Question about Andre Brown (1 Viewer)

[JohnnyU]

I'm unaware of any running back in NFL history that has come back successfully from a torn Achilles' tendon. Do you know of a success story?

 

[Brewzers]

I'm unaware of any running back in NFL history that has come back successfully from a torn Achilles' tendon. Do you know of a success story?

Edgar Bennett seems to be the closest compare, except he was 28 when he was injured. http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2010/03...andre_brow.html10:24 a.m. UPDATE Longtime MG blog reader Tom E. has checked in via e-mail with Edgar Bennett. Good work as always by Tom. Bennett's run with the Packers ended with a torn Achilles in the '97 preseason. He returned to action with the Bears in '98 and had a decent, but not great, season with 820 total yards.

 

[identikit]

I can't recall one that has recovered well.

Neither can this guy:

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2010/03...andre_brow.html

 

[JohnnyU]

I can't recall one that has recovered well.

Neither can this guy:

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2010/03...andre_brow.html

Thanks for providing that link. Looks like Mr. Brown has his work cut out for him.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I don't recall a promising RB ever having the same injury. So, I'd be inclined to start comparing other positions outside or RB.

I haven't done the research but you'd have to bet there is some president out there.

Can you name any other young promising players that had a career ending achilles injury? RB's or otherwise?

Also, I'd consider the advancement in medicine over the last 10 years. Once it was considered career ending for a player to have ACL injuries, now it's more like a minor setback.

 

[Warhogs]

I'm not sure how common a torn achilles is in the NFL but if I remember correctly Dominique Wilkins did pretty well after tearing his and he was toward the end of his career when it happened.

 

[The Man With No Name]

I don't recall a promising RB ever having the same injury. So, I'd be inclined to start comparing other positions outside or RB.I haven't done the research but you'd have to bet there is some president out there.Can you name any other young promising players that had a career ending achilles injury? RB's or otherwise?

Not real young, but linebacker Jamir Miller tore his at age 28 and never played again. He was coming off a pro bowl season of 99 tackles, 13 sacks and 1 int.

 

[Steed]

Takeo Spikes tore his in 2005 and he's still playing today, although not at a very high level.

 

[Raider Nation]

I'm unaware of any running back in NFL history that has come back successfully from a torn Achilles' tendon.

Do not ever question the toughness of ANDRE THE GIANT!

 

[kurtrudder]

I'm pretty sure WR Ronald Curry tore his achilles tendon twice and he made it back.

 

[baconisgood]

I don't recall a promising RB ever having the same injury. So, I'd be inclined to start comparing other positions outside or RB.I haven't done the research but you'd have to bet there is some president out there.Can you name any other young promising players that had a career ending achilles injury? RB's or otherwise?

Not real young, but linebacker Jamir Miller tore his at age 28 and never played again. He was coming off a pro bowl season of 99 tackles, 13 sacks and 1 int.

That injury was a killer to Browns fans.

 

[Boone22]

As a Brown Dynasty owner, it doesn't look good...

http://www.biocompare.com/News/NewsStory/3...-Sidelined.html

 

[Couch Potato]

As a Brown Dynasty owner, it doesn't look good...

http://www.biocompare.com/News/NewsStory/3...-Sidelined.html

From the article:Offensively, quarterbacks had a power rating averaging 108 in the 3 seasons prior to their injuries. In the 3 seasons following their return, they averaged a power rating of 62. There was a net decrease in power ratings of 42.6%. Wide receivers, running backs, and tights ends also witnessed an average decrease in their power ratings over 3 years by 88%, 83%, and 78%, espectively. Linebackers experienced the greatest drop in power ratings, followed by cornerbacks, defensive tackles, and defensive ends. The average decrease over 3 years was 95%, 87%, 64%, and 55%, respectively. When evaluating power ratings per game played, offensively, running backs had the most significant drop in power ratings, by 83%. They were followed by wide receivers, tight ends, and quarterbacks, whose power ratings percentage decrease was 77%, 73%, and 50%, respectively (Figure 2). Finally, the percentage decrease in power ratings per game dropped in the same order as power ratings per season for the defensive players.

.........

