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QB Deshaun Watson, CLE (1 Viewer)

DJackson10

Footballguy
Then again, I think there are more than a few guys that should be kicked out of the league.

I'm with you here. I'm banning all of them who deserve it. NFL doesn't have the balls too. Afraid of lawsuits and loss of money from certain guys not playing. They don't care about the 3rd string QB they'll ban him for life. But when it comes to the $$$$$ making superstars that line their pockets and even the bookies and casinos etc don't you dare suspend them to the point they lose money in their pockets.

What irks me @Chaka is Calvin Ridley gets suspended a full year for betting on games and we don't even know if he bet on his own team. However the arbitrator gives Watson who has a rap sheet of sexual assault cases the length of some people's arms they give 6 games? This is a guy who's shown zero remorse and thinks he did nothing wrong. The league is assbjckwards on these things. And don't get me started on the weed suspensions.
 

DJackson10

Footballguy
Chaka, lifetime ban? Jeez.

I think you’re being a bit hard on the guy.
Maybe, but step back and consider that 24 women accused him of "non-violent sexual harassment", he solicited 60+ such encounters over a 17 month time frame (when, I am pretty sure the Texans would have given him all the free massages he needed) and has not only shown zero remorse, but apparently still believes he did nothing wrong in the first place (ie he seems to believe "they really wanted it").

Yeah, I have no problem with kicking that guy out of the league.

Then again, I think there are more than a few guys that should be kicked out of the league.
Are we 100% sure all of these women are telling the truth regarding what exactly happened?
I’m not trying to defend Watson but it’s difficult to believe that every single one of these 24 women didn’t know what they were getting into. It wouldn’t surprise me if at least some of the “arrangements” were agreed upon and then when word broke about this whole story and a possible settlement, some women changed their story.

Nope this many women and from different parts of the country its hard to see lying. I'm not accusing you of anything but statements like these is why many abused woman don't come forward in the first place. The doubt many especially men put into the subject of a "woman is lying" "just looking for a payday" etc etc.
 

DJackson10

Footballguy

AKA I'm sorry I was caught being a dirty disgusting perverted sexual predator and being held accountable. I'm a Football player and entitled to what I want.

Thats all that reads to me. From what I've heard he's not once made any concern for the women involved nor the people he's put in a bad spot including the Texans and his teammates. This to me reads more like "I'm reading a statement my PR team has given to me hoping to make me look better and get sympathy".
 

Hot Sauce Guy

Footballguy
but hey, let's trot out the multi spousal abuser, multi accused rapist Jim Brown out there as the friggin face of the NFL. LOl. just oozes hypocrisy. Robert Kraft got caught with his pants down in a massage parlor apparently harassing the girls who put the oil on his back,etc. but that scumbag gets off without a charge? wtf is going on with the NFL. Ray Rice carrer ruined. Jim Brown beats the **** out of a number of women, attempts to rape or actually does rape but victims refuse to testify because he trheatens to beat the **** out of them, and he's introducing player at the NFL draft, gets cushy meet-n-greet gigs the NFL sponsors. any one of you who has a jim brown signed shirt,hat,helmet, football should be ****ing ashamed of yourself for condoning this scumbag in his thug career of violence and reported, repeated rapes.*allegedly*
What do you mean by "harassing"...is there evidence that he put them in a position they didn't want to be in...?..."harassed" girls"....what exactly does that mean when you say it like you did....did he somehow force them into a rub and tug.....?....or was it consensual and basically a business deal...?
Does it really matter? Do we think he got caught at a strip mall rub'n'tug by accident? Some kind of innocent mistake?

He went there for an Old Fashioned and got popped. The league has codified, in writing, that owners are to be held to a higher standard. Clearly that isn't the reality.

Watson is a predatory ######-### who deserves more punishment than he will receive, but Kraft is no innocent and should have been held accountable for participating in human sex trafficking.
if people think what Watson did is the same as Kraft....not much you can say.....I don't remember hearing anything about Kraft "harassing" the girls....
Both Kraft and Watson tried to turn massages into sex acts. The principal difference in their crimes is Watson participated in two dozen instances of "non-violent sexual harassment" and Kraft participated in human sex trafficking.

Did Kraft who, on paper, is supposed to be held to a higher standard even get a slap on the wrist?

Watson deserves every punishment that is coming to him, and probably far more. A lifetime ban would be great IMO. It's shameful that Kraft got a free pass.
And this is the perfect illustration of why “whataboutism” is a logical fallacy.

Pointing out that someone else got away with something without penalty doesn’t excuse or minimize another person’s actions. It highlights the fact that the other party should be punished as well.

Both Kraft & Watson should be punished, and it’s inexcusable that Kraft largely skated unscathed, save for public humiliation.

Unfortunately Kraft is part of a privileged class of society that often avoids such consequences.

But that has no bearing on whether Watson should be punished for his own actions.

Very good point on Kraft. He's part of a class of elites that even if they get punished it's a laughable slap on the wrist. They have high profile lawyers and most probably run with people you wouldn't want to involve yourself in with some pretty shady stuff.

However Watson should be punished and both should be punished but we can't look at these two situations equally here. I'm pretty critical on the whole punishment thing. I'm a 1 strike and you are out on this domestic violence etc. Do it once and ban for life. This job is a privilege not an entitled right. You want to screw that chance of all that talent up being immature, acting like you are in a gang, some elitist, mobster, etc you get exactly what you deserve. Good bye. To me it doesn't matter if you are Patrick Mahomes, Tom Brady or 3rd string Back up TE. You lost your privilege. Go get a 9-5 job or have fun flipping burgers at the Local In and Out or McDonald's where you can sulk and maybe finally realize I need to grow up and act like an adult because I just screwed up an awesome chance in life numerous people wish they got.

It frustrates me and saddens me seeing some of these guys with their heads so far up their asses they are willing to throw all that away and for what? Impress a few friends or something who will turn your back on ya when things go south?
I get what you’re saying, and for the most part I agree. Except for one nit to pick:

The players earned their jobs. Yes, it’s a privilege, but they aren’t necessarily privileged - many of them came from nothing. They have what they have because they fought tooth and nail for it, and likely from a very young age.

Some players do stupid #### exactly because of that. And I’m not excusing their behavior, just saying. We are all a product of our environment.

But yeah, both Kraft & Watson largely avoided consequences, so I guess that’s a level of privilege most of us don’t enjoy. Watson’s consequences will sound harsh, but are they? Take a year off then make 10s of millions. Poor guy. 🥹
 

DJackson10

Footballguy
but hey, let's trot out the multi spousal abuser, multi accused rapist Jim Brown out there as the friggin face of the NFL. LOl. just oozes hypocrisy. Robert Kraft got caught with his pants down in a massage parlor apparently harassing the girls who put the oil on his back,etc. but that scumbag gets off without a charge? wtf is going on with the NFL. Ray Rice carrer ruined. Jim Brown beats the **** out of a number of women, attempts to rape or actually does rape but victims refuse to testify because he trheatens to beat the **** out of them, and he's introducing player at the NFL draft, gets cushy meet-n-greet gigs the NFL sponsors. any one of you who has a jim brown signed shirt,hat,helmet, football should be ****ing ashamed of yourself for condoning this scumbag in his thug career of violence and reported, repeated rapes.*allegedly*
What do you mean by "harassing"...is there evidence that he put them in a position they didn't want to be in...?..."harassed" girls"....what exactly does that mean when you say it like you did....did he somehow force them into a rub and tug.....?....or was it consensual and basically a business deal...?
Does it really matter? Do we think he got caught at a strip mall rub'n'tug by accident? Some kind of innocent mistake?

