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QB Matt Stafford, LAR (1 Viewer)

Overrated as a real life qb (not fantasy)?

  • Way overrated

    Votes: 82 15.0%

  • Slightly overrated

    Votes: 153 27.9%

  • Rated just where he should be

    Votes: 190 34.7%

  • Slightly underrated

    Votes: 95 17.3%

  • Way underrated

    Votes: 28 5.1%
  • Total voters
    548
Stafford the clown, choking on a fat one when it counts. If he just played an average game, I'd have an easy win. Now it's gonna be close in the finals for me.

 
stafford is 0-8 in his last eight december games.

before this season, he was 1-23 (SEA in 2012) against winning teams in his first four years in the NFL.

 
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lod01 said:
Looks like they will fire Schwartz and co in the offseason. That will include the former janitor that is Staffords QB coach. What we are seeing here is what it looks like when a QB has a QB coach that has never been a QB coach at any level of football.
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Wow, looked that up and you're exactly right. Todd Downing has no business as an NFL QB coach, and it shows in Stafford's play.

 
Raider Nation said:
His mechanics are a complete disaster. I don't even know if you can teach that old dog new tricks at this stage.
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i don't think it is a matter of can't change them, as won't (so far).

it may be a combination of overconfidence in his admittedly bazooka-like arm, and having a brutal OL in his first few seasons, but imo, there are times he passes while backpedaling when he doesn't have to. how hard can it be to set your feet before throwing? it is true that he sidearms it sometimes, but rivers has a funky delivery, and at least is consistent with it. i think footwork is a bigger issue (ie - his failure to throw from a centered and balanced place... EVERYTHING starts from that foundation). basketball players that have the ability to square up and shoot with consistent fundamentals and mechanics (think larry bird) tend to be more accurate.

i also question his judgement at times, too, though. like one of the INTs in the most recent MNF game against BAL week 15. it was thrown sidearm, but was that the primary issue, or did he just read the play wrong? although this is his fifth season (?), it is easy to forget he is still only around 25-26. it just seems like with his physical ability and arm talent, to not be more polished at this point, it does make you question his dedication and committment to maximizing his potential. i guess guys like manning, brady, brees and rodgers are rare as much (if not more so) for their intangibles as their physical gifts. if stafford had the discipline, attention to detail and relentless drive for improvement of a peyton manning, we might be looking at a future hall of famer. he had 40 TDs one season despite slack fundamentals and lazy mechanics?

 
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pizzatyme said:
How does Schwartz make it through this? I know it's the Fords, but come on!
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Money. Schwartz got a 4-year contract extension after the Lions made the playoffs in 2011. The Fords are cheap and don't want to pay a buyout.

 
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At least for today; the play-calling today was mind-numbingly conservative with nearly exclusive runs and screens on 1st/2nd down. Most of the time he threw down-field only when the whole world knew he had to throw.

He's not the best Qb on the planet, but (1) he was w/o Mega at 100% and without his TE1, but more importantly, (2) they need to let him get in a rhythm and they never did today

 
i understand they have tried to get a complementary WR for several years and it just hasn't worked out, and pettigrew is a plodder, but he would benefit from a legit WR2 and upgraded TE.

some teams like CAR, never seem to be able to get that WR2 opposite steve smith (they will need a WR1 AND WR2 soon, at smith's age... but at least olsen is a better receiving TE than pettigrew).

 
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Bob Magaw said:
Raider Nation said:
His mechanics are a complete disaster. I don't even know if you can teach that old dog new tricks at this stage.
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i don't think it is a matter of can't change them, as won't (so far).

it may be a combination of overconfidence in his admittedly bazooka-like arm, and having a brutal OL in his first few seasons, but imo, there are times he passes while backpedaling when he doesn't have to. how hard can it be to set your feet before throwing? it is true that he sidearms it sometimes, but rivers has a funky delivery, and at least is consistent with it. i think footwork is a bigger issue (ie - his failure to throw from a centered and balanced place... EVERYTHING starts from that foundation). basketball players that have the ability to square up and shoot with consistent fundamentals and mechanics (think larry bird) tend to be more accurate.

i also question his judgement at times, too, though. like one of the INTs in the most recent MNF game against BAL week 15. it was thrown sidearm, but was that the primary issue, or did he just read the play wrong? although this is his fifth season (?), it is easy to forget he is still only around 25-26. it just seems like with his physical ability and arm talent, to not be more polished at this point, it does make you question his dedication and committment to maximizing his potential. i guess guys like manning, brady, brees and rodgers are rare as much (if not more so) for their intangibles as their physical gifts. if stafford had the discipline, attention to detail and relentless drive for improvement of a peyton manning, we might be looking at a future hall of famer. he had 40 TDs one season despite slack fundamentals and lazy mechanics?
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He's suffering from Favre disease.

