QB Derek Carr, Retired (2 Viewers)

[Dr. Octopus]

I don’t see how the Raiders have leverage here.

Only a homer would say they do. When your argument is "They'll just pay him $40MM to ride the bench. That will show him". - you have no argument.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I don’t see how the Raiders have leverage here.

Only a homer would say they do. When your argument is "They'll just pay him $40MM to ride the bench. That will show him". - you have no argument.

Interestingly it seems like Carr is in a position to make them do exactly that.

I don’t think he will, but considering his unceremonious benching at the end of the season, the Raiders certainly mad it a tempting option.

 

[massraider]

I haven't really read much speculation as to who might want him.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I haven't really read much speculation as to who might want him.

Jets seem like a Derrick Carr away from a really good season.

Panthers could bring in Carr and then draft ARich to develop behind him.

That all said, word is Raiders want a 1st, and that might be tough to get from the teams that need Carr, since they have other needs.

Gonna be interesting.

 

[massraider]

That all said, word is Raiders want a 1st, and that might be tough to get from the teams they need Carr, since they have other needs.

I'm not too interested in what the Raiders might want for a guy who will be free in TWO WEEKS.

 

[Chaka]

Because the Raiders could simply not cut him. That puts the ball in Carr's court.

I thought they had until the 15th to sign, trade or cut him?

As I understand it, if he’s on the roster, he gets paid $40M. It’s not so much signing him, it’s failing to get a trade done in time.

And Carr has a full no-trade clause. He could simply sit on his hands and force the raiders to pay him.

A situation that seemingly could get ugly.

From there, if they don’t want him to play for them, they release him, getting nothing & losing $5.6 and saving ~30M against the cap.

A hard deadline on a decision for Vegas regarding Carr's future is Feb. 15. That's when the $40.4 million is locked in. They'll have to have a trade in place by that date or outright release him.

I don’t see how the Raiders have leverage here.

They're not obligated to cut him. They could simply pay him the $40 mil. After that they could go the Garoppolo route and try to work a trade. If that doesn't pan out then start him or sit him in 2023.

People are making too much of Carr's salary. The cap is going up by $20 mil or so, he is in the books for $32 mil in 2023, that's only slightly above average in the NFL.

I guarantee Carr would rather start for the Raiders, or another team far, far more then spending a year on the bench, even at $40 mil.

 

[Chaka]

"They won't pay Garoppolo X million to sit on the bench"

These are literally the same arguments people were having about Jimmy Garoppolo last season.

Carr will be easier to deal with his current contract than Garoppolo last year because he isn't coming off a shoulder injury.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

They're not obligated to cut him. They could simply pay him the $40 mil. After that they could go the Garoppolo route and try to work a trade. If that doesn't pan out then start him or sit him in 2023.

That seems really, really risky to me. And I’m not sure Mark “purse strings” Davis is going to be willing to do that.

 

[massraider]

"They won't pay Garoppolo X million to sit on the bench"

These are literally the same arguments people were having about Jimmy Garoppolo last season.

Carr will be easier to deal with his current contract than Garoppolo last year because he isn't coming off a shoulder injury.

Maaan, if I thought the plan was to start Carr, and draft Hooker/Richardson, I would b like, well, heck yeah guys, OK.

 

[Kiddnets]

"They won't pay Garoppolo X million to sit on the bench"

These are literally the same arguments people were having about Jimmy Garoppolo last season.

Carr will be easier to deal with his current contract than Garoppolo last year because he isn't coming off a shoulder injury.

Jimmy G was essentially let go - only came back when there was no market for him and they paid him $7M to be a backup - I dont see any parallel or precedent in any sport to sign a guy to a $40M contract and let him sit on the bench in a stand off. The Raiders showed their hand by benching him to make sure he didnt get hurt so the salary would not be guaranteed - after all that I just dont see how they bring him back in any way. Im confident he will be cut or swapped for a mid/late pick at best. Good news is we'll all see very soon.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

That all said, word is Raiders want a 1st, and that might be tough to get from the teams they need Carr, since they have other needs.