On the plus side, Brown is quite a bit younger than the average age of the 31 players in the study. On the minus side it appears RBs are affected the most, which makes sense because leg drive is what being a RB is all about. Also a negative is the fact that Brown was just a 4th rounder before the injury, with an uphill climb already to ever becoming a starter.

With the injury, while it may be premature to write him off completely, I'd say he's enough of a long shot now that except in very deep leagues he's probably a poor use of a roster spot. I would imagine there are sleeper candidates available with a better chance at fantasy relevancy than Brown. I have him rostered in one of my 20-man leagues where RB is particularly valuable but don't think I'll continue to do so after reading this study.

 

[JohnnyU]

As a Brown Dynasty owner, it doesn't look good...

http://www.biocompare.com/News/NewsStory/3...-Sidelined.html

First, great find on the article.

The study found that Achilles tendon ruptures can be career-altering injuries. Nearly 36% of players who sustained this injury never returned to play in the NFL and the ones who were able to return were never able to return to their pre-injury levels of play.

Yep, that doesn't bode well for Brown.

 

[Bri]

The studies I see are all-time or imply that they're over a lengthy period. Medical advancements can dramatically alter those success rates; the point of the advancements.

I have zero knowledge of achilles advancements, I am just leery of the aforementioned time range. No one came back from ACL tears in the 80s.

Most importantly, I have not witnessed this extremely negative concern from the Giants- not from those I know, not in reading, radio or conversation. If the meidcal history is a point to consider then similarly should be the lack of (almost) fear displayed by the Giants about this.

"Rookie's career is already over" would have been a dramatic headline. That didn't happen, gotta wonder why if all the aforementioned studies were true.

 

[JohnnyU]

The studies I see are all-time or imply that they're over a lengthy period. Medical advancements can dramatically alter those success rates; the point of the advancements.I have zero knowledge of achilles advancements, I am just leery of the aforementioned time range. No one came back from ACL tears in the 80s.Most importantly, I have not witnessed this extremely negative concern from the Giants- not from those I know, not in reading, radio or conversation. If the meidcal history is a point to consider then similarly should be the lack of (almost) fear displayed by the Giants about this."Rookie's career is already over" would have been a dramatic headline. That didn't happen, gotta wonder why if all the aforementioned studies were true.

.....probably becasue coming back isn't the same as REALLY COMING BACK.

 

[Bri]

Googling Andre shows "rupture" and others say "tear."

Can someone clarify which it is and what the distinction is here?

 

[Couch Potato]

The studies I see are all-time or imply that they're over a lengthy period. Medical advancements can dramatically alter those success rates; the point of the advancements.I have zero knowledge of achilles advancements, I am just leery of the aforementioned time range. No one came back from ACL tears in the 80s.Most importantly, I have not witnessed this extremely negative concern from the Giants- not from those I know, not in reading, radio or conversation. If the meidcal history is a point to consider then similarly should be the lack of (almost) fear displayed by the Giants about this."Rookie's career is already over" would have been a dramatic headline. That didn't happen, gotta wonder why if all the aforementioned studies were true.

The study cited above was written in late 2009, and analyzed only players who ruptured their achilles from 1997 - 2002. Recent study group, not "all time."

 

[Bri]

UWO protocol study shows 3 in 145 re-ruptured achilles.

Previous I can find is nearly 60%.

There's gotta be a significant advancement medically evidenced by those stats

 

[Bri]

The studies I see are all-time or imply that they're over a lengthy period. Medical advancements can dramatically alter those success rates; the point of the advancements.I have zero knowledge of achilles advancements, I am just leery of the aforementioned time range. No one came back from ACL tears in the 80s.Most importantly, I have not witnessed this extremely negative concern from the Giants- not from those I know, not in reading, radio or conversation. If the meidcal history is a point to consider then similarly should be the lack of (almost) fear displayed by the Giants about this."Rookie's career is already over" would have been a dramatic headline. That didn't happen, gotta wonder why if all the aforementioned studies were true.

The study cited above was written in late 2009, and analyzed only players who ruptured their achilles from 1997 - 2002. Recent study group, not "all time."

