QB Russell Wilson, NYG (3 Viewers)

[General Malaise]

Pretty shady IMO - Russ has actually played well this year, not to mention the team actually has an outside shot of getting into the playoffs.

I agree. I think Russ has played well this year. Payton has made it a more conservative offense, and Russ has stayed within that framework. It’s basically been Sutton or bust. Jeudy has been terrible. No other real threats in the passing game. Disagree with this move.

If he played well, why is the team sub .500 with 2 games left?

Only one game below .500. By comparison, Stroud and the Texans are only one game over .500 (two if you take out the game he missed). Obviously QB is only part of it.

QB is a HUGE part of it! Ask the Jets. Houston wasn't expected to be this competitive this quickly. Stroud has a lot to do with their immediate success.

Wilson in two years with Denver has been a failure. There isn't a nicer way to put it. He was traded for AND paid to be the answer in Denevr right away. They gave up the sun and the moon and the firmanent for Wilson and he bombed. They blamed Nathaniel Hackett for year one's disastrous performance then traded even more assets for a head coach and that bombed. Guys......it ain't the coaches. It ain't the players around him. It's Wilson.

Or maybe if his defense yelled RUN OR PASS like he wanted them to they'd be better. That's probably it.

That's being pretty unfair to Wilson. Yes, QB is important (obviously) but let's not act like the Broncos are some loaded team that is being held back by QB play. This is a bad team, with very few quality players. The first half of the season they had a historically bad run defense.

Wilson is still a decent starter, sure that's not what Denver paid for, but he's been the least of their problems, unless their plan was for him to be Josh Allen and just singlehandedly win games for them, which is an awful plan regardless of who the QB is.

I get the move by Denver, I hate it, but I get it. I do think its much more likely whomever they get next year will likely fare worse than Wilson has. As an aside, I don't like the Houston comparison at all. Let's not normalize the season CJ Stroud has had as if its something that is reasonable to expect. He's been arguably the greatest rookie QB in NFL history.

I didn't bring Houston into this; that was an odd non sequitur but I wasn't the author of it.

A decent starter isn't what they paid for. They paid the price with picks and money for an elite starter. And we will disagree vehemently that he was "decent" last year. He sucked out loud last year. He was so bad his rookie HC got fired before he got a full season to coach. Decent my eye.

As I've said now multiple times, they have 1st and 2nd round picks at WR/RB. What more are they supposed to do? They threw draft picks away to get Wilson and then Payton and can't afford free agents because of the money they guaranteed to Wilson. It's a mess. A huge mess. A dysfunctional mess. Not fair to Wilson? Wilson is THE reason why they're in this miasma. It's not even debatable.

 

[Yenrub]

Pretty shady IMO - Russ has actually played well this year, not to mention the team actually has an outside shot of getting into the playoffs.

I agree. I think Russ has played well this year. Payton has made it a more conservative offense, and Russ has stayed within that framework. It’s basically been Sutton or bust. Jeudy has been terrible. No other real threats in the passing game. Disagree with this move.

If he played well, why is the team sub .500 with 2 games left?

Only one game below .500. By comparison, Stroud and the Texans are only one game over .500 (two if you take out the game he missed). Obviously QB is only part of it.

QB is a HUGE part of it! Ask the Jets. Houston wasn't expected to be this competitive this quickly. Stroud has a lot to do with their immediate success.

Wilson in two years with Denver has been a failure. There isn't a nicer way to put it. He was traded for AND paid to be the answer in Denevr right away. They gave up the sun and the moon and the firmanent for Wilson and he bombed. They blamed Nathaniel Hackett for year one's disastrous performance then traded even more assets for a head coach and that bombed. Guys......it ain't the coaches. It ain't the players around him. It's Wilson.

Or maybe if his defense yelled RUN OR PASS like he wanted them to they'd be better. That's probably it.

The defense giving up 70 to the Dolphins and over 30 to the Commanders and Jets played a big role in the team being below.500

 

[General Malaise]

Pretty shady IMO - Russ has actually played well this year, not to mention the team actually has an outside shot of getting into the playoffs.

I agree. I think Russ has played well this year. Payton has made it a more conservative offense, and Russ has stayed within that framework. It’s basically been Sutton or bust. Jeudy has been terrible. No other real threats in the passing game. Disagree with this move.

If he played well, why is the team sub .500 with 2 games left?

Only one game below .500. By comparison, Stroud and the Texans are only one game over .500 (two if you take out the game he missed). Obviously QB is only part of it.

QB is a HUGE part of it! Ask the Jets. Houston wasn't expected to be this competitive this quickly. Stroud has a lot to do with their immediate success.

Wilson in two years with Denver has been a failure. There isn't a nicer way to put it. He was traded for AND paid to be the answer in Denevr right away. They gave up the sun and the moon and the firmanent for Wilson and he bombed. They blamed Nathaniel Hackett for year one's disastrous performance then traded even more assets for a head coach and that bombed. Guys......it ain't the coaches. It ain't the players around him. It's Wilson.

