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Ran a 10k in June (5 Viewers)

3 days post marathon and I can finally walk down steps without any pain. :loco: Looking to do a short 2-3mi easy run tomorrow. Mentally I wanted to run yesterday, but there was no way in hell. Quads have been screaming at me all week.This summer I'm going to be focusing on having some fun with the speed stuff. I have no idea what races I'll do other than a 5K while on vacation with my brother. I'm sitting on the fence right now about doing the full or half at Philly in November.
You should do it, if just to get the taste of the last one out of you. Philly in November should be much cooler than 80.
If I were single and no kids, I'd already be teeing up the Pfitz 18/70. However, I've been catching some flack from the wife about the training commitment for another marathon this year. She's blindly supported me through the HM and marathon excursions. I need to tread lightly. :puttingonbestsalespitch:
Ned, I totally think you should do another marathon. You were primed for a great day but the weather got you. I think you could run another one in a month and have a much better result, just based on conditions alone. That being said, I wouldn't recommend you jump up to the Pfitz 18/70 or even 18/55 yet. I tried to do 18/55 after my rookie marathon and it kicked my ### so much that my confidence is still kind of shaken to the point where - paradoxically - I feel less certain of my ability to run a marathon now than I was before I had actually run one. That book is called "Advanced Marathoning" for a reason. All of the following goes for me too: I think you might be better off looking at the Hidgon Advanced I or something like that. Keep the focus on mileage, mileage, mileage and don't worry about the speedwork that much yet. Your rookie marathon showed that you still have some gains to make in endurance that will probably be easier to attain and less likely to cause injury than jumping too much into intervals yet.
Good to see ya, GB. Thanks for the advice/confidence. I don't know what I'm doing at this point, but agree the 18/70 is super ambitious. I was actually reading the Running Times article on it and saw the schedule. :eek: :lol:
 
I'm coming late to the party, but have followed this thread from time to time. Quick background, former sloth to 2x pointy end IM Wisconsin finisher in two years time (had a rolldown Kona spot I passed on) to weekend warrior type now (family priorities have taken precedence). I'd like to IM at some point again when the kids are older, but am just sort of having fun now. For the first time in years, I'm doing races/fun rides again, a "beer century" bike ride with friends in a few weeks, a 1/2 mary trail run w/ elevation gain in early July, maybe a sprint tri in Sept. and a full marathon in late October. I'm the king of LSD and have been laying down base since late winter, doing 11-15 mile runs about every other week among other regular activities. Right now I'm trying to break out of my typical slow rides/runs with some intensity and have started the Insanity DVD workout series. Right now it's kicking my butt, and part of that is my own doing as I'm doubling up Insanity in the morning with bikes/runs during the day. I have a pretty good feel for my body, and so far my general fatigue is ok but my legs are killing me. My ride yesterday was fine on the flats and on hills I would get dropped every time. I hope it helps my overall running/biking though. I'll try to contribute to this thread as time permits, and probably have some nice input as I was totally geeked out tri-guy about 5-6 years ago and could go head-to-head with most coaches on training philosophy, equipment (including power meters), race strategy, etc. I'm a little rusty now on all that, but am getting back into my groove after burning out pretty hard after my second IM. Looking forward to getting to know this group.
Is this a Floppo Alias? ;) :welcome:
 
8 miles tonight with 4 hill repeats in the middle. Hill was 0.30 miles long with elevation gain of 52 feet, so it was 3.28% average grade. Ran 'em all in the low 6:20s, and felt like puking towards the end of the last one. Next time I'll do 5 repeats.

Just an easy 5-mile recovery run tomorrow, then 20 miles on Saturday (probably in the rain) as I start to get ready for Grandma's.

Hope you guys have a great night!

 
Signed up for a rec soccer league with some coworkers thinking I am in pretty good shape. Our first game was tonight and that is a completely different level of fitness. I could do run 10 miles tomorrow and be just fine but that start & stop, sprint & walk thing completely kicked my butt. However, it was a ton of fun and should provide excellent cross training for everything else this summer.

 
Signed up for a rec soccer league with some coworkers thinking I am in pretty good shape. Our first game was tonight and that is a completely different level of fitness. I could do run 10 miles tomorrow and be just fine but that start & stop, sprint & walk thing completely kicked my butt. However, it was a ton of fun and should provide excellent cross training for everything else this summer.
lol-fwiw- I was a div 1 college player and semi-pro afterwards (in my 20s). I got into triathlons in my late 30s. At some point after I had finshed my first and only IM, I decided to get back into pickup games... figuring the same as you- I can run for hours, so this should be cake. I completely forgot that it's a different set of muscles and muscle response. I had no acceleration or speed or ability to cut.eta: AND I was completely gassed after about 15 mintues... but did catch my wind and kept playing for hours.
 
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JFT Ben - welcome to the thread! ...and welcome back to training and competition.

Exit - I had never joined a running club, even though there's an active one here in Chicago, and a regular group in my community. But coincidentally, Groupon just had a discounted coupon for the Chicago group (CARA), so I joined. It will save me a few bucks on some race entries. I have always trained alone, which is how I like it. Others like or need the group thing, though.

---

Any racing this weekend?

 
No racing for me...had another 5k planned but after the ankle/calf issue last weekend I decided against it and have been resting and riding or walking all week.

3 different bike rides...and two different 4 mile walks now....

Legs are feeling pretty good, but going to give it a few more days before getting back to running (though, its hard not getting out there with the weather getting nicer....some great coolish mornings coming).

