Ran a 10k in June (9 Viewers)

[prosopis]

It has been a while since I have had a bad run but today was the day. I went out at 5:00am for 13 miles.

Friday I did 7 miles @ 9:22 as a pace run. I am thinking that may have played a part in todays mess.

I leave at 5:00 am and it is pitch black out here with no moon. Hard to see where street turns dark. I get maybe .25 miles out and I hear a strange noise. I thought one of my bottles fell off my fuel belt and I heard it hitting pavement. As I start to feel for the bottle I run into a horse. Yeah a big ### horse was in the middle of the road. Must have gotten loose and the noise I heard were its hooves on pavement. At that point I about #### myself and HR might have hit 200. I continue on and I am getting pain in my upper left leg but I persist on. About 3 miles in I am charged by a loose dog that looks like no one really takes care of it. Again I am put into fright mode.

Combination of weight loss and my heart rate monitor strap being old and stretched out had it constantly slipping to my belly which was really irritating. Same deal with the fuel belt. It has lost its stretchiness? and there is only about a millimeter of velcro holding it on so it flops way more then I want.

About mile 7 things just started falling apart and I was taking lots of breaks. I kept going but my left leg was really hurting. At 11.5 I called it and walked the rest of the way home. It was a pretty discouraging run but you cant win them all.

I think the long run one day after my 7 mile pace run was to much for me. I will rest tomorrow and hit it again on Monday. When I got home the horse was no where to be seen. I hope the owner found it. Sounds stupid but it scared the hell out of me. Glad it was to dark and to early for anyone to see my reaction.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Awesome run today, Beer! It's amazing how much better one does with a little extra motivation, like running with someone else or actually running in an organized race.

 

[beer 302]

It has been a while since I have had a bad run but today was the day. I went out at 5:00am for 13 miles.Friday I did 7 miles @ 9:22 as a pace run. I am thinking that may have played a part in todays mess.I leave at 5:00 am and it is pitch black out here with no moon. Hard to see where street turns dark. I get maybe .25 miles out and I hear a strange noise. I thought one of my bottles fell off my fuel belt and I heard it hitting pavement. As I start to feel for the bottle I run into a horse. Yeah a big ### horse was in the middle of the road. Must have gotten loose and the noise I heard were its hooves on pavement. At that point I about #### myself and HR might have hit 200. I continue on and I am getting pain in my upper left leg but I persist on. About 3 miles in I am charged by a loose dog that looks like no one really takes care of it. Again I am put into fright mode.Combination of weight loss and my heart rate monitor strap being old and stretched out had it constantly slipping to my belly which was really irritating. Same deal with the fuel belt. It has lost its stretchiness? and there is only about a millimeter of velcro holding it on so it flops way more then I want.About mile 7 things just started falling apart and I was taking lots of breaks. I kept going but my left leg was really hurting. At 11.5 I called it and walked the rest of the way home. It was a pretty discouraging run but you cant win them all. I think the long run one day after my 7 mile pace run was to much for me. I will rest tomorrow and hit it again on Monday. When I got home the horse was no where to be seen. I hope the owner found it. Sounds stupid but it scared the hell out of me. Glad it was to dark and to early for anyone to see my reaction.

Might have been a ####ty run but one of the most entertaining ones I've read in a while Not everybody runs into Mr. Ed first thing in the morning!

 

[gruecd]

It has been a while since I have had a bad run but today was the day. I went out at 5:00am for 13 miles.Friday I did 7 miles @ 9:22 as a pace run. I am thinking that may have played a part in todays mess.I leave at 5:00 am and it is pitch black out here with no moon. Hard to see where street turns dark. I get maybe .25 miles out and I hear a strange noise. I thought one of my bottles fell off my fuel belt and I heard it hitting pavement. As I start to feel for the bottle I run into a horse. Yeah a big ### horse was in the middle of the road. Must have gotten loose and the noise I heard were its hooves on pavement. At that point I about #### myself and HR might have hit 200. I continue on and I am getting pain in my upper left leg but I persist on. About 3 miles in I am charged by a loose dog that looks like no one really takes care of it. Again I am put into fright mode.Combination of weight loss and my heart rate monitor strap being old and stretched out had it constantly slipping to my belly which was really irritating. Same deal with the fuel belt. It has lost its stretchiness? and there is only about a millimeter of velcro holding it on so it flops way more then I want.About mile 7 things just started falling apart and I was taking lots of breaks. I kept going but my left leg was really hurting. At 11.5 I called it and walked the rest of the way home. It was a pretty discouraging run but you cant win them all. I think the long run one day after my 7 mile pace run was to much for me. I will rest tomorrow and hit it again on Monday. When I got home the horse was no where to be seen. I hope the owner found it. Sounds stupid but it scared the hell out of me. Glad it was to dark and to early for anyone to see my reaction.

Might wanna invest in a headlamp there, buddy. You can get a cheap one for $10.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Easy 16 miles today @ 9:47.mi. This was the last run of this cycle that can really be classified as "long." Next week will be easy except for a 3 x 1600 workout that I'll try to schedule early in the week. Also only 4 days of running next week, which will be nice.

 

[mr. furley]

Might wanna invest in a headlamp there, buddy. You can get a cheap one for $10.

why didn't i think of this

 

[prosopis]

Might wanna invest in a headlamp there, buddy. You can get a cheap one for $10.

why didn't i think of this

but where is the fun in that?It is really pretty out here when dark. Milky way is fantastic. Really nice view of the stars. Your eyes do adapt but it takes longer then a quarter of a mile. I think I would have seen the horse at 1 or 1.5 miles.

