Ran a 10k in June (8 Viewers)

[SteelCurtain]

Follows Closely - Yes.....you definitely want to slow down. I trained too hard during my first marathon cycle and I almost didn't make it to the start line due to injury. My second race, I slowed down in my long runs and did recovery runs and improved my time by 3+ minutes on a hillier course. Training hard all the time may work when your long run is 6, 8, 10 miles. As you increase mileage, your body is starting to break down and the ligaments, tendons, muscles are breaking down and getting weaker and weaker over a cumulative timeframe. Slow down on your long run and do ONE speed workout per week. Good luck. Post your workouts in here and the collective wisdom will help you craft something that works for you.

======================================

My update -- step back week, so, yesterday, I did 12 miles after a crazy day at work. Pace was 8:39/mile. It was warm but I felt decent especially after doing 9 the day before. <<FOLLOWS CLOSELY - Note: my goal marathon pace is somewhere in 7:55-8 min pace. If you look back, all my long runs are 45-90 seconds slower than my goal pace.>>

 

[sho nuff]

16/10....well, sort of.

First easy 6 was just that...but the heat was taking its toll a bit before the pace miles even started.

Pace miles started out ok...but as the suckex rose (67/66 to start, 73/68 after the first 6, 77/69 by the end) the pace miles really got to me.

HR monitor was screwed up from the start (HR never got out of 200-212 the entire run...even when I first started...oh well).

Ended up slugging through 9 of the 10 pace miles and was at the bottom of a half mile hill to start the last mile to the house...ended up calling it a day and walking it back.

I was out of water and just hurting after the run (and a day at the fair with the kids yesterday).

Not a great day for a run...but finished a 44 mile week with that last mile of walking...so I am overall satisfied...just wishing the cooler temps would have stayed.

 

[Ned]

Pfitz 18/70 week #6 (recovery week)

Tue (8mi GA) - 60/59 this morning. These cooler temps are like crack. I was rollin' but had a hard time keeping a steady pace. 8:31/147

Wed (12mi MLR) - 63/61. I felt really strong today. 9:07/139 Unreal HR at that pace for me.

Thur (5mi recovery) - Being a recovery week I decided to not run today and get some rest. Also got a DT massage.

Fri (10mi MLR) - 64/60. I just felt off today. Glutes were pretty sore after the massage. 9:11/142

Sat (5mi recovery) - 78/64. Muggy weather is creeping back in. Felt OK, but still felt weird. 10:12/132

Sun (15mi MLR) 76/67. Yuck. I felt like crap. 143suck didn't help. I just wanted to get the run over with. Amazing how different the 120s vs 140s feel like. 9:27/144

50 mi total for the week.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

16/10....well, sort of.First easy 6 was just that...but the heat was taking its toll a bit before the pace miles even started.Pace miles started out ok...but as the suckex rose (67/66 to start, 73/68 after the first 6, 77/69 by the end) the pace miles really got to me.HR monitor was screwed up from the start (HR never got out of 200-212 the entire run...even when I first started...oh well).Ended up slugging through 9 of the 10 pace miles and was at the bottom of a half mile hill to start the last mile to the house...ended up calling it a day and walking it back.I was out of water and just hurting after the run (and a day at the fair with the kids yesterday).Not a great day for a run...but finished a 44 mile week with that last mile of walking...so I am overall satisfied...just wishing the cooler temps would have stayed.

These marathon pace runs are tough. I'm supposed to do 18/14 on Saturday, but I'm leaning toward just forgetting about the MP part and just treating it as a regular 18-miler. 14 at MP is a little excessive, and I think I'm probably too fatigued to bounce back from a run like that on minimal recovery._________________________I did another 12 mile MLR after chruch earlier. It was a lot hotter than I would have liked, but I decided that I'd rather just put up with the heat than get up early yet again for one of these things. Anyway, yesterday's SDO did me a world of good and I banged out the first 10 miles extremely easily at about a 9:30 pace. I had to keep conciously reminding myself to slow down. The last two miles were a little harder, but that was mostly the heat and running on an empty stomach.

 

[Sand]

I guess I should do an update here. Rocketman Olympic tri done today. 18/43 in AG. 3/43 swim, 9/43 bike (not bad, but certainly not great). Then blew up, side stitches, etc. on the run with a 1:03. ####### embarrassment. Third attempt at an Olympic and I'm just not capable of racing them. I sucked and really had no fun. Given the shape I'm I doubt I'll ever be able to race these - I have no more time available to get in any better shape than I am in right now.

Good thing the season is almost over.

 

[BassNBrew]

I guess I should do an update here. Rocketman Olympic tri done today. 18/43 in AG. 3/43 swim, 9/43 bike (not bad, but certainly not great). Then blew up, side stitches, etc. on the run with a 1:03. ####### embarrassment. Third attempt at an Olympic and I'm just not capable of racing them. I sucked and really had no fun. Given the shape I'm I doubt I'll ever be able to race these - I have no more time available to get in any better shape than I am in right now.Good thing the season is almost over.

Sorry to hear that Sand. How were the bike and swim times?I don't see how you train for late summer events the way the heat is down there.

 

[The Flying Turtle]

My 15 mile was rained out last week so I had to make it up during the week by going a little longer.

On Monday I ran 7 offroad. I can't believe how much more difficult that is. I thought I was moving a little over 9 minute miles, but reality was 10:30.

Wednesday and Friday were 8 miles at MP.

Today I got back on schedule and ran 16 at 10:02 (goal was 10:00). Surprising easy for 15 but then my leg started cramping up. I stopped twice in the last mile to stretch it out.

