movie "warfare" those Navy Seals would gather together to watch the "call on me" music video in an orgy of ironic, child-like celebration, and then go kill people without hesitation. This kind of thing is a regular occurrence in some of the meanest corners of the military. Don't even get me started on playing "gay chicken", or some of the other more extreme explorations of individuality and humor. The bottom line here is that if Caleb is a baller, all of this feminine stuff will server to burnish his greatness. Broadway Joe wore pantyhose, Dennis Rodman wore a wedding dress - if Caleb gets the Bears to a superbowl I will paint my nails navy blue and orange to celebrate.

Namath wore panty hose in a commercial. Big difference. It is true that being masculine has diminished in today’s youth. Probably because of all the bashing of masculinity the last 15 years, into what some have labeled as toxic masculinity. Dumb concept IMO. Gee, I wonder who these people are?

Masculinity and toxic masculinity are not the same.

That said, this is the 2nd or 3rd time this topic has been brought up in the Caleb Williams thread. It always comes as a drive by dig/comment by someone ostensibly discussing locker room morale yet always attacking roundaboutly attacking Caleb's masculinity. Since he's been with the Bears, he's said all the right things, played through some incredibly difficult challenges, and supported his coaches when even he knew they weren't giving him any real support. By all rights, dude has been a perfect teammate both in and out of the locker room. On the field he's had struggles, but he's still managed to make it to the 5th best passing season in Bears history. Will he be a HOF QB? Nobody knows for certain, but let's get off this idea that someone's appearance or LEGAL demeanor off the field has really anything to do with their success as a player in the NFL. This quoted @JohnnyU but isn't necessarily directed towards the poster.

 

[Chreesto]

A lot of assumptions being made in here as to the psyche/culture/dynamics of NFL players so I'll throw my hat in the ring and make one as well, fully acknowledging I could be wrong. But, as much as I understand where some people are coming from with regards to mental toughness and masculinity; I think it's from the frame of mind of a bunch of us who are 40+ years old. It's easy and natural to project our thoughts and opinions onto others; think we all do it to some extent. But I also think society has changed quite a bit, especially the past 10 years or so, let alone 40. So while I obviously don't know specifics or can say for sure what has/hasn't; I think it's safe to assume 20 somethings today have a much different view of the world and perceive a lot of these cultural dynamics much differently than we all did when we were that age. Going back to my pedicure story from a few posts ago, I'm sure in the year 2000 I was one of the few dudes on campus strolling around with clear coat on his toes. I'm pretty sure that number has increased to some extent now in 2025. And more importantly, I think how people would react to me having done that back then is pretty different than how kids today would react to it.

One other thing I've always found interesting in conversations like this as I have family members and a plethora of friends who were in the military; because of our ages, many of them who unfortunately were actually deployed and "saw action". I don't think anyone can rationally deny most soldiers and marines are typically labeled by society as "alpha males" the "bro-iest of bros". I can only assume people making some of the assertions in this thread don't know or haven't had some real conversations with people who have served over the past 15-20 years about how they regularly interact with their squadmates. For impact, not for insult, I'll just say it's some of the "gayest" stuff you can imagine. And I'd argue male bonding at it's peak these days often revolves around a comfortability with hugging, kissing, crying, saying I love you bro, and all other sorts of acting like what a long time ago was considered "feminine".

Circling back; I get some of you/us might not hold high regard or respect for a guy that's sported a dress or painted his nails or cried in public; but projecting that onto the youth of today is probably a fools errand. Turn on the radio and listen to the top 40. We are not young anymore, and the young are not us. Won't try to parse out if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but think it's important that we start by at least acknowledging it is A thing.

100% this. All of the guys on their keyboards talking about Caleb wearing a dress are woefully uninformed about the current state of alpha malehood. The thing for the last 20+ years has been acting kind of feminine or gay as a flex to establish your ultimate alpha-ness - IE I am so confident in my manhood that I will act as unmanly as possible and dare you to have a problem with it. For example, in 2012 a Special Forces A-team put a lip-sync and dance version of "call me maybe" on youtube, not exactly the kind of behavior you would associate with toughness. For context ODAs or SF A teams are some of the toughest human beings on the planet. Puffing their chest out and strutting around like a rooster is so far beneath them because they commit acts of immaculate violence for a living. They know for sure what tough is and they believe in themselves so strongly that it kind of tickles them to act a little soft; I have seen them brag about the shine on their nails after a pedicure. Another example of this phenomenon is the movie "warfare" those Navy Seals would gather together to watch the "call on me" music video in an orgy of ironic, child-like celebration, and then go kill people without hesitation. This kind of thing is a regular occurrence in some of the meanest corners of the military. Don't even get me started on playing "gay chicken", or some of the other more extreme explorations of individuality and humor. The bottom line here is that if Caleb is a baller, all of this feminine stuff will server to burnish his greatness. Broadway Joe wore pantyhose, Dennis Rodman wore a wedding dress - if Caleb gets the Bears to a superbowl I will paint my nails navy blue and orange to celebrate.

