Ran a 10k in June (5 Viewers)

[2Young2BBald]

One of my all time favorite race photos

It moved. Congrats on the event. SO cool!!!

And ..suck it up and order a quality pic! That pic is such a keeper.

Did my wife call you?!? She said the EXACT same thing

 

[Ned]

One of my all time favorite race photos

It moved. Congrats on the event. SO cool!!!

And ..suck it up and order a quality pic! That pic is such a keeper.

Did my wife call you?!? She said the EXACT same thing

It moved for your wife?

 

[2Young2BBald]

One of my all time favorite race photos

It moved. Congrats on the event. SO cool!!!

And ..suck it up and order a quality pic! That pic is such a keeper.

Did my wife call you?!? She said the EXACT same thing

It moved for your wife?

Well, Tri-Man has met my wife on several occasions, so its possible. Speaking of my wife, I should have mentioned all along that she did the Duathlon as part of the event too, a 5K run/11.1 mile bike/5K run. Very proud of her as she is coming off planters faciitis. She ended up AG 4th. Speaking of my wife again, based mainly on her guilt (and an assist from TM) I did buy the photo. My wife is also the reason I over tip crappy waitresses, over pay on my taxes and recycle like a mother ######.

 

[MAC_32]

Easy 5-miler done. You know it's been bad when a suck index of 141 (82/59) almost feels pleasant...

Truth, dew point was in the 60's but temp was about the same here. Comfortable 4 mile run with the stroller and I wasn't so soaked when I got home that I had to towel off before sitting on any furniture. Could use more runs like that

 

[prosopis]

I am back from San Diego. We had a great time. Sadly I have to report that I did not run once.

It was all my fault and not my family's. My wife even asked when I was going to go but I just never did. After Sea World my ham strings were killing me and I have no idea why. It was lots of walking but not anything to cause that. I still could have run but our hotel was right across the street from restaurants and beer. I was just enjoying the food and beer to much. Next morning I would sleep in and go to the next site. I have no one to blame but me. It was the best vacation we have ever had though. Just had a blast. I did not want to leave. What a great town. I love the beach/ocean. Midway museum was way cool as well.

I am getting back into the swing of things now. On the 29th I will start a Higdon training for my 1/2 in October. I am trying to decide between the intermediate and advanced program. I am leaning towards intermediate.

 

[Sand]

Another Tuesday ride down. Three new PRs and I swept the sprints and KOM hill. In fact, against my main competition on the hill our combined times for the last two weeks were 12:45 to 12:46. The right guy won, of course. Set a new PR by 7 seconds up that climb today and legs felt awesome doing it.

On the first sprint spot we have a 4.5 mile road to get there (no turns). Started with 10 and started shelling people off the back one by one. By the time we got to the finish there were just two of us. Felt awesome to be the standing at the end.

 

[Ned]

Day 2, week 2 of Pfitz 18/70 - 12mi MLR

I woke up to a gift from mother nature. 69/54 at 5AM felt like a crisp 40 degree day. What an awesome surprise this was. This ended up being another one of those runs where I was spooked with how easy the pacing was going. The miles just melted away. I felt so good I should've ran 20 just for the hell of it.

I really hope this wasn't too fast of a run, but damn if that wasn't easy. Ended up at 9:12/141. 141 is super low for that pacing.

 

[sho nuff]

Nice weather and run Ned. Bit different for me today.

Day 2, week 2 of Pfitz 18/55 - 10mi MLR

I woke up at 4:30...ugh number one for me. Out the door at 5:20. It was 80/72.

Slugged through it at 10:30 and could not have been more soaked from head to toe if I had run through every automatic sprinkler system in the 4 neighborhoods I ran through.

I never felt overly bad during it and did my best with no HR monitor to just keep it easy even early on and not try to push much even when feeling good. I think that helped me finish this one pretty strong.

Recovery tomorrow or Friday before Saturday's 13mi w/8 at marathon pace.

Good thing today is I get to reward myself for a good run with ice cream later this morning. (son has an orthodontist appointment and getting some braces to close the gap in his front teeth so his other teeth can come in straight...so the kids get a treat and dad does too)

 

[Juxtatarot]

I really hope this wasn't too fast of a run, but damn if that wasn't easy. Ended up at 9:12/141. 141 is super low for that pacing.

I know this was mentioned before but I'm of the belief that if your heart rate falls below the range Pfitzinger lists for that type run, you should pick up the pace.

 

[gruecd]

Looking at a suck index (much catchier phrase than "misery index," IMHO) of 163 (94/69) when I head out for my 10 miles later this afternoon. Just when my unfortunate thigh chafing was almost healed....

