QB Deshaun Watson, CLE (3 Viewers)

[TheDirtyWord]

sounds like we have a pretty decent idea about the answer to this one from the investigative lead detective.  

Let’s not pretend there isn’t corruption in the TX criminal Justice system. Hell, the AG of TX Ken Paxton was actually indicted on fraud charges 7 years ago & is *still* AG.

Just sayin - while asking those blanket questions, we can probably shake off a little doe-eyed innocence in favor of a healthy dose of cynicism. 

Only Texas?

Either we have systems of justice that we as Americans place faith in, or we don't.  But to single out 'Texas'...c'mon dude.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

So now you are questioning a former federal judge's ability to follow procedure?  

No. I’m obviously questioning all judges’ ability to separate themselves from society in order to narrowly view evidence in a vacuum.

Human nature just doesn’t work like that. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Only Texas?

Either we have systems of justice that we as Americans place faith in, or we don't.  But to single out 'Texas'...c'mon dude.

This case is in TX. I’m not singling them out - I’m commenting on the context of this topic.

Cmon dude.  

 

[TheDirtyWord]

This case is in TX. I’m not singling them out - I’m commenting on the context of this topic.

Cmon dude.  

Every case is in a state...of course you're singling them out.  Which states don't have corruption then in their justice system?

The lengths people will go to hold onto a disintegrating narrative. 

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Let's put this out there one more time to avoid the constant misinformation that keeps circulating in this thread:

• The lack of the grand jury returning an indictment 100% does not mean that Watson did not do anything criminal or that he's innocent. Some cases are just too difficult to prove "beyond the shadow of a doubt"- to send it to trial where that will be the standard.
  
• Settling a civil claim does not mean that the defendant did anything wrong necessarily - it's not an admission of guilt  - in most cases its a simple "cost/benefit analysis". 
  

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Every case is in a state...of course you're singling them out.  Which states don't have corruption then in their justice system?

The lengths people will go to hold onto a disintegrating narrative. 

Once again, you use a logical fallacy because you can’t back down from being wrong. 

This topic is not about every state.  the GJ I referred to was in TX. So I commented on a TX grand jury and specifically referred to the investigating detective on this case, who alleged shenanigans between the DA & Rusty Hardin. In TX. And pointed out that the AG in TX was indicted for fraud 7 years ago yet has faced no consequences.

Because again, this is the Deshaun Watson topic, and not the “is the criminal Justice system in American tainted?” topic. 

But by all means, continue your masterclass on logical fallacy usage with whataboutism, false equivalence, straw man, red herring, appeals to XYZ, etc.

There is no “disintegrating narrative” I’m “holding onto” - I merely commented that just because we would love to have an infallible system of Justice doesn’t mean we actually do.

So making blanket statements about what very narrow set of evidence the judge will view is met with some level of earned skepticism. 

Back on ignore ya go. 

 

[Soulfly3]

watson throws for 4tds week one. 2 to cooper. browns beat the panthers, despite a decent baker outing.

looking forward to it.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

watson throws for 4tds week one. 2 to cooper. browns beat the panthers, despite a decent baker outing.

looking forward to it.

I’m not sure what exactly this is, but I bet it’s expensive to treat & difficult to cure. 

 

[Soulfly3]

I’m not sure what exactly this is, but I bet it’s expensive to treat & difficult to cure. 

oh, HSG... it's gonna be a riot in here soon!  

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

oh, HSG... it's gonna be a riot in here soon!  

The only outstanding question remaining is whether you wear a different Josh Gordon jersey every time you post. 

 

[Gally]

Does paying 20 women to be silent and just go away mean anything.....? ...asking for a friend.....

No.  It doesn't mean anything with respect to guilt or innocence.  

 

[Soulfly3]

The only outstanding question remaining is whether you wear a different Josh Gordon jersey every time you post. 

only have one, and it's framed and up on the wall.  

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

only have one, and it's framed and up on the wall.  

I’m not mad, I’m just disappointed.

 

[TheDirtyWord]

Let’s not pretend there isn’t corruption in the TX criminal Justice system. Hell, the AG of TX Ken Paxton was actually indicted on fraud charges 7 years ago & is *still* AG.

Just sayin - while asking those blanket questions, we can probably shake off a little doe-eyed innocence in favor of a healthy dose of cynicism. 

