Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Two of them have good offensive coaches. Two of them don't. It isn't more complicated than that.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
QB Marcus Mariota, WAS (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Grahamburn
Footballguy
That's fine. I frequent a Bucs' board as well that has pretty in depth breakdowns of Tampa's offense on a play by play basis. It has been pointed out time and time again the amount of open players Jameis has flat out missed this season. Whether Koetter's offense is innovative enough is up for debate, but as far as effectiveness? It seems the weapons that were added for Winston have been getting open, but he hasn't hit them often enough. Injury related? Possibly. Tampa's losses against NE and Carolina lay directly at his feet due to poor play.
Mariota? I'm not sure what's up with him. But he didn't look good last night.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
The thing that stuck with me was that pick on a simple out route. That was a pick that bad QBs throw. Under no circumstances can a regular starting QB make that throw. I don't know if it's a harbinger or outlier.
I also felt like last night was one of those 'make it' games where good QBs rise to the challenge. He obviously didn't.
I also felt like last night was one of those 'make it' games where good QBs rise to the challenge. He obviously didn't.
Their line isn't dominant like last year. There have been many games that they look somewhat regular. Did you see that real far sack Mariota tried to run away from? It was like the OL wasn't there.
This franchise has forever been tied to its line play and apparently this year is no different. Russ Grimm had them as one of the best last year and with their youth they sure seemed to have a "look out NFL" vibe. They're so up N down this year.
Travis Henry for a year, CJ, and Eddie George were just like Murray and Henry now. Give em' a good hole and they're rocking, don't and they'll be tough to tackle in the backfield. Henry had a nice 16 yard run and then negative two. Sooo many examples lately.
I think this too has to do with the bunched up offense. Everyone in the box is an awful lot to put on the OL. Most teams worry of 8 in the box. Mularkey brings the TEs and WRs in and the entire D is there.
I screen shotted a play the other week where Matthews was to hit his CB then make a right angle turn and get a LB. Mularkey will say their TEs and WRs block very well. They do! Absolutely, but who asks that of them? Last night the announcers were pointing out a play where the two WRs were facing left. As the run came to their side, they were to take on the DT and DE. Decker is a beast of a blocker and Davis is a big ol boy but no WRs in the NFL are asked to do that.
Have you noticed the wishbone with two TEs as the up backs? They have the biggest RB in football and the top rated FB. Why on earth would they need the TEs as the up backs? Pathetically they have passed out of this formation and rarely ran. More often than not, the TEs stay in to block. If you watching, you're like well they're gonna run and those two are gonna steamroll a nice sized hole for the runner. Instead, it's that Mariota loses his pro bowl TE being in to block and there are only two WRs and Murray for a dump pass.
Taywan Taylor is one of the fastest and one of the quickest WRs in the NFL. He's caught two long bombs this year where the DBs could not handle his speed. Otherwise, he has like 11 catches and is used on reverses. After an awesome offseason, after his speed translating so well in preseason, what OC on this planet says let's run him? I could not miss that last night they played AB and people compared Taylor to young AB in preseason. Could he run one route like AB does?
Murray is gold around the corner. He was awesome last year there and this year averages 8 ypc. Where do they run him? Up the middle.
Mariota was bad last night, but people keep commenting on the whole season. He's still MM8. He's still got zero INTs in the red zone longer than any QB in NFL history. Did ya see his run? Walker muffed that catch. The week before Matthews dropped a gimme. Those two are so sure-handed that just bad luck or "it happens" or whatever. Mariota made a couple horrible throws last night I'm not saying he was good, but it's not like he's been that way all season. That O is horrible.
There are so many head banging mind numbing WHA things with this offense that it is awfully hard to blame anyone other than the OC. This is one of the best built offenses in football, on paper, and their performance does not anywhere near match that.
My dad was a lifelong Giants fan. I kept up with the my whole life and even have been in the pressbox and lockerroom at Giants Stadium. I don't follow them closely but still have an eye on them every now and then. Titans have the top rookie WR, two pro bowl WRs, and pro bowl TE. The Giants offense with three street free agents at WR looks better than ours. It's painful, really painful some weeks.