 

[mr. furley]

Might wanna invest in a headlamp there, buddy. You can get a cheap one for $10.

why didn't i think of this

but where is the fun in that?It is really pretty out here when dark. Milky way is fantastic. Really nice view of the stars. Your eyes do adapt but it takes longer then a quarter of a mile. I think I would have seen the horse at 1 or 1.5 miles.

lofli've taken to doing my saturday runs early. 5'ish. i ####ing love it. nearly collided with a guy running in the opposite direction a few months ago. we both said something like "oh ####" and hopped right. not quite as dark as the desert here but dark enough.

 

[Ned]

shonuff - Just food for thought since a lot of your posts sound like mine did last year, and it worries me. I really believe I trained too fast last year. I think you should seriously consider slowing things down. Isn't 159 around where your LT runs have been? LT and MP shouldn't be the same. Congrats on finishing another Pfitz week.

MAC - Good to see you're easing back into things. After letting your body get a breather, I'm willing to bet you'll surprise yourself and run a sub 20 with room to spare.

beer - You're improving pretty quickly, GB! When are you gonna hit some races to see what ya got?

prosopis - I'm sorry, but you ran into a Fn horse?! If your wife has a sewing machine, have her take the velcro strip off the belt (you have amphipod, right?) and resew it on further down the belt. I had the same problem where it was too big and had my wife re-position the velcro. It made a huge difference. Glad you came away from that adventure injury free.

Ivan - Taper!! Congrats on getting thru Pfitz 18/55. Any changes to your race plans?

furley - I friggin' love my early AM runs. Running in the dark when all is quiet is the ####.

 

[Ned]

Week 10 of Pfitz 18/70 - recovery week

Pretty solid week. Hopefully that will translate into a good week next week, which is the peak of the plan - 70mi. Can't wait to tackle it.

Tue (9mi GA) - Muggy and rainy at 5:45 (70/68). I was lucky to beat the thunder storms, so I'll take it. Legs felt fresh, which was a surprise given the 16/12 MP run was just 2 days ago. 8:34/147

Wed (9mi w/ 5x600 VO2max) - Already posted. Avg interval = 6:10/173

Thur (5mi recovery) - Oops. Ran this too fast. Was surprised at how much pep I had in my step after yesterday's speed session. 9:50/135

Fri (11mi MLR) - Hello DOMS. :X Legs were very stiff, but at least it was nice and chilly (51/50). I think I finally settled in around mile 8. Still a solid run considering how I was fighting my legs for the majority of the run. 9:06/139

Sat (8mi GA) - Very busy day and barely got the run in. It was sunny and relatively hot (82/62). I am pretty happy with how I managed my HR. I knew the pace would be much slower than usual GA runs, and was able to truly run by HR. I actually was speeding up as the run went on, which was a treat with how strong the sun was. 9:09/150

Sun (15mi MLR) - Storms hit last night and made this a picture perfect morning (58/45). It's scary how 15mi can feel routine. Just plugged along and before I knew it I was on my way back home. 9:02/141 So cool to see the past 3 runs side by side and see just how different it can be with the different conditions.

57mi for the week. I still have a hard time believing that anything over 50 is a recovery week.

 

[Workhorse]

11 miler for me this am. Mistakenly set the alarm for 5:30 instead of 6:30 so I ran the first half in the darkness, which led to me getting drenched by a neighborhood sprinkler that I couldn't see.

Planning on doing my long runs much slower than I have in the past. Did this one at 8:49 pace and had plenty left in the tank at then end, including a finishing stretch in my neighborhood with a 15 degree incline hill.

My goal right now is to get up to 35-40 miles per week before I start training for Boston.

 

[sho nuff]

shonuff - Just food for thought since a lot of your posts sound like mine did last year, and it worries me. I really believe I trained too fast last year. I think you should seriously consider slowing things down. Isn't 159 around where your LT runs have been? LT and MP shouldn't be the same. Congrats on finishing another Pfitz week.

159-164 or so have been my LT runs (higher end usually in this heat.Though, I did go back and look after I read what I typed...I was off on my averages on that HR.

Was more like 154.

I do think I was pushing a bit too much down the stretch of that run though.

Having to switch some weeks up again though...as I forgot my daughter will be off the week after next...and next week is supposed to be the recovery week..may change that to the week after next and just swap the weeks a bit.

Then the week after all that is our Disney trip.

 

[tri-man 47]

Back from Michigan and a great weekend/enjoyable trail race with 2Young and the rest of his Detroit crew. Cold (40'ish) and generally rainy throughout the weekend (particularly noticeable since we were camping). We all did 3 legs of the 62 mile race. My middle leg included about 15 minutes of pure swamp - muddy creek crossings and leg-sucking muck. I had about four instances of being stuck hip-deep and having to use my hands to lift my leg and extract it from the mud. That does tend to slow the pace down a bit.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Back from Michigan and a great weekend/enjoyable trail race with 2Young and the rest of his Detroit crew. Cold (40'ish) and generally rainy throughout the weekend (particularly noticeable since we were camping). We all did 3 legs of the 62 mile race. My middle leg included about 15 minutes of pure swamp - muddy creek crossings and leg-sucking muck. I had about four instances of being stuck hip-deep and having to use my hands to lift my leg and extract it from the mud. That does tend to slow the pace down a bit.

Looking forward to reading the full race report!As for me, I had planned on running a 5 mile "race" yesterday. Just a solo effort around one of my normal loops. Well, failed that. 1 1/2 miles into the race (after 2 warm-up miles) I decided to just turn it into a 8 mile normal run. I don't know if it was fatigue, lack of motivation or what, but I just didn't have it.16 miles was planned for today but I turned it into 20. 7:39/145. That's faster than I had planned but conditions were nice and cool and the heart rate was within the zone so I just went with it. With two weeks before the marathon, I think I'll just run easy for the remainder. I think the rest will be more beneficial than any challenging runs would be at this point. I was worried about my endurance but after last Sunday's 22 and today's 20, I think I'll be OK. I still haven't decided on a goal for this one. I'll wait to see the weather forecast.

