Ran a 10k in June (5 Viewers)

[Juxtatarot]

Distance PR for me today, 8.93 miles. If I had looked I would have done an extra lap around the neighborhood to make it an even 9

Was working on pacing and it really allowed me to go extra distance today, it was slow as molasses but I feel pretty good just general soreness. I read something yesterday from a training website that made me kinda stop in my tracks.

Pacing of long Runs

Run all of the long ones at least 2 minutes slower than you could run that distance that day. The walk breaks will help you to slow the pace, but you must run slower as well. You get the same endurance from the long one if you run slowly as you would if you run fast. However, you'll recover much faster from a slow long run.

I know you guys have been telling me that all along but for some reason this kinda hit me over the head. Came from Jeff Galloway http://www.jeffgalloway.com/training/long_run.html

Congrats on the distance PR! I disagree with that statement from Galloway. If you ran that 9 in too high of a HR zone (i.e. faster pace) you absolutely would not get the same endurance benefits as you would at a solid aerobic state (<75% max HR). This is a major mistake a lot of people make, myself included. It took me a good year to really get it (thanks to BnB constantly beating it into my head).

And, on the flipside, if you run your long runs too slow (well down in "recovery pace" heart rate) you won't get the same benefits, right? (I personally think I made this misktake in 2011 training.)I think Galloway is just making an overly simplistic statement that would help beginners who aren't HR training. In that context, it makes sense.

 

[comfortably numb]

Hey, guys. Just wanted to say that I loved the trail run last night! Broke out the Brooks Cascadias and the Nathan HPL #020 hydration pack (both for the first time) and ran almost 18 miles at 9:17/mile, which I'm told is a pretty solid effort on that course. Ran the flats and the downhills and power hiked the steeper uphills. Felt strong pretty much the whole way.It's a 60-minute drive each way, so it's really only worth it if I'm gonna run at least 3 hours, but I plan on getting down there at least every other week for a long run. Next planned trip is Saturday, June 23. Already excited!

Trail runs are so awesome.Good job

 

[Ned]

Distance PR for me today, 8.93 miles. If I had looked I would have done an extra lap around the neighborhood to make it an even 9

Was working on pacing and it really allowed me to go extra distance today, it was slow as molasses but I feel pretty good just general soreness. I read something yesterday from a training website that made me kinda stop in my tracks.

Pacing of long Runs

Run all of the long ones at least 2 minutes slower than you could run that distance that day. The walk breaks will help you to slow the pace, but you must run slower as well. You get the same endurance from the long one if you run slowly as you would if you run fast. However, you'll recover much faster from a slow long run.

I know you guys have been telling me that all along but for some reason this kinda hit me over the head. Came from Jeff Galloway http://www.jeffgalloway.com/training/long_run.html

Congrats on the distance PR! I disagree with that statement from Galloway. If you ran that 9 in too high of a HR zone (i.e. faster pace) you absolutely would not get the same endurance benefits as you would at a solid aerobic state (<75% max HR). This is a major mistake a lot of people make, myself included. It took me a good year to really get it (thanks to BnB constantly beating it into my head).

And, on the flipside, if you run your long runs too slow (well down in "recovery pace" heart rate) you won't get the same benefits, right? (I personally think I made this misktake in 2011 training.)I think Galloway is just making an overly simplistic statement that would help beginners who aren't HR training. In that context, it makes sense.

To be honest, I never thought about it much. But, I guess that all depends on who we're talking about. For a beginner, I don't think you can go too slow since (in theory) they're working on little to no base fitness to begin with. For a seasoned marathoner trying to get max performance, I'd agree if they weren't doing any MP work. If they were doing sufficient MP work, I'd still think it'd be alright to be on the slow end of the aerobic zone. I'd love to know what tri, BnB, etc think on this. Interesting....

 

[comfortably numb]

Just got back from 3m

8.48

9.03

8.48

(3) 26.36

Went to dentist today, congratulated him on his 3.21 Boston Marathon finish.

He said it was brutal, said a friend of his who is a better runner just stopped at Boyleston Rd?? Close to finish? Medics and wife came over, he wouldn't leave the course, he just couldn't move 30 minutes later he ended up walking to finish line.

Said people were just ripping off their bibs during the race.

Stay safe if in the summer and don't let your lows get you too low.

 

[beer 302]

beer302: Congrat's on the PR! Those runs SHOULD feel turtle like. I still highly recommend you go to Runner's World Smart Coach to download a training program. It will give you the speed that you should be training for every run. You still are likely running them too fast.

Thanks, this was the last run before I start a training program next week for a HM. Just wanted to put that to the test. Might go out on Saturday for 3-4 miles just to get some work in. Runner's World is where I'm getting the training program from. Buddy of mine shared that Jeff Galloway link with me yesterday, just thought it was interesting theory.

 

[Sean]

nice work everyone.

Set out to do 10 x 400 intervals yesterday. Turned into 11x400 as I miscounted in my head and started an extra interval when I should have been doing my cool down. I don't have the garmin data in front of me but I ran definitely ran the first few too fast for me. Going by memory it was basically

1mi warmup ~ 9:30

1:26

1:26

1:28

1:34

1:34

1:34

1:34

1:35

1:34

1:35

1:36

1mi cool down ~9:30

 

[goldenchild]

Just got back from 3m8.489.038.48(3) 26.36

Good job! I would be perfectly content with that performance for my 5k coming up on Saturday.

 

[pigskinliquors]

Sean: great speed workout!! What are your rests between those as I've never done 400 repeats unless they were part of a ladder?

Numb: way to get your three in!

___________________

Back and legs is done. I PR'd (on many significantly) on every lift (back) and survived all squats/lunges (legs). I have zero explanation for the sudden gain in strength. I should have been tired from yesterday, and I'm on the final week of 4 hard weeks straight (I step back every 5th week). I'll take it, but I sure wish I knew why it happened. I looked at my last three "4th weeks" and none of them had any significant gains I'm Shuked.

 

[2Young2BBald]

___________________Back and legs is done. I PR'd (on many significantly) on every lift (back) and survived all squats/lunges (legs). I have zero explanation for the sudden gain in strength. I should have been tired from yesterday, and I'm on the final week of 4 hard weeks straight (I step back every 5th week). I'll take it, but I sure wish I knew why it happened. I looked at my last three "4th weeks" and none of them had any significant gains I'm Shuked.

Say your other post on the Cross Fit Workout. First off, damn that sounds miserable and a very fun way. They do this next to the ball diamond I coach my son at at I am dying to give it a try (but have zero time to do so). Got question, why are you doing the running parts? Not to be a Fun Governor, but aren't you worried about doing damage and couldn't you find something else Cross Fit to do while the group runs.

 

[Sean]

Sean: great speed workout!! What are your rests between those as I've never done 400 repeats unless they were part of a ladder?

90 seconds rest. Not sure if this is too long?btw you are in beast mode with the crossfit / p90x. I need to start mixing in some of that stuff as well.

