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QB Deshaun Watson, CLE (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
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Catbird
Footballguy
I agree with you, Stinkin Ref. It would be kind of hypocritical for you and Winz to go on now and benefit from having Watson star on your teams. I'd say the same for HSG, but he has been loud and clear up front that he doesn't care what crimes and offenses players perpetrate, he plays to win with whatever players are eligible and playing.
On your concern about residual effects, since no one was physically injured, I think fans will make it the source of jokes for his whole career, but that team loyalties will determine how they feel about him playing. As to teammates, these guys go through hell and heavy trauma every week to win together. They have each other's backs. Once the league admitted there was no violence, force or coercion, I think it will dissipate quickly if he meshes with the team, plays all out and has their backs as they have his. He was more than a stand up guy before this all came to light and I suspect that is who they will know and see him as - but then, I know very little about the dynamics of pro sports locker rooms?
On your concern about residual effects, since no one was physically injured, I think fans will make it the source of jokes for his whole career, but that team loyalties will determine how they feel about him playing. As to teammates, these guys go through hell and heavy trauma every week to win together. They have each other's backs. Once the league admitted there was no violence, force or coercion, I think it will dissipate quickly if he meshes with the team, plays all out and has their backs as they have his. He was more than a stand up guy before this all came to light and I suspect that is who they will know and see him as - but then, I know very little about the dynamics of pro sports locker rooms?
great post....
I don't care about being hypocritical in fantasy....I was just in some ways trying to put myself in his place....he basically decided to accept the fact that he was going to be one of the most despised players in the league once he put pen to paper and signed the 20 settlement agreements...if CLE ownership, coaches, teammates and fans are cool with that and they don't care....so be it...celebrate all his touchdowns....
but you don't get extra cookies in your lunch box for being a "a stand up guy before "IT"....lots of players do great stuff and are stand up guys....
and this is just IMO....he has almost put himself in the position as one of those kind of guys that if you see coming down the sidewalk....you try to cross the street....meaning you don't really want to be "associated" with him on any type personal/friendship level cause the #### he was doing is kind of creepy and you don't want to be anywhere close....if you associate with him...you are almost kind of justifying/saying that it was......"ok"....
I would have a hard time wanting to "hang out" with this guy....let alone having to go to battle with him on Sundays....but that's just me and the locker rooms I have been in and just the people I would choose to hang out with....I know professional sports are a different animal....its cut throat... so maybe his teammates and the people in the organization and fans are able to turn it into a "it doesn't matter and it's win at all cost" ...robot attitude.... and it doesn't bother them and the trajectory of their organization....
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Leroy's Aces
Footballguy
But, like in real life, in real society, to normal people that don't have crazy fetishes...he is a piece of ####, right?
-OZ-
Footballguy
Cleveland has placed talent at QB over any of that possible negativity.
fans of the other 31 teams can cheer against them for the next few years. We’ll see how it works out. If I were to bet, despite their defense having talent and the best RB duo in the league (Indy might actually be close) they won’t make it to the Playoffs during this contract. I don’t bet, but that’s my gut.
I said you can be a murdering rapist and I will roster you, just keep your paws off dogs (pun intended).
Soulfly3
Footballguy
Beef Ravioli
Footballguy
This is more bold than saying Watson going to get a zero game suspension or that he is banned for life.
If you mean the Browns have to gut their roster next year to pay his contract, ok. Or perhaps you think Watson misses significant time every year because of this, ok. But if they can keep the roster relatively the same, and Watson does not miss significant time, my gut tells me they are in the playoffs at least 3 out of the 5 contract seasons.
Check back with me in 2028!
if he goes to court and fights all the cases and is found not liable/guilty....IMO many in the court of public opinion would maybe look at things differently......settling pretty much sealed the deal on that ever happening....
As I said earlier, I disagree. Unless there is a video or tape or something that is a smoking gun it's still he said/she said and as many have said on here he is a pervert in their eyes right now and a not liable outcome on a he said/she said won't give the satisfaction or enough evidence to change their minds. It's not the movies or TV. There isn't going to be a recap showing what really happened either way (liable or not liable). Peoples minds are made up. Unless a video comes out that won't change.
