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Ran a 10k in June (10 Viewers)
- Thread starter GStrot
- Start date
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Nice job on C&B - that's hardcore! Out of curiosity, how many total push-ups are you doing for that workout? I want to give Dexter some much deserved credit on the HIM - brother doesn't get to train much because he travels CONSTANTLY supporting our men & women in uniform. He still showed up, put it all out there, and finished 70.3. I think most people in his position wouldn't have had the guts to start, let alone finish. But he did, and I'm very proud to have run the race with him.Awesome race all three of you!!! Wraith, unbelievable podium. 2Y, awesome to come back that strong, showing that race recovery and taper can be done at the same time. Turkish; outstanding way to kick off a tri career!!!Sunday I did P90x chest and back (= the first of the 5 lifting workouts). I somehow PR'd on 21 of 24 lifts/pushups; two of them tied PR's; and the other (freaking second round of diamond pushups) was well below a PR. This workout was after tailgating all day for the A&M/FL game (my caloric intake had to be record breaking), and getting just a couple hours of sleep due to extracurricular activity. This was by far my best P90 workout I've ever had. I truly feel in the best shape I've been in, in over 20 years right now
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pigskinliquors
Dr. Parrothead
Per set (2 different pushups per set), using push-up bars to add depth, I did: 78, 50, 36, 48, 38, 26 = 276 total Set 1 & 4 = Standard and Military Set 2 & 5 = Wide fly and declineSet 3 & 6 = Diamond and Dive Bomber (this set sux) As for Dexter = Majorly awesome that he completed it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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sho nuff
Footballguy
Keep doing them...maybe someday you will slow down closer to the rest of us mortals.
pigskinliquors
Dr. Parrothead
This! In my experience with ultras (only one 50k) it certainly slowed me down, but once I completed it, and got back on my normal marathon training schedule, my prior speed (term used loosely when talking to you) came back as soon as I started doing typical speed work.Keep doing them...maybe someday you will slow down closer to the rest of us mortals.
wraith5
Footballguy
Tip of the Day: Don't hold your breath. When I was doing P90X (planning to start again in Dec) it was a good day if I could clear 200. You are an f'ing beast.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Speed for what? 100 meter dashes?
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
That makes intuitive sense.This! In my experience with ultras (only one 50k) it certainly slowed me down, but once I completed it, and got back on my normal marathon training schedule, my prior speed (term used loosely when talking to you) came back as soon as I started doing typical speed work.Keep doing them...maybe someday you will slow down closer to the rest of us mortals.
Sand
Footballguy
Bull####.
wraith5
Footballguy
How can it not make you slower? The way to run fast is to run fast.
Kind of a funny comment coming from and IM triathlete. Does training for an IM make you slower at the Olympic distance? Maybe at the elite level over a long period of time.Can you add a little more context to the statement? Is he referring to someone like you doing their first or one of these guys that does 12 a year for several years? If it's the later, I think most of these types graviate to trail running in general which won't lend itself to speed work. The personality type is also into running more for the joy of running and experience where triathletes and marathon types are more goal and fitness oriented types. My experience thus far is that many of the true ultra guys don't have gps/hr stuff and are likely to camp before an event moreso than roadies. Personally my biggest speed gain ever came doing the 100 run in 100 days program two years ago. I don't know what the ultra program did last year for me running wise as I immediately transitioned to the bike and abandoned running. I did pr my bike century by more than 15 minutes but that would fall into the same type of event. It just gets too hot down here for speed during the summer.This cycle I'm going to incorporate speed work into my ultra training program. I guess I should add some periodic 5ks to my training program to have some benchmarks.
Sand
Footballguy
You're probably yanking my chain here, but to be serious for a sec, here is the chart that answers all questions. Note that for all but the shortest races the endurance (aerobic component) is hugely dominant. You can achieve a huge amount without doing any speed work.I won't embarrass myself by quoting PRs, but my HM PR time is pretty reasonable and I did exactly zero speedwork. I know I'm not alone here.'wraith5 said:
gruecd
Footballguy
Registered this morning for my 5th Boston Marathon (4th consecutive). Gonna train my ### off this winter in the hope that the weather cooperatates and I can finally run a decent race out there. Right now, it's Boston 3, me 1.
