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QB Deshaun Watson, CLE (2 Viewers)

DJackson10 said:
This is something I heard from a source and why the Eagles opted out of going after him over a year ago. Dude showed zero remorse and didn't take any of this seriously when they sent a PI there to talk to Watson and Hou. Apparently other organizations felt the same way. A lot of the leaked rumors about X Teams interested were all coming from HOU after most of the big names balked after meeting with Watson and seeing how he reacted to this. Clevland essentially was in a bidding war with themselves. Well played by HOU though and I'm shocked a guy like Berry not only traded for Watson but fell for that old trick. 

I even posted something about this further back in this thread during the draft season leading up to the Watson trade I believe. Also More teams balked do to the number of claims against Watson. If this was 1-2 maybe 3 women more teams would've been interested but when the number kept climbing teams went "hold up we might want to really look into this and be a bit more patient before making a move here." most teams were right in that action. The contract Watson signed with the weird 1st year numbers tells me that the Browns believe Watson will be at least suspended for the year. 
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Also this isn't saying Watson was right either or did anything wrong we don't know that and only the women and him know that truth. However when 23 different women accuse you all with the same story there's a major red flag. On top of that when the accused doesn't think he did anything wrong and doesn't even take this serious in terms of being professional about proving his innocence thats another red flag right there and says something probably happened. Either way if Watson isn't acting professional that doesn't help his case nor did it help HOU trying to move him either. 

 
I’ve heard rumors (on Facebook so who knows) that Watson will be suspended for the entire 2022 season. Take this with a grain of salt until it’s substantiated but just throwing it out there.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
I’ve heard rumors (on Facebook so who knows) that Watson will be suspended for the entire 2022 season. Take this with a grain of salt until it’s substantiated but just throwing it out there.
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I think it is safe to say the Watson & Browns won't exactly be taken by surprise if this happens.  That is why they structured the first year of the deal the way that they did.

 
Godsbrother said:
I think it is safe to say the Watson & Browns won't exactly be taken by surprise if this happens.  That is why they structured the first year of the deal the way that they did.
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I mean I get why Watson would want it that way but it's actually counterproductive for the Browns since their cap savings will come in a year they'll be starting Jacoby Brissett (assuming there is any kind of suspension).

 
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Dr. Octopus said:
I mean I get why Watson would want it that way but it's actually counterproductive for the Browns since their cap savings will come in a year they'll be starting Jacoby Brissett (assuming there is any kind of suspension).
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Agree 100% but I think this was the only way Watson was going to agree to the deal.  

I wasn't in the room but it seems like the Brown's were willing to get on their knees and agree to everything in order to get their man.

 
Godsbrother said:
I think it is safe to say the Watson & Browns won't exactly be taken by surprise if this happens.  That is why they structured the first year of the deal the way that they did.
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It is not an uncommon practice to structure large deals in this fashion even without the looming suspension. I believe Ward’s contact is the same way. Someone posted a long list of high priced players that have had their contracts altered in various years of the deal. 

 
Godsbrother said:
I think it is safe to say the Watson & Browns won't exactly be taken by surprise if this happens.  That is why they structured the first year of the deal the way that they did.
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No it's not. Every deal the Browns have given out recently has been structured similarly. The objective with each deal has been to maximize available cap space this year, so they can roll it forward and help fund those future years. After Hooper's cut today I believe they're north of $40m.

 
If I've learned anything the last couple years it's that the salary cap is there to give cheap owners an excuse not to spend money (We're up against the cap!).  Teams that are actually interested in winning somehow find a way to pay players. The Rams are the poster child but Green Bay and Tampa Bay are not that far behind.

 
I doubt he gets a year. 

Sticking with my original 8 games, reduced to 6 prediction. 

I agree with the dude on the radio who said that’s why the NFL scheduled Browns/Houston for later in the year. It’s as good as any conspiracy theory. :shrug:  

 
Leroy Hoard said:
If I've learned anything the last couple years it's that the salary cap is there to give cheap owners an excuse not to spend money (We're up against the cap!).  Teams that are actually interested in winning somehow find a way to pay players. The Rams are the poster child but Green Bay and Tampa Bay are not that far behind.
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It's built to be manipulated and this regime clearly makes it a priority. $30m was rolled over into last year, $37m into this year, and it may top $40m next year. As is the Browns are just $3m under the NFL cap, but they're > $40m under their cap because of the roll over. This level of fun and games is over though. The Browns are already sitting on $255m in cap commitments next year with a projected cap of $220-225m, so most of this roll over will get eaten up. They'll have more games to play though. 