 

[pigskinliquors]

Not to be a Fun Governor, but aren't you worried about doing damage and couldn't you find something else Cross Fit to do while the group runs.

The great news is that I really can't do any additional damage. The labrum is fully torn and the cartilage is gone. It's all about how much pain I can handle. Thus far, running short distances, with breaks has not hurt it like going out for a 5 mile run. It has me wondering if I can't figure out a way to run with a shuffle-type gait to get back to doing some tri's Yesterday's workout was the first time I've really pushed it since September. I do have some pain today, and likley can't do those types of workouts more than once a week. Still, I'd love to find a way to at least do another Oly.

90 seconds rest. Not sure if this is too long?btw you are in beast mode with the crossfit / p90x. I need to start mixing in some of that stuff as well.

90 seconds seems long, but I'll defer to TriMan and Grue. I typically have done half the distance of each interval for recovery = I'd likely do 200's at a jog to recover. Regardless, getting 10 in is bueno! I can't recommend crossfit enough, and P90 has changed my outlook on exercise.

 

[gruecd]

90 seconds rest. Not sure if this is too long?btw you are in beast mode with the crossfit / p90x. I need to start mixing in some of that stuff as well.

90 seconds seems long, but I'll defer to TriMan and Grue. I typically have done half the distance of each interval for recovery = I'd likely do 200's at a jog to recover. Regardless, getting 10 in is bueno! I can't recommend crossfit enough, and P90 has changed my outlook on exercise.

Pfitz says 50-90% of the time it takes to do the interval, so if you're running the 400s at 1:35ish, you're not too far off at 90 seconds. That being said, I tend to lean towards the shorter end of that range for shorter intervals and the longer end for longer intervals. For 400s, I'd maybe jog 200M recovery at 8:30-9:00 pace (about 60 seconds per jog).

 

[AcerFC]

I have 60 seconds rest between my 400s and feel like they are perfect. I usually am between 1:32 and 1:39

Where does one even find out if they have trails by them.

 

[Sean]

thanks guys. I typically jog the 90 sec at around a 9:30 pace. I'll try shortening up the rest next time.

gruecd - you still racing this weekend? how is your mindset?

 

[MAC_32]

Easy 4 miles today. And I got it done in 27 mins. Was not breathing heavy when I finished and legs definitely had more juice in them. To run this time a month ago I'd have needed 10 mins laying on the deck, a cold towel, and a liter of water afterwards. Today, I went right in and got my weights done. This is definitely working. Going to do an intense 5 miles tomorrow...

 

[tri-man 47]

I have 60 seconds rest between my 400s and feel like they are perfect. I usually am between 1:32 and 1:39Where does one even find out if they have trails by them.

I do 60 seconds rest as well - it's a fast turnaround, but I feel that's good. In a way, it keeps me from going too fast on the reps. I've been doing my 400s at around :89-:90. Trails? Google maps will often show a light trail line, so if you suspect an area has some, check that. Or ..call a local store and see if someone can recommend something. With a 90 degree weekend ahead, I do believe I'll head to some true trails myself this weekend and run in the shade.

 

[gruecd]

Easy 4 miles today. And I got it done in 27 mins. Was not breathing heavy when I finished and legs definitely had more juice in them. To run this time a month ago I'd have needed 10 mins laying on the deck, a cold towel, and a liter of water afterwards. Today, I went right in and got my weights done. This is definitely working. Going to do an intense 5 miles tomorrow...

I hate to tell you, but unless you're a 15-minute 5K guy, four miles in 27 minutes is not easy. I apologize in advance for the tough love, but if you keep running back-to-back hard days like this, you're going to have no one but yourself to blame when you wind up injured.

 

[gruecd]

gruecd - you still racing this weekend? how is your mindset?

I'm still running the half, yes. My mindset? I don't know....somewhere between "I don't know what to expect" and "I don't give a ####," I guess. Legs are still sore from Tuesday night's trail run, I haven't done any speedwork in forever, and I've got at least a 5-hour drive tomorrow to get there. PR probably isn't in the works. I ran 1:29:04 at Houston in January, so hopefully I can at least do better than that. Just not in the right place mentally to race right now; when the going gets tough, I don't care enough right now to push through the pain. It's discouraging.On a positive note, I find myself really looking forward to going back to the trail next weekend. Maybe I just need a little mental reset. Hoping the time alone in the woods might help with that.

 

[pigskinliquors]

Easy 4 miles today. And I got it done in 27 mins. Was not breathing heavy when I finished and legs definitely had more juice in them. To run this time a month ago I'd have needed 10 mins laying on the deck, a cold towel, and a liter of water afterwards. Today, I went right in and got my weights done. This is definitely working. Going to do an intense 5 miles tomorrow...

I hate to tell you, but unless you're a 15-minute 5K guy, four miles in 27 minutes is not easy. I apologize in advance for the tough love, but if you keep running back-to-back hard days like this, you're going to have no one but yourself to blame when you wind up injured.

Go to Runner's World Smart Coach and find out what pace you should be running. You are still racing all your miles albeit at a slightly slower pace.

On a positive note, I find myself really looking forward to going back to the trail next weekend. Maybe I just need a little mental reset. Hoping the time alone in the woods might help with that.

Let's just focus on the positive. The woods rock.

 

[prosopis]

Damn, miss a day or two here and the thread is booming. I am plugging along on the treadmill at the gym. My right foot has gotten really bad with the plantars fascitis. I can hardly walk on it some days. As bad as it hurts I can and do still run. I did 5 miles yesterday. I have been googling info and I am going to try taping it for more support. I am also doing a lot of icing. It really sucks to have a hurting foot. I may attempt a long road run Saturday morning real early to avoid the 100+ temps.

 

[Sand]

Back in the saddle. Took a few days off after the races this weekend (calves were very sore and work has been madness). 26 miles ridden tonight averaging 21mph. Garmin died, but I hung with the fast group and averaged 200watts or so. They made it hurt - so a good ride. Tomorrow hopefully a run and a swim.

Also, I just realized that last weekend I equaled my yearly swim yardage from last year. At the start of June I hit 150,000yds for the year. And no I won't hit 300k for the year. The will be lots of resting on laurels.

 

[2Young2BBald]

Not to be a Fun Governor, but aren't you worried about doing damage and couldn't you find something else Cross Fit to do while the group runs.

The great news is that I really can't do any additional damage. The labrum is fully torn and the cartilage is gone. It's all about how much pain I can handle. Thus far, running short distances, with breaks has not hurt it like going out for a 5 mile run. It has me wondering if I can't figure out a way to run with a shuffle-type gait to get back to doing some tri's Yesterday's workout was the first time I've really pushed it since September. I do have some pain today, and likley can't do those types of workouts more than once a week. Still, I'd love to find a way to at least do another Oly.

Awesome attitude. The kind that would make most doctors and "normal" people cringe, but something I(we) all get. Seems like finding an Oly with a two-loop run course would be best. Mentally, you'd never be more than a mile and a half from home.

