QB Caleb Williams, CHI (3 Viewers)

[Chaka]

It’s quite detailed and a damning article all around, particularly for Caleb. I generally abide by ‘the truth lies somewhere in the middle’ axiom. But I could absolutely see Johnson and Caleb not working out…and it not having anything to do with Johnson.

I only read the beginning part before the paywall. But enough to read how they had to dumb down the playcalls in the Eberluss offense. So how do we think its going to be for Ben Johnson's offense, notoriously complicated?

They didn't have to, they capitulated to Caleb's immaturity.

Maybe they had their "hands tied behind their back" but, that's also on them. If they were worried more about success and less about whether or not they might keep their jobs if they they bruise the fragile ego of their hopefully star QB, they might still be coaching in Chicago.

But now it's like, here we have a lot of good information, insightful stuff about Caleb Williams character, in the Caleb Williams thread, and we're still talking about Waldren and Euberfluss were terrible.

We get it, they sucked. Can we talk about Caleb Williams part the Bears last year, just for a minute? Since we are in the Caleb Williams thread.

Personally, I have been talking about it in great detail, including in the post you quoted. Seems a lot of people are.

Caleb has all the physical tools in the world and, he's not stupid by any means but, he's not Peyton Manning. Who's drive on the mental aspect of the game was notorious. Caleb has mostly relied on his physical tools and hasn't had to learn how to be a professional. He's clearly immature and struggling with the day-in day-out grind of being a QB in the NFL.

But, as with any leader, subordinate situation it's on the leader to turn the subordinate into a professional. Not the other way around. If you're a leader and care at all about success you don't just say "Figure it out." and walk away, which apparently happened under Eberflus/Waldron. Do parents let their children set the conditions for the house?

Caleb is very similar to Trevor Lawrence who was also a "generational talent" anointed as a true freshman as the next great thing and ended up in a bad situation and underwhelmed greatly. But people were very quick to blame Urban Meyer for everything that went wrong with Trevor. Maybe he's more likeable even if I personally find his hair to be an affront to all that is decent and good in this world. Caleb had a much better rookie season than Trevor, btw.

I am not sure how much more people want to say negative about Caleb but, I think most of us are on the same, very realistic page about who Caleb is and if he can succeed at the NFL level.

 

[Mitchie]

Keenan Allen still looks pretty good. He had some big games with Caleb but also some real clunkers as someone who is basically 7-11 (always open.) Not sure if the coaching staff or Caleb ruined him but there is some combination of the two probably.

I dunno sounds kind of on par with the wr2/wr3 type player.

 

[cdclopper]

It’s quite detailed and a damning article all around, particularly for Caleb. I generally abide by ‘the truth lies somewhere in the middle’ axiom. But I could absolutely see Johnson and Caleb not working out…and it not having anything to do with Johnson.

I only read the beginning part before the paywall. But enough to read how they had to dumb down the playcalls in the Eberluss offense. So how do we think its going to be for Ben Johnson's offense, notoriously complicated?

They didn't have to, they capitulated to Caleb's immaturity.

Maybe they had their "hands tied behind their back" but, that's also on them. If they were worried more about success and less about whether or not they might keep their jobs if they they bruise the fragile ego of their hopefully star QB, they might still be coaching in Chicago.

But now it's like, here we have a lot of good information, insightful stuff about Caleb Williams character, in the Caleb Williams thread, and we're still talking about Waldren and Euberfluss were terrible.

We get it, they sucked. Can we talk about Caleb Williams part the Bears last year, just for a minute? Since we are in the Caleb Williams thread.

Personally, I have been talking about it in great detail, including in the post you quoted. Seems a lot of people are.

Caleb has all the physical tools in the world and, he's not stupid by any means but, he's not Peyton Manning. Who's drive on the mental aspect of the game was notorious. Caleb has mostly relied on his physical tools and hasn't had to learn how to be a professional. He's clearly immature and struggling with the day-in day-out grind of being a QB in the NFL.

But, as with any leader, subordinate situation it's on the leader to turn the subordinate into a professional. Not the other way around. If you're a leader and care at all about success you don't just say "Figure it out." and walk away, which apparently happened under Eberflus/Waldron. Do parents let their children set the conditions for the house?

Caleb is very similar to Trevor Lawrence who was also a "generational talent" anointed as a true freshman as the next great thing and ended up in a bad situation and underwhelmed greatly. But people were very quick to blame Urban Meyer for everything that went wrong with Trevor. Maybe he's more likeable even if I personally find his hair to be an affront to all that is decent and good in this world. Caleb had a much better rookie season than Trevor, btw.

I am not sure how much more people want to say negative about Caleb but, I think most of us are on the same, very realistic page about who Caleb is and if he can succeed at the NFL level.

I guess hearing about Waldron and Uberfluss constantly in here grinds my gears. I was also tired of hearing about Canada in the in the Kenny Pickett thread too. Guess what, they both were bad.

