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QB Marcus Mariota, WAS (1 Viewer)

@Bri - long and thought out post, thank.... having said that -

I get the same resistance here from the Titan fan that I do from the Cowboy fan regarding Dak.. although more professional and polite here, thank you.

Mariota doesn't have as many advantages on his team that Dak does, but it is still the same issue imo:

His arm.  His arm is the limiting factor on this offense.

I mean Gabbert comes in and after a few series, you say... "oh, that is what a downfield pass looks like."  We all know Gabbert isn't the answer to anything.. but when his arm is so stark in contrast to Mariota, it speaks volumes.

 
Cool, because the borderline playoff team doesn't play the way you want, he sucks. Got it. 

Mariota's ARM sucks.  He is mediocre as a QB, but he should thank Lamar Jackson for removing him from the debate for worst arm in the league (vs Dak).

I would like him to throw more, I expected Taywan Taylor to be pretty good but his stats haven't born that out. Davis should put up better stats and probably would in LA, Philly, KC, etc. 

No - you don't want him to throw more (see above).

Marcus hasn't become an elite passer, not above average for that matter. That seems to be all you want from the QB, and I can't really fault that opinion.

Nope, just be able to perform the primary job responsibility of a QB in the NFL.  He can't.  They don't ask him to because he can't.

We'll just disagree on whether Mariota is a starting caliber QB. 

He is starting, and he is the best QB on the team... I don't think we disagree here.

I'd like him to improve as a passer for sure, but he does a darn good job in every other facet, other than staying fully healthy. I'll take him over Winston, and probably half the current starters. 

How long are you going to give him here?  His contract is about up and he hasn't shown it yet.

In all honesty, if he wasn't such a high quality, likeable guy, many of us would probably agree. But leadership matters. Availability does too, so it's frustrating to see him get injured this often. 

No doubt here.  Agreed.  Hopefully the critique of his arm doesn't get construed as anything else.

I still like him way too much to want the Titans to move on. 

If you are happy in perpetual limbo as a team, then this is your guy imo.
I think the experiment has played itself out.  

They certainly shouldn't dump him until they can find or draft better... but signing this guy to a big money contract will be the death knell for this team competing seriously over the next 5 years.

Maybe he will sign on the cheap and they continue to ride other strengths?  Same position the Cowboys are in imo.

 
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I think the experiment has played itself out.  

They certainly shouldn't dump him until they can find or draft better... but signing this guy to a big money contract will be the death knell for this team competing seriously over the next 5 years.

Maybe he will sign on the cheap and they continue to ride other strengths?  Same position the Cowboys are in imo.
Do you completely discount the abysmal front office over the last 4 years?

 
No.

He has certainly not had it easy.  Seems to be the case with a lot of teams in the league.
Just so weird. Brees and Rogers and Brady and Manning(s) and Ben have had stability. 

 Now,  it’s easy to keep a job as a head coach and offense of coordinators when you have a great talent a quarterback but Mariota was a generational talent coming out of college. I’m not convinced that his current iteration is all his fault. 

 It maybe too late to ever see what he could truly be with stability and a great system but I agree with @Briabove. A guy like Belichick would salivate over him. 

 
Just so weird. Brees and Rogers and Brady and Manning(s) and Ben have had stability. 

 Now,  it’s easy to keep a job as a head coach and offense of coordinators when you have a great talent a quarterback but Mariota was a generational talent coming out of college. I’m not convinced that his current iteration is all his fault. 

 It maybe too late to ever see what he could truly be with stability and a great system but I agree with @Briabove. A guy like Belichick would salivate over him. 
I'm not sure the comp is perfect but imo Mariota is a better version of Alex Smith.  It took Smith until his 7th year to look good and Andy Reid for him to really excel. I hope it comes faster for MM, and I think he's better. 

 
Front office was indeed abysmal under Ruston Webster. No idea what you’re talking about since he was replaced.  
 I should’ve been more careful with my use of words. From an outsiders perspective it seems that there’s been a lot of turnover on the coaching staff and a ton of turnover at the skill positions. 

 
 I should’ve been more careful with my use of words. From an outsiders perspective it seems that there’s been a lot of turnover on the coaching staff and a ton of turnover at the skill positions. 
Well I think the feeling amongst most fans was that Mularkey had taken them about as far as he was capable of and it was time to try something else. I’m personally pretty excited about what Vrabel might be able to accomplish. 

 
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Just so weird. Brees and Rogers and Brady and Manning(s) and Ben have had stability. 

