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QB Deshaun Watson, CLE (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
I cringe a little bit every time people throw out the "people settle cases all the time" thing.....like it means the same thing here...again this isn't a one off where you get in a car wreck or something.....if people can't distinguish between what Watson did and the other one off settlements....there isn't much more to say.....and this isn't like Zantac or something where a corporation is settling because of a faulty product or something.....
he (so far) has had 20 different INDIVIDUAL cases where he felt the need to settle for the same creepy allegations instead of trying to defend his name and character.....
I also cringe a little at the cost analysis angle that people defending him revert to as well, and the it's just "easier to do it and get it over with" crowd........like I said some people have enough money not to worry about their character being questioned....but as others have said, some people are going to hate him forever anyway, so it is what it is......I hope his gets his just due and ####s the bed every Sunday and feels the wrath from fans.....I don't normally feel that way or wish those type of things on people, but since he chose not to fight for his "word" and his character....I hope he gets the wrath....right along with his $230 mil..
Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
if what the NFL presented did not include the 4 cases that chose not to settle....and let's say those go to court and Watson is found guilty/liable.....can the NFL use that information as part of a new investigation and then bring that back to Robinson and kind of start all over....?...
or was what the NFL presented already a one and done deal....?...meaning they can't bring up any further accusations.....
I mean for all we know....what the NFL presented may not include one single thing from the 4 cases that chose not to settle...and those 4 cases may be the "strongest" .....when the NFL went to "do their own investigation" those four plaintiffs and their attorneys could have told the NFL to go pound sand....so none of that information or details may have been available for them to present to Robinson...
or was what the NFL presented already a one and done deal....?...meaning they can't bring up any further accusations.....
I mean for all we know....what the NFL presented may not include one single thing from the 4 cases that chose not to settle...and those 4 cases may be the "strongest" .....when the NFL went to "do their own investigation" those four plaintiffs and their attorneys could have told the NFL to go pound sand....so none of that information or details may have been available for them to present to Robinson...
If the 4 cases are not included in the evidence presented to Judge Robinson and she rules no suspension, I suspect those 4 cases would be settled very quickly. If Watson can get off without a ban, he'll be willing to pay the price. If that happens the NFL will never see those cases, unless they already have.Stinkin Ref said:
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-OZ-
Footballguy
Honest question - let’s say you’re being sued for something where the only evidence is your testimony vs the other person. Not a criminal matter, and the burden is only to convince a judge that one side is more likely than the other. Let’s say your attorneys assess the risk at 10% that you’ll be found liable for $30 million in damages. Do you settle for $3 million? $1 million? Assume you have $20 million to your name. (Making up these amounts, feel free to adjust to an amount you think reasonable.) now let’s say they assess the risk at 49% that you’ll be found liable. You still probably win but do you take that risk?Stinkin Ref said:
i don’t think most people would change their opinions even if he were found not liable. The GJ didn’t seem to change many opinions.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Have we tried unplugging this topic and plugging it back in?
Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
IMO....the goal posts move pretty dramatically when it is 1 on 1 .....vs 1 on 24...
in either situation and if I am 100% innocent (like Watson claims he is) and being accused of the things Watson was....I am going to fight to clear my name....
Watson has the resources if he chooses....but in a 1 on 24 situation the 49% odds of being found "liable" is probably more like 99% liable....he would lose face and money....so you can see why he settled...because he thinks that yeah he loses some money but in his mind he saves face because "technically" he was never found guilty/liable...let's be honest....a big part of him settling is because he is guilty.....we can say people "settle all the time" and come up with "cost benefit analysis"....but people also settle when they are guilty.....but we don't want to talk about that one....
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greenmountaingoat
Footballguy
Does each instance of a violation of the policy have it's own consequences?
Let's pretend for a moment that none of us know if what was presented will be considered evidence of a violation of the personal conduct policy. Since that's actually where we are. If the answer is not, this obviously becomes a moot point.
If "Pulling a DeShaun" is, in fact deemed by Robinson to be a violation of the PCP, she's likely been presented with evidence of multiple instances. In which case wouldn't each instance merit it's own punishment?
Let's pretend for a moment that none of us know if what was presented will be considered evidence of a violation of the personal conduct policy. Since that's actually where we are. If the answer is not, this obviously becomes a moot point.
If "Pulling a DeShaun" is, in fact deemed by Robinson to be a violation of the PCP, she's likely been presented with evidence of multiple instances. In which case wouldn't each instance merit it's own punishment?
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Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
...keep telling yourself that....
