What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Question for you Cowher bashers (1 Viewer)

C

CrossEyed

Guest
Now that the Patriots have been proclaimed the NFLs most recent dynasty, does this change the way that you look at the AFC Championship game losses by the Steelers? Of the four losses that Cowher has, 2 are against Brady and the Patriots and another is against Elway and the Broncos. If these two prove to be two of the greatest QBs of our era, isn't it at least a little acceptable to have lost to them on their way to Super Bowl victories?Personally, I don't hang these losses on Cowher. But for those of you who do, what do you think?

 

bicycle_seat_sniffer

Smells like chicken
Cowher had home field advantage in all of those AFC championship games he has lost. He has also had three different non-hall of fame QB's. Kordell, Rosie O'Donnell and Big Ben. True the Pats and Bronco's teams were great and won it all, but I think Cowher has the same stigma as Shottenheimer, who is his mentor, have great regulars season but something just happens to them in the playoffs and they get beat.

 
C

CrossEyed

Guest
Cowher had home field advantage in all of those AFC championship games he has lost. He has also had three different non-hall of fame QB's. Kordell, Rosie O'Donnell and Big Ben. True the Pats and Bronco's teams were great and won it all, but I think Cowher has the same stigma as Shottenheimer, who is his mentor, have great regulars season but something just happens to them in the playoffs and they get beat.
But shouldn't Cowher be judged more on what he does with a potential franchise type QB like Ben than what he did with Slash and O'Donnell? I realize that he has already lost one with Ben, but that's the first time a coach has ever gotten to a championship game with a rookie QB, so I'm willing to give him a pass on this one. Won't the next 5-10 years define Cowher's coaching career more than what he's accomplished up to this point? After all, if you look at the history of the Super Bowl, a great percentage of them have been won by a handful of great QBs. and Cowher has never had a great QB.
 

paz1

Footballguy
I am a Steelers fan and a Cowher fan.With that being said, I think he plays too conservatively at times.Someone said in a different thread that they think he plays not to lose instead of to win. I agree with that.

 

gman8343

What would Lemmy do?
I don't blame Cowher for the loses, but if he never gets to or wins the SB, it will reflect badly on him (I guess similar to Manning's situation where some people feel he can't win a 'big game', even though he went in to KC last year and spanked them in the playoffs - to me that was a big game).

 
C

CrossEyed

Guest
I am a Steelers fan and a Cowher fan.With that being said, I think he plays too conservatively at times.Someone said in a different thread that they think he plays not to lose instead of to win. I agree with that.
The onside kick against Dallas in SB XXX with 11:00 still to play doesn't exactly fit into the description of a coach who doesn't play to win.Successful Cowher teams are run and defense oriented. Why should he change his coaching philosophy when it comes to the post-season when that is what got him to the post-season?
 

Frenchy Fuqua

Footballguy
Not a Cowher basher, I certainly think he has a great shot to win at least one SB with Roethlisberger. Outside of Belichick I don't think there is another coach I'd rather have right now...But regarding his AFC Championship record at home...it is what it is...he has now lost 4 of 5. In two of those losses the Steelers were HUGE favorites. If he never wins a Super Bowl that is how many will judge him regardless of how great his regular season winning percentage is or who he lost to in the playoffs.

 

mighty thor

Footballguy
Cowher is a great motivator and his teams always hit hard. They play simple smash mouth football but they do it well. I don't think he is a great caller of games. I also think he has gotten out coached in some big games. I don't know if he would know what to do with a great QB. Is Plaxico just a whiner or is it justifiable complaining by an under used talent? Still, I would rate him as one of the best coaches in the game today. Pittsburgh would regret it if they got rid of him.

 

Bloom

Moderator
i love cowher. as a diehard steeler fan, i wouldnt want to have any other coach. he is the embodiment of the steeler heart. still, he plays "to not lose" in big games, and the whole team tightens up because of it. i think he needs a "bill james" -esque game manager to give him probability stats for game situations to show him that what seems safe actually lowers the chance of winning. the other thing he needs to is realize that you have to throw twists in your game plan when you are in the playoffs. when other coach KNOWS what youre going to do, it makes their average players great.

 

TankRizzo

Footballguy
Any coach who can field a good team year after year with a miserley owner deserves some level of respect.