He went there for an Old Fashioned and got popped. The league has codified, in writing, that owners are to be held to a higher standard. Clearly that isn't the reality.

Watson is a predatory ######-### who deserves more punishment than he will receive, but Kraft is no innocent and should have been held accountable for participating in human sex trafficking.
if people think what Watson did is the same as Kraft....not much you can say.....I don't remember hearing anything about Kraft "harassing" the girls....
Both Kraft and Watson tried to turn massages into sex acts. The principal difference in their crimes is Watson participated in two dozen instances of "non-violent sexual harassment" and Kraft participated in human sex trafficking.

Did Kraft who, on paper, is supposed to be held to a higher standard even get a slap on the wrist?

Watson deserves every punishment that is coming to him, and probably far more. A lifetime ban would be great IMO. It's shameful that Kraft got a free pass.
As far as Kraft goes, living in NE, his situation stayed in the news seemingly forever. This is what I remember (all of which likely played a role in Kraft's case getting tossed and the league letting him skate). There were a lot of shenanigans with the Kraft case.

- The local DA exaggerated in the application for a search warrant and used provisions in the Patriot Act to secure a warrant. Other massage parlors in Florida had trafficking issues and there was a much bigger operation at other spas. The DA alleged there was human sex trafficking going on at that location (when they knew there wasn't). By duping the judge, that allowed them to fake a bomb threat to empty the building and put cameras inside the massage parlor. By the time they filed for a search warrant, law enforcement pretty much knew there was only prostitution going on at Orchids of Asia (it had been under investigation for 8 months).

- They recorded everything that went on, and some patrons paid for extended services. Some did, but most did not. IIRC, there were no allegations of harassment or coercion to force the women to participate. It was essentially a menu item. Once they had the johns on tape, the police stopped the men on bogus traffic stops to get their information (and later would charge them with prostitution). In Kraft's case, he wasn't even driving (he had a driver), and there was no reason for the car he was in to be pulled over. Yet he had to produce an ID anyway.

- Once the DA figured out he landed a big fish, he played it out that the Patriots owner was caught red-handed in a human sex trafficking ring (when there wasn't one) and intimidated that's what Kraft would be charged with (when he was not). The DA also loved the publicity and IIRC was up for reelection soon and basked in the limelight. He told reporters “Human trafficking is evil in our midst. “Modern-day slavery” can happen anywhere, including in the peaceful community of Jupiter, Florida.”

- Kraft's attorneys tore the DA's case to shreds, the video got tossed, the case fell apart, there was no usable evidence, and the charges to all of the johns were dismissed. It was rumored that Kraft threatened to sue if the league tried to impose any punishment on him on something where the charges were dropped, the evidence destroyed, and the case was botched.

Is what widower Kraft did on par to what Watson did? Maybe, maybe not. The main difference is some of the women Watson picked for massages apparently did not offer an extended menu of services. Kraft went to a spot where people knew that you could ask for more and that was both known and commonplace.

Law enforcement is super shady. It's hard to believe anything they say.

Blanket statement. No exceptions, no gray area. Don't believe any officer of the law, huh? Good Lord.

I don't want to get off topic here but given my experience I wouldn't trust most people of the law. I've had people try and charge me for just being in the wrong place wrong time, illegally searched, Bullied by a school officer etc. The only cops I've ever trusted are those I know who were friends of mine from school. I've also seen minority friends stopped and harassed for BS as well. Lets just leave it I'm very hesitant trusting law enforcement if I don't know them already. I might ask a cop if I'm lost in the city for directions but depending where in Philly you are the cops kind of cowboy it up and become the aggressor on you If you're in the wrong part of town.
 

DJackson10

Footballguy
but hey, let's trot out the multi spousal abuser, multi accused rapist Jim Brown out there as the friggin face of the NFL. LOl. just oozes hypocrisy. Robert Kraft got caught with his pants down in a massage parlor apparently harassing the girls who put the oil on his back,etc. but that scumbag gets off without a charge? wtf is going on with the NFL. Ray Rice carrer ruined. Jim Brown beats the **** out of a number of women, attempts to rape or actually does rape but victims refuse to testify because he trheatens to beat the **** out of them, and he's introducing player at the NFL draft, gets cushy meet-n-greet gigs the NFL sponsors. any one of you who has a jim brown signed shirt,hat,helmet, football should be ****ing ashamed of yourself for condoning this scumbag in his thug career of violence and reported, repeated rapes.*allegedly*
What do you mean by "harassing"...is there evidence that he put them in a position they didn't want to be in...?..."harassed" girls"....what exactly does that mean when you say it like you did....did he somehow force them into a rub and tug.....?....or was it consensual and basically a business deal...?
Does it really matter? Do we think he got caught at a strip mall rub'n'tug by accident? Some kind of innocent mistake?

He went there for an Old Fashioned and got popped. The league has codified, in writing, that owners are to be held to a higher standard. Clearly that isn't the reality.

Watson is a predatory ######-### who deserves more punishment than he will receive, but Kraft is no innocent and should have been held accountable for participating in human sex trafficking.
if people think what Watson did is the same as Kraft....not much you can say.....I don't remember hearing anything about Kraft "harassing" the girls....
Both Kraft and Watson tried to turn massages into sex acts. The principal difference in their crimes is Watson participated in two dozen instances of "non-violent sexual harassment" and Kraft participated in human sex trafficking.

Did Kraft who, on paper, is supposed to be held to a higher standard even get a slap on the wrist?

Watson deserves every punishment that is coming to him, and probably far more. A lifetime ban would be great IMO. It's shameful that Kraft got a free pass.
And this is the perfect illustration of why “whataboutism” is a logical fallacy.

Pointing out that someone else got away with something without penalty doesn’t excuse or minimize another person’s actions. It highlights the fact that the other party should be punished as well.

Both Kraft & Watson should be punished, and it’s inexcusable that Kraft largely skated unscathed, save for public humiliation.

Unfortunately Kraft is part of a privileged class of society that often avoids such consequences.

But that has no bearing on whether Watson should be punished for his own actions.

Very good point on Kraft. He's part of a class of elites that even if they get punished it's a laughable slap on the wrist. They have high profile lawyers and most probably run with people you wouldn't want to involve yourself in with some pretty shady stuff.

However Watson should be punished and both should be punished but we can't look at these two situations equally here. I'm pretty critical on the whole punishment thing. I'm a 1 strike and you are out on this domestic violence etc. Do it once and ban for life. This job is a privilege not an entitled right. You want to screw that chance of all that talent up being immature, acting like you are in a gang, some elitist, mobster, etc you get exactly what you deserve. Good bye. To me it doesn't matter if you are Patrick Mahomes, Tom Brady or 3rd string Back up TE. You lost your privilege. Go get a 9-5 job or have fun flipping burgers at the Local In and Out or McDonald's where you can sulk and maybe finally realize I need to grow up and act like an adult because I just screwed up an awesome chance in life numerous people wish they got.

It frustrates me and saddens me seeing some of these guys with their heads so far up their asses they are willing to throw all that away and for what? Impress a few friends or something who will turn your back on ya when things go south?
I get what you’re saying, and for the most part I agree. Except for one nit to pick:

The players earned their jobs. Yes, it’s a privilege, but they aren’t necessarily privileged - many of them came from nothing. They have what they have because they fought tooth and nail for it, and likely from a very young age.