That's more than likely the case here.

 

[Chaka]

It’s quite detailed and a damning article all around, particularly for Caleb. I generally abide by ‘the truth lies somewhere in the middle’ axiom. But I could absolutely see Johnson and Caleb not working out…and it not having anything to do with Johnson.

I only read the beginning part before the paywall. But enough to read how they had to dumb down the playcalls in the Eberluss offense. So how do we think its going to be for Ben Johnson's offense, notoriously complicated?

They didn't have to, they capitulated to Caleb's immaturity.

Maybe they had their "hands tied behind their back" but, that's also on them. If they were worried more about success and less about whether or not they might keep their jobs if they they bruise the fragile ego of their hopefully star QB, they might still be coaching in Chicago.

But now it's like, here we have a lot of good information, insightful stuff about Caleb Williams character, in the Caleb Williams thread, and we're still talking about Waldren and Euberfluss were terrible.

We get it, they sucked. Can we talk about Caleb Williams part the Bears last year, just for a minute? Since we are in the Caleb Williams thread.

Personally, I have been talking about it in great detail, including in the post you quoted. Seems a lot of people are.

Caleb has all the physical tools in the world and, he's not stupid by any means but, he's not Peyton Manning. Who's drive on the mental aspect of the game was notorious. Caleb has mostly relied on his physical tools and hasn't had to learn how to be a professional. He's clearly immature and struggling with the day-in day-out grind of being a QB in the NFL.

But, as with any leader, subordinate situation it's on the leader to turn the subordinate into a professional. Not the other way around. If you're a leader and care at all about success you don't just say "Figure it out." and walk away, which apparently happened under Eberflus/Waldron. Do parents let their children set the conditions for the house?

Caleb is very similar to Trevor Lawrence who was also a "generational talent" anointed as a true freshman as the next great thing and ended up in a bad situation and underwhelmed greatly. But people were very quick to blame Urban Meyer for everything that went wrong with Trevor. Maybe he's more likeable even if I personally find his hair to be an affront to all that is decent and good in this world. Caleb had a much better rookie season than Trevor, btw.

I am not sure how much more people want to say negative about Caleb but, I think most of us are on the same, very realistic page about who Caleb is and if he can succeed at the NFL level.

I guess hearing about Waldron and Uberfluss constantly in here grinds my gears. I was also tired of hearing about Canada in the in the Kenny Pickett thread too. Guess what, they both were bad.

That's more than likely the case here.

I guess but you can't really untangle Caleb from his coaching. Caleb can be immature and have a questionable work ethic and Eberflus/Waldron can be terrible coaches independently. But you really cannot separate Caleb's outcomes from the people who were charged with managing them.

 

[cdclopper]

It’s quite detailed and a damning article all around, particularly for Caleb. I generally abide by ‘the truth lies somewhere in the middle’ axiom. But I could absolutely see Johnson and Caleb not working out…and it not having anything to do with Johnson.

I only read the beginning part before the paywall. But enough to read how they had to dumb down the playcalls in the Eberluss offense. So how do we think its going to be for Ben Johnson's offense, notoriously complicated?

They didn't have to, they capitulated to Caleb's immaturity.

Maybe they had their "hands tied behind their back" but, that's also on them. If they were worried more about success and less about whether or not they might keep their jobs if they they bruise the fragile ego of their hopefully star QB, they might still be coaching in Chicago.

But now it's like, here we have a lot of good information, insightful stuff about Caleb Williams character, in the Caleb Williams thread, and we're still talking about Waldren and Euberfluss were terrible.

We get it, they sucked. Can we talk about Caleb Williams part the Bears last year, just for a minute? Since we are in the Caleb Williams thread.

Personally, I have been talking about it in great detail, including in the post you quoted. Seems a lot of people are.

Caleb has all the physical tools in the world and, he's not stupid by any means but, he's not Peyton Manning. Who's drive on the mental aspect of the game was notorious. Caleb has mostly relied on his physical tools and hasn't had to learn how to be a professional. He's clearly immature and struggling with the day-in day-out grind of being a QB in the NFL.

But, as with any leader, subordinate situation it's on the leader to turn the subordinate into a professional. Not the other way around. If you're a leader and care at all about success you don't just say "Figure it out." and walk away, which apparently happened under Eberflus/Waldron. Do parents let their children set the conditions for the house?

Caleb is very similar to Trevor Lawrence who was also a "generational talent" anointed as a true freshman as the next great thing and ended up in a bad situation and underwhelmed greatly. But people were very quick to blame Urban Meyer for everything that went wrong with Trevor. Maybe he's more likeable even if I personally find his hair to be an affront to all that is decent and good in this world. Caleb had a much better rookie season than Trevor, btw.

I am not sure how much more people want to say negative about Caleb but, I think most of us are on the same, very realistic page about who Caleb is and if he can succeed at the NFL level.