My cardio and aerobic are progressing nicely and my limit is going to be leg strength. Luckily he cramping has moved from 7 miles to 15 miles I have 2 months to get that up to 26.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Failed at my second marathon pace run in a row. I was scheduled for 15 w/ 12 at MP, but at mile 11 I decided to shut it down and ran just one more mile at long-run pace. Heart rate was higher than it should have been and I got that dreaded "done" feeling. Suck factor was at about 130 and I'm sure I was still fatigued from some of my runs earlier in the week. Disappointing though, of course. I can't see myself PRing this October unless possibly it's like 40 degrees or something.

Is anyone using Training Effect? I'm curious about what some of you might think about it in general. From a search of the thread, it appears BnB uses/used it but hasn't mentioned it recently. I get these scores automatically with my new Garmin. I hadn't looked at them before but noticed I scored a 5.0 (Overreaching) for the first time this run. That helps me not feel so bad for stopping.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Failed at my second marathon pace run in a row. I was scheduled for 15 w/ 12 at MP, but at mile 11 I decided to shut it down and ran just one more mile at long-run pace. Heart rate was higher than it should have been and I got that dreaded "done" feeling. Suck factor was at about 130 and I'm sure I was still fatigued from some of my runs earlier in the week. Disappointing though, of course. I can't see myself PRing this October unless possibly it's like 40 degrees or something.

I don't know how the rest of your training is going, and you're way faster than me anyway, but like I said earlier I find these MP runs to be really hard. I completely understand that most of that is just the fact that every single run I do now is on tired legs so everything is much harder than it would be after a few weeks of taper, but still. These things are supposed to be confidence-building but I've found them to be anything but that.Flying Turtle -- Congrats on the added distance. I definitely hear you on off-roading. I don't do that often, but you're right that it slows you down a lot. If you're experiencing muscle cramps now at 16 miles now, you should plan on experiencing them on race day as well. Maybe not at that distance -- though that may happen too -- but somewhere in the last 10K at least. You won't be the only guy stopping to strech out cramps at that point, so don't let it bother you.

 

[sho nuff]

16/10....well, sort of.First easy 6 was just that...but the heat was taking its toll a bit before the pace miles even started.Pace miles started out ok...but as the suckex rose (67/66 to start, 73/68 after the first 6, 77/69 by the end) the pace miles really got to me.HR monitor was screwed up from the start (HR never got out of 200-212 the entire run...even when I first started...oh well).Ended up slugging through 9 of the 10 pace miles and was at the bottom of a half mile hill to start the last mile to the house...ended up calling it a day and walking it back.I was out of water and just hurting after the run (and a day at the fair with the kids yesterday).Not a great day for a run...but finished a 44 mile week with that last mile of walking...so I am overall satisfied...just wishing the cooler temps would have stayed.

These marathon pace runs are tough. I'm supposed to do 18/14 on Saturday, but I'm leaning toward just forgetting about the MP part and just treating it as a regular 18-miler. 14 at MP is a little excessive, and I think I'm probably too fatigued to bounce back from a run like that on minimal recovery.

Hindsight being what it is...with the day walking around yesterday and the temps today and how I was feeling...I should have backed off and stuck to a long run.Last week's 15 was so darn good...this week's just sucked.Though, I get a recovery week which is much needed.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Failed at my second marathon pace run in a row. I was scheduled for 15 w/ 12 at MP, but at mile 11 I decided to shut it down and ran just one more mile at long-run pace. Heart rate was higher than it should have been and I got that dreaded "done" feeling. Suck factor was at about 130 and I'm sure I was still fatigued from some of my runs earlier in the week. Disappointing though, of course. I can't see myself PRing this October unless possibly it's like 40 degrees or something.

I don't know how the rest of your training is going, and you're way faster than me anyway, but like I said earlier I find these MP runs to be really hard. I completely understand that most of that is just the fact that every single run I do now is on tired legs so everything is much harder than it would be after a few weeks of taper, but still. These things are supposed to be confidence-building but I've found them to be anything but that.

Overall, my training has been OK. I've had no problem with my regular long runs and my speed work has been OK, but the MP runs have been brutal. It wasn't like this at all this spring. My MP runs were those huge confidence builders you mention they should be. I'd even found myself pushing the pace faster than planned which got me eyeing a Boston qualifying time in the first place. Obviously summer temperatures are a huge factor now. Spring marathons are so much easier to train for. Another problem for me is I'm coming off a marathon with near perfect conditions and a time that exceeded my expectations. My new MP seems to be one that I can only sustain when well rested and/or in cool temperatures. Maybe if I pushed mileage up to that 18/70 plan but I'll wait to try that for my Boston training.Anyway, I'm running a 1/2 marathon in two weeks. I have a hard week of training this week and then will rest a lot the week before the half. That should give me a decent idea where I'm at when I'm not fatigued and I'm race-motivated.

 

[BassNBrew]

Failed at my second marathon pace run in a row. I was scheduled for 15 w/ 12 at MP, but at mile 11 I decided to shut it down and ran just one more mile at long-run pace. Heart rate was higher than it should have been and I got that dreaded "done" feeling. Suck factor was at about 130 and I'm sure I was still fatigued from some of my runs earlier in the week. Disappointing though, of course. I can't see myself PRing this October unless possibly it's like 40 degrees or something.