 

Mungo Burrows

Footballguy
Now that the Patriots have been proclaimed the NFLs most recent dynasty, does this change the way that you look at the AFC Championship game losses by the Steelers? Of the four losses that Cowher has, 2 are against Brady and the Patriots and another is against Elway and the Broncos. If these two prove to be two of the greatest QBs of our era, isn't it at least a little acceptable to have lost to them on their way to Super Bowl victories?Personally, I don't hang these losses on Cowher. But for those of you who do, what do you think?
Had you beaten the Broncos, Elway would have been held short of a Super Bowl yet again. Maybe he would have retired a year early, sad and broken, having never won the big one. At best he'd have his one token Ring from what was clearly T.D.'s team in his 2000 yard season.Had you beaten the Pats (at home) in those games no one would be talking about Brady as one of the best QBs. So no, that doesn't change it.
 
C

CrossEyed

Guest
Any coach who can field a good team year after year with a miserley owner deserves some level of respect.
There's a salary cap. I'm not sure the willingness of the owner to spend is really a factor, is it?
 

Godsbrother

Footballguy
Any coach who can field a good team year after year with a miserley owner deserves some level of respect.
The Steelers are tight against the cap nearly every year. The last I checked, the Steelers were only $90K under the cap in 2005.
 

BGP

Indians Fever
I don't think its Cowher bashing to say he can't win the big game.He's proven he can't win the big game. Its just fact at this point.It doesn't matter wether he runs into the Patriots led by Belichick, or Bobby Ross and the Chargers. No matter the setup, Cowher falls short. The only constant in all those years is Cowher. He must shoulder the blame.

 

BGP

Indians Fever
Not a Cowher basher, I certainly think he has a great shot to win at least one SB with Roethlisberger.
Why?Roethlisberger has no track record of success. He got off to a good start in 2004, but by the end of the year he was playing horrible football. There's no way to tell which is the real Ben. There's been plenty of young QBs who lose confidence and never get it back.
 

houndirish

Footballguy
Cowher had home field advantage in all of those AFC championship games he has lost. He has also had three different non-hall of fame QB's. Kordell, Rosie O'Donnell and Big Ben. True the Pats and Bronco's teams were great and won it all, but I think Cowher has the same stigma as Shottenheimer, who is his mentor, have great regulars season but something just happens to them in the playoffs and they get beat.
Funny you mention Schottenheimer because that's who popped in my head when I read the original post. Marty's Cleveland teams couldn't get past Elway's Broncos. Granted those Bronco teams went on to get steamrolled in the Bowl, but Cowher is beginning to resemble Marty in that the powerful conference team of his era (in this case the Patriots) seem to have his number. That said I have a lot more respect for Cowher than I ever have had for Marty. I also think Cowher can win the Big One wheras I highly doubt Marty will ever even make it to one.
 

Bill

Footballguy
I don't think its Cowher bashing to say he can't win the big game.He's proven he can't win the big game. Its just fact at this point.It doesn't matter wether he runs into the Patriots led by Belichick, or Bobby Ross and the Chargers. No matter the setup, Cowher falls short. The only constant in all those years is Cowher. He must shoulder the blame.
agree completely with this post. if you're a steeler fan and you are just happy to get to the playoffs then cowher is the coach for you. however, if you ever really want to win it all you need someone else.cowher is to coaching as manning is to quarterbacking======comes up short!!!
 

Frenchy Fuqua

Footballguy
Roethlisberger has no track record of success. He got off to a good start in 2004, but by the end of the year he was playing horrible football. There's no way to tell which is the real Ben. There's been plenty of young QBs who lose confidence and never get it back.
Roethlisberger is what Browns fans hoped Tim Couch would be. A winner. 14-1 as a rookie and the stats to back it up. Sure he had a few bumps in the road (Jets twice, NE the 2nd time) but this kid had the best rookie season of any QB ever. You say he had a bad 2nd half of the season yet statistically had 3 of his best games week 13 (at Jax), week 15 (at NYG) and week 16 (vs. Balt).
 

Irish

Footballguy
Not a Cowher basher, I certainly think he has a great shot to win at least one SB with Roethlisberger.
Why?Roethlisberger has no track record of success. He got off to a good start in 2004, but by the end of the year he was playing horrible football. There's no way to tell which is the real Ben. There's been plenty of young QBs who lose confidence and never get it back.
14-1 as a rookie qb! That is success to everyone else. I know you Browns fans define success as 5 wins in a season. Sounds like you have sour grapes because Butchie bypassed the future HOF Big Ben in favor of the whiny f'n soldier boy KWII. I like your predictions of games also, this team may, might, or probably will win and then try and take credit after the fact.
 