 
Signed up for a rec soccer league with some coworkers thinking I am in pretty good shape. Our first game was tonight and that is a completely different level of fitness. I could do run 10 miles tomorrow and be just fine but that start & stop, sprint & walk thing completely kicked my butt. However, it was a ton of fun and should provide excellent cross training for everything else this summer.
lol-fwiw- I was a div 1 college player and semi-pro afterwards (in my 20s). I got into triathlons in my late 30s. At some point after I had finshed my first and only IM, I decided to get back into pickup games... figuring the same as you- I can run for hours, so this should be cake. I completely forgot that it's a different set of muscles and muscle response. I had no acceleration or speed or ability to cut.eta: AND I was completely gassed after about 15 mintues... but did catch my wind and kept playing for hours.
Where did you play? I went to Clemson and was good enough for the back end of the roster (i.e. practice but never play).
 
Signed up for a rec soccer league with some coworkers thinking I am in pretty good shape. Our first game was tonight and that is a completely different level of fitness. I could do run 10 miles tomorrow and be just fine but that start & stop, sprint & walk thing completely kicked my butt. However, it was a ton of fun and should provide excellent cross training for everything else this summer.
lol-fwiw- I was a div 1 college player and semi-pro afterwards (in my 20s). I got into triathlons in my late 30s. At some point after I had finshed my first and only IM, I decided to get back into pickup games... figuring the same as you- I can run for hours, so this should be cake. I completely forgot that it's a different set of muscles and muscle response. I had no acceleration or speed or ability to cut.eta: AND I was completely gassed after about 15 mintues... but did catch my wind and kept playing for hours.
Where did you play? I went to Clemson and was good enough for the back end of the roster (i.e. practice but never play).
Columbia, late 80s- in and out of the lineup, only starting consistently my senior year. I was up against a Jamaican international at my position- central MF- who mercifully graduated before me.When were you at Clemson?- ACC had some solid teams in my day (those were the years Virginia won a couple of championships, IIRC).
 
'El Floppo said:
'Sand said:
Signed up for a rec soccer league with some coworkers thinking I am in pretty good shape. Our first game was tonight and that is a completely different level of fitness. I could do run 10 miles tomorrow and be just fine but that start & stop, sprint & walk thing completely kicked my butt. However, it was a ton of fun and should provide excellent cross training for everything else this summer.
lol-fwiw- I was a div 1 college player and semi-pro afterwards (in my 20s). I got into triathlons in my late 30s. At some point after I had finshed my first and only IM, I decided to get back into pickup games... figuring the same as you- I can run for hours, so this should be cake. I completely forgot that it's a different set of muscles and muscle response. I had no acceleration or speed or ability to cut.

eta: AND I was completely gassed after about 15 mintues... but did catch my wind and kept playing for hours.
Where did you play? I went to Clemson and was good enough for the back end of the roster (i.e. practice but never play).
Columbia, late 80s- in and out of the lineup, only starting consistently my senior year. I was up against a Jamaican international at my position- central MF- who mercifully graduated before me.When were you at Clemson?- ACC had some solid teams in my day (those were the years Virginia won a couple of championships, IIRC).
89-93. I was a striker and we had a freshman striker lead the NCAA in scoring. Whoops - so much for sneaking into the lineup. And we beat Virginia in the ACC in 89 - it was awesome.---

On a totally unrelated note, and pretty much on a swimming :nerd: note:

Redemption day:

500yds - 5:59.59

Heck yea. Bring on the swim.

 
For Sand and JFT and maybe Triman one day.

Knocked out my 80 miler this morning. Split data as follows...

0-20: 19.0 mph aver, 77 rpm, 0.2 mph headwind, 135 hr, 220 watts, 825 ft climb

20-40: 20.7 mph aver, 75 rpm, 0.7 mph tailwind, 132 hr, 247 watts, 375 ft climb

40-60: 20.0 mph aver, 75 rpm, 0.0 mph net wind, 135 hr, 232 watts, 750 ft climb

60-80: 20.5 mph aver, 77 rpm, 0.1 mph headwind, 140 hr, 242 watts, 500 ft climb

0-80: 19.8 mph aver, 76 rpm, 0.1 mph headwind, 136 hr, 231 watts, 2550 ft climb

4 h 2m to ride 80 miles.

I suspect the power numbers are high for two reasons. First of all the calcs are based on riding in the drops and I had clip-ons on the road bike. Secondly the wind sensor isn't catching clean air. The important thing is that the data is good for comparsion within a ride and between rides on calm to light wind days.

Have to say that I'm very happy with the results. Average close to 20.4 mph on the back 60 was a welcome sight. My plan for the ride was 18.7 mph.

Did get hosed on the last split as I slowed down to get into a shouting match with some redneck that buzzed me and caught 3 lights. Man I wanted to rip that guys head off when discration kicked in. Not much upside getting into it with a clown who's car is worth about a 1/3 of the of the bike your on. Regardless, it was good to have some fuel in the tank for the last 1/4 of the ride.

Next week is a step back bike week and the serious running resumes.

 
---Any racing this weekend?
Fargo marathon. I just finished pinning on my number, lacing in the chip, and breaking up my shot bloks into 4-cube baggies, so now all that's left to do is, well, nothing. The forecast for tomorrow morning calls for rain throughout the race, with some possibility of thunder storms, along with sustained 18 mph winds. The wind should be mostly a cross-wind, though, so it's not as bad as it could have been. This wasn't going to be a BQ anyway, so I'll just make the best of it regardless.
 