Is anyone using Training Effect? I'm curious about what some of you might think about it in general. From a search of the thread, it appears BnB uses/used it but hasn't mentioned it recently. I get these scores automatically with my new Garmin. I hadn't looked at them before but noticed I scored a 5.0 (Overreaching) for the first time this run. That helps me not feel so bad for stopping.

I haven't been using it because I don't train regularly enough for it to be accurate.Lots of good reading for you here http://ns.suunto.com/pdf/t6_Training_Guidebook_EN.pdf

 

[SteelCurtain]

I've had lingering heel pain now for a week. I don't notice it running, but walking barefoot around the house, I notice it.

I've decided to just take a couple days off to see if that will relieve it. I don't want to make it bigger than it is, but I also would like to not have to manage this until my marathon in November.

I'll run Wednesday AM and see how we are feeling.

Have a great day!

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I've had lingering heel pain now for a week. I don't notice it running, but walking barefoot around the house, I notice it. I've decided to just take a couple days off to see if that will relieve it. I don't want to make it bigger than it is, but I also would like to not have to manage this until my marathon in November. I'll run Wednesday AM and see how we are feeling.Have a great day!

Don't forget to ice this.

 

[Sand]

This was pretty funny.

 

[MAC_32]

Without knowing some of your race PRs, I'd suggest slowing your long runs way down. Doing them all at goal marathon pace is a recipe for disaster. The majority of your long runs should be 15% or more slower than MP. For an 8:30 marathon, you should be running your long runs around 9:45. Being this is your first, you should consider going even slower.

Just to add to what Ned has already said, there is a gigantic difference in distance between 16 miles and 26.2 miles. The difficulty of maintaing pace grows exponentially once you get much beyond that distance, especially so after mile 20, give or take. If this is your first marathon, it's much better to pick a time goal that seems over-conservative now. Or just focusing on finishing and save time goals for marathon #2.

I remember Ivan giving me this advice for my first marathon (yr and a half already?!) and I just couldn't grasp the thought. I eventually paid the price at mile 18. The last 8.2mi were the worst miles of my life. It's quite humbling to be walking at mile 20 knowing you still have 6.2 more to go.

Granted my marathon was done while battling a bout of shin splints in the weeks prior so my training was cut short, but miles 1-18 were a breeze, 18-20 was tough, and 20-26 absolutely soul crushing.

I know thins has been asked before but when do you us start carrying water with you on your runs? I am currently at 7 miles and not carrying any water. These are generally morning runs on an empty stomach. Just curious if it is 10 miles or what?

Anything more than an hour, whatever your pace is. I've topped off around 8 after running a 10 and a 9 in July and that takes me just about an hour or a little slower if I'm on a 'slow' day. Anymore and I need aqua.I had a slow week, only 20 miles but 6 1/2 of them were yesterday's Warrior Dash. Buddy of mine and I decided to double dip, me because I needed to play catch up and him because he'd never run more than 5 miles before. VERY happy with our splits, 31:30 trial one and only a minute slower the second time through. Had I been going solo I'd have probably been 2-3 mins faster the first time through and a minute or 2 the second. He's good on the obstacles but the longer stretches of running I found myself holding back a bit. VERY impressive scenery too, love those events.

 

[Follows Closely]

I have been reading up on slowing down and adding in recovery runs, thanks for the directions guys. This morning I slowed down my pace to and ran a 9:33 for 4.5 miles. I found it harder than I expected to slow down just a little bit. My legs feel good compared to the usual heaviness after I run. I had a hard time not sprinting that last mile.

 

[Ned]

I have been reading up on slowing down and adding in recovery runs, thanks for the directions guys. This morning I slowed down my pace to and ran a 9:33 for 4.5 miles. I found it harder than I expected to slow down just a little bit. My legs feel good compared to the usual heaviness after I run. I had a hard time not sprinting that last mile.

Resist that urge... Think long term (marathon). Your #1 goal is to build your aerobic fitness. Sprinting it out won't accomplish that.

 

[beer 302]

I have been reading up on slowing down and adding in recovery runs, thanks for the directions guys. This morning I slowed down my pace to and ran a 9:33 for 4.5 miles. I found it harder than I expected to slow down just a little bit. My legs feel good compared to the usual heaviness after I run. I had a hard time not sprinting that last mile.

Resist that urge... Think long term (marathon). Your #1 goal is to build your aerobic fitness. Sprinting it out won't accomplish that.

BAH! 10ish today (9.7 for beer 302). Was supposed to do 5x800's today, didn't remember that until about a mile in. For some reason I had this 10 planned in my head, laid out a new hilly course to hit and was pumped until I remembered what I was supposed to be doing. Decided to just go as hard as I could. Was really hoping to be at 10:00 minute pace but ended up at 10:26. Hills are good for something right? Anyway, done up & down for a while. Maybe next week, for a guy that was loathe to run hills in the past I'm enjoying them these days.

 

[Monsieur Meursault]

Hotter'N Hell 100 this past Saturday. Rode with my 68 year old dad. We made it to mile 60 when they closed the course. Asphalt temperature was reading 127 degrees, and it was really windy. Practically the last 30 miles of the 100 mile course was straight into the wind.

 

[pigskinliquors]

Today, I didn't want to start.

Yet you did These are usually the most important runs, as you learn to work through the demons in your head!

I know thins has been asked before but when do you us start carrying water with you on your runs? I am currently at 7 miles and not carrying any water. These are generally morning runs on an empty stomach. Just curious if it is 10 miles or what?

I used to not carry any water until I hit 10 miles, but if you have heat/humidity (90+ for either) I'd recommend water for even 30 minute runs.

