Tom Hagen
Footballguy
I think most people recognize there is a difference between being forced to honor a contract already in place and offering him a new contract.
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QB Deshaun Watson, CLE (2 Viewers)
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But to be fair, the more complete statement is: "A player just forced his way out of your club to grab a fully guaranteed 5 year $230M contract that's $80M more than the previous record for fully guaranteed money at signing ($150M)."
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1504907491888537605?s=20&t=BGM-Elo3HtfOldJCnpdJ8g
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Don't start playing obtuse as to how vulgar Watson was in making sure the new contract was inked before he even made the announcement of which team.
-Have no delusions about why Watson chose Cleveland, all $230M of them. He would have waived the no trade clause for any team that will double his salary almost and guarantee it all and make sure he only gets paid $1M this year in case Goodell hands down a hefty suspension which he will.
Watson was vulgar and brazen. Civil lawsuits coming and not an ounce of remorse it would seem, don't think Goodell wasn't watching.
-I was happy that you were happy yesterday or whenever the announcement was made but you all are going to be the most HATED team in the NFL now, you gotta know it's coming.
The Bucs were the most hated the last 2 seasons, as many that cheered Brady jeered him as well. Cleveland took that title with one signature for $230M, deal with it and don't get thin skin all the sudden or you're going to get your feeling hurt in here.
Carry On
Soulfly3
Footballguy
Not worried about that @Ministry of Pain, we were the most made fun of team for... My whole life. Thick skin here.
It's more of a general criticism of how ppl react/dont react to things. 100% expected this all and welcome it. It's a sport... i love hate.
It's more of a general criticism of how ppl react/dont react to things. 100% expected this all and welcome it. It's a sport... i love hate.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
I had never heard of that podcast, so I just spent a few minutes scrolling through the episode list. I gotta say, I'm a huge podcast fan -- I even listen to them all at 2x so I can cram in twice as many -- but the idea of a weekly 3-hour podcast is a little overwhelming. How do they pull that off?
Also, while some of the subjects sound fascinating -- I've always wanted to know the whole Rosie Ruiz backstory -- the prospect of hearing in detail how Meggett drugged and sodomized women, or how some long ago athlete from my childhood who I never had any reason to think badly of was actually a monster, doesn't hold a lot of appeal for me.
Anyway, I do appreciate the recommendation and will check out at least a couple of the less depressing ones.
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
I don't know if it's a good trade based on the draft capital, the potential PR crisis or the overall moral ickiness of the situation, but Watson is in no way overrated
If he's not worth it then he's overrated, no?
I don't know if it's a good trade based on the draft capital, the potential PR crisis or the overall moral ickiness of the situation, but Watson is in no way overrated
MAC_32
Footballguy
We've been a national joke my entire life. The math may be different now, but the outcome is the same and something we're quite used to.
I tend to agree that Watson is not overrated based on the highlights that I've seen. But I'm curious why his QBR have been from 2018-2020 a modest: 11, 7, 12.
I don't know if it's a good trade based on the draft capital, the potential PR crisis or the overall moral ickiness of the situation, but Watson is in no way overrated
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Not sure what numbers you are referring to, but his yearly QBR numbers have been 83, 61, 70, and 63.
Sorry, I'm referring to his rank using QBR in the last 3 years: 13, 7, 12. Never top 5, only once in the top 10. For a $250 million QB. Obviously, QBR isn't the end-all.
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DropKick
Footballguy
First of all, "#HatingBrady" is so 2014...
And, secondly, I wish the Dolphins had signed Watson.
Yes, using the traditional QB rating system. I guess his modest ESPN QBR shows deficiencies in that rating, because by the eye test he's probably top 5.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
GregR
Footballguy
We have no clue beyond our own guesses. There's no guarantee he will even get one, though it would be really inconsistent with past situations if he doesn't.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Tied with Arron Rodgers with 2nd highest in NFL history.
He's going to be suspended and Goodell tends to let those things string out till late into the summer and no-one has a clue how long it will be.