Fan-#######-tastic. This weather has me feeling almost defeated... :(

 

[Ned]

I really hope this wasn't too fast of a run, but damn if that wasn't easy. Ended up at 9:12/141. 141 is super low for that pacing.

I know this was mentioned before but I'm of the belief that if your heart rate falls below the range Pfitzinger lists for that type run, you should pick up the pace.

I've avoided posting this since I'm going to come off as a paranoid freak, but since you cracked open Pandora's box.... Some context. I think I've had a bad string of luck with the HM + marathon races (I've only run 3 HMs + 2 marathons). My HM PR (10/15/11) is 1:48 (8:16) which was run on a hilly course on a very windy day (something absurd like 20mph + 50 gusts) where I donked up the pacing. My marathon PR (11/21/11) is 4:05 (9:23) and was where I came down with a stomach bug, puked 2x, and had rocket poop. Having these seemingly soft PRs makes this more confusing than it should be.With that said, I've been really conflicted about this lately. The Pfitz LR range for me is 144-164. I would've been in the 8:30s today at that HR range. Maybe I'm underestimating myself, but that's a really fast LR. Hell that's only 14sec off my HM PR. I used to religiously follow the Pfitz HR tables. A while back BnB was pretty adamant that the long run ranges were too broad/high for endurance work. As I read a couple of HR training books, their suggested ranges were right in line with what BnB was saying. I finally listened and trained using the tighter/lower ranges and had really good results this past winter. I felt like my endurance improved a lot which resulted in a great HM-10K-5K triple race (not sure if you were active around this time or not).Taking HR out of the equation, Pfitz suggests 20% slower than MP at the start and then finish at 10% slower than MP. As I mentioned, my marathon PR is pretty iffy, but if I use that, it equates out to a 11:16 (20%) & 10:19 (10%). That's brutally slow. Do I assume I was right that my 3:50 goal for that race was the right PR goal? If I take today's 9:12 MLR and back into a MP (assuming its 15% slower than MP), that puts me at a 8:00 MP (3:30). Today I ran solely by HR, but ended up with almost the exact 20%/10% that Pfitz calls for (8:00 = 9:36, 8:48). I started out at 9:45-9:20 for the first few and ended up with 8:56-9:09 for the last few. Using a single training run is a dangerous game, but it's another way to look at this.So with all the confusion (can you say paralysis by analysis?), I decided its safer to err on the side of the low end (HR) for the long runs, but still press the LT and 5K paced runs hard. Honestly, do I have the speed for a 3:30? Yes I have no doubt I have the speed (my 5K PR is 20:39). It's my endurance that I feel is lacking. The only way to get that endurance up is keeping that HR down below 75% of max HR (146 for me). I'm all ears on outside opinions.

 

[sho nuff]

I end up wearing compression shorts most of the time under my running shorts and have never had a chafing issue. Now, I don't put on the mileage some of you do...but I do have some pretty beefy thighs.

 

[tri-man 47]

So with all the confusion (can you say paralysis by analysis?), I decided its safer to err on the side of the low end (HR) for the long runs, but still press the LT and 5K paced runs hard. Honestly, do I have the speed for a 3:30? Yes I have no doubt I have the speed (my 5K PR is 20:39). It's my endurance that I feel is lacking. The only way to get that endurance up is keeping that HR down below 75% of max HR (146 for me). I'm all ears on outside opinions.

I say: Don't focus on the windy HM or crappy marathon. Keep doin' what you're doin'. Like you say, the speed is there. Use the HR data to guide your long runs based on where you're at now!--Index this a.m. of 75/70 ...ran 8 miles, 7:45 pace, 162 HR. That's a rather awkwarrd middle ground - should have been slower (but I was tight on time) or faster (but the index was too high). But it was what it was.

 

[MAC_32]

Dewpoint of 50? Has to be a typo, oh well, telling myself it's truth - heading out now with a suck index of 136 so no excuses!

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I really hope this wasn't too fast of a run, but damn if that wasn't easy. Ended up at 9:12/141. 141 is super low for that pacing.

I know this was mentioned before but I'm of the belief that if your heart rate falls below the range Pfitzinger lists for that type run, you should pick up the pace.