Namath wore panty hose in a commercial. Big difference. It is true that being masculine has diminished in today’s youth. Probably because of all the bashing of masculinity the last 15 years, into what some have labeled as toxic masculinity. Dumb concept IMO. Gee, I wonder who these people are?

You are missing the point. For some people, the height of masculinity is fearlessness and self assurance. Those people often display this in unconventional ways. I’d wager that you and your conventional definition of masculinity couldn’t endure the beating that Caleb took last year. He took crushing tackles and got right back up. When push comes to shove I’ll take that actual toughness over posturing when I select teammates for any endeavor with actual stakes.

 

[JohnnyU]

A lot of assumptions being made in here as to the psyche/culture/dynamics of NFL players so I'll throw my hat in the ring and make one as well, fully acknowledging I could be wrong. But, as much as I understand where some people are coming from with regards to mental toughness and masculinity; I think it's from the frame of mind of a bunch of us who are 40+ years old. It's easy and natural to project our thoughts and opinions onto others; think we all do it to some extent. But I also think society has changed quite a bit, especially the past 10 years or so, let alone 40. So while I obviously don't know specifics or can say for sure what has/hasn't; I think it's safe to assume 20 somethings today have a much different view of the world and perceive a lot of these cultural dynamics much differently than we all did when we were that age. Going back to my pedicure story from a few posts ago, I'm sure in the year 2000 I was one of the few dudes on campus strolling around with clear coat on his toes. I'm pretty sure that number has increased to some extent now in 2025. And more importantly, I think how people would react to me having done that back then is pretty different than how kids today would react to it.

One other thing I've always found interesting in conversations like this as I have family members and a plethora of friends who were in the military; because of our ages, many of them who unfortunately were actually deployed and "saw action". I don't think anyone can rationally deny most soldiers and marines are typically labeled by society as "alpha males" the "bro-iest of bros". I can only assume people making some of the assertions in this thread don't know or haven't had some real conversations with people who have served over the past 15-20 years about how they regularly interact with their squadmates. For impact, not for insult, I'll just say it's some of the "gayest" stuff you can imagine. And I'd argue male bonding at it's peak these days often revolves around a comfortability with hugging, kissing, crying, saying I love you bro, and all other sorts of acting like what a long time ago was considered "feminine".

Circling back; I get some of you/us might not hold high regard or respect for a guy that's sported a dress or painted his nails or cried in public; but projecting that onto the youth of today is probably a fools errand. Turn on the radio and listen to the top 40. We are not young anymore, and the young are not us. Won't try to parse out if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but think it's important that we start by at least acknowledging it is A thing.

100% this. All of the guys on their keyboards talking about Caleb wearing a dress are woefully uninformed about the current state of alpha malehood. The thing for the last 20+ years has been acting kind of feminine or gay as a flex to establish your ultimate alpha-ness - IE I am so confident in my manhood that I will act as unmanly as possible and dare you to have a problem with it. For example, in 2012 a Special Forces A-team put a lip-sync and dance version of "call me maybe" on youtube, not exactly the kind of behavior you would associate with toughness. For context ODAs or SF A teams are some of the toughest human beings on the planet. Puffing their chest out and strutting around like a rooster is so far beneath them because they commit acts of immaculate violence for a living. They know for sure what tough is and they believe in themselves so strongly that it kind of tickles them to act a little soft; I have seen them brag about the shine on their nails after a pedicure. Another example of this phenomenon is the movie "warfare" those Navy Seals would gather together to watch the "call on me" music video in an orgy of ironic, child-like celebration, and then go kill people without hesitation. This kind of thing is a regular occurrence in some of the meanest corners of the military. Don't even get me started on playing "gay chicken", or some of the other more extreme explorations of individuality and humor. The bottom line here is that if Caleb is a baller, all of this feminine stuff will server to burnish his greatness. Broadway Joe wore pantyhose, Dennis Rodman wore a wedding dress - if Caleb gets the Bears to a superbowl I will paint my nails navy blue and orange to celebrate.