 
Bob Magaw said:
i understand they have tried to get a complementary WR for several years and it just hasn't worked out, and pettigrew is a plodder, but he would benefit from a legit WR2 and upgraded TE.

some teams like CAR, never seem to be able to get that WR2 opposite steve smith (they will need a WR soon, at smith's age... but at least olsen is a better receiving TE than pettigrew).
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Hmmmm, that sounds eerily similar to the arguments made for Joey Harrington. Elite quarterbacks make those around him better. And it starts with mechanics and accuracy. Rather than put the ball in the right spot for a play to be made after the catch, Stafford throws off his back foot and the ball ends up on his receivers back hip . It's a "drop" in the stat sheet but really it was just a bad throw.

 
Synthesizer said:
Bob Magaw said:
i understand they have tried to get a complementary WR for several years and it just hasn't worked out, and pettigrew is a plodder, but he would benefit from a legit WR2 and upgraded TE.

some teams like CAR, never seem to be able to get that WR2 opposite steve smith (they will need a WR soon, at smith's age... but at least olsen is a better receiving TE than pettigrew).
Click to expand...
Hmmmm, that sounds eerily similar to the arguments made for Joey Harrington. Elite quarterbacks make those around him better. And it starts with mechanics and accuracy. Rather than put the ball in the right spot for a play to be made after the catch, Stafford throws off his back foot and the ball ends up on his receivers back hip . It's a "drop" in the stat sheet but really it was just a bad throw.
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i addressed his mechanics, they aren't good.

harrington? i don't think anybody views them as comparable? it is true he never had anybody like calvin johnson to throw to. at least bradford could have upside, he is still young. harrington is a never was.

it is important to define terms. maybe stafford isn't elite. maybe he will never be peyton manning, tom brady, drew brees or aaron rodgers (i would say that is very likely the case). asking him to do what they do, when he isn't them, might be missing the point. maybe having brady throw to a bunch of nobodies is workable, because he is tom brady. brees has graham, colston and sproles. manning has thomas, decker, welker and thomas, one of the best assemblages of receiving talent ever. he used to have harrison and wayne. rodgers has had at various times jennings, nelson, cobb, jones, driver, finley, etc. for all the talk about how elite QBs elevate their weapons (and it is a common view, though i'm not sure it is always right), those are pretty good WRs. matt ryan was supposedly this kind of QB, same with eli manning, but they have struggled this year (and ryan did have julio for five games, white for 12 and gonzalez for 15?).

anyways, back to the point, stafford isn't those guys, so he shouldn't be asked to elevate his weapons in the same way. notice that even if he isn't "elite" and in the category of those four, what if he is top five or top eight? that could still be pretty good, good enough to win with. but maybe he needs to be surrounded with better weapons, to have a comparable impact to what superior talents could do with lesser supporting casts, in order to, bottom line, lead the team to a deep playoff run? maybe he isn't the kind of QB that can lift the whole team on his shoulders and carry them to a super bowl?

obviously if every team cut their starting QB that wasn't as good as the top four, there would be 28 teams looking for a starting QB. and the skills of the elite top four are so rare, it is a virtual certainty there just aren't 28 readily available candidates that could be slotted in to perform like them. otherwise they already would have been?

could he do better with better coaching and mechanics? sure. is some of this on him for not being more diligent, harder working and professional about improving? sure. but none of that is mutually exclusive with being better positioned to win with an upgraded WR2 and TE. i've increasingly thought about the draft in ways where, to cut away all the flab and clutter in the thought process, is to just ask... what moves get a team closer to the super bowl. maybe the moves i suggested aren't it. but maybe they are. and if they are, those are the moves they should make. even if stafford "should" do better with what he has, if surrounding him with better weapons best positions them for the playoffs, those are the moves they should make. they certainly need secondary help. and probably OL help, too.

cam stewart is generally viewed as an ascendant player. but CAR is also a team that perenially (and this spans multiple front office/HC regimes, BTW) seems to have a blind spot when it comes to upgrading that WR2 spot. i think that is commonly acknowledged as well. probably he will do better when they get a better WR2 (and again, they will need a WR1 AND a WR2 when smith hangs up the cleats). everybody knew HOU needed to upgrade their WR2 (and groom an eventual successor for WR1 dre johnson, who is approaching his mid-30s, an age at which even hall of famers can begin to wind down). they didn't get the tangible payoff reflected in W-L record this year, but that was for various reasons (cushing and foster on IR, lot of close losses, questionable coaching, bad QB play, etc.)...