I've avoided posting this since I'm going to come off as a paranoid freak, but since you cracked open Pandora's box.... Some context. I think I've had a bad string of luck with the HM + marathon races (I've only run 3 HMs + 2 marathons). My HM PR (10/15/11) is 1:48 (8:16) which was run on a hilly course on a very windy day (something absurd like 20mph + 50 gusts) where I donked up the pacing. My marathon PR (11/21/11) is 4:05 (9:23) and was where I came down with a stomach bug, puked 2x, and had rocket poop. Having these seemingly soft PRs makes this more confusing than it should be.With that said, I've been really conflicted about this lately. The Pfitz LR range for me is 144-164. I would've been in the 8:30s today at that HR range. Maybe I'm underestimating myself, but that's a really fast LR. Hell that's only 14sec off my HM PR. I used to religiously follow the Pfitz HR tables. A while back BnB was pretty adamant that the long run ranges were too broad/high for endurance work. As I read a couple of HR training books, their suggested ranges were right in line with what BnB was saying. I finally listened and trained using the tighter/lower ranges and had really good results this past winter. I felt like my endurance improved a lot which resulted in a great HM-10K-5K triple race (not sure if you were active around this time or not).Taking HR out of the equation, Pfitz suggests 20% slower than MP at the start and then finish at 10% slower than MP. As I mentioned, my marathon PR is pretty iffy, but if I use that, it equates out to a 11:16 (20%) & 10:19 (10%). That's brutally slow. Do I assume I was right that my 3:50 goal for that race was the right PR goal? If I take today's 9:12 MLR and back into a MP (assuming its 15% slower than MP), that puts me at a 8:00 MP (3:30). Today I ran solely by HR, but ended up with almost the exact 20%/10% that Pfitz calls for (8:00 = 9:36, 8:48). I started out at 9:45-9:20 for the first few and ended up with 8:56-9:09 for the last few. Using a single training run is a dangerous game, but it's another way to look at this.So with all the confusion (can you say paralysis by analysis?), I decided its safer to err on the side of the low end (HR) for the long runs, but still press the LT and 5K paced runs hard. Honestly, do I have the speed for a 3:30? Yes I have no doubt I have the speed (my 5K PR is 20:39). It's my endurance that I feel is lacking. The only way to get that endurance up is keeping that HR down below 75% of max HR (146 for me). I'm all ears on outside opinions.

If you know your half and full PRs are super-soft (and they obviously are for the reasons you described), then why base any of your training off of them? They don't accurately represent your level of current fitness.Just to chime in on the pacing issue, I've done my last several LRs and MLRs slower than ever -- right at 10:00/mi. I've never trained this slow before except for recovery runs, but it's about in line with what Pfitz recommends. Let's say a reasonable MP for me is 8:45. I don't think I really have the endurance to pull that off, but it's in the ballpark of what my HM PR suggests. Well, 10% to 20% slower is 9:38-10:30, so 10:00/mi is right there. The other thing though is that I've already built up a pretty good level of cumulative fatigue and it's only Week 8, so I need to do these long runs "easy" if I'm going to be able to go hard on tempo and interval sessions, and I agree with you completely that I don't want to dog those. I know that doesn't add a whole lot to the conversation, but since several of us in are in similar spots of comparable training programs, I figured I'd throw it out there. I guess I won't really know if the slower long runs will work out until October.

 

[Ned]

I say: Don't focus on the windy HM or crappy marathon. Keep doin' what you're doin'. Like you say, the speed is there. Use the HR data to guide your long runs based on where you're at now!

--

Index this a.m. of 75/70 ...ran 8 miles, 7:45 pace, 162 HR. That's a rather awkwarrd middle ground - should have been slower (but I was tight on time) or faster (but the index was too high). But it was what it was.

Love all the new 'index' talk. I know what you mean about the middle ground runs. The Pfitz GA runs are dangerously close this. I find myself struggling with pacing on these more times than not because of that awkward range. I'm either too slow or too fast when running them.I agree on the 'now' comment, which is why I've stuck to this plan right now. I'm just hitting some uncharted pace territories and it has me spooked since I know the key to this marathon game is endurance. Running long runs too fast is a death sentence. I want this 3rd marathon really bad.

The other reason this has really been on the forefront of my mind is I have my first MP run this Sunday - 16/8. The Pfitz MP HR range for me is 154-171, which is another broad range. So I was going to let HR be my guide and run the 8 at around 160s and see what I got. Had I run that today I probably would've been squarely in the 8:15-8:30. That's super exciting, but that also scares the hell outta me.

If you know your half and full PRs are super-soft (and they obviously are for the reasons you described), then why base any of your training off of them? They don't accurately represent your level of current fitness.

Just to chime in on the pacing issue, I've done my last several LRs and MLRs slower than ever -- right at 10:00/mi. I've never trained this slow before except for recovery runs, but it's about in line with what Pfitz recommends. Let's say a reasonable MP for me is 8:45. I don't think I really have the endurance to pull that off, but it's in the ballpark of what my HM PR suggests. Well, 10% to 20% slower is 9:38-10:30, so 10:00/mi is right there. The other thing though is that I've already built up a pretty good level of cumulative fatigue and it's only Week 8, so I need to do these long runs "easy" if I'm going to be able to go hard on tempo and interval sessions, and I agree with you completely that I don't want to dog those.