 Now,  it’s easy to keep a job as a head coach and offense of coordinators when you have a great talent a quarterback but Mariota was a generational talent coming out of college. I’m not convinced that his current iteration is all his fault. 

 It maybe too late to ever see what he could truly be with stability and a great system but I agree with @Briabove. A guy like Belichick would salivate over him. 
A Hall of Fame quarterback contributes to that stability.  Mariota isn't any of those guys.  I would have a hard time believing anyone felt he was a generational talent at QB coming out of that system where he quite literally might not have thrown a pass from the pocket in a given game.  Like so many other QBs in similar systems.  Hard to translate.

I can't argue against better coaches making better use of him, but nobody is salivating over his ability to make plays in the pocket.  He can't/won't make the tight throws.  He misses open throws.  Routinely the largest gain off his arm is the result of a screen pass. 

He is exciting when he scrambles, but even that contributes to limiting him in the long run (injured all the time).

 
I was interested in the generational talent out of college comment above.  While people drooled over him off the field, and at his "upside"... it doesn't look like anyone was mistaking his limitations:

Weaknesses:

Pocket passing must improve

Rarely threw into tight windows

Ball placement needs to get better

Played in a college system, not a pro-style offense

Can look to run too quickly when his first read is covered

Must improve footwork

Fumbles the ball regularly

Will need practice working under center

Could use more beef on his frame to help durability

Read more: http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2015mmariota.php#ixzz5aWqu1Sng
I mean they nailed it here.

 
This guy simply cannot be trusted to stay healthy. You can't pay big $ to a guy like that. This is the NFL 2018 and he can't last a season. If he was playing in the 70's and 80's he would have been in the hospital for weeks at a time.

 
@Bri - long and thought out post, thank.... having said that -

I get the same resistance here from the Titan fan that I do from the Cowboy fan regarding Dak.. although more professional and polite here, thank you.

Mariota doesn't have as many advantages on his team that Dak does, but it is still the same issue imo:

His arm.  His arm is the limiting factor on this offense.

I mean Gabbert comes in and after a few series, you say... "oh, that is what a downfield pass looks like."  We all know Gabbert isn't the answer to anything.. but when his arm is so stark in contrast to Mariota, it speaks volumes.
No it's not and neither is Dak's. I guess ya just don't watch them enough. I mean Mariota throws across the field on the run and chucks it deep on the run. I don't know where he ranks amongst other QBs but when ya see him chuck that, you're not worrying he's got a weak arm. 

Dak is fine and I see him often on TV. 

Gabbert bugs me because he's experienced and should know better but...I really don't like when the backups come in and only throw bullets. Ultimately there's going to be a catch that was simply too difficult to bring in and/or a tipped ball to a DB. It's amateurish and after the first drive, that junk should go away.

Most people that discuss strength haven't ever been to an NFL practice or camp. It'd be such a strain if that were the case. Is the coach gonna be like "OK no one go deep and let's skip those drills." That's just my experience, not saying you're that way.

I think touch and leading the WR and ball placement are at an all time low and it's a shame after Kurt Warner and Peyton. QBs of today should have "stolen" their methods like happens in every sport. But really it's like the coffin corner. Most punters stink at it and I just can't rationalize why anymore. I'd have em' punt all practice til they figured it out and ...oh it just bugs me

 
This guy simply cannot be trusted to stay healthy. You can't pay big $ to a guy like that. This is the NFL 2018 and he can't last a season. If he was playing in the 70's and 80's he would have been in the hospital for weeks at a time.
I was on the glass bandwagon as the season started but he's been fine other than the elbow. It's just awful luck this year. Smash the same elbow that many times...can't rationalize it other than bad luck. 

 
I was interested in the generational talent out of college comment above.  While people drooled over him off the field, and at his "upside"... it doesn't look like anyone was mistaking his limitations:

I mean they nailed it here.
so his NFL career didn't happen?

 
I think the experiment has played itself out.  

They certainly shouldn't dump him until they can find or draft better... but signing this guy to a big money contract will be the death knell for this team competing seriously over the next 5 years.

Maybe he will sign on the cheap and they continue to ride other strengths?  Same position the Cowboys are in imo.
It's budgeted. It doesn't really work that way.

The agents enter talks with averages of everyone and averages of the top10 and averages of other QBs with similar stats and experience and...the GM has the same and it's pretty straight forward. 

The Titans have been (jerks I wish they'd spend it!) well under the cap for a long time. They have no $ concerns. In fact, they gotta pay their players extra $ every offseason as a penalty for being under the cap...round about, short version. 

The last CBA allowed bad teams to only have to spend 70? 75? 80% of the cap and teams did. Did ya see the Browns burst of spending? They still have 53 mil last time I looked at Spotrac.

