QB Russell Wilson, NYG (7 Viewers)

[menobrown]

This article was wrote last year but all the numbers still apply:

Agent's Take: Breaking down Russell Wilson's contract and when the Broncos can realistically get rid of him

Simply put, Denver doesn't have any good options for parting ways with its disappointing QB

www.cbssports.com

2024 release: No post-June 1 designation/no second option exercise​

• 2024 salary cap increase: $49.6 million
• 2024 dead money: $85 million

2024 release: Post-June 1 designation/no second option exercise​

• 2024 salary cap increase: $17.6 million
• 2024 dead money: $53 million
• 2025 dead money: $32 million

2024 release: Post-June 1 designation/second option exercised​

• 2024 salary cap charge: $35.4 million (no change)
• 2024 dead money: $35.4 million
• 2025 dead money: $49.6 million

 

[Joe Bryant]

put me in the minority camp that thinks Russ played pretty well this year, not great but better than a lot of QBs. seems to me and i can be wrong that Payton never wanted Russ to work. I mean yes they won some games but could've let him air it out a bit and take some chances I mean not a ton to lose really. Also Russ really didn't have a whole lot to work with. Sutton was best wr by far, and not much else, running game was meh.

But they didn't trade away the farm and pay him a kings' ransom to play 'pretty well'. I'd argue he's played pretty average and the numbers bear that out. He was brought in to win and win right away. He's been a failure in that regard. His locker room antics are juvenile and his teammates think he's a dork. Denver has 3 WRs on the roster selected in the 1st or 2nd round. A running back taken in the 2nd round. They surrounded him with talent and yet, he did nothing with it.

the round the players were drafted is about as relevant as what i had for dinner, Jeudy is not very good, Javonte has been average, maybe he'll be better next year further out from his injury but who knows, if not the worst group of offensive weapons can't see how they're not bottom 3. hard to know for sure what his teammates think, maybe you're right but these things can't also get overblown. Sutton showed support for him earlier this year for one.

So they blew the draft picks? Huh. That's what dysfunctional teams do I guess.

I don't know on that. Drafting is really hard. Even teams who do it mostly well like San Francisco still draft a Trey Lance. I make a distinction between dysfunctional and teams that don't draft well.

 

[pollardsvision]

put me in the minority camp that thinks Russ played pretty well this year, not great but better than a lot of QBs. seems to me and i can be wrong that Payton never wanted Russ to work. I mean yes they won some games but could've let him air it out a bit and take some chances I mean not a ton to lose really. Also Russ really didn't have a whole lot to work with. Sutton was best wr by far, and not much else, running game was meh.

But they didn't trade away the farm and pay him a kings' ransom to play 'pretty well'. I'd argue he's played pretty average and the numbers bear that out. He was brought in to win and win right away. He's been a failure in that regard. His locker room antics are juvenile and his teammates think he's a dork. Denver has 3 WRs on the roster selected in the 1st or 2nd round. A running back taken in the 2nd round. They surrounded him with talent and yet, he did nothing with it.

Pretty well may be better than they can expect from their next starting QB. Between Peyton and Wilson, these were their QBs from 2016-2021:

1. Trevor Siemian
2. Paxton Lynch
3. Brock Osweiler
4. Case Keenum
5. Joe Flacco
6. Drew Lock
7. Brandon Allen
8. Jeff Driskel
9. Brett Rypien
10. Teddy Bridgewater

And now, Jarrett Stidham.



I'm not disagreeing that the Broncos made a bad trade and a much, much worse contract extension. Or that Wilson has been merely average or thereabouts this season, not great.

But who is walking through that door to do better? They aren't in position to get a top QB in this draft.

Dang, I forgot they had a 34 year old Joe Flacco. Can you imagine how good they'd be right now if they'd kept him?

 

[Ghost Rider]

Also wonder how the teams around the Broncos in terms of overall record feel about the team basically packing in the tent the rest of the way.

Not seeing a "give up" at at all with this change.

Stidham was hand-picked by Payton and aggressively pursued in the offseason, paid a lot of money for a backup ($5mm/yr), and his skillset is much more suited toward Payton's offense.

This could very well be an upgrade

That is the issue with too many coaches. They don't want players who don't fit their scheme, but if you have a good player, you tweak your system to fit that player's skillset. All we've heard for 15 years if what an offensive genius Sean Payton supposedly is, yet Russell Wilson apparently didn't fit his scheme. I said to a friend months ago that Payton would make Wilson the fall guy for this season, and here we are.

And don't get me wrong, Wilson's contact is an issue. When you are getting paid that much money, you can't just be "good" like he was this year; you need to be a difference maker. And he wasn't, but I cannot help but wonder if things had been different if Payton had been on board with him. It seemed like Payton didn't want Wilson from the start, which makes it strange as to why he even signed to coach the Broncos, as Wilson and his contract weren't a secret.

 

[MAC_32]

But who is walking through that door to do better? They aren't in position to get a top QB in this draft.

I wonder if it's a play for 2025 with a tear down leading into 2024. Payton has the job security to see through a reset year and have patience beyond. The core of the team isn't good enough to win as is, they won't have the $ to get better, and they have a lot of ~30 year old's they can move on from rather easily.

 

[Mitchie]

Also wonder how the teams around the Broncos in terms of overall record feel about the team basically packing in the tent the rest of the way.

Not seeing a "give up" at at all with this change.

Stidham was hand-picked by Payton and aggressively pursued in the offseason, paid a lot of money for a backup ($5mm/yr), and his skillset is much more suited toward Payton's offense.

This could very well be an upgrade

That is the issue with too many coaches. They don't want players who don't fit their scheme, but if you have a good player, you tweak your system to fit that player's skillset. All we've heard for 15 years if what an offensive genius Sean Payton supposedly is, yet Russell Wilson apparently didn't fit his scheme. I said to a friend months ago that Payton would make Wilson the fall guy for this season, and here we are.

And don't get me wrong, Wilson's contact is an issue. When you are getting paid that much money, you can't just be "good" like he was this year; you need to be a difference maker. And he wasn't, but I cannot help but wonder if things had been different if Payton had been on board with him. It seemed like Payton didn't want Wilson from the start, which makes it strange as to why he even signed to coach the Broncos, as Wilson and his contract weren't a secret.

This is one of the biggest puzzles to me, only thing i can think of is maybe he had a behind the scenes agreement with ownership that the plan was one more year of Russ and then start over.

 

[Todem]

Seems like the NFLPA would have issue with this type of benching. It makes sense for the team but seems like it is a circumventing of honoring the total contract.

The NFLPA can look at themselves in the mirror. This is the CBA they negotiated and signed off on.

 

[-OZ-]

Is there any chance Justin fields fits Payton’s plans?

 

[General Malaise]

put me in the minority camp that thinks Russ played pretty well this year, not great but better than a lot of QBs. seems to me and i can be wrong that Payton never wanted Russ to work. I mean yes they won some games but could've let him air it out a bit and take some chances I mean not a ton to lose really. Also Russ really didn't have a whole lot to work with. Sutton was best wr by far, and not much else, running game was meh.