I know that doesn't add a whole lot to the conversation, but since several of us in are in similar spots of comparable training programs, I figured I'd throw it out there. I guess I won't really know if the slower long runs will work out until October.

I haven't used them for basing my pacing, but when I have runs like today that were seemingly really fast for me, I start to question things. I know HR training isn't really mainstream (insert hocus pocus jokes here), so I backtest this stuff using the conventional pacing ranges. When I do the math, it doesn't add up at all. On paper, 9:12 is a really fast MLR for someone with a 4:05 marathon.You know yourself better than me, but I have a feeling you're faster than 8:45. Didn't you just run a 1:43 HM?

You're right about a few of us being in the same boat. Hopefully everyone else can learn from my over-analyzing and save themselves some headaches.

 

[Juxtatarot]

I'm all ears on outside opinions.

You and others are more of a student of the heart rate stuff than me, of course. I guess if you're comfortable with what you're doing, great. If you keep up your training, I think you are going to nail your marathon. (Assuming no injury, illness, unforeseen weather, etc.)I probably have a strong opinion on this due to my past experience. This spring I ran my medium and long runs about 45 seconds faster and at a higher heart rate (still in Pfitz's range) than I did last summer/fall. I think this was a big reason for my improvement.You're also running the up to 70 plan so there is more danger of fatigue and wear and tear. I understand why you're doing what you're doing.

 

[MAC_32]

4 miles in 26 minutes after what felt like a very slow first 1/2 mile (stiff, uphill). Felt like, fresh, I could've ran a good minute faster. I'm encouraged about Saturday and look forward to 2 days off

 

[BassNBrew]

I really hope this wasn't too fast of a run, but damn if that wasn't easy. Ended up at 9:12/141. 141 is super low for that pacing.

I know this was mentioned before but I'm of the belief that if your heart rate falls below the range Pfitzinger lists for that type run, you should pick up the pace.

I think Pfitz started based on pacing and backed into the hr. I've stated this before, but the ranges are just to broad to be useful. I'll though out my ranges which were established via oxygen testing.167 is lacate threshold. I think the highest I've seen training is around 175.zone 5: 167+ - VO2 max, sprint workzone 4: 157-167 - 5k, long interval workzone 3: 147-157 - hard longish efforts fall herezone 2: 137-147 - no fly zone, although I'll let long runs drift here on hills or when I have a pace in mind at the endzone 1: 127-137 - bulk of my runningrecovery: <127Sweet spot training is in the upper zone 3, lower zone 4 area. I would try to be here during a sprint tri.The biggest mistake I think people make is traing in zone 2. You can get the same benefit in zone 1 without the wear and tear on your body. I like to race my longish events in the zone 2 area.

 

[BassNBrew]

Long run from two days ago

1 - 8:57, 125

2 - 8:55, 138

3 - 9:38, 135

4 - 8:54, 137

5 - 9:09, 140

6 - 10:02, 143

7 - 9:43, 143

8 - 9:37, 140

9 - 9:14, 142

This is where I was at a week ago

1 - 9:04, 130

2 - 8:48, 145

3 - 8:56, 144

4 - 9:36, 150

5 - 9:03, 158

6 - 8:50, 166

 

[BassNBrew]

4 miles in 26 minutes after what felt like a very slow first 1/2 mile (stiff, uphill). Felt like, fresh, I could've ran a good minute faster. I'm encouraged about Saturday and look forward to 2 days off

Slacker. That would be a 36 minute workout for me.

 

[Juxtatarot]

I really hope this wasn't too fast of a run, but damn if that wasn't easy. Ended up at 9:12/141. 141 is super low for that pacing.

I know this was mentioned before but I'm of the belief that if your heart rate falls below the range Pfitzinger lists for that type run, you should pick up the pace.

I think Pfitz started based on pacing and backed into the hr. I've stated this before, but the ranges are just to broad to be useful. I'll though out my ranges which were established via oxygen testing.167 is lacate threshold. I think the highest I've seen training is around 175.

zone 5: 167+ - VO2 max, sprint work

zone 4: 157-167 - 5k, long interval work

zone 3: 147-157 - hard longish efforts fall here

zone 2: 137-147 - no fly zone, although I'll let long runs drift here on hills or when I have a pace in mind at the end

zone 1: 127-137 - bulk of my running

recovery: <127

Sweet spot training is in the upper zone 3, lower zone 4 area. I would try to be here during a sprint tri.

The biggest mistake I think people make is traing in zone 2. You can get the same benefit in zone 1 without the wear and tear on your body. I like to race my longish events in the zone 2 area.

Just curious, how did you come to this conclusion? Is this "no fly zone" idea generally accepted outside of Pfitz's book?