Ran 10-milers Monday and Tuesday, hoping for 7-8 today over lunch. Nothing special, just putting in the miles.
Ran 10-milers Monday and Tuesday, hoping for 7-8 today over lunch. Nothing special, just putting in the miles.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Just to get my race vibe going before Boston in 2011, I did a 5K ten days before the spring marathon. Just from the power of the endurance training, I ran the race 25 seconds faster than a 5K I'd trained for the previous fall.
ThreeThousand
Footballguy
LOL - I've done that beforeI ran out of T2 with my helmet still on. The crowd was there for me and let me know... otherwise I probably would have been a good mile or so out before I realized.That's OK. I had a good laugh a couple of weeks ago when one of my friends told me how she accidentally ran a half-mile wearing her bike helmet during a brick workout....Proof that your head is certainly not right coming off the bike, I put my running sunglasses propped on my forehead while leaving mike bike glasses on and ran out of T2 with 2 pair of sunglasses on. I realized I'd left my bike glasses when I went to drop my running glasses down.You HIM guys are inspirational. Seriously. The thought of running a HM after swimming/biking for ~4hrs:XCarry those medals proud.
2Young2BBald
Footbaldguy
Hey Sand, I am already thinking bucket list events for next year and am noodling doing a 5K Swim. I am back to biweekly pool access for the winter and am wondering if I should target one swim a month for a pure distance swim as part of a build up to a 5K swim. If I could swim a straight line (which I proved I could not this past weekend) a 5K swim is about 5,500 yards. I could probably get a 3,000 yard'er in each week and maybe a 4,500-5,000 once a month. With limited detail, how does this look for building a winter base for a 5K swim in August? If it help in your analysis, I don't think I'll wear a wetsuit (too hot) and I will likely take advantage of all three aid stations, not so much for water or gels, but to catch my breath and stretch out a bit.
2Young2BBald
Footbaldguy
A couple of quick pieces of advice. Practice transitions and plan a static set up for the transition area that includes helmet placement, glasses, etc. Visualize transition as you set up for the event to be sure nothing will get in the way. If you do not already have them, get speed laces for your shoes. You can go name brand like Yankz, or go on eBay and get the cheap ones (I like these and the more you buy, the less you spend on each). Brick workouts are great tune ups and make training a lot more fun IMO. Based on the sprint you are doing, I'd mock the race distance and do transitions as part of the brick.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Congrats! Juxt, you registered/registering, too? I think you'll be running similar times there. Gruecd, you have to give yourself a serious break after the ultramarathon before you start the Boston training! Your base will remain strong ....... so rest >>> jumping into Boston prep.
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Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Yes, I'm going to register but can't until Friday. I've been kicking around the idea of training the Pfitz 18/70 plan and trying for a sub 3:00. 8 minutes is a lot to shave off, though. It's an ambitious goal.Grue, are you going to use a specific training plan or are you going to just do your own thing?
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gruecd
Footballguy
IIRC, Jux needed 3:15, and he ran 3:08, so he'll be able to register on Friday with the "BQ-5" group. My goal for Boston is the same as last year, which was just to set a course PR (sub-3:09:48).And yeah, I know that I'll need a break. I'll probably dedicate the month of December to recovery and then start training in January, which will give me almost 16 weeks to get ready. More than enough time.
gruecd
Footballguy
I'll probably do Pfitz 18/70, too. I'll just do a "condensed" version.FWIW, I'm not sure I'd recommend going for an 8-minute PR in your first Boston. It's a "tactical" race unlike any marathon I've ever run. You can't just go out there and run even splits, and it's really hard to get it right your first time. Maybe we could run together and shoot for 3:05 or something. Plenty of time to figure it out.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
That's the truth. And I have Chicago still to run next month although I think my endurance isn't strong enough to PR since I've been messing around with half marathons this summer. Chicago's warm on marathon day usually too.Tactical how? More than the hills? The later morning start kind of sucks and I've heard there is a lot of waiting around with how the shuttles work.