For Sand and JFT and maybe Triman one day.Knocked out my 80 miler this morning. Split data as follows...0-20: 19.0 mph aver, 77 rpm, 0.2 mph headwind, 135 hr, 220 watts, 825 ft climb20-40: 20.7 mph aver, 75 rpm, 0.7 mph tailwind, 132 hr, 247 watts, 375 ft climb40-60: 20.0 mph aver, 75 rpm, 0.0 mph net wind, 135 hr, 232 watts, 750 ft climb60-80: 20.5 mph aver, 77 rpm, 0.1 mph headwind, 140 hr, 242 watts, 500 ft climb0-80: 19.8 mph aver, 76 rpm, 0.1 mph headwind, 136 hr, 231 watts, 2550 ft climb4 h 2m to ride 80 miles.I suspect the power numbers are high for two reasons. First of all the calcs are based on riding in the drops and I had clip-ons on the road bike. Secondly the wind sensor isn't catching clean air. The important thing is that the data is good for comparsion within a ride and between rides on calm to light wind days.Have to say that I'm very happy with the results. Average close to 20.4 mph on the back 60 was a welcome sight. My plan for the ride was 18.7 mph.Did get hosed on the last split as I slowed down to get into a shouting match with some redneck that buzzed me and caught 3 lights. Man I wanted to rip that guys head off when discration kicked in. Not much upside getting into it with a clown who's car is worth about a 1/3 of the of the bike your on. Regardless, it was good to have some fuel in the tank for the last 1/4 of the ride.Next week is a step back bike week and the serious running resumes.
Those are some solid numbers... what do you weight and what is your max HR? Also, your average RPM seem low, even with the climbing.. do you normally ride in that range? Just curious, no right or wrong answer on RPM's as everyone rides a little differently. Do you ride with a power meter then? If so, best investment especially in climbing scenarios where people tend to hammer early and fade late (both on a climb and throughout a day like that).ETA2: As I was jealous of your wattage average, I checked my old files for wattage at those 20 MPH IM average, I'm a small, lean rider with fairly decent aero form on a slammed Cervelo Soloist with clip-ons, and I averaged 157 watts to hit that bike time, same ave. wattage both years, nearly same time. I saw that your KOM 3-day is probably mostly uphill, but don't discount aero gains you can get on a flatter course or downhills(again, I have no idea where you are on bike fit, so if you're good to go then ignore this rambling, otherwise a pro bike fit can pay back way more in time than a carbon this or a few grams less there)ETA3: where are you getting wind data? I've been away for awhile, but is there some new equipment that picks that up?
 
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1.5 miles into my 6 mile run I felt a twinge in my lower back. I don't mess with my lower back so I stopped and walked back. I feel fine but I'm not risking it so close to the start of the race season.

Tomorrow Turkish and I are practicing transition and doing a brick at stoney creek.

 
---

Any racing this weekend?
Fargo marathon. I just finished pinning on my number, lacing in the chip, and breaking up my shot bloks into 4-cube baggies, so now all that's left to do is, well, nothing. The forecast for tomorrow morning calls for rain throughout the race, with some possibility of thunder storms, along with sustained 18 mph winds. The wind should be mostly a cross-wind, though, so it's not as bad as it could have been. This wasn't going to be a BQ anyway, so I'll just make the best of it regardless.
...nothing to do but let the nerves kick in, but you seem calm and you are ready. Sounds like ugly conditions, but whatcha gonna do, right? Have a great race! Keep 'er steady, IK!BnB - very solid biking for 80 miles! Wow.

 
---Any racing this weekend?
Fargo marathon. I just finished pinning on my number, lacing in the chip, and breaking up my shot bloks into 4-cube baggies, so now all that's left to do is, well, nothing. The forecast for tomorrow morning calls for rain throughout the race, with some possibility of thunder storms, along with sustained 18 mph winds. The wind should be mostly a cross-wind, though, so it's not as bad as it could have been. This wasn't going to be a BQ anyway, so I'll just make the best of it regardless.
Give it heck man and have a great race. Looking forward to your report. Don't forget to lube up.edit to add: To J and the board mod...lube up refers to applying bodyglide to prevent bleeding from the area where babies feed. This is an excellent suggestion, not me not being excellent to Ivan.
 
---Any racing this weekend?
Fargo marathon. I just finished pinning on my number, lacing in the chip, and breaking up my shot bloks into 4-cube baggies, so now all that's left to do is, well, nothing. The forecast for tomorrow morning calls for rain throughout the race, with some possibility of thunder storms, along with sustained 18 mph winds. The wind should be mostly a cross-wind, though, so it's not as bad as it could have been. This wasn't going to be a BQ anyway, so I'll just make the best of it regardless.
Give it heck man and have a great race. Looking forward to your report. Don't forget to lube up.edit to add: To J and the board mod...lube up refers to applying bodyglide to prevent bleeding from the area where babies feed. This is an excellent suggestion, not me not being excellent to Ivan.
Is nipple bleeding really that big of an issue?
 
---

Any racing this weekend?
Fargo marathon. I just finished pinning on my number, lacing in the chip, and breaking up my shot bloks into 4-cube baggies, so now all that's left to do is, well, nothing. The forecast for tomorrow morning calls for rain throughout the race, with some possibility of thunder storms, along with sustained 18 mph winds. The wind should be mostly a cross-wind, though, so it's not as bad as it could have been. This wasn't going to be a BQ anyway, so I'll just make the best of it regardless.
Give it heck man and have a great race. Looking forward to your report. Don't forget to lube up.edit to add: To J and the board mod...lube up refers to applying bodyglide to prevent bleeding from the area where babies feed. This is an excellent suggestion, not me not being excellent to Ivan.
Is nipple bleeding really that big of an issue?
Minor annoyance. Kick ### Ivan!! :thumbup:

 
Did the bike to work and back again today. 17 miles each way, takes about an hour to work, maybe an hour and ten minutes on the way back as I'm generally in no hurry. Am planning on doing a 6 mile run and half mile swim tomorrow.

 
1.5 miles into my 6 mile run I felt a twinge in my lower back. I don't mess with my lower back so I stopped and walked back. I feel fine but I'm not risking it so close to the start of the race season.Tomorrow Turkish and I are practicing transition and doing a brick at stoney creek.
Do they have the swim area up at Baypoint? I may head up there Tuesday night and wouldn't mind getting a swim in after I bike & run. I am planning on doing the BT mock tri tomorrow out at Island Lake, but the weather looks iffy. If I don't get in the water tomorrow, the prospect of doing my 1st OWS of the season during the Island Lake Tri doesn't sound like a lot of fun. As it is, I have had no time to train the last 6-weeks. No :ptts: , just too much stuff getting in the way.
 