I'm not too interested in what the Raiders might want for a guy who will be free in TWO WEEKS.

Well, yeah - that’s the flip side. Unless you believe the Raiders will gamble $40M before that.

I’m skeptical, but hey, stranger things have happened.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Maaan, if I thought the plan was to start Carr, and draft Hooker/Richardson, I would b like, well, heck yeah guys, OK.

I’m not convinced the Raiders had a plan beyond “oh sh**! If he gets hurt we’re on the hook for $40M!”

Beyond that I think they’re winging it.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I dont see any parallel or precedent in any sport to sign a guy to a $40M contract and let him sit on the bench in a stand off.

"What if we gave him $40MM to do nothing, we'd really have him by the balls then."

"Quick get my checkbook, we'll show this mother****er."

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I dont see any parallel or precedent in any sport to sign a guy to a $40M contract and let him sit on the bench in a stand off.

"What if we gave him $40MM to do nothing, we'd really have him by the balls then."

"Quick get my checkbook, we'll show this mother****er."

My dream job, tbh.

 

[Chaka]

No one is saying the Raiders are in the driver's seat here, Carr absolutely is but to say the Raiders have no leverage is incorrect.

It's a high stakes game of Chicken, if Carr decides to play hardball the Raiders can respond in kind.

The longer Carr has to wait to get to market, the more it hurts everyone.

 

[Chaka]

They're not obligated to cut him. They could simply pay him the $40 mil. After that they could go the Garoppolo route and try to work a trade. If that doesn't pan out then start him or sit him in 2023.

That seems really, really risky to me. And I’m not sure Mark “purse strings” Davis is going to be willing to do that.

Huge risk. 100%

High stakes Chicken.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

They're not obligated to cut him. They could simply pay him the $40 mil. After that they could go the Garoppolo route and try to work a trade. If that doesn't pan out then start him or sit him in 2023.

That seems really, really risky to me. And I’m not sure Mark “purse strings” Davis is going to be willing to do that.

Huge risk. 100%

High stakes Chicken.

I guess if he’s willing to rock that haircut, anything’s possible.

I remain skeptical.

 

[Chaka]

"They won't pay Garoppolo X million to sit on the bench"

These are literally the same arguments people were having about Jimmy Garoppolo last season.

Carr will be easier to deal with his current contract than Garoppolo last year because he isn't coming off a shoulder injury.

Jimmy G was essentially let go - only came back when there was no market for him and they paid him $7M to be a backup - I dont see any parallel or precedent in any sport to sign a guy to a $40M contract and let him sit on the bench in a stand off. The Raiders showed their hand by benching him to make sure he didnt get hurt so the salary would not be guaranteed - after all that I just dont see how they bring him back in any way. Im confident he will be cut or swapped for a mid/late pick at best. Good news is we'll all see very soon.

There are some key differences with Garoppolo's situation, for sure. He was due $25 million but only if he was on the roster week one. The Niners and Garoppolo restructured in late August when it was obvious there was no trade market.

Garoppolo could have tried to force the Niners to cut him by not restructuring and they likely, but not definitely, would have at that point but Garoppolo recognized that with no starting opportunities available his best situation was to remain with the Niners.

The Raiders are in a much tougher situation with having to guarantee Carr's contract so early. But if Carr wants to sign a multi-year contract as a starter with a different team, any potential delay hurts his prospects significantly.

If he gets his $40 mil from the Raiders and rides the bench, is he going to get that multi-year deal in 2024 or is he going to enter a "prove it" contract situation? The NFL has a notoriously short memory and Carr's last film is him gifting the Steelers a win.

Carr's time for that deal is right now, he has incentive to work with the Raiders to find his best opportunity as soon as possible.

To be fair, it is difficult to have confidence in the Raiders organization to hold up to such a ballsy risk but if they want anything in return for Carr, that is their path.

 

[Chaka]

BTW the Raiders have not granted Carr permission to seek a trade. The only reasonable explanation for that (yes, yes the Raiders are not known for their outstanding reasoning skills) is they want to obscure the teams that are interested and his market value from his team as much as possible.