But they didn't trade away the farm and pay him a kings' ransom to play 'pretty well'. I'd argue he's played pretty average and the numbers bear that out. He was brought in to win and win right away. He's been a failure in that regard. His locker room antics are juvenile and his teammates think he's a dork. Denver has 3 WRs on the roster selected in the 1st or 2nd round. A running back taken in the 2nd round. They surrounded him with talent and yet, he did nothing with it.

the round the players were drafted is about as relevant as what i had for dinner, Jeudy is not very good, Javonte has been average, maybe he'll be better next year further out from his injury but who knows, if not the worst group of offensive weapons can't see how they're not bottom 3. hard to know for sure what his teammates think, maybe you're right but these things can't also get overblown. Sutton showed support for him earlier this year for one.

So they blew the draft picks? Huh. That's what dysfunctional teams do I guess.

I don't know on that. Drafting is really hard. Even teams who do it mostly well like San Francisco still draft a Trey Lance. I make a distinction between dysfunctional and teams that don't draft well.

I know drafting is hard and so does Denver. They haven't drafted a good QB since Elway.

My original point was that Denver used 4 picks in the first two rounds on skill players so the observation that he didn't have much to work with is laughable.

Dysfunctional teams DO get desperate and make lousy trades which is precisely what happened to Denver. They haven't been able to find a QB through the draft so they traded the world for one they thought was a winner. Didn't work. And now they're really hooped with dead cap money, lost draft picks and a coach who makes way too much money to miss the playoffs.

Dysfunction thy name is Denver.

 

[UncleZen]

Is there any chance Justin fields fits Payton’s plans?

I personally don't think Sean Payton is creative enough to use Justin Fields.

 

[Joe Bryant]

put me in the minority camp that thinks Russ played pretty well this year, not great but better than a lot of QBs. seems to me and i can be wrong that Payton never wanted Russ to work. I mean yes they won some games but could've let him air it out a bit and take some chances I mean not a ton to lose really. Also Russ really didn't have a whole lot to work with. Sutton was best wr by far, and not much else, running game was meh.

But they didn't trade away the farm and pay him a kings' ransom to play 'pretty well'. I'd argue he's played pretty average and the numbers bear that out. He was brought in to win and win right away. He's been a failure in that regard. His locker room antics are juvenile and his teammates think he's a dork. Denver has 3 WRs on the roster selected in the 1st or 2nd round. A running back taken in the 2nd round. They surrounded him with talent and yet, he did nothing with it.

the round the players were drafted is about as relevant as what i had for dinner, Jeudy is not very good, Javonte has been average, maybe he'll be better next year further out from his injury but who knows, if not the worst group of offensive weapons can't see how they're not bottom 3. hard to know for sure what his teammates think, maybe you're right but these things can't also get overblown. Sutton showed support for him earlier this year for one.

So they blew the draft picks? Huh. That's what dysfunctional teams do I guess.

I don't know on that. Drafting is really hard. Even teams who do it mostly well like San Francisco still draft a Trey Lance. I make a distinction between dysfunctional and teams that don't draft well.

I know drafting is hard and so does Denver. They haven't drafted a good QB since Elway.

My original point was that Denver used 4 picks in the first two rounds on skill players so the observation that he didn't have much to work with is laughable.

Dysfunctional teams DO get desperate and make lousy trades which is precisely what happened to Denver. They haven't been able to find a QB through the draft so they traded the world for one they thought was a winner. Didn't work. And now they're really hooped with dead cap money, lost draft picks and a coach who makes way too much money to miss the playoffs.

Dysfunction thy name is Denver.

I think we'll just have to disagree there. I've not seen enough to call it dysfunction yet. But we'll see.

It feels to me like they fell for the thing I can see all teams falling for - the realization a QB is the all-important piece, and they believed a former star was worth breaking the bank for. Same thing with Deshaun Watson. When it's the life or death piece, you can talk yourself into things.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Is there any chance Justin fields fits Payton’s plans?

I personally don't think Sean Payton is creative enough to use Justin Fields.

Our Cecil Lammey is a Denver Insider and he describes Wilson as a "Chaos QB" meaning he thrives on improvisation. Payton is much more a structured QB guy it seems. I think he's massively talented as a coach and more than creative enough. I just don't think it's the type of QB that seems to thrive in his systems.

 

[Mitchie]

Apparently Russ was told he'd be inactive unless he restructured his contract, and he was 'shocked' and said no.

 

[pollardsvision]

Also wonder how the teams around the Broncos in terms of overall record feel about the team basically packing in the tent the rest of the way.

Not seeing a "give up" at at all with this change.

Stidham was hand-picked by Payton and aggressively pursued in the offseason, paid a lot of money for a backup ($5mm/yr), and his skillset is much more suited toward Payton's offense.

This could very well be an upgrade

That is the issue with too many coaches. They don't want players who don't fit their scheme, but if you have a good player, you tweak your system to fit that player's skillset. All we've heard for 15 years if what an offensive genius Sean Payton supposedly is, yet Russell Wilson apparently didn't fit his scheme. I said to a friend months ago that Payton would make Wilson the fall guy for this season, and here we are.

And don't get me wrong, Wilson's contact is an issue. When you are getting paid that much money, you can't just be "good" like he was this year; you need to be a difference maker. And he wasn't, but I cannot help but wonder if things had been different if Payton had been on board with him. It seemed like Payton didn't want Wilson from the start, which makes it strange as to why he even signed to coach the Broncos, as Wilson and his contract weren't a secret.

Probably because they were the only franchise dumb enough to give up multiple draft picks and $100 million for his services, would be my guess.

 

[zamboni]

Is there any chance Justin fields fits Payton’s plans?

I personally don't think Sean Payton is creative enough to use Justin Fields.

Our Cecil Lammey is a Denver Insider and he describes Wilson as a "Chaos QB" meaning he thrives on improvisation. Payton is much more a structured QB guy it seems. I think he's massively talented as a coach and more than creative enough. I just don't think it's the type of QB that seems to thrive in his systems.

I think a healthy Kirk Cousins would be a nice fit there if they can afford it.

 

[zeeshan2]

Russini] Russell Wilson is expecting to be cut by the Denver Broncos in March, per league sources. For almost two months, the quarterback has been starting knowing the organization was most likely going to move on him from after this season.

 

[Mitchie]

put me in the minority camp that thinks Russ played pretty well this year, not great but better than a lot of QBs. seems to me and i can be wrong that Payton never wanted Russ to work. I mean yes they won some games but could've let him air it out a bit and take some chances I mean not a ton to lose really. Also Russ really didn't have a whole lot to work with. Sutton was best wr by far, and not much else, running game was meh.

But they didn't trade away the farm and pay him a kings' ransom to play 'pretty well'. I'd argue he's played pretty average and the numbers bear that out. He was brought in to win and win right away. He's been a failure in that regard. His locker room antics are juvenile and his teammates think he's a dork. Denver has 3 WRs on the roster selected in the 1st or 2nd round. A running back taken in the 2nd round. They surrounded him with talent and yet, he did nothing with it.

the round the players were drafted is about as relevant as what i had for dinner, Jeudy is not very good, Javonte has been average, maybe he'll be better next year further out from his injury but who knows, if not the worst group of offensive weapons can't see how they're not bottom 3. hard to know for sure what his teammates think, maybe you're right but these things can't also get overblown. Sutton showed support for him earlier this year for one.