ThanksThat's good it's more current. Still important to note it was 8 years ago.I don't have the time today necessary to research this. Googling, though, it's interesting how much attention Achilles tendons have in the medical community. Pick a term any term and google it, total results is astonishing.In just 5-10 minutes, I've read enough to reaffirm my opinion that Andre could be OK. (note could not the more definitive-will)I can't imagine why anyone in dynasty would hold onto him until now and then drop him. You waited this long, wait to see how he does in camp. It seems like dropping him last summer was the less headache route but if you've got him....gotta wait this out.

 

[JohnnyU]

UWO protocol study shows 3 in 145 re-ruptured achilles.

Previous I can find is nearly 60%.

There's gotta be a significant advancement medically evidenced by those stats

Again, being able to come back is one thing, but coming back and being effective is quite another. A running back has to be able to push off with power and from the sounds of it, that just isn't happening with those having this kind of injury. Studies that show percentages for re-ruptures isn't the point. All that's important to me is whether they can return to what they were before the injury. As far as I know no one has ever been able to come back to what they were prior to this type of injury.

 

[Bri]

UWO protocol study shows 3 in 145 re-ruptured achilles.

Previous I can find is nearly 60%.

There's gotta be a significant advancement medically evidenced by those stats

Again, being able to come back is one thing, but coming back and being effective is quite another. A running back has to be able to push off with power and from the sounds of it, that just isn't happening with those having this kind of injury. Studies that show percentages for re-ruptures isn't the point. All that's important to me is whether they can return to what they were before the injury. As far as I know no one has ever been able to come back to what they were prior to this type of injury.

short of an amputation, I don't feel anything is definitively career ending anymore. I did some research on Doc Andrews a few months back, which led me to some other incredible docs and...they're almost magical geniuses.The implied tone that Andre is done is too harsh, too extreme for me to support.

I also believe money brings better docs most of the general public isn't privileged enough to utilize their services.

I do realize that I may have an overly high opinion of surgeons after researching Doc Andrews

 

[identikit]

UWO protocol study shows 3 in 145 re-ruptured achilles.

Previous I can find is nearly 60%.

There's gotta be a significant advancement medically evidenced by those stats

Again, being able to come back is one thing, but coming back and being effective is quite another. A running back has to be able to push off with power and from the sounds of it, that just isn't happening with those having this kind of injury. Studies that show percentages for re-ruptures isn't the point. All that's important to me is whether they can return to what they were before the injury. As far as I know no one has ever been able to come back to what they were prior to this type of injury.

Exactly.IF he recovered 100%, what would it mean? A decent prospect who may/may not be able to hang in the NFL. Never mind his value to FF owners.

That being said, it wouldn't be a bad thought (if you have the space) to at least see what TC and the preseason says about his future.

 

[Boone22]

I can't imagine why anyone in dynasty would hold onto him until now and then drop him. You waited this long, wait to see how he does in camp. It seems like dropping him last summer was the less headache route but if you've got him....gotta wait this out.

I agree. I just posted the article because I found it with a quick Google search and thought it was relevant to the conversation. As a Brown Dynasty owner, I see no reason to drop him now. I'll wait and see what happens in camp and see what kind of reviews he's getting. Then I'll look at my roster and make a decision at that point.

 

[baconisgood]

The studies I see are all-time or imply that they're over a lengthy period. Medical advancements can dramatically alter those success rates; the point of the advancements.I have zero knowledge of achilles advancements, I am just leery of the aforementioned time range. No one came back from ACL tears in the 80s.Most importantly, I have not witnessed this extremely negative concern from the Giants- not from those I know, not in reading, radio or conversation. If the meidcal history is a point to consider then similarly should be the lack of (almost) fear displayed by the Giants about this."Rookie's career is already over" would have been a dramatic headline. That didn't happen, gotta wonder why if all the aforementioned studies were true.

The study cited above was written in late 2009, and analyzed only players who ruptured their achilles from 1997 - 2002. Recent study group, not "all time."

ThanksThat's good it's more current. Still important to note it was 8 years ago.I don't have the time today necessary to research this. Googling, though, it's interesting how much attention Achilles tendons have in the medical community. Pick a term any term and google it, total results is astonishing.In just 5-10 minutes, I've read enough to reaffirm my opinion that Andre could be OK. (note could not the more definitive-will)I can't imagine why anyone in dynasty would hold onto him until now and then drop him. You waited this long, wait to see how he does in camp. It seems like dropping him last summer was the less headache route but if you've got him....gotta wait this out.