Probably waiting to see the fall-out from the civil suits which will be a PR nightmare.
Jayded
Footballguy
True, though read it as a joke. We know the Browns have been beat up over the years and in recent years appear to have turned the corner.
It was a kidding shot at the Browns, but also a jab at Houston management for sure. They really have to turn the picks into something worthwhile.
GregR
Footballguy
Seems like a straightforward thing that is simple to understand.
He did bad. When it went public, there was outrage commensurate with the level of bad.
Expressed outrage diminished in time as you'd expect with outrage on any topic. Feelings about him didn't go away though as people's attention focused on more current of events.
Cutting him wasn't going to stop Watson from receiving the money his contract stipulated he'd get already. Texans releasing Watson would have been to Watson's benefit, allowing him to go negotiate with the entire league and get even more. So no there wasn't outrage for the Texans. The gesture of principle was only going to hasten Watson getting rewarded further.
So what changed now? He got rewarded. One of the largest and most fully guaranteed contracts in the history of the league. Above the huge contract he already which was near the top of the league when signed.
In short, the optics are the new contract means Watson, and his conduct, got rewarded in a humongous way. And the details of how it went down, ala the Decision, only amplify those feelings.
Thus, outrage.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
IIRC, the largest player related fine was $1 million. No way will they suspend Watson and then fine him 15X the largest fine in league history.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Soulfly3
Footballguy
to change directions on the topic a bit... do you think CLE made such a collosal offer for 2 reason:
1) Lamar and Burrow (in order) still have to sign, and this is the new benchmark
and
2) That offer probably "forced" the Texans into having to accept a lower offer than what we were all led to believe. Everyone seemed to be waiting on Ward, Chubb, Hunt or hell Ive even heard Myles being included in the offer. But not one of them, nor a 2nd rounder included.
Did that monster offer basically have Deshaun say to HOU, "CLE or nothing"?
1) Lamar and Burrow (in order) still have to sign, and this is the new benchmark
and
2) That offer probably "forced" the Texans into having to accept a lower offer than what we were all led to believe. Everyone seemed to be waiting on Ward, Chubb, Hunt or hell Ive even heard Myles being included in the offer. But not one of them, nor a 2nd rounder included.
Did that monster offer basically have Deshaun say to HOU, "CLE or nothing"?
MAC_32
Footballguy
InDitkaWeTrust
Footballguy
Vulgar and brazen? I hope you said the same thing about Aaron Rogers and his cash grab over the past few years. And expressed disdain about every single player leveraging their well above average skill set for a more favorable contract.
Watson's skill set was the entire reason Cleveland ( and new Orleans /Carolina / Atlanta) rolled out the red carpet. They all made the decision that trading lots of draft capital and possibly some player assets was worth having a guy with his skill set on the team. We don't have to like that decision but it is absolutely a business decision. Sales and interest in Cleveland this year will be sky high.
No idea but never underestimate the NFL is all about optics and seeing him turn this into an $80M raise with a contract designed to minimize his suspension while several, mainly female, NFL writers are penning articles or tweets saying how disgusting this is to them won't be lost on the league.
Let me put this another way. As an invested Watson dynasty owner I cringed when he got that contract because I think the NFL will now strive to make his punishment as harsh as possible in a way that Watson can feel it. I don't think something like just a 4-6 game suspension and loss of $235-352K is going to suffice the league. Because I'm selfish I hope his suspension is light and they can fine him or something but I really think the NFL is going to find a way to make it hurt and a few game suspension on $1m base is not it.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
GregR
Footballguy
Obviously no one is saying "hey you harassed 22 women, here's some money". Like I said it's the optics of it. Guy that you think deserves punishment instead is given a reward. Doesn't matter if the reward is for his skills. And a reward that has written into it reducing the punitive aspects of what punishment he might still get.
That's the disconnect that is going to drive renewed outrage. If he'd just been traded under the same contract, there would still be people speaking out, but it wouldn't be as much.