 

[prosopis]

I did 6 miles today. I did a humpback run on the tread mill.

1 mile @ 9:40

" @9:31

" @9:22

" @9:13

1/2 mile @9:22

" @9:31

" @9:40

little longer @ 9:40 then did cool down

I felt good doing it. You guys are confusing the hell out of me with all the HR training. I tried that last summer and I dont understand how you keep your HR at a certain level. I would have huge jumps and have to walk or really slow jog to get it back in range. This was when it was very hot which probably had something to do with it. I do wear the monitor and I can see improvement in avg HR over the years.

 

[tri-man 47]

I am back from San Diego. We had a great time. Sadly I have to report that I did not run once. It was all my fault and not my family's. My wife even asked when I was going to go but I just never did. After Sea World my ham strings were killing me and I have no idea why. It was lots of walking but not anything to cause that. I still could have run but our hotel was right across the street from restaurants and beer. I was just enjoying the food and beer to much. Next morning I would sleep in and go to the next site. I have no one to blame but me. It was the best vacation we have ever had though. Just had a blast. I did not want to leave. What a great town. I love the beach/ocean. Midway museum was way cool as well.I am getting back into the swing of things now. On the 29th I will start a Higdon training for my 1/2 in October. I am trying to decide between the intermediate and advanced program. I am leaning towards intermediate.

:sigh: We'll let you skate by on this one. Glad you had a great vacation!!!

 

[prosopis]

I am back from San Diego. We had a great time. Sadly I have to report that I did not run once. It was all my fault and not my family's. My wife even asked when I was going to go but I just never did. After Sea World my ham strings were killing me and I have no idea why. It was lots of walking but not anything to cause that. I still could have run but our hotel was right across the street from restaurants and beer. I was just enjoying the food and beer to much. Next morning I would sleep in and go to the next site. I have no one to blame but me. It was the best vacation we have ever had though. Just had a blast. I did not want to leave. What a great town. I love the beach/ocean. Midway museum was way cool as well.I am getting back into the swing of things now. On the 29th I will start a Higdon training for my 1/2 in October. I am trying to decide between the intermediate and advanced program. I am leaning towards intermediate.

:sigh: We'll let you skate by on this one. Glad you had a great vacation!!!

I know

 

[Sand]

167 is lacate threshold. I think the highest I've seen training is around 175.zone 5: 167+ - VO2 max, sprint workzone 4: 157-167 - 5k, long interval workzone 3: 147-157 - hard longish efforts fall herezone 2: 137-147 - no fly zone, although I'll let long runs drift here on hills or when I have a pace in mind at the endzone 1: 127-137 - bulk of my runningrecovery: <127

My heart rate zones are similar to this and I can't remember a run where I haven't been below 158-160. Today was no exception - suckage index at 165 and I had a spectacular run - 8:20/mile for 5 miles (160 avg HR). Felt great while I sweated my ### off. Then went for a 2000yd swim. The swim was slow and crappy (so as to even out the great run).

 

[IvanKaramazov]

You know you got up too early and it's going to be a long day when you're in the office 15 minutes early after doing 20 miles before work. On the plus side, I got to enjoy 62 degrees and a 57 degree dew point, which made for an easy-peasy run. I did the first 14 miles at super-comfortable 10:00/mi pace, and then sped up for the last 6 at 9:25/mi. This is probably the first time I've ever finished a run of this distance thinking that adding on another 6.2 would be no big deal, so all the extra mileage is definitely paying off.

 

[beer 302]

You know you got up too early and it's going to be a long day when you're in the office 15 minutes early after doing 20 miles before work. On the plus side, I got to enjoy 62 degrees and a 57 degree dew point, which made for an easy-peasy run. I did the first 14 miles at super-comfortable 10:00/mi pace, and then sped up for the last 6 at 9:25/mi. This is probably the first time I've ever finished a run of this distance thinking that adding on another 6.2 would be no big deal, so all the extra mileage is definitely paying off.

Nice job Ivan. I'm seeing the payoff in mileage as well, good feeling to know you have more in the tank at the end of a run.Just an easy 3 for me today and a day off tomorrow then a LR on Saturday. Shooting for a PR distance of 11+

 

[Ned]

You know you got up too early and it's going to be a long day when you're in the office 15 minutes early after doing 20 miles before work. On the plus side, I got to enjoy 62 degrees and a 57 degree dew point, which made for an easy-peasy run. I did the first 14 miles at super-comfortable 10:00/mi pace, and then sped up for the last 6 at 9:25/mi. This is probably the first time I've ever finished a run of this distance thinking that adding on another 6.2 would be no big deal, so all the extra mileage is definitely paying off.

Great job.