Enlighten me then...how has Ken Paxton, the AG of Texas been involved here?

 

[-OZ-]

Let's put this out there one more time to avoid the constant misinformation that keeps circulating in this thread:

• The lack of the grand jury returning an indictment 100% does not mean that Watson did not do anything criminal or that he's innocent. Some cases are just too difficult to prove "beyond the shadow of a doubt"- to send it to trial where that will be the standard.
  
• Settling a civil claim does not mean that the defendant did anything wrong necessarily - it's not an admission of guilt  - in most cases its a simple "cost/benefit analysis". 
  

Good luck  Eventually people might get it. 
We’ve been repeating the same thing way too long now. 
 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Well this won’t add any more fuel to the fire. I’m quite certain levelheaded discussion will ensue as a result of this breaking news:

“The Texans have settled claims with 30 women who alleged "individuals within the Texans organization knew or should have known of Deshaun Watson's conduct."

The settlements were confirmed by attorney Tony Buzbee, who has represented people alleging sexual assault and misconduct against Watson, who was trade from Houston to Cleveland this offseason. The lawsuit claimed the Texans enabled Watson's alleged behavior by providing "rooms set up for him at the Houstonian Hotel, massage tables provided to him for private massage sessions, and an NDA provided to him from the head of Texans' security." Settling the lawsuits against team could allow the Texans to move on from the nightmarish Watson era.”

I eagerly await the completely reasonable takes that are sure to come.
 

 

[Apple Juice]

Well this won’t add any more fuel to the fire. I’m quite certain levelheaded discussion will ensue as a result of this breaking news:

“The Texans have settled claims with 30 women who alleged "individuals within the Texans organization knew or should have known of Deshaun Watson's conduct."

The settlements were confirmed by attorney Tony Buzbee, who has represented people alleging sexual assault and misconduct against Watson, who was trade from Houston to Cleveland this offseason. The lawsuit claimed the Texans enabled Watson's alleged behavior by providing "rooms set up for him at the Houstonian Hotel, massage tables provided to him for private massage sessions, and an NDA provided to him from the head of Texans' security." Settling the lawsuits against team could allow the Texans to move on from the nightmarish Watson era.”

I eagerly await the completely reasonable takes that are sure to come.
 

My guess is this will push Watson down the list of culpability. New ranking of who's at fault:

1. The women

2. The Texans

3. The lawyers

4. The detectives

5. The virtue signalers 

6. Makers of the massage tables

7. Watson

 

[Apple Juice]

My guess is this will push Watson down the list of culpability. New ranking of who's at fault:

1. The women

2. The Texans

3. The lawyers

4. The detectives

5. The virtue signalers 

6. Makers of the massage tables

7. Watson

Forgot about Robert Kraft. He'd slot in around 5.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

My guess is this will push Watson down the list of culpability. New ranking of who's at fault:

1. The women

2. The Texans

3. The lawyers

4. The detectives

5. The virtue signalers 

6. Makers of the massage tables

7. Watson

That list is so messed up. Clearly, if there were no massage tables, there would be no massages. how are they not number one on that list? It’s an outrage!

 

[Beef Ravioli]

Well this won’t add any more fuel to the fire. I’m quite certain levelheaded discussion will ensue as a result of this breaking news:

“The Texans have settled claims with 30 women who alleged "individuals within the Texans organization knew or should have known of Deshaun Watson's conduct."

The settlements were confirmed by attorney Tony Buzbee, who has represented people alleging sexual assault and misconduct against Watson, who was trade from Houston to Cleveland this offseason. The lawsuit claimed the Texans enabled Watson's alleged behavior by providing "rooms set up for him at the Houstonian Hotel, massage tables provided to him for private massage sessions, and an NDA provided to him from the head of Texans' security." Settling the lawsuits against team could allow the Texans to move on from the nightmarish Watson era.”

I eagerly await the completely reasonable takes that are sure to come.
 

Next lawsuit - NFL? 

 

[Gopher State]

Next lawsuit - NFL? 

Probably, easy money going forward.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

How did Houston settle 30 claims? Were there women that sued only the Texans and not Watson?

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Probably, easy money going forward.

They're all in an under the rug-sweepin kinda mood. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

How did Houston settle 30 claims? Were there women that sued only the Texans and not Watson?

Seems so. It would have to be. 