Watson (like Garrett, Ward, Cooper, Chubb, etc) all have tiny base salaries this year that grow in future years - some more than others. Those base salaries won't stick though. The core pieces will have their contracts re-done and converted to bonuses to make room for free agent signings and increase the rollover cap. I've found the Browns are playing games with the NFL suspension policy quite humorous because while they're playing games it ain't that; it's the cap.

 
MAC_32 said:
No it's not. Every deal the Browns have given out recently has been structured similarly. The objective with each deal has been to maximize available cap space this year, so they can roll it forward and help fund those future years. After Hooper's cut today I believe they're north of $40m.
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I'll take your word for it cause I don't have details of all the Browns deals but I will say that $1 million in the first year out of a $230 fully guaranteed contract seems unusually lopsided.   Maybe the Browns recent contracts are all like that, I honestly don't know.

 
Godsbrother said:
I'll take your word for it cause I don't have details of all the Browns deals but I will say that $1 million in the first year out of a $230 fully guaranteed contract seems unusually lopsided.   Maybe the Browns recent contracts are all like that, I honestly don't know.
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Hey GB,

I believe you.  The cap is a mystery to most and I'm no expert but have caught up on some things that pertain to how the Browns have so much cap space and it is due to giving out large bonuses BEFORE the season begins.

Most NFL owners are not cash-rich like Browns owner Jimmy Haslam so he can pay out a large bonus, basically cash today to a player before the season begins.  Most NFL owners pay a small bonus with large game checks, the SALARY is what counts against the cap.  It is called the SALARY cap for that reason. 

A team like the Raiders get most of their revenue from the team cash flow so they are dependent on weekly game revenue to pay player salaries and are not sitting on a pile of cash.  The owner of the Raiders can't pay out huge bonuses and that is why they had to trade away an enormous talent like Kahlil Mack a few years ago.  Sadly, they simply could not afford to pay him.

Per Browns, next year Watson's cap hit skyrockets to $55 million in base salary BUT the Browns can convert a large portion to a bonus before the season and probably will.  Jimmy can afford to pay out a large-bonus. 

Watson's contract is fully guaranteed, so to create more cap space he will likely convert a large portion of his base salary into a big bonus months before Watson would get the money anyway since his contract is fully guaranteed.  

Watch for this because it will more-than-likely happen next year with Watson's contract.  It is SOP.  Some who are suspicious of anything with Watson will say the Browns are doing it to help Watson, no.  Any owner with Jimmy's cash, who wants to win would do the same thing in order to create more cap room in order to sign free agents and retain talent that would leave in free agency.  

 
Bracie Smathers said:
Hey GB,

I believe you.  The cap is a mystery to most and I'm no expert but have caught up on some things that pertain to how the Browns have so much cap space and it is due to giving out large bonuses BEFORE the season begins.

Most NFL owners are not cash-rich like Browns owner Jimmy Haslam so he can pay out a large bonus, basically cash today to a player before the season begins.  Most NFL owners pay a small bonus with large game checks, the SALARY is what counts against the cap.  It is called the SALARY cap for that reason. 

A team like the Raiders get most of their revenue from the team cash flow so they are dependent on weekly game revenue to pay player salaries and are not sitting on a pile of cash.  The owner of the Raiders can't pay out huge bonuses and that is why they had to trade away an enormous talent like Kahlil Mack a few years ago.  Sadly, they simply could not afford to pay him.

Per Browns, next year Watson's cap hit skyrockets to $55 million in base salary BUT the Browns can convert a large portion to a bonus before the season and probably will.  Jimmy can afford to pay out a large-bonus. 

Watson's contract is fully guaranteed, so to create more cap space he will likely convert a large portion of his base salary into a big bonus months before Watson would get the money anyway since his contract is fully guaranteed.  

Watch for this because it will more-than-likely happen next year with Watson's contract.  It is SOP.  Some who are suspicious of anything with Watson will say the Browns are doing it to help Watson, no.  Any owner with Jimmy's cash, who wants to win would do the same thing in order to create more cap room in order to sign free agents and retain talent that would leave in free agency.  
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Bonus money counts against the cap, it's just pro-rated over the life of the contract.