The Titans were awful and now their young players are coming upon renewals and big deals. They're sort of at a transitioning point. Like Lewan just got a huge deal.

It's not the same environment anymore. Agents aren't trying to get every last dollar and teams aren't spending every last dollar. It's more like it's slotted- there's some of each of these, but for the most part.

The only way the Titans would save money by adding a new QB would be a draft pick- otherwise, they'll wind up spending similar money on a starter and backup and you'll see it look like a wash

As far as the notion of re-signing him and moving on, they've still got another year for that. Also, don't forget that it's almost a rule in the NFL that if you change franchise (not starting but franchise) QBs, then you change coaches too. It's all just not that grandiose anymore

 
Bri said:
so his NFL career didn't happen?
Two things..

1) I was researching the "generational talent" comment above.. the scouting reports that I found did not back that up.

2) Yes his NFL career is happening.  And demonstrating these weaknesses beyond a doubt.  He still is bad in the pocket, with tight throws (with most throws really), his footwork (maybe better than it was in college?), obviously his production in that college system hasn't translated, his durability is an issue.

Perhaps he improved his tendency to fumble?  I have no idea on this one.

 
Bri said:
No it's not and neither is Dak's. I guess ya just don't watch them enough. I mean Mariota throws across the field on the run and chucks it deep on the run. I don't know where he ranks amongst other QBs but when ya see him chuck that, you're not worrying he's got a weak arm. 

Dak is fine and I see him often on TV. 

Gabbert bugs me because he's experienced and should know better but...I really don't like when the backups come in and only throw bullets. Ultimately there's going to be a catch that was simply too difficult to bring in and/or a tipped ball to a DB. It's amateurish and after the first drive, that junk should go away.

Most people that discuss strength haven't ever been to an NFL practice or camp. It'd be such a strain if that were the case. Is the coach gonna be like "OK no one go deep and let's skip those drills." That's just my experience, not saying you're that way.

I think touch and leading the WR and ball placement are at an all time low and it's a shame after Kurt Warner and Peyton. QBs of today should have "stolen" their methods like happens in every sport. But really it's like the coffin corner. Most punters stink at it and I just can't rationalize why anymore. I'd have em' punt all practice til they figured it out and ...oh it just bugs me
When I say their arms are the limiting factor.. I am not talking arm strength.

I'm talking about making the plays these guys miss, or flat out won't try.  Accuracy downfield, to covered receivers, even simply the guts to go for it.  That screen pass today to the RB as Mariota's longest pass play.  This is not an anomaly.

And yes, unfortunately I watch both more than I would prefer.  Cowboys every week, and the Titans being in the Texans division.. the Titans many weeks.

I would put the Cowboys in the contender tier with a competent play maker at QB.  I'm not sure the Titans team around Mariota would be even if they did.

eta - In all fairness I decided the 2018 Titans were the worst watch in my adult lifetime and had changed the channel the last several weeks prior to today.

 
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Ian Rapoport‏ @RapSheet 59m59 minutes ago

#Titans QB Marcus Mariota tells WGFX-FM in Tennessee that “basically sent my whole right side numb and tingly” after his injury. He describes it as a nerve injury and the team added a QB. This all doesn’t sound great for his availability this Sunday vs #Colts.

 
Vrabel sounded positive Monday and he put in a limited practice. 

Austin Davis was there earlier and was explained as needing 3 QBs for the playoffs.

It could be a smokescreen. Vrabel has shown to do that

My thinking is if he can throw (practice) he will play so I'm watching practice participation this week

 
@Bri

What are the chances TEN doesn't pick up Mariota's 5th year option? 

Assuming the 2019 QB class is low and even the FA class isn't too impressive, Mariota could be top of the list for some teams out there, finding himself in a very favorable position. 

I might be trading him away in dynasty in a package deal for Cousins but I think a relocation could be just what he needs. He's still young at 25 and still has time to significantly turn his career around. 

 
:sadbanana:

Ian Rapoport‏ @RapSheet 1m1 minute ago

From Up to the Minute Live:

#Titans QB Marcus Mariota didn't practice today after disclosing his entire right side has been numb. This appears to be heading in the wrong direction.

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1078038008295837696
Yikes. Posted above before I read this. That's quite the stinger. Likely not a long term thing, but it certainly could be. A brachial plexus injury can take a long time

 
What are the chances TEN doesn't pick up Mariota's 5th year option? 

Assuming the 2019 QB class is low and even the FA class isn't too impressive, Mariota could be top of the list for some teams out there, finding himself in a very favorable position. 