I guess hearing about Waldron and Uberfluss constantly in here grinds my gears. I was also tired of hearing about Canada in the in the Kenny Pickett thread too. Guess what, they both were bad.

That's more than likely the case here.

I guess but you can't really untangle Caleb from his coaching. Caleb can be immature and have a questionable work ethic and Eberflus/Waldron can be terrible coaches independently. But you really cannot separate Caleb's outcomes from the people who were charged with managing them.

Except when there's a piece of in depth journalism which precisely describes both parts, the coach's and the quarterback's part, of the failure. When the coach's error was giving the qb too much freedom and not enough accountability, most ppl would say thats not a good look for the qb.

 

[Chaka]

It’s quite detailed and a damning article all around, particularly for Caleb. I generally abide by ‘the truth lies somewhere in the middle’ axiom. But I could absolutely see Johnson and Caleb not working out…and it not having anything to do with Johnson.

I only read the beginning part before the paywall. But enough to read how they had to dumb down the playcalls in the Eberluss offense. So how do we think its going to be for Ben Johnson's offense, notoriously complicated?

They didn't have to, they capitulated to Caleb's immaturity.

Maybe they had their "hands tied behind their back" but, that's also on them. If they were worried more about success and less about whether or not they might keep their jobs if they they bruise the fragile ego of their hopefully star QB, they might still be coaching in Chicago.

But now it's like, here we have a lot of good information, insightful stuff about Caleb Williams character, in the Caleb Williams thread, and we're still talking about Waldren and Euberfluss were terrible.

We get it, they sucked. Can we talk about Caleb Williams part the Bears last year, just for a minute? Since we are in the Caleb Williams thread.

Personally, I have been talking about it in great detail, including in the post you quoted. Seems a lot of people are.

Caleb has all the physical tools in the world and, he's not stupid by any means but, he's not Peyton Manning. Who's drive on the mental aspect of the game was notorious. Caleb has mostly relied on his physical tools and hasn't had to learn how to be a professional. He's clearly immature and struggling with the day-in day-out grind of being a QB in the NFL.

But, as with any leader, subordinate situation it's on the leader to turn the subordinate into a professional. Not the other way around. If you're a leader and care at all about success you don't just say "Figure it out." and walk away, which apparently happened under Eberflus/Waldron. Do parents let their children set the conditions for the house?

Caleb is very similar to Trevor Lawrence who was also a "generational talent" anointed as a true freshman as the next great thing and ended up in a bad situation and underwhelmed greatly. But people were very quick to blame Urban Meyer for everything that went wrong with Trevor. Maybe he's more likeable even if I personally find his hair to be an affront to all that is decent and good in this world. Caleb had a much better rookie season than Trevor, btw.

I am not sure how much more people want to say negative about Caleb but, I think most of us are on the same, very realistic page about who Caleb is and if he can succeed at the NFL level.

I guess hearing about Waldron and Uberfluss constantly in here grinds my gears. I was also tired of hearing about Canada in the in the Kenny Pickett thread too. Guess what, they both were bad.

That's more than likely the case here.

I guess but you can't really untangle Caleb from his coaching. Caleb can be immature and have a questionable work ethic and Eberflus/Waldron can be terrible coaches independently. But you really cannot separate Caleb's outcomes from the people who were charged with managing them.

Except when there's a piece of in depth journalism which precisely describes both parts, the coach's and the quarterback's part, of the failure. When the coach's error was giving the qb too much freedom and not enough accountability, most ppl would say thats not a good look for the qb.

It's not a good look for either. I mean, I know you understand that is the head coach's job to, y'know coach. So, what's the problem?

 

[Manster]

It’s quite detailed and a damning article all around, particularly for Caleb. I generally abide by ‘the truth lies somewhere in the middle’ axiom. But I could absolutely see Johnson and Caleb not working out…and it not having anything to do with Johnson.

I only read the beginning part before the paywall. But enough to read how they had to dumb down the playcalls in the Eberluss offense. So how do we think its going to be for Ben Johnson's offense, notoriously complicated?

They didn't have to, they capitulated to Caleb's immaturity.

Maybe they had their "hands tied behind their back" but, that's also on them. If they were worried more about success and less about whether or not they might keep their jobs if they they bruise the fragile ego of their hopefully star QB, they might still be coaching in Chicago.

This is the day, and age of allowing the players (in some organizations) to run the show. Caleb clearly thought he was going to do that in Chicago. The only question I have is Ben Johnson going going be able to rein him in and make him part of a team? We know the tools are there. But upstairs….we shall see. I only care because I have him in FF.

 

[cdclopper]

Hopefully his next babysitter will make him eat his dinner before letting him have ice cream.

 

[Chaka]

It’s quite detailed and a damning article all around, particularly for Caleb. I generally abide by ‘the truth lies somewhere in the middle’ axiom. But I could absolutely see Johnson and Caleb not working out…and it not having anything to do with Johnson.