Some players do stupid #### exactly because of that. And I’m not excusing their behavior, just saying. We are all a product of our environment.

But yeah, both Kraft & Watson largely avoided consequences, so I guess that’s a level of privilege most of us don’t enjoy. Watson’s consequences will sound harsh, but are they? Take a year off then make 10s of millions. Poor guy. 🥹

I agree on that to an extent but there's only so much you can blame on "environment you grew up in". To me after awhile it just becomes an easy cop out. Most of these guys I'm sure had mentors/father figures etc when in College trying to teach them the good they should've learned while still kids. Eventually it falls on you the player. No one can help you and your issues till you help yourself. And trust me I've been around former and current athletes in a lot of sports and there's a lot of entitlement and my right to play out there.
 

Chaka

Footballguy
Chaka, lifetime ban? Jeez.

I think you’re being a bit hard on the guy.
Maybe, but step back and consider that 24 women accused him of "non-violent sexual harassment", he solicited 60+ such encounters over a 17 month time frame (when, I am pretty sure the Texans would have given him all the free massages he needed) and has not only shown zero remorse, but apparently still believes he did nothing wrong in the first place (ie he seems to believe "they really wanted it").

Yeah, I have no problem with kicking that guy out of the league.

Then again, I think there are more than a few guys that should be kicked out of the league.
Are we 100% sure all of these women are telling the truth regarding what exactly happened?
I’m not trying to defend Watson but it’s difficult to believe that every single one of these 24 women didn’t know what they were getting into. It wouldn’t surprise me if at least some of the “arrangements” were agreed upon and then when word broke about this whole story and a possible settlement, some women changed their story.
Is this really the direction you want to take this conversation? I understand you're not defending him IMO when it hits 24, I think enough of them are telling the truth to warrant my stance on his punishment.
 

DJackson10

Footballguy
Chaka, lifetime ban? Jeez.

I think you’re being a bit hard on the guy.
Maybe, but step back and consider that 24 women accused him of "non-violent sexual harassment", he solicited 60+ such encounters over a 17 month time frame (when, I am pretty sure the Texans would have given him all the free massages he needed) and has not only shown zero remorse, but apparently still believes he did nothing wrong in the first place (ie he seems to believe "they really wanted it").

Yeah, I have no problem with kicking that guy out of the league.

Then again, I think there are more than a few guys that should be kicked out of the league.
Are we 100% sure all of these women are telling the truth regarding what exactly happened?
I’m not trying to defend Watson but it’s difficult to believe that every single one of these 24 women didn’t know what they were getting into. It wouldn’t surprise me if at least some of the “arrangements” were agreed upon and then when word broke about this whole story and a possible settlement, some women changed their story.
Is this really the direction you want to take this conversation? I understand you're not defending him IMO when it hits 24, I think enough of them are telling the truth to warrant my stance on his punishment.

let alone how he's reacted as well.
 

Chaka

Footballguy
Chaka, lifetime ban? Jeez.

I think you’re being a bit hard on the guy.
Maybe, but step back and consider that 24 women accused him of "non-violent sexual harassment", he solicited 60+ such encounters over a 17 month time frame (when, I am pretty sure the Texans would have given him all the free massages he needed) and has not only shown zero remorse, but apparently still believes he did nothing wrong in the first place (ie he seems to believe "they really wanted it").

Yeah, I have no problem with kicking that guy out of the league.

Then again, I think there are more than a few guys that should be kicked out of the league.
Are we 100% sure all of these women are telling the truth regarding what exactly happened?
I’m not trying to defend Watson but it’s difficult to believe that every single one of these 24 women didn’t know what they were getting into. It wouldn’t surprise me if at least some of the “arrangements” were agreed upon and then when word broke about this whole story and a possible settlement, some women changed their story.
Is this really the direction you want to take this conversation? I understand you're not defending him IMO when it hits 24, I think enough of them are telling the truth to warrant my stance on his punishment.

let alone how he's reacted as well.
But, but, but... Tonight he said sorry for the impact he had on the women (with his #####).
 

daveR

Footballguy
I really think he was into massage with a "happy ending". I think, for legal reasons, he couldn't solicit it and made the suggestion in private, in person. Without evidence, I also think there was additional compensation transacted. I personally don't believe there was anything but consensual "interaction" and don't hold a grudge for his dealings. I can only say that this is how things add up for me and I may very well be wrong, but I can understand a "lack of remorse" if correct.
I think what you described is (mostly) within the range of potential outcomes - in at least some of the cases and quite possibly most of them. The guy (allegedly) had massages with 66 different women over a 17 month period, 25 filed suit, 20 settled, the NFL presented 4, and I've never thought it was a gaffe on Rusty Hardin's part to say (paraphrasing) happy endings aren't illegal. That math is...an eyebrow raiser.

If you haven't read the report you should though. What Robinson wrote about those 4 cases painted a consistent picture and I think it's fair to assume those plaintiffs did not have consensual experiences. The others? Well...we'll probably never know, but based on what we do know I don't think your theory is crazy.
I read Sue Robison's report. It looks like Watson's team offered very little in the way of defense, essentially "Everything that guy just said is ********! Thank you." From my point of view, I can see where a minority of the MTs could feel they were blindsided, and I am sympathetic. On the other hand, if my personal "understanding" is true, then the classifying him as a predator is misapplying the term (as well as "egregious"). If, at any time, he pressured anybody to do anything, then I am wrong -- very wrong.
 

Dr. Octopus

Footballguy
I really think he was into massage with a "happy ending". I think, for legal reasons, he couldn't solicit it and made the suggestion in private, in person. Without evidence, I also think there was additional compensation transacted. I personally don't believe there was anything but consensual "interaction" and don't hold a grudge for his dealings. I can only say that this is how things add up for me and I may very well be wrong, but I can understand a "lack of remorse" if correct.
I think what you described is (mostly) within the range of potential outcomes - in at least some of the cases and quite possibly most of them. The guy (allegedly) had massages with 66 different women over a 17 month period, 25 filed suit, 20 settled, the NFL presented 4, and I've never thought it was a gaffe on Rusty Hardin's part to say (paraphrasing) happy endings aren't illegal. That math is...an eyebrow raiser.

If you haven't read the report you should though. What Robinson wrote about those 4 cases painted a consistent picture and I think it's fair to assume those plaintiffs did not have consensual experiences. The others? Well...we'll probably never know, but based on what we do know I don't think your theory is crazy.
I read Sue Robison's report. It looks like Watson's team offered very little in the way of defense, essentially "Everything that guy just said is ********! Thank you." From my point of view, I can see where a minority of the MTs could feel they were blindsided, and I am sympathetic. On the other hand, if my personal "understanding" is true, then the classifying him as a predator is misapplying the term (as well as "egregious"). If, at any time, he pressured anybody to do anything, then I am wrong -- very wrong.
La La La
 

Drunken Cowboy

Footballguy
I really think he was into massage with a "happy ending". I think, for legal reasons, he couldn't solicit it and made the suggestion in private, in person. Without evidence, I also think there was additional compensation transacted. I personally don't believe there was anything but consensual "interaction" and don't hold a grudge for his dealings. I can only say that this is how things add up for me and I may very well be wrong, but I can understand a "lack of remorse" if correct.
I think what you described is (mostly) within the range of potential outcomes - in at least some of the cases and quite possibly most of them. The guy (allegedly) had massages with 66 different women over a 17 month period, 25 filed suit, 20 settled, the NFL presented 4, and I've never thought it was a gaffe on Rusty Hardin's part to say (paraphrasing) happy endings aren't illegal. That math is...an eyebrow raiser.