 

[gruecd]

You mean 59 more days and you'll have a qualifying time for the 2014 WS100 lottery, and the ultra madness will just be beginning. And then you'll start thinking about doing Vermont or Umstead to help you prepare. Next you are considering stage events like TransRockies, or Fastest Known Times for various trails. By 2016 you're bushwacking your way through the Barkley course, followed by months of heat training to prepare for Badwater.

Hahaha. Doubtful.That being said, my pacing gig felt so easy today (thank you, cool weather) that I honestly think I could've turned around and run it again. Ended up a tad fast (3;38:16), but the group was feeling good, so we rolled with it. Lots of "thank yous" and hugs/handshakes from the pacees afterwards. Pretty cool.

 

[SteelCurtain]

A lot of good runs out there. Keep it up.



Grue - awesome stuff. Giving back. Love it.

MY UPDATE

Overall -- just a lousy week of training. After my 1:34 half on Sunday, I'm not sure if I was hungover from that, but early in the week, my motivation was almost zero. Did a 3 mile recovery on Tuesday. Then late in the week, got all congested. Considered running through it, but decided against it. Finally, got back out there today and did 18 miles at 8:48/mile pace. Not sure on HR as my Garmin crapped out so I had to use the IPhone for distance. Did a hard reset of the Garmin and it looks like it is back.

Gonna try to do a speed workout (mile intervals) on Wednesday. Recovery likely on Tuesday AM. Hoping for the best.

 

[prosopis]

Nice races guys

Tomorrow starts a new week. seven miles on tap.

 

[SFBayDuck]

It has been a while since I have had a bad run but today was the day. I went out at 5:00am for 13 miles.

Friday I did 7 miles @ 9:22 as a pace run. I am thinking that may have played a part in todays mess.

I leave at 5:00 am and it is pitch black out here with no moon. Hard to see where street turns dark. I get maybe .25 miles out and I hear a strange noise. I thought one of my bottles fell off my fuel belt and I heard it hitting pavement. As I start to feel for the bottle I run into a horse. Yeah a big ### horse was in the middle of the road. Must have gotten loose and the noise I heard were its hooves on pavement. At that point I about #### myself and HR might have hit 200. I continue on and I am getting pain in my upper left leg but I persist on. About 3 miles in I am charged by a loose dog that looks like no one really takes care of it. Again I am put into fright mode.

Combination of weight loss and my heart rate monitor strap being old and stretched out had it constantly slipping to my belly which was really irritating. Same deal with the fuel belt. It has lost its stretchiness? and there is only about a millimeter of velcro holding it on so it flops way more then I want.

About mile 7 things just started falling apart and I was taking lots of breaks. I kept going but my left leg was really hurting. At 11.5 I called it and walked the rest of the way home. It was a pretty discouraging run but you cant win them all.

I think the long run one day after my 7 mile pace run was to much for me. I will rest tomorrow and hit it again on Monday. When I got home the horse was no where to be seen. I hope the owner found it. Sounds stupid but it scared the hell out of me. Glad it was to dark and to early for anyone to see my reaction.

Might wanna invest in a headlamp there, buddy. You can get a cheap one for $10.

That is awesome. I often worry about running into wildlife on my early morning runs (mtn lion spotting a few weeks ago nearby), and one of the closest trail heads actually goes through a horse stable...but I've never run into one of them.

Back from Michigan and a great weekend/enjoyable trail race with 2Young and the rest of his Detroit crew. Cold (40'ish) and generally rainy throughout the weekend (particularly noticeable since we were camping). We all did 3 legs of the 62 mile race. My middle leg included about 15 minutes of pure swamp - muddy creek crossings and leg-sucking muck. I had about four instances of being stuck hip-deep and having to use my hands to lift my leg and extract it from the mud. That does tend to slow the pace down a bit.

Swamp running - I love me some offroad, but that doesn't sound that great.

You mean 59 more days and you'll have a qualifying time for the 2014 WS100 lottery, and the ultra madness will just be beginning. And then you'll start thinking about doing Vermont or Umstead to help you prepare. Next you are considering stage events like TransRockies, or Fastest Known Times for various trails. By 2016 you're bushwacking your way through the Barkley course, followed by months of heat training to prepare for Badwater.

Hahaha. Doubtful.That being said, my pacing gig felt so easy today (thank you, cool weather) that I honestly think I could've turned around and run it again. Ended up a tad fast (3;38:16), but the group was feeling good, so we rolled with it. Lots of "thank yous" and hugs/handshakes from the pacees afterwards. Pretty cool.

We'll see, we'll see......And great job on the pacing gig!

 

[SFBayDuck]

The long slow Maffetone/Metabolic Efficiency Training experiment continued today.....

I bought Maffetone's "The Big Book of Endurance Training and Racing" this week and in reading through that picked up on the importance of a longer warmup. I've noticed my HR on a normal run, even with 1/4 mile or so of walking warmup, spikes instantly to 160+ before settling into where I want it to be. That may fire up the carb-burning systems and suppress fat burning, so today I strapped on the headlamp at 6:00 and set out walking toward the trailhead about a mile away. The trail then starts uphill but I kept walking for another mile before breaking into a "normal" pace, with my eye on my HR the entire time. The scenery as I threw the headlamp into the hydration vest and the sun started to come up was amazing, gotta love the early morning runs.