I only read the beginning part before the paywall. But enough to read how they had to dumb down the playcalls in the Eberluss offense. So how do we think its going to be for Ben Johnson's offense, notoriously complicated?

They didn't have to, they capitulated to Caleb's immaturity.

Maybe they had their "hands tied behind their back" but, that's also on them. If they were worried more about success and less about whether or not they might keep their jobs if they they bruise the fragile ego of their hopefully star QB, they might still be coaching in Chicago.

This is the day, and age of allowing the players (in some organizations) to run the show. Caleb clearly thought he was going to do that in Chicago. The only question I have is Ben Johnson going going be able to rein him in and make him part of a team? We know the tools are there. But upstairs….we shall see. I only care because I have him in FF.

It's a good question. I agree with the logic that the Bagent signing is about more than just securing a backup. It feels like a contingency plan if things go sideways with Caleb this year.

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

The coaches don't have to put their name on it for it to be true that Caleb Williams is dumb, lazy, and difficult. That's my interperentation. If Euberfluss and Waldren were poor leaders and coaches, its because they were too lax on Caleb Williams. That doesnt say anything good about the player. I mean, we are in the Caleb Williams thread, after all. Does he need Ben Johnson to come in and hold accountable with some strong leadership? It's not a good look. It's more Kyler Murray and less Patrick Mahomes kind of leadership and work ethic. I mean, if he's flat ignoring the coaches, for real thats not a red flag for you? What happens if he starts ignoring the great Ben Johnson?

Eberflus sucked long before Caleb got there. He should not have had a job Caleb's rookie year because of his performance the previous two years. Would it have made a difference in the Bear's season or Caleb's development? Maybe, maybe not, but it couldn't have hurt. Bears knew Eberflus sucked and kept him around. His first two years with the Bears were brutally bad. Justin Fields won them a few games playing playground ball, and if he didn't, he'd have been fired before 2024. It's that simple.

I don't dispute Caleb has issues, and I believe many of them are correctable and related to maturity. And yet, I still have a problem with people anonymously airing their dirty laundry. I mean, what's the point? To hurt Caleb? To hurt the Bears? What? (Those questions are rhetorical btw, we all the know answer. These guys wanted to make themselves feel better about losing their job and stick a knife in the guy's back they feel was responsible for it)

 

[massraider]

I know the normal process is to dismiss criticism of Williams as old dude who doesn't like fingernail painting

Hasn't the normal process been to criticize Caleb for things he didn't say, and didn't do, and to apply made up theories by internet clickbait to him before he played a game?

Did you feel like he has been getting the benefit of the doubt?

That would be a scorching hot take, IMO.

 

[rockaction]

Did you feel like he has been getting the benefit of the doubt?

I feel like the people defending him now are sort of people that are always cynical about any type of authority and sort of generally ill-tempered. Unless you're Chaka and you're from SoCal like me so you followed him and have an attachment to him it seems odd that you'd take issue with people who previously criticized him. They had a point depending on their reasoning.

This guy reeks to high heaven and if you can't sort of at least reflect upon how the wagons were circled for a kid that does weird **** like paint obscenities into his fingernails about other teams then I don't know what to tell you about your own makeup. I mean, your argument is basically, "Yeah, but you were fallacious for judging him for the wrong reasons!"

Guess what, kiddo? Those weren't fallacious or stupid reasons at all. Kid almost definitely had the exact issues people said he had. I do get that you think it's like a broken clock being right twice a day but you're strawmanning the argument. The argument isn't "he's effeminate because he paints his nails, therefore he'll be a problem in some undefined way." The argument is actually, "that kid emblazoned himself with obscenities and directed those vulgarities at the other team, which is awfully odd when one considers the method, delivery, and content of the message. And it also shows that his focus is suspect—it is a weird focus on sending a message that is antagonistic rather than focusing on the job at hand."

I could give a **** if my QB paints his nails. Paint them day-glo green and pink and start quoting Ken Kesey for all I care. But something was off with this dude.

 

[cdclopper]

Probably has nothing to do with painting his nails. More to do with his attitude, like not listening to coaching or putting the time in to learn the playbook fully.

 

[massraider]

Probably has nothing to do with painting his nails

Are you calling Joe a liar?

 

[rockaction]

Did you feel like he has been getting the benefit of the doubt?

I feel like the people defending him now are sort of people that are always cynical about any type of authority and sort of generally ill-tempered. Unless you're Chaka and you're from SoCal like me so you followed him and have an attachment to him it seems odd that you'd take issue with people who previously criticized him. They had a point depending on their reasoning.

This guy reeks to high heaven and if you can't sort of at least reflect upon how the wagons were circled for a kid that does weird **** like paint obscenities into his fingernails about other teams then I don't know what to tell you about your own makeup. I mean, your argument is basically, "Yeah, but you were fallacious for judging him for the wrong reasons!"

