Ran a 10k in June (4 Viewers)

[Ned]

Ran the Air Force Half-Marathon in a time of 2:25. I ran it in '05 in 2:17, but 7 years and about 15 pounds more only slowed me down by 7 minutes! I am very proud of my wife who broke 3 hours! (2:55) Just thought I would throw that out there. Anyone else run it today?

Would have been awesome. May have to consider it next year.just 8 easy this morning. the usual "don't look at your watch" run, except 4 times - at each turn in the route and then at home. 58:16 for a 7:17 pace. Felt awesome. yesterday's 5k training run - finally broke 20 outdoors for the first time since college; felt worse at the end. Looking through the local races, don't see a whole lot that entices me. Maybe the Raleigh half on November 4th or Pinehurst Turkey Trot on Nov 17. Any ideas where to find an inexpensive but good tri-bike?

Damn dude. You haven't lost a step! Great to see you back.

 

[2Young2BBald]

Any ideas where to find an inexpensive but good tri-bike?

Craigslist and cash worked for me. I played up the whole midlife crisis/single income angle with the seller and I think it worked. I know Wraith scored an awesome bike on Bikes Direct.

 

[Ned]

I'm betting some serious dividends are about to be paid to all of the east coast runners this week. This weather...

Week 8 of Pfitz 18/70 is in the books and some serious dividends were paid.....Tue (10mi recovery - 6/4 double): With work calmed down now, I was able to get the double in. First run was at 6am, second was at noon. Pretty cool feeling. Run 1 (50/46) - I saw my breath! 6mi was smooth as silk @ 10:00/128. Run 2 (72/45) - Sun was warm but felt nice with the low dew pt. 4mi @ 10:11/131

Wed (15mi MLR): Ahh, my now "favorite" day of the week. Legs were sore which had to be DOMS from Sunday's 20. They finally loosened up around mile 5 and felt really strong. These cool temps (54/51) seduced me into running this faster than I would've wanted, but my HR was still low. 9:05/138

Thur (6mi recovery): A rare sleep in day. Ran at lunch and felt pretty bleh. It was warm, but still low dew pt (74/59). 9:59/133.

Fri (13mi MLR): Both of our kids are now in school (K and pre) so my wife is going back to work 2 days a week. This forces me to get up at 3:15 so I can run before she leaves for work. I hit the alarm and fell back asleep so I had to cut this run short at 11mi. It turned out to be a fantastic run. DOMS is gone and I actually had a little pep in my step. 9:01/139

Sat (7mi recovery): I was not into this at all. It felt like a chore. Opening day of deer season (archery) was today, so I didn't get to run until around 2pm (75/49). My mind was still in the treestand. 10:19/132

Sun (16/12 MP): First 4 @ 9:15/137. 12 MP miles @ 8:00/162. : Splits - 8:07/155, 7:57/158, 8:08/160, 7:53/162, 8:05/161, 7:59/163, 8:05/163, 7:53/162, 7:58/163, 7:51/163, 8:01/165, 8:03/165. I ran totally by HR and kept it between 155-165, which is a shade lower than Pfitz's suggested range (154-172). I was absolutely floored when I saw the 7:57 for the 2nd MP mile. This came fairly easy. The biggest sign for me was I still had to hold back instead of hold on for the last few miles. I felt like I could've made this a 20/16 MP run.

That put me at 65 miles for the week. Running such a strong MP run at the end of a 65mi week has me beside myself. I don't even know who I am any more. Reminiscing back to the days when 5mi runs were long runs and scared me kept me in check today.

Alright SC.... No more #####footin' around. I'll run with ya.

 

[FUBAR]

Any ideas where to find an inexpensive but good tri-bike?

Craigslist and cash worked for me. I played up the whole midlife crisis/single income angle with the seller and I think it worked. I know Wraith scored an awesome bike on Bikes Direct.

mid-life crisis, father of 4... pity points.

 

[Juxtatarot]

I was planning on running 20 today but mid-way decided if Ivan could run 22 with GI problems, then I could match that with a properly functioning system! I felt good throughout. Averaged 7:49/140. I sped up the second half with a number of mile splits under 7:30. Two weeks ago I failed on a 20 miler attempt after 15 (woke up late and the temperature rose in the 80s) so it feels good to get this run in.

Like Ivan, my taper starts now. I'm not sure about what I want to do next weekend. Schedule calls for a 8K-10K tune-up race Saturday and 16 on Sunday. I'm thinking about skipping the race and running 20 Sunday. I'll still have 2 weeks to rest after that.

 

[koby925]

Philly Half this morning. My first ever. Beautiful weather, couldn't have asked for much more. I finished well under my goal of 1:25 in 1:22:04

First mile I went out in 6:26. Felt pretty good then clicked off a few 6:10-6:12s in a row. Then I was consistently running 6:15-6:20s. Felt pretty good through about 9 but then I started feeling the distance in my legs. After a calf scare around 10 miles, it loosened up again and I just tried to hang on. I lost track of my splits and just about everything the last 5k or so and just tried to keep pace with others. I passed 10 miles in 62:38 and started calculating in my head that 1:23 should be the goal. So I finished faster over the last 5k (19:26) then I thought and was pleasantly surprised when I saw the time.