So they blew the draft picks? Huh. That's what dysfunctional teams do I guess.

I don't know on that. Drafting is really hard. Even teams who do it mostly well like San Francisco still draft a Trey Lance. I make a distinction between dysfunctional and teams that don't draft well.

I know drafting is hard and so does Denver. They haven't drafted a good QB since Elway.

My original point was that Denver used 4 picks in the first two rounds on skill players so the observation that he didn't have much to work with is laughable.

Dysfunctional teams DO get desperate and make lousy trades which is precisely what happened to Denver. They haven't been able to find a QB through the draft so they traded the world for one they thought was a winner. Didn't work. And now they're really hooped with dead cap money, lost draft picks and a coach who makes way too much money to miss the playoffs.

Dysfunction thy name is Denver.

Please list the teams that have a worse group of offensive weapons. I'll bet you can't get to 3.

 

[Mitchie]

Russini] Russell Wilson is expecting to be cut by the Denver Broncos in March, per league sources. For almost two months, the quarterback has been starting knowing the organization was most likely going to move on him from after this season.

crazy so seems like this was the plan all along.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

put me in the minority camp that thinks Russ played pretty well this year, not great but better than a lot of QBs. seems to me and i can be wrong that Payton never wanted Russ to work. I mean yes they won some games but could've let him air it out a bit and take some chances I mean not a ton to lose really. Also Russ really didn't have a whole lot to work with. Sutton was best wr by far, and not much else, running game was meh.

But they didn't trade away the farm and pay him a kings' ransom to play 'pretty well'. I'd argue he's played pretty average and the numbers bear that out. He was brought in to win and win right away. He's been a failure in that regard. His locker room antics are juvenile and his teammates think he's a dork. Denver has 3 WRs on the roster selected in the 1st or 2nd round. A running back taken in the 2nd round. They surrounded him with talent and yet, he did nothing with it.

the round the players were drafted is about as relevant as what i had for dinner, Jeudy is not very good, Javonte has been average, maybe he'll be better next year further out from his injury but who knows, if not the worst group of offensive weapons can't see how they're not bottom 3. hard to know for sure what his teammates think, maybe you're right but these things can't also get overblown. Sutton showed support for him earlier this year for one.

So they blew the draft picks? Huh. That's what dysfunctional teams do I guess.

I don't know on that. Drafting is really hard. Even teams who do it mostly well like San Francisco still draft a Trey Lance. I make a distinction between dysfunctional and teams that don't draft well.

I know drafting is hard and so does Denver. They haven't drafted a good QB since Elway.

My original point was that Denver used 4 picks in the first two rounds on skill players so the observation that he didn't have much to work with is laughable.

Dysfunctional teams DO get desperate and make lousy trades which is precisely what happened to Denver. They haven't been able to find a QB through the draft so they traded the world for one they thought was a winner. Didn't work. And now they're really hooped with dead cap money, lost draft picks and a coach who makes way too much money to miss the playoffs.

Dysfunction thy name is Denver.

Please list the teams that have a worse group of offensive weapons. I'll bet you can't get to 3.

Cardinals
Patriots
Titans

What do I win?

 

[Mitchie]

put me in the minority camp that thinks Russ played pretty well this year, not great but better than a lot of QBs. seems to me and i can be wrong that Payton never wanted Russ to work. I mean yes they won some games but could've let him air it out a bit and take some chances I mean not a ton to lose really. Also Russ really didn't have a whole lot to work with. Sutton was best wr by far, and not much else, running game was meh.

But they didn't trade away the farm and pay him a kings' ransom to play 'pretty well'. I'd argue he's played pretty average and the numbers bear that out. He was brought in to win and win right away. He's been a failure in that regard. His locker room antics are juvenile and his teammates think he's a dork. Denver has 3 WRs on the roster selected in the 1st or 2nd round. A running back taken in the 2nd round. They surrounded him with talent and yet, he did nothing with it.

the round the players were drafted is about as relevant as what i had for dinner, Jeudy is not very good, Javonte has been average, maybe he'll be better next year further out from his injury but who knows, if not the worst group of offensive weapons can't see how they're not bottom 3. hard to know for sure what his teammates think, maybe you're right but these things can't also get overblown. Sutton showed support for him earlier this year for one.

So they blew the draft picks? Huh. That's what dysfunctional teams do I guess.

I don't know on that. Drafting is really hard. Even teams who do it mostly well like San Francisco still draft a Trey Lance. I make a distinction between dysfunctional and teams that don't draft well.

I know drafting is hard and so does Denver. They haven't drafted a good QB since Elway.

My original point was that Denver used 4 picks in the first two rounds on skill players so the observation that he didn't have much to work with is laughable.

Dysfunctional teams DO get desperate and make lousy trades which is precisely what happened to Denver. They haven't been able to find a QB through the draft so they traded the world for one they thought was a winner. Didn't work. And now they're really hooped with dead cap money, lost draft picks and a coach who makes way too much money to miss the playoffs.

Dysfunction thy name is Denver.

Please list the teams that have a worse group of offensive weapons. I'll bet you can't get to 3.

Cardinals
Patriots
Titans

What do I win?

well of course subjectively anyone can get to 3 but Pats is only one that's clear, Cardinals have Marquise Brown and a top 5 TE with comparable RB, Titans have Hopkins who is still a WR1 and Henry while old is still pretty good.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

put me in the minority camp that thinks Russ played pretty well this year, not great but better than a lot of QBs. seems to me and i can be wrong that Payton never wanted Russ to work. I mean yes they won some games but could've let him air it out a bit and take some chances I mean not a ton to lose really. Also Russ really didn't have a whole lot to work with. Sutton was best wr by far, and not much else, running game was meh.

But they didn't trade away the farm and pay him a kings' ransom to play 'pretty well'. I'd argue he's played pretty average and the numbers bear that out. He was brought in to win and win right away. He's been a failure in that regard. His locker room antics are juvenile and his teammates think he's a dork. Denver has 3 WRs on the roster selected in the 1st or 2nd round. A running back taken in the 2nd round. They surrounded him with talent and yet, he did nothing with it.

the round the players were drafted is about as relevant as what i had for dinner, Jeudy is not very good, Javonte has been average, maybe he'll be better next year further out from his injury but who knows, if not the worst group of offensive weapons can't see how they're not bottom 3. hard to know for sure what his teammates think, maybe you're right but these things can't also get overblown. Sutton showed support for him earlier this year for one.

So they blew the draft picks? Huh. That's what dysfunctional teams do I guess.

I don't know on that. Drafting is really hard. Even teams who do it mostly well like San Francisco still draft a Trey Lance. I make a distinction between dysfunctional and teams that don't draft well.

I know drafting is hard and so does Denver. They haven't drafted a good QB since Elway.

My original point was that Denver used 4 picks in the first two rounds on skill players so the observation that he didn't have much to work with is laughable.

Dysfunctional teams DO get desperate and make lousy trades which is precisely what happened to Denver. They haven't been able to find a QB through the draft so they traded the world for one they thought was a winner. Didn't work. And now they're really hooped with dead cap money, lost draft picks and a coach who makes way too much money to miss the playoffs.