Or maybe if his defense yelled RUN OR PASS like he wanted them to they'd be better. That's probably it.

The defense giving up 70 to the Dolphins and over 30 to the Commanders and Jets played a big role in the team being below.500

I agree that the Broncos defense was laughable. Maybe bringing in an offensive coach wasn't the best idea? Maybe trading away valuable picks to get him was a bad idea? Maybe committing all the draft capital and money to Wilson wasn't the brightest maneuver? Lots of blame to go around but Wilson shoulders a lot of it. Bronco D wasn't awful last year. Wilson was.

 

[Deamon]

put me in the minority camp that thinks Russ played pretty well this year, not great but better than a lot of QBs. seems to me and i can be wrong that Payton never wanted Russ to work. I mean yes they won some games but could've let him air it out a bit and take some chances I mean not a ton to lose really. Also Russ really didn't have a whole lot to work with. Sutton was best wr by far, and not much else, running game was meh.

But they didn't trade away the farm and pay him a kings' ransom to play 'pretty well'. I'd argue he's played pretty average and the numbers bear that out. He was brought in to win and win right away. He's been a failure in that regard. His locker room antics are juvenile and his teammates think he's a dork. Denver has 3 WRs on the roster selected in the 1st or 2nd round. A running back taken in the 2nd round. They surrounded him with talent and yet, he did nothing with it.

Pretty well may be better than they can expect from their next starting QB. Between Peyton and Wilson, these were their QBs from 2016-2021:

1. Trevor Siemian
2. Paxton Lynch
3. Brock Osweiler
4. Case Keenum
5. Joe Flacco
6. Drew Lock
7. Brandon Allen
8. Jeff Driskel
9. Brett Rypien
10. Teddy Bridgewater

And now, Jarrett Stidham.



I'm not disagreeing that the Broncos made a bad trade and a much, much worse contract extension. Or that Wilson has been merely average or thereabouts this season, not great.

But who is walking through that door to do better? They aren't in position to get a top QB in this draft.

They should have kept #9 on the list

 

[Deamon]

Ok so I'm assuming they're going to make him inactive on gameday, right?

Do they even have another QB signed to the roster? Who will back up Stidham?

 

[General Malaise]

Ok so I'm assuming they're going to make him inactive on gameday, right?

Do they even have another QB signed to the roster? Who will back up Stidham?

No, ESPN said he's the backup. He can scream RUN or PASS from there all game long.

 

[Yenrub]

Pretty shady IMO - Russ has actually played well this year, not to mention the team actually has an outside shot of getting into the playoffs.

I agree. I think Russ has played well this year. Payton has made it a more conservative offense, and Russ has stayed within that framework. It’s basically been Sutton or bust. Jeudy has been terrible. No other real threats in the passing game. Disagree with this move.

If he played well, why is the team sub .500 with 2 games left?

Only one game below .500. By comparison, Stroud and the Texans are only one game over .500 (two if you take out the game he missed). Obviously QB is only part of it.

QB is a HUGE part of it! Ask the Jets. Houston wasn't expected to be this competitive this quickly. Stroud has a lot to do with their immediate success.

Wilson in two years with Denver has been a failure. There isn't a nicer way to put it. He was traded for AND paid to be the answer in Denevr right away. They gave up the sun and the moon and the firmanent for Wilson and he bombed. They blamed Nathaniel Hackett for year one's disastrous performance then traded even more assets for a head coach and that bombed. Guys......it ain't the coaches. It ain't the players around him. It's Wilson.

Or maybe if his defense yelled RUN OR PASS like he wanted them to they'd be better. That's probably it.

The defense giving up 70 to the Dolphins and over 30 to the Commanders and Jets played a big role in the team being below.500

I agree that the Broncos defense was laughable. Maybe bringing in an offensive coach wasn't the best idea? Maybe trading away valuable picks to get him was a bad idea? Maybe committing all the draft capital and money to Wilson wasn't the brightest maneuver? Lots of blame to go around but Wilson shoulders a lot of it. Bronco D wasn't awful last year. Wilson was.

Wilson wasn’t awful this year, the defense was.

 

[Deamon]

No, ESPN said he's the backup. He can scream RUN or PASS from there all game long.

Ah, I thought they were going to make him inactive. I can't imagine how pissed off he's gonna be on the sidelines this week. And how much the camera is on him.

 

[travdogg]

Pretty shady IMO - Russ has actually played well this year, not to mention the team actually has an outside shot of getting into the playoffs.

I agree. I think Russ has played well this year. Payton has made it a more conservative offense, and Russ has stayed within that framework. It’s basically been Sutton or bust. Jeudy has been terrible. No other real threats in the passing game. Disagree with this move.

If he played well, why is the team sub .500 with 2 games left?

Only one game below .500. By comparison, Stroud and the Texans are only one game over .500 (two if you take out the game he missed). Obviously QB is only part of it.

