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You're gonna slow down about 4% for each 1% of grade that you run over the course of a marathon (a little less at the start and more at the end). That race is about 2% grade on average the whole way (my guess from the elevation chart). So maybe 8% slower? Given the races you are doing previously perhaps aim for 10-12% slower than you would normally run. Something like that.
I'll add:ChallengeAssaultGapChallengeBloodThose are all code for "either you are in insane shape or you're gonna die."
Look up DOMS - delayed onset muscle soreness.Listen to Grue about the ice bath thing. They suck balls, but they work and work well.
That's possible, I did push a variety of workouts last week. I've done ice baths before, not fun but I agree that they work. Usually I've only done these after a 20+ miler or intense bike ride.
I can only take Hammer Gel, the others have turned my stomach too. I do these with a combo of Gu Chomps (love pomigranite). The Gu Chomps stay soft and are easier to eat. Good advice above from Sand on the Body Glide. I use it for every run and ride (and on my pits when I swim, chaffed there once and never want to again).
This is a darn
It's easy to get caught up in the day to day runs and think "how in the hell am I going to do such and such a pace when this feels pretty tough as it is?". Being fully healed and on fresh legs is a huge boost.
Thanks Sand. Does this apply at 200 pounds or is there a weight factor that needs to be accomodated?
No mention of weight. Go over to Mymarathonpace and download the Marathon Course Time Predictor excel file. There is a good page in there that talks about how he grades times in marathons. That is where I got my info.
Agree with almost all the above. In terms of bodyglide -- don't forget about your nipples. At the mile 15 mark (for me), I had to start doing something or they would chafe bad. I personally liked putting bandaids over them (and it hurt a bit when I had to take them off), but I know others use bodyglide/vaseline.My first few times I used gels, I just focused on getting them down. So I would stop running and walk for 5 minutes while eating the gel and drinking the water. Eventually (after a couple times), I would eat the gel and drink the water while running. In terms of questioning yourself (I just finished my first marathon a couple weeks ago), I think I questioned myself in my training when I was doing long runs of mile 12-17. Once I hit 18, I knew I'd be able to walk the last bunch of miles if need be.Sounds like you had a bad day which is normal.....you should be happy that you ran as long as you did on your long run.Keep up the good work!
One other thing to consider is that it sounds like you haven't worked out your fueling yet. For me, I didn't realize how very important this issue is until my Long Runs got to around 16 or 17 miles - pretty much where you are.My fueling strategy is to drink 4-6 oz. of sports drink every two miles, sometimes replacing the drink with some beans every sixth mile. For example:
Hey look at me, I ran in the cold.
I agree with the band-aids. I found circle ones that fit perfectly over the nipples and don't rip when pulling them off. Some of the adhesives they have on standard band-aids are brutal. If I run over 5k I have to band-aid up.
Thanks, tri-man. This is what I've been telling myself, but I needed to hear it from someone else.This is a darnIt's easy to get caught up in the day to day runs and think "how in the hell am I going to do such and such a pace when this feels pretty tough as it is?". Being fully healed and on fresh legs is a huge boost.
I used band-aids on Sunday but am going to try bodyglide elsewhere.
This may prove to be the most helpful post. It occurred to me after I read this that I haven't been drinking near enough on my long runs. I was in a rush on Sunday and didn't get to plant much fluid on my route. My wife dropped water bottles at 6 and 11, so I could take my gels, but other than that, I didn't take any fluid.
Really dumb on my part.Sometimes it's the simple things you overlook.Hey pmb, thanks for getting all of that together. I am looking forward to meeting you and everyone else.
What's the general thinking on including recovery days / weeks with your training?I just put together a plan for my 1/2 on May 1st but didn't include anything like that.
Date Week Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat Sun Total Increase17-Jan 1 2 Rest 2 Rest 2 Rest Rest 6 0%24-Jan 2 3 Rest 3 Rest 3 Rest Rest 9 50%31-Jan 3 4 Rest 4 Rest 4 Rest Rest 12 33%7-Feb 4 4 Rest 4 Rest 5 Rest Rest 13 8%14-Feb 5 4 Rest 4 Rest 6 Rest Rest 14 8%21-Feb 6 4 Rest 4 Bike Rest 7 Rest 15 7%28-Feb 7 4 Rest 5 Bike Rest 8 Rest 17 13%7-Mar 8 4 Rest 5 Bike Rest 9 Rest 18 6%14-Mar 9 4 Rest 5 Bike Rest 10 Rest 19 6%21-Mar 10 4 Rest 5 Bike Rest 11 Rest 20 5%28-Mar 11 5 Rest 5 Bike Rest 12 Rest 22 10%4-Apr 12 5 Rest 6 Bike Rest 12 Rest 23 5%11-Apr 13 5 Rest 6 Bike Rest 10 Rest 21 -9%18-Apr 14 4 Rest 5 Bike Rest 8 Rest 17 -19%25-Apr 15 3 Rest 4 Rest Walk 2 Rest 13.1 20.1 18%
Now that we are officially in the next steps are all the logistics items:- Team Name - I recommend opening it up to the entire FFA and seeing what comes out.- Vans - What do we get; need to make reservations since they will certainly be in high demand; are we going to recruit two drivers or are runners going to drive as well; estimated expenses- Figure out who runs what legs and what process we need to use to get that done- Get Chad's and Randy's information into the spreadsheetWe've got lots of time, but if we start noodling with this stuff now it will get done before it becomes panic time. We don't want panic time - I do it in my job all the time and it sucks. For my part I plan on trying to help out with the race packet for our team. Custom sheets for each runner to carry. Master packets for each van. I figure we can use Google Latitude to keep track of the vans en route. I have a set of POIs for each leg that will make sure we don't get lost as long as someone has their iPhone or Droid on, etc. Stuff like that.