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dhockster
Footballguy
You are probably right, but if Watson wasn’t in a position to renegotiate his 2022 contract, an 8 game suspension without pay would have effectively been fining Watson $17.5 million (half his $35 million base salary
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
OK you win on a technicality. Yes, the trade return on a player does reflect how the market views him. If a team traded the Chiefs every one of their draft picks for the next 10 years for Mahomes, it would be accurate to call him overrated.
I was using the more common understanding of the term: not as good as people think
barackdhouse
Footballguy
The timing? Weren't the Texans essentially forced to pay him last year? Wouldn't they have had to cut him if not? They didn't know about these allegations when the die was cast in that contract. That is why it is slimy now for the Browns (or anyone) to reward him like this.
However, I am in Camp Every Team Has ####ty People on it and not all of them can do what Watson can do. I largely agree this is not new and we can find ####ty people who get rewarded *for their craft* all over the world in every field.
This situation is just another (gigantic) reinforcement to why women largely don't come forward, though.
If anyone is still upset about them adjusting his base to $1M you should just see they did the same thing with Amari's contract and at least understand the team did it for cap space and any assistance it provided Watson was is more a by product then root reason for the adjustment.
DallasDMac
Footballguy
How so? What if they root for no team with someone that has committed a serious crime? Your statement only makes sense if you believe every singe NFL player is guilty of a crime.
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DallasDMac
Footballguy
For me, I wouldn't have supported any team that signed him. In this case, it just hurts as I am (was) a Browns fan.
Damn dude, that sucks. There's enough of us to carry the anti-Brown/Watson bucket that we can cover your share if you still want to be a fan.
As a panther fan I'm glad we lost out. Tried of the hearing the sports radio conversation revolving around the sex assualt deal.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
"Watson needs time to inspect the stadium and do any necessary repairs before moving in. Also the previous owner hasn't left yet and we may need some time to evict him as technically he still has squatter's rights."
More at 11.
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Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
He wasn't going to get traded under his previous contract. Houston had 3 teams they had already accepted trade compensation leaving the 'decision' up to Watson to choose which team and he based his decision off of the contract offered.
What people don't get is guaranteed money can ONLY be done by the owner because he/she has to be CASH RICH, in this case they'd need to have $250 million is cash sitting around, ready to place into an escrow account. Many NFL owners are NOT cash rich and few have that sort of money available.
The outrage with fans is based off of behavior but the outrage within NFL circles is over the precedent-setting fully guaranteed contract which will cause all sorts of headaches since players like Lamar Jackson and Joe Burrow are up for HUGE contract extensions and Lamar made a 'special' tweet to Watson AFTER he signed that contract so expect Lamar to demand an even bigger contract.
Even though you want to directly link outrage of the contract to behavior, trust me, you have missed the boat on how the rest of the league's fury is directed at Jimmy Haslam for pushing the envelope with a fully guaranteed contract.
The contract is a big headache for the league. It will/has changed the NFL landscape and will set in motion all sorts of craziness.
-OZ-
Footballguy
Interesting comp. He's not VY - although unless I'm misremembering, VY displayed some leadership in college, he just couldn't handle the pressure of the NFL (and he sucked because of it).
I'm really undecided on Watson. I want to think highly of his potential, I did last year. But he seems like a great guy and great college qb but I don't know how his game translates and his size is a concern.
I'd love to see him in Houston, succeeding but not too muchthe 2 games each year between him and Mariota would be fun, could become one of the best QB rivalries.
We can do this for any thread probably but some of these are downright funny
Grahamburn
Footballguy
The McNair's are worth what, about $10B? I would have just let him rot and not paid him a dime if the packages from other franchises were significantly better. I don't imagine they were.
Watson obviously chose Cleveland because of that contract offer. That's what they had to do to get him to come there. I don't think it's some new benchmark for other QB's. The Falcons/Panthers/Saints were wise not to match it.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
THE COURT DOCUMENT FILED BY HARDIN
This is an excellent and very short read. I think folks are already set in stone on their position of the player, but worth reding regardless.
This is an excellent and very short read. I think folks are already set in stone on their position of the player, but worth reding regardless.