It isn't a ton of pressure but it is what they can bring to bear right now and it signals the possibility that the organization is willing to keep Carr in 2023.

 

[Hankmoody]

Because the Raiders could simply not cut him. That puts the ball in Carr's court.

I thought they had until the 15th to sign, trade or cut him?

As I understand it, if he’s on the roster, he gets paid $40M. It’s not so much signing him, it’s failing to get a trade done in time.

And Carr has a full no-trade clause. He could simply sit on his hands and force the raiders to pay him.

A situation that seemingly could get ugly.

From there, if they don’t want him to play for them, they release him, getting nothing & losing $5.6 and saving ~30M against the cap.

A hard deadline on a decision for Vegas regarding Carr's future is Feb. 15. That's when the $40.4 million is locked in. They'll have to have a trade in place by that date or outright release him.

I don’t see how the Raiders have leverage here.

He's under contract already. There's nothing to sign. On Feb 15th his 2023 salary guarantees, that's the "decision" they face.

 

[Chaka]

Because the Raiders could simply not cut him. That puts the ball in Carr's court.

I thought they had until the 15th to sign, trade or cut him?

As I understand it, if he’s on the roster, he gets paid $40M. It’s not so much signing him, it’s failing to get a trade done in time.

And Carr has a full no-trade clause. He could simply sit on his hands and force the raiders to pay him.

A situation that seemingly could get ugly.

From there, if they don’t want him to play for them, they release him, getting nothing & losing $5.6 and saving ~30M against the cap.

A hard deadline on a decision for Vegas regarding Carr's future is Feb. 15. That's when the $40.4 million is locked in. They'll have to have a trade in place by that date or outright release him.

I don’t see how the Raiders have leverage here.

He's under contract already. There's nothing to sign. On Feb 15th his 2023 salary guarantees, that's the "decision" they face.

I have difficulty believing the Raiders will actually guarantee the money to push the trade.

It's their only leverage but it's a hugely expensive gamble.

If they do, I have to believe they would have the intent to at least try and rehab the relationship and start him in 2023. It's also a gamble but sitting on the bench is a terrible outcome for Carr, even if he gets $40 mil for the privilege.

 

[Grahamburn]

You can't pay a backup QB $40M out of spite. Come on, man.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

If they do, I have to believe they would have the intent to at least try and rehab the relationship and start him in 2023

Feels like that train has sailed. I’m no rocket surgeon though.

 

[ICON211]

If Carr had a significant injury in the last two games his trade value was completely gone. IMO they sat for him for the last two games for that as much as the guarantee kicking in.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Because the Raiders could simply not cut him. That puts the ball in Carr's court.

I thought they had until the 15th to sign, trade or cut him?

As I understand it, if he’s on the roster, he gets paid $40M. It’s not so much signing him, it’s failing to get a trade done in time.

And Carr has a full no-trade clause. He could simply sit on his hands and force the raiders to pay him.

A situation that seemingly could get ugly.

From there, if they don’t want him to play for them, they release him, getting nothing & losing $5.6 and saving ~30M against the cap.

A hard deadline on a decision for Vegas regarding Carr's future is Feb. 15. That's when the $40.4 million is locked in. They'll have to have a trade in place by that date or outright release him.

I don’t see how the Raiders have leverage here.

He's under contract already. There's nothing to sign. On Feb 15th his 2023 salary guarantees, that's the "decision" they face.

Do you think they release him before then or let the contract become guaranteed and then try and trade him? Are those the only two options (outside of keeping him of course which to me doesn’t seem an option). I do feel like maybe I’m missing something.

If he comes with that contract in place I would guess a late round pick is all they’ll get in a trade.

 

[Chaka]

You can't pay a backup QB $40M out of spite. Come on, man.

That's why I said that if they did pick up the contract, they would have to be willing to rehab the relationship and start him. Even as they continue to try and work a trade.