Bojang0301

Omar4Heisman
I don't blame Cowher for the loses, but if he never gets to or wins the SB, it will reflect badly on him (I guess similar to Manning's situation where some people feel he can't win a 'big game', even though he went in to KC last year and spanked them in the playoffs - to me that was a big game).
Good news - He's been to the Super Bowl.... Bad news - He lost to Barry Swirzer. :cry:
 

Bri

Footballguy
I think Cowher is one of the best coaches. His record of making the playoffs is impeccable. BB and co come up with new schemes every game. Martz used to have 600 plays or some such so things seemed new. Cowher was super creative back when Kordell played WR and just became the QB. Sometimes during the year he does throw a wrinkle or two in. I'm not saying he lacks creativity completely. I think you've gotta change things up some each week in the playoffs. It appeared Roth and Manning each took a half a second longer to pass or made many frantic changes at the line because BB&co were showing them a different look. That's a simple advantage for the D to get. They've got tough good tackling D and a real hardnosed excellent line, quality WRs, RB, and QB....so much going for them. Sometimes in the playoffs I feel it's a coaching duel moreso than the players winning it. Back when Kordell was WR IIRC they were zone blitzing and confusing everyone left and right. He's gotta figure out how to bring that confusion back and not just win on strength and toughness.

 

Bobcat10

Footballguy
Roethlisberger has no track record of success. He got off to a good start in 2004, but by the end of the year he was playing horrible football. There's no way to tell which is the real Ben. There's been plenty of young QBs who lose confidence and never get it back.
Roethlisberger is what Browns fans hoped Tim Couch would be. A winner. 14-1 as a rookie and the stats to back it up. Sure he had a few bumps in the road (Jets twice, NE the 2nd time) but this kid had the best rookie season of any QB ever. You say he had a bad 2nd half of the season yet statistically had 3 of his best games week 13 (at Jax), week 15 (at NYG) and week 16 (vs. Balt).
That's a horrible comparison. Completely different situations.
 

IvanKaramazov

Footballguy
Now that the Patriots have been proclaimed the NFLs most recent dynasty, does this change the way that you look at the AFC Championship game losses by the Steelers? Of the four losses that Cowher has, 2 are against Brady and the Patriots and another is against Elway and the Broncos. If these two prove to be two of the greatest QBs of our era, isn't it at least a little acceptable to have lost to them on their way to Super Bowl victories?Personally, I don't hang these losses on Cowher. But for those of you who do, what do you think?
I like Bill Cowher a lot, and I respect him as a coach, but you have to admit his teams consistently come up small in the big game. Even in their SB year, they needed a ton of help to beat Jim Harbaugh, of all people. (Bad call on Stewart TD catch, dropped int by Colt player that would have ended the game with Colt win, etc). Great coach during the regular season, but something seems to be missing during the postseason.
 

Raider Nation

Devil's Advocate
I don't think its Cowher bashing to say he can't win the big game.

He's proven he can't win the big game.  Its just fact at this point.

It doesn't matter wether he runs into the Patriots led by Belichick, or Bobby Ross and the Chargers.  No matter the setup, Cowher falls short.  The only constant in all those years is Cowher.  He must shoulder the blame.
agree completely with this post. if you're a steeler fan and you are just happy to get to the playoffs then cowher is the coach for you. however, if you ever really want to win it all you need someone else.cowher is to coaching as manning is to quarterbacking======comes up short!!!
:popcorn:
 

Steelers4Life

Footballguy
I don't think its Cowher bashing to say he can't win the big game.

He's proven he can't win the big game.  Its just fact at this point.

It doesn't matter wether he runs into the Patriots led by Belichick, or Bobby Ross and the Chargers.  No matter the setup, Cowher falls short.  The only constant in all those years is Cowher.  He must shoulder the blame.
agree completely with this post. if you're a steeler fan and you are just happy to get to the playoffs then cowher is the coach for you. however, if you ever really want to win it all you need someone else.cowher is to coaching as manning is to quarterbacking======comes up short!!!
:popcorn:
Bill Cowher is now a head coach of 14 NFL seasons avering over 10 regular season wins per year, and he also has a career 11-9 postseason record with 6 AFC Championship appearances and 2 Super Bowl appearances in that timeframe. He'd have a ring right now if not for 2 INTs by Neil O'Donnell, and in 2 weeks, he might have his first Super Bowl victory.Nevermind the QBs who led their teams to playoff victories against Cowher's Steelers... you know, Montana, Elway, Aikman, Brady a few times. O'Donnell, Stewart, and Tomczak can hold their own against those guys most days.