If you haven't read the report you should though. What Robinson wrote about those 4 cases painted a consistent picture and I think it's fair to assume those plaintiffs did not have consensual experiences. The others? Well...we'll probably never know, but based on what we do know I don't think your theory is crazy.
I read Sue Robison's report. It looks like Watson's team offered very little in the way of defense, essentially "Everything that guy just said is ********! Thank you." From my point of view, I can see where a minority of the MTs could feel they were blindsided, and I am sympathetic. On the other hand, if my personal "understanding" is true, then the classifying him as a predator is misapplying the term (as well as "egregious"). If, at any time, he pressured anybody to do anything, then I am wrong -- very wrong.
You are very wrong
 

Dr. Octopus

Footballguy
I really think he was into massage with a "happy ending". I think, for legal reasons, he couldn't solicit it and made the suggestion in private, in person. Without evidence, I also think there was additional compensation transacted. I personally don't believe there was anything but consensual "interaction" and don't hold a grudge for his dealings. I can only say that this is how things add up for me and I may very well be wrong, but I can understand a "lack of remorse" if correct.
I think what you described is (mostly) within the range of potential outcomes - in at least some of the cases and quite possibly most of them. The guy (allegedly) had massages with 66 different women over a 17 month period, 25 filed suit, 20 settled, the NFL presented 4, and I've never thought it was a gaffe on Rusty Hardin's part to say (paraphrasing) happy endings aren't illegal. That math is...an eyebrow raiser.

If you haven't read the report you should though. What Robinson wrote about those 4 cases painted a consistent picture and I think it's fair to assume those plaintiffs did not have consensual experiences. The others? Well...we'll probably never know, but based on what we do know I don't think your theory is crazy.
I read Sue Robison's report. It looks like Watson's team offered very little in the way of defense, essentially
So your theory is that Watson had sex with a bunch of prostitutes and then those prostitutes all got together and decided to sue him for unwanted sexual advances with no worries about being outed as prostitutes.

Sounds plausible.
 

habsfan

Footballguy
For those in the "consensual" camp, I'm curious what your thoughts are on why he wouldn't confine this kind of transaction to a (much) smaller group of women who were well paid and (presumably) totally fine with it?

If I get my car detailed (or whatever) and I'm happy with the price and work, when I need my car detailed again, I call them back. I don't start from scratch and thumb through the yellow pages to find someone else. That doesn't make any sense.

Watson doesn't appear to have too many (if any) second appointments when it comes to this particular service. There are potential explanations for that but I can't think of any that don't point to something slimy.
 

Chaka

Footballguy
I really think he was into massage with a "happy ending". I think, for legal reasons, he couldn't solicit it and made the suggestion in private, in person. Without evidence, I also think there was additional compensation transacted. I personally don't believe there was anything but consensual "interaction" and don't hold a grudge for his dealings. I can only say that this is how things add up for me and I may very well be wrong, but I can understand a "lack of remorse" if correct.
I think what you described is (mostly) within the range of potential outcomes - in at least some of the cases and quite possibly most of them. The guy (allegedly) had massages with 66 different women over a 17 month period, 25 filed suit, 20 settled, the NFL presented 4, and I've never thought it was a gaffe on Rusty Hardin's part to say (paraphrasing) happy endings aren't illegal. That math is...an eyebrow raiser.

If you haven't read the report you should though. What Robinson wrote about those 4 cases painted a consistent picture and I think it's fair to assume those plaintiffs did not have consensual experiences. The others? Well...we'll probably never know, but based on what we do know I don't think your theory is crazy.
I read Sue Robison's report. It looks like Watson's team offered very little in the way of defense, essentially "Everything that guy just said is ********! Thank you." From my point of view, I can see where a minority of the MTs could feel they were blindsided, and I am sympathetic. On the other hand, if my personal "understanding" is true, then the classifying him as a predator is misapplying the term (as well as "egregious"). If, at any time, he pressured anybody to do anything, then I am wrong -- very wrong.
I think there is an obvious power dynamic when you are a petite service provider alone in the home, or hotel room, of a wealthy, entitled, physically imposing elite athlete.

In a situation like that a lot can be understood even with little, to nothing being openly stated.

Give it some thought.
 

eoMMan

Footballguy
Chaka, lifetime ban? Jeez.

I think you’re being a bit hard on the guy.
Maybe, but step back and consider that 24 women accused him of "non-violent sexual harassment", he solicited 60+ such encounters over a 17 month time frame (when, I am pretty sure the Texans would have given him all the free massages he needed) and has not only shown zero remorse, but apparently still believes he did nothing wrong in the first place (ie he seems to believe "they really wanted it").

Yeah, I have no problem with kicking that guy out of the league.

Then again, I think there are more than a few guys that should be kicked out of the league.
Are we 100% sure all of these women are telling the truth regarding what exactly happened?
I’m not trying to defend Watson but it’s difficult to believe that every single one of these 24 women didn’t know what they were getting into. It wouldn’t surprise me if at least some of the “arrangements” were agreed upon and then when word broke about this whole story and a possible settlement, some women changed their story.

Nope this many women and from different parts of the country its hard to see lying. I'm not accusing you of anything but statements like these is why many abused woman don't come forward in the first place. The doubt many especially men put into the subject of a "woman is lying" "just looking for a payday" etc etc.
My point is that you can go online and easily find these type of illegal activities and plenty of women willing to do them. Like I said, none of us know 100% of the facts here, but I wouldn’t be surprised if at least a few of these women fell in that group.
 

Brownsfan

Footballguy

The video of the interview

Her follow up question should have been: In the previous two interviews you did on this you stated you had no regrets. What changed? Besides having part of your punishment based on your lack of remorse, that is.
that will never happen in Cleveland. If you want access, you toe the company line. Just ask Tony Grossi.
 

Chaka

Footballguy
Chaka, lifetime ban? Jeez.

I think you’re being a bit hard on the guy.
Maybe, but step back and consider that 24 women accused him of "non-violent sexual harassment", he solicited 60+ such encounters over a 17 month time frame (when, I am pretty sure the Texans would have given him all the free massages he needed) and has not only shown zero remorse, but apparently still believes he did nothing wrong in the first place (ie he seems to believe "they really wanted it").

Yeah, I have no problem with kicking that guy out of the league.

Then again, I think there are more than a few guys that should be kicked out of the league.
Are we 100% sure all of these women are telling the truth regarding what exactly happened?
I’m not trying to defend Watson but it’s difficult to believe that every single one of these 24 women didn’t know what they were getting into. It wouldn’t surprise me if at least some of the “arrangements” were agreed upon and then when word broke about this whole story and a possible settlement, some women changed their story.

Nope this many women and from different parts of the country its hard to see lying. I'm not accusing you of anything but statements like these is why many abused woman don't come forward in the first place. The doubt many especially men put into the subject of a "woman is lying" "just looking for a payday" etc etc.
My point is that you can go online and easily find these type of illegal activities and plenty of women willing to do them. Like I said, none of us know 100% of the facts here, but I wouldn’t be surprised if at least a few of these women fell in that group.
Okay but all 25 of them? Highly unlikely and that is the only potentiality, which only exists if you accept the possibility of the multiverse, that makes Watson look like anything other than a predatory, recidivist, misogynistic ######$$$.