Guess what, kiddo? Those weren't fallacious or stupid reasons at all. Kid almost definitely had the exact issues people said he had. I do get that you think it's like a broken clock being right twice a day but you're strawmanning the argument. The argument isn't "he's effeminate because he paints his nails, therefore he'll be a problem in some undefined way," the argument is actually, "that kid emblazoned himself with obscenities and directed those vulgarities at the other team, which is awfully odd when one considers the method, delivery, and content of the message. And it also shows that his focus is suspect—it is a weird focus on sending a message that is antagonistic rather than focusing on the job at hand."

I could give a **** if my QB paints his nails. Paint them day-glo green and pink and start quoting Ken Kesey for all I care. But something was off with this dude.

You're so worried about being right about Caleb after one season you're just doing the opposite of what you're accusing his supporters are. Heck, you're just being a simpleton who thinks you have to be on one side or the other when in reality you can be somewhere in the middle realizing QB development sometimes takes time. Seasons like Daniels had are most certainly anomalies in this league. To say Caleb doesn't have elite traits is asinine. To say Caleb didn't cause a lot of his problems last season is just as bad.

No, I'm not worried about being right in the least. I don't think I really discussed it very publicly. I've got no reputation to uphold nor am I worried about seeming correct. I'm discussing the weird back-and-forth each side had about this kid. But your post is just off regardless. I'd appreciate it if your weird personal attacks and motive attributive self just put me on ignore.

You don't have a temperament or demeanor that I'm ever going to respond to because you seem like you missed the socialization process as a young man. Take care.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Probably has nothing to do with painting his nails. More to do with his attitude, like not listening to coaching or putting the time in to learn the playbook fully.

Agreed.

I'm just saying I've seen it where the person doing the criticizing might have legit reasons (like much of the article laid out) but the respone is that there must be some sort of underlying bias.

Just my experience.

 

[Joe Bryant]

It’s quite detailed and a damning article all around, particularly for Caleb. I generally abide by ‘the truth lies somewhere in the middle’ axiom. But I could absolutely see Johnson and Caleb not working out…and it not having anything to do with Johnson.

I only read the beginning part before the paywall. But enough to read how they had to dumb down the playcalls in the Eberluss offense. So how do we think its going to be for Ben Johnson's offense, notoriously complicated?

They didn't have to, they capitulated to Caleb's immaturity.

Maybe they had their "hands tied behind their back" but, that's also on them. If they were worried more about success and less about whether or not they might keep their jobs if they they bruise the fragile ego of their hopefully star QB, they might still be coaching in Chicago.

This is the day, and age of allowing the players (in some organizations) to run the show. Caleb clearly thought he was going to do that in Chicago. The only question I have is Ben Johnson going going be able to rein him in and make him part of a team? We know the tools are there. But upstairs….we shall see. I only care because I have him in FF.

It's a good question. I agree with the logic that the Bagent signing is about more than just securing a backup. It feels like a contingency plan if things go sideways with Caleb this year.

I'm hearing more and more of that. Especially from people in Chicago.

I think the Bears HC/QB storyline is one of the more interesting things to watch unfold this year.

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

It’s quite detailed and a damning article all around, particularly for Caleb. I generally abide by ‘the truth lies somewhere in the middle’ axiom. But I could absolutely see Johnson and Caleb not working out…and it not having anything to do with Johnson.

I only read the beginning part before the paywall. But enough to read how they had to dumb down the playcalls in the Eberluss offense. So how do we think its going to be for Ben Johnson's offense, notoriously complicated?

They didn't have to, they capitulated to Caleb's immaturity.

Maybe they had their "hands tied behind their back" but, that's also on them. If they were worried more about success and less about whether or not they might keep their jobs if they they bruise the fragile ego of their hopefully star QB, they might still be coaching in Chicago.

This is the day, and age of allowing the players (in some organizations) to run the show. Caleb clearly thought he was going to do that in Chicago. The only question I have is Ben Johnson going going be able to rein him in and make him part of a team? We know the tools are there. But upstairs….we shall see. I only care because I have him in FF.

It's a good question. I agree with the logic that the Bagent signing is about more than just securing a backup. It feels like a contingency plan if things go sideways with Caleb this year.

I'm hearing more and more of that. Especially from people in Chicago.

I think the Bears HC/QB storyline is one of the more interesting things to watch unfold this year.

You can never have too man options at QB. That said, Bagent sure seems like a guy who can play in the league but may not be a guy to get you to a Superbowl. The weapons in Chicago are there on the offensive side of the ball. If Poles can shore up the defense into a Bears-esque unit, then maybe it doesn't matter who the QB is?

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

Articles, from actual Chicago beat writers, are starting to come out refuting Tyler Dunne's scathing article on Caleb Williams.

Diss-***tion

 

[Manster]

Articles, from actual Chicago beat writers, are starting to come out refuting Tyler Dunne's scathing article on Caleb Williams.