Dysfunction thy name is Denver.

Please list the teams that have a worse group of offensive weapons. I'll bet you can't get to 3.

Cardinals
Patriots
Titans

What do I win?

well of course subjectively anyone can get to 3 but Pats is only one that's clear, Cardinals have Marquise Brown and a top 5 TE with comparable RB, Titans have Hopkins who is still a WR1 and Henry while old is still pretty good.

Marquise brown? When he can even stay on the field, I don’t think he’s better than Jeudy or Sutton.

Titans I guess are interesting but Hopkins is clearly on the downside, so I’m not sure I would go there.

Oh, panthers also.

Im not here to defend Russ or the broncos, just talking about their overall offensive talent.

 

[travdogg]

Wilson is still a solid enough starting QB, I'm sure he'll have no problems finding a starting job this offseason. Atlanta would be running away with the NFC South right now if they'd had Russ at QB this season.

 

[Mitchie]

put me in the minority camp that thinks Russ played pretty well this year, not great but better than a lot of QBs. seems to me and i can be wrong that Payton never wanted Russ to work. I mean yes they won some games but could've let him air it out a bit and take some chances I mean not a ton to lose really. Also Russ really didn't have a whole lot to work with. Sutton was best wr by far, and not much else, running game was meh.

But they didn't trade away the farm and pay him a kings' ransom to play 'pretty well'. I'd argue he's played pretty average and the numbers bear that out. He was brought in to win and win right away. He's been a failure in that regard. His locker room antics are juvenile and his teammates think he's a dork. Denver has 3 WRs on the roster selected in the 1st or 2nd round. A running back taken in the 2nd round. They surrounded him with talent and yet, he did nothing with it.

the round the players were drafted is about as relevant as what i had for dinner, Jeudy is not very good, Javonte has been average, maybe he'll be better next year further out from his injury but who knows, if not the worst group of offensive weapons can't see how they're not bottom 3. hard to know for sure what his teammates think, maybe you're right but these things can't also get overblown. Sutton showed support for him earlier this year for one.

So they blew the draft picks? Huh. That's what dysfunctional teams do I guess.

I don't know on that. Drafting is really hard. Even teams who do it mostly well like San Francisco still draft a Trey Lance. I make a distinction between dysfunctional and teams that don't draft well.

I know drafting is hard and so does Denver. They haven't drafted a good QB since Elway.

My original point was that Denver used 4 picks in the first two rounds on skill players so the observation that he didn't have much to work with is laughable.

Dysfunctional teams DO get desperate and make lousy trades which is precisely what happened to Denver. They haven't been able to find a QB through the draft so they traded the world for one they thought was a winner. Didn't work. And now they're really hooped with dead cap money, lost draft picks and a coach who makes way too much money to miss the playoffs.

Dysfunction thy name is Denver.

Please list the teams that have a worse group of offensive weapons. I'll bet you can't get to 3.

Cardinals
Patriots
Titans

What do I win?

well of course subjectively anyone can get to 3 but Pats is only one that's clear, Cardinals have Marquise Brown and a top 5 TE with comparable RB, Titans have Hopkins who is still a WR1 and Henry while old is still pretty good.

Marquise brown? When he can even stay on the field, I don’t think he’s better than Jeudy or Sutton.

Titans I guess are interesting but Hopkins is clearly on the downside, so I’m not sure I would go there.

Oh, panthers also.

Im not here to defend Russ or the broncos, just talking about their overall offensive talent.

a few teams are debateable but what is laughable is that anyone thinks they have anything but the lowest tier of offensive talent

 

[Ghost Rider]

Apparently Russ was told he'd be inactive unless he restructured his contract, and he was 'shocked' and said no.

Good. The Broncos organization getting buried by his contract for years feels like something they deserve.

 

[Bears_Man2]

Well he was better than last season. Though he couldn't have been worse.

He's cooked. Some bad organization will give him another chance this off-season and he'll flame out again.

For good this time.

 

[Yenrub]

Also wonder how the teams around the Broncos in terms of overall record feel about the team basically packing in the tent the rest of the way.

Not seeing a "give up" at at all with this change.

Stidham was hand-picked by Payton and aggressively pursued in the offseason, paid a lot of money for a backup ($5mm/yr), and his skillset is much more suited toward Payton's offense.

This could very well be an upgrade

That is the issue with too many coaches. They don't want players who don't fit their scheme, but if you have a good player, you tweak your system to fit that player's skillset. All we've heard for 15 years if what an offensive genius Sean Payton supposedly is, yet Russell Wilson apparently didn't fit his scheme. I said to a friend months ago that Payton would make Wilson the fall guy for this season, and here we are.

And don't get me wrong, Wilson's contact is an issue. When you are getting paid that much money, you can't just be "good" like he was this year; you need to be a difference maker. And he wasn't, but I cannot help but wonder if things had been different if Payton had been on board with him. It seemed like Payton didn't want Wilson from the start, which makes it strange as to why he even signed to coach the Broncos, as Wilson and his contract weren't a secret.

Wilson played decently this season, but he didn’t live up to that contract.
Sean Payton is Mike McCarthy with better PR and friends in the media.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

Also wonder how the teams around the Broncos in terms of overall record feel about the team basically packing in the tent the rest of the way.

Not seeing a "give up" at at all with this change.

Stidham was hand-picked by Payton and aggressively pursued in the offseason, paid a lot of money for a backup ($5mm/yr), and his skillset is much more suited toward Payton's offense.

This could very well be an upgrade

That is the issue with too many coaches. They don't want players who don't fit their scheme, but if you have a good player, you tweak your system to fit that player's skillset. All we've heard for 15 years if what an offensive genius Sean Payton supposedly is, yet Russell Wilson apparently didn't fit his scheme. I said to a friend months ago that Payton would make Wilson the fall guy for this season, and here we are.

And don't get me wrong, Wilson's contact is an issue. When you are getting paid that much money, you can't just be "good" like he was this year; you need to be a difference maker. And he wasn't, but I cannot help but wonder if things had been different if Payton had been on board with him. It seemed like Payton didn't want Wilson from the start, which makes it strange as to why he even signed to coach the Broncos, as Wilson and his contract weren't a secret.

Wilson played decently this season, but he didn’t live up to that contract.
Sean Payton is Mike McCarthy with better PR and friends in the media.

Both won a Super Bowl with a HOF QB. The difference is that Payton had/has a good relationship with his QB, while McCarthy’s QB openly disrespected him.

 

[-OZ-]

Is there any chance Justin fields fits Payton’s plans?

I personally don't think Sean Payton is creative enough to use Justin Fields.

Our Cecil Lammey is a Denver Insider and he describes Wilson as a "Chaos QB" meaning he thrives on improvisation. Payton is much more a structured QB guy it seems. I think he's massively talented as a coach and more than creative enough. I just don't think it's the type of QB that seems to thrive in his systems.

I think a healthy Kirk Cousins would be a nice fit there if they can afford it.

I’d like to introduce Sean Payton to Ryan tannehill.

 

[zamboni]

Is there any chance Justin fields fits Payton’s plans?