QB is a HUGE part of it! Ask the Jets. Houston wasn't expected to be this competitive this quickly. Stroud has a lot to do with their immediate success.

Wilson in two years with Denver has been a failure. There isn't a nicer way to put it. He was traded for AND paid to be the answer in Denevr right away. They gave up the sun and the moon and the firmanent for Wilson and he bombed. They blamed Nathaniel Hackett for year one's disastrous performance then traded even more assets for a head coach and that bombed. Guys......it ain't the coaches. It ain't the players around him. It's Wilson.

Or maybe if his defense yelled RUN OR PASS like he wanted them to they'd be better. That's probably it.

That's being pretty unfair to Wilson. Yes, QB is important (obviously) but let's not act like the Broncos are some loaded team that is being held back by QB play. This is a bad team, with very few quality players. The first half of the season they had a historically bad run defense.

Wilson is still a decent starter, sure that's not what Denver paid for, but he's been the least of their problems, unless their plan was for him to be Josh Allen and just singlehandedly win games for them, which is an awful plan regardless of who the QB is.

I get the move by Denver, I hate it, but I get it. I do think its much more likely whomever they get next year will likely fare worse than Wilson has. As an aside, I don't like the Houston comparison at all. Let's not normalize the season CJ Stroud has had as if its something that is reasonable to expect. He's been arguably the greatest rookie QB in NFL history.

I didn't bring Houston into this; that was an odd non sequitur but I wasn't the author of it.

A decent starter isn't what they paid for. They paid the price with picks and money for an elite starter. And we will disagree vehemently that he was "decent" last year. He sucked out loud last year. He was so bad his rookie HC got fired before he got a full season to coach. Decent my eye.

As I've said now multiple times, they have 1st and 2nd round picks at WR/RB. What more are they supposed to do? They threw draft picks away to get Wilson and then Payton and can't afford free agents because of the money they guaranteed to Wilson. It's a mess. A huge mess. A dysfunctional mess. Not fair to Wilson? Wilson is THE reason why they're in this miasma. It's not even debatable.

Never argued Wilson was good last year, he wasn't, but he very much bounced back this season.

The 1st /2nd round picks means nothing. Those guys aren't good. Sutton is a decent #2 WR, miscast as a #1, maybe he was a #1 before his knee issues, but that guy hasn't been there for years now. Jeudy is a slot WR, who has never really lived up to expectations. That was true before, during, and likely will be after Russ. Mims for whatever reason doesn't see the field much, his playing time being on par with guys like Brandon Johnson and Lil' Jordan Humphrey is a knock of Payton, not Wilson. Its possible he's stunk in practice I guess, but for a team starved for playmakers, its silly how little he's been used. I wonder how much they were counting on Tim Patrick? The answer was probably too much.

Same thing at RB, Javonte Williams clearly isn't the guy he was pre-injury, and Jaleel McLaughlin provides a spark pretty much every time he's on the field (even if maybe he's too small to be a 15+ touch guy) yet here's Payton sticking with what isn't working. Perine is a solid 3rd down RB, but that's it.

TE has two 3rd rounders, but Trautman has long been a mediocre #2 TE, and Dulcich hasn't been able to stay on the field.

I don't get the argument that Wilson is the reason they are in the mess they are in. Denver hasn't made the playoffs since Peyton Manning was their QB, its not like this was some great roster that was a QB away, Denver may have convinced themselves of that when they made the trade, but that's a front office mistake. Russell Wilson is a top-20 NFL QB in 2023, sure, they thought they were getting a top-5 guy, but he's been the least of their problems in 2023. They have as bad a defense as any team in the NFL, and an average offense, that Wilson has probably gotten close to the most out of, given the lack of talent, and confusing usage. The only position group Denver is probably good at is OL.

 

[Hooper31]

He can scream RUN or PASS from there all game long.

When you say stuff like this it doesn't help your argument in any way. It looks like you have some weird axe to grind with Wilson. Why do it?

 

[Deamon]

He can scream RUN or PASS from there all game long.

When you say stuff like this it doesn't help your argument in any way. It looks like you have some weird axe to grind with Wilson. Why do it?

Because it's a funny comment alluding to Wilson's ridiculously hilarious high-school strategy of getting all the players on the sideline to yell run or pass once the play started.

 

[Hooper31]

Lots of blame to go around but Wilson shoulders a lot of it.

Again, I don't get it. Russell Wilson wasn't consulted on any front office moves that Denver has made. I'm not going to be the one to defense Wilson the player, but he's always been a standup guy. From year one in Seattle he was the dude that was at Children's Hospital every Tuesday.

What gives? Why do you have it out for him?

 

[Deamon]

Lots of blame to go around but Wilson shoulders a lot of it.

Again, I don't get it. Russell Wilson wasn't consulted on any front office moves that Denver has made. I'm not going to be the one to defense Wilson the player, but he's always been a standup guy. From year one in Seattle he was the dude that was at Children's Hospital every Tuesday.