---Any racing this weekend?
Fargo marathon. I just finished pinning on my number, lacing in the chip, and breaking up my shot bloks into 4-cube baggies, so now all that's left to do is, well, nothing. The forecast for tomorrow morning calls for rain throughout the race, with some possibility of thunder storms, along with sustained 18 mph winds. The wind should be mostly a cross-wind, though, so it's not as bad as it could have been. This wasn't going to be a BQ anyway, so I'll just make the best of it regardless.
Good luck, kicks off in 20 minutes!
 
Today's run ended up being a lesson. I had planned an easy 4 or 5 as a set-back week after some hard weeks. It was a fail on one part, but a not fail on two others.

The fail part was my head, I passed the 4 and 5 mile turnaround feeling good so I decided to go for 7. At the 4 mile mark my legs finally convinced my brain that it was time to walk, unfortunately I was 4 miles from home. The first non fail part was realizing that after only walking a few minutes the legs stopped aching. The second non fail part was that I only walked a mile. For the first time since I have been running I was able to run a significant distance after running. I did the last 2 miles in about 21 minutes.

I am wondering if I can train my body to run 6 or 7 miles then walk 1, and do it repeatedly. Something like that will get me through 26.2, I think.

 
Recovering from a marathon is no joke. I took yesterday off and did another easy 3 this morning. One word sums up the run - STIFF. :(

 
Today's run ended up being a lesson. I had planned an easy 4 or 5 as a set-back week after some hard weeks. It was a fail on one part, but a not fail on two others.

The fail part was my head, I passed the 4 and 5 mile turnaround feeling good so I decided to go for 7. At the 4 mile mark my legs finally convinced my brain that it was time to walk, unfortunately I was 4 miles from home. The first non fail part was realizing that after only walking a few minutes the legs stopped aching. The second non fail part was that I only walked a mile. For the first time since I have been running I was able to run a significant distance after running. I did the last 2 miles in about 21 minutes.

I am wondering if I can train my body to run 6 or 7 miles then walk 1, and do it repeatedly. Something like that will get me through 26.2, I think.
Its much easier to do it on set times versus distance. Galloway Run/Walk Marathon. I did the trail 1/2 marathon a few weeks back, way under trained, doing 10/2 intervals with relative ease, compared to if I had ran it. I used the interval settings on the Garmin to alert me to the times to run and walk.

 
1.5 miles into my 6 mile run I felt a twinge in my lower back. I don't mess with my lower back so I stopped and walked back. I feel fine but I'm not risking it so close to the start of the race season.

Tomorrow Turkish and I are practicing transition and doing a brick at stoney creek.
Do they have the swim area up at Baypoint? I may head up there Tuesday night and wouldn't mind getting a swim in after I bike & run. I am planning on doing the BT mock tri tomorrow out at Island Lake, but the weather looks iffy. If I don't get in the water tomorrow, the prospect of doing my 1st OWS of the season during the Island Lake Tri doesn't sound like a lot of fun. As it is, I have had no time to train the last 6-weeks. No :ptts: , just too much stuff getting in the way.
Doubt it, but I'll let you know. As someone told me earlier in the thread when I was crying about not training HTFU!
 
Advanced Marathoning isn't available on iBooks, but is for the Kindle. :thumbdown:
I got it out of the library. I am reading it now and I copied the 24 week/55 mile training plan. So far I dont think the book is worth buying. Way to much "science" in it. I do like the plans though. Maybe if I was an advanced marathoner and i wanted to go to a university and have all these blood tests done I may like it better.I will be using the plan I copied for my training for the Dec marathon.
 
---Any racing this weekend?
Fargo marathon. I just finished pinning on my number, lacing in the chip, and breaking up my shot bloks into 4-cube baggies, so now all that's left to do is, well, nothing. The forecast for tomorrow morning calls for rain throughout the race, with some possibility of thunder storms, along with sustained 18 mph winds. The wind should be mostly a cross-wind, though, so it's not as bad as it could have been. This wasn't going to be a BQ anyway, so I'll just make the best of it regardless.
Good luck man!! You may already be done with this when I read it.
 
Recovering from a marathon is no joke. I took yesterday off and did another easy 3 this morning. One word sums up the run - STIFF. :(
:yes: fwiw, it gets a little better as you do more. Also depends on exertion and surface. I wasn't neatly as sore after the trail 50k as I was after my last road marathon - and that was better than the first marathon.
 
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Fargo ..currently 65 degrees and windy (as IK knew it would be). It looks like some rain blew through an hour ago ..don't know about earlier in the day.

--

Mile repeats for me today: 5 x 1 mile @ 6:40/mile average. Oof, mile repeats are hard!

 
2 mile walk pushing my daughter...well, a mile to the playground and a bit of running around there...and a mile back.

Hot as crap out there though. I was nearly begging to be raptured on that last hill back to the house.

 
Fargo ..currently 65 degrees and windy (as IK knew it would be). It looks like some rain blew through an hour ago ..don't know about earlier in the day.--Mile repeats for me today: 5 x 1 mile @ 6:40/mile average. Oof, mile repeats are hard!
I think I did this workout once with similair results...on my bike.What's next on the calendar speedy?
 
Fargo ..currently 65 degrees and windy (as IK knew it would be). It looks like some rain blew through an hour ago ..don't know about earlier in the day.--Mile repeats for me today: 5 x 1 mile @ 6:40/mile average. Oof, mile repeats are hard!
I think I did this workout once with similair results...on my bike.What's next on the calendar speedy?
:lol: One day. If I'm lucky I will be posting a workout like this. You da man, tri.
 
Fargo ..currently 65 degrees and windy (as IK knew it would be). It looks like some rain blew through an hour ago ..don't know about earlier in the day.--Mile repeats for me today: 5 x 1 mile @ 6:40/mile average. Oof, mile repeats are hard!
I think Matt Long is in Fargo as well.
 