-OZ-
Footballguy
at least you’re consistent. If my guesses are right either way (guilty or not) and he was my client, I’m strongly encouraging him to settle. Sure it’s an easier sell if he did the things alleged. But even if he didn’t, if he’s following my advice, he’s settling (presuming the complainants are reasonable)
The Big Donkey
Footballguy
is anyone selling "(un)happy endings" #4 jerseys in Cleveland?
Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
I am not disagreeing and I 100% see why he would want to settle....
If my guesses are right either way (guilty or not) and he was my client, I’m strongly encouraging him to settle. Sure it’s an easier sell if he did the things alleged. But even if he didn’t, if he’s following my advice, he’s settling (presuming the complainants are reasonable)
but I am just in the camp of him having actually done these things playing a bigger part than just the "cost benefit analysis" and the "people settle stuff all the time even if they are innocent" crap...
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daveR
Footballguy
If he settles, it costs him money. If not, it costs him courtroom drama + additional prolonged distractions + money. If he goes to court about it, public opinion won't change. (Will yours?)
Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
said this several pages back....I would 100% percent flip completely to the other side if he actually went to court in each individual civil suit and was found not liable/guilty in any way......
facook
Footballguy
Let's say this is true. I assume that any trial is going to be he said/she said with no actual smoking gun one way or the other. There will be no video or recording or any other definitive "proof" one way or the other. So if things are basically the same as they are now (he said/she said) and it goes through the process and he is found not liable you will now believe he did absolutely nothing creepy/shady/pervish/etc?
Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
TheWinz
Footballguy
The only way you can say this definitively is if you think he did nothing wrong. I, on the other hand, am sure he is guilty, and am just hoping one of the ladies has audio, video, or text to prove it.
You are sure he is guilty. Odds are you are correct. If there is no evidence to prove his guilt (the fact that 24 civil lawsuits have been filed is not proof.) should Watson be punished?
If there is audio, video or text proof of some form of violation or assault, we have a very different ending. My question is solely based on the assumption of no evidence.
TheWinz
Footballguy
As much as I want to say fry his ###, the answer has to be no.
He should've just hired 66 prostitutes instead. It would've been alot cheaper, and all 66 would've welcomed his advances. Still, no matter how this all plays out, I will always think he is a sick pervert.
Not at all. My statement is a hypothetical based on nothing coming out in almost two years such as a video, text, taped phone calls etc that has definitive proof (unless I missed something). To this point it has been all he said/she said accusations.
The point I was trying to make is if this goes to a civil trial and he is found not liable and there hasn't been anything new presented would people be satisfied that he was not guilty of anything.
This isn't a TV show that will recap with flashbacks of what actually happened after a trial. It is likely there is not a "smoking gun" for either side. So it comes down to who the jury believes.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I am fascinated to see what the street vendors are pushing at tail gates this year.
TheWinz
Footballguy
Not me. As I have already said, I don't care if every woman on the planet claims he is a saint. I will only assume he paid them all off and had them sign NDA's. He is guilty of being a pervert. Is he guilty of rape? I seriously doubt it. I think he has a fetish for trying to turn a no into a yes, and he used masseuses as his guinea pigs. Actual prostitutes wouldn't have gotten him off, so to speak.
I figure most people that are strong on the guilty side at the moment won't be swayed by a civil trial where Watson is found not liable. That was what I was trying to get at and why it makes sense to settle even if he is innocent.
TheWinz
Footballguy
Yes, I am one of the "burn him at the stake" guys, but I don't think I ever said settling makes him looks guilty. Settling makes sense, guilty or not, if you have the money. But just remember, anyone who has already made up their mind, like me, will just consider the settlement as hush money.
Truth be told, these are masseuses who have probably been hit on by perverts during massages more than once. At least they got hit on by a dude who has megabucks.
-OZ-
Footballguy
That’s easy to say. But it’s also easy to say the evidence was too weak, his attorneys too good, has too many resources, Justice is biased against women, and the burden of proof lays with the plaintiffs. And still believe he did the thing.
We are much closer to the same opinion of Watson than you may think. He is a pervert, whose reputation as a person is forever tainted. He will deservedly lose some cash, he might have to serve a suspension, but we will always think of him as a disgusting human being.
Perhaps if Watson seeks treatment on his own and admits his wrong doing, he can reclaim some of his reputation, but short of that.....
Apple Juice
Footballguy
It's as simple as this. What annoys me are the fans saying oh everybody does stuff like this, nobody cares, whatever, trying to convince themselves and everyone else. There are degrees of creepiness and abuse and everyone has their own tolerance.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I will not draft Watson in redraft for the foreseeable future, simply because IMO, dude’s a creep.
Is it entirely fair for me to have that opinion? Maybe not, no. But to me, the pattern of behavior we do know of, screams “creep”.
That said, I think it’s unfair to judge dynasty shareholders, especially those who had/held him since before any of this came out, or those who bought on the dip just before all this came out.