 
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The only reason Stafford is even in the conversation of being good is because he has the best WR in our generation to throw to.

Whenever, Calvin isn't 100% Stafford struggles.

 
gradin123 said:
The only reason Stafford is even in the conversation of being good is because he has the best WR in our generation to throw to.

Whenever, Calvin isn't 100% Stafford struggles.
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he does have some innate arm talent. i'm not sure every QB could have had a 40 TD season, even with johnson. peyton manning had harrison and wayne, but didn't reach that plateau every year? we could think of plenty of other examples of great QB/WR batteries. the 40 TD club is rare.
 
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Bob Magaw said:
gradin123 said:
The only reason Stafford is even in the conversation of being good is because he has the best WR in our generation to throw to.

Whenever, Calvin isn't 100% Stafford struggles.
Click to expand...
he does have some innate arm talent. i'm not sure every QB could have had a 40 TD season, even with johnson. peyton manning had harrison and wayne, but didn't reach that plateau every year? we could think of plenty of other examples of great QB/WR batteries. the 40 TD club is rare.
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On one side he has the best WR of our generation, on the other side, in the slot, and at TE he's got one of the worst receiving corps around.

Not a defense of Stafford and some of his awful performances in the 2nd half of the season, but if WR/TE talent factors in I'd say look at all of that talent.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Bob Magaw said:
gradin123 said:
The only reason Stafford is even in the conversation of being good is because he has the best WR in our generation to throw to.

Whenever, Calvin isn't 100% Stafford struggles.
Click to expand...
he does have some innate arm talent. i'm not sure every QB could have had a 40 TD season, even with johnson. peyton manning had harrison and wayne, but didn't reach that plateau every year? we could think of plenty of other examples of great QB/WR batteries. the 40 TD club is rare.
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On one side he has the best WR of our generation, on the other side, in the slot, and at TE he's got one of the worst receiving corps around.

Not a defense of Stafford and some of his awful performances in the 2nd half of the season, but if WR/TE talent factors in I'd say look at all of that talent.
Click to expand...
Stafford's weapons, by and large, are awful. Calvin is a beast but really there is nothing else on the team. Bush started the year on fire but has become very inconsistent down the stretch with drops. Speaking of which, man there are so many drops in Det this year. Another dropped pass led to a pick yesterday. Bush dropped an easy one over the middle where he had nothing but daylight in front of him. It's a broken record every week. I'm not sure why Calvin was taken out of the game so much yesterday but it's also worth noting that he probably only played about 2/3 the offensive snaps.

At this point it seems clear that Det will have a new coach next season. Perhaps the change will get Stafford and the rest of the group to focus more and have some discipline. Overall I'd say Det just lacks toughness and a killer instinct. They take a ton of penalties, drop a ridiculous amount of passes, make mental errors and have a QB with no accountability.

 
Todd Downing enters his fifth season with the Lions and his fourth working with quarterbacks. He spent his first season with Detroit as an offensive quality control coach. Before joining the Lions, he coached three seasons with St. Louis as an assistant secondary/defensive quality control coach (2008) and a defensive assistant coach/assistant special teams coach (2006-07).

First thing that needs done is a new staff. They have a total incompetent as the QB coach. Before Detroit he had never coached QBs. Well it's pretty obvious right now. Pretty much is right in line with my theory that the NFL is just like any other business. Guys get hired, then hire buddies and all are incompetent. Only in the NFL, they don't go out of business. They just suck until they are all fired. Whole lotta retreading going on. Then you look at the fresh start of the Eagles. If not for Kelly, it would probably still be Vick at the helm and Foles would still be just untapped hidden potential.

 
jurb26 said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Bob Magaw said:
gradin123 said:
The only reason Stafford is even in the conversation of being good is because he has the best WR in our generation to throw to.

Whenever, Calvin isn't 100% Stafford struggles.
Click to expand...
he does have some innate arm talent. i'm not sure every QB could have had a 40 TD season, even with johnson. peyton manning had harrison and wayne, but didn't reach that plateau every year? we could think of plenty of other examples of great QB/WR batteries. the 40 TD club is rare.
Click to expand...
On one side he has the best WR of our generation, on the other side, in the slot, and at TE he's got one of the worst receiving corps around.