Holding onto him now won't turn a bad decision last year into a good one. If increasing your knowledge about a specific injury makes you think he is less likely to contribute then having already held onto him doesn't change that.

 

[Couch Potato]

I can't imagine why anyone in dynasty would hold onto him until now and then drop him. You waited this long, wait to see how he does in camp.

Well, because there's an upcoming rookie draft in 3 weeks, I'll be dropping three players, and choices have to be made. And I've held him about 2 months, adding him when a previous owner dumped him (he probably saw this study before I did).

 

[finnref]

Return of Brown to a high degree of efficiency must be guarded. One third of RBs never come back. Those who do have 50% decrease in power rankings. See article:

http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/orthopaedics/ort.../06achilles.pdf

 

[Couch Potato]

Return of Brown to a high degree of efficiency must be guarded. One third of RBs never come back. Those who do have 50% decrease in power rankings. See article:

http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/orthopaedics/ort.../06achilles.pdf

Yes, that's the same study the other article was referring to.

 

[T.Rex]

To my knowledge no RB has ever came back to put up 1000 total yards after the injuries to both legs Caddy has had.

Medicine today is different then 10 years ago...

 

[JohnnyU]

To my knowledge no RB has ever came back to put up 1000 total yards after the injuries to both legs Caddy has had.Medicine today is different then 10 years ago...

Ok then, anyone in the last 5 years with the same injury as Andre Brown ever come back just as effective as pre-injury? My guess is still a resounding no.

 

[Bri]

Holding onto him now won't turn a bad decision last year into a good one. If increasing your knowledge about a specific injury makes you think he is less likely to contribute then having already held onto him doesn't change that.

I probably need to frame this next to my computer for when I am making moves. It's hard to get rid of injured potential

 

[Tick]

Googling Andre shows "rupture" and others say "tear."Can someone clarify which it is and what the distinction is here?

They are synonymous.

Huh - I thought that tear meant it could be a partial tear, while rupture meant it snapped and rolled up into the calf.

 

[Casting Couch]

(KFFL) The Denver Broncos have released RB Andre Brown, a source told Aaron Wilson, of NationalFootballPost.com.

 

[_lurker_]

(KFFL) The Denver Broncos have released RB Andre Brown, a source told Aaron Wilson, of NationalFootballPost.com.

^ this is why DEN acquired Maroney. I tried snagging Moreno, but no one panicked.

 

[identikit]

(KFFL) The Denver Broncos have released RB Andre Brown, a source told Aaron Wilson, of NationalFootballPost.com.

^ this is why DEN acquired Maroney. I tried snagging Moreno, but no one panicked.

More likely Brown was released because Maroney was acquired.

 

[_lurker_]

(KFFL) The Denver Broncos have released RB Andre Brown, a source told Aaron Wilson, of NationalFootballPost.com.

^ this is why DEN acquired Maroney. I tried snagging Moreno, but no one panicked.

More likely Brown was released because Maroney was acquired.

I'm just guessing here, but Brown is probably far from 100% and was going to be released regardless of which RB they acquired. He was released 'virtually' before the trade and the team probably didn't want to tip their hand. It could be chicken-egg, but I don't think it's about Maroney being a significant contributor as much as the team wanted the best 3rd string RB they could find and Maroney is much cheaper than Lynch.

 

[pantherclub]

(KFFL) The Denver Broncos have released RB Andre Brown, a source told Aaron Wilson, of NationalFootballPost.com.

^ this is why DEN acquired Maroney. I tried snagging Moreno, but no one panicked.

More likely Brown was released because Maroney was acquired.

I'm just guessing here, but Brown is probably far from 100% and was going to be released regardless of which RB they acquired. He was released 'virtually' before the trade and the team probably didn't want to tip their hand. It could be chicken-egg, but I don't think it's about Maroney being a significant contributor as much as the team wanted the best 3rd string RB they could find and Maroney is much cheaper than Lynch.