Sand
Footballguy
I did one of these in June. Hopefully yours isn't in 80F/100%RH weather at race start like mine was. It was quite fun, though.Awesome. I've never felt more accomplished than after I finished the first one of these. We can talk specifics, but I generally tried during the week for a speed day, a tempo day, and an endurance day. I'd be careful about the buildup, as I've had shoulder issues with the volume before (might be just me, though). For endurance sets I just did a bunch of 500s. For my race prep I did a 10x500 day (on 8:00, I think). Other than that I just tried to build up to a reasonable total training load that left me comfortable with my ability to do what I wanted to do. I think all year I've only done a couple swim practices over 4000yds. But if you won't break down there is nothing wrong with doing those long swims (though I prefer doing 500s to straight swims). It will help with mental confidence, for sure.
As I look back at a lot of the workouts they look somewhat haphazard, but like most folks I just filled in training when I could. I did get to 40k/month before this last one, so total load was good, and I'd try to get a good 3-4hrs in the pool per week. If you can do that a good race is almost guaranteed. I'll PM you my training log - my race was May 20th, so you can look at the buildup from Jan-May if you want.
2Young2BBald
Footbaldguy
Thanks, I appreciate it a ton. I had thought about possible shoulder issues and think I'll have to keep an eye on my neck too. With the 910XT, I think I'll be more apt to swim for time over the winter than distance, not having to obsess with lap counting. Its a bit hard to wrap my brain around a 40K month. Checking the log since '09, I have only had two months in excess of 20K.
pigskinliquors
Dr. Parrothead
Is it Du the Bear at Bear Creek Park?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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AcerFC
Footballguy
Do I need a helmet?
2Young2BBald
Footbaldguy
You thinking of coming out of retirement?
AcerFC
Footballguy
Nopewww.fighthd.org
gruecd
Footballguy
The hills are the main thing, plus the late start (and the waiting around) can make nutrition tricky. It's super easy to go out too fast, and the terrain makes it tricky trying to figure out where to hold back and where to push. It's the only race I run where I have a specific goal pace for every single mile.----Unrelated, I bailed on my lunch run because my right ITB/hip/piriformis are sore. Obviously it's all related. I've been doing very few runs shorter than 80 minutes lately, and I've been a lot quicker than usual to skip shorter runs if my body doesn't feel right. I've already got the base, and I guess I just figure that the longer runs (in particular the back-to-back double-digit runs) are what's really important during this particular cycle.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
My
: You of course need to be careful over the first few miles, which are slightly downhill - but that's rather easily controlled. The mass of runners keeps things under control anyway. And you need to deal with the sequence of four hills from miles 16-20 - but they are not big hills. Yes, some of it's the location in the race, but they aren't that bad, IMO. I believe the issue in Boston is all the additional stimuli that increases the HR. The wonderful crowds throughout (especially the smaller towns over the first half and the cute kids high-fiving); the Wellesley girls; the Boston College rowdiness. I don't know if the RW forums talk about it (or if it has been studied), but if the environment causes the HR to rise a few ticks, it will affect the race effort.Juxt, I stayed with a friend and her family who live one town over from Hopkinton - and it was awesome on race morning to have the easy logistics for a mid-morning start (I was probably the only Boston runner on race morning ironing a dress shirt for an evening dinner). One option is to stay in the 'burbs and use the train to get into town for the expo and such. After the race, runners ride for free. It doesn't work for gruecd, who hangs with a big group of buddies, and it's a different experience than the weekend buzz in Boston. But race-wise ...it's an option. This might require renting a car (but paying less for a hotel?). But on race morning, you could park at a state park a couple miles down the road and catch an easy shuttle into Hopkinton. Tip: Make travel arrangements sooner rather than later.
gruecd
Footballguy
If you don't already have a hotel booked, get on it.Also, like tri-man said, you can definitely save some money by staying further away from Back Bay, but (a) you really don't wanna have to deal with a car in Boston, and (b) I really don't think you get the whole Boston "experience" unless you stay downtown in the middle of the action, especially for your first one.