I was able to hold it pretty well for most of the first two hours, but after a steady 30 minute climb at about the 2 hour mark it rose up into the 150-155 range for much of the final 2 hours.

Before I went out I had some coffee with a splash of coconut milk, chia seeds with water, and a spoonful of coconut oil - basically all good fats. I also took 5 MAP amino acid supplements 30 minutes prior, and 5 afterward. I had a gel at 1:30/2:30/3:30, and just water (no extra electrolytes other than the GUs).

Finished with a mile of walking cool down which put me at about 4:10 by the time I was done, and 18 miles. Super slow pace, no question, but it was interesting that:

1) my HR didn't have that normal spike with the long warmup

2) I never felt low on energy despite no carbs before and minimal during

3) Despite chugging along for 4+ hours with a few climbs and some technical trail, I felt really good afterward, not beat up at all

It's kind of fun experimenting with this stuff. The key will be whether I actually get faster at these low HRs, which is the whole idea. I'll do the MAF (Maximum Aerobic Function) test this week to get a baseline - 5 miles at MAF (for me 131-141 pace) with mile splits recorded, a test which is then repeated every 3-4 weeks. The idea is that my pace will increase at the same HR over time, so the test allows that progress to be measured. I also got Joe Friels book on HR training, all with the goal of coming up with a training plan to meet my primary goal - running 50 miles in under eleven hours in April, and doing so without having to risk the possible GI distress of pounding gels down every 30 minutes.

 

[Sand]

Back from Michigan and a great weekend/enjoyable trail race with 2Young and the rest of his Detroit crew. Cold (40'ish) and generally rainy throughout the weekend (particularly noticeable since we were camping). We all did 3 legs of the 62 mile race. My middle leg included about 15 minutes of pure swamp - muddy creek crossings and leg-sucking muck. I had about four instances of being stuck hip-deep and having to use my hands to lift my leg and extract it from the mud. That does tend to slow the pace down a bit.

Says the guy with the bright white shoes in the facebook pic. I call shenanigans.

 

[Miscellaneous]

This looks like a good place to ask my running questions - if y'all will forgive a slow, plodding newbie...

5'10" 198 (down from 225)

I've always been a guy who does 1-2 5Ks a summer, and this year I decided to start kicking my *** into shape. I like to say I 'run 10-minute miles', but reality is probably closer to 11. I just ran a HM in 2:39. I'm NOT INTERESTED in a full.

Simple goals: I'd like to do a sub-30 5K and a sub-hour 10K; I'd like to be prepared next summer to do a Tough Mudder or Warrior Dash or something. Currently I come in at about 35ish for a 5K, 1:15 for a 10K. What would you tell me to do for the next 6-9 months to train me best for my goals? I live in Southern California, so weather won't be an issue.

Thanks!

 

[SteelCurtain]

A lot of good runs out there. Keep it up.



Grue - awesome stuff. Giving back. Love it.

MY UPDATE

Overall -- just a lousy week of training. After my 1:34 half on Sunday, I'm not sure if I was hungover from that, but early in the week, my motivation was almost zero. Did a 3 mile recovery on Tuesday. Then late in the week, got all congested. Considered running through it, but decided against it. Finally, got back out there today and did 18 miles at 8:48/mile pace. Not sure on HR as my Garmin crapped out so I had to use the IPhone for distance. Did a hard reset of the Garmin and it looks like it is back.

Gonna try to do a speed workout (mile intervals) on Wednesday. Recovery likely on Tuesday AM. Hoping for the best.

One other item that will make some shake their heads at me. Did this without any fuel except one banana at mile 10 and a bottle of water at mile 11.

 

[Ned]

The long slow Maffetone/Metabolic Efficiency Training experiment continued today.....

I bought Maffetone's "The Big Book of Endurance Training and Racing" this week and in reading through that picked up on the importance of a longer warmup. I've noticed my HR on a normal run, even with 1/4 mile or so of walking warmup, spikes instantly to 160+ before settling into where I want it to be. That may fire up the carb-burning systems and suppress fat burning, so today I strapped on the headlamp at 6:00 and set out walking toward the trailhead about a mile away. The trail then starts uphill but I kept walking for another mile before breaking into a "normal" pace, with my eye on my HR the entire time. The scenery as I threw the headlamp into the hydration vest and the sun started to come up was amazing, gotta love the early morning runs.

I was able to hold it pretty well for most of the first two hours, but after a steady 30 minute climb at about the 2 hour mark it rose up into the 150-155 range for much of the final 2 hours.

Before I went out I had some coffee with a splash of coconut milk, chia seeds with water, and a spoonful of coconut oil - basically all good fats. I also took 5 MAP amino acid supplements 30 minutes prior, and 5 afterward. I had a gel at 1:30/2:30/3:30, and just water (no extra electrolytes other than the GUs).

Finished with a mile of walking cool down which put me at about 4:10 by the time I was done, and 18 miles. Super slow pace, no question, but it was interesting that:

1) my HR didn't have that normal spike with the long warmup

2) I never felt low on energy despite no carbs before and minimal during

3) Despite chugging along for 4+ hours with a few climbs and some technical trail, I felt really good afterward, not beat up at all

It's kind of fun experimenting with this stuff. The key will be whether I actually get faster at these low HRs, which is the whole idea. I'll do the MAF (Maximum Aerobic Function) test this week to get a baseline - 5 miles at MAF (for me 131-141 pace) with mile splits recorded, a test which is then repeated every 3-4 weeks. The idea is that my pace will increase at the same HR over time, so the test allows that progress to be measured. I also got Joe Friels book on HR training, all with the goal of coming up with a training plan to meet my primary goal - running 50 miles in under eleven hours in April, and doing so without having to risk the possible GI distress of pounding gels down every 30 minutes.