Like I said in the game thread, there's little reason to think Robiske returns next year
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
I watched Mariota play every snap in college and although he didn't have a good game last night the offensive playcalling was horrible. With his athleticism you need to roll him out of the pocket more.
Man In The Box
Footballguy
This guy sucks.
Man In The Box
Footballguy
Benched Rivers for him. Never again.I started Mariota in a league where I'm going against Brady, currently sitting at -1.4 points
Neal Cassady
Footballguy
They have to get a new offensive coordinator. This scheme is brutal.
flapgreen
Footballguy
Neal Cassady
Footballguy
Man In The Box
Footballguy
Bust.
-OZ-
Footballguy
He's sure looking like it. I know this is said too often but his problems really look like they're coaching driven.
third year struggles is bust? ignore the first two years?
He's 24 and I'm totally fine with him for the next ten years. I am a Titans fans for many years which means I am an expert at bad QB play.
His QB coach is Jason Michael, Whisenhunt's offensive coordinator. I'm not at all convinced he's good at his job. I'm not a Robiskie fan and the offense is brutally congested with everyone often in the center of the field. Mularkey's efforts to take over the NFL with a 3 TE offense is often pathetic. There have been so many games where they are buried and he is expected to dig them out. It's so rare that the Titans are just having a regular sort of good day like most teams do. He was great at it last year and this year he has been bad at digging them out most of the time. (He is one of the highest (if not highest) at game-winning drives since he came into the league)
I've seen a lot of bad throws this year and bad decisions. I've seen him stare down receivers for the first time ever. I've watched all the HS video I can find and college too. He's been very very well trained so when he does elementary mistakes it's curious. Is Mister perfect suddenly mistake prone and he doesn't know how to get out of it? Or is he poorly coached? It's been pointed out that Mariota's footwork has grown atrocious this season, he's not going through all his reads, and he's careless. The same guy that didn't throw an INT for most of his rookie camp and guys like Gruden gush about? It's difficult to know who is to blame.
Michael (and Robiskie?) has not done a good job of "fixing" him or "steering" him away from these bad habits. When we place blame on Mariota, we also know that he'll work his tail off during the offseason so there's some confidence amongst fans that he can fix simple mechanics. I think what myself and many others want is to have him return to a new guy, a new QB coach.
Another sidenote, is Matt Cassel is the veteran presence to help him overcome. Does that sound like a good tutor? How about Brandon Weeden?
There's plenty of blame for Mariota but the Titans gotta do a better job of surrounding him with guys that can help him succeed. One bad year will not make me call him a bust or anything. I'm soooo ready for ten more years.
Man In The Box
Footballguy
I’m not a Titans fan, and I don’t play in dynasty leagues, so I don’t really care about the last two years or the next ten years. I read all the praise in the preseason and drank the Kool Aid and drafted him as my QB1. And he’s been pretty much useless. So, my post was directed at his performance this season, which has been a major bust.
Marcus' boy Tua's stat lines as a backup QB are wow!
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/tua-tagovailoa-1/gamelog/2017/
I have no idea how Jalen Hurts holds off a five star recruit
Look at him dance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Zd3bgOa61k
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/tua-tagovailoa-1/gamelog/2017/
I have no idea how Jalen Hurts holds off a five star recruit
Look at him dance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Zd3bgOa61k
Last edited by a moderator:
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
The shame of this is that the Titans put the fate of a potential franchise QB in the hands of Mularkey. Mariota is not blameless in this, but at the end of the day, Mularkey's ethos is to simply manage young talent, not trust it. In 10 games, Trevor Siemian has 340 pass attemtps and 12 TD's. In 11.5, Mariota has 360 attempts and 10 TD's.
It's why the Titans continue to roll with DeMarco Murray as the lead dog in the run game even if the timeshare with Henry has gotten more equal.
It's why the Titans continue to roll with DeMarco Murray as the lead dog in the run game even if the timeshare with Henry has gotten more equal.
-OZ-
Footballguy
This is a reason I think he'll bounce back.