 

[Chaka]

If they do, I have to believe they would have the intent to at least try and rehab the relationship and start him in 2023

Feels like that train has sailed. I’m no rocket surgeon though.

$40 million mends a lot of fences.

 

[Chaka]

Because the Raiders could simply not cut him. That puts the ball in Carr's court.

I thought they had until the 15th to sign, trade or cut him?

As I understand it, if he’s on the roster, he gets paid $40M. It’s not so much signing him, it’s failing to get a trade done in time.

And Carr has a full no-trade clause. He could simply sit on his hands and force the raiders to pay him.

A situation that seemingly could get ugly.

From there, if they don’t want him to play for them, they release him, getting nothing & losing $5.6 and saving ~30M against the cap.

A hard deadline on a decision for Vegas regarding Carr's future is Feb. 15. That's when the $40.4 million is locked in. They'll have to have a trade in place by that date or outright release him.

I don’t see how the Raiders have leverage here.

He's under contract already. There's nothing to sign. On Feb 15th his 2023 salary guarantees, that's the "decision" they face.

Do you think they release him before then or let the contract become guaranteed and then try and trade him? Are those the only two options (outside of keeping him of course which to me doesn’t seem an option). I do feel like maybe I’m missing something.

If he comes with that contract in place I would guess a late round pick is all they’ll get in a trade.

Releasing him would be a bitter pill but it is probably the betting favorite of all the outcomes.

Keeping him with the intent of trade could certainly happen but, big gamble and, you're correct, without a restructure of the contract the Raiders would either have to accept far less in return or eat a significant portion of the cash to facilitate a better return. Like the Browns did with Mayfield last year.

 

[Hankmoody]

Do you think they release him before then or let the contract become guaranteed and then try and trade him? Are those the only two options (outside of keeping him of course which to me doesn’t seem an option). I do feel like maybe I’m missing something.

If he comes with that contract in place I would guess a late round pick is all they’ll get in a trade.

No I do not believe they will release him. They will let the money guarantee and then figure it out. $32M is very middle-of-the-road for a QB in 2023, there will be plenty of interest. There's no rule they have to trade him or bench him. Carr's a professional. If they tell him to report on Monday and he's the starter, then he'll report on Monday and start. Carr isn't walking away from football any sooner than LVR are flushing $32M down the drain.

Now once they are at that stable point things open up. Unlike Jimmy Grapes Carr is healthy. That was the biggest barrier to trading him last year, no one knew when he was going to be ready. By the time he was everyone had made their 2022 bed to sleep in thus no trade market. Teams that are staring down the barrel of Zach Wilson or Sam Howell aren't going to let a playoff-caliber roster rot for a year when there's an option out there. At least 5 teams are playoff-ready rosters aside from QB. Crap the Panthers nearly won that division. They could work something out for Carr and draft a bookend LT at 9? Yeah, that doesn't suck.

 

[massraider]

$40 million mends a lot of fences.

Agreed. This isn't Aaron Rodgers. THis is Bambi

 

[Dr. Octopus]

No I do not believe they will release him. They will let the money guarantee and then figure it out. $32M is very middle-of-the-road for a QB in 2023, there will be plenty of interest. There's no rule they have to trade him or bench him. Carr's a professional. If they tell him to report on Monday and he's the starter, then he'll report on Monday and start. Carr isn't walking away from football any sooner than LVR are flushing $32M down the drain.

I wouldn’t expect him to hold out.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Now once they are at that stable point things open up. Unlike Jimmy Grapes Carr is healthy. That was the biggest barrier to trading him last year, no one knew when he was going to be ready. By the time he was everyone had made their 2022 bed to sleep in thus no trade market. Teams that are staring down the barrel of Zach Wilson or Sam Howell aren't going to let a playoff-caliber roster rot for a year when there's an option out there. At least 5 teams are playoff-ready rosters aside from QB. Crap the Panthers nearly won that division. They could work something out for Carr and draft a bookend LT at 9? Yeah, that doesn't suck.