I did 9.16 miles today. It was in the 80s, I need to hydrate better. I was really hurting and I blame it on dehydration. I may need to look into one of those fuel belt things.

 
Did the bike to work and back again today. 17 miles each way, takes about an hour to work, maybe an hour and ten minutes on the way back as I'm generally in no hurry. Am planning on doing a 6 mile run and half mile swim tomorrow.
Skipped the swim but did an easy 6 miles in the pouring rain. It was actually kind of fun because it wasn't cold and I was splashing in all of the puddles since I was wearing my vibrams and they dry well. Official splits were:8:578:428:408:328:338:28The Madison half marathon is in 8 days. I haven't been following any real training program and my long runs have been kind of all over the board (8:45 averages one weekend, 9:15 the next). I think the plan of attack will be to start slow and run the first 6 miles around 9:00 each and then pick up the pace if things are going well.
 
1.5 miles into my 6 mile run I felt a twinge in my lower back. I don't mess with my lower back so I stopped and walked back. I feel fine but I'm not risking it so close to the start of the race season.

Tomorrow Turkish and I are practicing transition and doing a brick at stoney creek.
Do they have the swim area up at Baypoint? I may head up there Tuesday night and wouldn't mind getting a swim in after I bike & run. I am planning on doing the BT mock tri tomorrow out at Island Lake, but the weather looks iffy. If I don't get in the water tomorrow, the prospect of doing my 1st OWS of the season during the Island Lake Tri doesn't sound like a lot of fun. As it is, I have had no time to train the last 6-weeks. No :ptts: , just too much stuff getting in the way.
Doubt it, but I'll let you know. As someone told me earlier in the thread when I was crying about not training HTFU!
2Y2B your answer is no the swim area is not up yet. Water felt surprisingly good though.
 
Did the bike to work and back again today. 17 miles each way, takes about an hour to work, maybe an hour and ten minutes on the way back as I'm generally in no hurry. Am planning on doing a 6 mile run and half mile swim tomorrow.
Skipped the swim but did an easy 6 miles in the pouring rain. It was actually kind of fun because it wasn't cold and I was splashing in all of the puddles since I was wearing my vibrams and they dry well. Official splits were:8:578:428:408:328:338:28The Madison half marathon is in 8 days. I haven't been following any real training program and my long runs have been kind of all over the board (8:45 averages one weekend, 9:15 the next). I think the plan of attack will be to start slow and run the first 6 miles around 9:00 each and then pick up the pace if things are going well.
If you have been averaging 8:45 on any long runs in non-race conditions, then this should be a good target. 8:45 would be easier than your pace on today's run which you called an easy run. It would be much easier to do 8:45s followed by 8:15s then 9:00s followed by 8:00s.
 
What's next on the calendar speedy?
A 5K next weekend (the 28th). I'd like to keep a strong focus on the 5Ks throughout the rest of this year (with a couple of relays thrown in, of course) ...see what I can do with my time at this distance.
Have you petition the mods to change your board name to 5k-man or runner-man?
Or just Old Man Running? I'd like to live up to my name, but with the heavy marathon focus 'til now, I don't want to get stubborn about it. It'll be a fun summer and fall, seeing what happens if I stay run-focused for the first time in 14 years. Next winter's base training will be cross-training for the tris again.
 
Race Report (Fargo Marathon, 5/21/11) -- Long and self-indulgent.

Cliffs notes: Went out too fast and crashed and burned. You guys could just about write up the rest of the report for me, because this is a pretty standard entry in the genre.

The weather forecast the night before the event was for heavy rain and thunderstorms along with winds. When I went to bed, I fully expected to fall back to my "B" goal of sub-4:00, which I did at Twin Cities last October. However, the actual weather on race day was way beter than advertised. No rain at all, overcast, low-60s, and while it was still pretty windy, the wind was out of the SE on a course that tends S for the first half and N for the second, so at least it would be a tailwind during the back half. I had been training with 3:50 as a time goal, which would be almost a 9 minute PR for me. I didn't feel like I was under any special pressure though, and I would have been cool with going out slower and repeating my TCM time. But then it occured to me that if this race wasn't that big a deal, then why not go out for 3:50 and if I fall apart at the end, hey this wasn't that big a deal right? Being unable to find any holes in this obviously impeccable logic, I lined up near then 3:50 pacer and away we went.

On a side note, this is kind of a funny event in the sense that the entire city of Fargo is pretty much preoccupied with it. This is their Boston, their Indianapolis 500, their Wimbeldon. I watched the local news the night before, and I think every story was somehow marathon-related. If you don't know the culture of the upper midwest, it's hard to describe just how earnest they are about this kind of stuff. It's really sweet.

Anyway, you guys know how this goes. The first several miles were stupid easy. To be honest, I started to notice things getting a little harder than I would have liked around the 10K mark, but I decided to give it a few more miles. Around Mile 9 or 10, it was clear that there was no way I was going to be able to hold this pace when the race got serious later on. You guys all know what I mean. If this was a 10-13 mile training run, holding an 8:47 pace would have been a good workout but no serious problem. But when I was running 9:09s in Twin Cities, it was still stupid easy at the halfway point, but became quite difficult during the last 10K. By Mile 10, 8:47 was doable but no longer "OMG I can go forever" easy, so I dialed it back to 4:00 pace.

Too late. I crossed the halfway mark at 1:56 and change, and I that point I was still sort of expecting to PR, but by Mile 16 I was having a tough time running 9:09, and the wheels finally came off at Mile 18 when I had to start mixing in some walking. The rest of the race was a bunch of miles in the 12-13 minute "deathmarch" category.