I personally don't think Sean Payton is creative enough to use Justin Fields.

Our Cecil Lammey is a Denver Insider and he describes Wilson as a "Chaos QB" meaning he thrives on improvisation. Payton is much more a structured QB guy it seems. I think he's massively talented as a coach and more than creative enough. I just don't think it's the type of QB that seems to thrive in his systems.

I think a healthy Kirk Cousins would be a nice fit there if they can afford it.

I’d like to introduce Sean Payton to Ryan tannehill.

I could also see that as a cheap bridge option.

 

[MAC_32]

But who is walking through that door to do better? They aren't in position to get a top QB in this draft.

I wonder if it's a play for 2025 with a tear down leading into 2024. Payton has the job security to see through a reset year and have patience beyond. The core of the team isn't good enough to win as is, they won't have the $ to get better, and they have a lot of ~30 year old's they can move on from rather easily.

Reads like I misunderstood the terms of the March 21 trigger. Based on what insiders are reporting, the Broncos will be on the hook for the '25 $ if he's on the roster that day. If he's gonna get whacked before then and the Broncos eat all the dead money in '24 then that'll put the Broncos ~$68m over the cap. If they cut/trade Sutton, Simmons, Bolles (he's the one I'd try to re-structure, but based on prior comments I don't think he wants to sit through a rebuild), Jones, and Patrick that will free up ~$61m and if they can find someone to take on the Jeudy contract that'll cover the rest and leave enough room to sign rookies. Then they can set their sights on 2025 as this is what's left:

Stidham
Jav Williams and McLaughlin (assume Perine's out)
Mims, Johnson, and...?
Dulcich
McGlinchey, Powers, Meinerz, and 2 unknowns

Zach Allen, Browning, Cooper, and Bonito
Singleton and Sanders
Surtain, McMillan, and...?

They'll add some other cheap gambles (Mac Jones?), but I can't imagine looking at this foundation and saying I just need some vets to compete, so defer some $ against next year's cap.

 

[General Malaise]

put me in the minority camp that thinks Russ played pretty well this year, not great but better than a lot of QBs. seems to me and i can be wrong that Payton never wanted Russ to work. I mean yes they won some games but could've let him air it out a bit and take some chances I mean not a ton to lose really. Also Russ really didn't have a whole lot to work with. Sutton was best wr by far, and not much else, running game was meh.

But they didn't trade away the farm and pay him a kings' ransom to play 'pretty well'. I'd argue he's played pretty average and the numbers bear that out. He was brought in to win and win right away. He's been a failure in that regard. His locker room antics are juvenile and his teammates think he's a dork. Denver has 3 WRs on the roster selected in the 1st or 2nd round. A running back taken in the 2nd round. They surrounded him with talent and yet, he did nothing with it.

the round the players were drafted is about as relevant as what i had for dinner, Jeudy is not very good, Javonte has been average, maybe he'll be better next year further out from his injury but who knows, if not the worst group of offensive weapons can't see how they're not bottom 3. hard to know for sure what his teammates think, maybe you're right but these things can't also get overblown. Sutton showed support for him earlier this year for one.

So they blew the draft picks? Huh. That's what dysfunctional teams do I guess.

I don't know on that. Drafting is really hard. Even teams who do it mostly well like San Francisco still draft a Trey Lance. I make a distinction between dysfunctional and teams that don't draft well.

I know drafting is hard and so does Denver. They haven't drafted a good QB since Elway.

My original point was that Denver used 4 picks in the first two rounds on skill players so the observation that he didn't have much to work with is laughable.

Dysfunctional teams DO get desperate and make lousy trades which is precisely what happened to Denver. They haven't been able to find a QB through the draft so they traded the world for one they thought was a winner. Didn't work. And now they're really hooped with dead cap money, lost draft picks and a coach who makes way too much money to miss the playoffs.

Dysfunction thy name is Denver.

I think we'll just have to disagree there. I've not seen enough to call it dysfunction yet. But we'll see.

It feels to me like they fell for the thing I can see all teams falling for - the realization a QB is the all-important piece, and they believed a former star was worth breaking the bank for. Same thing with Deshaun Watson. When it's the life or death piece, you can talk yourself into things.

Joe.....

Since Denver won the SB with Manning and Kubiak in 2016, they have hired 4 different head coaches. That sort of impatience just stinks of dysfunction.

They blew a 2nd round pick on Brock Osweiler to be the replacement to Manning and it flopped. They spent a 1st rounder on Paxton Lynch who got all of 4 starts before they gave up. Then blew another 1st on Drew Lock who they also gave up on.

They signed Joe Flacco to right the ship. Bust. Gave Case Keenum a shot. Whoops. Trevor Semien earned a starting job. Really?

And to your point they got so desperate that they gave up the farm to get a system QB and committed so much money to him that they hamstrung themselves.

7 years from Super Bowl Champs to a sub .500 team with a huge financial problem. If it's not dysfunction what is it?

 

[General Malaise]

put me in the minority camp that thinks Russ played pretty well this year, not great but better than a lot of QBs. seems to me and i can be wrong that Payton never wanted Russ to work. I mean yes they won some games but could've let him air it out a bit and take some chances I mean not a ton to lose really. Also Russ really didn't have a whole lot to work with. Sutton was best wr by far, and not much else, running game was meh.

But they didn't trade away the farm and pay him a kings' ransom to play 'pretty well'. I'd argue he's played pretty average and the numbers bear that out. He was brought in to win and win right away. He's been a failure in that regard. His locker room antics are juvenile and his teammates think he's a dork. Denver has 3 WRs on the roster selected in the 1st or 2nd round. A running back taken in the 2nd round. They surrounded him with talent and yet, he did nothing with it.

the round the players were drafted is about as relevant as what i had for dinner, Jeudy is not very good, Javonte has been average, maybe he'll be better next year further out from his injury but who knows, if not the worst group of offensive weapons can't see how they're not bottom 3. hard to know for sure what his teammates think, maybe you're right but these things can't also get overblown. Sutton showed support for him earlier this year for one.

So they blew the draft picks? Huh. That's what dysfunctional teams do I guess.

I don't know on that. Drafting is really hard. Even teams who do it mostly well like San Francisco still draft a Trey Lance. I make a distinction between dysfunctional and teams that don't draft well.

I know drafting is hard and so does Denver. They haven't drafted a good QB since Elway.

My original point was that Denver used 4 picks in the first two rounds on skill players so the observation that he didn't have much to work with is laughable.

Dysfunctional teams DO get desperate and make lousy trades which is precisely what happened to Denver. They haven't been able to find a QB through the draft so they traded the world for one they thought was a winner. Didn't work. And now they're really hooped with dead cap money, lost draft picks and a coach who makes way too much money to miss the playoffs.

Dysfunction thy name is Denver.

Please list the teams that have a worse group of offensive weapons. I'll bet you can't get to 3.

Panthers, Cardinals and Chiefs. That was easy.

 

[General Malaise]

Wilson is still a solid enough starting QB, I'm sure he'll have no problems finding a starting job this offseason. Atlanta would be running away with the NFC South right now if they'd had Russ at QB this season.

Wilson is the new Joe Flacco.