Amazing. I swear he must have won a few big games in there somewhere, but I could be wrong.

 

Godsbrother

Footballguy
This story is old news. Regardless of what happens in the SB, Cowher has shown that he is an excellent coach. There is no way you can call a coach that takes a 7-5 team to the playoffs by running the table and then beats the top three seeds on the road to the Super Bowl a choker.

 

PhD

Footballguy
Now that the Patriots have been proclaimed the NFLs most recent dynasty, does this change the way that you look at the AFC Championship game losses by the Steelers? Of the four losses that Cowher has, 2 are against Brady and the Patriots and another is against Elway and the Broncos. If these two prove to be two of the greatest QBs of our era, isn't it at least a little acceptable to have lost to them on their way to Super Bowl victories?

Personally, I don't hang these losses on Cowher. But for those of you who do, what do you think?
Not to take away anything from Brady, I wouldn't say that he was the one who beat the Steelers in the Patriots first AFC Championship win. The Steelers lost that game to Troy Brown's huge special teams plays (2TDs) and Drew Bledsoe off the bench - 1TD (and of course to the pathetic play of Kordell -- can you believe Cowher even got that far with Kordell??).
 

fred_1_15301

Footballguy
Now that the Patriots have been proclaimed the NFLs most recent dynasty, does this change the way that you look at the AFC Championship game losses by the Steelers?  Of the four losses that Cowher has, 2 are against Brady and the Patriots and another is against Elway and the Broncos.  If these two prove to be two of the greatest QBs of our era, isn't it at least a little acceptable to have lost to them on their way to Super Bowl victories?

Personally, I don't hang these losses on Cowher.  But for those of you who do, what do you think?
Not to take away anything from Brady, I wouldn't say that he was the one who beat the Steelers in the Patriots first AFC Championship win. The Steelers lost that game to Troy Brown's huge special teams plays (2TDs) and Drew Bledsoe off the bench - 1TD (and of course to the pathetic play of Kordell -- can you believe Cowher even got that far with Kordell??).
As a Steeler fan, there have been many times when I've doubted Cowher but nobody can deny the tremendous job he's done this year. Say what you want, but he's outcoached some of the top coaches in the nfl en route to Detroit. No doubt in my mind that he's bringing one for the thumb this year.......
 

stevec

Footballguy
Cowher is a very good coach, and likely a Hall of Fame coach. He needs to win a Super Bowl, but once he does that, his ticket to Canton is pretty much punched.He can get in without doing it, but he'd have to get 300+ wins or something. He's the only guy coaching right now that I think has a legitimate shot to pass Shula for most wins all-time: young enough with a track record of solid winning. It's not a great shot, but it's there.I am hoping he does not win that Super Bowl this year, though, since my Seahawks are the opponent.

 

ThisGuy

Ignored by Nipsey
The only QB Cowher beat was Jim Harbaugh and Harbaugh almost pulled that game out too. He needs to win the big one.

 

Frenchy Fuqua

Footballguy
Cowher added an amazing chapter to his legacy this year. His playoff record now stands at 11-9. A victory in the SB would make it 12-9. That and his amazing regular season record would virtually guarantee him a spot in the Hall of Fame.

 

Bloom

Moderator
i love cowher. as a diehard steeler fan, i wouldnt want to have any other coach. he is the embodiment of the steeler heart. still, he plays "to not lose" in big games, and the whole team tightens up because of it. i think he needs a "bill james" -esque game manager to give him probability stats for game situations to show him that what seems safe actually lowers the chance of winning. the other thing he needs to is realize that you have to throw twists in your game plan when you are in the playoffs. when other coach KNOWS what youre going to do, it makes their average players great.
i am happy to say that almost a year later, this post is now dead wrong about him. :thumbup: to coach cowher for trusting his QB and OC and evolving!
 

jcjets

Footballguy
Is Pitt loses the superbowl Cower will still be right behind Marv Levy. If he gets to another Championship or SB and loses that one then I put hiim ahead of Marv Leavy.If Cower wins the SB then he will be remembered as a 'great' coach.