A few highlights of the deathmarch: The 4:00 group passed me during Mile 19, at which point I more or less checked out psychologically. I'm not going to voluntarily take a DNF obviously, but if this was R&R Vegas and the sweep bus was right behind the 4:00 pacer, I wouldn't have minded too much. Around Mile 20 I got passed by a slow chick who works in my building. Her son and my son are in the same grade and play on the same basketball team. Her husband and son had been along the course in several spots already cheering her on. She tapped me on the shoulder and said hi when she passed, which was a 100% friendly gesture. This is one of the nicest families you'll ever meet and I hope she met whatever time goal she was shooting for. (The website is down right now, so no results).

Around the 23.5 mile mark -- the details are a little fuzzy at this point -- I got passed by the 4:30 pace group. Okay, I said I had already mentally checked out of the race, but come on. A man has to have some standards. I passed them back pretty handily and death-shuffled the last couple of miles instead of walking, except for a late aid station. I thought I had a nice sized buffer for 4:30, but when I got to the 26 mile marker, I looked at my Garmin and saw that I only had a little over 90 seconds to spare if I wanted my time to read 4:29:xx. Not a huge deal since my time was really "Crash and Burn" anyway, but I dropped the hammer at the end (hammer? lol) and came in at 4:29:58 Garmin time. The 4:30 pacer must have missed his quota, because they were not within sight when I finished, and yes I know they didn't pass me back because I was keeping an eye out for them.

So. What to make of this? First of all, I am not the slightest bit disappointed or sad. I knew that 3:50 was an aggressive goal for me. It wasn't stupid like "Hey, lets knock 45 minutes of your PR and get a BQ" but it was on the aggressive side of what was reasonable. I don't feel foolish for trying and failing.

What it really came down to is the fact that I trained with a 3:50 goal in mind. If I'm not going to go for it when I get B+ conditions, the why the hell did I pick that goal? When I lined up, I was uncertain as to whether I could do this, but I really wanted to know: Given the genes my parents gave me and my training regimen, can I run a 3:50 marathon? I got my answer, and that's a valuable outcome.

Prosopis mentiond Pfitzinger's book above. There is a B&N literally right behing my hotel, so yesterday I picked up a copy and read it while sitting around. It is abundantly clear to me that I need more miles. I already suspected this from lurking at the RW forums. My training program had 5 runs of 18+ miles (18/20/20/22/22), but it maxed out at 42 mpw with four days per week throughou. What I learned today is that that just isn't enough if I want to improve. If I am content to have 4:00 be my top-end time in ideal conditions, then I can keep doing what I'm doing. I was hoping that a second marathon cycle in a 12-month period would improve my fitness enought to knock 10 minutes off my PR, but I try very hard to be honest with myself, and the fact is that my training for Fargo did not go appreciably better than my training for TCM, so race day magic was not enough to give me that improvement. Okay, my training went a little better, but that's because I was doing a bunch of long runs in February and March in cold temperatures as opposed to July and August. Surprise! It's easier to do training runs when you're bundled up for a 10-degree day than when it's 80 and humid. I'm not going to make any plans right now, but I could see 18/55 in my future, provided I spend some time building my base in preparation.

In other words, the race itself was a huge fail, but I learned something valuable, gained good race experience, and I'm happy that I erred on the side of aggression instead of being more conservative.

Now all that's left to do is to drink the beer I bought yesterday and deposited in my hotel fridge. Before any of you #######s chime in, yes I know alcohol slows recovery. But it does wonders for one's attitude. That counts, right?

Also, I should add here that the FFA is awesome in general, but this thread in particular is a great place for thinking out loud / venting about this kind of stuff. Just typing all of this up was a useful way to gather my thoughts. Thanks guys.

 
What's next on the calendar speedy?
A 5K next weekend (the 28th). I'd like to keep a strong focus on the 5Ks throughout the rest of this year (with a couple of relays thrown in, of course) ...see what I can do with my time at this distance.
Have you petition the mods to change your board name to 5k-man or runner-man?
Or just Old Man Running? I'd like to live up to my name, but with the heavy marathon focus 'til now, I don't want to get stubborn about it. It'll be a fun summer and fall, seeing what happens if I stay run-focused for the first time in 14 years. Next winter's base training will be cross-training for the tris again.
Not to tempt you to do a tri, but 4/5ths of No X-Country for Dirty Old are in for an event on Tawas Bay the weekend after Labor Day!!! Pete is contemplating doing the Long Course Duathlon in celebration of his 50th (and Edgar was thinking of doing the HIM until Mark & I explained what we did to train for one last year :) )
 
1.5 miles into my 6 mile run I felt a twinge in my lower back. I don't mess with my lower back so I stopped and walked back. I feel fine but I'm not risking it so close to the start of the race season.

Tomorrow Turkish and I are practicing transition and doing a brick at stoney creek.
Do they have the swim area up at Baypoint? I may head up there Tuesday night and wouldn't mind getting a swim in after I bike & run. I am planning on doing the BT mock tri tomorrow out at Island Lake, but the weather looks iffy. If I don't get in the water tomorrow, the prospect of doing my 1st OWS of the season during the Island Lake Tri doesn't sound like a lot of fun. As it is, I have had no time to train the last 6-weeks. No :ptts: , just too much stuff getting in the way.
Doubt it, but I'll let you know. As someone told me earlier in the thread when I was crying about not training HTFU!
2Y2B your answer is no the swim area is not up yet. Water felt surprisingly good though.
You & TH should come out to Island Lake tomorrow for the BT event. Details are on th MI BT board. Thanks for the intel.
 
Race Report (Fargo Marathon, 5/21/11) -- Long and self-indulgent.

Cliffs notes: Went out too fast and crashed and burned. You guys could just about write up the rest of the report for me, because this is a pretty standard entry in the genre.