But seriously, your rookie corner as your primary receiver on a key play?
Mariota has hammy, ankle, and shoulder injuries. Ankle is likely to require a cleanup surgery this offseason. Not an excuse, Mariota was full of blame for himself recently.
One thing that makes some sense is going from mister perfect to awful mechanics for the first time ever, the injuries could be some to blame for that. There are a lot of mental errors and just flat our poor decisions- the footwork people keep speaking about, can probably be explained by being hurt
One thing that makes some sense is going from mister perfect to awful mechanics for the first time ever, the injuries could be some to blame for that. There are a lot of mental errors and just flat our poor decisions- the footwork people keep speaking about, can probably be explained by being hurt
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
Your statements seem hypocritical of each. It doesn't matter, just...yeah it's a bad year.TheDirtyWord said:
I'm not worried. I still firmly believe the Titans are extremely fortunate to have him and he will wind up being one of the better QBs of this era.
He's already become a prototype people just may not realize. Watson was compared to him and now Jackson often is.
He's "made differently." He's such a good good guy and only 24. He rarely ever gets upset and his whole Hawaiian peaceful mindset is such a perfect mesh for the QB position.
***************
I am oh so anxious and curious to see Tua in the NFL because of Mariota. I don't wholly care what he does in college at this point. If he can come off the sideline and rock, I'm satisfied. I'm not sure if there's ever been a five star QB from Hawaii.
***************
Fans and some NFL types have no tolerance for mistakes by QBs. It's probably why the QB position is so super weak in the NFL right now that most teams need backups and third stringers. (I don't mean to minimize a condition) Mariota has the same sort of OCD about the QB position that the greats do. We've seen him break? an NFL record for red zone efficiency (I think 35TDs and 1 INT) and go for long periods without an INT. Do you know he has two "perfect" games? 13 for 15 in one and I think 18 for 22 in the other with a combined 6 drops. Whether you want to discuss the drops or go with 80% passing rate, it's excellent.
I did not expect Mariota to win a Super Bowl championship by age 24 (and no one else for that matter.)
I did expect better this year, but "life" says we're each gonna go through adversity and this is Mariota's turn. We saw mister perfect call (the word that's censored and is like peed) a curse and apologize for saying so. He played for brutal Titans teams and never cursed but yet now he did- about himself and his own performance. If that amounts to him "losing it" then I'm totally fine with his future and mental makeup.
Greg Cosell pointed out some facts. On more than 60% of plays, the Titans only have two receivers. He said the defense often has seven to cover the two with five men rushing. Mariota either has to force the ball or take a hit. The two and three TE offense, Greg charted that more than 70% of the time, the tight ends stay in and block. That is not an offense putting a QB in a position to succeed.
He also said he is all but positive the Titans have told him not to run. He's watched 7,8 years of tape on Mariota and he always reacts this way or that way when the pocket collapses. This year is quite different. The only runs he sees are completely scripted. Then he said oh no wait there were a few but it wouldn't change the sentiment of his previous statement.
He called Fowler a giant loss for the team and Mariota. With 7 men in to block 70+% of the time, Mularkey didn't want an 8th (Fowler) so he made him inactive. This is a coach trying too hard to protect his QB and not giving him outlets. It's a mistake that many coaches make but they usually catch it and fix ASAP. If he exaggerates, imagine 10 men protecting Mariota, there's no one to catch a pass. Mularkey or Robiskie have gone too far and it's really an elementary mistake. He swears Mularkey is going to be kicking himself this offseason when he realizes. Coaches have to massage the system and have enough outlets and enough blockers, it can't be just blockers.
The loss of Fowler- he said a FB back with the QB, a top FB, assures a coach that the QB is going to be protected and should have helped with this issue. When he saw Fowler inactive, he knew Mularkey went too far. Over the years coaches have had all sorts of odd sets and gimmick plays that they tried because they had a FB that could protect the QB if it failed. When the host mentioned Murray blocking, Cosell said it takes a lot of energy to pickup a blitz and take on a defensive end. It's not nothing. Many act like a RB can defend the pass for three plays and then should be fresh to run on the next one. Imagine pushing a 300 pound object then being asked to run? It's not exactly that, but it makes a good analogy as to how Murray's game will be impacted now. (This topic went further but, I'll stick to Mariota and stop)
One insider piece that came out this week had one GM saying the Titans are treating Mariota like a jalopy when he is a rolls royce. More than 20 GMs concurred.