Diss-***tion

It seems like da Bears folks are offended that there are questions about Caleb.

I’m sure the truth lies in the middle somewhere. It usually does.

Looking forward to tonight

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

Articles, from actual Chicago beat writers, are starting to come out refuting Tyler Dunne's scathing article on Caleb Williams.

Diss-***tion

It seems like da Bears folks are offended that there are questions about Caleb.

I’m sure the truth lies in the middle somewhere. It usually does.

Looking forward to tonight

It seems the people who have a vested interest in hating Williams have really latched on to this one, uncorroborated, article by someone who doesn't cover the Bears in any capacity.

 

[Manster]

Articles, from actual Chicago beat writers, are starting to come out refuting Tyler Dunne's scathing article on Caleb Williams.

Diss-***tion

It seems like da Bears folks are offended that there are questions about Caleb.

I’m sure the truth lies in the middle somewhere. It usually does.

Looking forward to tonight

It seems the people who have a vested interest in hating Williams have really latched on to this one, uncorroborated, article by someone who doesn't cover the Bears in any capacity.

@CletiusMaximus detailed Dunnes other pieces. He seems to think the guy does his research, and is legit. Now, I get it that in some ways it may be sour grapes from a lame duck regime, but I dunno man…..the good thing is we will get to see how it plays out. Like I said before, I only care because I took a chance on him in FF. No emotion here.

 

[Faust]

Next Gen Stats
Caleb Williams reached a top speed of 20.29 mph on his 9-yard scramble TD run, the fastest speed of his career and 10th-fastest by a QB since the start of last season.

Williams had just a 17.8% probability of scoring a TD when he took off to run at the 16.

Powered by @awscloud

https://x.com/nextgenstats/status/1965212522237321403?s=61

Through halftime, Caleb Williams is averaging a 3.34-second time to throw, his 2nd-longest in a game of his career.

Despite being pressured eight times (40% pressure rate), Williams has yet to be sacked by the Brian Flores-led Vikings defense.

#MINvsCHI | #DaBears

https://x.com/nextgenstats/status/1965229523445973034?s=61

 

[Deranged Hermit]

I'm far from a Bagent truther, but I fully believe they win this game if he started. Williams was embarrassing in the second half and, truthfully, 75% of the game.

 

[Max Power]

I think I've flipped on Caleb now. For every wow throw, he has at least 3 wildly inaccurate throws. He doesn't see the field well and just made Ben Johnson look like he can't call an offense.

 

[Smack Tripper]

A terrible football player

 

[Deranged Hermit]

I think I've flipped on Caleb now. For every wow throw, he has at least 3 wildly inaccurate throws. He doesn't see the field well and just made Ben Johnson look like he can't call an offense.

That play in the 4th quarter where he missed Moore was embarrassing. That should have been the easiest TD of his short career.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I think I've flipped on Caleb now. For every wow throw, he has at least 3 wildly inaccurate throws. He doesn't see the field well and just made Ben Johnson look like he can't call an offense.

Agreed. On the 4th down in the first half, he missed an open receiver. And there were other plays where he missed open receivers as well. Factor in that Aikman was noticing open receivers early in the game that Caleb simply wasn't seeing and it makes me think he struggles to read the field quickly. Combine that with his inconsistent passing and it's hard to see an upside with him any time soon. Maybe he will turn the corner and prove some of us wrong, but I don't see it happening any time soon.

 

[Manster]

Well, I had McCarthy in, and switched him out for Caleb last minute. Yea, I Suck.

 

[RaidersAreOne]

Caleb is such a rollercoaster. I don’t think he will be the Bears franchise QB like we all thought.

 

[Manster]

I think I've flipped on Caleb now. For every wow throw, he has at least 3 wildly inaccurate throws. He doesn't see the field well and just made Ben Johnson look like he can't call an offense.

That play in the 4th quarter where he missed Moore was embarrassing. That should have been the easiest TD of his short career.

Looked like he was pressing for sure. Missed multiple throws late. Even that Kmet catch was a bad pass that Kmet made a great play on

 

[BeTheMatch]

He's going to get hurt a lot if he keeps playing in this way.

 

[Ridgeback]

Sure am I glad I took him instead of Daniels in 2 leauges. FML.

 

[Faust]

Jacob Infante
I gave Justin Fields until midway through Year 3 before I gave up hope. You have to accelerate that timeline for Caleb Williams given what's around him.

Too early to give up on Caleb now. But this level of play won't fly if he's gonna be the franchise QB of the #Bears.

https://x.com/jacobinfante24/status/1965256931653943462?s=61

 

[Soulfly3]

Ryan Leaf is not a fan... says Penix best prospect in the draft

MSN

Well, I'm not sure how to feel that I agree with Ryan Leaf of all people... But I've stated this as well.
Now, to be fair... I think Caleb is the best prospect coming out of college at QB, but I just think Penix will be better in the NFL. Somewhat bold, I guess... But I love Penix.