Thanks for the advice guys. I will try to run a 9something next long run.

You did it! FWIW: the urge to sprint in will never leave. It is a battle that you have to win if you want to stay healthy. Save your speed for speed workouts only.

Not a great day for a run...but finished a 44 mile week with that last mile of walking...so I am overall satisfied...just wishing the cooler temps would have stayed.

GREAT week Sho!!!

Pfitz 18/70 week #6 (recovery week)

Tue (8mi GA) - 60/59 this morning. These cooler temps are like crack. I was rollin' but had a hard time keeping a steady pace. 8:31/147

Wed (12mi MLR) - 63/61. I felt really strong today. 9:07/139 Unreal HR at that pace for me.

Thur (5mi recovery) - Being a recovery week I decided to not run today and get some rest. Also got a DT massage.

Fri (10mi MLR) - 64/60. I just felt off today. Glutes were pretty sore after the massage. 9:11/142

Sat (5mi recovery) - 78/64. Muggy weather is creeping back in. Felt OK, but still felt weird. 10:12/132

Sun (15mi MLR) 76/67. Yuck. I felt like crap. 143suck didn't help. I just wanted to get the run over with. Amazing how different the 120s vs 140s feel like. 9:27/144

50 mi total for the week.

GREAT week Ned!!!

I guess I should do an update here. Rocketman Olympic tri done today. 18/43 in AG. 3/43 swim, 9/43 bike (not bad, but certainly not great). Then blew up, side stitches, etc. on the run with a 1:03. ####### embarrassment. Third attempt at an Olympic and I'm just not capable of racing them. I sucked and really had no fun. Given the shape I'm I doubt I'll ever be able to race these - I have no more time available to get in any better shape than I am in right now.

Good thing the season is almost over.

I'd think Oly's would be a great distance for you Bud. The swim is weighted more than any other, and the run is shorter. Get your butt in shape and you will kick this distances ###!!

Failed at my second marathon pace run in a row. I was scheduled for 15 w/ 12 at MP, but at mile 11 I decided to shut it down and ran just one more mile at long-run pace. Heart rate was higher than it should have been and I got that dreaded "done" feeling. Suck factor was at about 130 and I'm sure I was still fatigued from some of my runs earlier in the week. Disappointing though, of course. I can't see myself PRing this October unless possibly it's like 40 degrees or something.

Is anyone using Training Effect? I'm curious about what some of you might think about it in general. From a search of the thread, it appears BnB uses/used it but hasn't mentioned it recently. I get these scores automatically with my new Garmin. I hadn't looked at them before but noticed I scored a 5.0 (Overreaching) for the first time this run. That helps me not feel so bad for stopping.

Jux: This time of the year, a lot of runs blowup. October will be very different weather wise. Keep working through these sucky workouts, and make sure you get your legs some rest and a PR is still very possible. Fatigued legs and heat will suck the life out of runs. Getting through them in crappy weather will make them much easier later.

This was pretty funny.

Love it! Good to know that farting is only $5. $15 for doing a McConougheying is a bit steep though = I'd better change that behavior. _______________________

My update:

I got two rides in over the weekend. Saturday was a sucky 26 miler in 20+ MPH winds. The first 21 miles I worked my ### off to maintain 20.0 MPH, but I decided it wasn't worth killing myself, so I backed off for the last 5. Sunday was a fast 15 at 21.4 MPH. I also did P90x Back and Chest yesterday and had 7 PR's on lifts (6 on back, one on chest) :flex: Today will be Plyo, followed by four half mile intervals, with quarter mile rests.

 

[pigskinliquors]

Hotter'N Hell 100 this past Saturday. Rode with my 68 year old dad. We made it to mile 60 when they closed the course. Asphalt temperature was reading 127 degrees, and it was really windy. Practically the last 30 miles of the 100 mile course was straight into the wind.

Tough year for it. That race is hit or miss. Did you get to finish past Hell's Gate, or did you stop there?

 

[Monsieur Meursault]

Hotter'N Hell 100 this past Saturday. Rode with my 68 year old dad. We made it to mile 60 when they closed the course. Asphalt temperature was reading 127 degrees, and it was really windy. Practically the last 30 miles of the 100 mile course was straight into the wind.

Tough year for it. That race is hit or miss. Did you get to finish past Hell's Gate, or did you stop there?

For whatever reason, there wasn't an official Hell's Gate this year. At least not that I could tell anyway. At about mile 75, all of the longer courses (50mi, 100K, and 100mi) merged together for the final 25 miles. It was weird, but when we got to this 75 mile rest stop, there were still 50-milers and 100Kers coming past. And they still had 25 miles to go. It just seemed unusual that my dad and I were in the back of the 100-mile riders, and there were still the shorter course riders coming through that late.My dad has a recumbent tandem that we would always ride together in years past. Not my favorite way to ride, but I would do it for him. I wasn't sure I was going to be able to go this year, and my dad was going to do it by himself. I ended up going and surprised my dad by just showing up the night before. (We camp outside in the parking lots) So we both had road bikes this year. Pop was not used to riding upright, and it was pretty tough on him.We were at the 60 mile rest stop when they closed the course. So we took the sag wagon to near the end of the course. They let us get out and ride through the finish line, so we at least got to finish the course and get our medals.Cool thing about it this year... the course went through Sheppard Air Force base. Got to see a bunch fighter jets, vintage fighter planes, and cargo planes. And about 100-200 cadets line up and cheer on the riders as they pass through hootin and hollerin, giving high-fives and pats-on-the-back. Thought that was pretty cool.