 

[MAC_32]

She works for the Browns? No? 

No.

as an intelligent, connected, professional woman, i think we should take some of her comments with a little extra attention in this matter. 

I forget when I came to this conclusion, but her sources seem to be players and agents. If this particular tweet came from a source I'd be shocked if it isn't someone from one of those groups. Based on its wording I don't think this came from anyone, but I'm sure it made certain players and agents happy to read.

 

[-OZ-]

Well this won’t add any more fuel to the fire. I’m quite certain levelheaded discussion will ensue as a result of this breaking news:

“The Texans have settled claims with 30 women who alleged "individuals within the Texans organization knew or should have known of Deshaun Watson's conduct."

The settlements were confirmed by attorney Tony Buzbee, who has represented people alleging sexual assault and misconduct against Watson, who was trade from Houston to Cleveland this offseason. The lawsuit claimed the Texans enabled Watson's alleged behavior by providing "rooms set up for him at the Houstonian Hotel, massage tables provided to him for private massage sessions, and an NDA provided to him from the head of Texans' security." Settling the lawsuits against team could allow the Texans to move on from the nightmarish Watson era.”

I eagerly await the completely reasonable takes that are sure to come.
 

“The Texans should be suspended for a year” 

as a titans fan I approve that message. 

 

[Beef Ravioli]

Well this won’t add any more fuel to the fire. I’m quite certain levelheaded discussion will ensue as a result of this breaking news:

“The Texans have settled claims with 30 women who alleged "individuals within the Texans organization knew or should have known of Deshaun Watson's conduct."

The settlements were confirmed by attorney Tony Buzbee, who has represented people alleging sexual assault and misconduct against Watson, who was trade from Houston to Cleveland this offseason. The lawsuit claimed the Texans enabled Watson's alleged behavior by providing "rooms set up for him at the Houstonian Hotel, massage tables provided to him for private massage sessions, and an NDA provided to him from the head of Texans' security." Settling the lawsuits against team could allow the Texans to move on from the nightmarish Watson era.”

I eagerly await the completely reasonable takes that are sure to come.
 

So are the Texans guilty since they settled with these 30? 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

So are the Texans guilty since they settled with these 30? 

That’s the sort of rational,  level-headed take I was expecting.

 

[Beef Ravioli]

That’s the sort of rational,  level-headed take I was expecting.

Glad to meet your expectations. 
 

We’ve heard it before though, right? 

 

[Bracie Smathers]

No. I’m obviously questioning all judges’ ability to separate themselves from society in order to narrowly view evidence in a vacuum.

Human nature just doesn’t work like that. 

Human nature is not the law of the land, we have judges presiding over the law which is the law of the land, and the law is based on procedure.

Sue Robinson has a lengthy and credible history as a federal judge and knows how to follow procedure.  She knows what is and is not evidence.

Judge  To make a decision or reach a conclusion after examining all the factual evidence presented. To form an opinion after evaluating the facts and applying the law.

law  1. A rule of conduct or procedure established by custom, agreement, or authority.

Former federal Judge Sue L. Robinson is the Disciplinary Officer who would hear Deshaun Watson case

The NFL’s new procedure for imposing discipline under the Personal Conduct Policy incorporates a Disciplinary Officer, who is jointly appointed and paid by the NFL and the NFL Players Association. The person retained for that position is former federal Judge Sue L. Robinson.

Who is Sue L. Robinson, the retired federal judge hearing the Deshaun Watson disciplinary case?

Robinson has authored dozens of legal opinions and presided over more than 100 trials and 1,500 lawsuits in such cases.

“I take my responsibilities as a trial judge seriously, as do my colleagues,” she said. “We have taken an oath to give every party in our court due process, regardless who the party is. Ensuring due process means giving every party a fair and reasonable opportunity to demonstrate the merits of its allegations.”

-----------------------

 

[TheWinz]

Comical.  Some are in here just stirring the pot, while others seem to think they are lawyers.  No one at this point has any clue what's going to happen.  The masses are basically trying to will themselves into 6-8 games.  It may happen, it may not.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Comical.  Some are in here just stirring the pot, while others seem to think they are lawyers.  No one at this point has any clue what's going to happen.  The masses are basically trying to will themselves into 6-8 games.  It may happen, it may not.

Or some of us are lawyers. 