Averaged 6:16 pace for the race and I think my mile spreads were 6:10-6:26 or so. I think my first mile was the slowest. 7-8 was about 6:23 and I think 11-12 was 6:25. Anyway, pretty evenly paced.

I am very happy with this result. This was a tough race and certainly not my forte but I'm glad I did it and injury willing I hope to do more in the future. I still don't know about a full though

 

[prosopis]

Philly Half this morning. My first ever. Beautiful weather, couldn't have asked for much more. I finished well under my goal of 1:25 in 1:22:04 First mile I went out in 6:26. Felt pretty good then clicked off a few 6:10-6:12s in a row. Then I was consistently running 6:15-6:20s. Felt pretty good through about 9 but then I started feeling the distance in my legs. After a calf scare around 10 miles, it loosened up again and I just tried to hang on. I lost track of my splits and just about everything the last 5k or so and just tried to keep pace with others. I passed 10 miles in 62:38 and started calculating in my head that 1:23 should be the goal. So I finished faster over the last 5k (19:26) then I thought and was pleasantly surprised when I saw the time.Averaged 6:16 pace for the race and I think my mile spreads were 6:10-6:26 or so. I think my first mile was the slowest. 7-8 was about 6:23 and I think 11-12 was 6:25. Anyway, pretty evenly paced. I am very happy with this result. This was a tough race and certainly not my forte but I'm glad I did it and injury willing I hope to do more in the future. I still don't know about a full though

Nice race

 

[Ned]

Philly Half this morning. My first ever. Beautiful weather, couldn't have asked for much more. I finished well under my goal of 1:25 in 1:22:04 First mile I went out in 6:26. Felt pretty good then clicked off a few 6:10-6:12s in a row. Then I was consistently running 6:15-6:20s. Felt pretty good through about 9 but then I started feeling the distance in my legs. After a calf scare around 10 miles, it loosened up again and I just tried to hang on. I lost track of my splits and just about everything the last 5k or so and just tried to keep pace with others. I passed 10 miles in 62:38 and started calculating in my head that 1:23 should be the goal. So I finished faster over the last 5k (19:26) then I thought and was pleasantly surprised when I saw the time.Averaged 6:16 pace for the race and I think my mile spreads were 6:10-6:26 or so. I think my first mile was the slowest. 7-8 was about 6:23 and I think 11-12 was 6:25. Anyway, pretty evenly paced. I am very happy with this result. This was a tough race and certainly not my forte but I'm glad I did it and injury willing I hope to do more in the future. I still don't know about a full though

Wow you SMASHED it.

 

[tri-man 47]

FUBAR, koby - dang ...running sub-20 5Ks in training and at the end of a HM! You kids ...

Juxt - good to hear about the 22. I like the idea of a hard 10K (or even HM) next weekend for you. Race your way into shape, you know? Break down the muscles one last time and let them heal up for the marathon.

Ned - you da MAN! Great stuff!!!

 

[gruecd]

Philly Half this morning. My first ever. Beautiful weather, couldn't have asked for much more. I finished well under my goal of 1:25 in 1:22:04

First mile I went out in 6:26. Felt pretty good then clicked off a few 6:10-6:12s in a row. Then I was consistently running 6:15-6:20s. Felt pretty good through about 9 but then I started feeling the distance in my legs. After a calf scare around 10 miles, it loosened up again and I just tried to hang on. I lost track of my splits and just about everything the last 5k or so and just tried to keep pace with others. I passed 10 miles in 62:38 and started calculating in my head that 1:23 should be the goal. So I finished faster over the last 5k (19:26) then I thought and was pleasantly surprised when I saw the time.

Averaged 6:16 pace for the race and I think my mile spreads were 6:10-6:26 or so. I think my first mile was the slowest. 7-8 was about 6:23 and I think 11-12 was 6:25. Anyway, pretty evenly paced.

I am very happy with this result. This was a tough race and certainly not my forte but I'm glad I did it and injury willing I hope to do more in the future. I still don't know about a full though

Wow you SMASHED it.

Damn, koby!

 

[Juxtatarot]

Congrats Koby! Where did you finish overall and in your age group? You had to have been up there.

 

[gruecd]

That put me at 65 miles for the week. Running such a strong MP run at the end of a 65mi week has me beside myself. I don't even know who I am any more. Reminiscing back to the days when 5mi runs were long runs and scared me kept me in check today.Alright SC.... No more #####footin' around. I'll run with ya.

Go, boy!!

 

[Juxtatarot]

Juxt - good to hear about the 22. I like the idea of a hard 10K (or even HM) next weekend for you. Race your way into shape, you know? Break down the muscles one last time and let them heal up for the marathon.