 

[Juxtatarot]

I guess I should do an update here. Rocketman Olympic tri done today. 18/43 in AG. 3/43 swim, 9/43 bike (not bad, but certainly not great). Then blew up, side stitches, etc. on the run with a 1:03. ####### embarrassment. Third attempt at an Olympic and I'm just not capable of racing them. I sucked and really had no fun. Given the shape I'm I doubt I'll ever be able to race these - I have no more time available to get in any better shape than I am in right now.Good thing the season is almost over.

It seems like the run is always your Achilles' heal. Have you ever thought about having a run-only (or mainly) focus for a season ala Tri-man?

 

[Sand]

It seems like the run is always your Achilles' heal. Have you ever thought about having a run-only (or mainly) focus for a season ala Tri-man?

I always run a lot in the winter/spring. Got hurt last year a number of times, so that may have something to do with it. Volume has been pretty low this year, all told. I have no interest in run-only, though. I need the variety.

Sorry to hear that Sand. How were the bike and swim times?

Swim was good - 12th out of a few hundred. Bike was ok - I was great up until about mile 18 and then started suffering. Not really sure why. I put in a 1:06, though it should have been a minute or two faster.

 

[pigskinliquors]

Hotter'N Hell 100 this past Saturday. Rode with my 68 year old dad. We made it to mile 60 when they closed the course. Asphalt temperature was reading 127 degrees, and it was really windy. Practically the last 30 miles of the 100 mile course was straight into the wind.

Tough year for it. That race is hit or miss. Did you get to finish past Hell's Gate, or did you stop there?

For whatever reason, there wasn't an official Hell's Gate this year. At least not that I could tell anyway. At about mile 75, all of the longer courses (50mi, 100K, and 100mi) merged together for the final 25 miles. It was weird, but when we got to this 75 mile rest stop, there were still 50-milers and 100Kers coming past. And they still had 25 miles to go. It just seemed unusual that my dad and I were in the back of the 100-mile riders, and there were still the shorter course riders coming through that late.My dad has a recumbent tandem that we would always ride together in years past. Not my favorite way to ride, but I would do it for him. I wasn't sure I was going to be able to go this year, and my dad was going to do it by himself. I ended up going and surprised my dad by just showing up the night before. (We camp outside in the parking lots) So we both had road bikes this year. Pop was not used to riding upright, and it was pretty tough on him.We were at the 60 mile rest stop when they closed the course. So we took the sag wagon to near the end of the course. They let us get out and ride through the finish line, so we at least got to finish the course and get our medals.Cool thing about it this year... the course went through Sheppard Air Force base. Got to see a bunch fighter jets, vintage fighter planes, and cargo planes. And about 100-200 cadets line up and cheer on the riders as they pass through hootin and hollerin, giving high-fives and pats-on-the-back. Thought that was pretty cool.

Awesome that you got to share that with your Pops With as flat as it is in much of Texas, the wind at least gives some challenge. The heat and wind from this weekend sucked (I certainly struggled in it).

 

[BassNBrew]

Hotter'N Hell 100 this past Saturday. Rode with my 68 year old dad. We made it to mile 60 when they closed the course. Asphalt temperature was reading 127 degrees, and it was really windy. Practically the last 30 miles of the 100 mile course was straight into the wind.

Tough year for it. That race is hit or miss. Did you get to finish past Hell's Gate, or did you stop there?

For whatever reason, there wasn't an official Hell's Gate this year. At least not that I could tell anyway. At about mile 75, all of the longer courses (50mi, 100K, and 100mi) merged together for the final 25 miles. It was weird, but when we got to this 75 mile rest stop, there were still 50-milers and 100Kers coming past. And they still had 25 miles to go. It just seemed unusual that my dad and I were in the back of the 100-mile riders, and there were still the shorter course riders coming through that late.My dad has a recumbent tandem that we would always ride together in years past. Not my favorite way to ride, but I would do it for him. I wasn't sure I was going to be able to go this year, and my dad was going to do it by himself. I ended up going and surprised my dad by just showing up the night before. (We camp outside in the parking lots) So we both had road bikes this year. Pop was not used to riding upright, and it was pretty tough on him.We were at the 60 mile rest stop when they closed the course. So we took the sag wagon to near the end of the course. They let us get out and ride through the finish line, so we at least got to finish the course and get our medals.Cool thing about it this year... the course went through Sheppard Air Force base. Got to see a bunch fighter jets, vintage fighter planes, and cargo planes. And about 100-200 cadets line up and cheer on the riders as they pass through hootin and hollerin, giving high-fives and pats-on-the-back. Thought that was pretty cool.

Really cool report.

 

[gruecd]

Failed at my second marathon pace run in a row. I was scheduled for 15 w/ 12 at MP, but at mile 11 I decided to shut it down and ran just one more mile at long-run pace. Heart rate was higher than it should have been and I got that dreaded "done" feeling. Suck factor was at about 130 and I'm sure I was still fatigued from some of my runs earlier in the week. Disappointing though, of course. I can't see myself PRing this October unless possibly it's like 40 degrees or something.

Is anyone using Training Effect? I'm curious about what some of you might think about it in general. From a search of the thread, it appears BnB uses/used it but hasn't mentioned it recently. I get these scores automatically with my new Garmin. I hadn't looked at them before but noticed I scored a 5.0 (Overreaching) for the first time this run. That helps me not feel so bad for stopping.

Jux: This time of the year, a lot of runs blowup.