The weather forecast the night before the event was for heavy rain and thunderstorms along with winds. When I went to bed, I fully expected to fall back to my "B" goal of sub-4:00, which I did at Twin Cities last October. However, the actual weather on race day was way beter than advertised. No rain at all, overcast, low-60s, and while it was still pretty windy, the wind was out of the SE on a course that tends S for the first half and N for the second, so at least it would be a tailwind during the back half. I had been training with 3:50 as a time goal, which would be almost a 9 minute PR for me. I didn't feel like I was under any special pressure though, and I would have been cool with going out slower and repeating my TCM time. But then it occured to me that if this race wasn't that big a deal, then why not go out for 3:50 and if I fall apart at the end, hey this wasn't that big a deal right? Being unable to find any holes in this obviously impeccable logic, I lined up near then 3:50 pacer and away we went.

On a side note, this is kind of a funny event in the sense that the entire city of Fargo is pretty much preoccupied with it. This is their Boston, their Indianapolis 500, their Wimbeldon. I watched the local news the night before, and I think every story was somehow marathon-related. If you don't know the culture of the upper midwest, it's hard to describe just how earnest they are about this kind of stuff. It's really sweet.

Anyway, you guys know how this goes. The first several miles were stupid easy. To be honest, I started to notice things getting a little harder than I would have liked around the 10K mark, but I decided to give it a few more miles. Around Mile 9 or 10, it was clear that there was no way I was going to be able to hold this pace when the race got serious later on. You guys all know what I mean. If this was a 10-13 mile training run, holding an 8:47 pace would have been a good workout but no serious problem. But when I was running 9:09s in Twin Cities, it was still stupid easy at the halfway point, but became quite difficult during the last 10K. By Mile 10, 8:47 was doable but no longer "OMG I can go forever" easy, so I dialed it back to 4:00 pace.

Too late. I crossed the halfway mark at 1:56 and change, and I that point I was still sort of expecting to PR, but by Mile 16 I was having a tough time running 9:09, and the wheels finally came off at Mile 18 when I had to start mixing in some walking. The rest of the race was a bunch of miles in the 12-13 minute "deathmarch" category.

A few highlights of the deathmarch: The 4:00 group passed me during Mile 19, at which point I more or less checked out psychologically. I'm not going to voluntarily take a DNF obviously, but if this was R&R Vegas and the sweep bus was right behind the 4:00 pacer, I wouldn't have minded too much. Around Mile 20 I got passed by a slow chick who works in my building. Her son and my son are in the same grade and play on the same basketball team. Her husband and son had been along the course in several spots already cheering her on. She tapped me on the shoulder and said hi when she passed, which was a 100% friendly gesture. This is one of the nicest families you'll ever meet and I hope she met whatever time goal she was shooting for. (The website is down right now, so no results).

Around the 23.5 mile mark -- the details are a little fuzzy at this point -- I got passed by the 4:30 pace group. Okay, I said I had already mentally checked out of the race, but come on. A man has to have some standards. I passed them back pretty handily and death-shuffled the last couple of miles instead of walking, except for a late aid station. I thought I had a nice sized buffer for 4:30, but when I got to the 26 mile marker, I looked at my Garmin and saw that I only had a little over 90 seconds to spare if I wanted my time to read 4:29:xx. Not a huge deal since my time was really "Crash and Burn" anyway, but I dropped the hammer at the end (hammer? lol) and came in at 4:29:58 Garmin time. The 4:30 pacer must have missed his quota, because they were not within sight when I finished, and yes I know they didn't pass me back because I was keeping an eye out for them.

So. What to make of this? First of all, I am not the slightest bit disappointed or sad. I knew that 3:50 was an aggressive goal for me. It wasn't stupid like "Hey, lets knock 45 minutes of your PR and get a BQ" but it was on the aggressive side of what was reasonable. I don't feel foolish for trying and failing.

What it really came down to is the fact that I trained with a 3:50 goal in mind. If I'm not going to go for it when I get B+ conditions, the why the hell did I pick that goal? When I lined up, I was uncertain as to whether I could do this, but I really wanted to know: Given the genes my parents gave me and my training regimen, can I run a 3:50 marathon? I got my answer, and that's a valuable outcome.

Prosopis mentiond Pfitzinger's book above. There is a B&N literally right behing my hotel, so yesterday I picked up a copy and read it while sitting around. It is abundantly clear to me that I need more miles. I already suspected this from lurking at the RW forums. My training program had 5 runs of 18+ miles (18/20/20/22/22), but it maxed out at 42 mpw with four days per week throughou. What I learned today is that that just isn't enough if I want to improve. If I am content to have 4:00 be my top-end time in ideal conditions, then I can keep doing what I'm doing. I was hoping that a second marathon cycle in a 12-month period would improve my fitness enought to knock 10 minutes off my PR, but I try very hard to be honest with myself, and the fact is that my training for Fargo did not go appreciably better than my training for TCM, so race day magic was not enough to give me that improvement. Okay, my training went a little better, but that's because I was doing a bunch of long runs in February and March in cold temperatures as opposed to July and August. Surprise! It's easier to do training runs when you're bundled up for a 10-degree day than when it's 80 and humid. I'm not going to make any plans right now, but I could see 18/55 in my future, provided I spend some time building my base in preparation.

In other words, the race itself was a huge fail, but I learned something valuable, gained good race experience, and I'm happy that I erred on the side of aggression instead of being more conservative.

Now all that's left to do is to drink the beer I bought yesterday and deposited in my hotel fridge. Before any of you #######s chime in, yes I know alcohol slows recovery. But it does wonders for one's attitude. That counts, right?

Also, I should add here that the FFA is awesome in general, but this thread in particular is a great place for thinking out loud / venting about this kind of stuff. Just typing all of this up was a useful way to gather my thoughts. Thanks guys.
Great attitude man.And you have plenty of time to recover...enjoy the brew before you get raptured up. :)

 
Race Report (Fargo Marathon, 5/21/11) -- Long and self-indulgent.

Cliffs notes: Went out too fast and crashed and burned. You guys could just about write up the rest of the report for me, because this is a pretty standard entry in the genre.