The behavior speaks for itself. 60+ of these encounters over a 17 month timeframe when he had access to free massages (PT, whatever) at any time day or night from highly qualified professionals.

There isn't a plausible way to spin this as anything other than solicitation of non sex-workers. He can hang his hat on Judge Robinson calling the offenses non-violent, yippee freaking Skippy.

If you're not convinced by the facts in evidence at this point then there probably isn't anything that I can say at this point that will change your mind. And there is definitely nothing that can be said that will change mind, so I'm going to scratch Watson from my draft board and go back to talking football.
 

MAC_32

Footballguy
For those in the "consensual" camp, I'm curious what your thoughts are on why he wouldn't confine this kind of transaction to a (much) smaller group of women who were well paid and (presumably) totally fine with it?

If I get my car detailed (or whatever) and I'm happy with the price and work, when I need my car detailed again, I call them back. I don't start from scratch and thumb through the yellow pages to find someone else. That doesn't make any sense.

Watson doesn't appear to have too many (if any) second appointments when it comes to this particular service. There are potential explanations for that but I can't think of any that don't point to something slimy.
I think we need input from #FetishGuys on this one.
 

Dr. Octopus

Footballguy
Chaka, lifetime ban? Jeez.

I think you’re being a bit hard on the guy.
Maybe, but step back and consider that 24 women accused him of "non-violent sexual harassment", he solicited 60+ such encounters over a 17 month time frame (when, I am pretty sure the Texans would have given him all the free massages he needed) and has not only shown zero remorse, but apparently still believes he did nothing wrong in the first place (ie he seems to believe "they really wanted it").

Yeah, I have no problem with kicking that guy out of the league.

Then again, I think there are more than a few guys that should be kicked out of the league.
Are we 100% sure all of these women are telling the truth regarding what exactly happened?
I’m not trying to defend Watson but it’s difficult to believe that every single one of these 24 women didn’t know what they were getting into. It wouldn’t surprise me if at least some of the “arrangements” were agreed upon and then when word broke about this whole story and a possible settlement, some women changed their story.

Nope this many women and from different parts of the country its hard to see lying. I'm not accusing you of anything but statements like these is why many abused woman don't come forward in the first place. The doubt many especially men put into the subject of a "woman is lying" "just looking for a payday" etc etc.
My point is that you can go online and easily find these type of illegal activities and plenty of women willing to do them. Like I said, none of us know 100% of the facts here, but I wouldn’t be surprised if at least a few of these women fell in that group.
Some of the 66, sure? The ones that sued, possible but unlikely? The ones the NFL presented, according to the report, no.
 

daveR

Footballguy
I really think he was into massage with a "happy ending". I think, for legal reasons, he couldn't solicit it and made the suggestion in private, in person. Without evidence, I also think there was additional compensation transacted. I personally don't believe there was anything but consensual "interaction" and don't hold a grudge for his dealings. I can only say that this is how things add up for me and I may very well be wrong, but I can understand a "lack of remorse" if correct.
I think what you described is (mostly) within the range of potential outcomes - in at least some of the cases and quite possibly most of them. The guy (allegedly) had massages with 66 different women over a 17 month period, 25 filed suit, 20 settled, the NFL presented 4, and I've never thought it was a gaffe on Rusty Hardin's part to say (paraphrasing) happy endings aren't illegal. That math is...an eyebrow raiser.

If you haven't read the report you should though. What Robinson wrote about those 4 cases painted a consistent picture and I think it's fair to assume those plaintiffs did not have consensual experiences. The others? Well...we'll probably never know, but based on what we do know I don't think your theory is crazy.
I read Sue Robison's report. It looks like Watson's team offered very little in the way of defense, essentially
So your theory is that Watson had sex with a bunch of prostitutes and then those prostitutes all got together and decided to sue him for unwanted sexual advances with no worries about being outed as prostitutes.

Sounds plausible.
My theory is that he wanted a massage ending with release. He alluded to it in texts prior to the actual encounter, but would not be specific. Some of the MTs were amenable (42 of 66?), some were not, and some were genuinely surprised at the suggestion. In his eyes, he was doing nothing wrong inasmuch as he was only seeking, not demanding, the encounter. Do I think the women were prostitutes? No. Nor do I believe he thought of them that way. He thought of them as women he might "Hook up" with for a one-night stand. (Though, I readily admit I've never spoken to him or do I know him at all.)

Regarding the allegations, I found the majority to be identical, boilerplate filings. Several, I found to be implausible, and I wonder if this isn't the reason the NFL didn't present them all.

All-in-all, that's how it adds up to me.
 

Dr. Octopus

Footballguy
I really think he was into massage with a "happy ending". I think, for legal reasons, he couldn't solicit it and made the suggestion in private, in person. Without evidence, I also think there was additional compensation transacted. I personally don't believe there was anything but consensual "interaction" and don't hold a grudge for his dealings. I can only say that this is how things add up for me and I may very well be wrong, but I can understand a "lack of remorse" if correct.
I think what you described is (mostly) within the range of potential outcomes - in at least some of the cases and quite possibly most of them. The guy (allegedly) had massages with 66 different women over a 17 month period, 25 filed suit, 20 settled, the NFL presented 4, and I've never thought it was a gaffe on Rusty Hardin's part to say (paraphrasing) happy endings aren't illegal. That math is...an eyebrow raiser.

If you haven't read the report you should though. What Robinson wrote about those 4 cases painted a consistent picture and I think it's fair to assume those plaintiffs did not have consensual experiences. The others? Well...we'll probably never know, but based on what we do know I don't think your theory is crazy.
I read Sue Robison's report. It looks like Watson's team offered very little in the way of defense, essentially
So your theory is that Watson had sex with a bunch of prostitutes and then those prostitutes all got together and decided to sue him for unwanted sexual advances with no worries about being outed as prostitutes.

Sounds plausible.
My theory is that he wanted a massage ending with release. He alluded to it in texts prior to the actual encounter, but would not be specific. Some of the MTs were amenable (42 of 66?), some were not, and some were genuinely surprised at the suggestion. In his eyes, he was doing nothing wrong inasmuch as he was only seeking, not demanding, the encounter. Do I think the women were prostitutes? No. Nor do I believe he thought of them that way. He thought of them as women he might "Hook up" with for a one-night stand. (Though, I readily admit I've never spoken to him or do I know him at all.)

Regarding the allegations, I found the majority to be identical, boilerplate filings. Several, I found to be implausible, and I wonder if this isn't the reason the NFL didn't present them all.

All-in-all, that's how it adds up to me.
That’s how pleadings work in civil litigation. They’re (Complaints) mostly boilerplate. The real facts come out in discovery through document or other exchanges and depositions.
 

Dr. Octopus

Footballguy
I really think he was into massage with a "happy ending". I think, for legal reasons, he couldn't solicit it and made the suggestion in private, in person. Without evidence, I also think there was additional compensation transacted. I personally don't believe there was anything but consensual "interaction" and don't hold a grudge for his dealings. I can only say that this is how things add up for me and I may very well be wrong, but I can understand a "lack of remorse" if correct.
I think what you described is (mostly) within the range of potential outcomes - in at least some of the cases and quite possibly most of them. The guy (allegedly) had massages with 66 different women over a 17 month period, 25 filed suit, 20 settled, the NFL presented 4, and I've never thought it was a gaffe on Rusty Hardin's part to say (paraphrasing) happy endings aren't illegal. That math is...an eyebrow raiser.