A grand jury already refused to indict. If that didn't change people's minds, prevailing in a civil suit wouldn't change people's minds, either.
I don't know whether Sue Robinson's written decision will be made public. If it is (whether on purpose or by a leak), there's a good chance that whatever's in it will cause me to update my beliefs.
The difference is that you are willing to adjust your beliefs. Many out there have heard enough and have formed their opinions in concrete.
steelcityman
Footballguy
Hurry up and suspend him already, and get to Kamara too. Its gonna be fun watching reactions when Kamara gets more games than Watson.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Think about the highest profile public trials in recent years - and I don't want to make this political of course - but thinking about OJ Simpson, the Clinton and Trump impeachments, the George Floyd murder trials, Rittenhouse, Depp/Heard - did the results of those trials change anyone's pre-disposed notions of guilt or innocence? We had a famous trial here many years ago involving Packers tight end Mark Chmura, a teenager and a hot tub. Chmura was acquitted (rightfully so), but if you ask around today most people here don't ever recall the verdict - they all just think he's a child rapist. Almost no one remembers that there were two defendants in that case - a second hottubber friend of Chmura's was also charged. Granted, he was not a famous person, but no one even knows his name or remembers his involvement because he reached a quick plea deal and did not go to trial (which was televised.) Very few people actually follow what goes on in these trials - they read a few (mostly inaccurate) reports here and there, and when its over they either cheer the result (I knew it! See??) or they decry the stupid judge and jury reaching a clearly wrong decision.
At the same time, a private settlement generally fades from memory with the passage of time. People remember there was that bit of trouble way back when, but if there's no trial it all remains safely hidden from view and eventually fades from memory. The optics of a public trial, especially if it gets televised, are what people remember in my opinion.
Apple Juice
Footballguy
Do you believe the allegations made against Watson will fade from people's memories? The coverage of this has been pervasive with one lurid detail after another, each one generating massive reactions on social media.
Why does everyone keep comparing this to other things and insisting it's no different ? Is this one maybe a little different considering it isn't the 90s anymore? Just maybe?
Agree 100%
Watson is guilty and my mind cannot be changed, no matter what. As a matter of fact, I would probably just double down on his guilt if he was found innocent in a trial. The more innocent he becomes, the more guilty I think he is.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Lots of folks are comparing Watson's case to other situations, but no one is "insisting its no different." Of course its different. And of course that's not the point I'm making. I'm responding to a comment that Watson could change public perception by going to trial and getting a defense verdict. I disagree with that notion based on my experience. No one is going to forget this stuff any time soon and many will never ever forgive Watson. But if his goal is to put this behind him and move on with his career, the best way to do that (by far) is to settle these cases as quickly and quietly as possible - and yes, that obviously means he's going to pay some money and buy NDAs. Trials are big messy public proceedings with cost, risk, exposure and delay - and then you get to have 12 idiots they plucked off the streets decide your fate. He's smart to settle and avoid that.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
If these issues with Watson never come up again, then I think this is something that can be quickly "forgotten".
facook
Footballguy
unless they have known from ther NFL from the time of the trade, that suspension will be 0
https://www.outkick.com/timing-of-nfls-deshaun-watson-decision-is-doing-damage-to-the-cleveland-browns/
Whatever the timing — today or next week or the week after — it’s already too late. And already unfair to the Cleveland Browns.
https://www.outkick.com/timing-of-nfls-deshaun-watson-decision-is-doing-damage-to-the-cleveland-browns/
Whatever the timing — today or next week or the week after — it’s already too late. And already unfair to the Cleveland Browns.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
AP sources: Deshaun Watson waiting game goes to next week
...The waiting game in Cleveland Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson’s discipline case will continue into another week.
Two people with knowledge of the situation told The Associated Press that retired judge Sue L. Robinson is not issuing a ruling Friday on Watson’s disciplinary hearing that concluded a month ago...
