QB Deshaun Watson, CLE (3 Viewers)

[-OZ-]

There's no controversy. It's Watson.
Flacco won't be on the team next year.
We saw the real Flacco this weekend. Love what he did for us, but his upside is quite low, sorry to say

The upside was the best QB in the NFL for 4-5 weeks. How is that too low?

Joe wasn’t. Lamar was and it isn’t close.

If it was t even “close”, please explain to me which QB had a better last 5 weeks of the season, and by what metric.

For one, 12/2 vs 13/8

Another, one playoff team (4 seed) beat vs 3 (1, 6, 6)

Joe was a great story. Many of us were cheering for him and he managed to get us to actually want the Browns to win (that’s a Superman feat) but he didn’t play as great as his FF stats would lead us to think. I know I enjoyed the story. I started him most of those weeks and he helped get me into the championship.

Let’s say he led the league in TD passes and yardage during that stretch. You feel that ceiling is too low? Then add that he had a 2.5MIL contract, which is $50MIL less/year than Lamar, is the ceiling still too low. Without looking, I think the Browns had 4 starting QBs this year and none of the other 3 came remotely close to the production that Flacco had. I get that he is older, but production is production.

Being the cheaper QB doesn’t make him the best. Throwing for the most yards also doesn’t make him the best.

 

[abrunn1133]

There's no controversy. It's Watson.
Flacco won't be on the team next year.
We saw the real Flacco this weekend. Love what he did for us, but his upside is quite low, sorry to say

The upside was the best QB in the NFL for 4-5 weeks. How is that too low?

Joe wasn’t. Lamar was and it isn’t close.

If it was t even “close”, please explain to me which QB had a better last 5 weeks of the season, and by what metric.

For one, 12/2 vs 13/8

Another, one playoff team (4 seed) beat vs 3 (1, 6, 6)

Joe was a great story. Many of us were cheering for him and he managed to get us to actually want the Browns to win (that’s a Superman feat) but he didn’t play as great as his FF stats would lead us to think. I know I enjoyed the story. I started him most of those weeks and he helped get me into the championship.

Let’s say he led the league in TD passes and yardage during that stretch. You feel that ceiling is too low? Then add that he had a 2.5MIL contract, which is $50MIL less/year than Lamar, is the ceiling still too low. Without looking, I think the Browns had 4 starting QBs this year and none of the other 3 came remotely close to the production that Flacco had. I get that he is older, but production is production.

Being the cheaper QB doesn’t make him the best. Throwing for the most yards also doesn’t make him the best.

And throwing for the most TDs?

 

[ghostguy123]

Most pick 6's?

 

[-OZ-]

There's no controversy. It's Watson.
Flacco won't be on the team next year.
We saw the real Flacco this weekend. Love what he did for us, but his upside is quite low, sorry to say

The upside was the best QB in the NFL for 4-5 weeks. How is that too low?

Joe wasn’t. Lamar was and it isn’t close.

If it was t even “close”, please explain to me which QB had a better last 5 weeks of the season, and by what metric.

For one, 12/2 vs 13/8

Another, one playoff team (4 seed) beat vs 3 (1, 6, 6)

Joe was a great story. Many of us were cheering for him and he managed to get us to actually want the Browns to win (that’s a Superman feat) but he didn’t play as great as his FF stats would lead us to think. I know I enjoyed the story. I started him most of those weeks and he helped get me into the championship.

Let’s say he led the league in TD passes and yardage during that stretch. You feel that ceiling is too low? Then add that he had a 2.5MIL contract, which is $50MIL less/year than Lamar, is the ceiling still too low. Without looking, I think the Browns had 4 starting QBs this year and none of the other 3 came remotely close to the production that Flacco had. I get that he is older, but production is production.

Being the cheaper QB doesn’t make him the best. Throwing for the most yards also doesn’t make him the best.

And throwing for the most TDs?

TD:INT ratio is more important when assessing “best”

 

[jm192]

I look at him and think--If Flacco can do this with that pass catching group, why not Watson?