Mariota's contract is up next year and one GM said if JRob isn't careful, he'll be playing for his mentor.
This circles back to Cosell's comments on the offense. Bright young stud QB that'll be 25. If he wants, he can be a free agent so the Titans better fix their O and put him in a position to succeed. They'll franchise tag him, surely, and wreck the Belichick statement but it's not a bad way of thinking of it. If it takes using BB as an analogy then fine. BB will need a replacement for Brady so they better make Mariota happy in the offense or risk losing him. Yes there are holes in this, big holes, but it puts things in perspective well.
As far as tailoring the O to him, this is a big problem. Two years ago, the Titans brought in Kendall Wright's college coach. We debated whether the Sooners offense was the spread with a TE or could you call it a spread. (Two things, I realize he wasn't a sooner) The Titans used a few option plays, snap n throws, the Pats screen to the WR, and a halfback shovel that was to the side where a RB could run, they also had a halfback pass which they did maybe 2-3 times. Now we see a QB trapped in the pocket throwing shovel passes for runs in traffic up the middle and a guy that Cosell sees on tape as being instructed not to run.
Like Cosell said and Cameron Wolfe said, Mularkey only needs to look at 2016 tape to see how to fix this O. He's on this path where he had a bright new idea in 2017 that was a bad one. He needs to chuck the idea and get back to what worked.
(Cosell was dead on on the RBs and OL too BTW.)
Anyhow, I'm not skirting blame for Mariota. I've had plenty of that too. These are good facts from film that really do illustrate well how they need to put him in a position to succeed
Guy plays poorly and there are a zillion posts here. He plays well and there aren't any posts.
After a terrible game, he went 70% with 2 TDs and zero interceptions. Three consecutive nice drives in the second half.
Blame on him or OC? When he ran the no huddle and called plays, the Titans played excellent.
This is why he has so many fans. Honest about performance, puts the work in to get better, executes on the field. Mister perfect in interviews gives credit to everyone else and thanks his line.
Mularkey hasn't exactly had any great FF QBs so I don't know FF wise about Marcus' future, but he is "built" perfectly to possibly develop into a great NFL QB. Sam Bradford and plenty of prospects have been special...I don't know if Mariota will turn out to be, but everything ya want is there. They gotta have the proper staff to mold this piece of clay
After a terrible game, he went 70% with 2 TDs and zero interceptions. Three consecutive nice drives in the second half.
Blame on him or OC? When he ran the no huddle and called plays, the Titans played excellent.
This is why he has so many fans. Honest about performance, puts the work in to get better, executes on the field. Mister perfect in interviews gives credit to everyone else and thanks his line.
Mularkey hasn't exactly had any great FF QBs so I don't know FF wise about Marcus' future, but he is "built" perfectly to possibly develop into a great NFL QB. Sam Bradford and plenty of prospects have been special...I don't know if Mariota will turn out to be, but everything ya want is there. They gotta have the proper staff to mold this piece of clay
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
Faust
MVP
ESPN article from December 15th:
Back to basics: How Titans plan to revive Marcus Mariota, struggling offense
Back to basics: How Titans plan to revive Marcus Mariota, struggling offense
Mularkey told a good story on the radio- Mariota politely asked for time to himself this week and he asked Mularkey to watch tape with him. They pulled an "all-nighter which at my age is 11 12pm" and then he went to Mularkey's room and dropped off coffee and pastries early in the morning. A little note inside, like for flowers, read "Thank you."
(Practice ends and presser is 3 most days so I'm guessing 8,9 hours and yes he meant 12am)
Mularkey said here's a guy that could have called room service and had coffee and danishes delivered. Star of our team, our franchise's future, and he comes to me humble wanting to get better. He said he is saving that Thank you note, means the world to him.