Also any of these owners have made enough money to pay out bonuses.  Even if they didn't, it would be no problem for them to get a loan based on the guaranteed revenue they have coming in.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
They 'can' get credit lines since they are asset rich but a few are cash poor because they use their cash for other ventures and simply may not have or be able to extend a line of credit.

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I really think that was a one time situation...

It appeared from the outside that it was a no-brainer for the Raiders to retain Mack and sign him to an extension, but that’s not taking into account the equity owner Mark Davis already has tied up in his attempt to move the team to Las Vegas.
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I'm also going to disagree that credit lines are personal.  Each team is a separate entity.  Furthermore, I doubt Haslam is using money from a Rocket Mortgage credit line to fund the Browns.  

 
BassNBrew said:
Bonus money counts against the cap, it's just pro-rated over the life of the contract.
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Correct, which is why the Browns gave Watson a base of $1.035m this year and $46m in future years. They'll covert as much of that into a bonus as they decide to year-to-year with plans on never needing to endure that deferred cap hit because he will be extended before that day comes. A similar approach will be deployed with others, but it'll vary some because they come with shorter useful lives.

 
Godsbrother said:
I'll take your word for it cause I don't have details of all the Browns deals but I will say that $1 million in the first year out of a $230 fully guaranteed contract seems unusually lopsided.   Maybe the Browns recent contracts are all like that, I honestly don't know.
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but you'll take the position, none the less

 
DJackson10 said:
Also this isn't saying Watson was right either or did anything wrong we don't know that and only the women and him know that truth. However when 23 different women accuse you all with the same story there's a major red flag. On top of that when the accused doesn't think he did anything wrong and doesn't even take this serious in terms of being professional about proving his innocence thats another red flag right there and says something probably happened. Either way if Watson isn't acting professional that doesn't help his case nor did it help HOU trying to move him either. 
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the red flag may be that 23/24 different women all have the same story orchestrated by the same huckster attorney. some even needing HBO to convince them to sue.  Another red flag is that most of the massage therapists came from the same source, and just coincidently none of them ever talked to each other about this high celebrity NFL QB with the weird small towel fetish. And then none of them thought better than to proceed with said massage of creepy guy with his small towel and all that would entail regarding his private parts.

on with the celebrity  massage!

 
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Faust said:
Deshaun Watson allegedly offered $100,000 to settle each lawsuit, but his money was rejected for this reason
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gee - headline sounds bad for Watson

maybe another take helps

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/06/02/deshaun-watson-offered-each-plaintiff-100000-last-year-but-required-aggressive-nda/

This is an apparent reference to the effort to settle all cases at the behest of the Dolphins, which wanted all cases settled before it would trade for Watson. As PFT reported at the time, 18 of the 22 cases were ready to be settled. Four of the plaintiffs refused.

Based on the language in footnote 2 to the Smith lawsuit, the nondisclosure language derailed the settlement. Attorney Rusty Hardin recently explained in a podcast appearance with Gabe Feldman that the Dolphins wanted the settlements to include the NDA language.

Earlier last year, a settlement of the claims was derailed because attorney Tony Buzbee, who represents all of the plaintiffs, wanted nondisclosure language and Hardin/Watson did not. Hardin told Feldman that Buzbee didn’t want the public to know how little his clients were getting.

By late October, they would have been getting $100,000 each. That’s the exact amount that initially was requested from Watson as an opening position, before the first lawsuit was filed and all legal hell broke loose.

 
Obie Wan said:
Earlier last year, a settlement of the claims was derailed because attorney Tony Buzbee, who represents all of the plaintiffs, wanted nondisclosure language and Hardin/Watson did not. Hardin told Feldman that Buzbee didn’t want the public to know how little his clients were getting.
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If true, THIS is the weirdest part of the story Ive heard to date, and makes almost no sense to me... not almost, actually.

 
Soulfly3 said:
If true, THIS is the weirdest part of the story Ive heard to date, and makes almost no sense to me... not almost, actually.
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It doesn't make sense logically - I can't see it being true, but anything is possible.

In almost any case like this it would be the defendant seeking the NDA - I don't buy the plaintiffs don't want it known how little the settlement is - why would they care? Not to mention $100k isn't a small settlement for something like this really.