 

[comfortably numb]

Easy 4 miles today. And I got it done in 27 mins. Was not breathing heavy when I finished and legs definitely had more juice in them. To run this time a month ago I'd have needed 10 mins laying on the deck, a cold towel, and a liter of water afterwards. Today, I went right in and got my weights done. This is definitely working. Going to do an intense 5 miles tomorrow...

I hate to tell you, but unless you're a 15-minute 5K guy, four miles in 27 minutes is not easy. I apologize in advance for the tough love, but if you keep running back-to-back hard days like this, you're going to have no one but yourself to blame when you wind up injured.

I don't know one way or the other, but this is the kinda advice that makes this thread invaluable. Getting injured is the worst possible thing IMO, avoiding putting yourself at risk from people who know is priceless

 

[2Young2BBald]

Trails? Google maps will often show a light trail line, so if you suspect an area has some, check that. Or ..call a local store and see if someone can recommend something. With a 90 degree weekend ahead, I do believe I'll head to some true trails myself this weekend and run in the shade.

You might be able to find something over on No Pavement Whenever I am going out of town and need something (pool, place to run, race info), I hit up the state specific forums over at Beginner Triathlete I've never been let down. Just post a simple thread stating I live near XXX and want to start running trails. I just answered a question just like this, this week in the Michigan thread. Don't worry about not being a triathlete, other than to worry that they'll recruit you to the dark side of triathlon.

 

[Ned]

Trails? Google maps will often show a light trail line, so if you suspect an area has some, check that. Or ..call a local store and see if someone can recommend something. With a 90 degree weekend ahead, I do believe I'll head to some true trails myself this weekend and run in the shade.

You might be able to find something over on No Pavement Whenever I am going out of town and need something (pool, place to run, race info), I hit up the state specific forums over at Beginner Triathlete I've never been let down. Just post a simple thread stating I live near XXX and want to start running trails. I just answered a question just like this, this week in the Michigan thread. Don't worry about not being a triathlete, other than to worry that they'll recruit you to the dark side of triathlon.

Google for state parks nearby also. Our state parks have a fantastic setup.

 

[Ned]

gruecd - you still racing this weekend? how is your mindset?

I'm still running the half, yes. My mindset? I don't know....somewhere between "I don't know what to expect" and "I don't give a ####," I guess. Legs are still sore from Tuesday night's trail run, I haven't done any speedwork in forever, and I've got at least a 5-hour drive tomorrow to get there. PR probably isn't in the works. I ran 1:29:04 at Houston in January, so hopefully I can at least do better than that. Just not in the right place mentally to race right now; when the going gets tough, I don't care enough right now to push through the pain. It's discouraging.

On a positive note, I find myself really looking forward to going back to the trail next weekend. Maybe I just need a little mental reset. Hoping the time alone in the woods might help with that.

I know exactly what you mean. I was just there last weekend. Just go have fun and forget about the clock. This is supposed to be fun, right?I remember a certain someone <cough>you</cough> basically saying he'll always be a roadie. Seeing the bolded from you is friggin' awesome. Focusing on learning trail running may just be the right medicine to snap out of the funk.

I wouldn't bee too worried about the soreness from the trail run. You probably used little stabilizer muscles that you haven't used in quite a while. If any sections of the trail were technical at all, you were doing a lot of side stepping, jumping, etc. That's a totally different movement compared to running on the road.

 

[MAC_32]

Easy 4 miles today. And I got it done in 27 mins. Was not breathing heavy when I finished and legs definitely had more juice in them. To run this time a month ago I'd have needed 10 mins laying on the deck, a cold towel, and a liter of water afterwards. Today, I went right in and got my weights done. This is definitely working. Going to do an intense 5 miles tomorrow...

I hate to tell you, but unless you're a 15-minute 5K guy, four miles in 27 minutes is not easy. I apologize in advance for the tough love, but if you keep running back-to-back hard days like this, you're going to have no one but yourself to blame when you wind up injured.

Well, I have increased my goals to sub 18? It was the day after an off day, probably one reason why it felt so easy. I started off slow, legs were tight, hit a downhill at about 3/4 mile, loosened up and just started cruising. Didn't even notice how quickly I was moving until I got to the mile 3 turn and I was only 21 mins into my run.

 

[gruecd]

Easy 4 miles today. And I got it done in 27 mins. Was not breathing heavy when I finished and legs definitely had more juice in them. To run this time a month ago I'd have needed 10 mins laying on the deck, a cold towel, and a liter of water afterwards. Today, I went right in and got my weights done. This is definitely working. Going to do an intense 5 miles tomorrow...

I hate to tell you, but unless you're a 15-minute 5K guy, four miles in 27 minutes is not easy. I apologize in advance for the tough love, but if you keep running back-to-back hard days like this, you're going to have no one but yourself to blame when you wind up injured.

Well, I have increased my goals to sub 18? It was the day after an off day, probably one reason why it felt so easy. I started off slow, legs were tight, hit a downhill at about 3/4 mile, loosened up and just started cruising. Didn't even notice how quickly I was moving until I got to the mile 3 turn and I was only 21 mins into my run.

You're not going to listen anyway. Do what you wanna do. Just don't say we didn't warn you.

 

[beer 302]

Damn, miss a day or two here and the thread is booming. I am plugging along on the treadmill at the gym. My right foot has gotten really bad with the plantars fascitis. I can hardly walk on it some days. As bad as it hurts I can and do still run. I did 5 miles yesterday. I have been googling info and I am going to try taping it for more support. I am also doing a lot of icing. It really sucks to have a hurting foot. I may attempt a long road run Saturday morning real early to avoid the 100+ temps.

I struggled with this a few years ago, got to the point where it took a good 5 minutes getting out of bed in the morning because it hurt so bad to put pressure on my feet. Finally went to a foot doc and he put me on some low dose anti-inflammatories. They helped some but it was still hurting way too bad. Tried some off-the-shelf orthotics which also helped some but again there was still a lot of pain. My break came when I went to see a rheumotoligist and he diagnosed me with psoriatic arthritis which can manifest itself very similar to plantar fascitis. He got me on some good anti-inflammatories (Piroxicam is the generic, Feldene is the actual drug) and I take a shot of Enbrel every week. Haven't had a problem since. I don't know that you need to go this route but the key to dealing with this is rest & anti-inflammatories. There are lots of natural remedies to help with the anti-inflammatory aspect if you want to pursue those instead of a doc but that's what has worked for me.Got a little runner's high yesterday without going out for a run. Got two new headlamps to try out and my new pair of NB MR1080's showed up

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Easy 4 miles today. And I got it done in 27 mins. Was not breathing heavy when I finished and legs definitely had more juice in them. To run this time a month ago I'd have needed 10 mins laying on the deck, a cold towel, and a liter of water afterwards. Today, I went right in and got my weights done. This is definitely working. Going to do an intense 5 miles tomorrow...

I hate to tell you, but unless you're a 15-minute 5K guy, four miles in 27 minutes is not easy. I apologize in advance for the tough love, but if you keep running back-to-back hard days like this, you're going to have no one but yourself to blame when you wind up injured.