I might be trading him away in dynasty in a package deal for Cousins but I think a relocation could be just what he needs. He's still young at 25 and still has time to significantly turn his career around. 
I don't think he would fetch much in dynasty leagues at the moment (outside of in a package deal like you are considering). Seems like several times during a season he gets knocked out of games and his fantasy performance is erratic for those he stays in (although not always his fault). A change of scenery might help, though...

 
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@Bri

What are the chances TEN doesn't pick up Mariota's 5th year option? 

Assuming the 2019 QB class is low and even the FA class isn't too impressive, Mariota could be top of the list for some teams out there, finding himself in a very favorable position. 

I might be trading him away in dynasty in a package deal for Cousins but I think a relocation could be just what he needs. He's still young at 25 and still has time to significantly turn his career around. 
I believe they already did.

 
Ill give you a timeline in my words

Mariota said he wasn't coming back after halftime because his whole side felt numb

Vrabel said he was about to (presser before practice) practice limited on Monday.

He said its not the same injury but when pressed said he doesnt know all the bones and nerves, its in the same spot but different and they should ask the trainer for clarification. Trainer was not made available though.

Signed Austin Davis again

Didn't practice today

The injury involves swelling pinching a nerve. The NFLs storied history of game day fixes have people suggesting swelling could easily be doctored or medicated. I doubt the Titans do this. He's the golden boy and they probably lose next week regardless.

No practice is good for swelling and Vrabel was probably wrong to want him throwing.

No he doesn't need to practice to play.

Yes Gabbert is less ideal than Davis for this game only but Davis only has X number of practices and hasn't played.

Mariota's fragile label is actually getting less not more. 42 sacks with two atrocious games by the OL and all he has is a banged up elbow. His injuries this year are often put on Vrabel like when they allowed 12 sacks against the Ravens- pull him or sub OL but there's only so many hits any QB can take.

Yes, Dion Lewis is blamed for more sacks (statistically) than the entire OL. No I do not think he returns. 

Andrew Luck is 10-0 against the Titans and a lock for 300 yards. They're gonna need a passer

 
Marcus Mariota (stinger) returned to practice on Thursday.

Mariota was seen throwing deep balls on Thursday, which is obviously an encouraging sign. Considering the alternative—starting journeyman Blaine Gabbert—the Titans will surely do whatever they can to get Mariota on the field for Sunday night's do-or-die matchup with Indianapolis.

Source: John Glennon on Twitter 

Dec 27 - 3:06 PM


Speaking after Marcus Mariota's Thursday return to practice, coach Mike Vrabel said his quarterback was making good progress.

The Nashville Tennessean reports Mariota had "no tape on his hand" was in "no noticeable discomfort." Vrabel said he was ready to move on to "next phase of the game plan." Barring a setback, Mariota will be out there for Sunday night's must-win game against the Colts.

Source: Terry McCormick on Twitter 

Dec 27 - 3:35 PM

 
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Reactions: Bri
Because Vrabel...he admitted Marcus is probably playing but pointed out he's no guarantee to finish. Oh how I expect a bad game plan now...

 
Because Vrabel...he admitted Marcus is probably playing but pointed out he's no guarantee to finish. Oh how I expect a bad game plan now...
:wall:  🐃 I don't want to be negative but I'm mentally preparing for a very bad game on offense. Maybe the defense can keep luck in check. I fully expect to lose, and for this to not be close. 

 
:wall:  🐃 I don't want to be negative but I'm mentally preparing for a very bad game on offense. Maybe the defense can keep luck in check. I fully expect to lose, and for this to not be close. 
Me too. It's also the perfect setting to save jobs too. LaFleur, both line coaches, there might be more but I figure they are all at risk.

 
Me too. It's also the perfect setting to save jobs too. LaFleur, both line coaches, there might be more but I figure they are all at risk.
Bri, I know that saving jobs can lead to bad decisions being made that don't advance the team but advance careers. That said, what specifically about the Titans is in play here? I'll hang up and listen. 

 
ESPN saying Mariota is doubtful to play.
Woke to this, been grumpy as is every reporter I know. Mort is gold so I am inclined to believe him. I don't think he nailed this one though and it makes me uncomfy.

Mariota would be wrapped in bubble wrap if a serious spine injury was at risk. Mariota wouldn't be throwing (footwork) if he has a torn plantar fasciitis. 

Vrabel may have probably lied this week and idk how it works but if it's per injury that's three times- elbow foot neck. The NFL fines coaches for that and its garbage to reporters and fans.