Very cool. Interested to see how this goes.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Ned -- Sounds like you are absolutely killing 19/70 so far. Keep it up.

Jux -- Interesting that you converted your 16 into a 20. I strongly considered tacking on a few miles to my last 16-miler too, for the same reasons (feeling good, great conditions). This is the first time I've done a plan that had a run this long during the taper though, so I ultimately just decided to call it goood.

gruecd -- It seems like pacing would be a lot of fun, but also kind of stressful. Even though we all hit pretty even splits on training runs, I don't know that I'd like the pressure of a bunch of other people counting on me to get them right.

Miscellaneous -- Run more miles. Don't worry about doing anything special to build speed for now. Over the course of a few months, you'll be amazed at how much speed you can add just by running a bunch of easy miles. It's counterintutitive because most beginning runners think they need to practice running fast to be able to run fast in races, but that's generally not the case, and it's especially not the case for people who are relatively new to running. By far the biggest, fastest gains in performance come from simply increasing your weekly mileage.

________________

Saturday was 16, yesterday was 5 recovery, and today I need to get out for 7 GA. I'd like to take a day off, since it is a taper after all, but my work caledar is pretty full tomorrow so I really need to run today.

 

[BassNBrew]

The long slow Maffetone/Metabolic Efficiency Training experiment continued today.....

I bought Maffetone's "The Big Book of Endurance Training and Racing" this week and in reading through that picked up on the importance of a longer warmup. I've noticed my HR on a normal run, even with 1/4 mile or so of walking warmup, spikes instantly to 160+ before settling into where I want it to be. That may fire up the carb-burning systems and suppress fat burning, so today I strapped on the headlamp at 6:00 and set out walking toward the trailhead about a mile away. The trail then starts uphill but I kept walking for another mile before breaking into a "normal" pace, with my eye on my HR the entire time. The scenery as I threw the headlamp into the hydration vest and the sun started to come up was amazing, gotta love the early morning runs.

I was able to hold it pretty well for most of the first two hours, but after a steady 30 minute climb at about the 2 hour mark it rose up into the 150-155 range for much of the final 2 hours.

Before I went out I had some coffee with a splash of coconut milk, chia seeds with water, and a spoonful of coconut oil - basically all good fats. I also took 5 MAP amino acid supplements 30 minutes prior, and 5 afterward. I had a gel at 1:30/2:30/3:30, and just water (no extra electrolytes other than the GUs).

Finished with a mile of walking cool down which put me at about 4:10 by the time I was done, and 18 miles. Super slow pace, no question, but it was interesting that:

1) my HR didn't have that normal spike with the long warmup

2) I never felt low on energy despite no carbs before and minimal during

3) Despite chugging along for 4+ hours with a few climbs and some technical trail, I felt really good afterward, not beat up at all

It's kind of fun experimenting with this stuff. The key will be whether I actually get faster at these low HRs, which is the whole idea. I'll do the MAF (Maximum Aerobic Function) test this week to get a baseline - 5 miles at MAF (for me 131-141 pace) with mile splits recorded, a test which is then repeated every 3-4 weeks. The idea is that my pace will increase at the same HR over time, so the test allows that progress to be measured. I also got Joe Friels book on HR training, all with the goal of coming up with a training plan to meet my primary goal - running 50 miles in under eleven hours in April, and doing so without having to risk the possible GI distress of pounding gels down every 30 minutes.

Great run SFD. 4 hours is a serious run.Have you actually checked that 160+ hr manually? I was seeing the same thing and when I checked my pulse, I was actually in the 120 range. HR monitor just seems to like to run thru the roof at the start for no apparent reason. I've tried wetting it but that didn't help.

 

[sho nuff]

This looks like a good place to ask my running questions - if y'all will forgive a slow, plodding newbie...5'10" 198 (down from 225)I've always been a guy who does 1-2 5Ks a summer, and this year I decided to start kicking my *** into shape. I like to say I 'run 10-minute miles', but reality is probably closer to 11. I just ran a HM in 2:39. I'm NOT INTERESTED in a full. Simple goals: I'd like to do a sub-30 5K and a sub-hour 10K; I'd like to be prepared next summer to do a Tough Mudder or Warrior Dash or something. Currently I come in at about 35ish for a 5K, 1:15 for a 10K. What would you tell me to do for the next 6-9 months to train me best for my goals? I live in Southern California, so weather won't be an issue.Thanks!

What Ivan said...more miles.Build up a good base slowly get up to about 25-30 miles a week.You would not think it off-hand, but even a good slow 10 miler to finish a week will help your speed just by building your endurance.You will find you are not as tired during a 5k.When I say slow miles...looks like your race pace is around 10-11 min miles. Run these training runs slower. 11:30 or slower. You will get through the longer runs easier without wearing yourself out too bad...and it will help with the speed later.Now, to build up for the 10k and Tough Mudders...you may want to get a bit higher than 30 miles.Once your base is up...then you can worry about adding some speed training (intervals, fartleks...)

 

[Ned]

The long slow Maffetone/Metabolic Efficiency Training experiment continued today.....

I bought Maffetone's "The Big Book of Endurance Training and Racing" this week and in reading through that picked up on the importance of a longer warmup. I've noticed my HR on a normal run, even with 1/4 mile or so of walking warmup, spikes instantly to 160+ before settling into where I want it to be. That may fire up the carb-burning systems and suppress fat burning, so today I strapped on the headlamp at 6:00 and set out walking toward the trailhead about a mile away. The trail then starts uphill but I kept walking for another mile before breaking into a "normal" pace, with my eye on my HR the entire time. The scenery as I threw the headlamp into the hydration vest and the sun started to come up was amazing, gotta love the early morning runs.