Ain't that the truth... For whatever reason, I thought it would be a good idea to attempt a hilly 16-miler less than a week after finishing Ragnar. I would never attempt such a thing post-marathon, but apparently I thought that it would be different after the 34+ relay miles. Wrong.

64/59 when I started, and I was fine for the first 5-6 miles before the wheels came off. Up to 81/59 by the time I was done, and since I inexplicably chose a course totally devoid of any shade, I was positively baking in the sun the entire time. Walked the vast majority of the last 5 miles and had a hard time breathing anytime I'd try to run. Basically collapsed on the grass when I was done and nearly passed out in the shower afterwards. I finished my run around 10:15 AM, and I didn't pee until after 9 PM. Apparently I was a little dehydrated...

Anyway, priority shifts now to getting ready for my unofficial 3:30 pacing gig on Sunday. Took yesterday off, and I've decided that I'll do minimal running this week so that I'm hopefully fresh and ready to run next weekend. Probably just an easy 5-6 miles tonight and another rest day tomorrow.

 

[BassNBrew]

Failed at my second marathon pace run in a row. I was scheduled for 15 w/ 12 at MP, but at mile 11 I decided to shut it down and ran just one more mile at long-run pace. Heart rate was higher than it should have been and I got that dreaded "done" feeling. Suck factor was at about 130 and I'm sure I was still fatigued from some of my runs earlier in the week. Disappointing though, of course. I can't see myself PRing this October unless possibly it's like 40 degrees or something.

Is anyone using Training Effect? I'm curious about what some of you might think about it in general. From a search of the thread, it appears BnB uses/used it but hasn't mentioned it recently. I get these scores automatically with my new Garmin. I hadn't looked at them before but noticed I scored a 5.0 (Overreaching) for the first time this run. That helps me not feel so bad for stopping.

Jux: This time of the year, a lot of runs blowup.

Ain't that the truth... For whatever reason, I thought it would be a good idea to attempt a hilly 16-miler less than a week after finishing Ragnar. I would never attempt such a thing post-marathon, but apparently I thought that it would be different after the 34+ relay miles. Wrong.

64/59 when I started, and I was fine for the first 5-6 miles before the wheels came off. Up to 81/59 by the time I was done, and since I inexplicably chose a course totally devoid of any shade, I was positively baking in the sun the entire time. Walked the vast majority of the last 5 miles and had a hard time breathing anytime I'd try to run. Basically collapsed on the grass when I was done and nearly passed out in the shower afterwards. I finished my run around 10:15 AM, and I didn't pee until after 9 PM. Apparently I was a little dehydrated...

Anyway, priority shifts now to getting ready for my unofficial 3:30 pacing gig on Sunday. Took yesterday off, and I've decided that I'll do minimal running this week so that I'm hopefully fresh and ready to run next weekend. Probably just an easy 5-6 miles tonight and another rest day tomorrow.

Actually this is better training for your ultra than pounding out consistant miles every week.

 

[gruecd]

Actually this is better training for your ultra than pounding out consistant miles every week.

Yeah, I posted a brief recap on Facebook, and one of my ultrarunner friends commented, "Congrats, you found your dark place."I assume that's basically what you're getting at, too.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Grue, it seems like you didn't bring enough water. I wonder if you would have been OK if you had stayed properly hydrated.

 

[BassNBrew]

Actually this is better training for your ultra than pounding out consistant miles every week.

Yeah, I posted a brief recap on Facebook, and one of my ultrarunner friends commented, "Congrats, you found your dark place."I assume that's basically what you're getting at, too.

Yeah, that hurt you put on yourself will likely do more good than two 8 mile days. You already have an immortal base. Throwing the body curves is generally good and that crazy relay fits the bill.A lot of ultra guys take 2 days off a week and some cross train a 3rd day and only run 4 days. Personally I'd lean towards a 25/15/10/bike = 50 mi week (with those two long runs being back to back) over a 7x10 = 70 mi week.It's getting close to your big day!

 

[prosopis]

I did six miles at a 9:40 pace today.

 

[SteelCurtain]

I've had lingering heel pain now for a week. I don't notice it running, but walking barefoot around the house, I notice it. I've decided to just take a couple days off to see if that will relieve it. I don't want to make it bigger than it is, but I also would like to not have to manage this until my marathon in November. I'll run Wednesday AM and see how we are feeling.Have a great day!

Don't forget to ice this.

Just did. There is no difference in discomfort in the last three days which has me worried. Was hoping they would start feeling better.

 

[BassNBrew]

I've had lingering heel pain now for a week. I don't notice it running, but walking barefoot around the house, I notice it. I've decided to just take a couple days off to see if that will relieve it. I don't want to make it bigger than it is, but I also would like to not have to manage this until my marathon in November. I'll run Wednesday AM and see how we are feeling.Have a great day!

Don't forget to ice this.

Just did. There is no difference in discomfort in the last three days which has me worried. Was hoping they would start feeling better.

Calf raises/stretches. I try to get on a machine and do heavy single legs and finish with a 10 second stretch. I think that stretches the achilles and foot muscles.

 

[BassNBrew]

Fall training officially kicked off tonite. Unfortunately the mid 80 degree temps and Issac air didn't agree. 8 miles @ 10:22 pace. 7 in zone 1, 1 in zone 2. I really noticed the extra 8 pounds I put on in the last two weeks on the hills.

May put some pen to paper and scratch out a training plan as fall/winter races are right around the corner.

 

[tri-man 47]

Grue, it seems like you didn't bring enough water. I wonder if you would have been OK if you had stayed properly hydrated.