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Does anyone know why Houston settled 30 cases when there were only 24 filed against DeShaun? Where did those 6 other cases come from?

 

[TheWinz]

Does anyone know why Houston settled 30 cases when there were only 24 filed against DeShaun? Where did those 6 other cases come from?

Why?  My first guess is because the Houston Texans are richer than Deshaun Watson.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Does anyone know why Houston settled 30 cases when there were only 24 filed against DeShaun? Where did those 6 other cases come from?

It is a different case based on the Texans actions.  

Time for the NFL to penalize the Houston Texans for their role in the Deshaun Watson case – Terry Pluto

A New York Times story by Jenny Vrentas revealed how the Texans supplied Watson with a suite at a Houston hotel, where the quarterback met various massage therapists. The story also stated a member of the Texans organization gave Watson a non-disclosure agreement form. Watson was supposed to have those signed by the therapists before the massages began.

This is disgraceful conduct by the team, which should have demanded Watson receive his treatments at the team facility. At the very least, the team should not have helped Watson in his unsavory activities.

--------

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Human nature is not the law of the land, we have judges presiding over the law which is the law of the land, and the law is based on procedure.

Sue Robinson has a lengthy and credible history as a federal judge and knows how to follow procedure.  She knows what is and is not evidence.

Judge  To make a decision or reach a conclusion after examining all the factual evidence presented. To form an opinion after evaluating the facts and applying the law.

law  1. A rule of conduct or procedure established by custom, agreement, or authority.

Former federal Judge Sue L. Robinson is the Disciplinary Officer who would hear Deshaun Watson case

The NFL’s new procedure for imposing discipline under the Personal Conduct Policy incorporates a Disciplinary Officer, who is jointly appointed and paid by the NFL and the NFL Players Association. The person retained for that position is former federal Judge Sue L. Robinson.

Who is Sue L. Robinson, the retired federal judge hearing the Deshaun Watson disciplinary case?

Robinson has authored dozens of legal opinions and presided over more than 100 trials and 1,500 lawsuits in such cases.

“I take my responsibilities as a trial judge seriously, as do my colleagues,” she said. “We have taken an oath to give every party in our court due process, regardless who the party is. Ensuring due process means giving every party a fair and reasonable opportunity to demonstrate the merits of its allegations.”

-----------------------

Which, again, describes the pinnacle of legal obligation, not the reality.

Sue Robinson is also a human being. Humans are fallible.

The world is an imperfect place and judges along with it. A quick Google on “corrupt judge” sure does return a lot of results. I bet people said they were of high character too, before they were caught.

Sue Robinson is a fine judge, I’m sure. But she’s not a robot. Humans are influenced by their lived experiences. Robinson is not exempt from that, and reading me her resume doesn’t convince me otherwise. 

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Sue Robinson is also a human being

As are all judges so none are capable of doing their jobs?

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Why?  My first guess is because the Houston Texans are richer than Deshaun Watson.

But it’s easy to add both parties to the lawsuit - sure Houston has deeper pockets but why not reach into both pockets?

 

[Bracie Smathers]

But it’s easy to add both parties to the lawsuit - sure Houston has deeper pockets but why not reach into both pockets?

Different case, different set of circumstances.

I'm not a lawyer like you but I'd hazard a guess that the threshold of those different cases has lower levels to determine preponderance of the evidence that the Texans decided not to fight.  

 

[Dr. Octopus]

It is a different case based on the Texans actions.  

Time for the NFL to penalize the Houston Texans for their role in the Deshaun Watson case – Terry Pluto

A New York Times story by Jenny Vrentas revealed how the Texans supplied Watson with a suite at a Houston hotel, where the quarterback met various massage therapists. The story also stated a member of the Texans organization gave Watson a non-disclosure agreement form. Watson was supposed to have those signed by the therapists before the massages began.

This is disgraceful conduct by the team, which should have demanded Watson receive his treatments at the team facility. At the very least, the team should not have helped Watson in his unsavory activities.

--------

I get it’s a different claim (although arising from the same alleged indents). 

The Texans are claimed to have aided Watson to commit his “assaults” when they knew or should have known what was going on.

It still doesn’t add up. 

 

[daveR]

Comical.  Some are in here just stirring the pot, while others seem to think they are lawyers.  No one at this point has any clue what's going to happen.  The masses are basically trying to will themselves into 6-8 games.  It may happen, it may not.