If you haven't read the report you should though. What Robinson wrote about those 4 cases painted a consistent picture and I think it's fair to assume those plaintiffs did not have consensual experiences. The others? Well...we'll probably never know, but based on what we do know I don't think your theory is crazy.
I read Sue Robison's report. It looks like Watson's team offered very little in the way of defense, essentially
So your theory is that Watson had sex with a bunch of prostitutes and then those prostitutes all got together and decided to sue him for unwanted sexual advances with no worries about being outed as prostitutes.

Sounds plausible.
My theory is that he wanted a massage ending with release. He alluded to it in texts prior to the actual encounter, but would not be specific. Some of the MTs were amenable (42 of 66?), some were not, and some were genuinely surprised at the suggestion. In his eyes, he was doing nothing wrong inasmuch as he was only seeking, not demanding, the encounter. Do I think the women were prostitutes? No. Nor do I believe he thought of them that way. He thought of them as women he might "Hook up" with for a one-night stand. (Though, I readily admit I've never spoken to him or do I know him at all.)

Regarding the allegations, I found the majority to be identical, boilerplate filings. Several, I found to be implausible, and I wonder if this isn't the reason the NFL didn't present them all.

All-in-all, that's how it adds up to me.
You said he paid them for sex. That’s where I got that you thought they were prostitutes.
 

eoMMan

Footballguy
Chaka, lifetime ban? Jeez.

I think you’re being a bit hard on the guy.
Maybe, but step back and consider that 24 women accused him of "non-violent sexual harassment", he solicited 60+ such encounters over a 17 month time frame (when, I am pretty sure the Texans would have given him all the free massages he needed) and has not only shown zero remorse, but apparently still believes he did nothing wrong in the first place (ie he seems to believe "they really wanted it").

Yeah, I have no problem with kicking that guy out of the league.

Then again, I think there are more than a few guys that should be kicked out of the league.
Are we 100% sure all of these women are telling the truth regarding what exactly happened?
I’m not trying to defend Watson but it’s difficult to believe that every single one of these 24 women didn’t know what they were getting into. It wouldn’t surprise me if at least some of the “arrangements” were agreed upon and then when word broke about this whole story and a possible settlement, some women changed their story.

Nope this many women and from different parts of the country its hard to see lying. I'm not accusing you of anything but statements like these is why many abused woman don't come forward in the first place. The doubt many especially men put into the subject of a "woman is lying" "just looking for a payday" etc etc.
My point is that you can go online and easily find these type of illegal activities and plenty of women willing to do them. Like I said, none of us know 100% of the facts here, but I wouldn’t be surprised if at least a few of these women fell in that group.
Some of the 66, sure? The ones that sued, possible but unlikely? The ones the NFL presented, according to the report, no.
I think some, yes. I agree that the majority were probably innocent victims that had no idea what they were walking into.
 

eoMMan

Footballguy
And yes, I still go back to my point that if Watson gets a year suspension, Kamara should get at least a year as well when it comes time for his. Beating up a guy (and getting a felony assault charge) shouldn’t result in a lesser suspension than non-violent sexual assault.
 

GregR

Footballguy
And yes, I still go back to my point that if Watson gets a year suspension, Kamara should get at least a year as well when it comes time for his. Beating up a guy (and getting a felony assault charge) shouldn’t result in a lesser suspension than non-violent sexual assault.

So you're saying there is no number of non-violent sexual assaults that are collectively worthy of more punishment by an employer than a single felony assault charge.

I find that a difficult stance to agree with.
 

Ministry of Pain

Footballguy
Chaka, lifetime ban? Jeez.

I think you’re being a bit hard on the guy.
Maybe, but step back and consider that 24 women accused him of "non-violent sexual harassment", he solicited 60+ such encounters over a 17 month time frame (when, I am pretty sure the Texans would have given him all the free massages he needed) and has not only shown zero remorse, but apparently still believes he did nothing wrong in the first place (ie he seems to believe "they really wanted it").

Yeah, I have no problem with kicking that guy out of the league.

Then again, I think there are more than a few guys that should be kicked out of the league.
Are we 100% sure all of these women are telling the truth regarding what exactly happened?
I’m not trying to defend Watson but it’s difficult to believe that every single one of these 24 women didn’t know what they were getting into. It wouldn’t surprise me if at least some of the “arrangements” were agreed upon and then when word broke about this whole story and a possible settlement, some women changed their story.

Nope this many women and from different parts of the country its hard to see lying. I'm not accusing you of anything but statements like these is why many abused woman don't come forward in the first place. The doubt many especially men put into the subject of a "woman is lying" "just looking for a payday" etc etc.
My point is that you can go online and easily find these type of illegal activities and plenty of women willing to do them. Like I said, none of us know 100% of the facts here, but I wouldn’t be surprised if at least a few of these women fell in that group.
The NFL chose the 4 worst out of the 24+, he was found guilty on those 4 women and actually it's possible he settled with a couple more towards the very end, I don't know that for sure though.

Sue the Judge as has been posted a few times found him guilty. She conveyed that Watson being a 1st time offender was given a pretty stiff penalty at 6 games...but it begs the question, are you a 1st time offender if you repeat the offense 4x, 8x, 25x??? These are not easy questions but there doesn't seem to be much precedence for this.

Watson could have gone to Vegas and nobody would have heard a word from the women he might have hired there but he opted not to do that and he also was being aided by Houston Texans' staff and the fact Houston didn't get a penalty thru all of this is pretty surprising to me.

Sexual Predatory Behavior as Sue the Judge outlined, those are the facts. And Watson did have lawyers, defense team, legal counsel for months and months and there wasn't much defense offered.
 

eoMMan

Footballguy
And yes, I still go back to my point that if Watson gets a year suspension, Kamara should get at least a year as well when it comes time for his. Beating up a guy (and getting a felony assault charge) shouldn’t result in a lesser suspension than non-violent sexual assault.

So you're saying there is no number of non-violent sexual assaults that are collectively worthy of more punishment by an employer than a single felony assault charge.

I find that a difficult stance to agree with.
Meh. If I stole a Snickers bar a thousand different times over my life, it wouldn’t come close to a single murder. Ya dig?
 

DJackson10

Footballguy
Chaka, lifetime ban? Jeez.

I think you’re being a bit hard on the guy.
Maybe, but step back and consider that 24 women accused him of "non-violent sexual harassment", he solicited 60+ such encounters over a 17 month time frame (when, I am pretty sure the Texans would have given him all the free massages he needed) and has not only shown zero remorse, but apparently still believes he did nothing wrong in the first place (ie he seems to believe "they really wanted it").

Yeah, I have no problem with kicking that guy out of the league.

Then again, I think there are more than a few guys that should be kicked out of the league.
Are we 100% sure all of these women are telling the truth regarding what exactly happened?
I’m not trying to defend Watson but it’s difficult to believe that every single one of these 24 women didn’t know what they were getting into. It wouldn’t surprise me if at least some of the “arrangements” were agreed upon and then when word broke about this whole story and a possible settlement, some women changed their story.