Assuming he's 100% healthy. He's interesting to an extent. And he'll be WAY cheaper going into next season. I did some rough draft rankings, he's currently at QB19. So, I'm not saying I love the guy.

 

[abrunn1133]

There's no controversy. It's Watson.
Flacco won't be on the team next year.
We saw the real Flacco this weekend. Love what he did for us, but his upside is quite low, sorry to say

The upside was the best QB in the NFL for 4-5 weeks. How is that too low?

Joe wasn’t. Lamar was and it isn’t close.

If it was t even “close”, please explain to me which QB had a better last 5 weeks of the season, and by what metric.

For one, 12/2 vs 13/8

Another, one playoff team (4 seed) beat vs 3 (1, 6, 6)

Joe was a great story. Many of us were cheering for him and he managed to get us to actually want the Browns to win (that’s a Superman feat) but he didn’t play as great as his FF stats would lead us to think. I know I enjoyed the story. I started him most of those weeks and he helped get me into the championship.

Let’s say he led the league in TD passes and yardage during that stretch. You feel that ceiling is too low? Then add that he had a 2.5MIL contract, which is $50MIL less/year than Lamar, is the ceiling still too low. Without looking, I think the Browns had 4 starting QBs this year and none of the other 3 came remotely close to the production that Flacco had. I get that he is older, but production is production.

Being the cheaper QB doesn’t make him the best. Throwing for the most yards also doesn’t make him the best.

And throwing for the most TDs?

TD:INT ratio is more important when assessing “best”

Ok, we will not agree on whether or not Flacco has an acceptable ceiling height. Good discussion.

 

[ghostguy123]

Flacco beat 4 awful teams. Jags with Lawrence coming off a knee injury that really hampered him. Chicago blows, Houston with no Stroud, jets???
Cmon Flacco lovers.
His last 6 quarters has been abysmal.
He is who he is. I appreciate what he did for a few weeks against those bad teams, but man, any talk of Flacco as our QB next year is just idiotic.

 

[-OZ-]

Ok, we will not agree on whether or not Flacco has an acceptable ceiling height. Good discussion.

ok. I think his ceiling is exactly what we had this last month. A good backup who can beat other backups and put up yardage despite not being consistently accurate.
He looked better these few games than he has since 2014.
For a guy that turns 39 tomorrow, it would be great if we could just accept it as a nice way to end a career.

 

[abrunn1133]

Ok, we will not agree on whether or not Flacco has an acceptable ceiling height. Good discussion.

ok. I think his ceiling is exactly what we had this last month. A good backup who can beat other backups and put up yardage despite not being consistently accurate.
He looked better these few games than he has since 2014.
For a guy that turns 39 tomorrow, it would be great if we could just accept it as a nice way to end a career.

Good point.

 

[MAC_32]

There's no controversy. It's Watson.
Flacco won't be on the team next year.
We saw the real Flacco this weekend. Love what he did for us, but his upside is quite low, sorry to say

The upside was the best QB in the NFL for 4-5 weeks. How is that too low?

He was great for about 7 quarters- 4th q v Chicago, @ Houston, and the first half v Jets. It was a hell of a hot streak and we all hoped it'd sustain, but what happened was of no surprise. His propensity for throwing picks was going to derail the offense it was just a matter of when. Dude earned himself a new contract though. It'll just be elsewhere.

 

[Faust]

David J. Gautieri
Deshaun Watson averaged the same fantasy PPG (18.3) as Patrick Mahomes this past year – if you remove the game he was injured in (exited after 12 snaps).

Now, his entire starting WR & TE corps was a 1st or 2nd round NFL Draft pick.

https://x.com/gurufantasywrld/status/1766523178094936525?s=61

 

[Faust]

Browns QB Deshaun Watson updates shoulder progress: 'We're in a great spot'

 

[Todem]

If Watson can’t regain his form pre massage lawsuits..........the Browns will be miserable with this contract. They probably already are.

He looked so ordinary last season....it was painful. He also lost all his burst he had prior with being able to keep plays alive and also take off. Like a total shell of himself.