True.  IMO, people are trying to say something like, "I doubt ALL of the lawsuits are legit, but I bet some are.  So, I'd say a medium sized punishment fits a medium sized set of allegations", which creates a "just" balance in one's mind, stemming from a lack of specific facts.  The Court of Public Opinion likes to judge in a "fair" way that finds a path of minimal resistance. Such a path to exoneration doesn't exist.  

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Different case, different set of circumstances.

I'm not a lawyer like you but I'd hazard a guess that the threshold of those different cases has lower levels to determine preponderance of the evidence that the Texans decided not to fight.  

It’s not different cases (just different claims of negligence) - from what I understood Buzbee added the Texans as defendants to the existing cases against Watson. I’ll admit maybe I’m wrong on that.

Its not really easier to prove the cases against the Texans because if Watson wasn’t doing anything wrong, then the Texans did nothing wrong. The entire claim is that they aided Watson - when they knew or should have known that he was allegedly assaulting and/pr exposing himself to these women.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

As are all judges so none are capable of doing their jobs?

Didn’t say that.

what I said was they can all be influenced by lived experience and part of that is knowing that there were 60+ women originally, not just 4.

She may be a judge, but she hasn’t been living under a rock. 

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I guess why I’m confused is that would then mean at least 30 women are now making accusations against Watson but only 24 sued him while 30 sued the Texans - there’s nothing to claim against the Texans other than they made it easier for Watson to commit his transgressions. If the “extra” six women say Watson did nothing wrong - they have no damages against the Texans.

I’m sure I’m missing something.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Its not really easier to prove the cases against the Texans

Wouldn't it be easier to prove or disprove they furnished him with a hotel suite and supplied him with NDAs?  Or if he had legit medical need of massage treatments that he has them at team facilities?

I'm assuming they have hard copies of the NDAs and hotel records and can note free access to team massage facilities.   

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Wouldn't it be easier to prove or disprove they furnished him with a hotel suite and supplied him with NDAs?  Or if he had legit medical need of massage treatments that he has them at team facilities?

I'm assuming they have hard copies of the NDAs and hotel records and can note free access to team massage facilities.   

These were settlements - but if this went to trial it would need to be established that Watson did something to these women in order for the Texans to have done something wrong.

If Watson was a perfect gentleman during every massage session, the Texans wouldn’t have done anything wrong by supplying rooms or even the NDA.
 

So yes the “paper trail” is easier to establish in the case against the Texans - it’s not a “he said, she said” scenario, but once again the Texans liability is based on them making it easier for Watson to allegedly assault these women and help cover it up. 

 

[Dr. Octopus]

In simple terms the plaintiffs would first need to show Watson was a bad actor and the Texans knew or should have known that he was up to no good. So even if it’s “easier” to present evidence of what the Texans did - the plaintiffs still need to establish that Watson did some bad things to these women. If not they’d have no claims against the Texans. What they did was only negligent BECAUSE of Watson being creepy.

ETA - supplying massage rooms for Watson and an NDA in and of itself is fine - doing so to assist a “crime” and then helping cover it up is not fine.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

If Watson was a perfect gentleman during every massage session, the Texans wouldn’t have done anything wrong by supplying rooms or even the NDA.

In supplying a hotel suite and NDAs it 'seems' the team 'suspected' activities that were not legal even if they 'suspected' pay-for-sex activities which 'seems' very-likely or to put it another way, highly 'UN-likely' that they held no suspicions if they provided NDAs which would be on record and easy to prove. 

 

[Bracie Smathers]

they can all be influenced by lived experience

Every case has evidence that is allowable and evidence that is not allowable, not just this case.  All cases are judged by humans, so the job is the same for all cases including this case.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

In supplying a hotel suite and NDAs it 'seems' the team 'suspected' activities that were not legal even if they 'suspected' pay-for-sex activities which 'seems' very-likely or to put it another way, highly 'UN-likely' that they held no suspicions if they provided NDAs which would be on record and easy to prove. 

Well yes - that’s the claim. And yes that’s easy to prove. But first there would need to be a bad act that they were aiding. If not what damages did they cause?

I review NDAs almost every day - none are to cover up illegal activities. 
 

If Watson behaved for the massage and wanted the women to sign an NDA after just because he’s a private person and didn’t want them going public, there would be nothing wrong with that.