 

[-OZ-]

They'll add some other cheap gambles (Mac Jones?),

Funny enough, Mac might be exactly the type of QB Payton would thrive with.

 

[MAC_32]

put me in the minority camp that thinks Russ played pretty well this year, not great but better than a lot of QBs. seems to me and i can be wrong that Payton never wanted Russ to work. I mean yes they won some games but could've let him air it out a bit and take some chances I mean not a ton to lose really. Also Russ really didn't have a whole lot to work with. Sutton was best wr by far, and not much else, running game was meh.

But they didn't trade away the farm and pay him a kings' ransom to play 'pretty well'. I'd argue he's played pretty average and the numbers bear that out. He was brought in to win and win right away. He's been a failure in that regard. His locker room antics are juvenile and his teammates think he's a dork. Denver has 3 WRs on the roster selected in the 1st or 2nd round. A running back taken in the 2nd round. They surrounded him with talent and yet, he did nothing with it.

the round the players were drafted is about as relevant as what i had for dinner, Jeudy is not very good, Javonte has been average, maybe he'll be better next year further out from his injury but who knows, if not the worst group of offensive weapons can't see how they're not bottom 3. hard to know for sure what his teammates think, maybe you're right but these things can't also get overblown. Sutton showed support for him earlier this year for one.

So they blew the draft picks? Huh. That's what dysfunctional teams do I guess.

I don't know on that. Drafting is really hard. Even teams who do it mostly well like San Francisco still draft a Trey Lance. I make a distinction between dysfunctional and teams that don't draft well.

I know drafting is hard and so does Denver. They haven't drafted a good QB since Elway.

My original point was that Denver used 4 picks in the first two rounds on skill players so the observation that he didn't have much to work with is laughable.

Dysfunctional teams DO get desperate and make lousy trades which is precisely what happened to Denver. They haven't been able to find a QB through the draft so they traded the world for one they thought was a winner. Didn't work. And now they're really hooped with dead cap money, lost draft picks and a coach who makes way too much money to miss the playoffs.

Dysfunction thy name is Denver.

I think we'll just have to disagree there. I've not seen enough to call it dysfunction yet. But we'll see.

It feels to me like they fell for the thing I can see all teams falling for - the realization a QB is the all-important piece, and they believed a former star was worth breaking the bank for. Same thing with Deshaun Watson. When it's the life or death piece, you can talk yourself into things.

Joe.....

Since Denver won the SB with Manning and Kubiak in 2016, they have hired 4 different head coaches. That sort of impatience just stinks of dysfunction.

They blew a 2nd round pick on Brock Osweiler to be the replacement to Manning and it flopped. They spent a 1st rounder on Paxton Lynch who got all of 4 starts before they gave up. Then blew another 1st on Drew Lock who they also gave up on.

They signed Joe Flacco to right the ship. Bust. Gave Case Keenum a shot. Whoops. Trevor Semien earned a starting job. Really?

And to your point they got so desperate that they gave up the farm to get a system QB and committed so much money to him that they hamstrung themselves.

7 years from Super Bowl Champs to a sub .500 team with a huge financial problem. If it's not dysfunction what is it?

Were the Walton's in place for the Wilson trade? I know they weren't before then, but don't remember the timing associated with that move.

 

[General Malaise]

put me in the minority camp that thinks Russ played pretty well this year, not great but better than a lot of QBs. seems to me and i can be wrong that Payton never wanted Russ to work. I mean yes they won some games but could've let him air it out a bit and take some chances I mean not a ton to lose really. Also Russ really didn't have a whole lot to work with. Sutton was best wr by far, and not much else, running game was meh.

But they didn't trade away the farm and pay him a kings' ransom to play 'pretty well'. I'd argue he's played pretty average and the numbers bear that out. He was brought in to win and win right away. He's been a failure in that regard. His locker room antics are juvenile and his teammates think he's a dork. Denver has 3 WRs on the roster selected in the 1st or 2nd round. A running back taken in the 2nd round. They surrounded him with talent and yet, he did nothing with it.

the round the players were drafted is about as relevant as what i had for dinner, Jeudy is not very good, Javonte has been average, maybe he'll be better next year further out from his injury but who knows, if not the worst group of offensive weapons can't see how they're not bottom 3. hard to know for sure what his teammates think, maybe you're right but these things can't also get overblown. Sutton showed support for him earlier this year for one.

So they blew the draft picks? Huh. That's what dysfunctional teams do I guess.

I don't know on that. Drafting is really hard. Even teams who do it mostly well like San Francisco still draft a Trey Lance. I make a distinction between dysfunctional and teams that don't draft well.

I know drafting is hard and so does Denver. They haven't drafted a good QB since Elway.

My original point was that Denver used 4 picks in the first two rounds on skill players so the observation that he didn't have much to work with is laughable.

Dysfunctional teams DO get desperate and make lousy trades which is precisely what happened to Denver. They haven't been able to find a QB through the draft so they traded the world for one they thought was a winner. Didn't work. And now they're really hooped with dead cap money, lost draft picks and a coach who makes way too much money to miss the playoffs.

Dysfunction thy name is Denver.

Please list the teams that have a worse group of offensive weapons. I'll bet you can't get to 3.

Cardinals
Patriots
Titans

What do I win?

well of course subjectively anyone can get to 3 but Pats is only one that's clear, Cardinals have Marquise Brown and a top 5 TE with comparable RB, Titans have Hopkins who is still a WR1 and Henry while old is still pretty good.

Marquise brown? When he can even stay on the field, I don’t think he’s better than Jeudy or Sutton.

Titans I guess are interesting but Hopkins is clearly on the downside, so I’m not sure I would go there.

Oh, panthers also.

Im not here to defend Russ or the broncos, just talking about their overall offensive talent.

a few teams are debateable but what is laughable is that anyone thinks they have anything but the lowest tier of offensive talent

But my guy.....they keep drafting skill players in the 1st and 2nd rounds. What more do you want them to do?

 

[MAC_32]

They'll add some other cheap gambles (Mac Jones?),

Funny enough, Mac might be exactly the type of QB Payton would thrive with.

I don't think thrive is the right word, but Payton may be able to make him functional with enough around him.

 

[General Malaise]

put me in the minority camp that thinks Russ played pretty well this year, not great but better than a lot of QBs. seems to me and i can be wrong that Payton never wanted Russ to work. I mean yes they won some games but could've let him air it out a bit and take some chances I mean not a ton to lose really. Also Russ really didn't have a whole lot to work with. Sutton was best wr by far, and not much else, running game was meh.

But they didn't trade away the farm and pay him a kings' ransom to play 'pretty well'. I'd argue he's played pretty average and the numbers bear that out. He was brought in to win and win right away. He's been a failure in that regard. His locker room antics are juvenile and his teammates think he's a dork. Denver has 3 WRs on the roster selected in the 1st or 2nd round. A running back taken in the 2nd round. They surrounded him with talent and yet, he did nothing with it.

the round the players were drafted is about as relevant as what i had for dinner, Jeudy is not very good, Javonte has been average, maybe he'll be better next year further out from his injury but who knows, if not the worst group of offensive weapons can't see how they're not bottom 3. hard to know for sure what his teammates think, maybe you're right but these things can't also get overblown. Sutton showed support for him earlier this year for one.