Ok, there will surely be a market for him. So it makes sense to me that they’ll probably pick up his option (so to speak) - and while I don’t think that helps them trade him ( I disagree about the contract, to some extent, for his caliber) but whatever they get is better than getting nothing for releasing him.
As to Carr, leverage is meaningless. He’s getting paid either way (and very nicely) and more than likely a team trading for him will want to extend him anyway.
Thanks it’s a lot more interesting to me now. Maybe I was just reading it wrong, but I think there were some inaccurate starting positions in the thread making the dialogue confusing.

 

[Dez]

Carr gets benched by his own team and makes pro bowl and that isn't even the worst selection........how about 2 TD passing Huntley is a pro bowl maker ? Good God

 

[massraider]

Carr gets benched by his own team and makes pro bowl and that isn't even the worst selection........how about 2 TD passing Huntley is a pro bowl maker ? Good God

Trying to think of something I care less about than the Pro Bowl.

Who wins The Bachelor?r Cicket matches?

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Carr gets benched by his own team and makes pro bowl and that isn't even the worst selection........how about 2 TD passing Huntley is a pro bowl maker ? Good God

Trying to think of something I care less about than the Pro Bowl.

Who wins The Bachelor?r Cicket matches?

At least it’s flag football this time.

I keep waiting for the NFL to make it matter like MLB, where the AS game winner gets home field in the WS.

“This time it’s for real!”

 

[ffmail4me]

Carr gets benched by his own team and makes pro bowl and that isn't even the worst selection........how about 2 TD passing Huntley is a pro bowl maker ? Good God

I hope the ghost of Sean Taylor possesses a defender in this game who then knocks the living crap out of Huntley during a game he has NO BUSINESS playing in.

 

[Chaka]

$40 million mends a lot of fences.

Agreed. This isn't Aaron Rodgers. THis is Bambi

I hope so, $40 mil can buy a lot of Ayahuasca.

 

[travdogg]

Carr gets benched by his own team and makes pro bowl and that isn't even the worst selection........how about 2 TD passing Huntley is a pro bowl maker ? Good God

Huntley is in the Pro Bowl? Did Davis Mills turn down the invite? Were there not enough MILFs in Vegas for Zach Wilson to want to play?

 

[Chaka]

Now once they are at that stable point things open up. Unlike Jimmy Grapes Carr is healthy. That was the biggest barrier to trading him last year, no one knew when he was going to be ready. By the time he was everyone had made their 2022 bed to sleep in thus no trade market. Teams that are staring down the barrel of Zach Wilson or Sam Howell aren't going to let a playoff-caliber roster rot for a year when there's an option out there. At least 5 teams are playoff-ready rosters aside from QB. Crap the Panthers nearly won that division. They could work something out for Carr and draft a bookend LT at 9? Yeah, that doesn't suck.

Ok, there will surely be a market for him. So it makes sense to me that they’ll probably pick up his option (so to speak) - and while I don’t think that helps them trade him ( I disagree about the contract, to some extent, for his caliber) but whatever they get is better than getting nothing for releasing him.
As to Carr, leverage is meaningless. He’s getting paid either way (and very nicely) and more than likely a team trading for him will want to extend him anyway.
Thanks it’s a lot more interesting to me now. Maybe I was just reading it wrong, but I think there were some inaccurate starting positions in the thread making the dialogue confusing.

Apology accepted.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Carr gets benched by his own team and makes pro bowl and that isn't even the worst selection........how about 2 TD passing Huntley is a pro bowl maker ? Good God

Huntley is in the Pro Bowl? Did Davis Mills turn down the invite? Were there not enough MILFs in Vegas for Zach Wilson to want to play?

He can guard a flag with the best of them.

 

[HW_53]

You can't pay a backup QB $40M out of spite. Come on, man.

Raiders be like, "Hold my beer..."

 

[Hankmoody]

No I do not believe they will release him. They will let the money guarantee and then figure it out. $32M is very middle-of-the-road for a QB in 2023, there will be plenty of interest. There's no rule they have to trade him or bench him. Carr's a professional. If they tell him to report on Monday and he's the starter, then he'll report on Monday and start. Carr isn't walking away from football any sooner than LVR are flushing $32M down the drain.