What gives? Why do you have it out for him?

Ciara? That you?

 

[Hooper31]

Lots of blame to go around but Wilson shoulders a lot of it.

Again, I don't get it. Russell Wilson wasn't consulted on any front office moves that Denver has made. I'm not going to be the one to defense Wilson the player, but he's always been a standup guy. From year one in Seattle he was the dude that was at Children's Hospital every Tuesday.

What gives? Why do you have it out for him?

Ciara? That you?

I'm a Seattle fan. Since the 70s. Yeah, I'm that old. Was happy to have Wilson for ten years. Glad they made the trade and got great compensation for him.

Seriously now, Wilson is a solid human. He deserves a lot more respect for who he is. Wins, losses, touchdowns, and interceptions are not the mark of a man. Perhaps I ask to much of random guys on the InterGoogle. You want to trash the dude and have a laugh at his expense? It says a lot more about who you are and not him.

Wilson had some solid years in Seattle. Can he regain that form? Maybe. I think the right mix of scheme and personnel would be required, but I wouldn't bet on it. I wish him well.

 

[Bri]

He was drafted by the Rockies many years ago....

 

[Mitchie]

put me in the minority camp that thinks Russ played pretty well this year, not great but better than a lot of QBs. seems to me and i can be wrong that Payton never wanted Russ to work. I mean yes they won some games but could've let him air it out a bit and take some chances I mean not a ton to lose really. Also Russ really didn't have a whole lot to work with. Sutton was best wr by far, and not much else, running game was meh.

But they didn't trade away the farm and pay him a kings' ransom to play 'pretty well'. I'd argue he's played pretty average and the numbers bear that out. He was brought in to win and win right away. He's been a failure in that regard. His locker room antics are juvenile and his teammates think he's a dork. Denver has 3 WRs on the roster selected in the 1st or 2nd round. A running back taken in the 2nd round. They surrounded him with talent and yet, he did nothing with it.

the round the players were drafted is about as relevant as what i had for dinner, Jeudy is not very good, Javonte has been average, maybe he'll be better next year further out from his injury but who knows, if not the worst group of offensive weapons can't see how they're not bottom 3. hard to know for sure what his teammates think, maybe you're right but these things can't also get overblown. Sutton showed support for him earlier this year for one.

So they blew the draft picks? Huh. That's what dysfunctional teams do I guess.

I don't know on that. Drafting is really hard. Even teams who do it mostly well like San Francisco still draft a Trey Lance. I make a distinction between dysfunctional and teams that don't draft well.

I know drafting is hard and so does Denver. They haven't drafted a good QB since Elway.

My original point was that Denver used 4 picks in the first two rounds on skill players so the observation that he didn't have much to work with is laughable.

Dysfunctional teams DO get desperate and make lousy trades which is precisely what happened to Denver. They haven't been able to find a QB through the draft so they traded the world for one they thought was a winner. Didn't work. And now they're really hooped with dead cap money, lost draft picks and a coach who makes way too much money to miss the playoffs.

Dysfunction thy name is Denver.

Please list the teams that have a worse group of offensive weapons. I'll bet you can't get to 3.

Panthers, Cardinals and Chiefs. That was easy.

But the Chiefs have multiple first and second round picks. I am so confused.

 

[Ghost Rider]

This hot take going on that the Broncos mess is all Wilson's fault is quite LOL. No, he has not been the solution, but the organization is a disaster on many levels. He sucked last year because Hackett SUCKED. It's not a coincidence that the only subpar Wilson has ever had in the NFL is under Hackett. Even in 2021 and 2023, seasons that don't touch his best ones, he was good both years.

The Broncos defense this year is 30th in yards allowed and 29th in points allowed. I guess that is somehow the QB's fault. You can't make this stuff up.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

The Broncos defense this year is 30th in yards allowed and 29th in points allowed. I guess that is somehow the QB's fault. You can't make this stuff up.

Broncos had a game earlier in the year where they scored 20 points and still lost by 50.

 

[massraider]

Think of how unpopular he must be, that the team was willing to eat an 80 mill cap hit.

 

[Ghost Rider]

The Broncos defense this year is 30th in yards allowed and 29th in points allowed. I guess that is somehow the QB's fault. You can't make this stuff up.

Broncos had a game earlier in the year where they scored 20 points and still lost by 50.

I am sure that was Russ' fault for failing to inspire the defense to play well that day.

 

[zamboni]

The Broncos defense this year is 30th in yards allowed and 29th in points allowed. I guess that is somehow the QB's fault. You can't make this stuff up.

Broncos had a game earlier in the year where they scored 20 points and still lost by 50.

I am sure that was Russ' fault for failing to inspire the defense to play well that day.