Although this gets back to walnutz' question about bringing fluids, too. As I found out Saturday (16 miles in tough conditions), it gets beyond the matter of fluids. It's also a matter of gels, electrolytes, etc. The body needs energy, for lack of a fuller description, and it's too easy to overlook the necessary planning for that.Sand - hey, sorry to hear about your race. You continue to face tough training and racing conditions down there. Hopefully you'll figure out what it is that holds you back on those longer races.

 

[BassNBrew]

http://www.blackmountainmarathon.com/

Anyone going to toss their hat in the lottery with me?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Last week's LT session got moved indoors due to thunderstorms, so when I came into campus this morning for 9 w/ 5 x 1000, I was highly motivated to stay off the treadmill despite the constant barrage of lightning. It only sprinkled/showered on and off through the warmup and the first few intervals, but then the sky finally opened up just before interval #4, leaving me to do the last couple intervals and my cooldown in the middle of a decent downpour. This ended up being a really welcome psychological pick-me-up. I didn't pace these intervals very well -- average pace was 7:10, which is about right for this distance, but each one was faster than the last with the final one at 6:47, which means I was dogging the first couple -- but at least I got to feel like a badass by running on the track in pouring rain and rumbling thunder.

 

[SteelCurtain]

I've had lingering heel pain now for a week. I don't notice it running, but walking barefoot around the house, I notice it. I've decided to just take a couple days off to see if that will relieve it. I don't want to make it bigger than it is, but I also would like to not have to manage this until my marathon in November. I'll run Wednesday AM and see how we are feeling.Have a great day!

Don't forget to ice this.

Just did. There is no difference in discomfort in the last three days which has me worried. Was hoping they would start feeling better.

Calf raises/stretches. I try to get on a machine and do heavy single legs and finish with a 10 second stretch. I think that stretches the achilles and foot muscles.

I did a bunch of calf raises and stretches this AM. Also iced it again. Starting to feel a bit better. I don't know if its just because I'm avoid any pressure on my heel without shoes on.Hoping for the best here. Might have to dial back my 5K and 10K races this Monday.

 

[SteelCurtain]

http://www.blackmountainmarathon.com/Anyone going to toss their hat in the lottery with me?

just completely bad ###. You are the man.

 

[BassNBrew]

I've had lingering heel pain now for a week. I don't notice it running, but walking barefoot around the house, I notice it. I've decided to just take a couple days off to see if that will relieve it. I don't want to make it bigger than it is, but I also would like to not have to manage this until my marathon in November. I'll run Wednesday AM and see how we are feeling.Have a great day!

Don't forget to ice this.

Just did. There is no difference in discomfort in the last three days which has me worried. Was hoping they would start feeling better.

Calf raises/stretches. I try to get on a machine and do heavy single legs and finish with a 10 second stretch. I think that stretches the achilles and foot muscles.

I did a bunch of calf raises and stretches this AM. Also iced it again. Starting to feel a bit better. I don't know if its just because I'm avoid any pressure on my heel without shoes on.Hoping for the best here. Might have to dial back my 5K and 10K races this Monday.

4-7 days is usually when I feel the improvement from resistance training.Exactly what part of your heel is hurting?5k and 10k???

 

[BassNBrew]

Last week's LT session got moved indoors due to thunderstorms, so when I came into campus this morning for 9 w/ 5 x 1000, I was highly motivated to stay off the treadmill despite the constant barrage of lightning. It only sprinkled/showered on and off through the warmup and the first few intervals, but then the sky finally opened up just before interval #4, leaving me to do the last couple intervals and my cooldown in the middle of a decent downpour. This ended up being a really welcome psychological pick-me-up. I didn't pace these intervals very well -- average pace was 7:10, which is about right for this distance, but each one was faster than the last with the final one at 6:47, which means I was dogging the first couple -- but at least I got to feel like a badass by running on the track in pouring rain and rumbling thunder.

STrange how we feel like a badass when running and it starts to pour in the middle of the run, but would think anyone headed out in a downpour is a #######.Good job on knocking them out.

 

[BassNBrew]

I did six miles at a 9:40 pace today.

Congrats. My notebook may be out of date, but this sounds like a break thru run???

 

[beer 302]

Rise & grind day today, if I woulda stayed 1 more minute in bed this morning I wouldn't have made it out. This 3:30am stuff wears on ya after a few days in a row. Like BnB said the suck index is back to #### at 143 today 72/71. After the weekend it was kinda depressing. Tuesday's are my crazy days, 5 mile recovery run, change and then down to the gym for some lifting. Feel good after but it was a struggle to get through.

Nice job prosopis!

Bnb, you're nuts

Sand, I have no point of reference to even speak intelligently on what you went through but I can appreciate disappointment. Don't let it get you down, file it away and move forward. Gotta have the NFL QB mentality.

Steelcurtain, much as I hate giving any kind of help to a squealer fan, don't mess around with that. I thought I had plantar fasciitis, went to a foot doc for 6 months before I found out I psoriatic arthritis. Got on a drug regime that took the pain away within 2 weeks. Before that I could hardly walk. Point being, if you aren't seeing improvement, get it checked.

Grue, you're nuts

 

[BassNBrew]

Rise & grind day today, if I woulda stayed 1 more minute in bed this morning I wouldn't have made it out. This 3:30am stuff wears on ya after a few days in a row. Like BnB said the suck index is back to #### at 143 today 72/71. After the weekend it was kinda depressing.