I can't find a good 10K (or even half) for next weekend. Maybe I'll go to Waterfall Glen run a couple warm up miles then go all out for the rest of the course.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

koby -- Nice job. Good lord you're fast.

Ned -- Speaking of fast . . . You are going to completely crush Philly. You've put on a lot of speed over the last couple of years.

jux -- It's been fun following your training since we're on the exact same schedule. Enjoy the taper!

_______________

6 recovery miles today after church. I was originally hoping to do intervals, but I was still a little sore from Friday's long run so I decided to put it off a day and do an easy run instead. Hopefully I can get a good track session in with an extra day of relative rest.

 

[gruecd]

 

[koby925]

Thanks, all.

Ok the official results are up today and they have me at 1:22:05. The text to my wife yesterday said 1:22:04 and my watch had me at 1:22:06. Here's my placement:

Overall: 202 out of 15116

Division: (M 35-39) 24 out of 1101

Gender: 171 out of 6273

I felt pretty good after the race yesterday and we hung out with friends and had some drinks. Today my legs are really tired and I am creeping around like an old man. I think I earned a couple days off.

Forgot to share a funny side story: I planned on taking a Cliff Gel Shot during the race. I had never used them but I thought it would be helpful for this distance. So I stashed the thing in the drawstring of my shorts and kept it in my waistband. I ended up not using it because I was taking water druing the race and gatorade once and I was feeling the liquid sloshing around in my stomach. So I was scared to add anything more in there. So after the race I am wiping sweat off/toweling off and I see blood all over my hand. Turns out the gel pack was rubbing my stomach/waistband area raw and I didn't feel it. So I have a nice war wound today for something I didn't even use. And they were handing them out around mile 8 anyway. I definitely learned a lot about a large race atmosphere this weekend. Like gel shot carrying and to go to the bathroom early because the lines half hour before the race are insane.

 

[gruecd]

Thanks, all. Ok the official results are up today and they have me at 1:22:05. The text to my wife yesterday said 1:22:04 and my watch had me at 1:22:06. Here's my placement:•Overall: 202 out of 15116 •Division: (M 35-39) 24 out of 1101 •Gender: 171 out of 6273

Wow, fast race. By comparison, running 1:22:05 at last year's Fox Cities Marathon (my hometown race) would've netted you #21 overall and #20 male and 3rd place in your division.

 

[Juxtatarot]

I was thinking the same thing, Grue. We must be slower out here in the Midwest!

Koby, that's an amazing time for your first half. If you trained for it and stayed healthy, I think you'd be able to do a sub 3:00 marathon. You're obviously a very gifted runner. I know you mentioned you were getting "back" into running. May I ask what your running background is from when you were younger? Just curious.

 

[gruecd]

Koby, that's an amazing time for your first half. If you trained for it and stayed healthy, I think you'd be able to do a sub 3:00 marathon. You're obviously a very gifted runner. I know you mentioned you were getting "back" into running. May I ask what your running background is from when you were younger? Just curious.

Yeah, he'd need to spend a while building base (i.e., aerobic capacity), but there's no doubt he's got the speed to do it. I know a lot of fast guys who crashed and burned in the marathon because they didn't respect the distance. They thought it was enough just being fast.

 

[gruecd]

Long trail run for me tomorrow afternoon in the Northern Kettle. Buddy and I both looking to take it super easy, so it'll probably take us at least 4-1/2 hours to cover the out-and-back 26.6-mile route (10+ min/mile). Should be fun, but no idea what to do nutrition-wise. Suggestions??

 

[gruecd]

Interview with Karl Meltzer, 2012 Run Rabbit Run 100 Champion.

 

[koby925]

Well this was one of the huge ING RnR races that gets a lot of pros and runners in general. For example, Dathan Ritzenheim was in the race (3rd) and there were over 15,000 runners total. I have seen smaller Halfs in the area where low 1:20s would put you near the top 20. Runners aren't faster in the east. The midwest produces some of the best distance runners at every level.

Jux, I ran track (800/mile) and XC at Notre Dame mid to late 90s. Ran for a couple years after but only local 5ks. Then no racing for for 12 or 13 years because I was either not running at all or just running 3-4 miles a few times a week just to stay in respectable shape.

Last year something sparked the urge to get back into it. Either finally settling into a community, wanting to stay in shape for my two daughters (and future suitors ), my wife saying she never saw that big part of my life or a combo of all of these, so I did a local 5k then got the itch again. Then once I started building my mileage I set my sights on distance I've never raced. I wanted to do Broad Street (10 miles) but wasn't ready this May, so the goal became a fall Half.

Grue, believe me, still being a mid-distance guy at heart, I respect long distances and know I'm not ready to really run a marathon now. That was part of the reason I was overanalyzing even doing the Half. But I was partly right...I could've used more base. Those last 4 miles yesterday were tough. I couldn't imagine another half on top of that.

IF (big if) I do the marathon, I always said I wanted to do two of them. One to qualify for Boston and Boston. MAYBE next year.