All of this caused Mariota to miss the usually extensive film time with Robiskie and Michael.
Did he meet with them later in the week?
"Not much time with Michael this week, just drills, did do a little bit of work with Terry"
***********************
This is everything to me. Gem of a guy, as if we needed more of an example, wanting to get better. I've consistently had issues with Robiskie's offense and wondered what is Michael doing if he's the QB coach and Mariota is struggling.
(The host pointed out a little after)that we didn't hear Marcus saying he was working on mechanics. The well-drilled guy was banged up pretty bad in the last game so it was either injury or confidence in himself or both. I mean his mechanics were excellent again, fixed "like that."
************************
As mentioned above, the O's success with him calling plays in the no huddle while Robiskie's play-calling stunk.
Honestly, sincerely, pick a word....not usual fan bashing or fan anything- I don't see how JRob or Moustache can view this week and NOT think it's time to get a new OC and QB coach. Also, Mularkey showed ya something coaching wise
After Mularkey praised Casey and Avery, he spoke of offenses giving Byard the star treatment and "believe me he's still making an impact on the game." They asked him if this was a QB or a worker going around his supervisors. Mularkey said if everyone is on the same page then that would never be an issue. That only comes up in organizations where people aren't on the same page. That's a wise statement and very true. I wanna see this week if Robiskie and Michael are bummed by it or if they say anything. I don't know if word will come out about that. That would be their mistake because it'd be further evidence they're not all on the same page. What about film day this week? Is Mariota saying "Mularkey said....Mularkey said,....." over n over and making them uncomfy? We surely won't hear about that.
Again though, this would be enough for me if I were JRob. Further, I think it'd be a bit of reality for Mularkey that he has to let his buddy Robiskie go.
(Practice ends and presser is 3 most days so I'm guessing 8,9 hours and yes he meant 12am)
Mularkey said here's a guy that could have called room service and had coffee and danishes delivered. Star of our team, our franchise's future, and he comes to me humble wanting to get better. He said he is saving that Thank you note, means the world to him.
All of this caused Mariota to miss the usually extensive film time with Robiskie and Michael.
Did he meet with them later in the week?
"Not much time with Michael this week, just drills, did do a little bit of work with Terry"
***********************
This is everything to me. Gem of a guy, as if we needed more of an example, wanting to get better. I've consistently had issues with Robiskie's offense and wondered what is Michael doing if he's the QB coach and Mariota is struggling.
(The host pointed out a little after)that we didn't hear Marcus saying he was working on mechanics. The well-drilled guy was banged up pretty bad in the last game so it was either injury or confidence in himself or both. I mean his mechanics were excellent again, fixed "like that."
************************
As mentioned above, the O's success with him calling plays in the no huddle while Robiskie's play-calling stunk.
Honestly, sincerely, pick a word....not usual fan bashing or fan anything- I don't see how JRob or Moustache can view this week and NOT think it's time to get a new OC and QB coach. Also, Mularkey showed ya something coaching wise
After Mularkey praised Casey and Avery, he spoke of offenses giving Byard the star treatment and "believe me he's still making an impact on the game." They asked him if this was a QB or a worker going around his supervisors. Mularkey said if everyone is on the same page then that would never be an issue. That only comes up in organizations where people aren't on the same page. That's a wise statement and very true. I wanna see this week if Robiskie and Michael are bummed by it or if they say anything. I don't know if word will come out about that. That would be their mistake because it'd be further evidence they're not all on the same page. What about film day this week? Is Mariota saying "Mularkey said....Mularkey said,....." over n over and making them uncomfy? We surely won't hear about that.
Again though, this would be enough for me if I were JRob. Further, I think it'd be a bit of reality for Mularkey that he has to let his buddy Robiskie go.