So they blew the draft picks? Huh. That's what dysfunctional teams do I guess.

I don't know on that. Drafting is really hard. Even teams who do it mostly well like San Francisco still draft a Trey Lance. I make a distinction between dysfunctional and teams that don't draft well.

I know drafting is hard and so does Denver. They haven't drafted a good QB since Elway.

My original point was that Denver used 4 picks in the first two rounds on skill players so the observation that he didn't have much to work with is laughable.

Dysfunctional teams DO get desperate and make lousy trades which is precisely what happened to Denver. They haven't been able to find a QB through the draft so they traded the world for one they thought was a winner. Didn't work. And now they're really hooped with dead cap money, lost draft picks and a coach who makes way too much money to miss the playoffs.

Dysfunction thy name is Denver.

I think we'll just have to disagree there. I've not seen enough to call it dysfunction yet. But we'll see.

It feels to me like they fell for the thing I can see all teams falling for - the realization a QB is the all-important piece, and they believed a former star was worth breaking the bank for. Same thing with Deshaun Watson. When it's the life or death piece, you can talk yourself into things.

Joe.....

Since Denver won the SB with Manning and Kubiak in 2016, they have hired 4 different head coaches. That sort of impatience just stinks of dysfunction.

They blew a 2nd round pick on Brock Osweiler to be the replacement to Manning and it flopped. They spent a 1st rounder on Paxton Lynch who got all of 4 starts before they gave up. Then blew another 1st on Drew Lock who they also gave up on.

They signed Joe Flacco to right the ship. Bust. Gave Case Keenum a shot. Whoops. Trevor Semien earned a starting job. Really?

And to your point they got so desperate that they gave up the farm to get a system QB and committed so much money to him that they hamstrung themselves.

7 years from Super Bowl Champs to a sub .500 team with a huge financial problem. If it's not dysfunction what is it?

Were the Walton's in place for the Wilson trade? I know they weren't before then, but don't remember the timing associated with that move.

No, but they were in place when they gave the Saints a 1st and a 2nd for a head coach. Laughably bad idea.

 

[MAC_32]

put me in the minority camp that thinks Russ played pretty well this year, not great but better than a lot of QBs. seems to me and i can be wrong that Payton never wanted Russ to work. I mean yes they won some games but could've let him air it out a bit and take some chances I mean not a ton to lose really. Also Russ really didn't have a whole lot to work with. Sutton was best wr by far, and not much else, running game was meh.

But they didn't trade away the farm and pay him a kings' ransom to play 'pretty well'. I'd argue he's played pretty average and the numbers bear that out. He was brought in to win and win right away. He's been a failure in that regard. His locker room antics are juvenile and his teammates think he's a dork. Denver has 3 WRs on the roster selected in the 1st or 2nd round. A running back taken in the 2nd round. They surrounded him with talent and yet, he did nothing with it.

the round the players were drafted is about as relevant as what i had for dinner, Jeudy is not very good, Javonte has been average, maybe he'll be better next year further out from his injury but who knows, if not the worst group of offensive weapons can't see how they're not bottom 3. hard to know for sure what his teammates think, maybe you're right but these things can't also get overblown. Sutton showed support for him earlier this year for one.

So they blew the draft picks? Huh. That's what dysfunctional teams do I guess.

I don't know on that. Drafting is really hard. Even teams who do it mostly well like San Francisco still draft a Trey Lance. I make a distinction between dysfunctional and teams that don't draft well.

I know drafting is hard and so does Denver. They haven't drafted a good QB since Elway.

My original point was that Denver used 4 picks in the first two rounds on skill players so the observation that he didn't have much to work with is laughable.

Dysfunctional teams DO get desperate and make lousy trades which is precisely what happened to Denver. They haven't been able to find a QB through the draft so they traded the world for one they thought was a winner. Didn't work. And now they're really hooped with dead cap money, lost draft picks and a coach who makes way too much money to miss the playoffs.

Dysfunction thy name is Denver.

I think we'll just have to disagree there. I've not seen enough to call it dysfunction yet. But we'll see.

It feels to me like they fell for the thing I can see all teams falling for - the realization a QB is the all-important piece, and they believed a former star was worth breaking the bank for. Same thing with Deshaun Watson. When it's the life or death piece, you can talk yourself into things.

Joe.....

Since Denver won the SB with Manning and Kubiak in 2016, they have hired 4 different head coaches. That sort of impatience just stinks of dysfunction.

They blew a 2nd round pick on Brock Osweiler to be the replacement to Manning and it flopped. They spent a 1st rounder on Paxton Lynch who got all of 4 starts before they gave up. Then blew another 1st on Drew Lock who they also gave up on.

They signed Joe Flacco to right the ship. Bust. Gave Case Keenum a shot. Whoops. Trevor Semien earned a starting job. Really?

And to your point they got so desperate that they gave up the farm to get a system QB and committed so much money to him that they hamstrung themselves.

7 years from Super Bowl Champs to a sub .500 team with a huge financial problem. If it's not dysfunction what is it?

Were the Walton's in place for the Wilson trade? I know they weren't before then, but don't remember the timing associated with that move.

No, but they were in place when they gave the Saints a 1st and a 2nd for a head coach. Laughably bad idea.

This is why I think the tank has legs, but nowhere near sure Payton has the patience to see that through.

 

[Judge Smails]

Pretty shady IMO - Russ has actually played well this year, not to mention the team actually has an outside shot of getting into the playoffs.

I agree. I think Russ has played well this year. Payton has made it a more conservative offense, and Russ has stayed within that framework. It’s basically been Sutton or bust. Jeudy has been terrible. No other real threats in the passing game. Disagree with this move.

 

[Judge Smails]

Some more details emerging:

https://x.com/schultz_report/status/1740121494343045508?s=46&t=kXp9uTPT7MTZKlfkEtBQZw

That sucks. They signed the contract. Honor it. Why would any player agree to remove injury guarantees, when NFL owners will gladly throw injured players to the trash heap any chance they get? I wouldn’t have agreed to removing that clause either.

 

[General Malaise]

Pretty shady IMO - Russ has actually played well this year, not to mention the team actually has an outside shot of getting into the playoffs.

I agree. I think Russ has played well this year. Payton has made it a more conservative offense, and Russ has stayed within that framework. It’s basically been Sutton or bust. Jeudy has been terrible. No other real threats in the passing game. Disagree with this move.

If he played well, why is the team sub .500 with 2 games left?

 

[Desert_Power]

So how much money does Russ get total from this deal? Will be interesting to see where he plays next year. Some bad QB play in this league.

 

[Judge Smails]

put me in the minority camp that thinks Russ played pretty well this year, not great but better than a lot of QBs. seems to me and i can be wrong that Payton never wanted Russ to work. I mean yes they won some games but could've let him air it out a bit and take some chances I mean not a ton to lose really. Also Russ really didn't have a whole lot to work with. Sutton was best wr by far, and not much else, running game was meh.