There’s enough blame to go all around, including Payton himself, but as he says, it’s easier to get rid of the uber-overpriced QB than gut the team, and this is a starting point.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Seems like some folks have forgotten who Russ really is. The dude whose defensive teammates didn’t respect him - who sniffed out that the guy isn’t a leader. The dude whose star RB and beloved heart & soul of the franchise resented him. The dude who lobbied the head coach to insert him as the de facto alpha on a defensive star-studded team. The dude who once claimed that magic water cured his concussion. The dude whose own teammate so had his “leader’s” back that he allegedly hooked up with his then wife. The dude who joined a new team and demanded a separate locker room from the rest of his teammates.

Yeah, zero idea why anyone would pin any of this failure on King Russ.

Edit to add: Wisconsin Badger fan who was pre-disposed to root for Russ in the NFL

 

[CGRdrJoe]

Seems like some folks have forgotten who Russ really is. The dude whose defensive teammates didn’t respect him - who sniffed out that the guy isn’t a leader. The dude whose star RB and beloved heart & soul of the franchise resented him. The dude who lobbied the head coach to insert him as the de facto alpha on a defensive star-studded team. The dude who once claimed that magic water cured his concussion. The dude whose own teammate so had his “leader’s” back that he allegedly hooked up with his then wife. The dude who joined a new team and demanded a separate locker room from the rest of his teammates.

Yeah, zero idea why anyone would pin any of this failure on King Russ.

Edit to add: Wisconsin Badger fan who was pre-disposed to root for Russ in the NFL

none of this matters, what matters is what the player does on the field and this year Russ has a qbr that is better than Mahomes. This benching is about money and Payton’s ego of wanting to bring in his guys for the broncos, this strategy worked out well for the raiders (my team)

 

[Boston]

35 year-old average QB with a very bad contract and not brought in by the current regime...no need to over-think this one.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Seems like some folks have forgotten who Russ really is. The dude whose defensive teammates didn’t respect him - who sniffed out that the guy isn’t a leader. The dude whose star RB and beloved heart & soul of the franchise resented him. The dude who lobbied the head coach to insert him as the de facto alpha on a defensive star-studded team. The dude who once claimed that magic water cured his concussion. The dude whose own teammate so had his “leader’s” back that he allegedly hooked up with his then wife. The dude who joined a new team and demanded a separate locker room from the rest of his teammates.

Yeah, zero idea why anyone would pin any of this failure on King Russ.

Edit to add: Wisconsin Badger fan who was pre-disposed to root for Russ in the NFL

none of this matters, what matters is what the player does on the field and this year Russ has a qbr that is better than Mahomes. This benching is about money and Payton’s ego of wanting to bring in his guys for the broncos, this strategy worked out well for the raiders (my team)

Of course it matters. Teams want a QB who is a leader - and Russ isn’t. He’s a fraud. And his all-pro teammates in Seattle figured it out years ago.

 

[CGRdrJoe]

Seems like some folks have forgotten who Russ really is. The dude whose defensive teammates didn’t respect him - who sniffed out that the guy isn’t a leader. The dude whose star RB and beloved heart & soul of the franchise resented him. The dude who lobbied the head coach to insert him as the de facto alpha on a defensive star-studded team. The dude who once claimed that magic water cured his concussion. The dude whose own teammate so had his “leader’s” back that he allegedly hooked up with his then wife. The dude who joined a new team and demanded a separate locker room from the rest of his teammates.

Yeah, zero idea why anyone would pin any of this failure on King Russ.

Edit to add: Wisconsin Badger fan who was pre-disposed to root for Russ in the NFL

none of this matters, what matters is what the player does on the field and this year Russ has a qbr that is better than Mahomes. This benching is about money and Payton’s ego of wanting to bring in his guys for the broncos, this strategy worked out well for the raiders (my team)

Of course it matters. Teams want a QB who is a leader - and Russ isn’t. He’s a fraud. And his all-pro teammates in Seattle figured it out years ago.

2 very vocal players have talked **** and continue to do so because they have a platform. Lockett and Metcalf both defended him, are those guys not all-pro teammates?

 

[General Malaise]

He can scream RUN or PASS from there all game long.

When you say stuff like this it doesn't help your argument in any way. It looks like you have some weird axe to grind with Wilson. Why do it?

Because it's weird? Because he's weird? Because professional football players usually don't do this sort of junior high act? If he's going to do it I'm certainly within my rights to be critical of it.

 

[UncleZen]

Is there any chance Justin fields fits Payton’s plans?

I personally don't think Sean Payton is creative enough to use Justin Fields.

Our Cecil Lammey is a Denver Insider and he describes Wilson as a "Chaos QB" meaning he thrives on improvisation. Payton is much more a structured QB guy it seems. I think he's massively talented as a coach and more than creative enough. I just don't think it's the type of QB that seems to thrive in his systems.

Then why not design a system to take advantage of the QB they have a ton of money invested in?

 

[General Malaise]

Lots of blame to go around but Wilson shoulders a lot of it.

Again, I don't get it. Russell Wilson wasn't consulted on any front office moves that Denver has made. I'm not going to be the one to defense Wilson the player, but he's always been a standup guy. From year one in Seattle he was the dude that was at Children's Hospital every Tuesday.