 

[Juxtatarot]

You know you got up too early and it's going to be a long day when you're in the office 15 minutes early after doing 20 miles before work. On the plus side, I got to enjoy 62 degrees and a 57 degree dew point, which made for an easy-peasy run. I did the first 14 miles at super-comfortable 10:00/mi pace, and then sped up for the last 6 at 9:25/mi. This is probably the first time I've ever finished a run of this distance thinking that adding on another 6.2 would be no big deal, so all the extra mileage is definitely paying off.

Awesome that you felt so good on your 1st 20 miler. I have no idea how you guys can do these long runs before work. When did you wake up? 3:00? For me, long runs are for weekends or evenings only.

 

[BassNBrew]

Just curious, how did you come to this conclusion? Is this "no fly zone" idea generally accepted outside of Pfitz's book?

Yes, but after researching this more it would be zone 3 for many people. I've looked at several different websites/definitions of these zones and the overlap is huge. I've done the testing in the lab so I know scientifically where my numbers are.There is an exertion level where your body uses fat as it's largest percentage of fuel. That can be tied to a hr number. If you train here your body will adapt to using fat as a fuel source at a higher percentage level when you race at harder levels. This is a huge benefit because you can only process 250-350 max cal per hour while exercising. If your fuel source is weighted to heavy to carbs vs. fat, you will boink. Bascially you want to train your body to be efficient at burning fat.The "no fly zone" is an area where you're going to fast to get a good fat burn ratio and putting some wear into the legs. It's also to slow to see much in the way of speed gains. You can get endurance benefits in the no fly zone, but you'll still get these at the slower pace.

 

[BassNBrew]

You know you got up too early and it's going to be a long day when you're in the office 15 minutes early after doing 20 miles before work. On the plus side, I got to enjoy 62 degrees and a 57 degree dew point, which made for an easy-peasy run. I did the first 14 miles at super-comfortable 10:00/mi pace, and then sped up for the last 6 at 9:25/mi. This is probably the first time I've ever finished a run of this distance thinking that adding on another 6.2 would be no big deal, so all the extra mileage is definitely paying off.

Stellar work Ivan.

 

[tri-man 47]

You know you got up too early and it's going to be a long day when you're in the office 15 minutes early after doing 20 miles before work. On the plus side, I got to enjoy 62 degrees and a 57 degree dew point, which made for an easy-peasy run. I did the first 14 miles at super-comfortable 10:00/mi pace, and then sped up for the last 6 at 9:25/mi. This is probably the first time I've ever finished a run of this distance thinking that adding on another 6.2 would be no big deal, so all the extra mileage is definitely paying off.

I'm seeing the payoff in mileage as well, good feeling to know you have more in the tank at the end of a run.

Way to go, boys!BnB - thanks for the comments on the training. It's always helpful to be thinking about those training zones (hence my awareness of my 'awkward' 8 miler yesterday - not slow enough for fat burning; not fast enough to build speed).

 

[BassNBrew]

Hard effort last night for 6 miles...

1 - 7:38, 150

2 - 8:08, 158

3 - 8:13, 154

4 - 8:43, 162

5 - 8:52, 161

6 - 8:53, 166

overall - 8:25, 159 hr, suckage index 152

 

[Hugh One]

Hey guys, new poster to the site here. Really enjoyed reading through some of this thread. You guys are hard core.

I've ran 4 marathons, NYC 3 times and NJ once, best time was 3:40. I'm running NYC again this year and am currently training with a 10 miler scheduled for this weekend. Looking to break 3:45 this year, we'll see how it goes.

Anywho, just wanted to pop in and introduce myself and say hello.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Hey guys, new poster to the site here. Really enjoyed reading through some of this thread. You guys are hard core. I've ran 4 marathons, NYC 3 times and NJ once, best time was 3:40. I'm running NYC again this year and am currently training with a 10 miler scheduled for this weekend. Looking to break 3:45 this year, we'll see how it goes.Anywho, just wanted to pop in and introduce myself and say hello.

Welcome to the thread. Don't be a stranger.

 

[sho nuff]

Hey guys, new poster to the site here. Really enjoyed reading through some of this thread. You guys are hard core. I've ran 4 marathons, NYC 3 times and NJ once, best time was 3:40. I'm running NYC again this year and am currently training with a 10 miler scheduled for this weekend. Looking to break 3:45 this year, we'll see how it goes.Anywho, just wanted to pop in and introduce myself and say hello.

Welcome...you definitely have some history behind you in your running and know what your body can do.And definitely don't be a stranger...share the stories, training, and of course race stalking pics.

 

[tri-man 47]

Anywho, just wanted to pop in and introduce myself and say hello.

 

[Ned]

Anywho, just wanted to pop in and introduce myself and say hello.