Namath wore panty hose in a commercial. Big difference. It is true that being masculine has diminished in today’s youth. Probably because of all the bashing of masculinity the last 15 years, into what some have labeled as toxic masculinity. Dumb concept IMO. Gee, I wonder who these people are?

You are missing the point. For some people, the height of masculinity is fearlessness and self assurance. Those people often display this in unconventional ways. I’d wager that you and your conventional definition of masculinity couldn’t endure the beating that Caleb took last year. He took crushing tackles and got right back up. When push comes to shove I’ll take that actual toughness over posturing when I select teammates for any endeavor with actual stakes.

Don’t preach to me LOL.

 

[Riffraff]

One of the 1990's best prospects wore a dress (and cost 1 entire draft and a couple more picks the next year too). Too manly?

 

[Faust]

Is it time to worry about Caleb Williams and the Bears?

 

[warpig33]

One of the 1990's best prospects wore a dress (and cost 1 entire draft and a couple more picks the next year too). Too manly?

Ok, that was for a funny photo shoot. Sure, Caleb's was for a photo shoot too. But I wouldn't doubt it if it was Caleb's idea to wear a dress. I don't think it was Ricky's idea to wear a wedding dress. There were never any photos of Ricky in makeup and nail polish either (as far as I know). There are lots of factors that logical people would question Caleb's mental makeup...as has also been mentioned in this thread. I called my shot and said he'd be a bust. So much so that I picked up Bagent in several leagues. Jury is still out...but it's not looking good.

 

[Chaka]

One of the 1990's best prospects wore a dress (and cost 1 entire draft and a couple more picks the next year too). Too manly?

Ok, that was for a funny photo shoot. Sure, Caleb's was for a photo shoot too. But I wouldn't doubt it if it was Caleb's idea to wear a dress. I don't think it was Ricky's idea to wear a wedding dress. There were never any photos of Ricky in makeup and nail polish either (as far as I know). There are lots of factors that logical people would question Caleb's mental makeup...as has also been mentioned in this thread. I called my shot and said he'd be a bust. So much so that I picked up Bagent in several leagues. Jury is still out...but it's not looking good.

Considering what we know about Ricky Williams now, I don't think we can say what his stance on wardrobe was during that photoshoot.

Heck, Ricky should probably be the blueprint for how we view Caleb.

 

[warpig33]

One of the 1990's best prospects wore a dress (and cost 1 entire draft and a couple more picks the next year too). Too manly?

Ok, that was for a funny photo shoot. Sure, Caleb's was for a photo shoot too. But I wouldn't doubt it if it was Caleb's idea to wear a dress. I don't think it was Ricky's idea to wear a wedding dress. There were never any photos of Ricky in makeup and nail polish either (as far as I know). There are lots of factors that logical people would question Caleb's mental makeup...as has also been mentioned in this thread. I called my shot and said he'd be a bust. So much so that I picked up Bagent in several leagues. Jury is still out...but it's not looking good.

Considering what we know about Ricky Williams now, I don't think we can say what his stance on wardrobe was during that photoshoot.

Heck, Ricky should probably be the blueprint for how we view Caleb.

Whoa...I was OK with comparing Caleb to Rodman ( ) But not Ricky! Say it ain't so!

 

[calcinorjones]

Well some of the ladies he has been linked with makes me think I should have painted my nails in college

At any rate - it's interesting to think that last year had a lot of sour but also some sweet. Frankly, this might be his first true season as a pro surrounded by professional coaching and HOPEFULLY a decent OL. I think talk about make or break season or temper tantrums are fun but the reality is the Bears are not going to shock the world and one guy isn't going to take them to a championship. CW isn't the only that has to learn a new system.