What gives? Why do you have it out for him?

I'm not suggesting he's a BAD guy, but I don't think he's lived up to what Denver paid to get him. Saying he shoulders blame for the lack of success Denver has had the last two years isn't suggesting that I have it out for him, it's an observation. Was he better this year than last? Yes, but that's a low bar as he was just awful. I don't think there's any other way to describe his first year in Denver, it was puzzling how bad he was. It's a results oriented business and if they miss the playoffs again in the 2nd year of his deal it's hard to say anything great about the move for either party.

 

[BroncosFan07]

The defense has its weaknesses and their share of horrible games however Russ is a below average QB with a horrible contract. Cutting him is the right thing. If you think Russ was a good QB this year, then you either didn’t watch many games or are a Raiders fan. The offense was painful to watch and Russ’ limitations were evident. Defense coordinators are smart and can easily scheme to expose Russ. You can’t go far in the NfL by having to limit your offense by hiding the QBs weaknesses. The team is going nowhere with him and his contract so the right thing to do is move on. This is coming from a big Russ fan that wishes it wasn’t true.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Is there any chance Justin fields fits Payton’s plans?

I personally don't think Sean Payton is creative enough to use Justin Fields.

Our Cecil Lammey is a Denver Insider and he describes Wilson as a "Chaos QB" meaning he thrives on improvisation. Payton is much more a structured QB guy it seems. I think he's massively talented as a coach and more than creative enough. I just don't think it's the type of QB that seems to thrive in his systems.

Then why not design a system to take advantage of the QB they have a ton of money invested in?

I'm assuming they tried. As well as Russell trying to play more within the system. Not all systems succeed and I think that's what we're mostly seeing here.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Seems like some folks have forgotten who Russ really is. The dude whose defensive teammates didn’t respect him - who sniffed out that the guy isn’t a leader. The dude whose star RB and beloved heart & soul of the franchise resented him. The dude who lobbied the head coach to insert him as the de facto alpha on a defensive star-studded team. The dude who once claimed that magic water cured his concussion. The dude whose own teammate so had his “leader’s” back that he allegedly hooked up with his then wife. The dude who joined a new team and demanded a separate locker room from the rest of his teammates.

Yeah, zero idea why anyone would pin any of this failure on King Russ.

Edit to add: Wisconsin Badger fan who was pre-disposed to root for Russ in the NFL

none of this matters, what matters is what the player does on the field and this year Russ has a qbr that is better than Mahomes. This benching is about money and Payton’s ego of wanting to bring in his guys for the broncos, this strategy worked out well for the raiders (my team)

Of course it matters. Teams want a QB who is a leader - and Russ isn’t. He’s a fraud. And his all-pro teammates in Seattle figured it out years ago.

2 very vocal players have talked **** and continue to do so because they have a platform. Lockett and Metcalf both defended him, are those guys not all-pro teammates?

Sounds like Russ was a great leader.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/10/04/marshawn-lynch-russell-wilson-seattle-seahawks-awkward-phone-call-story

 

[Drake Hater]

Who cares if he's a leader or not outside of homer fans? Who cares if he's a cornball or if past teammates are split in opinions on him?

The guy is still streamable in redraft leagues and with QB injuries he could be relevant for a few more seasons if he lands in the right spot.

 

[JohnnyU]

Is there any chance Justin fields fits Payton’s plans?

I personally don't think Sean Payton is creative enough to use Justin Fields.

Our Cecil Lammey is a Denver Insider and he describes Wilson as a "Chaos QB" meaning he thrives on improvisation. Payton is much more a structured QB guy it seems. I think he's massively talented as a coach and more than creative enough. I just don't think it's the type of QB that seems to thrive in his systems.

Then why not design a system to take advantage of the QB they have a ton of money invested in?

I'm assuming they tried. As well as Russell trying to play more within the system. Not all systems succeed and I think that's what we're mostly seeing here.

Great coaches adjust their coaching to fit their players they do have, not the other way around. As you obtain players to fit the system you want to play you can adjust the system.

 

[Yenrub]

Seems like some folks have forgotten who Russ really is. The dude whose defensive teammates didn’t respect him - who sniffed out that the guy isn’t a leader. The dude whose star RB and beloved heart & soul of the franchise resented him. The dude who lobbied the head coach to insert him as the de facto alpha on a defensive star-studded team. The dude who once claimed that magic water cured his concussion. The dude whose own teammate so had his “leader’s” back that he allegedly hooked up with his then wife. The dude who joined a new team and demanded a separate locker room from the rest of his teammates.

Yeah, zero idea why anyone would pin any of this failure on King Russ.