Man he was so good before all this came down on him (self inflicted of course and is lucky he is even playing knowing what we know.....mind blowing actually).

 

[-OZ-]

If Watson can’t regain his form pre massage lawsuits..........the Browns will be miserable with this contract. They probably already are.

He looked so ordinary last season....it was painful. He also lost all his burst he had prior with being able to keep plays alive and also take off. Like a total shell of himself.

Man he was so good before all this came down on him (self inflicted of course and is lucky he is even playing knowing what we know.....mind blowing actually).

Agreed.
But that one game was apparently the best game ever played by any QB ever, a master piece. Masterclass in the art of QBing.

 

[Soulfly3]

If Watson can’t regain his form pre massage lawsuits..........the Browns will be miserable with this contract. They probably already are.

He looked so ordinary last season....it was painful. He also lost all his burst he had prior with being able to keep plays alive and also take off. Like a total shell of himself.

Man he was so good before all this came down on him (self inflicted of course and is lucky he is even playing knowing what we know.....mind blowing actually).

Agreed.
But that one game was apparently the best game ever played by any QB ever, a master piece. Masterclass in the art of QBing.

It was.

 

[Faust]

Mary Kay Cabot

#Browns Deshaun Watson said today he’ll be ready Week 1

https://x.com/marykaycabot/status/1775932016934166936?s=61

 

[zeeshan2]

Fun fact: the Deshaun traded netted the Texans Diggs, Tank, Will Anderson, Kenyon Green, a second rounder amongst other picks and Dameon Pierce

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Was interviewed by the Dolphins AFTER they drafted Tua...

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Fun fact: the Deshaun traded netted the Texans Diggs, Tank, Will Anderson, Kenyon Green, a second rounder amongst other picks and Dameon Pierce

Um, no. The Texans made a ton of trades, so you have to factor in the trades.
The Browns traded 3 first-round picks in 2022, 2023, and 2024, along with a 3rd in 2023 and a 5th in 2024.
In 2022 the Texans got the #13 pick from the Browns which they traded (to Philly) down to #15 to select Green who graded dead last of all NFL guards his rookie season and landed on IR and missed last year his second NFL season.
From the deal they made with the Eagles they got pick numbers 124, 162, and 166. The draft capital from Philly is not on the Browns. That is on Philly since they made that deal with the Texans. The bulk of the 22 draft from Cleveland was used to pick a bust guard.
In 2023 the Texans got the Browns first round pick #12. They traded the #12 and their #33 a first-round pick this year 2024 and a third-round pick this year to the Cardinals in exchange for the 4th in 2023.
The Texans used the 2023 #3 pick to select DE Will Anderson who had a fine rookie season with plenty of upside, 7 sacks which tied him for 51st in the NFL and 29 solo tackles which ranked 299th in the NFL.
The Browns gave up a portion of the draft capital for Will Anderson, because they didn't have the #3 pick in last years draft.
The 2024 number one pick #23 will be the Vikings because the Texans also traded that one so they basically traded away every single pick from the Browns. There isn't any way to judge the multi-level deals made after the original deal and say it is all on the Browns. Um, no.
Looks like if you want a bottom line that it is Kenyon Green and what would amount to Will Anderson for Watson and we don't know how that will eventually grade out till its played out.

 

[farfromforgotten]

Fun fact: the Deshaun traded netted the Texans Diggs, Tank, Will Anderson, Kenyon Green, a second rounder amongst other picks and Dameon Pierce