SteelCurtain
Footballguy
All this Boston talk makes me want to do a BQ attempt when I turn 45 (3 years from now) and they give me an additional 10 minutes to BQ.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Thanks Grue and Tri-man!
I was planning to stay in Boston as that seems to be "the thing to do". I am thinking about staying a few extra days and doing some sight-seeing (never been to Boston before) so I'll have to get that all figured out and reserve a hotel room soon. Or, I guess, it's probably not hard to extend afterwards.
The chart at the bottom of the page here probably makes the hills seem worse than they really are, but look at Boston compared to my "home" marathon!
I was planning to stay in Boston as that seems to be "the thing to do". I am thinking about staying a few extra days and doing some sight-seeing (never been to Boston before) so I'll have to get that all figured out and reserve a hotel room soon. Or, I guess, it's probably not hard to extend afterwards.
The chart at the bottom of the page here probably makes the hills seem worse than they really are, but look at Boston compared to my "home" marathon!
Sand
Footballguy
It looks dorky while you're running in it, but yeah, you need a helmet.'AcerFC said:Do I need a helmet?'2Young2BBald said:'AcerFC said:
Wow - I had no idea that it jumped 10 minutes there. I think I am capable of 3:20, but 3:15 would have always been a stretch. Now I just need to get older...
2Young2BBald
Footbaldguy
And caps on your bars, and if you ride your bike from your car to transition, the helmet must be on, and the helmet need to be buckled, and on and on. Multi-Sport has a ton of rules that, frankly, I love. Take a look at the website for the event and let me (us) know if you have questions. You will enjoy your day more if you know how its ruled and regulated.It looks dorky while you're running in it, but yeah, you need a helmet.'AcerFC said:Do I need a helmet?'2Young2BBald said:'AcerFC said:
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
11 mile MLR after class this morning. It looked like I was going to be doing this one in the rain, but it actually quit raining literally a few minutes before I went out and never started up again. The rain actually would have been welcome for variety's sake, but it was still a nice easy run.
Unfortunately, I'm going to have to do this week's 22-miler after work on Friday. We have an early home football game on Saturday, so my options are to either get my run in on Friday evening (probably not getting home until about 9:00) or to get up early as hell to get that run in before tailgating starts. #### the latter, so the former wins by default.
Unfortunately, I'm going to have to do this week's 22-miler after work on Friday. We have an early home football game on Saturday, so my options are to either get my run in on Friday evening (probably not getting home until about 9:00) or to get up early as hell to get that run in before tailgating starts. #### the latter, so the former wins by default.
gruecd
Footballguy
Yikes, that'll be rough. Home at 9, out at 9:30, back by when, 12:30-1:00??
I've got plans at 8:00 on Saturday morning, but I'm only doing 16, so as long as I get going by 5-5:30, I should be good to go!
pigskinliquors
Dr. Parrothead
Thinking about it'2Young2BBald said:
Did my 5k test yesterday for pacing purposes and establish a baseline.
1 - 8:00, 163 hr
2 - 8:33, 165 hr
3 - 8:15, 167 hr (175 max)
3.1 - 0:49, 173 hr
25:40, 165 average hr
This one hurt. I've never held that type of for this distance. 167 is my lacate threshold or at least is was 3 years ago.
More encouraging was today's workout. I've decided to incorporate walk training into my plan. I'm pretty sure I won't be running 100 non-stop so I'm going to train those muscles. All 3 miles were between 12:20 and 12:35 pace for an average pace of 12:29 at 117 hr. I was floored that I held this pace walking. Really was expecting something closer to 15 min.
1 - 8:00, 163 hr
2 - 8:33, 165 hr
3 - 8:15, 167 hr (175 max)
3.1 - 0:49, 173 hr
25:40, 165 average hr
This one hurt. I've never held that type of for this distance. 167 is my lacate threshold or at least is was 3 years ago.