Edit to add: Wisconsin Badger fan who was pre-disposed to root for Russ in the NFL

I haven’t seen anyone saying Russ is not responsible for SOME of the failure.
I have however seen people (here and in the media) trying to put ALL the responsibility on Russ

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Seems like some folks have forgotten who Russ really is. The dude whose defensive teammates didn’t respect him - who sniffed out that the guy isn’t a leader. The dude whose star RB and beloved heart & soul of the franchise resented him. The dude who lobbied the head coach to insert him as the de facto alpha on a defensive star-studded team. The dude who once claimed that magic water cured his concussion. The dude whose own teammate so had his “leader’s” back that he allegedly hooked up with his then wife. The dude who joined a new team and demanded a separate locker room from the rest of his teammates.

Yeah, zero idea why anyone would pin any of this failure on King Russ.

Edit to add: Wisconsin Badger fan who was pre-disposed to root for Russ in the NFL

I haven’t seen anyone saying Russ is not responsible for SOME of the failure.
I have however seen people (here and in the media) trying to put ALL the responsibility on Russ

I haven’t seen anyone pinning it all on Russ. That would be odd given how horrific the defense has been this year.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

I think it's just a matter of a new coach with a big ego wanting to do things his way. He inherited Wilson, and wants something different. He's building an offensive scheme, and he wants to build players around it; not the other way around.

The ONLY way that scenario worked is if they won a ton of games. They didn't. The coach wins out in the end. I think that's all there is to this situation. It's nobody's fault but a bad fit.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Curious to see if the GM gets fired….

 

[Courtjester]

As a lifelong Denver fan, this angers me to no end. If KC won last week, then I would get it.The whole let's see what we have for next year since this year is lost kind of mantra would apply, but Denver is legit another bad KC game from possibly getting in the playoffs. So the idea is the team wants to protect itself from financial problems by this move? Okay, multi-billionaires. tell that to the 60k that are packing the stadium on Sunday. Since you are going to put a 2nd string team out there, are you going to make parking free? Are you going to charge 1/2 price for concessions or merch at the team store?

Russ is not the only reason this team has under-performed this year. Week one--Lutz misses an extra point and then a FG that ultimately costs the team the game in a one point loss. Then the team begins the fabulous 4-5 game stretch where the historically bad defense gives up record setting yards and points--including games where Denver's offense put up 33. 20 and 21 points respectfully. Then we have the debacle last week where Mims fumbles the return and gifts NE 7 points. Throw in the fact, Denver's o-line, which was rebuilt in the off-season, consistently misses assignments, takes stupid penalties and gives Russ zero time to thrown and yet somehow Denver has willed itself to a 6-3 record over the last 9 games and is still in the hunt. Don't get me wrong, there have been many times where Russ has screwed up his reads and missed wide-open guys and has fumbled the ball way too many times.

If Denver misses the playoffs, then it needs to be called a team failure, which is a direct reflection of the coaching staff. The best analogy I can come up with for Payton is a guy marrying a girl who has a child and then telling her he can't stand to be around children. He took this job knowing what kind of QB that Wilson was and instead of adapting the play-calling to Wilson's game, he tried to install Drew Brees game. Then you have the team deciding to cut KJ last week, who was a team captain and a major presence in the locker room. I get Locke has played well, but I can guarantee that didn't sit well with the players.

Sorry for the long rant, but I can't remember another time in my 50+ years of being a Bronco fan that I want this team to lose the next two games badly. They deserve it for how mismanaged they have handled things and now we as the fans, are the ones that have to sit through it over the next 3-5 years as this team rebuilds.

 

[Boston]

This situation is why I was surprised Payton took the Denver job...it was pretty apparent that Wilson was an albatross for this team and it did not matter who the HC was...it was not going to end well with that foolish contract.

 

[massraider]

Who cares if he's a leader or not outside of homer fans? Who cares if he's a cornball or if past teammates are split in opinions on him?

The guy is still streamable in redraft leagues and with QB injuries he could be relevant for a few more seasons if he lands in the right spot.

His fantasy prospects isn't why the thread was bumped.

But from a fantasy perspective strictly, it matters in terms of Wilson getting a job in the off-season. What coaches want to pin their job to him?

I agree with everyone who says the Broncos are a mess.

And I agree with everyone who says Wilson is a mistake.

Both can be true.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

This situation is why I was surprised Payton took the Denver job...it was pretty apparent that Wilson was an albatross for this team and it did not matter who the HC was...it was not going to end well with that foolish contract.

Because Payton wanted full control and has a huge ego

 

[Gr00vus]

No, ESPN said he's the backup. He can scream RUN or PASS from there all game long.

Ah, I thought they were going to make him inactive. I can't imagine how pissed off he's gonna be on the sidelines this week. And how much the camera is on him.

That and they'd run the risk of having to put him in the game if Stidham gets knocked out. Seems like they should grab some retread backup off the street to be QB2 the rest of the year if their goal is really to avoid Wilson getting hurt, assuming they don't care about winning.

This whole situation is really weird. I don't really know who looks worse here, Broncos management or Payton.