I was able to hold it pretty well for most of the first two hours, but after a steady 30 minute climb at about the 2 hour mark it rose up into the 150-155 range for much of the final 2 hours.

Before I went out I had some coffee with a splash of coconut milk, chia seeds with water, and a spoonful of coconut oil - basically all good fats. I also took 5 MAP amino acid supplements 30 minutes prior, and 5 afterward. I had a gel at 1:30/2:30/3:30, and just water (no extra electrolytes other than the GUs).

Finished with a mile of walking cool down which put me at about 4:10 by the time I was done, and 18 miles. Super slow pace, no question, but it was interesting that:

1) my HR didn't have that normal spike with the long warmup

2) I never felt low on energy despite no carbs before and minimal during

3) Despite chugging along for 4+ hours with a few climbs and some technical trail, I felt really good afterward, not beat up at all

It's kind of fun experimenting with this stuff. The key will be whether I actually get faster at these low HRs, which is the whole idea. I'll do the MAF (Maximum Aerobic Function) test this week to get a baseline - 5 miles at MAF (for me 131-141 pace) with mile splits recorded, a test which is then repeated every 3-4 weeks. The idea is that my pace will increase at the same HR over time, so the test allows that progress to be measured. I also got Joe Friels book on HR training, all with the goal of coming up with a training plan to meet my primary goal - running 50 miles in under eleven hours in April, and doing so without having to risk the possible GI distress of pounding gels down every 30 minutes.

Great run SFD. 4 hours is a serious run.Have you actually checked that 160+ hr manually? I was seeing the same thing and when I checked my pulse, I was actually in the 120 range. HR monitor just seems to like to run thru the roof at the start for no apparent reason. I've tried wetting it but that didn't help.

It happens a lot for me. I know what 160 feels like vs 130 and just wait for it to come back. It can take up to a half mile for mine to start working right. Drives me crazy.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Jux -- Interesting that you converted your 16 into a 20. I strongly considered tacking on a few miles to my last 16-miler too, for the same reasons (feeling good, great conditions). This is the first time I've done a plan that had a run this long during the taper though, so I ultimately just decided to call it goood.

I think you made the right call. Another reason I stretched it is that I am running the 12/55 instead of the 18/55. You've logged way more miles at this point and a few more 20s than me. Misc- Ivan's advice to you is 100% correct.

 

[Juxtatarot]

I bought Maffetone's "The Big Book of Endurance Training and Racing" this week and in reading through that picked up on the importance of a longer warmup. I've noticed my HR on a normal run, even with 1/4 mile or so of walking warmup, spikes instantly to 160+ before settling into where I want it to be. That may fire up the carb-burning systems and suppress fat burning, so today I strapped on the headlamp at 6:00 and set out walking toward the trailhead about a mile away.

Interesting. I get that warm-up HR spike too. Sometimes up to 180 before settling back down within a mile. I have some bad habits to warm-up, generally just running my first mile at 30 to 45 seconds slower pace. I suppose I should start off walking too. What are others doing for warm-up?Edit: Just read BnBs and Neds posts. Now I'm really confused.

 

[Ned]

I bought Maffetone's "The Big Book of Endurance Training and Racing" this week and in reading through that picked up on the importance of a longer warmup. I've noticed my HR on a normal run, even with 1/4 mile or so of walking warmup, spikes instantly to 160+ before settling into where I want it to be. That may fire up the carb-burning systems and suppress fat burning, so today I strapped on the headlamp at 6:00 and set out walking toward the trailhead about a mile away.

Interesting. I get that warm-up HR spike too. Sometimes up to 180 before settling back down within a mile. I have some bad habits to warm-up, generally just running my first mile at 30 to 45 seconds slower pace. I suppose I should start off walking too. What are others doing for warm-up?Edit: Just read BnBs and Neds posts. Now I'm really confused.

You'd know if your HR was really hitting 180 at the start. That's near max effort for you, right? It's just a false reading, IMO.

 

[Juxtatarot]

I bought Maffetone's "The Big Book of Endurance Training and Racing" this week and in reading through that picked up on the importance of a longer warmup. I've noticed my HR on a normal run, even with 1/4 mile or so of walking warmup, spikes instantly to 160+ before settling into where I want it to be. That may fire up the carb-burning systems and suppress fat burning, so today I strapped on the headlamp at 6:00 and set out walking toward the trailhead about a mile away.

Interesting. I get that warm-up HR spike too. Sometimes up to 180 before settling back down within a mile. I have some bad habits to warm-up, generally just running my first mile at 30 to 45 seconds slower pace. I suppose I should start off walking too. What are others doing for warm-up?Edit: Just read BnBs and Neds posts. Now I'm really confused.

You'd know if your HR was really hitting 180 at the start. That's near max effort for you, right? It's just a false reading, IMO.

You're probably right. I've been wondering about this for a long time.

 

[MAC_32]

This looks like a good place to ask my running questions - if y'all will forgive a slow, plodding newbie...5'10" 198 (down from 225)I've always been a guy who does 1-2 5Ks a summer, and this year I decided to start kicking my *** into shape. I like to say I 'run 10-minute miles', but reality is probably closer to 11. I just ran a HM in 2:39. I'm NOT INTERESTED in a full. Simple goals: I'd like to do a sub-30 5K and a sub-hour 10K; I'd like to be prepared next summer to do a Tough Mudder or Warrior Dash or something. Currently I come in at about 35ish for a 5K, 1:15 for a 10K. What would you tell me to do for the next 6-9 months to train me best for my goals? I live in Southern California, so weather won't be an issue.Thanks!