The growth of this thread in the past year is awesome. The more the merrier.

 

[Ned]

Day 3, week 2 Pfitz 18/70 - 5mi Recovery

Funny how things can change from day to day. As good as yesterday was, today sucked. Tired legs plus a 150 suck index (79/71) made for a crummy recovery run. Main goal was to stay in recovery effort (136 or below) which I barely made. 10:18/136

I'll consider myself lucky that I was able to get this in at lunch time before the crazy heat hits today. We had a passing shower come by just as I started running, which kept the sun at bay for the majority. Supposed to get up to 110 heat index later this afternooon. :X

 

[SFBayDuck]

Just curious, how did you come to this conclusion? Is this "no fly zone" idea generally accepted outside of Pfitz's book?

Yes, but after researching this more it would be zone 3 for many people. I've looked at several different websites/definitions of these zones and the overlap is huge. I've done the testing in the lab so I know scientifically where my numbers are.There is an exertion level where your body uses fat as it's largest percentage of fuel. That can be tied to a hr number. If you train here your body will adapt to using fat as a fuel source at a higher percentage level when you race at harder levels. This is a huge benefit because you can only process 250-350 max cal per hour while exercising. If your fuel source is weighted to heavy to carbs vs. fat, you will boink. Bascially you want to train your body to be efficient at burning fat.

The "no fly zone" is an area where you're going to fast to get a good fat burn ratio and putting some wear into the legs. It's also to slow to see much in the way of speed gains. You can get endurance benefits in the no fly zone, but you'll still get these at the slower pace.

Good stuff. I'm starting to look into this a bit more as well. I bought the eBook Metabolic Efficiency Training by Bob Seebohar and have started reading that. Also starting to look into Phil Maffetone's work, as he's often referenced on the Endurance Planet podcast relative to HR training. My interest in all of this, considering I want to get back to the ultra distance again, is tapping into the (much more than adequate) fat stores I have and rely less on having to consume carbs when on the move for several hours - and the risk of GI distress that can come with that. So I want to train my body to burn fat as efficiently as possible, eventually at a higher pace than it does now.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Day 3, week 2 Pfitz 18/70 - 5mi RecoveryFunny how things can change from day to day. As good as yesterday was, today sucked. Tired legs plus a 150 suck index (79/71) made for a crummy recovery run. Main goal was to stay in recovery effort (136 or below) which I barely made. 10:18/136I'll consider myself lucky that I was able to get this in at lunch time before the crazy heat hits today. We had a passing shower come by just as I started running, which kept the sun at bay for the majority. Supposed to get up to 110 heat index later this afternooon. :X

I don't know if this plays any role for you or no, but I find it completely impossible to motivate myself to do these runs. Psychologically, I've already chalked up the day as a "rest day," so when I go out for a recovery run, I'm not really in the proper mindset and I just want to get the run over with so I can get back home or back to the office or whatever. And even though I'm thinking "well, it's only 5 miles," that's a still a substantial time commitment, especially when you count going to and from the gym, showering, etc. All that mental stuff adds up to an exaggerated sense of unpleasantness, at least for me. In other words, tempo runs and key workouts like that often aren't that bad because they're fun and it's easy to get psyched up for them, whereas these sorts of runs kind of get to be a grind after a while.

 

[Hugh One]

Uh, what's this suck index you speak of?

 

[Ned]

Day 3, week 2 Pfitz 18/70 - 5mi RecoveryFunny how things can change from day to day. As good as yesterday was, today sucked. Tired legs plus a 150 suck index (79/71) made for a crummy recovery run. Main goal was to stay in recovery effort (136 or below) which I barely made. 10:18/136I'll consider myself lucky that I was able to get this in at lunch time before the crazy heat hits today. We had a passing shower come by just as I started running, which kept the sun at bay for the majority. Supposed to get up to 110 heat index later this afternooon. :X

I don't know if this plays any role for you or no, but I find it completely impossible to motivate myself to do these runs. Psychologically, I've already chalked up the day as a "rest day," so when I go out for a recovery run, I'm not really in the proper mindset and I just want to get the run over with so I can get back home or back to the office or whatever. And even though I'm thinking "well, it's only 5 miles," that's a still a substantial time commitment, especially when you count going to and from the gym, showering, etc. All that mental stuff adds up to an exaggerated sense of unpleasantness, at least for me. In other words, tempo runs and key workouts like that often aren't that bad because they're fun and it's easy to get psyched up for them, whereas these sorts of runs kind of get to be a grind after a while.

Yeah I agree to a point. I have developed a love/hate relationship with recovery runs. Some days they're really therapeutic for me and I love them. Other days, like today, they just flat out suck. I agree with you on the mental aspect of it. I also think going at a pace slow enough to get the HR down to an effective range can be really ineficient, which adds to this crummy feeling.