I wouldn’t expect him to hold out.

Yeah that wasn't what I was going for, more like he's not going to burn bridges. The John Dutton way to play this is to do nothing, start the new league year, and let them come to you. When a reporter asks you when you plan to resolve "the Derek Carr situation" you look blankly at them and growl "it's resolved, he's under contract as our QB" and swig your booze. What's the worst that can happen? We keep Carr? Boo freaking hoo, we keep a decent QB that we've seen really good upside from and we just have to try to figure out consistency at that level? For the same salary Goff/Wentz/Cousins are drawing?

That's where the professional comment comes from, I think if it were to play out that way Carr wouldn't blow it up. I believe his sincerity that he fully intended to be a Raider for life and if there's a glimmer of hope that could happen he'd be up to repairing whatever this fracture is and staying here. I don't expect it, but I think you play into that if you're the front office.

Now we'll see which Dutton is running this ranch. Pray it's not Jamie.

 

[Faust]

Raiders GM Dave Ziegler expects to field offers for Derek Carr: 'There's going to be people interested'

 

[menobrown]

True story. If Carr somehow got hurt in the pro bowl his contract for 2023 with the Raiders would get locked into a guarantee.

So yes it's flag football and yes the odds of an injury are super remote. But don't ever forget Robert Edwards.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

True story. If Carr somehow got hurt in the pro bowl his contract for 2023 with the Raiders would get locked into a guarantee.

So yes it's flag football and yes the odds of an injury are super remote. But don't ever forget Robert Edwards.

Could the Raiders keep him from playing? I guess they would have by now if they could and/or wanted to.
That’s interesting. It’s sure not a zero percent chance of injury.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Imagine holding him out of last two games and then him getting hurt in a sanctioned flag football game?

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

True story. If Carr somehow got hurt in the pro bowl his contract for 2023 with the Raiders would get locked into a guarantee.

So yes it's flag football and yes the odds of an injury are super remote. But don't ever forget Robert Edwards.

How do you know that's a "true story"? Honestly, just curious. This pro-bowl stuff, while sponsored by the NFL, just seems like any other charity golf/basketball/etc game that players sometimes compete in in the off-season.

Is it just because it's the NFL putting it on? I mean, it is optional. It's not something they have to do by contract.

Just curious...

 

[menobrown]

True story. If Carr somehow got hurt in the pro bowl his contract for 2023 with the Raiders would get locked into a guarantee.

So yes it's flag football and yes the odds of an injury are super remote. But don't ever forget Robert Edwards.

How do you know that's a "true story"? Honestly, just curious. This pro-bowl stuff, while sponsored by the NFL, just seems like any other charity golf/basketball/etc game that players sometimes compete in in the off-season.

Is it just because it's the NFL putting it on? I mean, it is optional. It's not something they have to do by contract.

Just curious...

No problem, here it is: https://www.reviewjournal.com/sport...arr-is-seriously-injured-in-pro-bowl-2721224/

 

[Tanner9919]

heard an interesting stat about Carr in that he has more 4th quarter come backs and game winning drives than any QB in the game since he became the starter. I mean, NYJ could use a guy who can move the ball in the 4th Q and get the win.

 

[Faust]

Derek Carr has said he will not extend the Feb. 15 deadline for the $40.4 million injury guarantee clause in his contract.​

In other words, the Raiders have to trade Carr before Feb. 15. Carr has a no-trade clause, so in other other words, he will not be getting traded, instead forcing his release. “I don’t think that would be best for me,” Carr said matter-of-factly. He is correct. Carr has zero reason to play ball with the Raiders, and though the remaining money on his deal is lucrative, he will make even more as a free agent in this quarterback-starved league. The Raiders threw Carr under the bus on the way out the door. He is reclaiming some dignity now.
SOURCE: ESPN
Feb 2, 2023, 11:18 PM ET