Like a fine wine, SF3 takes only gets better with age...

 

[SayWhat?]

He’s going to be the James Harden of “franchise” quarterbacks. The stats will be fine, but he’s definitely more style than substance.

The play where he was flushed out of the pocket towards the sideline and then stepped out of bounds for a 4 yard loss before throwing the ball away is a microcosm of his game right now. No quarterback in the NFL should make that play, let alone a franchise quarterback.

I hope he improves, but I’d be a bit nervous if I were a Bears fan.

 

[-OZ-]

Well, I had McCarthy in, and switched him out for Caleb last minute. Yea, I Suck.

Could be worse. I started Bryce Young and nix over Caleb. I felt decent a week ago.
At least I have Penix in my main league.

 

[OnTheReg]

He’s going to be the James Harden of “franchise” quarterbacks. The stats will be fine, but he’s definitely more style than substance.

The play where he was flushed out of the pocket towards the sideline and then stepped out of bounds for a 4 yard loss before throwing the ball away is a microcosm of his game right now. No quarterback in the NFL should make that play, let alone a franchise quarterback.

I hope he improves, but I’d be a bit nervous if I were a Bears fan.

Harden is actually a great player, multiple-time first-team All-NBA (but yeah huge choke artist). Caleb isn't anything close to that.

 

[Dizzy]

Imagine if you did a shot last night for every time Troy Aikman said, "Yeah Joe, when Caleb goes back and looks at the tape he'll see that he had <insert WR here> wide open going doing the seam. He just didn't see him"... you probably would have died from alcohol poisoning.

 

[renesauz]

It seemed to me that his decision making was actually ok (not good but not terrible for a young QB). What wasn't ok? HIs accuracy with ANY kind of pressure. IN that second half it seemed like if any defender was within 4 feet of him he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. He missed a ton of throws that the overwhelming majority of NFL QBs hit.
NOt sure that's fixable.

 

[Chaka]

It seemed to me that his decision making was actually ok (not good but not terrible for a young QB). What wasn't ok? HIs accuracy with ANY kind of pressure. IN that second half it seemed like if any defender was within 4 feet of him he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. He missed a ton of throws that the overwhelming majority of NFL QBs hit.
NOt sure that's fixable.

It really didn't look like he was reading anything either.

Even on that first drive it really looked like he struggled when he tried to stand in the pocket. He seemed to come off his first read incredibly fast and checked down. His only play of note was the scramble where he hit Odunze.

About the only thing that impressed me was his escapability, he made this Minnesota defensive lineman look like they were running in quicksand for most of the night.

He also seems to be naturally careful with the ball but, he's probably too careful. Which is why he's coming off his reads so early.

Physically he's all world, but right now he's a lot more Ryan Leaf mentally than Peyton Manning.

 

[crushedspirit]

Yet someone was mocking my comment earlier in the game thread that he was looking gun shy, which was a huge issue last season. That reluctance to throw the ball when the first read is about to break open got worse as the game went on, but it was obvious early on even with his 10 completions which mostly consisted of the check down variety. He showed improvement with taking the high percentage throws and using his athleticism to run for yards instead of eating sacks like he did last season, so there's some hope. Unfortunately film will show several occasions where he had bigger plays available and passed them up. I was hoping to see field vision improvement, but he's not there yet.

 

[rockaction]

Yet someone was mocking my comment earlier in the game thread that he was looking gun shy, which was a huge issue last season. That reluctance to throw the ball when the first read is about to break open got worse as the game went on, but it was obvious early on even with his 10 completions which mostly consisted of the check down variety. He showed improvement with taking the high percentage throws and using his athleticism to run for yards instead of eating sacks like he did last season, so there's some hope. Unfortunately film will show several occasions where he had bigger plays available and passed them up. I was hoping to see field vision improvement, but he's not there yet.

The person that was mocking you has a problem with the world. He thinks that criticizing Caleb is a proxy for something else that he doesn't like. It's just an angry contrarian streak that won't listen to anyone even if their motivations are very far apart from what he's attributed it to. That's when you know someone is a bit overzealous and far gone regarding a subject—they assume you're lying or making a bad faith argument about something that is perfectly legitimate. They've spent so much time around people they think are liars or duplicitous that they can't fathom you're not like that. It's sort of a sad way to be, and I don't hate them for it—it must be tough to be consumed with those emotions.

 

[Mongidig]

At the beginning of the game I saw comments about how good Caleb looks. He’s certainly nifty and athletic. He has a strong arm. Unfortunately, he still doesn’t throw with anticipation. He misses way too many layup throws. He still holds on to the ball too long. He doesn’t have great ball placement. I thought the Bears would get off to a slow start while learning the Ben Johnson offense. What concerns me is the lack of some fundamental QB skills.