 

[Ned]

Uh, what's this suck index you speak of?

I recently started looking at dew point as a measurement of how the humidity felt outside instead of relative humidity. Grue chimed in saying he and his running buddies coined the 'misery index' which is just temp + dew point. It's recently evolved into a more appropriately named suck index. Welcome to ville.

Had an awesome workout this morning. For everyone complaining about the weather I feel you, SC has been a bear lately and today was looking to be no exception. I always look at the weather before I head just to see how much fun I'm in for and after a good hard rain yesterday I was surprised to see for the first time in two weeks that the temp WASN'T 73° & 93% humidity. 70° and 99% humidity! So I thought it's going to be a bear, man I was off. that 3° drop was HUGE! Sweated like a pig but it was cool out so it was fantastic weather to be out there.

Rode the bike 4 miles down to work, ran 4 good hard miles around the stadium and 4 miles back on the bike. The last time I did this circuit was early May (when it was still bearable to run) and I bested that time by by almost 3 minutes and felt fantastic when i was done. The hills on this run used to wear me out, today I was sprinting up them angry. Was thinking of going longer but had to get back and I'm doing intervals tomorrow in the same place so I shut it down.

Nice! Relative Humidity can be misleading. Dew point is going to be a more accurate measure of how humid it feels out there. Right now we have 52% humidity with a dew point of 67. There's no way in hell that 52% is 'nice'. 67 is down right gross.

My link

My friends and I add the temperature and the dew point to get the "misery index." Temp + dew point of 90-100 is probably ideal, but anything below 130 is pretty much OK to go for the fast time (maybe 120 for longer distances, say 1/2 marathon or above.) Between 130-150 will see a gradual slowdown in pace, and if it’s above 150, forget pace and just focus on finishing.

 

[Hugh One]

Day 3, week 2 Pfitz 18/70 - 5mi RecoveryFunny how things can change from day to day. As good as yesterday was, today sucked. Tired legs plus a 150 suck index (79/71) made for a crummy recovery run. Main goal was to stay in recovery effort (136 or below) which I barely made. 10:18/136I'll consider myself lucky that I was able to get this in at lunch time before the crazy heat hits today. We had a passing shower come by just as I started running, which kept the sun at bay for the majority. Supposed to get up to 110 heat index later this afternooon. :X

I don't know if this plays any role for you or no, but I find it completely impossible to motivate myself to do these runs. Psychologically, I've already chalked up the day as a "rest day," so when I go out for a recovery run, I'm not really in the proper mindset and I just want to get the run over with so I can get back home or back to the office or whatever. And even though I'm thinking "well, it's only 5 miles," that's a still a substantial time commitment, especially when you count going to and from the gym, showering, etc. All that mental stuff adds up to an exaggerated sense of unpleasantness, at least for me. In other words, tempo runs and key workouts like that often aren't that bad because they're fun and it's easy to get psyched up for them, whereas these sorts of runs kind of get to be a grind after a while.

This year is the first marathon training I'm going where I will be incorporating tempo runs, interval runs, Fartlek runs, flex days (step mill or bike instead of running) etc. In the past I've just ran miles at the best sustainable pace for the distance of the runs, maxing out at about 40 miles/week a few weeks before the marathons. I think I was running too much. I was always dealing with injuries and think the training was pushing me too hard. So this year I'm trying it a little differently, we'll see how that goes.

 

[Hugh One]

I recently started looking at dew point as a measurement of how the humidity felt outside instead of relative humidity. Grue chimed in saying he and his running buddies coined the 'misery index' which is just temp + dew point. It's recently evolved into a more appropriately named suck index. Welcome to ville.

Ahhh, thanks for the clarification, makes sense. I live in NY so I know how the humidity, excuse me, dew point can make a 10 miler feel like a lot more than 10 miles.

 

[sho nuff]

Anywho, just wanted to pop in and introduce myself and say hello.

The growth of this thread in the past year is awesome. The more the merrier.

Yeah...but can we recruit some more who aren't all faster than me?

 

[pmbrown_22]

Hey all. Been away for a bit as life has gotten in the way of running lately.

Got out for a short run around the neighborhood today. Just over 3 miles, but suck index was over 140. It was hot. Have a summer head cold as well so I am just not there at all. Time to get back into everything though as the Bourbon Chase is right around the corner and I need to uphold my times.

Have a great day all.

 

[BassNBrew]

Anywho, just wanted to pop in and introduce myself and say hello.

The growth of this thread in the past year is awesome. The more the merrier.

Yeah...but can we recruit some more who aren't all faster than me?

I can fire up my alias and start posting if that makes you feel better.