Um, no. The Texans made a ton of trades, so you have to factor in the trades.
The Browns traded 3 first-round picks in 2022, 2023, and 2024, along with a 3rd in 2023 and a 5th in 2024.
In 2022 the Texans got the #13 pick from the Browns which they traded (to Philly) down to #15 to select Green who graded dead last of all NFL guards his rookie season and landed on IR and missed last year his second NFL season.
From the deal they made with the Eagles they got pick numbers 124, 162, and 166. The draft capital from Philly is not on the Browns. That is on Philly since they made that deal with the Texans. The bulk of the 22 draft from Cleveland was used to pick a bust guard.
In 2023 the Texans got the Browns first round pick #12. They traded the #12 and their #33 a first-round pick this year 2024 and a third-round pick this year to the Cardinals in exchange for the 4th in 2023.
The Texans used the 2023 #3 pick to select DE Will Anderson who had a fine rookie season with plenty of upside, 7 sacks which tied him for 51st in the NFL and 29 solo tackles which ranked 299th in the NFL.
The Browns gave up a portion of the draft capital for Will Anderson, because they didn't have the #3 pick in last years draft.
The 2024 number one pick #23 will be the Vikings because the Texans also traded that one so they basically traded away every single pick from the Browns. There isn't any way to judge the multi-level deals made after the original deal and say it is all on the Browns. Um, no.
Looks like if you want a bottom line that it is Kenyon Green and what would amount to Will Anderson for Watson and we don't know how that will eventually grade out till its played out.

You’ve put a lot of thought into this.

 

[Buckna]

Fun fact: the Deshaun traded netted the Texans Diggs, Tank, Will Anderson, Kenyon Green, a second rounder amongst other picks and Dameon Pierce

Um, no. The Texans made a ton of trades, so you have to factor in the trades.
The Browns traded 3 first-round picks in 2022, 2023, and 2024, along with a 3rd in 2023 and a 5th in 2024.
In 2022 the Texans got the #13 pick from the Browns which they traded (to Philly) down to #15 to select Green who graded dead last of all NFL guards his rookie season and landed on IR and missed last year his second NFL season.
From the deal they made with the Eagles they got pick numbers 124, 162, and 166. The draft capital from Philly is not on the Browns. That is on Philly since they made that deal with the Texans. The bulk of the 22 draft from Cleveland was used to pick a bust guard.
In 2023 the Texans got the Browns first round pick #12. They traded the #12 and their #33 a first-round pick this year 2024 and a third-round pick this year to the Cardinals in exchange for the 4th in 2023.
The Texans used the 2023 #3 pick to select DE Will Anderson who had a fine rookie season with plenty of upside, 7 sacks which tied him for 51st in the NFL and 29 solo tackles which ranked 299th in the NFL.
The Browns gave up a portion of the draft capital for Will Anderson, because they didn't have the #3 pick in last years draft.
The 2024 number one pick #23 will be the Vikings because the Texans also traded that one so they basically traded away every single pick from the Browns. There isn't any way to judge the multi-level deals made after the original deal and say it is all on the Browns. Um, no.
Looks like if you want a bottom line that it is Kenyon Green and what would amount to Will Anderson for Watson and we don't know how that will eventually grade out till its played out.

You’ve put a lot of thought into this.

Lots of copium

 

[travdogg]

Was interviewed by the Dolphins AFTER they drafted Tua...

Miami dodged a huge bullet there. They got the better QB, didn't lose any draft capital, and saved a TON of money in the process. Tyreek Hill is never a Dolphin if Watson would have been.

Side note, I'll still forever argue Brian Flores firing was deserved if for no other reason than his handling of Tua, 3 straight non-playoff seasons also hurts.

If Watson can’t regain his form pre massage lawsuits..........the Browns will be miserable with this contract. They probably already are.

He looked so ordinary last season....it was painful. He also lost all his burst he had prior with being able to keep plays alive and also take off. Like a total shell of himself.

Man he was so good before all this came down on him (self inflicted of course and is lucky he is even playing knowing what we know.....mind blowing actually).

Cap be damned, I think Watson is in a make-or-break season. The guy who has played in 2022-2023 is not an NFL starting caliber QB, not even a low-end one. Its been wild, he was a universal top-5 QB after 2020, the guy who has shown up the last 2 seasons, might not be a top-5 QB in the AFC North right now.

 

[Dez]

Trade did not go as planned for Cleveland

 

[TheDirtyWord]

Kind of feel this guy has become so radioactive, he's a pretty great value right now.