To piggy back the others, that are correct, as you're building miles listen to your body. Whether you're increasing miles or intensity you're increasing the amount of fatigue training too, this is when most people hurt themselves because form issues are most common when fatigued. Fight through the tired and remain focused on your form, and if your body is barking at you the next day or 2 then rest up. Not knowing your build, 5'10 198 is normal for the stockier, but trim up the diet a bit more too. Great progress so far, but you'll find increasing miles are much easier when you're carrying less weight. Good news once you get to a certain weight with consistent running you'll find it difficult to put any weight back on.

 

[koby925]

Nice 20 miler Jux. You seem ready to rock the marathon. What's the goal time?

Very cool thing you do with the pacing work, grue. I'd love to do that. But I think I'd stick to pacing 5ks. Maybe people aiming for sub 20

Some good advice already given to Misc. First, congrats on dropping the weight you already have. That's great work. I agree that if you are training at 10-11 minute mile pace and then racing 35 minutes in the 5k that you are probably training too fast. Or you should race faster but you're probably not racing faster since you train near top capacity. That means that basically every run is a race for you. If you slow it down and just get consistent with the mileage, you will see results. I "coached" my wife, a novice runner, earlier this year into a 29:45 5k. She didn't have the weight to battle like you did but when she first started, a mile in 11-12 minutes was tough for her. Now she's going for 5k number 2 in a few weeks and I think she can run mid to low 29s this time. I just keep telling her KISS - keep it simple. She (and you) just need consistent miles at this point. Don't have to worry about intervals, hear rate, tempos, etc. just yet. Get a good base and then strt tinkering with that stuff. Good luck and keep us posted

 

[koby925]

My post HM week went:

Mon - off

Tues - off

Weds - the aforementioned 4 miler

Thurs - 6 miles in 7:40ish

Fri - off

Sat - 7 miles in 7:10ish pace - my hard run for the week

Sun - 7 miles (5k with my wife at 10:40 pace then 4 on my own)

Week total 24 miles

My legs definitely felt better as the week went on and feel pretty close to normal now. Talked to my "coach" yesterday (who incidentally is 11 years older than me and ran 1:19:20 in the Philly Half last week then paced someone to a 1:24 yesterday ) and he thought it was a good recovery week and this week I can try to get back close to typical mileage.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Nice 20 miler Jux. You seem ready to rock the marathon. What's the goal time?

It will depend on the weather. I suppose I'll shoot for a PR (3:08) if the weather is nice and cool. I can't imagine beating it by more than a few minutes though. Otherwise, I'd like to stay under 3:15. (But slower than that if it's really hot.)

 

[tri-man 47]

SFDuck - incredible run for you (per normal)!

Sand - at some point, I should have a race pic for you to verify the filth. They had a photographer out near the end of it. I wore older shoes that I knew I'd trash!

Misc. - the other guys have you covered. More miles! But it doesn't hurt to try a few accelerations to get the feel of a faster speed. At the risk of messing with your head, don't be too lazy about just using the lower legs and landing hard on the heel. Try to get some upper leg lift and land gently. Those upper leg muscles take more work and call for some leg strength; you'll tire more easily with a stronger stride, but that's where you build a better pace. Any sort of hills near you? It's always good to do some hill repeats. That mixes up the workouts, builds up the legs, and gets you landing on the forefoot as you push up the hill/incline.

 

[gruecd]

Very cool thing you do with the pacing work, grue. I'd love to do that. But I think I'd stick to pacing 5ks. Maybe people aiming for sub 20

Thanks, koby. Unfortunately, I don't think I've ever seen a pacer in a 5K!Week in review:

M - 5 @ 8:20/mile

T - 24.7 (trail) @ 10:11

W - rest

T - 10 @ 8:18 (lunch), 6 @ 8:46 (eve)

F - rest

S - 3 easy @ 8:39

S - 26.2 @ 8:19

Total - 75 miles

14 miles on tap for this afternoon. Then rest tomorrow, 20+ on the trail on Wednesday, rest (volleyball) Thursday, 12 on Friday, and 26 on Saturday. Sheesh.

 

[Ned]

Very cool thing you do with the pacing work, grue. I'd love to do that. But I think I'd stick to pacing 5ks. Maybe people aiming for sub 20

Thanks, koby. Unfortunately, I don't think I've ever seen a pacer in a 5K!Week in review:

M - 5 @ 8:20/mile

T - 24.7 (trail) @ 10:11

W - rest

T - 10 @ 8:18 (lunch), 6 @ 8:46 (eve)

F - rest

S - 3 easy @ 8:39

S - 26.2 @ 8:19

Total - 75 miles

14 miles on tap for this afternoon. Then rest tomorrow, 20+ on the trail on Wednesday, rest (volleyball) Thursday, 12 on Friday, and 26 on Saturday. Sheesh.

Good god.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Very cool thing you do with the pacing work, grue. I'd love to do that. But I think I'd stick to pacing 5ks. Maybe people aiming for sub 20

Thanks, koby. Unfortunately, I don't think I've ever seen a pacer in a 5K!Week in review:

M - 5 @ 8:20/mile

T - 24.7 (trail) @ 10:11

W - rest

T - 10 @ 8:18 (lunch), 6 @ 8:46 (eve)

F - rest

S - 3 easy @ 8:39

S - 26.2 @ 8:19

Total - 75 miles

14 miles on tap for this afternoon. Then rest tomorrow, 20+ on the trail on Wednesday, rest (volleyball) Thursday, 12 on Friday, and 26 on Saturday. Sheesh.