Rishard's gone from good soldier to a bit mouthy this year. He's Kaep's friend. He got a flag given to him before a game, the flag had flown at a base in Afghanistan where his brother died. He was overcome with emotion during the national anthem and had to sit all sad like. "Everyone" went nuts that he was disrespectful. The TV crews curiously didn't show the flag being given to him and didn't help inform the fans. All of this upset him. He's gone from being relatively quiet, says the right thing, to speaking openly and very often on social media.Faust said:
I interviewed him by email thru the team and my article got turned down. IDK if they wanted the anthem stuff to "die down" or what. I wrote it very well and had a few friends proofread so it wasn't my writing (for a change) but something in the editor's mind.
Anyhow, Wolfe went a bit far here. Wolfe is young and new and he's gonna have to see Rishard's reaction and the teams. If Rishard got a lot of flack from Robiskie then Wolfe is gonna get the silent treatment from Rishard. Players mouth off. Ya don't print everything. Not printing everything earns you respect in their minds and gets you future interviews that others might not get and builds a relationship. The way that eight or so mics are there and only the new guy wrote this rrrrreally has me wondering if Wolfe made an oops here. PK, Glennon, and Wyatt didn't write squat and had the same interview on tape. 60? years of reporting experience told all them to shush on it. I haven't asked either why but another result could be Rishard noted as a malcontent and suddenly trade bait this offseason. Y'all aren't reporters and haven't been...trying to explain. I hope this makes some sense. I asked Wolfe if he regretted putting it out there. He was "pssshhh if I hear it, it's going in. I can't be that way." That's a rookie reporter thought. He has to. Now Titans will be super careful what they say around him whereas they may have thought they could almost speak freely.
As far as Rishard, geesh this is not new. The players have been thinking that since this summer and a whole other set of players thought that with Whis. Mariota wasn't allowed to call plays last year but the year before. Last year's no huddle was 4-5 plays scripted beforehand.
Another point- I love Lewan. One of my favorite football players of all time already. The guy adores Mariota and is full of fire and spunk in his interviews. Surely he had about a million things to say after this game and the last. Reporters all love him too and I've never heard of a T being on the radio so much. There hasn't been one Lewan quote that I saw. He'd literally explode if he were silent. All of the reporters have been protecting their asset not putting Lewan quotes in. There's no way he was happy and no way he didn't say Mariota quotes about his play last week sticking up for his boy or in support of him this week playing well.
ericttspikes
Footballguy
Any Titans homers have insight on Mariota's dynasty value? Concerned that he regressed this year. Was his poor year due to coming back from injury, scheme or something else? As a dynasty holder, hoping it's more a scheme/coaching issues that can be fixed (like Goff and McVay accomplished this year.). Mariota seems like a bad fit for the offense the Titans are running, and Mularkey/Robiskie don't seem like the answer there.
hoffman0001
Footballguy
Great buy low target.
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
Marcus in the 2nd half is playing like the QB I saw at Oregon
Aznflyer14
Footballguy
Titans especially Mariota really need an offensive coordinator with imaginative playcalling to cater their offensive players' strengths. Their current OC Terry Robiskie hasn't been proven for last two years and he has been bounced around in the league quite often. Mariota is really talent QB (probably far more talent than Jameis Winston) but he just needs a proper coaching to unleash his dual QB skills and his offensive supporting cast. By the way, I am starting to believe Derrick Henry to be overrated. With his sheer size and talent yet... he always seem on wanting to bounce outside than grind inside.
Last edited by a moderator:
msommer
Footballguy
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
I would agree he's overrated to anyone that believes he's a 3 down back. Which lowers his ceiling in PPR. I like Henry as a 2 down back. Whether Murray's back (restructured etc...) or not, they'll be adding a receiving/speed/blocking element to their backfield. Henry has no business out there on 3rd downs. Saw someone posted it previously, Brandon Jacobs is a good comparison.
Mularkey gone is probably the best news all offseason for Titan fantasy owners. Kudos for the Titans organization for moving on.
Last edited by a moderator:
Aznflyer14
Footballguy
I fully expected him to be let go. Titans should focus on maximizing Mariota's talents (and not to mention his cap friendly contract). McDaniels would do well with this team and their offensive playmakers. However, he probably would lessen Henry's impact and would make Titans to acquire multiple RBs especially the ones with pass-catching backs. He loves interchangeable and moveable offensive pieces.