Not a defense of Stafford and some of his awful performances in the 2nd half of the season, but if WR/TE talent factors in I'd say look at all of that talent.
Click to expand...
Stafford's weapons, by and large, are awful. Calvin is a beast but really there is nothing else on the team. Bush started the year on fire but has become very inconsistent down the stretch with drops. Speaking of which, man there are so many drops in Det this year. Another dropped pass led to a pick yesterday. Bush dropped an easy one over the middle where he had nothing but daylight in front of him. It's a broken record every week. I'm not sure why Calvin was taken out of the game so much yesterday but it's also worth noting that he probably only played about 2/3 the offensive snaps.

At this point it seems clear that Det will have a new coach next season. Perhaps the change will get Stafford and the rest of the group to focus more and have some discipline. Overall I'd say Det just lacks toughness and a killer instinct. They take a ton of penalties, drop a ridiculous amount of passes, make mental errors and have a QB with no accountability.
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I'd say what they lack is discipline more than anything, with a coherent offensive philosophy a close second. Those are both coaching issues.If I was a Lions fan I'd hope to hell it wasn't toughness and a killer instinct they lack, because those are two traits you aren't going to coach up very easily. They'd need Cowher or Gruden (a nice fit for that team, though I don't think he or Cowher are coming back next year) and some drill sergeants at positional coaching to turn around a bunch of players who lack heart. Stafford in particular, since this thread is dedicated to him, has no shortage of guts and toughness. Just go back and look at the tape of the victory he engineered over the Bears early in his career, after he had separated his shoulder.

 
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matuski said:
Bunch of people lose a fantasy football game and guy a year removed from one of the best seasons ever by a QB becomes a bum. :lmao:
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Closer to two years at this point. He stunk out loud down the stretch last season.
 
Stafford is not a bad starting FF QB.....but he is an awful NFL Starting QB. Without Calvin this guy would definitely not have gotten the contract he got this past season

 
We need a new OC and a new HC that is offensively minded and has a good history with helping QBs.

If Stafford can have some if his fundamental flaws tweaked, and his confidence brought back with a set of plays that are actually good, then it becomes a different ball game.

Big IF though.

 
Asked Friday whether he would consider working with a quarterback guru during the offseason, Matthew Stafford replied "It's not my thing."
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Of course it's not his thing. His "thing" is doing whatever the hell he pleases and throwing mind-numbingly horrific passes.

 
Raider Nation said:
Asked Friday whether he would consider working with a quarterback guru during the offseason, Matthew Stafford replied "It's not my thing."
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Of course it's not his thing. His "thing" is doing whatever the hell he pleases and throwing mind-numbingly horrific passes.
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Calvin needs to punch this clown right in the face. Bring on the noodle armed backup. he knows how to throw a catchable punt pass to calvin deep.

 
lod01 said:
Raider Nation said:
Asked Friday whether he would consider working with a quarterback guru during the offseason, Matthew Stafford replied "It's not my thing."
Click to expand...
Of course it's not his thing. His "thing" is doing whatever the hell he pleases and throwing mind-numbingly horrific passes.
Click to expand...
Calvin needs to punch this clown right in the face. Bring on the noodle armed backup. he knows how to throw a catchable punt pass to calvin deep.
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You joke, but that's seriously one of the biggest issues. He has absolutely no fear of losing his job. Maybe he should.

 
Rotoworld:

New coach Jim Caldwell plans to focus on improving Matthew Stafford's footwork.

Caldwell said he's already watched every single throw Stafford made during a 2013 season that saw him complete just 58.5 percent of his passes and throw 29 touchdowns against 19 interceptions. Stafford's oft-discussed mechanics will be addressed. "The great majority of poor throws—people look at the arm, and that's important obviously, but I think footwork is the key. ... We'll work on it with Matthew, and he will do them flawlessly," Caldwell said. Stafford has been staunch in his stance that he doesn't need a tutor, but he'll have to heed advice from his head coach. The Caldwell hire gives Stafford a little boost entering 2014.


Source: SI.com
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Rotoworld:

Lions GM Martin Mayhew admitted that "there certainly has to be some work done" with Matthew Stafford.
Stafford's completion percentage has dipped three consecutive seasons, falling from 63.5 percent in 2011 to 59.8 in 2012 to 58.5 this past season. He also turned the ball over a career-worst 23 times in 2013, while his footwork remains shoddy. The Lions have brought in some quality men to work with Stafford. New coach Jim Caldwell has a history with quarterbacks, and new OC Joe Lombardi spent the past seven seasons with Drew Brees. We remain high on Stafford for 2014.