I don't know one way or the other, but this is the kinda advice that makes this thread invaluable. Getting injured is the worst possible thing IMO, avoiding putting yourself at risk from people who know is priceless

People in this thread do a really good job of spotting training errors and pointing them out. We all need that from time to time.

prosopis -- Sorry to hear the foot isn't getting better. Good luck. I've never had PF, but I know it tends to linger for a long time.

gruecd -- Like Ned said, maybe you just need a change of scenery and something different to mix things up. You've had a rotten racing season so far thanks to weather issues that are totally outside of your control. Knowing how seriously you approach these things, that probably bothers you a lot. Hopefully some trail running while help you get your spark back so that when you finally catch some good temperatures in the fall you'll be mentally ready to take out your frustrations on some unfortunate road race.

sean -- FWIW, I do the exact same thing that PSL does for intervals (jog half the length of the interval as recovery). Theoretically it would be a little better to go by time, but "half the distance" works out to the same general ballpark and is a little easier when you're on a marked track.

_____________________

Week 2 of 18/55 has me doing 8 GA miles with 10x100 today, but instead I'm running a local 10K later tonight. I'm hoping for sub-47 which would be a PR, but I'm not sure if that's going to happen or not; it should still be about 80 at the start. My 10K PR is soft as hell, but that's mainly because this is the only regular 10K nearby, and it's always in mid-June so you never get good conditions for it.

 

[jb1020]

Easy 4 miles today. And I got it done in 27 mins. Was not breathing heavy when I finished and legs definitely had more juice in them. To run this time a month ago I'd have needed 10 mins laying on the deck, a cold towel, and a liter of water afterwards. Today, I went right in and got my weights done. This is definitely working. Going to do an intense 5 miles tomorrow...

I hate to tell you, but unless you're a 15-minute 5K guy, four miles in 27 minutes is not easy. I apologize in advance for the tough love, but if you keep running back-to-back hard days like this, you're going to have no one but yourself to blame when you wind up injured.

I don't know one way or the other, but this is the kinda advice that makes this thread invaluable. Getting injured is the worst possible thing IMO, avoiding putting yourself at risk from people who know is priceless

People in this thread do a really good job of spotting training errors and pointing them out. We all need that from time to time.

You can flip back 200 pages or so when I first jumped in the thread. I wasn't running nearly as fast as you, but the theory was all the same. If I ran 3 miles on Tuesday at a 9:15 pace, I would literally try and beat that pace a day or so later. It would go well for about 2 weeks at a time, then I'd get some shooting pain in my foot/heel/knee. I did this for about 4 months, before really paying attention to the advice the guys dished out in here. To each his own, just throwing out my experience.

 

[comfortably numb]

Easy 4 miles today. And I got it done in 27 mins. Was not breathing heavy when I finished and legs definitely had more juice in them. To run this time a month ago I'd have needed 10 mins laying on the deck, a cold towel, and a liter of water afterwards. Today, I went right in and got my weights done. This is definitely working. Going to do an intense 5 miles tomorrow...

I hate to tell you, but unless you're a 15-minute 5K guy, four miles in 27 minutes is not easy. I apologize in advance for the tough love, but if you keep running back-to-back hard days like this, you're going to have no one but yourself to blame when you wind up injured.

I don't know one way or the other, but this is the kinda advice that makes this thread invaluable. Getting injured is the worst possible thing IMO, avoiding putting yourself at risk from people who know is priceless

People in this thread do a really good job of spotting training errors and pointing them out. We all need that from time to time.

Yea, I do most my talking with Ned on IM and such, while I have had a couple of brushes with some injuries, nothing too major, I know on my own I would probably have hurt myself badly pushing myself to a limit I didn't need to be at just out of ignorance thinking I was doing good.

 

[comfortably numb]

Easy 4 miles today. And I got it done in 27 mins. Was not breathing heavy when I finished and legs definitely had more juice in them. To run this time a month ago I'd have needed 10 mins laying on the deck, a cold towel, and a liter of water afterwards. Today, I went right in and got my weights done. This is definitely working. Going to do an intense 5 miles tomorrow...

I hate to tell you, but unless you're a 15-minute 5K guy, four miles in 27 minutes is not easy. I apologize in advance for the tough love, but if you keep running back-to-back hard days like this, you're going to have no one but yourself to blame when you wind up injured.

I don't know one way or the other, but this is the kinda advice that makes this thread invaluable. Getting injured is the worst possible thing IMO, avoiding putting yourself at risk from people who know is priceless

People in this thread do a really good job of spotting training errors and pointing them out. We all need that from time to time.

You can flip back 200 pages or so when I first jumped in the thread. I wasn't running nearly as fast as you, but the theory was all the same. If I ran 3 miles on Tuesday at a 9:15 pace, I would literally try and beat that pace a day or so later. It would go well for about 2 weeks at a time, then I'd get some shooting pain in my foot/heel/knee. I did this for about 4 months, before really paying attention to the advice the guys dished out in here. To each his own, just throwing out my experience.

Exactly, honestly, if not for Ned, I would have done the same exact thing.Never would I have thought on my own to actually SLOW down to eventually get faster.I would have just thought the natural progression would be you should always be pushing to get faster...by you know, going faster.that to me was key in staying long term.I could easily have seen myself fizzle out after a month or 2 if I burnt myself out with an injury or 2 and give up running all together.

 

[MAC_32]

Easy 4 miles today. And I got it done in 27 mins. Was not breathing heavy when I finished and legs definitely had more juice in them. To run this time a month ago I'd have needed 10 mins laying on the deck, a cold towel, and a liter of water afterwards. Today, I went right in and got my weights done. This is definitely working. Going to do an intense 5 miles tomorrow...

I hate to tell you, but unless you're a 15-minute 5K guy, four miles in 27 minutes is not easy. I apologize in advance for the tough love, but if you keep running back-to-back hard days like this, you're going to have no one but yourself to blame when you wind up injured.

Well, I have increased my goals to sub 18? It was the day after an off day, probably one reason why it felt so easy. I started off slow, legs were tight, hit a downhill at about 3/4 mile, loosened up and just started cruising. Didn't even notice how quickly I was moving until I got to the mile 3 turn and I was only 21 mins into my run.

You're not going to listen anyway. Do what you wanna do. Just don't say we didn't warn you.

I wouldn't say that, I've been trying. Went out like I had my other recent pace runs - easy breathing, easy trot, not pushing the legs, about a mile or so in once loosened up hit cruising speed, then coast. Get done without breathing heavy and feel like my legs have more in them. My cruising speed had been about 7:30 miles, yesterday it was a lot faster. But my legs felt the same as other pace runs, my heart rate never spiked, and my recovery was quick and easy. I adjusted my approach a few weeks ago to include more easy runs, this was my schedule for the weekMonday - easy 5 miles (completed in 38 mins)Tuesday - 4 mile sprint interval workout (death)Wednesday - offThursday - easy 4 miles (surprisingly completed in 27 mins)Today - timed 5 miler (plan to go all out)Saturday - recovery run, 3 mile trot before the gym (prob 22-23 mins or so because I expect to be sore after today's run)Sunday - long run, 9 miles (no goal time in mind)

 

[jb1020]

Easy 4 miles today. And I got it done in 27 mins. Was not breathing heavy when I finished and legs definitely had more juice in them. To run this time a month ago I'd have needed 10 mins laying on the deck, a cold towel, and a liter of water afterwards. Today, I went right in and got my weights done. This is definitely working. Going to do an intense 5 miles tomorrow...