If I were one (I’m not) I’d hold and hope for the best, of course. That’s not the same as making excuses for him or minimizing his creepiness - but the perspective that sometimes ya get stuck with an asset you don’t love is important here.
facook
Footballguy
Interesting. Have you had similar "do not draft" stances against other bad actors? Tyreek, Zeke, Big Ben, Kareem Hunt, et al? Just curious.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I have indeed. I passed on Big Ben numerous times over the years. I did not draft Vick. I had Hunt before his incident.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Actually no, I passed on all of them even at great value because I didn’t want them on my team (other than Tyreek one year, tbh)
But thanks for calling me a hypocrite with zero evidence & being totally wrong. It’s a good look.
facook
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
To be fair I drafted Tyreek Hill one year but I didn’t know about his off-field issues. Ya miss some news sometimes.
bro1ncos
IBL Representative
So what is the criteria for someone to stop being a creep that you presumably only know through media reports?
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Whatever I feel like at the time, just like it is for you and everyone else. Great question. Anything else?
so, right when his draft slot screams enough value is just when you could change your mind
TheWinz
Footballguy
I can only remember one time where I would not draft a player, and it was Vick. To this day, I would still enjoy watching a video of him getting mauled. I guess I draw my line at the mistreatment of dogs instead of humans.
Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
from a FF perspective....I am avoiding because IMO, I feel like this situation is different from many of the others we have seen where a player does something and then after awhile that player is welcomed back with open arms and cheered like "nothing ever happened'....the volume is an issue...
was Vick a POS....yeah....but he did his prison time for his actions and admitted he was basically a POS and took accountability and did what he could to "make things right".....
but I am avoiding Watson because of my concern that his on field performance will be affected by these transgressions....and the reception he will receive, etc....I have absolutely zero to base this opinion on, but I just don't know of his ability to block things out, like fans and the public outcry....what kind of intestinal fortitude does he have....how is he going to react when things go sideways....how do his teammates feel about him, etc.....
I get the "eventually people, including his teammates, will only care about how he plays on Sunday"....but I can't help but think it is going to be something he struggles with....
I also realize many FF will take advantage of people like me with this attitude and it very well may work out great for them.....but if I miss out on Watson's FF points....so be it...
was Vick a POS....yeah....but he did his prison time for his actions and admitted he was basically a POS and took accountability and did what he could to "make things right".....
but I am avoiding Watson because of my concern that his on field performance will be affected by these transgressions....and the reception he will receive, etc....I have absolutely zero to base this opinion on, but I just don't know of his ability to block things out, like fans and the public outcry....what kind of intestinal fortitude does he have....how is he going to react when things go sideways....how do his teammates feel about him, etc.....
I get the "eventually people, including his teammates, will only care about how he plays on Sunday"....but I can't help but think it is going to be something he struggles with....
I also realize many FF will take advantage of people like me with this attitude and it very well may work out great for them.....but if I miss out on Watson's FF points....so be it...
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-OZ-
Footballguy
I have him in a sf dynasty. Having a real hard time finding appropriate value. Not even real sure what I’d want in return.
I wish you were in my league. Best offer I received a couple months ago was 1.11 (would have been sky Moore) and a presumed late 23 1st. Not enough in SF for me to dump him. I’ve offered him for Derek carr, or Austin hooper, the 6 (would have been Jameson) and a 23 1st. Neither garnered a counter.
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
I feel like this angle gets overplayed when situations like these arise. We're talking about proven world-class athletes, professional athletes who have jobs to do and are well-paid to do them. 8-9 games/year they are asked to perform in hostile environments. Most are able to.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Can't make this up, lol.
Send that man to the NFL Hall Of Fame.
--------------------------------------------------
New England Patriots@Patriots
Robert Kraft’s winning resume since purchasing the Patriots in 1994 is remarkable in itself, but his impact on the game of football extends even further. Now officially a finalist for the
@ProFootballHOF
,@pfwpaul
makes his case for Canton: https://bit.ly/3cNJZfx
Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
overall statement is fair....but also kinda somewhat supporting what I'm saying.....many take this as "just another" incident of transgression by a football player....Vick, Ben, Zeke, whatever...and the athlete will play through it...
bolded....but for me I don't see it that way....this isn't just "another situation" ...IMO....the volume is the key to me ...and also taking into consideration the recent movements and causes in the world today......you will be one of the FF players that benefits from taking advantage of FF players that read more into this "overplayed" angle if Watson sees no drop in production and balls out...and I'm fine with that....do I hope to be one of those "I told you so " guys....and it turns out to be a wasted pick for you....you bet....we'll see how it shakes out....
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