 

[koby925]

How long do normal people take off after a race like a Half? I think I need a couple days or so. Grue probably does a double the next day to make up for the lack of mileage...

 

[gruecd]

How long do normal people take off after a race like a Half? I think I need a couple days or so. Grue probably does a double the next day to make up for the lack of mileage...

Hahahaha. Yeah, usually a couple days for me after a hard half, and then just easy running for a while after that. Probably a couple of weeks before your body is really recovered...

 

[Juxtatarot]

How long do normal people take off after a race like a Half? I think I need a couple days or so. Grue probably does a double the next day to make up for the lack of mileage...

I take a couple of days -- maybe a Tuesday evening run after a Sunday morning race. But nothing too tough and I certainly wouldn't do any speed work for a few days after that.

 

[tri-man 47]

Forgot to share a funny side story: I planned on taking a Cliff Gel Shot during the race. I had never used them but I thought it would be helpful for this distance. So I stashed the thing in the drawstring of my shorts and kept it in my waistband. I ended up not using it because I was taking water druing the race and gatorade once and I was feeling the liquid sloshing around in my stomach. So I was scared to add anything more in there. So after the race I am wiping sweat off/toweling off and I see blood all over my hand. Turns out the gel pack was rubbing my stomach/waistband area raw and I didn't feel it. So I have a nice war wound today for something I didn't even use. And they were handing them out around mile 8 anyway. I definitely learned a lot about a large race atmosphere this weekend. Like gel shot carrying and to go to the bathroom early because the lines half hour before the race are insane.

First point: For my first marathon, I put my car key in the inner pouch of my shorts. I never felt a thing, but just that little bit of extra friction caused a burn mark that lasted for a couple of years.Second point: Looks like we need to teach you the benefits of a wide-mouthed bottle to use as a pee pot. Best of all in cooler weather is wearing a plastic bag with head and arm holes cut out ...keeps you warm, and you can merrily pee away under cover.

As to your other posting - an early goal of mine was to be racing strong when my kids were old enough to appreciate it. Nothing made me prouder than seeing both my grown (early 20's) kids post about my Boston race on their Facebook pages for all their friends to see. My daughter loves coming to my races (and hearing the adventures of this FBG crew). Sounds like you're on that same path with your family and your racing!

 

[SteelCurtain]

I'm betting some serious dividends are about to be paid to all of the east coast runners this week. This weather...

Week 8 of Pfitz 18/70 is in the books and some serious dividends were paid.....Tue (10mi recovery - 6/4 double): With work calmed down now, I was able to get the double in. First run was at 6am, second was at noon. Pretty cool feeling. Run 1 (50/46) - I saw my breath! 6mi was smooth as silk @ 10:00/128. Run 2 (72/45) - Sun was warm but felt nice with the low dew pt. 4mi @ 10:11/131

Wed (15mi MLR): Ahh, my now "favorite" day of the week. Legs were sore which had to be DOMS from Sunday's 20. They finally loosened up around mile 5 and felt really strong. These cool temps (54/51) seduced me into running this faster than I would've wanted, but my HR was still low. 9:05/138

Thur (6mi recovery): A rare sleep in day. Ran at lunch and felt pretty bleh. It was warm, but still low dew pt (74/59). 9:59/133.

Fri (13mi MLR): Both of our kids are now in school (K and pre) so my wife is going back to work 2 days a week. This forces me to get up at 3:15 so I can run before she leaves for work. I hit the alarm and fell back asleep so I had to cut this run short at 11mi. It turned out to be a fantastic run. DOMS is gone and I actually had a little pep in my step. 9:01/139

Sat (7mi recovery): I was not into this at all. It felt like a chore. Opening day of deer season (archery) was today, so I didn't get to run until around 2pm (75/49). My mind was still in the treestand. 10:19/132

Sun (16/12 MP): First 4 @ 9:15/137. 12 MP miles @ 8:00/162. : Splits - 8:07/155, 7:57/158, 8:08/160, 7:53/162, 8:05/161, 7:59/163, 8:05/163, 7:53/162, 7:58/163, 7:51/163, 8:01/165, 8:03/165. I ran totally by HR and kept it between 155-165, which is a shade lower than Pfitz's suggested range (154-172). I was absolutely floored when I saw the 7:57 for the 2nd MP mile. This came fairly easy. The biggest sign for me was I still had to hold back instead of hold on for the last few miles. I felt like I could've made this a 20/16 MP run.

That put me at 65 miles for the week. Running such a strong MP run at the end of a 65mi week has me beside myself. I don't even know who I am any more. Reminiscing back to the days when 5mi runs were long runs and scared me kept me in check today.

Alright SC.... No more #####footin' around. I'll run with ya.

Wait until you hear about my half marathon I ran yesterday. I'll post a RR tonight.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

How long do normal people take off after a race like a Half? I think I need a couple days or so. Grue probably does a double the next day to make up for the lack of mileage...

Hahahaha. Yeah, usually a couple days for me after a hard half, and then just easy running for a while after that. Probably a couple of weeks before your body is really recovered...