More encouraging was today's workout. I've decided to incorporate walk training into my plan. I'm pretty sure I won't be running 100 non-stop so I'm going to train those muscles. All 3 miles were between 12:20 and 12:35 pace for an average pace of 12:29 at 117 hr. I was floored that I held this pace walking. Really was expecting something closer to 15 min.
Yeah baby!!!Thinking about it'2Young2BBald said:
2Young2BBald
Footbaldguy
Thinking about it'2Young2BBald said:
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Yeah, the hills are each less than 100 ft of elevation. You can at least train on some undulation out in your area (it's dead flat nearer to the city where I am). If you catch the 9.5 mile loop around Argonne Labs, that big rise (especially running clockwise) on the south end will prepare you sufficiently. Or if you're out that way, you can run into Lemont and catch a nasty steep hill heading up from the river. The hotels right near the finish and the expo might be sold out (and they're more expensive). Call up a map of the subway system, and you can match up some hotels along those routes - either the east end or further west nearer to the ball park.
BTW, if you email gruecd or me, either of us can send you the ultimate spreadsheet for planning mile splits at Boston. Plug in your desired time and some other detail and it lays it all out for you - even a wristband layout you can print and laminate.
Total geekiness. 
I studied it constantly. 
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
No, I mean I'll get to running a little after 5:00, putting me in the shower by about 9:00. That's not so bad, just a little unusual for me.Yikes, that'll be rough. Home at 9, out at 9:30, back by when, 12:30-1:00??
gruecd
Footballguy
OK, just put the finishing touches on the last 9 weeks of my JFK training. Take a look-see:
Week M T W T F S S total notes16-Sep rest 26.6TR 10 6 rest 3 26.2 71.8 23-Sep 14 rest 26TR rest 5 22 18 85 30-Sep rest 10 6 12 rest 16 10 54 first week taper for 50K7-Oct rest 10 8 4 rest rest 50K TR 53.07 14-Oct rest rest 8 10 rest 16 12 52 recovery21-Oct rest 14 8 10 rest 30 15 77 28-Oct rest 10 6 10 rest 20 5 52 taper week 14-Nov rest 8 5 8 rest 10 5 36 taper week 211-Nov 5 rest 4 rest 2 50 * TR = trail run
So basically maxing out with two weeks right around 80mpw while allowing a 2-week taper for my 50K and then a little recovery. Key back-to-backs include 26/10, 26/14, 22/18, and 30/15. Hopefully enough rest, and as you can see, not a lot of junk miles.
Week M T W T F S S total notes16-Sep rest 26.6TR 10 6 rest 3 26.2 71.8 23-Sep 14 rest 26TR rest 5 22 18 85 30-Sep rest 10 6 12 rest 16 10 54 first week taper for 50K7-Oct rest 10 8 4 rest rest 50K TR 53.07 14-Oct rest rest 8 10 rest 16 12 52 recovery21-Oct rest 14 8 10 rest 30 15 77 28-Oct rest 10 6 10 rest 20 5 52 taper week 14-Nov rest 8 5 8 rest 10 5 36 taper week 211-Nov 5 rest 4 rest 2 50 * TR = trail run
So basically maxing out with two weeks right around 80mpw while allowing a 2-week taper for my 50K and then a little recovery. Key back-to-backs include 26/10, 26/14, 22/18, and 30/15. Hopefully enough rest, and as you can see, not a lot of junk miles.
Kuz
Footballguy
Good luck - man you're crazy...
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I'm never going to do anything like this anyway, but I read the training guide from the 100 miler a few pages back, and that guy has you doing super-long runs of 50-60 miles at a time instead of back-to-backs. Does the ultra community have any kind of consensus on which approach is best, or does it just vary from person to person?
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Most lean to the back to backs. It's more about time on your feet than distance. I haven't seen anyone suggesting more than 40 miles at a clip even with just one longer run a week.
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