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**Raiders at Chiefs** Black Friday Edition (-13, 42.5) 3:00 (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Ministry of Pain
- Start date
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
how?, they fumbled
renesauz
IBL Representative
HOw about the awful PI call that gave them their last FG?
Chiefs are a good team, but they aren't an 11-1 caliber team. They just aren't. they look like a team that should finish 12-5 or 13-4. This luck is gonna run out. It might be in the playoffs before it does, but they just aren't good enough to keep winning this way
renesauz
IBL Representative
I agree. I loathed that DPI call....but it wasn't an unusual call, I just hate how the NFL calls those in general. It was uncatchable to start with, and I don't think offenses should be so easily awarded with 25, 30, 40 yards on balls that aren't close to the route the WR is running
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Bueller.....Bueller....
I don't disagree with the idea that teams can't live on the razors edge forever; that luck does run out. But I also don't think Mahomes and the O is as bad as they've been this year. They're capable of putting up better numbers. A much better version of that O rearing its head at some time in the year is a real possibility.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
It wasn’t?
The Guard tapped him....the Center snapped...the QB wasn't ready. It was a fumble clearly recovered by the Chiefs. There wasn't a whistle blown; blowing the play dead. I don't really think there was anything wrong with the string of events; and if it were any other team in the NFL, there wouldn't be this thought that the refs are in the bag. We saw teams for years whither under the pressure of Brady/Belichik and Foxsboro....why can't we just admit that this Chiefs is just like them?
WaltonGoggins
Footballguy
GG I also picked him up and started him can’t complain.
renesauz
IBL Representative
I honestly don't think so. The O line isn't very good. Mahomes is still a magician and will make several wow plays most games, so the Chiefs will NEVER be an easy out, but this isn't a team that will put up 30+ points for several games in a row. I just think this team doesn't have all that great a chance to repeat, despite the record because they've had an extraordinary amount of luck to build that record.
renesauz
IBL Representative
Ref at the top WAS blowing the whistle and running in before the ball was ever recovered. I don't think it impacted the result and I don't know that they got the actual call wrong, but something was definitely off about how the officials handled it
JohnnyU
Footballguy
OL moved I thought. If they did, that’s a dead ball foul.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
That video is blowing up the internet rn
Def was a play being blown dead, conference, changed the call to one that made it a live ball
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
whatever, nothing is going to change
Raiders had their chances before all that happened
even if they back them up 5 yards, that probably just means Carlson was going to miss his 4th attempt from 55 plus
(56, 55, 58, last one would have been from 55 after they walked off the illegal motion)
Raiders had their chances before all that happened
even if they back them up 5 yards, that probably just means Carlson was going to miss his 4th attempt from 55 plus
(56, 55, 58, last one would have been from 55 after they walked off the illegal motion)
rockaction
Footballguy
I do not believe so. They showed it during the Amazon panel and it didn’t look like Crosby. I am not positive, but it seems the most likely explanation, too, considering nobody credited him with what should be an obvious sack.
belljr
Footballguy
Illegal formation and false start are the same referee hand signals.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Unreal the luck KC has……..and help they get every week.
themeistersinger
Footballguy
Didn’t the Steelers start 11-0 a couple years ago and the lose out?
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
That's nice
Do they come running in from the sideline blowing their whistle when it's illegal formation?
- Far side official comes flying in from top of screen signaling false start. Crossing arms (dead ball) and signaling foul, while the "fumble" hasn't been recovered yet
- No official checks or signals Chiefs ball because they blew it dead.
- Refs change it to illegal shift, allowing a play that was blown dead to count as a live ball fumble.
Does. Not. Matter. Raiders had many, many chances to win before their final play. Back them up 5, and they would have just missed a 4th FG from 55 or longer.