The weather forecast the night before the event was for heavy rain and thunderstorms along with winds. When I went to bed, I fully expected to fall back to my "B" goal of sub-4:00, which I did at Twin Cities last October. However, the actual weather on race day was way beter than advertised. No rain at all, overcast, low-60s, and while it was still pretty windy, the wind was out of the SE on a course that tends S for the first half and N for the second, so at least it would be a tailwind during the back half. I had been training with 3:50 as a time goal, which would be almost a 9 minute PR for me. I didn't feel like I was under any special pressure though, and I would have been cool with going out slower and repeating my TCM time. But then it occured to me that if this race wasn't that big a deal, then why not go out for 3:50 and if I fall apart at the end, hey this wasn't that big a deal right? Being unable to find any holes in this obviously impeccable logic, I lined up near then 3:50 pacer and away we went.

On a side note, this is kind of a funny event in the sense that the entire city of Fargo is pretty much preoccupied with it. This is their Boston, their Indianapolis 500, their Wimbeldon. I watched the local news the night before, and I think every story was somehow marathon-related. If you don't know the culture of the upper midwest, it's hard to describe just how earnest they are about this kind of stuff. It's really sweet.

Anyway, you guys know how this goes. The first several miles were stupid easy. To be honest, I started to notice things getting a little harder than I would have liked around the 10K mark, but I decided to give it a few more miles. Around Mile 9 or 10, it was clear that there was no way I was going to be able to hold this pace when the race got serious later on. You guys all know what I mean. If this was a 10-13 mile training run, holding an 8:47 pace would have been a good workout but no serious problem. But when I was running 9:09s in Twin Cities, it was still stupid easy at the halfway point, but became quite difficult during the last 10K. By Mile 10, 8:47 was doable but no longer "OMG I can go forever" easy, so I dialed it back to 4:00 pace.

Too late. I crossed the halfway mark at 1:56 and change, and I that point I was still sort of expecting to PR, but by Mile 16 I was having a tough time running 9:09, and the wheels finally came off at Mile 18 when I had to start mixing in some walking. The rest of the race was a bunch of miles in the 12-13 minute "deathmarch" category.

A few highlights of the deathmarch: The 4:00 group passed me during Mile 19, at which point I more or less checked out psychologically. I'm not going to voluntarily take a DNF obviously, but if this was R&R Vegas and the sweep bus was right behind the 4:00 pacer, I wouldn't have minded too much. Around Mile 20 I got passed by a slow chick who works in my building. Her son and my son are in the same grade and play on the same basketball team. Her husband and son had been along the course in several spots already cheering her on. She tapped me on the shoulder and said hi when she passed, which was a 100% friendly gesture. This is one of the nicest families you'll ever meet and I hope she met whatever time goal she was shooting for. (The website is down right now, so no results).

Around the 23.5 mile mark -- the details are a little fuzzy at this point -- I got passed by the 4:30 pace group. Okay, I said I had already mentally checked out of the race, but come on. A man has to have some standards. I passed them back pretty handily and death-shuffled the last couple of miles instead of walking, except for a late aid station. I thought I had a nice sized buffer for 4:30, but when I got to the 26 mile marker, I looked at my Garmin and saw that I only had a little over 90 seconds to spare if I wanted my time to read 4:29:xx. Not a huge deal since my time was really "Crash and Burn" anyway, but I dropped the hammer at the end (hammer? lol) and came in at 4:29:58 Garmin time. The 4:30 pacer must have missed his quota, because they were not within sight when I finished, and yes I know they didn't pass me back because I was keeping an eye out for them.

So. What to make of this? First of all, I am not the slightest bit disappointed or sad. I knew that 3:50 was an aggressive goal for me. It wasn't stupid like "Hey, lets knock 45 minutes of your PR and get a BQ" but it was on the aggressive side of what was reasonable. I don't feel foolish for trying and failing.

What it really came down to is the fact that I trained with a 3:50 goal in mind. If I'm not going to go for it when I get B+ conditions, the why the hell did I pick that goal? When I lined up, I was uncertain as to whether I could do this, but I really wanted to know: Given the genes my parents gave me and my training regimen, can I run a 3:50 marathon? I got my answer, and that's a valuable outcome.

Prosopis mentiond Pfitzinger's book above. There is a B&N literally right behing my hotel, so yesterday I picked up a copy and read it while sitting around. It is abundantly clear to me that I need more miles. I already suspected this from lurking at the RW forums. My training program had 5 runs of 18+ miles (18/20/20/22/22), but it maxed out at 42 mpw with four days per week throughou. What I learned today is that that just isn't enough if I want to improve. If I am content to have 4:00 be my top-end time in ideal conditions, then I can keep doing what I'm doing. I was hoping that a second marathon cycle in a 12-month period would improve my fitness enought to knock 10 minutes off my PR, but I try very hard to be honest with myself, and the fact is that my training for Fargo did not go appreciably better than my training for TCM, so race day magic was not enough to give me that improvement. Okay, my training went a little better, but that's because I was doing a bunch of long runs in February and March in cold temperatures as opposed to July and August. Surprise! It's easier to do training runs when you're bundled up for a 10-degree day than when it's 80 and humid. I'm not going to make any plans right now, but I could see 18/55 in my future, provided I spend some time building my base in preparation.

In other words, the race itself was a huge fail, but I learned something valuable, gained good race experience, and I'm happy that I erred on the side of aggression instead of being more conservative.

Now all that's left to do is to drink the beer I bought yesterday and deposited in my hotel fridge. Before any of you #######s chime in, yes I know alcohol slows recovery. But it does wonders for one's attitude. That counts, right?

Also, I should add here that the FFA is awesome in general, but this thread in particular is a great place for thinking out loud / venting about this kind of stuff. Just typing all of this up was a useful way to gather my thoughts. Thanks guys.
Great report, sorry to hear that you had troubles during the race. I don't think you can count anything as a fail if you learned something valuable during the experience. And if drinking a few beers helps make you feel better emotionally, then drink up, and have one for me.My next post will be about urine, you may want to skip it. :)

 

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