Sounds like a plan. How easy?My concern in putting this together was not increasing the miles too much each week.
As far as drivers go, we as runners cannot drive on the course. I believe that Randy's wife will do one of the driving and possibly my wife for the other. I may be able to recruit some one else if need be. I am not sure if my dad would do it or not, but he may be game with enough bribe.I think we definitely need to do the van thing. two 15 passenger is what is recommended and I think this is a must. It will give each team enough room for gear, food/drink, and enoug space to stretch out without killing each other by the time this thing is done.Here is a preliminary list of what I think is important for this thing and in what order:1. Team Name: May seem small, but we need an identity.2. Vans3. How is everyone getting to this area? - I only am really worried about this is if people decide to fly into Cincy, I will be more than willing to pick people up, but just need to know when and how many.4. Which legs each will run - I think that we really pick an order for people to run and then you stay in that order for the entire 200 miles. This could be key if people do not want to run certain legs of this race.5. Getting any gear, supplies that we need. I know we need a head lamp and reflective vest for each van and maybe 2 per would be a good thing as well.That is what I can remember from the top of my head, but is a good start. I agree on the panic mode for this. I would love for it to be everyone just show up and we don't have to decide anything once everyone is in the area.Now that we are officially in the next steps are all the logistics items:- Team Name - I recommend opening it up to the entire FFA and seeing what comes out.- Vans - What do we get; need to make reservations since they will certainly be in high demand; are we going to recruit two drivers or are runners going to drive as well; estimated expenses- Figure out who runs what legs and what process we need to use to get that done- Get Chad's and Randy's information into the spreadsheetWe've got lots of time, but if we start noodling with this stuff now it will get done before it becomes panic time. We don't want panic time - I do it in my job all the time and it sucks. For my part I plan on trying to help out with the race packet for our team. Custom sheets for each runner to carry. Master packets for each van. I figure we can use Google Latitude to keep track of the vans en route. I have a set of POIs for each leg that will make sure we don't get lost as long as someone has their iPhone or Droid on, etc. Stuff like that.
15 faster per mile than Sunday's run, yet 12 bpm slower!). My legs ache, but seem to be holding up.
My ideas here:1. Should I start a main FFA thread? We should get some good laughs if nothing else.2. Having drivers is good. 15 passenger is good. No idea where the best place to rent is. I saw a thread a while ago on it - I'll find it and PM you.3. I'm driving. These days anything under 6 hours drive is a drive. Flying is a pain in the ###. Where is our house that we will crash at, anyway? 4. What legs people will run. I expect some debate here, so this is good to start this conversation. Personally I think we should essentially seed our runners by ability and assign the hardest ones to the best runners - this will make a big difference in our final times. We should make accommodations for folks that need to pair up with their brother-in-law or whatever (go with/avoid your wifely driver, etc). I'd suggest we also allow folks to request legs close to their seeded ability and see how that shakes out. I would expect, for example, that Grue and Pat would get the two hardest slots. One certainty, IMO, is that you run the legs that that runner is assigned to - Runner 1 gets legs 1, 13, and 25. Mixing and matching is a disaster. (Personally I have no attachments, but there is a leg that I really, really want to do that is close to my seed). I'd also recommend that Pat be given dictatorial control over final choices to avoid any conflict. 5. I'd recommend that folks bring their own vest, at the least. I've got one and you guys really don't want to don my sweat soaked vest. Truly. Remember, this is the guy who in the summer loses over 1lb./mile in sweat. I have a list of items in the spreadsheet on Facebook that folks can peruse taken from someone's advice from somewhere. It looked pretty good.pmbrown_22 said:
They always have water.