Pretty sure they announced illegal motion which is a different hand signal. The ref at the bottom threw a flag I’m assuming for illegal motion/shift. He throws it and then stands there because it’s not a play killing penalty. Ref at the top throws the flag, immediately starts running in as he puts his whistle in his mouth (presumably he’s blowing it but you can’t hear). All this happens before the ball is recovered. He also doesn’t run to the fumble spot he runs right to the head ref making the false start/illegal formation signal (but again formation wouldn’t cause him to run in while the play was live) All his mannerisms suggest he had a play killing false start. At this point I haven’t seen anyone actually false start. Nevertheless it’s pretty hard to walk back a play killing penalty being signaled mid play.
rockaction
Footballguy
Everyone wants to say that officials hand the Chiefs wins. The refs weren’t playing on the offensive line in Denver when Chenal trucked that dude and blocked the kick. They were awful for both teams all game today. They even let game play go during the commercials (the officials were supposed to adjust to it and not let that happen). They missed two KC catches, one that cost KC a field goal chance at the end of the first half.
I mean, they were bad and that last play was no surprise.
I mean, they were bad and that last play was no surprise.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Nah, bro - look it up, please
False start
Illegal formation
Encroachment offense
all the same signal from a couple different referee websites
BUT....and it does not matter, nothing will change....the crossing of raised arms before signaling false start most definitely means dead ball foul
The referee announces illegal shift. 12 second mark. The hand signal is different from false start/illegal formation. I hope you realize I’m in agreement with you about everything else. This just adds to the certainty that the referee at the top wasn’t making the illegal shift call. He had a false start and made the signal for it.
x.com
x.com
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
No stake in the game, but every other time I can recall the center snapping the ball before the QB was ready it was a false start
Nah I’ve def seen QBs caught off guard with an early snap fairly regularly and it not be a false start.
Stoneworker
Footballguy
This part is absolutely correct. But no player anywhere near the football responded to it and therefore that particular ref's actions did not affect the fumble recovery per se. It was the false start being overruled to illegal formation that determined the outcome
crushedspirit
Footballguy
Illegal shift penalty is a live ball foul, thus the play is allowed to continue.
False start only occurs when the line is set, which they were not.
Refs got it right and Raiders found a way to hand KC the win.
False start only occurs when the line is set, which they were not.
Refs got it right and Raiders found a way to hand KC the win.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
The referee announces illegal shift. 12 second mark. The hand signal is different from false start/illegal formation. I hope you realize I’m in agreement with you about everything else. This just adds to the certainty that the referee at the top wasn’t making the illegal shift call. He had a false start and made the signal for it.
x.com
OK
but earlier you said (and quoted yourself) that it was illegal ****
both are dead ball fouls - should not have been a fumble
also, does. not. matter.
ya gotta play well enough to overcome bad calls - especially when you're the bad team
Detroit gets these kind of calls now....for 60 years, we were on the wrong ****ing end of that stick
just gotta deal with it, play better so the bad calls don't matter
excuses are like sphincters, everybody has one
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
Happened to the Ravens this year.
Stoneworker
Footballguy
It's a false start when the center moves/adjusts the ball without snapping, not actually hiking it
I don’t even know what/if we’re arguing here but I do know you told me to look it up when I said illegal motion was a different hand signal from false start so I did to confirm that both illegal motion and illegal shift are different hand signals from false start as I thought.The referee announces illegal shift. 12 second mark. The hand signal is different from false start/illegal formation. I hope you realize I’m in agreement with you about everything else. This just adds to the certainty that the referee at the top wasn’t making the illegal shift call. He had a false start and made the signal for it.
x.com
OK
but earlier you said (and quoted yourself) that it was illegal ****
both are dead ball fouls - should not have been a fumble
also, does. not. matter.
ya gotta play well enough to overcome bad calls - especially when you're the bad team
Detroit gets these kind of calls now....for 60 years, we were on the wrong ****ing end of that stick
just gotta deal with it, play better so the bad calls don't matter
excuses are like sphincters, everybody has one
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I don’t even know what/if we’re arguing here but I do know you told me to look it up when I said illegal motion was a different hand signal from false start so I did to confirm that both illegal motion and illegal shift are different hand signals from false start as I thought.The referee announces illegal shift. 12 second mark. The hand signal is different from false start/illegal formation. I hope you realize I’m in agreement with you about everything else. This just adds to the certainty that the referee at the top wasn’t making the illegal shift call. He had a false start and made the signal for it.
x.com
OK
but earlier you said (and quoted yourself) that it was illegal ****
both are dead ball fouls - should not have been a fumble
also, does. not. matter.