...The waiting game in Cleveland Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson’s discipline case will continue into another week.
Two people with knowledge of the situation told The Associated Press that retired judge Sue L. Robinson is not issuing a ruling Friday on Watson’s disciplinary hearing that concluded a month ago...
Well that's disappointing.
Hard to believe they've let this drag on this long especially when the judge only has one job.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Interesting optics discussion, and my only thought on whether this fades from memory or not is that the Browns would be wise to not do a team towel fan giveaway anytime in the near future.
Catbird
Footballguy
This is probably the defining act of Sue Robinson's career. If not "the" then at the least "one of the." I'm sure she wants to do the exhaustive research on every legal point and be exact in every facet. Usually about 10 or maybe 15 people actually read a decision. Here it could easily be 100,000, even if confidential and leaked.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I would think it would be around 4-5 people. As I understand it, the decision notes will not be published for public consumption. How do you figure 100K people reading it?
Catbird
Footballguy
I hadn't heard that it would be confidential, but things get out these days. If Goodell is going to review it on appeal there is a lot of opportunity. If I were her, I'd be assuming there is a good chance much or all of it becomes public. Even if not, the need for the research and exactness on every point and possibility that it may get leaked are substantial pressures to check, re-check and be sure of everything before submitting it. Nothing but our patience is challenged by a few more days.
Tom Hagen
Footballguy
The Steelers handing out ridiculously small terrible towels when the Browns play in Pittsburgh would be good shtick.Interesting optics discussion, and my only thought on whether this fades from memory or not is that the Browns would be wise to not do a team towel fan giveaway anytime in the near future.
You mean she is not back there just flipping coins? Best of 99 for suspension or no suspension. Then a bingo roller for games missed if the coins turn up suspension. Or maybe she is using that dog on the stairs knocking balls into baskets
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Ridiculous take. The Browns did not have to trade for him or give him that contract. They could have waited until the whole thing was resolved. If they didn't have a plan for this dragging out, then that is their fault and has nothing to do with fairness. Nobody has any sympathy for Watson or the Browns. Hell, this whole ordeal made Baker Mayfield a sympathetic character in the story, which was an impossibility for me this winter. The Browns could not have played this worse.
JoeKappBudGrant
Footballguy
In my opinion, if the ruling was going to be 0 games, she would have issued it by now. I think she is giving Watson's side more time to negotiate a compromise.
or as others have surmized, giving the NFL more time to craft a story line to support 0 games as a good thing
The hearing concluded a month ago, but briefs were submitted less than three weeks ago.
I'd have expected a decision by now, but we're still well within a reasonable timeline ... as long as it comes next week.
-OZ-
Footballguy
Anyone who works with judges should know their timeframe is their timeframe. They’re generally not going to rush to anything, often let things fester for a while. Sometimes that’s to encourage settlement, sometimes that’s them just taking their time.
A month isn’t surprising. Sure we’d like it faster,
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Anyone who works with judges should know their timeframe is their timeframe. They’re generally not going to rush to anything, often let things fester for a while. Sometimes that’s to encourage settlement, sometimes that’s them just taking their time.
A month isn’t surprising. Sure we’d like it faster,
And while I am not familiar with this judge, given that she was a federal judge and obviously had a good enough reputation and experience to be selected by the NFL, I suspect that while this is high profile, it is nowhere near a career defining moment for her, as stated by an earlier poster.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
This is a really lame schtick you two have going. It’s baseless, wishful thinking, and is in no way beneficial to the topic. It contributes nothing, yet you both continue to propagate it.
Frankly, it’s pretty weird at this point.
RenegadeRoy
Footballguy
Lock this thread until there's a decision lol Nothing of any value in the last dozen+ pages.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
The NFL and NFLPA had to submit briefs weeks ago.
The rules stated the maximum length of each brief was limited to 5 pages.
I knew it would take longer than most expected, but I think she really needs to light a fire under it.