Worth noting, the Bears ownership ALWAYS treats a wash rinse repeat as a fresh beginning so year one or two with the current coaches and roster will be given organizational mulligans. IE - they can win 5 or 6 games this year and management will say that it takes time to pull it together. Bears ownership knows that they can take demand for season tickets to the bank regardless of W/L records. Pinning 40 years of a championship draught on a guy with three HCs in a year is probably unrealistic. So is comparing everything the Bears are going to do to what Johnson did with the Lions. Totally different rosters and if Johnson is going to come in and just plug in what he was executing with the Lions the league will attack. I am sure that Johnson is still feeling the sting from the Lion's offense turning the ball over multiple times (Goff had 3 or 4 TOs himself) in a home playoff loss to a middling defense. My point, this is going to take time and certainly more than just two weeks into training camp. The light might not come on until October but that's the way it goes in the NFL with young players trying to build consistency and convergence with new coaches and a new system

 

[Faust]

Underdog NFL
Caleb Williams on clip of him missing throwing targets:

“It's a fun drill and it's a quick release drill in which speed is the only priority.”

“I was competing and I missed it. It was a fake anger."

https://x.com/underdognfl/status/1953530696015716631?s=61

 

[warpig33]

Yeah, yeah, yeah..."preseason"...

"The Athletic’s Kevin Fishbain believes that Caleb Williams “hasn’t been consistent enough” in training camp and that his accuracy “hasn’t been there like it was last summer.”
We didn’t get to see Williams work with the 1s in Sunday’s preseason tune-up against the Dolphins, but it’s not exactly a glowing endorsement from Fishbain on the behind-the-scenes work. Fishbain also gave a “stock down” update to the entire Bears passing game, saying it “hasn’t been a smooth camp” for them. This doesn’t necessarily mean a whole lot — it’s just practice — but we’d love to be reading more positive updates on Williams and the Bears right now as we search for breakout quarterbacks at lower ADPs."
5m ago
Source: The Athletic

 

[Faust]

Ben Devine
This week, Caleb Williams has really put it all together. And early on against the Buffalo Bills, he is looking very strong indeed. #DaBears

https://x.com/chicago_nfl/status/1956388110084034731?s=61

 

[Deranged Hermit]

Well, that first drive was encouraging

 

[Chaka]

Well, that first drive was encouraging

Second series wasn't bad. He smartly ditched the ball on a busted screen pass and the incompletion to Odunze was on target. Rome needs to bring that in.

Most important is he has been decisive and getting the ball out fast.

 

[MrSoup]

Looked like a #1 pick.

 

[Faust]

Adam Schefter
Caleb Williams played two series Sunday night vs. the Bills.

He completed six-of-10 passes for 130 yards, one touchdown and a 130.0 passer rating.

https://x.com/adamschefter/status/1957242254881329152?s=61

 

[Faust]

Dave Kluge
Caleb Williams had more rushing yards per game than Bo Nix last year.

But because Nix had four touchdowns and Williams had zero, Nix gets the "fantasy cheat code" label, and no one thinks twice about Williams' rushing upside.

https://x.com/davekluge/status/1957131957868912991?s=61

 

[The Kerminator]

Looked like a #1 pick.

Didn't see the game but looking at the box score the #2 QB was just as efficient. Was this an indication of Buffalo's #2 D or did Williams pass the eye test?

 

[Max Power]

Looked like a #1 pick.

Didn't see the game but looking at the box score the #2 QB was just as efficient. Was this an indication of Buffalo's #2 D or did Williams pass the eye test?

He looked for real on the first drive. 5 for 6 for 97 yards and a TD. The incompletion was a scramble after a blitz where he hit the WR, just very low.

Second drive had a broken play where he threw it away and another ball that Odunze probably should have caught.

All that said, Buffalo's 2nd string isn't good.

 

[Faust]

Ben Johnson praises 'locked in' Caleb Williams after positive preseason outing

 

[Grahamburn]

Praised him last night and it was deserved for a couple of those throws. Obviously temper those expectations because it's pre-season AND that first drive was completely scripted. Or at least I expect it was. They had worked on those plays specifically in that order in practice.

Still had the running around play where he's rolling right after getting flushed and throws it back against his body toward the middle of the field. No. Throw that out of bounds. Then had the swing pass to the RB, which was clearly first read on the play, but it wasn't open and he about got the kid killed or could have been a pick 6. Just no.

 

[smbkrypt24]

Looked like a #1 pick.

Didn't see the game but looking at the box score the #2 QB was just as efficient. Was this an indication of Buffalo's #2 D or did Williams pass the eye test?