Andre Brown is very confusing. He ran good all preseason, the NY beat writers were saying he was going to be a part of the offense, he is big, fast and punishes defenders and is a good pass catcher. After watching Jacobs on Sunday I really think he has lost whatever made him special. For the Giants and the Broncs not to keep Brown tells me that there is some other factor that nobody knows about.

 

[pantherclub]

So does Brown get looked at in Green Bay? He is basically the same runner as Grant probably with a better high end speed and better hands.

 

[thriftyrocker]

So does Brown get looked at in Green Bay? He is basically the same runner as Grant probably with a better high end speed and better hands.

Thanks, now I can't cut him.I can't see how he's worse than Dimitri Nance, although now they have to keep Nance a short while.I doubt it would happen, but it would be an amazing landing spot.

 

[Illegal Pants Downfield]

(KFFL) The Denver Broncos have released RB Andre Brown, a source told Aaron Wilson, of NationalFootballPost.com.

 

[Yenrub]

(KFFL) The Denver Broncos have released RB Andre Brown, a source told Aaron Wilson, of NationalFootballPost.com.

^ this is why DEN acquired Maroney. I tried snagging Moreno, but no one panicked.

More likely Brown was released because Maroney was acquired.

I'm just guessing here, but Brown is probably far from 100% and was going to be released regardless of which RB they acquired. He was released 'virtually' before the trade and the team probably didn't want to tip their hand. It could be chicken-egg, but I don't think it's about Maroney being a significant contributor as much as the team wanted the best 3rd string RB they could find and Maroney is much cheaper than Lynch.

Andre Brown is very confusing. He ran good all preseason, the NY beat writers were saying he was going to be a part of the offense, he is big, fast and punishes defenders and is a good pass catcher. After watching Jacobs on Sunday I really think he has lost whatever made him special. For the Giants and the Broncs not to keep Brown tells me that there is some other factor that nobody knows about.

Brown suffered a turf toe injury in the preseason

 

[Hoosier16]

It's hard to believe St. Louis doesn't have an interest in a RB like Brown. With just Darby and Toston behind Jackson, it seems like a good spot.

 

[netnalp]

I haven't read of any Giants fan that wasn't disappointed that Brown was cut. The Giants were hoping, with his turf toe he'd make the practice squad. We'll see if the Giants put a claim in, I hope they do.

 

[loose circuits]

don't teams get 24 hours to claim him? Guess Brown didn't get claimed now?

I like his talent, but he's worthless if he's headed to the UFL

 

[MU Seminole]

Denver placed Andre Brown on the active roster today from their practice squad and waived Lance Ball.

 

[pantherclub]

Denver placed Andre Brown on the active roster today from their practice squad and waived Lance Ball.

There is just something in my gut that tells me that before the year is over Andre Brown will be a solid FF producer.

 

[drfeelgood]

Denver placed Andre Brown on the active roster today from their practice squad and waived Lance Ball.

There is just something in my gut that tells me that before the year is over Andre Brown will be a solid FF producer.

Your gut or your NC State fandom hoping he produces?

 

[pantherclub]

Denver placed Andre Brown on the active roster today from their practice squad and waived Lance Ball.

There is just something in my gut that tells me that before the year is over Andre Brown will be a solid FF producer.

Your gut or your NC State fandom hoping he produces?

Probably a little of both but I think with his speed, size and hands all he needs is a chance.

 

[drfeelgood]

Denver placed Andre Brown on the active roster today from their practice squad and waived Lance Ball.

There is just something in my gut that tells me that before the year is over Andre Brown will be a solid FF producer.

Your gut or your NC State fandom hoping he produces?

Probably a little of both but I think with his speed, size and hands all he needs is a chance.

He was good at NC State, and I think his type of play would translate even better on the NFL level, the only problem is his constant battle with injuries. He did manage to stay healthy for the most part during his senior year at NCSU.

 

[wormburner]

Denver placed Andre Brown on the active roster today from their practice squad and waived Lance Ball.

There is just something in my gut that tells me that before the year is over Andre Brown will be a solid FF producer.

Your gut or your NC State fandom hoping he produces?

Probably a little of both but I think with his speed, size and hands all he needs is a chance.

I've got Brown stashed, but thinking about dropping him for Danny Ware. Bradshaw homer, but he does get nicked up a lot. Anybody know if Jacobs has his helmet back yet?