I hate to tell you, but unless you're a 15-minute 5K guy, four miles in 27 minutes is not easy. I apologize in advance for the tough love, but if you keep running back-to-back hard days like this, you're going to have no one but yourself to blame when you wind up injured.

I don't know one way or the other, but this is the kinda advice that makes this thread invaluable. Getting injured is the worst possible thing IMO, avoiding putting yourself at risk from people who know is priceless

People in this thread do a really good job of spotting training errors and pointing them out. We all need that from time to time.

You can flip back 200 pages or so when I first jumped in the thread. I wasn't running nearly as fast as you, but the theory was all the same. If I ran 3 miles on Tuesday at a 9:15 pace, I would literally try and beat that pace a day or so later. It would go well for about 2 weeks at a time, then I'd get some shooting pain in my foot/heel/knee. I did this for about 4 months, before really paying attention to the advice the guys dished out in here. To each his own, just throwing out my experience.

Exactly, honestly, if not for Ned, I would have done the same exact thing.Never would I have thought on my own to actually SLOW down to eventually get faster.I would have just thought the natural progression would be you should always be pushing to get faster...by you know, going faster.that to me was key in staying long term.I could easily have seen myself fizzle out after a month or 2 if I burnt myself out with an injury or 2 and give up running all together.

I think I kept telling everyone in here that I just wasn't pushing myself in my runs....

 

[sho nuff]

Easy 4 miles today. And I got it done in 27 mins. Was not breathing heavy when I finished and legs definitely had more juice in them. To run this time a month ago I'd have needed 10 mins laying on the deck, a cold towel, and a liter of water afterwards. Today, I went right in and got my weights done. This is definitely working. Going to do an intense 5 miles tomorrow...

I hate to tell you, but unless you're a 15-minute 5K guy, four miles in 27 minutes is not easy. I apologize in advance for the tough love, but if you keep running back-to-back hard days like this, you're going to have no one but yourself to blame when you wind up injured.

Well, I have increased my goals to sub 18? It was the day after an off day, probably one reason why it felt so easy. I started off slow, legs were tight, hit a downhill at about 3/4 mile, loosened up and just started cruising. Didn't even notice how quickly I was moving until I got to the mile 3 turn and I was only 21 mins into my run.

You're not going to listen anyway. Do what you wanna do. Just don't say we didn't warn you.

I wouldn't say that, I've been trying. Went out like I had my other recent pace runs - easy breathing, easy trot, not pushing the legs, about a mile or so in once loosened up hit cruising speed, then coast. Get done without breathing heavy and feel like my legs have more in them. My cruising speed had been about 7:30 miles, yesterday it was a lot faster. But my legs felt the same as other pace runs, my heart rate never spiked, and my recovery was quick and easy. I adjusted my approach a few weeks ago to include more easy runs, this was my schedule for the weekMonday - easy 5 miles (completed in 38 mins)Tuesday - 4 mile sprint interval workout (death)Wednesday - offThursday - easy 4 miles (surprisingly completed in 27 mins)Today - timed 5 miler (plan to go all out)Saturday - recovery run, 3 mile trot before the gym (prob 22-23 mins or so because I expect to be sore after today's run)Sunday - long run, 9 miles (no goal time in mind)

Your monday time seems more like it for an "easy" run for you.Not sure why you want to do sprint intervals on Tuesday and all out on a Friday though.

 

[sho nuff]

I too was doing too much "speed" work.

On top of that, my GA runs or the GA portions of tempo runs were about 45 seconds per mile too fast.

I got much better results when I slowed down my GA runs and long runs...my tempos and intervals got faster when I did this as well.

The faster parts became easier by making the easy parts easier and build a good mileage base on slower miles.

Now if Ned will ever convert me to really training by HR...

Im kind of half assing the HR data right now. I like having it...I can generally tell about where my HR is during most runs and I know when I see most of it when I need to slow it down. Just not yet letting it guide all of my training. Stubborn that way I guess.

 

[MAC_32]

Not sure why you want to do sprint intervals on Tuesday and all out on a Friday though.

Several suggested 2-3 hard days per week So I adjusted my regimen to one sprint-interval workout, one timed race, and one long run - never on consecutive days. I push the first two to the limit and just listen to my body on the long run. So far I've done 7 miles in 53 mins and 8 miles in just over an hour, thinking I'll probably knock 9 out in an hour 10 but like the last 2 I'm not running for time. I didn't go out yesterday with the intent to break any land-speed records, I went out with the same mindset as Monday and my breathing, HR, and wear on my legs felt the same. I was just moving faster.

 

[tri-man 47]

MAC - if you're looking to race sub-18:00 (so 5:45/mile'ish goal?), then some 6:45 tempo runs aren't unreasonable. As you know, you just shouldn't do all your work at the fast pacing. eta: Rule of thumb is two 'breakthrough' workouts per week.

prosopis - be careful with that foot. Don't let this thread make you feel pressured to keep pushing. If you need a month of rest, you can cross-train with some strength and core work.

gruecd - when you're done with your trip to mamby-pamby land and ready to HTFU again, let us know. Seriously, you probably could use a break from hard, goal-driven races. Maybe do something different. Start at the back of the HM pack and have fun passing everybody. Or ..find a trail race to target for later in the summer/early fall. Maybe a trail focus for a few months will sharpen you back up. Life will get back to normal; be patient with it!

goldencorral and other weekend racers - do well!!!

--

12 x 400m this morning. Popped the last one at :85.

The CARA race circuit points are up-to-date, and I'm firmly in fourth. The only good news is that in comparing progress with the three speedsters in front of me, from the first, April 5K to the most recent 5K (hotter, and more rolling terrain), they slipped 17 seconds on average, while I improved by 19 seconds. But barring injury to one of them, I won't catch them. I'll do the circuit's 5 mile race next week with Jux, then do the 10 mile trail race a month later, and then probably just switch to other, smaller races.

 

[Ned]

Easy 4 miles today. And I got it done in 27 mins. Was not breathing heavy when I finished and legs definitely had more juice in them. To run this time a month ago I'd have needed 10 mins laying on the deck, a cold towel, and a liter of water afterwards. Today, I went right in and got my weights done. This is definitely working. Going to do an intense 5 miles tomorrow...

I hate to tell you, but unless you're a 15-minute 5K guy, four miles in 27 minutes is not easy. I apologize in advance for the tough love, but if you keep running back-to-back hard days like this, you're going to have no one but yourself to blame when you wind up injured.