What I thought was encouraging was the play calls. I thought the first? TD WR route was a nice way to free up the WR.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

They host the Vikings on Monday Night Football - Week 1
Then they get to travel to Detroit for week 2
I think those first couple games will be very telling if where he's at on his NFL trajectory
Is he basically a rookie all over again and we give him a pass for last season and two different head coaches? This year it's HC #3
I gotta see it live during the season, my expectations are we will see growth in spurts but also see some of the things we didn't like last season
Work in progress, would not expect a Jared Goff like metamorphosis in year 2, it's gonna take some time

Glad he attracted better headlines this past weekend

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

Looked like a #1 pick.

Didn't see the game but looking at the box score the #2 QB was just as efficient. Was this an indication of Buffalo's #2 D or did Williams pass the eye test?

What I thought was encouraging was the play calls. I thought the first? TD WR route was a nice way to free of the WR.

It's refreshing to see innovative play calling, isn't it? Also my assumption that this is the vanilla version of the offense is getting me pretty excited.

 

[smbkrypt24]

Looked like a #1 pick.

Didn't see the game but looking at the box score the #2 QB was just as efficient. Was this an indication of Buffalo's #2 D or did Williams pass the eye test?

What I thought was encouraging was the play calls. I thought the first? TD WR route was a nice way to free of the WR.

It's refreshing to see innovative play calling, isn't it? Also my assumption that this is the vanilla version of the offense is getting me pretty excited.

yep, let's see who Caleb Williams is with good coaching.

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

They host the Vikings on Monday Night Football - Week 1
Then they get to travel to Detroit for week 2
I think those first couple games will be very telling if where he's at on his NFL trajectory
Is he basically a rookie all over again and we give him a pass for last season and two different head coaches? This year it's HC #3
I gotta see it live during the season, my expectations are we will see growth in spurts but also see some of the things we didn't like last season
Work in progress, would not expect a Jared Goff like metamorphosis in year 2, it's gonna take some time

Glad he attracted better headlines this past weekend

I'd be really surprised if he's a polished, finished product right now. My assumption is he's probably in the JJ McCarthy boat of being a rookie+ with maybe a bit more experience. I'd expect 2025 to be an up and down season trending up. I do expect 3750 passing yards and 30TDs putting him squarely in the middle of the pack.

 

[Chaka]

Praised him last night and it was deserved for a couple of those throws. Obviously temper those expectations because it's pre-season AND that first drive was completely scripted. Or at least I expect it was. They had worked on those plays specifically in that order in practice.

Still had the running around play where he's rolling right after getting flushed and throws it back against his body toward the middle of the field. No. Throw that out of bounds. Then had the swing pass to the RB, which was clearly first read on the play, but it wasn't open and he about got the kid killed or could have been a pick 6. Just no.

I recognize memory is much more flawed that people are willing to admit, with that in mind I don't remember it that way at all.

On the first one; he got flushed to his right and put the ball right of the hash in a spot where only his receiver had a shot at it. I thought the biggest problem was the pass was about 6" low from being a completion.

ETA: @Max Power pointed out the play I am talking about next was not the one you were likely referring to. I don't have a clear memory of that one and need to see the replay.

And the screen pass was blown up from the jump, there were defenders all around the RB and in the backfield, there was no second read. He wisely threw the ball in the dirt in the general direction of the RB. No one "almost got killed".

Again, that's my recollection of those two plays. I need to find a video of every Williams pass, not just the highlight reels I have come up with so far.

 

[Chaka]

They host the Vikings on Monday Night Football - Week 1
Then they get to travel to Detroit for week 2
I think those first couple games will be very telling if where he's at on his NFL trajectory
Is he basically a rookie all over again and we give him a pass for last season and two different head coaches? This year it's HC #3
I gotta see it live during the season, my expectations are we will see growth in spurts but also see some of the things we didn't like last season
Work in progress, would not expect a Jared Goff like metamorphosis in year 2, it's gonna take some time

Glad he attracted better headlines this past weekend

I don't love the narrative that Williams needs a pass for last season. He wasn't terrible, he looked like a rookie. He still completed 63.5% of his passes with a 20/6 TD/INT ratio.

He made bad rookie, off script plays at times but, as Greg Olson pointed out last night he also had the highest % of unblocked defenders in the backfield in the league. He was definitely responsible for a bunch of sacks but he got less help from his OC and OL than most teams in the league.

He looked like a rookie and I think we judge him this poorly because 1) Jayden Daniels looked so amazing by comparison and 2) Williams is easy for some people to dislike for, almost entirely non football reasons.