But they didn't trade away the farm and pay him a kings' ransom to play 'pretty well'. I'd argue he's played pretty average and the numbers bear that out. He was brought in to win and win right away. He's been a failure in that regard. His locker room antics are juvenile and his teammates think he's a dork. Denver has 3 WRs on the roster selected in the 1st or 2nd round. A running back taken in the 2nd round. They surrounded him with talent and yet, he did nothing with it.

the round the players were drafted is about as relevant as what i had for dinner, Jeudy is not very good, Javonte has been average, maybe he'll be better next year further out from his injury but who knows, if not the worst group of offensive weapons can't see how they're not bottom 3. hard to know for sure what his teammates think, maybe you're right but these things can't also get overblown. Sutton showed support for him earlier this year for one.

So they blew the draft picks? Huh. That's what dysfunctional teams do I guess.

I don't know on that. Drafting is really hard. Even teams who do it mostly well like San Francisco still draft a Trey Lance. I make a distinction between dysfunctional and teams that don't draft well.

I know drafting is hard and so does Denver. They haven't drafted a good QB since Elway.

My original point was that Denver used 4 picks in the first two rounds on skill players so the observation that he didn't have much to work with is laughable.

Dysfunctional teams DO get desperate and make lousy trades which is precisely what happened to Denver. They haven't been able to find a QB through the draft so they traded the world for one they thought was a winner. Didn't work. And now they're really hooped with dead cap money, lost draft picks and a coach who makes way too much money to miss the playoffs.

Dysfunction thy name is Denver.

Please list the teams that have a worse group of offensive weapons. I'll bet you can't get to 3.

Cardinals
Patriots
Titans

What do I win?

Chiefs?

 

[Ghost Rider]

Also wonder how the teams around the Broncos in terms of overall record feel about the team basically packing in the tent the rest of the way.

Not seeing a "give up" at at all with this change.

Stidham was hand-picked by Payton and aggressively pursued in the offseason, paid a lot of money for a backup ($5mm/yr), and his skillset is much more suited toward Payton's offense.

This could very well be an upgrade

That is the issue with too many coaches. They don't want players who don't fit their scheme, but if you have a good player, you tweak your system to fit that player's skillset. All we've heard for 15 years if what an offensive genius Sean Payton supposedly is, yet Russell Wilson apparently didn't fit his scheme. I said to a friend months ago that Payton would make Wilson the fall guy for this season, and here we are.

And don't get me wrong, Wilson's contact is an issue. When you are getting paid that much money, you can't just be "good" like he was this year; you need to be a difference maker. And he wasn't, but I cannot help but wonder if things had been different if Payton had been on board with him. It seemed like Payton didn't want Wilson from the start, which makes it strange as to why he even signed to coach the Broncos, as Wilson and his contract weren't a secret.

Wilson played decently this season, but he didn’t live up to that contract.
Sean Payton is Mike McCarthy with better PR and friends in the media.

If that ain't the truth. Working at Fox Sports for a year has resulted in some there having his back like he has something on them.

 

[zamboni]

Pretty shady IMO - Russ has actually played well this year, not to mention the team actually has an outside shot of getting into the playoffs.

I agree. I think Russ has played well this year. Payton has made it a more conservative offense, and Russ has stayed within that framework. It’s basically been Sutton or bust. Jeudy has been terrible. No other real threats in the passing game. Disagree with this move.

If he played well, why is the team sub .500 with 2 games left?

Only one game below .500. By comparison, Stroud and the Texans are only one game over .500 (two if you take out the game he missed). Obviously QB is only part of it.

 

[Capella]

oh boy

[Siciliano] Sean Payton on if Russell Wilson is getting too much blame: "I can't replace the entire offensive line. I can't bring in five new receivers..."

[Schultz] The #Broncos threatened to bench Russell Wilson weeks ago if he didn’t remove his injury guarantees. Russell Wilson’s benching by the Broncos today is solely financially related and has been in the works for weeks

LOL he’s not going to be able to do any of that with all that dead cap hit either.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

They can cut him after June 1st and eat $52M in '24 and another $32M in '25, oh yeah that sounds terrific
Why would anyone do that?
At least make Russ carry everyone's bags to and from the parking lot, have him take tickets at the gates and he can usher in the upper decks for home games
Get your money's worth, Denver

 

[General Malaise]

Pretty shady IMO - Russ has actually played well this year, not to mention the team actually has an outside shot of getting into the playoffs.

I agree. I think Russ has played well this year. Payton has made it a more conservative offense, and Russ has stayed within that framework. It’s basically been Sutton or bust. Jeudy has been terrible. No other real threats in the passing game. Disagree with this move.

If he played well, why is the team sub .500 with 2 games left?

Only one game below .500. By comparison, Stroud and the Texans are only one game over .500 (two if you take out the game he missed). Obviously QB is only part of it.

QB is a HUGE part of it! Ask the Jets. Houston wasn't expected to be this competitive this quickly. Stroud has a lot to do with their immediate success.

Wilson in two years with Denver has been a failure. There isn't a nicer way to put it. He was traded for AND paid to be the answer in Denevr right away. They gave up the sun and the moon and the firmanent for Wilson and he bombed. They blamed Nathaniel Hackett for year one's disastrous performance then traded even more assets for a head coach and that bombed. Guys......it ain't the coaches. It ain't the players around him. It's Wilson.

Or maybe if his defense yelled RUN OR PASS like he wanted them to they'd be better. That's probably it.

 

[travdogg]

Pretty shady IMO - Russ has actually played well this year, not to mention the team actually has an outside shot of getting into the playoffs.

I agree. I think Russ has played well this year. Payton has made it a more conservative offense, and Russ has stayed within that framework. It’s basically been Sutton or bust. Jeudy has been terrible. No other real threats in the passing game. Disagree with this move.

If he played well, why is the team sub .500 with 2 games left?

Only one game below .500. By comparison, Stroud and the Texans are only one game over .500 (two if you take out the game he missed). Obviously QB is only part of it.

QB is a HUGE part of it! Ask the Jets. Houston wasn't expected to be this competitive this quickly. Stroud has a lot to do with their immediate success.

Wilson in two years with Denver has been a failure. There isn't a nicer way to put it. He was traded for AND paid to be the answer in Denevr right away. They gave up the sun and the moon and the firmanent for Wilson and he bombed. They blamed Nathaniel Hackett for year one's disastrous performance then traded even more assets for a head coach and that bombed. Guys......it ain't the coaches. It ain't the players around him. It's Wilson.

Or maybe if his defense yelled RUN OR PASS like he wanted them to they'd be better. That's probably it.

That's being pretty unfair to Wilson. Yes, QB is important (obviously) but let's not act like the Broncos are some loaded team that is being held back by QB play. This is a bad team, with very few quality players. The first half of the season they had a historically bad run defense.

Wilson is still a decent starter, sure that's not what Denver paid for, but he's been the least of their problems, unless their plan was for him to be Josh Allen and just singlehandedly win games for them, which is an awful plan regardless of who the QB is.

I get the move by Denver, I hate it, but I get it. I do think its much more likely whomever they get next year will likely fare worse than Wilson has. As an aside, I don't like the Houston comparison at all. Let's not normalize the season CJ Stroud has had as if its something that is reasonable to expect. He's been arguably the greatest rookie QB in NFL history.