Well, I have increased my goals to sub 18? It was the day after an off day, probably one reason why it felt so easy. I started off slow, legs were tight, hit a downhill at about 3/4 mile, loosened up and just started cruising. Didn't even notice how quickly I was moving until I got to the mile 3 turn and I was only 21 mins into my run.

You're not going to listen anyway. Do what you wanna do. Just don't say we didn't warn you.

I wouldn't say that, I've been trying. Went out like I had my other recent pace runs - easy breathing, easy trot, not pushing the legs, about a mile or so in once loosened up hit cruising speed, then coast. Get done without breathing heavy and feel like my legs have more in them. My cruising speed had been about 7:30 miles, yesterday it was a lot faster. But my legs felt the same as other pace runs, my heart rate never spiked, and my recovery was quick and easy. I adjusted my approach a few weeks ago to include more easy runs, this was my schedule for the weekMonday - easy 5 miles (completed in 38 mins)Tuesday - 4 mile sprint interval workout (death)Wednesday - offThursday - easy 4 miles (surprisingly completed in 27 mins)Today - timed 5 miler (plan to go all out)Saturday - recovery run, 3 mile trot before the gym (prob 22-23 mins or so because I expect to be sore after today's run)Sunday - long run, 9 miles (no goal time in mind)

BnB says it best. Run your fast runs fast, slow runs slow. Nothing in between. Those 'easy' runs are in no man's land and is hampering your ability to put in quality work when its time for one of the core workouts. The core runs are going to be long run, speed/intervals, and tempo/fartlek. Everything else in between should be total rest or recovery runs.If you take a look at Tuesday, you have "death". I'd bet good $ part of the reason for that was that you weren't fully recovered from your Sunday long run since you ran a 5 miler at a decent pace on Monday. That 5 probably felt "easy", but in all reality that should've been a recovery run at an 8:30ish pace (not 7:36).I think you have the right idea for the schedule, you just need some tweaking. I'd change Monday & Thursday to a recovery run @ 8:30. The Friday timed 5 miler at race pace is OK, but I wouldn't make that a weekly habit. Mix in a tempo run on Friday's where you do a 1-2mi warm up, then 3-6mi at HM pace (probably 6:30ish for you), then a 1-2mi cool down. Your Sunday long run should have a goal time in mind - 72 minutes give or take.

 

[Ned]

I too was doing too much "speed" work. On top of that, my GA runs or the GA portions of tempo runs were about 45 seconds per mile too fast.I got much better results when I slowed down my GA runs and long runs...my tempos and intervals got faster when I did this as well.The faster parts became easier by making the easy parts easier and build a good mileage base on slower miles.Now if Ned will ever convert me to really training by HR...Im kind of half assing the HR data right now. I like having it...I can generally tell about where my HR is during most runs and I know when I see most of it when I need to slow it down. Just not yet letting it guide all of my training. Stubborn that way I guess.

Reverend HR is here for you whenever you're ready to commit to it, son.

 

[MAC_32]

Easy 4 miles today. And I got it done in 27 mins. Was not breathing heavy when I finished and legs definitely had more juice in them. To run this time a month ago I'd have needed 10 mins laying on the deck, a cold towel, and a liter of water afterwards. Today, I went right in and got my weights done. This is definitely working. Going to do an intense 5 miles tomorrow...

I hate to tell you, but unless you're a 15-minute 5K guy, four miles in 27 minutes is not easy. I apologize in advance for the tough love, but if you keep running back-to-back hard days like this, you're going to have no one but yourself to blame when you wind up injured.

Well, I have increased my goals to sub 18? It was the day after an off day, probably one reason why it felt so easy. I started off slow, legs were tight, hit a downhill at about 3/4 mile, loosened up and just started cruising. Didn't even notice how quickly I was moving until I got to the mile 3 turn and I was only 21 mins into my run.

You're not going to listen anyway. Do what you wanna do. Just don't say we didn't warn you.

I wouldn't say that, I've been trying. Went out like I had my other recent pace runs - easy breathing, easy trot, not pushing the legs, about a mile or so in once loosened up hit cruising speed, then coast. Get done without breathing heavy and feel like my legs have more in them. My cruising speed had been about 7:30 miles, yesterday it was a lot faster. But my legs felt the same as other pace runs, my heart rate never spiked, and my recovery was quick and easy. I adjusted my approach a few weeks ago to include more easy runs, this was my schedule for the weekMonday - easy 5 miles (completed in 38 mins)Tuesday - 4 mile sprint interval workout (death)Wednesday - offThursday - easy 4 miles (surprisingly completed in 27 mins)Today - timed 5 miler (plan to go all out)Saturday - recovery run, 3 mile trot before the gym (prob 22-23 mins or so because I expect to be sore after today's run)Sunday - long run, 9 miles (no goal time in mind)

BnB says it best. Run your fast runs fast, slow runs slow. Nothing in between. Those 'easy' runs are in no man's land and is hampering your ability to put in quality work when its time for one of the core workouts. The core runs are going to be long run, speed/intervals, and tempo/fartlek. Everything else in between should be total rest or recovery runs.If you take a look at Tuesday, you have "death". I'd bet good $ part of the reason for that was that you weren't fully recovered from your Sunday long run since you ran a 5 miler at a decent pace on Monday. That 5 probably felt "easy", but in all reality that should've been a recovery run at an 8:30ish pace (not 7:36).I think you have the right idea for the schedule, you just need some tweaking. I'd change Monday & Thursday to a recovery run @ 8:30. The Friday timed 5 miler at race pace is OK, but I wouldn't make that a weekly habit. Mix in a tempo run on Friday's where you do a 1-2mi warm up, then 3-6mi at HM pace (probably 6:30ish for you), then a 1-2mi cool down. Your Sunday long run should have a goal time in mind - 72 minutes give or take.

So would this plan for the next 2 weeks look good?Today - (since yesterday was too fast) easy 3 miles, sho 22 minsSaturday - long run, 9 miles in one hour 10 minsSunday - repeat todayMonday - easy 4 miles, shoot for 30 minsTuesday - sprintWednesday - repeat MondayThursday - long run, 8 miles in under an hourFriday - offSaturday - repeat MondaySunday - 5k trialMonday - repeat last MondayTuesday - sprintWednesday - repeat MondayThursday - 6 miles, keep same pace as easy 4 mile runsFriday - very easy 3 milesSaturday - offSunday - race day, 5k

 

[2Young2BBald]

Anyone seen and/or tried Ben Gay Zero Degrees? I saw an ad for it this morning. Most races I do are to far away from home to make effective use of ice baths. I have been lazy in packing ice bags where I could do localized icing. This looks like an easy way to keep this on ice and use it for localized icing post race.

ETA, just took a look at reviews on Amazon. Only 3, but all very favorable. Gonna have to give this a try.