 
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Soulfly3 said:
If true, THIS is the weirdest part of the story Ive heard to date, and makes almost no sense to me... not almost, actually.
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Actually the article says this:

Here’s the quote, from footnote 2 to the petition filed against Watson by Nia Smith: “Of course, we now know that Deshaun Watson offered each Plaintiff $100,000 to settle their cases, but not all would accept that amount, due to the aggressive nondisclosure agreement that Watson’s team proposed.”

 
 
Soulfly3 said:
If true, THIS is the weirdest part of the story Ive heard to date, and makes almost no sense to me... not almost, actually.
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yet 18 of 22 Buzbee client's agreed with the NDA language.

so seems weird that 18 clients on the gravy train ignored his advice.

 
zeeshan2 said:
[SportsRadio 610] Deshaun Watson's attorney Rusty Hardin ended his interview with @SethCPayne & @SeanTPendergast this morning reminding the audience that "happy endings" to massages are not necessarily illegal

https://twitter.com/SportsRadio610/status/1532756778294845440
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Many have said the whole time that team Watson would likely have to make this assertion, as then the issue comes down to consent. 

Still - some attorneys in the Twitterverse suggesting that these are dangerous waters for team Watson to be swimming in. 

 
Obie Wan said:
the red flag may be that 23/24 different women all have the same story orchestrated by the same huckster attorney. some even needing HBO to convince them to sue.  Another red flag is that most of the massage therapists came from the same source, and just coincidently none of them ever talked to each other about this high celebrity NFL QB with the weird small towel fetish. And then none of them thought better than to proceed with said massage of creepy guy with his small towel and all that would entail regarding his private parts.

on with the celebrity  massage!
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Not when I've heard in the past Watson isn't what he's portrayed as by the general public. A few people in the know I know weren't shocked about this There's a growing pattern of Concern with Watson's behavior 

 
zeeshan2 said:
[SportsRadio 610] Deshaun Watson's attorney Rusty Hardin ended his interview with @SethCPayne & @SeanTPendergast this morning reminding the audience that "happy endings" to massages are not necessarily illegal

https://twitter.com/SportsRadio610/status/1532756778294845440
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We don't care about a happy ending. Just if the girls consented to them or were forced into something they weren't comfortable in doing. This lawyer sounds like the type who'd defend rape with the "Well she was asking for it with the way she dressed" cop out 

 
-OZ- said:
Many of us don’t care if he got a happy ending or 24. We do care if those attempts for happy endings weren’t consensual. 
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We got ourselves a winner. We're also concerned a person of power forced people into doing something they weren't comfortable in doing and the fact he thought it was OK because he was famous. 

 
DJackson10 said:
We got ourselves a winner. We're also concerned a person of power forced people into doing something they weren't comfortable in doing and the fact he thought it was OK because he was famous. 
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Your benchmark of concern is severely flawed, as "forcing" an action by a "person of power" both seem to be lacking in these massages.

The massage therapists engaged in the massage voluntarily and were free to stop at any time if they felt "uncomfortable". Why did they even start the massage if the small towel and Watson's creepy history bothered them so much.  

Watson held zero "power" over these women.

maybe they accepted the gig and hung around because he was a celebrity.

 
On my drive to work Knox commented on this & played the presser. And hoo boy did it sound worse than it read.

I’d forgotten that early on Team Watson claimed no sexual contact (citing having a g/f) - and now his attorney is like “let he who hath not received a happy ending throwith the 1st stone!” lol.

And what I didn’t catch in the written recap was him saying “even if they did, it’s not illegal, unless the service is solicited or paid for”

Ok, who out here giving volunteer handies? Is he seriously suggesting that’s what happened 24x?

Oh, and Knox thinks it’s “more likely Watson gets a year than he gets a couple games” and he “wouldn’t be surprised to not see him until week 15.” so take that how you will.

I may be coming around on this being more than 8 games reduced to 6. Team Watson has had a very bad 2 weeks. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
In the full statement he went on the finish that sentence with “unless it’s paid for”, which seems important here. He seems to be suggesting they were all voluntary.

Which, cmon Rusty. 🤦🏼‍♂️
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It's the same message he's been spouting which is that Watson had consensual sex with a few of them. He's probably guilty of poor choice of words but it's the same consistent messaging.

And fwiw I feel supremely confident Watson did not explicitly pay any of them for sex because that actually would run counter to the game he was playing.

 
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