I don't know here and neither do my friends, Mort's gold but it doesn't fit

 
Woke to this, been grumpy as is every reporter I know. Mort is gold so I am inclined to believe him. I don't think he nailed this one though and it makes me uncomfy.

Mariota would be wrapped in bubble wrap if a serious spine injury was at risk. Mariota wouldn't be throwing (footwork) if he has a torn plantar fasciitis. 

Vrabel may have probably lied this week and idk how it works but if it's per injury that's three times- elbow foot neck. The NFL fines coaches for that and its garbage to reporters and fans.

I don't know here and neither do my friends, Mort's gold but it doesn't fit
As big as this game is, I would think they need him out there more than ever. However, Vrabel is a BB protege' so I wouldn't expect a true injury report here.  :shrug:

 
rockaction said:
Bri, I know that saving jobs can lead to bad decisions being made that don't advance the team but advance careers. That said, what specifically about the Titans is in play here? I'll hang up and listen. 
Each line is down an all pro caliber player and played worse since the staff change. 

The offense has been OMG awful several weeks this year. A couple nice Mariota games and great Henry games don't rewrite the other 11 games.

Good performances by the lines and O would leave a good memory while they make decisions this off-season. 

 
PK reported they're working him out this afternoon.

Several have said he definitely doesnt have a torn plantar but a muscle strain that's lingered since camp. If you want to call a strain partially torn...go for it.

 
Trying my best to relay this, not perfect quoting but...

Jimmy Johnson was on the radio going off about how teams should only develop one QB at a time. He said people don't think about the in-season work that's put in. A young quarterback has to have contributors to the meeting room and to practices and maybe even the game plan. When there is more than one, team's are not discussing the finer points of the game in meetings and he wonders if there even is a capable QB testing the defense during the week.

After a bit, the host brought up Mariota and LaFleur and their struggles

He said, you want to fix that team? Sign two quarterbacks that are 36 37 years old. They will contribute in meetings and help him out (development) and they won't be quiet if the offense isn't performing well. They'll bring ideas.

what about if they have to play?

There's never a bad time to put a real field general on the field. If you think back to the classic QB, he's pointing before the snap, communicating....he's getting everyone in line to do things the right way. They might lose a game but they'll be better off the next week because he's been correcting players all game long. 

Just plan on losing a game?

There isn't a coach in this league that can't gameplan for a savvy old QB. Their problem usually is asking the old guy to do what the young guy does and that won't happen. You got plays in your playbook that suit him, hopefully a running game, you can make it work. 

Many have the Titans drafting a QB plus they had two veterans this year in Davis and Gabbert?

How well do those two know the game? Journeymen aren't always taught. You gotta be careful with them. They could travel team to team and just pick up the basics. I don't know those two but from here it looks like they aren't the type I'm looking for.

Draft?

No. Might as well trade Mariota then. If you're gonna have your QB coach teaching the offense to the rookie that means the coordinator is running around to the other 11 on the field and that's not enough time for Marcus. 

Wow, I bet titans fans won't want to hear that

Ya know one more thing, let me put it another way. Gil Brandt pointed something out to me years ago. Not in drills but 11 on 11, when they're on the field, where are the backup QBs? That will tell you everything. Teams with the veteran QBs have them standing in the backfield discussing, teams with projects have them on the sidelines. Which is better for the starter? It's like a braintrust and it's empowering.

How does Vrabel do it? Do you know?

All the videos I saw had him behind the offense. That tells me he doesn't have that braintrust. I know where he comes from. Ever watch Brady in practice? He turns to the backup and comments on a play, backup is pointing...there's discussion. Why have Jimmy G and Cassel and so many QBs left the Patriots to perform well? They learned. Go to a Patriots practice, Belichick might be back there, McDaniels, there could be 7-8 guys. And another thing, that's the view. That's the look you want. Every coach would be on the field if they could, not on the sideline. See what he's seeing, discuss it.

Did you change things after hearing from Brandt?

Right away. Some of the best advice I ever got. That's even where I go when I want to talk to a team. I'm not standing on the sideline unless they make me. If the network sends me to get a background on a team, I want that view. 

Do they?

Not really. I kind of miss it.

 
Jimmy Johnson was on the radio going off about how teams should only develop one QB at a time. He said people don't think about the in-season work that's put in. A young quarterback has to have contributors to the meeting room and to practices and maybe even the game plan. When there is more than one, team's are not discussing the finer points of the game in meetings and he wonders if there even is a capable QB testing the defense during the week.
I think that’s interesting given what he went through with Aikman and Walsh. Maybe that’s a lesson learned.

 

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