ya gotta play well enough to overcome bad calls - especially when you're the bad team
Detroit gets these kind of calls now....for 60 years, we were on the wrong ****ing end of that stick
just gotta deal with it, play better so the bad calls don't matter
excuses are like sphincters, everybody has one
Not really trying to argue with you or anyone else
League officiating is trash
Ya gotta overcome that if you want to win games
No excuses
JohnnyU
Footballguy
It really hurts the brand.I don’t even know what/if we’re arguing here but I do know you told me to look it up when I said illegal motion was a different hand signal from false start so I did to confirm that both illegal motion and illegal shift are different hand signals from false start as I thought.The referee announces illegal shift. 12 second mark. The hand signal is different from false start/illegal formation. I hope you realize I’m in agreement with you about everything else. This just adds to the certainty that the referee at the top wasn’t making the illegal shift call. He had a false start and made the signal for it.
x.com
OK
but earlier you said (and quoted yourself) that it was illegal ****
both are dead ball fouls - should not have been a fumble
also, does. not. matter.
ya gotta play well enough to overcome bad calls - especially when you're the bad team
Detroit gets these kind of calls now....for 60 years, we were on the wrong ****ing end of that stick
just gotta deal with it, play better so the bad calls don't matter
excuses are like sphincters, everybody has one
Not really trying to argue with you or anyone else
League officiating is trash
Ya gotta overcome that if you want to win games
No excuses
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
At the end of the day, bad calls are the same as injuries.
It doesn’t matter. As a team you have to put it out of your mind and focus on overcoming it. Problems are normal. Adversity is normal.
Winning games when things don’t go perfectly are what separates top level teams from the ones looking for excuses as to why they didn’t execute.
It doesn’t matter. As a team you have to put it out of your mind and focus on overcoming it. Problems are normal. Adversity is normal.
Winning games when things don’t go perfectly are what separates top level teams from the ones looking for excuses as to why they didn’t execute.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I’d rather scream at the refs if I gave a poop.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Blaming the refs is a loser mentality.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
What if the refs are losers?
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
What’s strange though is that the PBP still shows a sack for -17. And a fumble, not lost.
But neither the sack, nor the FF are credited to anyone, which I’ve actually never seen before.
At some point I imagine they’ll resolve it. It’s super weird. Like I said, I watched the play live and it was 98 and no one else chasing down Mahomes 17 yards deep.
I don’t see how you don’t credit that as a sack to Crosby. Maybe not the fumble if indeed Mahomes just dropped it after the play was blown dead.
Unless, and I concede this is at least remotely possible, I had a bad acid flashback and hallucinated the whole thing, including hearing Al Michaels call the play.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
They really don’t look like a championship team. They look like a team that’s caught a whole lot of lucky breaks to win several games they rightly should have lost.
they don’t suck - they have Mahomes and a very good defense at times. They look like an 8-4 team, not an 11-1 team.
But they do have a 4-lead clover up their keisters, so who knows. It’s pretty amazing to see how they keep stealing victory from the jaws of defeat.
I dare you to bet your $$ against them if all they need to do is win 2 home games to get to the SB.
Zow
Footballguy
I stand by the comment.
ChiefD
Footballguy
Missed most of the game due to my son’s first hockey game up here in Wisconsin. He played JV today on the one line and ended up with 4 goals and two assists. He also suited up for varsity but didn’t get in. They are pretty stacked. Hopefully he will get some minutes there as he gets more familiar with the guys and the coaches get familiar with him.
A great day. Glad to hear the refs beat the Raiders today.
A great day. Glad to hear the refs beat the Raiders today.
Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
not what the penalty was...
Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
feels like "luck" means something different to the masses when it comes to the Chiefs....
Harry Frogfish
Footballguy
You need to check your fanbase, at least here on FBGs. The week you played the Rams the complaints came in and often in the game thread; it was noticeable and I was wondering if they were always like that. In a game they ended up dominating, it was interesting to see them jumping on controversial game calls early on which ended up meaningless.
Harry Frogfish
Footballguy
HUH???
JohnnyU
Footballguy
The offensive lineman moved and should have been a dead ball foul.