 

[Snotbubbles]

This situation is why I was surprised Payton took the Denver job...it was pretty apparent that Wilson was an albatross for this team and it did not matter who the HC was...it was not going to end well with that foolish contract.

And yet, I bet there is some team out there that would trade for Wilson.

 

[Drake Hater]

But from a fantasy perspective strictly, it matters in terms of Wilson getting a job in the off-season. What coaches want to pin their job to him?

No doubt he gets offers. But they'll be for less money than he's accustomed to. It'll be up to him as to how much and where.

 

[tangfoot]

But from a fantasy perspective strictly, it matters in terms of Wilson getting a job in the off-season. What coaches want to pin their job to him?

No doubt he gets offers. But they'll be for less money than he's accustomed to. It'll be up to him as to how much and where.

Isn't Denver on the hook for the entirety of his 2024 salary already? He can go somewhere and play for league minimum just to piss them off further.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

This situation is why I was surprised Payton took the Denver job...it was pretty apparent that Wilson was an albatross for this team and it did not matter who the HC was...it was not going to end well with that foolish contract.

And yet, I bet there is some team out there that would trade for Wilson.

Not if they know he’s going to be cut

 

[Anarchy99]

35 year-old average QB with a very bad contract and not brought in by the current regime...no need to over-think this one.

Let me know what you consider average, but here are some of WIlson's rankings from this season:

- 1st in 4th quarter comebacks
- T-1st in game winning drives
- 4th in TD percentage
- T-6 in passing + rushing TD combined
- T-6th in passing TD
- 7th in passer rating
- 7th in QB rushing yards
- 10th in completion percentage
- 10th in AY/A
- 12th in interception percentage

By comparison, here are the same rankings for Mahomes:
- T-36th in 4th quarter comebacks (with 0)
- T-23rd in game winning drives
- 12th in TD percentage
- 9th in passing + rushing TD combined
- T-6th in passing TD
- 15th in passer rating
- 6th in rushing yards
- 7th in completion percentage
- 19th in AY/A
- 22nd in interception percentage

Do I think Wilson is better than Mahomes? Of course not. But Wilson is getting benched when his individual numbers are better this year than Mahomes's numbers are in a lot of categories. Mahomes has more passing yardage because he's thrown 121 more passes than Wilson has. I get it, there's more to playing QB than just putting up numbers, but IMO, I think WIlson has performed better than average. And yes, there are likely other QB categories where Wilson ranks lower. Bottom line, on the surface, it appears Wilson and the Broncos would rank higher in counting stats in passing if they threw the ball more (they rank 28th in attempts). Is that on Wilson?

 

[menobrown]

A few random thoughts from someone with no horse in this race:

Remember prior to the season that Wilson was traded he had a wish list of teams and wanting to go to the Saints to play with Payton was on his list? He also had the Raiders and Bears among his 4 teams of interst. Meanwhile, multiple credible reports say the Eagles wanted to trade for him when Seattle did make him available but Wilson nixed it. So one thing I got to say for Russ is if he wants to continue playing I hope he does a better job of picking out his preferred destinations, obviously he can't be to picky this time either.

The Browns trade/extension is still is worse to me right now though in theory Watson still has a chance to turn it around so I'm not going to label this as the worst trade in history, yet.

I thought Wilson was solid this year, not great but solid. Absolutely think the benching is related to the injury guarantees and him being the backup is not moving me off that position. Stidham might very well provide a "spark" this week like he did his first week starting in place in Carr last year, won't change my opinion.

On one hand I commend Wilson for his professionalism but wish he'd show more emotion.

I think Payton has been scapegoating him all year and has treated him with lack of class and not shown the same respect and professionalism that Wilson has exhibited. I'll be pulling for him to do well if he continues.

Wilsons a different dude for sure. Probabably not "one of the guys" or a natural born leader with the things he says though possibly with things he does(actions). Extremely protective of his image and very measured with the things he says and does publicly. Robotic at times, a lot of the time. But whatever his intentions or motivations he does a lot of good stuff off the field and I've never heard anyone say he's a bad guy or one who does not work hard at his craft and he's played a ton of winning football in his career. I know sports can make people emotional but I find it a little odd that some people seem to want to do a personal take down of him because he failed to live up to the trade compensation or the extension.

 

[General Malaise]

I think he ends up being Joe Flacco 2.0. Teams that need a band-aid QB will give him a holler. 35 and the magic he had in his legs to extend plays, scramble out of trouble and run when needed are gone. That's a big part of what made him so magical. And he was - prime Russ was a marvel to watch but Father Time is undefeated (well, except for that Brady guy) and there's a bumper crop of young, inexpensive rookie QBs coming to the NFL this year and next (Caleb, Maye, Daniels......Nix, Penix in '24 then Sanders, Ewers, Ward in '25) so where are the openings going to be for Wilson?

And Joe Flacco has been a godsend for Cleveland. Maybe Wilson helps save a season for a team in need next year and beyond. But I think the days of Russell Wilson being an elite or even a very good QB are over.