Exactly the same here.

 

[beer 302]

Long trail run for me tomorrow afternoon in the Northern Kettle. Buddy and I both looking to take it super easy, so it'll probably take us at least 4-1/2 hours to cover the out-and-back 26.6-mile route (10+ min/mile). Should be fun, but no idea what to do nutrition-wise. Suggestions??

Kill something with your bare hands and feast ala Lord of the Flies

 

[SteelCurtain]

How long do normal people take off after a race like a Half? I think I need a couple days or so. Grue probably does a double the next day to make up for the lack of mileage...

I've heard one day per mile raced. So no hard runs for 13 days (for 13.1 miles). Its nearly 4 weeks for a marathon.Not sure if that's true but that's what I follow. Just a bunch of easy stuff for you for a bit.

 

[BassNBrew]

Long trail run for me tomorrow afternoon in the Northern Kettle. Buddy and I both looking to take it super easy, so it'll probably take us at least 4-1/2 hours to cover the out-and-back 26.6-mile route (10+ min/mile). Should be fun, but no idea what to do nutrition-wise. Suggestions??

Why don't you see if you can stomach 300-350 calories per hour. Probably want to try to incorporate some protein and fat with the carbs. Clifbar is a suggestion. http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/calories/clif-bar-chocolate-chip-41788416 They don't take a ton of space, don't melt, and you can nibble and tuck them away without them becoming a mess. Only problem is they become rocks when it's cold.After 30 minutes do one gel and one clifbar every hour (320 calories) which will take you to 4.5 hours. Those things are pretty heavy in the belly which should give you a good indication that solid food over your 50 miler will either be no problem or something you need to play with more.

Not sure what type of electrolyte tabs you use. I prefer salt stick. This would be a good time to test one pill every 20-30 minutes. Between this and the gel/clifbar nutrition, you can go 100% water and skip the sports drink. This is nice for an out and back if you don't have access to water re-fill.

 

[BassNBrew]

Philly Half this morning. My first ever. Beautiful weather, couldn't have asked for much more. I finished well under my goal of 1:25 in 1:22:04 First mile I went out in 6:26. Felt pretty good then clicked off a few 6:10-6:12s in a row. Then I was consistently running 6:15-6:20s. Felt pretty good through about 9 but then I started feeling the distance in my legs. After a calf scare around 10 miles, it loosened up again and I just tried to hang on. I lost track of my splits and just about everything the last 5k or so and just tried to keep pace with others. I passed 10 miles in 62:38 and started calculating in my head that 1:23 should be the goal. So I finished faster over the last 5k (19:26) then I thought and was pleasantly surprised when I saw the time.Averaged 6:16 pace for the race and I think my mile spreads were 6:10-6:26 or so. I think my first mile was the slowest. 7-8 was about 6:23 and I think 11-12 was 6:25. Anyway, pretty evenly paced. I am very happy with this result. This was a tough race and certainly not my forte but I'm glad I did it and injury willing I hope to do more in the future. I still don't know about a full though

Wow you SMASHED it.

 

[tri-man 47]

How long do normal people take off after a race like a Half? I think I need a couple days or so. Grue probably does a double the next day to make up for the lack of mileage...

I've heard one day per mile raced. So no hard runs for 13 days (for 13.1 miles). Its nearly 4 weeks for a marathon.

Not sure if that's true but that's what I follow. Just a bunch of easy stuff for you for a bit.

SC - I've always heard it as a day off per hour raced. So I'd take a day or two off after a HM ...still take it easy for a while, then, but I find it's OK to get back it.BnB - good advice about the calories/hour.

 

[gruecd]

Long trail run for me tomorrow afternoon in the Northern Kettle. Buddy and I both looking to take it super easy, so it'll probably take us at least 4-1/2 hours to cover the out-and-back 26.6-mile route (10+ min/mile). Should be fun, but no idea what to do nutrition-wise. Suggestions??

Why don't you see if you can stomach 300-350 calories per hour. Probably want to try to incorporate some protein and fat with the carbs. Clifbar is a suggestion. http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/calories/clif-bar-chocolate-chip-41788416 They don't take a ton of space, don't melt, and you can nibble and tuck them away without them becoming a mess. Only problem is they become rocks when it's cold.After 30 minutes do one gel and one clifbar every hour (320 calories) which will take you to 4.5 hours. Those things are pretty heavy in the belly which should give you a good indication that solid food over your 50 miler will either be no problem or something you need to play with more.

Not sure what type of electrolyte tabs you use. I prefer salt stick. This would be a good time to test one pill every 20-30 minutes. Between this and the gel/clifbar nutrition, you can go 100% water and skip the sports drink. This is nice for an out and back if you don't have access to water re-fill.

Sheesh, I'm gonna have to print this and take it with me so I don't forget something....

I use Lava Salts. Thoughts?

 

[BassNBrew]

Long trail run for me tomorrow afternoon in the Northern Kettle. Buddy and I both looking to take it super easy, so it'll probably take us at least 4-1/2 hours to cover the out-and-back 26.6-mile route (10+ min/mile). Should be fun, but no idea what to do nutrition-wise. Suggestions??