 

[Manster]

Yet someone was mocking my comment earlier in the game thread that he was looking gun shy, which was a huge issue last season. That reluctance to throw the ball when the first read is about to break open got worse as the game went on, but it was obvious early on even with his 10 completions which mostly consisted of the check down variety. He showed improvement with taking the high percentage throws and using his athleticism to run for yards instead of eating sacks like he did last season, so there's some hope. Unfortunately film will show several occasions where he had bigger plays available and passed them up. I was hoping to see field vision improvement, but he's not there yet.

The person that was mocking you has a problem with the world. He thinks that criticizing Caleb is a proxy for something else that he doesn't like. It's just an angry contrarian streak that won't listen to anyone even if their motivations are very far apart from what he's attributed it to. That's when you know someone is a bit overzealous and far gone regarding a subject—they assume you're lying or making a bad faith argument about something that is perfectly legitimate. They've spent so much time around people they think are liars or duplicitous that they can't fathom you're not like that. It's sort of a sad way to be, and I don't hate them for it—it must be tough to be consumed with those emotions.

100% This.

Its why I always make sure I say I don’t have any emotion when it comes to Caleb. I have him in FF, and I ONLY care about production on the field.

 

[Chaka]

At the beginning of the game I saw comments about how good Caleb looks. He’s certainly nifty and athletic. He has a strong arm. Unfortunately, he still doesn’t throw with anticipation. He misses way too many layup throws. He still holds on to the ball too long. He doesn’t have great ball placement. I thought the Bears would get off to a slow start while learning the Ben Johnson offense. What concerns me is the lack of some fundamental QB skills Caleb lacks.

Yeah, it is definitely time to be concerned.

Before last night I was in the camp that it would take until around week 6 before Ben Johnson's offense was fully implemented. And at that point I expected Caleb to start looking like the #1 overall pick. Now, I'm kinda wondering who will be the Chi QB by week 6.

 

[zeeshan2]

He’s going to be the James Harden of “franchise” quarterbacks. The stats will be fine, but he’s definitely more style than substance.

The play where he was flushed out of the pocket towards the sideline and then stepped out of bounds for a 4 yard loss before throwing the ball away is a microcosm of his game right now. No quarterback in the NFL should make that play, let alone a franchise quarterback.

I hope he improves, but I’d be a bit nervous if I were a Bears fan.

that's an insult to harden

 

[calcinorjones]

Hard to explain but it seems like he gets zoomie with the heat of a pass rush and the mental image of plays, first reads and second reads become too much for him to process. This leads to breaking from the pocket to create. Creating in the NFL is dangerous. The great ones can and will do this. Rare players. Williams looked more like a gazelle trying to escape a pack of hungry wolves. The sideline throw to Odunze is a strike improvised play. Missing wide open playmakers is troubling. Give credit to a strong Vikings defense but the turning point for me was a botched screen pass on a third and two that killed their third drive. It all went south after that. Penalties didn’t help. Overall mostly disappointing, some good but considering the can’t miss hype and the success other QBs in the draft class - its beyond frustrating

 

[Joe Bryant]

some good but considering the can’t miss hype and the success other QBs in the draft class - its beyond frustrating

I think this is a thing for lots of people.

I don't know any other player who has more sensitive/protective supporters than Williams, but he came into the league billed as a generational talent. This wasn't remotely a normal first round pick. And not a normal first overall pick. For instance, the hype for Cam Ward was off the charts different.

And so were the expectations.

Most of the blame for last year was deflected to the coaches, and they were removed.

We're all super interested to see how he fares in year two with a renowned offensive-minded coach.

As I've said, one of the more interesting storylines in the league this year.

 

[Smack Tripper]

some good but considering the can’t miss hype and the success other QBs in the draft class - its beyond frustrating

I think this is a thing for lots of people.

I don't know any other player who has more sensitive/protective supporters than Williams, but he came into the league billed as a generational talent. This wasn't remotely a normal first round pick. And not a normal first overall pick. For instance, the hype for Cam Ward was off the charts different.

And so were the expectations.

Most of the blame for last year was deflected to the coaches, and they were removed.

We're all super interested to see how he fares in year two with a renowned offensive-minded coach.

As I've said, one of the more interesting storylines in the league this year.

Williams took a step back his last year at USC, at least watching him play.

If I was a bears fan, I'd be sick taking him over Daniels, thats a 10 year NFL starter

But Williams seemed like the chalk/safe/no criticism pick at the time but I thought Daniels far better.]

So to your point, I think the Williams believers really pushed him to a place he didn't earn.

Ironically there would have been no question if he came out as a junior.

Not unlike Trevor Lawrence. He's been in decline since his Freshman year at Clemson, to the point where it was such a rote pick to take him 1.01 but he wasn't that guy IMO. But you're a crappy team who's coming off a bad year to land you at 1.01 so its hard to live with the second guessing of passing on these guys.