Good god.

That's basically four marathons in two weeks, with other training runs mixed in.

 

[koby925]

Very cool thing you do with the pacing work, grue. I'd love to do that. But I think I'd stick to pacing 5ks. Maybe people aiming for sub 20

Thanks, koby. Unfortunately, I don't think I've ever seen a pacer in a 5K!Week in review:

M - 5 @ 8:20/mile

T - 24.7 (trail) @ 10:11

W - rest

T - 10 @ 8:18 (lunch), 6 @ 8:46 (eve)

F - rest

S - 3 easy @ 8:39

S - 26.2 @ 8:19

Total - 75 miles

14 miles on tap for this afternoon. Then rest tomorrow, 20+ on the trail on Wednesday, rest (volleyball) Thursday, 12 on Friday, and 26 on Saturday. Sheesh.

Good god.

That's basically four marathons in two weeks, with other training runs mixed in.

Yet he yells at me for running a 4 mile run over a minute slower than my HM pace.

 

[SteelCurtain]

Very cool thing you do with the pacing work, grue. I'd love to do that. But I think I'd stick to pacing 5ks. Maybe people aiming for sub 20

Thanks, koby. Unfortunately, I don't think I've ever seen a pacer in a 5K!Week in review:

M - 5 @ 8:20/mile

T - 24.7 (trail) @ 10:11

W - rest

T - 10 @ 8:18 (lunch), 6 @ 8:46 (eve)

F - rest

S - 3 easy @ 8:39

S - 26.2 @ 8:19

Total - 75 miles

14 miles on tap for this afternoon. Then rest tomorrow, 20+ on the trail on Wednesday, rest (volleyball) Thursday, 12 on Friday, and 26 on Saturday. Sheesh.

Good god.

 

[gruecd]

Yet he yells at me for running a 4 mile run over a minute slower than my HM pace.

Don't worry, koby. I know what I'm doing.

 

[gruecd]

That's basically four marathons in two weeks, with other training runs mixed in.

Pretty much. And if you think I'm not going to add on "0.2" on Saturday, then, well....you don't know me very well.

 

[Sand]

Very cool thing you do with the pacing work, grue. I'd love to do that. But I think I'd stick to pacing 5ks. Maybe people aiming for sub 20

Thanks, koby. Unfortunately, I don't think I've ever seen a pacer in a 5K!Week in review:

M - 5 @ 8:20/mile

T - 24.7 (trail) @ 10:11

W - rest

T - 10 @ 8:18 (lunch), 6 @ 8:46 (eve)

F - rest

S - 3 easy @ 8:39

S - 26.2 @ 8:19

Total - 75 miles

14 miles on tap for this afternoon. Then rest tomorrow, 20+ on the trail on Wednesday, rest (volleyball) Thursday, 12 on Friday, and 26 on Saturday. Sheesh.

Good god.

That's basically four marathons in two weeks, with other training runs mixed in.

Yet he yells at me for running a 4 mile run over a minute slower than my HM pace.

And on a related note I did a whole 5 mile run today! Actually, it was awesome - the weather here is perfect right now. HR average was only 153, which (with a max of 188) may well be the first run below 75% of max HR that I've ever done. Weird to see it that low, though pace was still decent.

And just to keep in style - my week in review:

M - 5 @ 8:29/mile

T - 28 @ 20.5mph (223w avg. power)

W - 5 @ 8:28/mile, 1500yds (good ~1:13-1:14 100yd intervals in there)

T - 24.8 @ 17.2mph (173 avg power)

F - 5 @ 8:30/mile

S - 47.3 @ 18.8mph (180w), 1500yds

S - rest

8.5 good hours of work.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Grue, I expect a 100% effort out of you for that volleyball game. No excuses for not diving for balls or not elevating for blocks.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

No excuses for not diving for balls

 

[sho nuff]

What a difference 20 degrees makes.

55 to start today and stayed cool the whole run.

Kind of in a weird week that is supposed to be a recovery week...but with my daughter off next week, son off next Friday, and a Disney trip the week after...those 2 weeks will be more like recovery weeks.

So sort of making up a week here as I go just putting miles in before resuming the pfitz plan after the trip.

So went out for 9 GA miles today.

Same greenway...same hills...much different results on HR.

1 -- 9:48/137

2 -- 9:52/146 (nice hill at the start of this mile, with a good downhill, then right back up 2 nice hills)

3 -- 9:52/145

4 -- 9:33/146

5 -- 9:32/145

6 -- 9:37/146

7 -- 9:33/146

8 -- 9:46/148 (that hill in mile 2 with the downhill...now becomes the big uphill at the end of this mile)

9 -- 9:33/147

In the 70s this run would be in the 10:10+/mile range to try and keep those HRs and it would have creeped up big time on the hills. Today was smooth with a nice breeze and cool air.

Loved it.

 

[gruecd]

Grue, I expect a 100% effort out of you for that volleyball game. No excuses for not diving for balls or not elevating for blocks.

Dedication to greatness, Jux. Dedication to greatness.

 

[beer 302]

Yet he yells at me for running a 4 mile run over a minute slower than my HM pace.

Don't worry, koby. I know what I'm doing.

Please kids, don't try this at home I am a professional.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Kind of in a weird week that is supposed to be a recovery week...but with my daughter off next week, son off next Friday, and a Disney trip the week after...those 2 weeks will be more like recovery weeks.So sort of making up a week here as I go just putting miles in before resuming the pfitz plan after the trip.

Just to chime in, this is the right way to do it. Don't take a recovery week now if you know your schedule is going to be messed up for the next couple of weeks. As long as you take things reasonably easy, there's no harm in flip-flopping weeks.