Why don't you see if you can stomach 300-350 calories per hour. Probably want to try to incorporate some protein and fat with the carbs. Clifbar is a suggestion. http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/calories/clif-bar-chocolate-chip-41788416 They don't take a ton of space, don't melt, and you can nibble and tuck them away without them becoming a mess. Only problem is they become rocks when it's cold.After 30 minutes do one gel and one clifbar every hour (320 calories) which will take you to 4.5 hours. Those things are pretty heavy in the belly which should give you a good indication that solid food over your 50 miler will either be no problem or something you need to play with more.

Not sure what type of electrolyte tabs you use. I prefer salt stick. This would be a good time to test one pill every 20-30 minutes. Between this and the gel/clifbar nutrition, you can go 100% water and skip the sports drink. This is nice for an out and back if you don't have access to water re-fill.

Sheesh, I'm gonna have to print this and take it with me so I don't forget something....

I use Lava Salts. Thoughts?

http://www.saltstick.com/products/sscaps/ccompetitors.htm http://www.squeezy.com/salts.htm

Now sure why the difference between the Lava Salt page and what Salt Stick says Lava Salt contains unless they are breaking the 255 mg SodiumCloride into Sodiuma and Cloride components.

Regardless...my thoughts are if it works for you, then use it. A triathlete I follow that won IMAz uses 2x the suggested serving size. I've been doing that with good results.

Your comment made me laugh. Between keeping track of all this stuff, the run time flies by. Dang near need my daytimer to keep on schedule and usually still fall behind on something.

Your event will look like a buffet at the rest stops. Once you know solid food won't be a problem, the biggest thing will be to get up to speed on how many calories per serving size the food you will be eating contains. Your body can digest more than 350 calories per hour so you don't want to eat more than that and risk GI problems. While the saying eat before you're hungry is accurate, more is not better either.

The good thing is that you're so fast that there's less time for something to trip you up.

 

[SFBayDuck]

Long trail run for me tomorrow afternoon in the Northern Kettle. Buddy and I both looking to take it super easy, so it'll probably take us at least 4-1/2 hours to cover the out-and-back 26.6-mile route (10+ min/mile). Should be fun, but no idea what to do nutrition-wise. Suggestions??

Why don't you see if you can stomach 300-350 calories per hour. Probably want to try to incorporate some protein and fat with the carbs. Clifbar is a suggestion. http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/calories/clif-bar-chocolate-chip-41788416 They don't take a ton of space, don't melt, and you can nibble and tuck them away without them becoming a mess. Only problem is they become rocks when it's cold.After 30 minutes do one gel and one clifbar every hour (320 calories) which will take you to 4.5 hours. Those things are pretty heavy in the belly which should give you a good indication that solid food over your 50 miler will either be no problem or something you need to play with more.

Not sure what type of electrolyte tabs you use. I prefer salt stick. This would be a good time to test one pill every 20-30 minutes. Between this and the gel/clifbar nutrition, you can go 100% water and skip the sports drink. This is nice for an out and back if you don't have access to water re-fill.

Sheesh, I'm gonna have to print this and take it with me so I don't forget something....

I use Lava Salts. Thoughts?

http://www.saltstick.com/products/sscaps/ccompetitors.htm http://www.squeezy.com/salts.htm

Now sure why the difference between the Lava Salt page and what Salt Stick says Lava Salt contains unless they are breaking the 255 mg SodiumCloride into Sodiuma and Cloride components.

Regardless...my thoughts are if it works for you, then use it. A triathlete I follow that won IMAz uses 2x the suggested serving size. I've been doing that with good results.

Your comment made me laugh. Between keeping track of all this stuff, the run time flies by. Dang near need my daytimer to keep on schedule and usually still fall behind on something.

Your event will look like a buffet at the rest stops. Once you know solid food won't be a problem, the biggest thing will be to get up to speed on how many calories per serving size the food you will be eating contains. Your body can digest more than 350 calories per hour so you don't want to eat more than that and risk GI problems. While the saying eat before you're hungry is accurate, more is not better either.

The good thing is that you're so fast that there's less time for something to trip you up.

4-5 hours, gels/chomps should be fine, whatever you are used to - although you may find it hard to stomach these after awhile! But these longer runs (time wise) give you a chance to experiment to see what will work best for you at JFK. As BNB mentioned, aid stations are buffets at ultras and you can expect PB&J, boiled potatoes (many dip them in the bowl of salt usually nearby), M&Ms, gummy bears, bananas, flat coke/sprite, soup, etc. I've even seen pancakes, pizza, quesedillas, and of course beer. Depending on what you are carrying (hydration pack with some room for food?), try bringing a sandwich or bananas or whatever you think you might be able to stomach and try it out. The couple of 4-6 hour training runs I did back in '09 training for an ultra I would bring a turkey sandwich along with gels.Biggest thing I learned - don't eat at an aid station something you haven't tried before. That handful of potato chips that looked so good at mile 18 turned into 2 hours of stomach pain and nausea that you just don't need when you have hours to go!