 

DoctorDetroit

Chocolate Thunder
Two years ago I spent some time in Pittsburgh during the season and every morning, caller after caller on Sport's Radio was wanting Cowher's head. -He's been here too long -he's lost it-he is too comfortable-he knows the Rooney's will never fire him -this is just going to keep going down hill-etc, etc, etcWTF? Now he is a hero of all heroes. Now I really wonder how many of those radio callers are on boards like these saying how he is the greatest coach since Julius Caesar. Did the radio shows during that (I think they were 6-10 or so) year just play these idiots wanting Cowher's head? Was that truly the feeling in Pittsburgh? Do you know these kinds of people? What are they saying now? I'm just interested to know because I have always thought Pittsburgh was very lucky to have Cowher and I couldn't believe the crap I was hearing over one bad season.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Bloom

Moderator
Two years ago I spent some time in Pittsburgh during the season and every morning, caller after caller on Sport's Radio was wanting Cowher's head.

-He's been here too long

-he's lost it

-he is too comfortable

-he knows the Rooney's will never fire him

-this is just going to keep going down hill

-etc, etc, etc

WTF? Now he is a hero of all heroes. Now I really wonder how many of those radio callers are on boards like these saying how he is the greatest coach since Julius Caesar. Did the radio shows during that (I think they were 6-10 or so) year just play these idiots wanting Cowher's head? Was that truly the feeling in Pittsburgh? Do you know these kinds of people? What are they saying now?

I'm just interested to know because I have always thought Pittsburgh was very lucky to have Cowher and I couldn't believe the crap I was hearing over one bad season.
you have to remember, the 2003 season was the debacle that saw the steelers change to a pass first team led by... Tommy Maddox?!!?!now, that mess of a season got us in position to take big ben, so im not complainin', but when cowher decided to completely change the character of the offense, i had some doubts.

 

Hamstring

Footballguy
Needs a SB to be great. Has been a fine coach with a terrific record.Levy almost gets great by actually going to 4 straight. That's absurd.Not to take anything away from Cowher, but I wonder how coached would fare with little pressure from ownership and a long 14-15 year run?

 

Cookiemonster

Footballguy
Kudos to RAIDERNATION for digging this one out of the archives. Been a huge Steeler fan since Chuck's last year. I've always been proud of that team, and happy to have Cowher as a coach. Its so much fun to know that your team has a chance, EVERY YEAR. Year in, year out, they've been good. Even their 'down' years haven't been horrible. 6-10 stunk, but if there's a limited # of those and a large quantity of Div.Champs, I'll take it. Pass whacky? When that's your team's strength, go w/ it. It worked one year, not the next. Remember they even had A.Zereoue starting some that year. Yeah, the same guy who got cut in Oakland!

 

BlueOnion

Footballguy
First let me say I think Cowher is one of the best coaches in the league. But like Peton Manning, until they win the big game...they haven't won the big game.Unfortunately winning the big game is how some people judge players\coaches.

 

Irish

Footballguy
First let me say I think Cowher is one of the best coaches in the league. But like Peton Manning, until they win the big game...they haven't won the big game.

Unfortunately winning the big game is how some people judge players\coaches.
I thought Cowher and the Steelers just won 3 big games in a row on the road. One more to go.
 

Keys Myaths

Pokerguy
First let me say I think Cowher is one of the best coaches in the league. But like Peton Manning, until they win the big game...they haven't won the big game.

Unfortunately winning the big game is how some people judge players\coaches.
I thought Cowher and the Steelers just won 3 big games in a row on the road. One more to go.
That's the problem. You're always judged in a negative light by your critics, no matter what you do.
 

jurb26

Footballguy
First let me say I think Cowher is one of the best coaches in the league. But like Peton Manning, until they win the big game...they haven't won the big game.

Unfortunately winning the big game is how some people judge players\coaches.
I thought Cowher and the Steelers just won 3 big games in a row on the road. One more to go.
Yes, Cowher did just win A big game 3 weeks in a row. He did not however win THE big game yet.
 

redman

Footballguy
Can someone put together a list of FA departures of starters that the Stillers have suffered during Cowher's reign there? I know it's impressive. The guy's been a magician with the talent drain that he's had to endure there, especially given that the biggest name who they've acquired during this time was Jerome Bettis a decade ago.

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top