Nope this many women and from different parts of the country its hard to see lying. I'm not accusing you of anything but statements like these is why many abused woman don't come forward in the first place. The doubt many especially men put into the subject of a "woman is lying" "just looking for a payday" etc etc.
My point is that you can go online and easily find these type of illegal activities and plenty of women willing to do them. Like I said, none of us know 100% of the facts here, but I wouldn’t be surprised if at least a few of these women fell in that group.

There's still a line of respect there. I have a friend who's sister was in that type of work when she went to Vegas since a lot of that is legal in a restricted area etc. No different then being with an adult model/actress. They might sell their body for a living but you still show respect. Just based on everything it sounds like Watson did just that. And going back to a discussion I had with someone who scouted him and said at the time the guys a fake I'm now more prone to believe the dudes just an entitled scumbag.
 

Chaka

Footballguy
Chaka, lifetime ban? Jeez.

I think you’re being a bit hard on the guy.
Maybe, but step back and consider that 24 women accused him of "non-violent sexual harassment", he solicited 60+ such encounters over a 17 month time frame (when, I am pretty sure the Texans would have given him all the free massages he needed) and has not only shown zero remorse, but apparently still believes he did nothing wrong in the first place (ie he seems to believe "they really wanted it").

Yeah, I have no problem with kicking that guy out of the league.

Then again, I think there are more than a few guys that should be kicked out of the league.
Are we 100% sure all of these women are telling the truth regarding what exactly happened?
I’m not trying to defend Watson but it’s difficult to believe that every single one of these 24 women didn’t know what they were getting into. It wouldn’t surprise me if at least some of the “arrangements” were agreed upon and then when word broke about this whole story and a possible settlement, some women changed their story.

Nope this many women and from different parts of the country its hard to see lying. I'm not accusing you of anything but statements like these is why many abused woman don't come forward in the first place. The doubt many especially men put into the subject of a "woman is lying" "just looking for a payday" etc etc.
My point is that you can go online and easily find these type of illegal activities and plenty of women willing to do them. Like I said, none of us know 100% of the facts here, but I wouldn’t be surprised if at least a few of these women fell in that group.

There's still a line of respect there. I have a friend who's sister was in that type of work when she went to Vegas since a lot of that is legal in a restricted area etc. No different then being with an adult model/actress. They might sell their body for a living but you still show respect. Just based on everything it sounds like Watson did just that. And going back to a discussion I had with someone who scouted him and said at the time the guys a fake I'm now more prone to believe the dudes just an entitled scumbag.
I think it is important to point out that none of the 25 accusers are sex workers, they are all masseuses. I know it is easy to conflate the two but they are completely unrelated industries that are unfairly grouped together by ignorant people.

The mostly illegal and underground nature of the sex industry has a negative impact on the legitimate massage industry.

Prostitution needs to be legalized on the Federal level. It's not a perfect solution but it's far better than what we have now.
 

GregR

Footballguy
And yes, I still go back to my point that if Watson gets a year suspension, Kamara should get at least a year as well when it comes time for his. Beating up a guy (and getting a felony assault charge) shouldn’t result in a lesser suspension than non-violent sexual assault.

So you're saying there is no number of non-violent sexual assaults that are collectively worthy of more punishment by an employer than a single felony assault charge.

I find that a difficult stance to agree with.
Meh. If I stole a Snickers bar a thousand different times over my life, it wouldn’t come close to a single murder. Ya dig?

Is the gap between exposing oneself to a woman, rubbing their **** on her, masturbating in front of her and ejaculating on her, all against her wishes... and beating someone up... anywhere near equivalent in your mind to the gap between stealing a Snickers bar versus murder?

They seem an awful lot closer to me. If I did what Watson did repeatedly to your wife, mother, daughter, and every other woman in your life that you care about, you don't think I'd ever deserve more punishment than if I beat a single person badly.

I don't believe you believe that. I think you're just glossing over what Watson did and how many times he's done it to make him sound like he deserves less punishment. I just don't understand your motivation for doing so.
 

eoMMan

Footballguy
I think we’re on very different view points here. All I’m asking is to open your mind a little bit.

I’ll see myself out of this thread because I see I’m in the minority here.

Have a good day all.
 

Chaka

Footballguy
Watson's punishment and Kamara's punishment are entirely unrelated. As was Kraft's lack of punishment.

If Kamara doesn't get what we consider to be appropriate punishment, something we can't really speculate on atm as we are still waiting on the criminal proceedings, then we can discuss it in his thread.

But there is no plausible narrative that makes Watson anything less than a sexual predator ("non-violent" :rolleyes: ). One who, hopefully doesn't get to play football indefinitely, and and gets with an 8 figure dollar fine.

Punishment and remorse first, then football.
 

Chaka

Footballguy
As a comparison to another horrible person, I was completely in favor of Michael Vick getting a second chance in the NFL AFTER, he was punished for his heinous crimes.

I don't like Vick at all but he received more punishment for his specific crimes than any other animal abuser in history. And that doesn't even begin to touch on the financial consequences, he endured.

He did his time and earned a second chance.

I would be fine with an equivalent path back for Watson.
 

GregR

Footballguy
I think it is important to point out that none of the 25 accusers are sex workers, they are all masseuses. I know it is easy to conflate the two but they are completely unrelated industries that are unfairly grouped together by ignorant people.

The mostly illegal and underground nature of the sex industry has a negative impact on the legitimate massage industry.

Prostitution needs to be legalized on the Federal level. It's not a perfect solution but it's far better than what we have now.

Worth pointing out on this topic of the women being sex workers or not.

Watson's lawyer said Watson had sex with 3 of the 22 women (who had filed at that point in time), which he called consensual sex.

Even if giving Watson full benefit of the doubt that is honest, that leaves 19 women who he himself claims he did not have sex with.

The retired judge ruled there was sufficient evidence "Mr. Watson had a sexual purpose – not just a therapeutic purpose – in making these arrangements with these particular therapists."

So are we supposed to believe that a rich, handsome, celebrity athlete who evidence shows was seeking out sex, hired 22 sex workers and struck out with 19 of them? I mean, really?

Maybe someone who jumped to label the women that way or made the claim to lessen what Watson did, should spend a little time on internal reflection why they did so without any evidence to that effect, when even Watson's claims contradict the notion.
 

travdogg

Footballguy
I did get a kick out of the Jaguars crowd heckling Watson while he was in with chants of, "you sick f" perhaps they are just in a chanty mood since AEW started there, but if that is the reception Watson gets in Jacksonville, what's he got to look forward to in say, Baltimore where they actually hate the Browns?

Hell, Steelers fans already have towels if they really want to get under his skin, so to speak.
 

JFS171

Footballguy
Honestly I think a year is rather excessive in a case where the “indict a ham sandwich” grand jury declined to indict on a single charge, in a single case.

I think Watson is a creep. I think he’s got some fetish (obviously) for this sort of thing. I think he’s an absolute buffoon for his handling of just about everything from the moment this came out. But is he a criminal? Harris County DA and Grand Jury said no.

So with no criminal behavior and cases being settled out of court, he’s going to get a year from Goodell’s Wheel of Justice?

Tyreek Hill was arrested for child abuse for allegedly breaking his son’s arm. That DA declined to indict. Hill never got a thing.

I understand the number of cases here is alarming. I understand the circumstances of being in his place vs at a bar or something are much different. But he’s not a criminal, according to the state, and yet he’s going to get a year’s suspension?