Will it be easier to rent vans in neighboring states like Indiana and drive them to Clermont?Sand said:Darrinll40 said:Now that we are officially in the next steps are all the logistics items:- Team Name - I recommend opening it up to the entire FFA and seeing what comes out.- Vans - What do we get; need to make reservations since they will certainly be in high demand; are we going to recruit two drivers or are runners going to drive as well; estimated expenses- Figure out who runs what legs and what process we need to use to get that done- Get Chad's and Randy's information into the spreadsheetWe've got lots of time, but if we start noodling with this stuff now it will get done before it becomes panic time. We don't want panic time - I do it in my job all the time and it sucks. For my part I plan on trying to help out with the race packet for our team. Custom sheets for each runner to carry. Master packets for each van. I figure we can use Google Latitude to keep track of the vans en route. I have a set of POIs for each leg that will make sure we don't get lost as long as someone has their iPhone or Droid on, etc. Stuff like that.
The overall mileage isn't that demanding (though it might seem that way now), and you're only running three days a week. So don't fret too much over recovery weeks - you're getting a lot of recovery days. One option would be to make the long run in week 10 a 12 mile run. Then in week 11, back it down to 8 or 9 miles. Week 12, then, will be back to 12 miles again. So week 11 would be a bit of recovery.Sand said:
Catching up, had a few drinks, travelling for work. As I recall, vans were tough to come by in that area. I can rent one for cheap (I hope) and can drive my bro in law, Dexter & Turkish down there. We could even think about picking up Wraith, Tri-Man & Grue along the way if this works. I am trying to get Chad to get his stuff in, if he does not by the weekend, I will.Will it be easier to rent vans in neighboring states like Indiana and drive them to Clermont?Sand said:Darrinll40 said:
...as long as we don't transport illegal contraband with us.
Maybe we rent a van in Chicago for the contingent from this area. I do expect gruecd, Wraith, and I will head down together. I'll check with Wraith if it will still work to crash as his mom's place near Lexington. He's been taking a little break from the site here, but I have his email and phone number.
Big Log said:
C'mon, garmin gurus!And, yes, gruecd has an "other half" ...what we commoners refer to as our "better half."
Big Log said:
My favorite run was an 8 miler on the strip a couple years ago.I used the jetlag for an early run my first morning there.Was up at 4, 5, and then at 6 I finally said "F it" and went out, started at the Mirage and headed south.Only people on the streets were runners, people heading to work, and people carrying drunk friends home.Was interesting trying to run down the strip going up and down overpasses and even having to run through Bellagio.Had been to Vegas 5 times but had never seen the sign so my plan was to head down and back.Saw the sign and bonus of seeing a helicopter take off over me from McCarren about 100 feet away.After the sign I decided to run further than planned and was immediately rewarded by finding a $20.Made it down to the outlets and ended up doing about 8 miles.Plan was to jump in the pool when I got back to Mirage but it wasn't open yet. Showered, got dressed, and headed over to Bouchon for (free from the $20) Bouchon French Toast, was an awesome morning.
During the workout, you're pushing 'lap' ..'lap' ..'lap,' and at the end, you push the start/stop button and it doesn't stop? It should not be the cold or the length of the workout. Have you tried playing around with at all inside the house where you can keep a close eye and be deliberate while pushing the buttons?
1. Go ahead and start a main FFA thread. Could be good. You could start by giving a few of the names we have suggested already as a start, but I think it could take off pretty well.2. I like the idea of renting from different locals than around here. Randy did mention that they are hard to come by as the race gets closer.4. I am up for one of the hardest. I don't think we have a choice, but to seed us and then sort things out from there. We have to stay in the original order we are put in. I intend (have to) study the maps and elevations in the packet so we can get everyone's best out of them. Only makes sense if we are going to make a run at this thing.5. I am up for brining our own gear. I probably should have that stuff anyway.
I'll start something. I can't find a lot of the suggestions (this thread is effing long and we talked about it back in Oct.), but I'll do something.I found a good thread over at the Bourbon site about getting vans, but the board is down.You and Grue are the two fastest runners in the group (how fast is Randy? We don't have a time for him). You're gonna be near the top of the list. Heck, I want to have a blast, but I want to post a great time, too. BTW, I have forgotten where we are staying (and I'll ask again because I am curious) - what town is the house we are crashing at?pmbrown_22 said:
I think Randy is a 7:00/per mile type guy. He will be up there with us. I think Gru is between 6:30 and 6:50, but don't quote me on that. I will be around 7:00 to 7:20 depending on the stretch of dirt.The original plan was to crash at Wraith's moms house which is close to the start. That could change though as well depending if it is still an option or not.Some of the names we talked about are:Bourbon CowboysAll of your Bourbon are belong to us (something like that, whatever that game phrase is)Whiskey D-i-c-k-sBourbon LegendsBand of BrothersFBG something or other
Yes. That's your body responding to constriction in your lung's blood vessels due to the colder air in the lungs. It is a somewhat similar effect as running at altitudes. Clothing does nothing to help this. Eventually you adjust, but by that time it might be warm again.Genedoc said:
This is pretty cool you all are planning on this. If I wasn't retired I'd consider it. 5k to 10k was by bread and buttah BITD.