 

[sho nuff]

I too was doing too much "speed" work. On top of that, my GA runs or the GA portions of tempo runs were about 45 seconds per mile too fast.I got much better results when I slowed down my GA runs and long runs...my tempos and intervals got faster when I did this as well.The faster parts became easier by making the easy parts easier and build a good mileage base on slower miles.Now if Ned will ever convert me to really training by HR...Im kind of half assing the HR data right now. I like having it...I can generally tell about where my HR is during most runs and I know when I see most of it when I need to slow it down. Just not yet letting it guide all of my training. Stubborn that way I guess.

Reverend HR is here for you whenever you're ready to commit to it, son.

Im getting there.Really need to finally get a good idea of what my max is.Was mostly letting HR dictate my LT run Wendesday night...though, I did let it creep up a bit on the last mile of it.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Good luck to Gruecd, Ivan and all the other racers this weekend.

As for me, with just a little over a week to go, I'm still trying to gauge how I'll perform in next weekend's 5 miler. I tested myself again last evening with a 2.25 mile run at a nearby park averaging about a 6:30 pace. (Yes, I did warm up and cool down by jogging to and from the park (a little over a mile away)). My heart rate zoomed up to a high of 173 by the end. I think that's the highest I've ever seen it. I could have run that pace for a little longer but certainly not for 5 miles. I probably shouldn't have ran that fast but I'm having a strong urge to test myself right now.

It's amazing how narrow my range in pace is. I just ran a marathon averaging 7:11 but I have trouble maintaining a 6:30 pace for even a few miles.

 

[2Young2BBald]

Good luck to Gruecd, Ivan and all the other racers this weekend.

As for me, with just a little over a week to go, I'm still trying to gauge how I'll perform in next weekend's 5 miler. I tested myself again last evening with a 2.25 mile run at a nearby park averaging about a 6:30 pace. (Yes, I did warm up and cool down by jogging to and from the park (a little over a mile away)). My heart rate zoomed up to a high of 173 by the end. I think that's the highest I've ever seen it. I could have run that pace for a little longer but certainly not for 5 miles. I probably shouldn't have ran that fast but I'm having a strong urge to test myself right now.

It's amazing how narrow my range in pace is. I just ran a marathon averaging 7:11 but I have trouble maintaining a 6:30 pace for even a few miles.

alert. This can be explained, I think, by the Central Governor Theory Don't look at it from the endurance side, but rather from your endurance side regulating the speed you are trying to achieve. Your endurance brain is sending false signals to your speed side that you need to slow down. There is an entire chapter on this in the eBook Endurance Nerd.ETA, just found this 48 page paper on this and other endurance related testing topics. I have to print this and read it later, looks to be very cool stuff.

 

[Ned]

Easy 4 miles today. And I got it done in 27 mins. Was not breathing heavy when I finished and legs definitely had more juice in them. To run this time a month ago I'd have needed 10 mins laying on the deck, a cold towel, and a liter of water afterwards. Today, I went right in and got my weights done. This is definitely working. Going to do an intense 5 miles tomorrow...

I hate to tell you, but unless you're a 15-minute 5K guy, four miles in 27 minutes is not easy. I apologize in advance for the tough love, but if you keep running back-to-back hard days like this, you're going to have no one but yourself to blame when you wind up injured.

Well, I have increased my goals to sub 18? It was the day after an off day, probably one reason why it felt so easy. I started off slow, legs were tight, hit a downhill at about 3/4 mile, loosened up and just started cruising. Didn't even notice how quickly I was moving until I got to the mile 3 turn and I was only 21 mins into my run.

You're not going to listen anyway. Do what you wanna do. Just don't say we didn't warn you.

I wouldn't say that, I've been trying. Went out like I had my other recent pace runs - easy breathing, easy trot, not pushing the legs, about a mile or so in once loosened up hit cruising speed, then coast. Get done without breathing heavy and feel like my legs have more in them. My cruising speed had been about 7:30 miles, yesterday it was a lot faster. But my legs felt the same as other pace runs, my heart rate never spiked, and my recovery was quick and easy. I adjusted my approach a few weeks ago to include more easy runs, this was my schedule for the weekMonday - easy 5 miles (completed in 38 mins)Tuesday - 4 mile sprint interval workout (death)Wednesday - offThursday - easy 4 miles (surprisingly completed in 27 mins)Today - timed 5 miler (plan to go all out)Saturday - recovery run, 3 mile trot before the gym (prob 22-23 mins or so because I expect to be sore after today's run)Sunday - long run, 9 miles (no goal time in mind)

BnB says it best. Run your fast runs fast, slow runs slow. Nothing in between. Those 'easy' runs are in no man's land and is hampering your ability to put in quality work when its time for one of the core workouts. The core runs are going to be long run, speed/intervals, and tempo/fartlek. Everything else in between should be total rest or recovery runs.If you take a look at Tuesday, you have "death". I'd bet good $ part of the reason for that was that you weren't fully recovered from your Sunday long run since you ran a 5 miler at a decent pace on Monday. That 5 probably felt "easy", but in all reality that should've been a recovery run at an 8:30ish pace (not 7:36).I think you have the right idea for the schedule, you just need some tweaking. I'd change Monday & Thursday to a recovery run @ 8:30. The Friday timed 5 miler at race pace is OK, but I wouldn't make that a weekly habit. Mix in a tempo run on Friday's where you do a 1-2mi warm up, then 3-6mi at HM pace (probably 6:30ish for you), then a 1-2mi cool down. Your Sunday long run should have a goal time in mind - 72 minutes give or take.

So would this plan for the next 2 weeks look good?Today - (since yesterday was too fast) easy 3 miles, sho 22 minsSaturday - long run, 9 miles in one hour 10 minsSunday - repeat todayMonday - easy 4 miles, shoot for 30 minsTuesday - sprintWednesday - repeat MondayThursday - long run, 8 miles in under an hourFriday - offSaturday - repeat MondaySunday - 5k trialMonday - repeat last MondayTuesday - sprintWednesday - repeat MondayThursday - 6 miles, keep same pace as easy 4 mile runsFriday - very easy 3 milesSaturday - offSunday - race day, 5k

When building your schedule, build it around the core 3 (speed/intervals, tempo, long) and then insert your rest/recovery days. I wouldn't entirely rearrange what you originally had. It was good, just needed a tweak or 2. I again take a page from BnB and think being fresh is key for these 5K races. I'd take 2 days of total rest before the race. Especially given the fact that you've been hammering a lot of speedwork. Give your body an extra day to get totally healed up for race day.Today - 5mi tempo (1mi warmup, 3 mi @ 6:30-6:45, 1mi cooldown)Saturday - 3mi Recovery @ 8:30Sunday - 9mi Long @ 8:00Monday - 4mi Recovery @ 8:30Tuesday - Sprint intervals (not sure what you're doing, but you obviously know how to do this part )Wednesday - Total rest or 4mi Recovery @ 8:30Thursday - 8mi @ 8:30Friday - 5mi tempo (1mi warmup, 3 mi @ 6:30-6:45, 1mi cooldown)Saturday - 3mi Recovery @ 8:30Sunday - 5K trialMonday - Total rest or 4mi Recovery @ 8:30Tuesday - SprintWednesday - 5mi tempo (1mi warmup, 3 mi @ 6:30-6:45, 1mi cooldown)Thursday - 4mi Recovery @ 8:30Friday - RestSaturday - RestSunday - Race

 

[Juxtatarot]

Good luck to Gruecd, Ivan and all the other racers this weekend.