Looks like the temp dropped during my run last nite from 85 to 80 and the dew pt went for 65 to 70.This morning was a lovely 74/71. 3 mi recovery at 10:57, 127 hr. Legs were dead but that's what you get for starting back up with an 8 miler.

 

[koby925]

That Black Mountain Marathon is insane

I usually don't carry any water or gel packs but maybe I should. Some of these longer runs in the humidity wipe me out for the rest of the day.

Finished my log week with an easy 10 on Saturday morning and a slower paced but not easy (due to sucky humidity) 6 on Sunday.

Week total 44.2

Started the new week yesterday afternoon with 9 miles in 63:25 (7:03 avg) with last two miles in 6:41 pace. Didn't set out to go that pace, especially because today is a planned interval day, but I felt good.

The calves and achilles have felt ok lately and I don't want to mess with a good thing. So I'm gonna stay off the track today and just do some repeat miles on trails.

 

[Juxtatarot]

I've had lingering heel pain now for a week. I don't notice it running, but walking barefoot around the house, I notice it. I've decided to just take a couple days off to see if that will relieve it. I don't want to make it bigger than it is, but I also would like to not have to manage this until my marathon in November. I'll run Wednesday AM and see how we are feeling.Have a great day!

Ugh! I have the same or similar injury. Actually, I've have it off and on for several months, but this morning it feels worse than I ever remember. My normal approach is to ignore these nagging type injuries, particularly if it goes away after being warmed up. I know this is a dangerous approach but it's normally worked OK for me in the past. I'm a little nervous now and am thinking about taking a couple days off.

Last week's LT session got moved indoors due to thunderstorms, so when I came into campus this morning for 9 w/ 5 x 1000, I was highly motivated to stay off the treadmill despite the constant barrage of lightning. It only sprinkled/showered on and off through the warmup and the first few intervals, but then the sky finally opened up just before interval #4, leaving me to do the last couple intervals and my cooldown in the middle of a decent downpour. This ended up being a really welcome psychological pick-me-up. I didn't pace these intervals very well -- average pace was 7:10, which is about right for this distance, but each one was faster than the last with the final one at 6:47, which means I was dogging the first couple -- but at least I got to feel like a badass by running on the track in pouring rain and rumbling thunder.

I think you needed that confidence builder about now. Hopefully this does it. Nice run!

 

[sho nuff]

73/68 when I was about to head out at 5:30.

Was not looking forward to that considering the sun had yet to really rise. Contemplated turning the alarm off this morning and working the run in some other way today.

After Sunday's run, I had planned to take this 8 mile GA at somewhere around 10:30-10:45/mile to keep in that 147-150 avg HR.

What a freaking fantastic run. Started by running out of the house with 3 tiny deer chowing some grass across the street. We see deer like this all the time and these little ones are now apparently oblivious to people being around them as I was probably about 10-12 feet away and they did not move.

Instead of 10:30+ per mile.

10:06/mile 149 AVG HR.

I could not believe how the HR was responding as it kept feeling warmer.

Complete turn around from Sunday's run and how I felt.

On a more personal note. Cancer can kiss my mother f'ing ###.

Im glad I got out for this run this morning...one of the things that inspires me and drives me is a woman named Sara Walker. I mentioned her last year as a ran a 5k for her and her family. I also brought her up not long ago as her condition had gotten bad and hospice was called in.

I found out just a little while ago that she breathed her last breath at 3am this morning. On one hand I am very happy that her suffering on this earth is over. And that I do believe in an afterlife and she can now be with her little girl that was still born a few years ago (that sort of led to finding out she had cancer).

But extremely heart broken for her husband, 2 little boys and family. I just can't imagine going through that with my wife and having to tell my children their mother is sick and now gone. My wife is very broken up over this and may end up coming home from work...just unable to concentrate. She was pretty good friends with the husband in college having 2 of her hardest courses with him and being in study groups with him and others.

I appreciate all the kind thoughts and prayers last time I brought it up and anything you can do today to remember a woman who fought her hind end off to beat cancer.

Thanks.

 

[SteelCurtain]

I've had lingering heel pain now for a week. I don't notice it running, but walking barefoot around the house, I notice it. I've decided to just take a couple days off to see if that will relieve it. I don't want to make it bigger than it is, but I also would like to not have to manage this until my marathon in November. I'll run Wednesday AM and see how we are feeling.Have a great day!

Don't forget to ice this.

Just did. There is no difference in discomfort in the last three days which has me worried. Was hoping they would start feeling better.

Calf raises/stretches. I try to get on a machine and do heavy single legs and finish with a 10 second stretch. I think that stretches the achilles and foot muscles.

I did a bunch of calf raises and stretches this AM. Also iced it again. Starting to feel a bit better. I don't know if its just because I'm avoid any pressure on my heel without shoes on.Hoping for the best here. Might have to dial back my 5K and 10K races this Monday.

4-7 days is usually when I feel the improvement from resistance training.Exactly what part of your heel is hurting?5k and 10k???

My heel is "tender" on the pad part of the heel. It does not extend to the arch or up the achilles at all. Honestly, it feels like a heel bruise. It doesn't feel muscular at all. In addition, when I run, I have a mid-foot strike so it doesn't bother me. When I walk without shoes in the house is when it has the most discomfort. I'm inclined to ice again tonight and try to go for an easy 5 miles tomorrow AM. Ice post run and see how we feel.I traditionally do a 5K and 10K back to back races on Labor Day. Its all part of a longer run (15-17 miles). I'm not sure what I'll do. If I have no pain or discomfort running, should I just continue?