Source: MLive.com
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Rotoworld:

New OC Joe Lombardi was hired "chiefly" because the Lions believe he can help rejuvenate Matthew Stafford.

Lombardi has been working with Drew Brees/Sean Payton since 2007, first as a Saints offensive assistant and then as their quarterbacks coach. "I feel like we were right on the cutting edge of creativity with what we were able to do with personnel and that kind of thing (in New Orleans)," Brees said. "I see some similarities, obviously, to what Detroit has with their offensive personnel. I'm sure [Lombardi] is going to be very creative with those guys. It's just his talent." Stafford will also be getting tutelage from new head coach Jim Caldwell, who spent a decade coaching Peyton Manning. Stafford's mechanics and efficiency are excellent bets to improve in 2014, though his passing volume may take a slight hit.


Source: MLive.com
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The problem is that this guy seems like an alcoholic. He doesn't think there is any problems with his play.

 
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Faust said:
Rotoworld:

New OC Joe Lombardi was hired "chiefly" because the Lions believe he can help rejuvenate Matthew Stafford.

Lombardi has been working with Drew Brees/Sean Payton since 2007, first as a Saints offensive assistant and then as their quarterbacks coach. "I feel like we were right on the cutting edge of creativity with what we were able to do with personnel and that kind of thing (in New Orleans)," Brees said. "I see some similarities, obviously, to what Detroit has with their offensive personnel. I'm sure [Lombardi] is going to be very creative with those guys. It's just his talent." Stafford will also be getting tutelage from new head coach Jim Caldwell, who spent a decade coaching Peyton Manning. Stafford's mechanics and efficiency are excellent bets to improve in 2014, though his passing volume may take a slight hit.


Source: MLive.com
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This was big news in NO yesterday, sorry to see him go.

 
Rotoworld:

New Lions OC Joe Lombardi hinted that he sees Matthew Stafford's footwork as a correctable problem.
It's a bit of a touchy subject in Detroit because of Stafford's past opposition to changing his mechanics, but good news that Lombardi has identified this as an issue. "Matthew has got such a talented arm that I think there are times when he is making throws that you say, 'Hey, maybe you shouldn't have thrown that because of the position of your feet' or whatnot," said Lombardi. A QBs coach by trade, Lombardi worked with technically sound Drew Brees for the last seven years in New Orleans. He's going to prioritize improving Stafford's mechanics.

Source: NFL.com
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Golden Tate anticipates "moving around a lot more" in Detroit after playing X-Iso receiver in Seattle.
Though it obviously worked for the Super Bowl champs, it was frustrating at times to watch Tate's run-after-catch skills go to waste as a perimeter-only wideout in Seattle. He should play far more slot receiver in Detroit, running higher-percentage routes. Some great stats on Tate per PFF's Pete Damilatis: Tate has dropped just five of his 149 catchable targets over the last three seasons, the lowest "drop rate" of any NFL wide receiver. Tate's 50 "missed tackles" forced the past three years are nine more than any wideout in football.
 
Rotoworld:

Matthew Stafford - QB - Lions

Lions OC Joe Lombardi is happy with Matthew Stafford's mechanics progress.

The Lions brought in three accomplished quarterback tutors in head coach Jim Caldwell, Lombardi and QBs coach Jim Bob Cooter. They've spent the offseason fine-tuning Stafford's much-maligned footwork after his completion percentage sunk to 58.5 last season. "Like most quarterbacks, when his feet are right, the passes are usually right," Lombardi said. With a deep and explosive array of weapons, Stafford is set up for a monstrous campaign. He just can't get sloppy with the fundamentals.

Source: Detroit Free Press

May 29 - 10:44 AM
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Rotoworld:

Matthew Stafford - QB - Lions

Matthew Stafford is expected to have more freedom to change plays pre-snap under new OC Joe Lombardi.

Stafford had some freedom under former OC Scott Linehan, but Lombardi comes from a New Orleans system in which Drew Brees is allowed improvise freely at the line. Brees has earned that right through his play, and new coach Jim Caldwell cautioned Stafford will earn more pre-snap responsibilities the longer he spends in the offense. More freedom at the line could bring with it more efficiency for Stafford, who has completed more than 60% of his passes only once in his five-year career, and should allow Stafford to put Calvin Johnson and Golden Tate in better positions to make plays. Stafford is a clear-cut QB1 with top-3 upside.

Source: Detroit News

Jun 12 - 11:12 PM
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