On a related note I've now seen 3-4 articles or podcasts that talk about how what you eat (carbs v fat) before a run can trigger your body to tune into using that fuel as you begin exercise. So a runner who loads up with the traditional high Glycemic Index carb breakfast is going to fire up the carb burning engine and run out sooner than one who eats a lower GI meal and mixes in fat. At a marathon, especially as fast as you are running, carbs are going to get you through. But you're going to have to burn a ton of fat during an ultra just because carb stores are limited and the stomach just can't process enough to keep up.

I'm experimenting with this now as I'm starting to push my long run times out, wondering if anybody else here as read up much on this or experimented themselves.

 

[SFBayDuck]

Interview with Karl Meltzer, 2012 Run Rabbit Run 100 Champion.

Thirty-three 100 mile victories. What a bad ###.Loved "100 mile races don't start until mile 70," and "you don't bank miles in a 100 miler".

 

[Ned]

Wait until you hear about my half marathon I ran yesterday. I'll post a RR tonight.

Interview with Karl Meltzer, 2012 Run Rabbit Run 100 Champion.

Thirty-three 100 mile victories. What a bad ###.Loved "100 mile races don't start until mile 70," and "you don't bank miles in a 100 miler".

that's so friggin ridiculous. I don't even understand how that's possible.

 

[SFBayDuck]

While we're talking utlras, I watched this cool short film (eight minutes) on Mike Foote who has been the top American at the UTMB in Chamonix, France, the past 2 years. Dude lives in a yurt in MT and runs "20-22 hours a week" on the trails. Kind of envious of the lifestyle.....

 

[IvanKaramazov]

[Loved "100 mile races don't start until mile 70,"

I don't think this is true. I mean, after you pass mile 70, there are only 30 miles left to go. That's not even 10 5Ks. I've done way more than 10 5Ks, so that should be cake.

 

[Ned]

While we're talking utlras, I watched this cool short film (eight minutes) on Mike Foote who has been the top American at the UTMB in Chamonix, France, the past 2 years. Dude lives in a yurt in MT and runs "20-22 hours a week" on the trails. Kind of envious of the lifestyle.....

I'm absolutely envious. So cool. I really get the 'unapologetic runner' piece of this.

 

[BassNBrew]

Week 1 of 30 Umstead Review

Monday - 5 mi zone 1 planned. 5 mi @ 10:29, 131 hr, 1/2 mi cool down

Tuesday - 3 mi zone 3 planned. 3.2 mi baseline in 25:40, 164 (zone 4) hr

Wednesday - 2 mi stairmill planned. 3 mi speed walk @ 12:28, 118 hr

Thursday - 6 mi w/ 4 mi Zone 2. Followed the plan. 6.2 @ 9:31, 140 hr

Friday - rest. Nailed it.

Saturday - 6 mi trail. 3 mile hike over 45 min.

Sunday - rest. 7 mi trail run @ 12 min pace. Left the hr monitor at home.

22 total miles planned, actually did 27.9. About the only goal I missed was weight loss. Started at 225 with a goal of 221. Only made it to 224.

This week I ramp up to 34 miles over 6 days.

 

[SteelCurtain]

Boston Half Marathon - 9/16/2012

I signed up for this half marathon the afternoon before. I wanted to use it for part of my long run but also wanted to push myself. I thought my 1:39 Half Marathon PR was soft and I thought 1:37 was doable.

The night before, we took my father-in-law for dinner for his 70th birthday. I didn’t drink but I ate a big steak and didn’t get to bed until 12:30. I was up at 4:45 to prep for this race (started at 7 a.m.).

Did an easy 3 mile warmup prior. The weather was almost perfect. Clear, dry and temps in the lower 50’s. This along with a flat course sealed it for me. I was going to go for it. I’d have time before my marathon in November to recover fully from this race.

Initially, my goal was to do 7:20-7:25 pace. That would put me at 1:37 time.

Mile 1 – 7:08 152

Went out a bit too quick for my liking but my legs felt okay….body still had a bit of chill from the brisk air and my HR was okay.

Mile 2 – 7:12 161

I really had to decide whether I would slow down or just ride it out at a faster pace.

Mile 3 – 7:16 161

Mile 4 – 7:18 163

Admittedly, my mind started racing about my slowing pace and my HR that continued to go up slowly but surely. I started to envision 8+ minute miles later in the race.

Mile 5 – 7:15 165

Something happened here. I just decided to go for it and see how long I could hold it.

Mile 6 – 7:13 165

I quickly realized my HR had stabilized. I decided to push it and keep banking my time and see how my HR would respond later.

Mile 7 – 7:13 165

Mile 8 – 7:14 166

Mile 9 – 7:11 166

Mile 10- 7:11 167

Mile 11- 7:11 167

Mile 12 – 7:07 168

Admittedly in mile 12, I was pushing the pace just a touch. I was hanging with the #6 and #7 women in the race. Eventually, they were pushing the pace faster than I was ready to do. So, although I picked it up, they picked it up more.