It seems a touch arbitrary and capricious.
 

nelly29

Footballguy
Did any of these ladies go to the police within 24 hours of their incidents? I’m just honestly curious as I know that means little to nothing regarding if an assault actually occurred as victims react in many different ways…. I’m just curious about the time lines since so many people were involved and I don’t recall reading an article that had info about time lines between assaults and reports ….Once again I don’t believe taking time to report an assault means the report to be any less valid, I’m just curious if any reported right away since there were so many?
 

DropKick

Footballguy
I did get a kick out of the Jaguars crowd heckling Watson while he was in with chants of, "you sick f" perhaps they are just in a chanty mood since AEW started there, but if that is the reception Watson gets in Jacksonville, what's he got to look forward to in say, Baltimore where they actually hate the Browns?

Hell, Steelers fans already have towels if they really want to get under his skin, so to speak.
Those chants were actually for Urban Meyer, who was in attendance.
 

DJackson10

Footballguy
As a comparison to another horrible person, I was completely in favor of Michael Vick getting a second chance in the NFL AFTER, he was punished for his heinous crimes.

I don't like Vick at all but he received more punishment for his specific crimes than any other animal abuser in history. And that doesn't even begin to touch on the financial consequences, he endured.

He did his time and earned a second chance.

I would be fine with an equivalent path back for Watson.

Honestly I thought Vick should've been banned for life and this is where I first started thinking federal crime charge an athlete should be banned from playing for life. I hated my team signed him and worse hated he was wearing the #7 so meaningful to Ron Jaworski. Look I'm happy he turned his life around, became a better human, seems legit upset what he once did. All of that is great but why does he deserve a second chance that he never gave those dogs?

It's no different then at some jobs where you have to drive for a living. I know vendors in my industry and my friend works as a Phone service vendor. if they get caught with a DUI they are terminated immediately for Just cause They also can never get a job in that field again as they are now a liability. Also the DUI doesn't have to be on the job. It can be off work hours.
 

travdogg

Footballguy
As a comparison to another horrible person, I was completely in favor of Michael Vick getting a second chance in the NFL AFTER, he was punished for his heinous crimes.

I don't like Vick at all but he received more punishment for his specific crimes than any other animal abuser in history. And that doesn't even begin to touch on the financial consequences, he endured.

He did his time and earned a second chance.

I would be fine with an equivalent path back for Watson.

Honestly I thought Vick should've been banned for life and this is where I first started thinking federal crime charge an athlete should be banned from playing for life. I hated my team signed him and worse hated he was wearing the #7 so meaningful to Ron Jaworski. Look I'm happy he turned his life around, became a better human, seems legit upset what he once did. All of that is great but why does he deserve a second chance that he never gave those dogs?

It's no different then at some jobs where you have to drive for a living. I know vendors in my industry and my friend works as a Phone service vendor. if they get caught with a DUI they are terminated immediately for Just cause They also can never get a job in that field again as they are now a liability. Also the DUI doesn't have to be on the job. It can be off work hours.
I think its pretty different. Vick's situation had nothing to do with anything that involved his job. A drunk driver driving for a living is obviously related to their job, especially as the saying goes, if a person gets caught driving drunk once, they've probably done it and not gotten caught 20+ times.

If you think about it, the situation that comes closest to your drunk driving being an immediate career ender for a driver, is actually Calvin Ridley.
 

Stinkin Ref

IBL Representative
Honestly I think a year is rather excessive in a case where the “indict a ham sandwich” grand jury declined to indict on a single charge, in a single case.

I think Watson is a creep. I think he’s got some fetish (obviously) for this sort of thing. I think he’s an absolute buffoon for his handling of just about everything from the moment this came out. But is he a criminal? Harris County DA and Grand Jury said no.

So with no criminal behavior and cases being settled out of court, he’s going to get a year from Goodell’s Wheel of Justice?

Tyreek Hill was arrested for child abuse for allegedly breaking his son’s arm. That DA declined to indict. Hill never got a thing.

I understand the number of cases here is alarming. I understand the circumstances of being in his place vs at a bar or something are much different. But he’s not a criminal, according to the state, and yet he’s going to get a year’s suspension?

It seems a touch arbitrary and capricious.
bolded....this is why these threads suck sometimes..... (1) Hill was never not arrested.....(2) did not break his son's arm....confirmed it was because of an accident....(3) there was never anything for the DA to do because guess what....as it turns out....Hill didn't do anything....his outcome was completely appropriate cause if you followed the "situation" the fiancé admitted to trying to set him up and making false allegations....Hill has custody....
 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
Dov Kleiman, who apparently works for Pro Football Network, tweeted yesterday

"A source tells PFN that a full-year suspension for QB Deshaun Watson is a “slam dunk.” We're currently waiting to hear the decision by former New Jersey Attorney General Peter C. Harvey."

I don't know who Leiman is, who his source is, or how he has intel that no one else seems to have. But I figured I'd post it anyway.
 

KellysHeroes

Footballguy
I'm not standing up for Watson but this whole thing thing is just ridiculous.
Why waste everyone's time with the independent Judge if they knew that were just going to do go with a year anyway?
Hey everyone, we're going to show that our process of determining punishment is fair and if we don't like their decision... Roger will just do his thing anyway.
 

daveR

Footballguy
I really think he was into massage with a "happy ending". I think, for legal reasons, he couldn't solicit it and made the suggestion in private, in person. Without evidence, I also think there was additional compensation transacted. I personally don't believe there was anything but consensual "interaction" and don't hold a grudge for his dealings. I can only say that this is how things add up for me and I may very well be wrong, but I can understand a "lack of remorse" if correct.
I think what you described is (mostly) within the range of potential outcomes - in at least some of the cases and quite possibly most of them. The guy (allegedly) had massages with 66 different women over a 17 month period, 25 filed suit, 20 settled, the NFL presented 4, and I've never thought it was a gaffe on Rusty Hardin's part to say (paraphrasing) happy endings aren't illegal. That math is...an eyebrow raiser.

If you haven't read the report you should though. What Robinson wrote about those 4 cases painted a consistent picture and I think it's fair to assume those plaintiffs did not have consensual experiences. The others? Well...we'll probably never know, but based on what we do know I don't think your theory is crazy.
I read Sue Robison's report. It looks like Watson's team offered very little in the way of defense, essentially
So your theory is that Watson had sex with a bunch of prostitutes and then those prostitutes all got together and decided to sue him for unwanted sexual advances with no worries about being outed as prostitutes.

Sounds plausible.
My theory is that he wanted a massage ending with release. He alluded to it in texts prior to the actual encounter, but would not be specific. Some of the MTs were amenable (42 of 66?), some were not, and some were genuinely surprised at the suggestion. In his eyes, he was doing nothing wrong inasmuch as he was only seeking, not demanding, the encounter. Do I think the women were prostitutes? No. Nor do I believe he thought of them that way. He thought of them as women he might "Hook up" with for a one-night stand. (Though, I readily admit I've never spoken to him or do I know him at all.)

Regarding the allegations, I found the majority to be identical, boilerplate filings. Several, I found to be implausible, and I wonder if this isn't the reason the NFL didn't present them all.

All-in-all, that's how it adds up to me.
You said he paid them for sex. That’s where I got that you thought they were prostitutes.
Understood. It's a fine line, eh? If he was paying for a service and tipped for exceptional attention, then does that constitute prostitution, even if it was his intention all along? I wonder if he went with new MTs often because he wanted to avoid any chargeable offense. (ie. once is a gift, twice is a transaction.)
 

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