As for me, with just a little over a week to go, I'm still trying to gauge how I'll perform in next weekend's 5 miler. I tested myself again last evening with a 2.25 mile run at a nearby park averaging about a 6:30 pace. (Yes, I did warm up and cool down by jogging to and from the park (a little over a mile away)). My heart rate zoomed up to a high of 173 by the end. I think that's the highest I've ever seen it. I could have run that pace for a little longer but certainly not for 5 miles. I probably shouldn't have ran that fast but I'm having a strong urge to test myself right now.

It's amazing how narrow my range in pace is. I just ran a marathon averaging 7:11 but I have trouble maintaining a 6:30 pace for even a few miles.

alert. This can be explained, I think, by the Central Governor Theory Don't look at it from the endurance side, but rather from your endurance side regulating the speed you are trying to achieve. Your endurance brain is sending false signals to your speed side that you need to slow down. There is an entire chapter on this in the eBook Endurance Nerd.ETA, just found this 48 page paper on this and other endurance related testing topics. I have to print this and read it later, looks to be very cool stuff.

Thanks. I'll take a look when I'm not at work.

 

[BassNBrew]

Easy 4 miles today. And I got it done in 27 mins. Was not breathing heavy when I finished and legs definitely had more juice in them. To run this time a month ago I'd have needed 10 mins laying on the deck, a cold towel, and a liter of water afterwards. Today, I went right in and got my weights done. This is definitely working. Going to do an intense 5 miles tomorrow...

I hate to tell you, but unless you're a 15-minute 5K guy, four miles in 27 minutes is not easy. I apologize in advance for the tough love, but if you keep running back-to-back hard days like this, you're going to have no one but yourself to blame when you wind up injured.

Well, I have increased my goals to sub 18? It was the day after an off day, probably one reason why it felt so easy. I started off slow, legs were tight, hit a downhill at about 3/4 mile, loosened up and just started cruising. Didn't even notice how quickly I was moving until I got to the mile 3 turn and I was only 21 mins into my run.

You're not going to listen anyway. Do what you wanna do. Just don't say we didn't warn you.

I wouldn't say that, I've been trying. Went out like I had my other recent pace runs - easy breathing, easy trot, not pushing the legs, about a mile or so in once loosened up hit cruising speed, then coast. Get done without breathing heavy and feel like my legs have more in them. My cruising speed had been about 7:30 miles, yesterday it was a lot faster. But my legs felt the same as other pace runs, my heart rate never spiked, and my recovery was quick and easy. I adjusted my approach a few weeks ago to include more easy runs, this was my schedule for the weekMonday - easy 5 miles (completed in 38 mins)Tuesday - 4 mile sprint interval workout (death)Wednesday - offThursday - easy 4 miles (surprisingly completed in 27 mins)Today - timed 5 miler (plan to go all out)Saturday - recovery run, 3 mile trot before the gym (prob 22-23 mins or so because I expect to be sore after today's run)Sunday - long run, 9 miles (no goal time in mind)

BnB says it best. Run your fast runs fast, slow runs slow. Nothing in between. Those 'easy' runs are in no man's land and is hampering your ability to put in quality work when its time for one of the core workouts. The core runs are going to be long run, speed/intervals, and tempo/fartlek. Everything else in between should be total rest or recovery runs.If you take a look at Tuesday, you have "death". I'd bet good $ part of the reason for that was that you weren't fully recovered from your Sunday long run since you ran a 5 miler at a decent pace on Monday. That 5 probably felt "easy", but in all reality that should've been a recovery run at an 8:30ish pace (not 7:36).I think you have the right idea for the schedule, you just need some tweaking. I'd change Monday & Thursday to a recovery run @ 8:30. The Friday timed 5 miler at race pace is OK, but I wouldn't make that a weekly habit. Mix in a tempo run on Friday's where you do a 1-2mi warm up, then 3-6mi at HM pace (probably 6:30ish for you), then a 1-2mi cool down. Your Sunday long run should have a goal time in mind - 72 minutes give or take.

So would this plan for the next 2 weeks look good?Today - (since yesterday was too fast) easy 3 miles, sho 22 minsSaturday - long run, 9 miles in one hour 10 minsSunday - repeat todayMonday - easy 4 miles, shoot for 30 minsTuesday - sprintWednesday - repeat MondayThursday - long run, 8 miles in under an hourFriday - offSaturday - repeat MondaySunday - 5k trialMonday - repeat last MondayTuesday - sprintWednesday - repeat MondayThursday - 6 miles, keep same pace as easy 4 mile runsFriday - very easy 3 milesSaturday - offSunday - race day, 5k

When building your schedule, build it around the core 3 (speed/intervals, tempo, long) and then insert your rest/recovery days. I wouldn't entirely rearrange what you originally had. It was good, just needed a tweak or 2. I again take a page from BnB and think being fresh is key for these 5K races. I'd take 2 days of total rest before the race. Especially given the fact that you've been hammering a lot of speedwork. Give your body an extra day to get totally healed up for race day.Today - 5mi tempo (1mi warmup, 3 mi @ 6:30-6:45, 1mi cooldown)Saturday - 3mi Recovery @ 8:30Sunday - 9mi Long @ 8:00Monday - 4mi Recovery @ 8:30Tuesday - Sprint intervals (not sure what you're doing, but you obviously know how to do this part )Wednesday - Total rest or 4mi Recovery @ 8:30Thursday - 8mi @ 8:30Friday - 5mi tempo (1mi warmup, 3 mi @ 6:30-6:45, 1mi cooldown)Saturday - 3mi Recovery @ 8:30Sunday - 5K trialMonday - Total rest or 4mi Recovery @ 8:30Tuesday - SprintWednesday - 5mi tempo (1mi warmup, 3 mi @ 6:30-6:45, 1mi cooldown)Thursday - 4mi Recovery @ 8:30Friday - RestSaturday - RestSunday - Race

Freshness over fitness for short racesFitness over freshness for long racesThat being said, a mile or two shake out run Saturday works wonders for me.

 

[BassNBrew]

Not sure why you want to do sprint intervals on Tuesday and all out on a Friday though.

Several suggested 2-3 hard days per week So I adjusted my regimen to one sprint-interval workout, one timed race, and one long run - never on consecutive days. I push the first two to the limit and just listen to my body on the long run. So far I've done 7 miles in 53 mins and 8 miles in just over an hour, thinking I'll probably knock 9 out in an hour 10 but like the last 2 I'm not running for time. I didn't go out yesterday with the intent to break any land-speed records, I went out with the same mindset as Monday and my breathing, HR, and wear on my legs felt the same. I was just moving faster.

You would be an ideal candidate for a HR monitor. It would tell you when to slow down and as your fitness improves it would tell you when to re-adjust you pacing.