Mile 13 – 7:01 171

I passed a couple people here who were definitely slowing. The women though had really picked it up and must have rolled off 6:30ish final mile.

Last 0.16 – 6:42 174

I finished strong but didn’t try to kill myself. I was happy with my race and felt no need to blast my body with an all out sprint.



Time – 1:34:28 (PR!)

Overall - 60/1198

Men - 51/474

40-44 Age Group - 7/78



ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Pretty pumped up. Makes me breaking 3:30 in Philly a much more plausible goal. (My marathon PR is 3:36).

I’m also really pleased with how consistent my pacing was. I’ve never a run such a consistent pace in my life. I also usually run courses that are much hillier. But this race was just churning out the miles. I was in the zone.

For the first time, I really relied on the HR and it worked. (easy Ned…..I’m married. ) I’ll look at my other marathons, but I’m guessing a 155-160 HR during my marathon will be sustainable and will net me my 8 minute miles.

 

[tri-man 47]

Boston Half Marathon - 9/16/2012

Time – 1:34:28 (PR!)

Overall - 60/1198

Men - 51/474

40-44 Age Group - 7/78



ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Pretty pumped up. Makes me breaking 3:30 in Philly a much more plausible goal. (My marathon PR is 3:36).

I’m also really pleased with how consistent my pacing was. I’ve never a run such a consistent pace in my life. I also usually run courses that are much hillier. But this race was just churning out the miles. I was in the zone.

For the first time, I really relied on the HR and it worked. (easy Ned…..I’m married. ) I’ll look at my other marathons, but I’m guessing a 155-160 HR during my marathon will be sustainable and will net me my 8 minute miles.

So don't you find that when you're following the HR, your mind gets extremely focused on the analytics and stops worrying about the peripherals? Each mile becomes another data entry point and the mind centers around the data rather than fretting about race matters or dwelling on negatives. Anyway, fantastic job!!! You're certainly primed for a sub-3:30 marathon! Congrats!!

Man, add in all this ultra talk (on top of the young speed merchants) and this thread is getting pretty bad-###. It's still so much fun, though, to read everybody's training and race reports. We sure have quite a range of achievements.

 

[Trey]

Alright guys... back with my report. I popped in a while back and was pointed in the direction of Hal Higdon's training schedule. I started that about 3 months ago and at the time I was struggling with a 5k..

Ended up finishing the Philly 1/2 yesterday in 1:52:35 and I guess the best way to describe it would be a typical 1st attempt. My goal going in was to break 2 so I was happy about that. The big issue was the pace at the beginning was so much quicker than what I'm used to.. so my splits mirror this. I started out in 7:50ish and was absolutely DOGGING it at the end (just trying to get myself to keep going). Mile marker 10 was like running into a brick wall. But definitely a wild experience. I don't see myself ever going for the full marathon, when I finished the 13.1 all I could think about was how crazy doing that twice seems to me.

And the legs are definitely feeling the quicker than usual pace today.

Thanks for the Higdon tip though. Not sure how he got my lazy ### from 3 miles to 13 but it got me across the finish line somehow.

 

[prosopis]

Boston Half Marathon - 9/16/2012



Time – 1:34:28 (PR!)

Overall - 60/1198

Men - 51/474

40-44 Age Group - 7/78

Congrats man, that is freaking awesome. Great report.

 

[prosopis]

Alright guys... back with my report. I popped in a while back and was pointed in the direction of Hal Higdon's training schedule. I started that about 3 months ago and at the time I was struggling with a 5k..Ended up finishing the Philly 1/2 yesterday in 1:52:35 and I guess the best way to describe it would be a typical 1st attempt. My goal going in was to break 2 so I was happy about that. The big issue was the pace at the beginning was so much quicker than what I'm used to.. so my splits mirror this. I started out in 7:50ish and was absolutely DOGGING it at the end (just trying to get myself to keep going). Mile marker 10 was like running into a brick wall. But definitely a wild experience. I don't see myself ever going for the full marathon, when I finished the 13.1 all I could think about was how crazy doing that twice seems to me.And the legs are definitely feeling the quicker than usual pace today.Thanks for the Higdon tip though. Not sure how he got my lazy ### from 3 miles to 13 but it got me across the finish line somehow.

You never forget your first. Now you have a time to beat Congrats

 

[prosopis]

I did 6.5 miles at 9:40 pace today. I think it may be cooling down here. I just seem to smell it in the air.

 

[koby925]

Great jobs Steelcurtain and Trey! You both crushed your goals

 

[tri-man 47]

Alright guys... back with my report. I popped in a while back and was pointed in the direction of Hal Higdon's training schedule. I started that about 3 months ago and at the time I was struggling with a 5k..Ended up finishing the Philly 1/2 yesterday in 1:52:35

Pickles for you too, Trey!