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Ran a 10k in June (5 Viewers)

First off - LOVE the pics. Very cool.

The elites bounded off at 8:00 in an early wave start, and elites they were. Gru, you and I have something in common in that we've both had our butts kicked by Max King - he ended up destroying the course record in 3:08:50 - yes, just over a 6:00 pace for 31.2 trail miles.
GTFO :shock: Tell me he cut the course.....
Remember before the race when I said this wasn't a terribly hilly trail race? I'm never saying that again before a race, ever.
:lol: > 6,000' is no friggin' joke!
And then I hit Goat Hill. Looking at my Garmin data, this .7 mile hill climbs about 450', and registered a 24% grade at one point.
24%................. :loco: I've been running some 10%'ers and I can barely run up them. Did this require climbing gear?!
Max is such a machine, totally not human. As I was crawling up Goat Hill I had the image of him bounding up it like a mountain goat, which I'm sure he did. I'm not sure that 24% grade was accurate, it is just Garmin data after all, but the three data points regarding grade that register on Strava for that hill are 19%, 24.4%, and 16%. It was hands on legs hiking for sure, and I did have to stop for about 30 seconds at one point to catch my breath. No running for me today, quads and calves are burning and not really working right yet. I'll get out and take a few 15 minute strolls throughout the day and be happy with that. Taking in some extra protein today as well, my body has got some muscle damage to repair!
 
Positively brutal workout yesterday...feel great today.

Full sprint for 15 seconds, brief walk, light jog for 10 seconds - repeat for a mile. Did a modified version of my usual circuit, longer breaks though since I am mixing with a sprint workout too. Repeated above on the way home. Tried to match my time but was one sprint (15 seconds) short. Goal for next time.
MAC - a workout I'd read about some time ago was 30 seconds hard; 30 seconds easy ...similar to what you were doing. The HR takes most of the 30 second recovery to come back down before the next push. Either way - tough stuff.beer - good for you doing the repeats! Keep at it, and compare times a few months from now ..you'll be very pleased with the progress, I'm sure. Did you focus on form during the 400s? A good (fore)foot plant and full leg rotation? I.e., don't overreach the stride as a means of going faster.

liquors - what a great year of training. :buffdaddy:

Hey, Juxt - have you recovered?
Been swamped, playing catch up. Good tip on the 30:30, might mix that in for a change of pace on interval day. Danka, man.
 
Decent 10 miler on Monday followed by a fast 2 mile walk. Yesterday I felt slight discomfort in my outside upper hip / pelvic area. On the 3rd one mile repeat it went from annoying to excuriating. Feels like I bruise the outside point part. Any suggestions? I'm thinking IT band. I have bike class in an hour and will give it a go.
Sounds like IT band to me too, although I've never had those issues. My wife has them all the time, always on the point of her hip, not down at the knee. It could also be bursitis, as there are several bursa in that area. Nice workout, MAC. Just curious as to where you got that workout?
Kind of just created it on my own. I've experimented with high intensity training for several years and have just gotten a feel for what works and what doesn't. I'm a big believer in learning to workout when you're tired because that's when form is likely to go, maintain form during extreme levels of fatigue and you will be fine when you are not too. Easier to make progress.
 
Did something a little different with unseasonably warm temp's yesterday. Took my usual 3 mile route and broke it up into segments - 2/3 mile, 2/3 mile, 2/3 mile, 1 mile. Took 15 second breaks after the first two 2/3 mile segments and a full minute before the final mile. 3:35-3:40-3:50-6:10. The last 1/4 mile while I chased 17 mins was one of the better types of pain I have ever endured. Maybe next time I'll make it.

 
Finally try to get back into racing shape! Last year was my first Half (Annapolis Half) in December at 1:52:48 (8:36 pace).

Took most of Jan off for holidays, flu. Started light training back in Feb with longest training run of 9 miles.

New races I've signed up for for 2013.

Caesar Rodney Half in Wilmington DE March 17 (this weekend!)

Cherry Blossom 10 miler - April 7 (this was my ultimate goal when I started running last June)

George Washington Parkway 10 miler - April 21

Also RACE REPORT..

Just completed St Patrick's 8K in DC this past weekend as a jump start. Unfortunately, my wife and I went to Wizards game the night before, had way too much fun. Running 8k in the am with a small hangover and loss of 1 hr was not fun. I also didn't realize it was such a BIG race! About 4,000 runners!

I tried to take it easy as I really just wanted to finish without getting hurt. First mile was beautiful...up Penn Avenue to the Capitol, then near Union station. Last part of race was back down the National Mall. I was so tired though..not much in the tank to make any kind of move...not to mention I HATE these 8-10 year olds that can race right at my pace!! It's a little demoralizing. One of them passed me at the finish line and I had no reserves to take him. Had to hear it from my kids at the finish line...lol

Anyway got the 8k done in 41:43 (8:24 pace) so I was happy enough. Next weekend it that half and I really haven't put in the miles since December, but I remember this Board's advice about racing so I'm going to do it anyway!
Welcome back! If you haven't already looked, make sure you review the course map & elevation chart for the CR half. It's hilly, at least for my standards. I haven't run this exact race, but I've run a number of races in this part of Wilmington and know the roads well. The climb starting at mile 6 (S. Park Dr.) and finishing at mile 8 (Rockford Park) isn't a huge incline, but it's long and will hurt ya if you don't respect it. The good news is they're looping you around so you'll get to fly back down the same hills.

The Market St. hill is a sadistic finish. You're going to want to stab the course designer after you cross the mat....

GL!

 
So my 5K is coming up this Saturday. As most of you know, I don't race the shorter distances often and this (hopefully) will be the first 5K I've ever finished. I have some questions. And I'm already getting nervous.

1. How much rest should I get? I think my marathon schedule calls for intervals on Tuesday and a 15 miler or so on Wednesday. I'm thinking I'll run those and then take Thursday and Friday off. Good?

2. Regarding nutrition, I'm thinking about just going with my normal routine. No reason to do anything out of the ordinary, right?

3. I'm not sure what I want to do about warming up. I generally have a minimal warm up for long races but you can't really ease into a 5K like you can a marathon. From experience, I know it takes me a REALLY long time to be at my best. During long runs I always feel stronger after 6 or so miles. I'm thinking about a 3 or 4 mile warmup but that seems unorthodox.

4. No offense, Sand, but I REALLY don't want to Sand the start. Last time I about died after mile 2 and I'm worried about doing the same by starting so quick. I'm thinking about a reverse Sand and running the first 2 miles more comfortably and then giving it everything I have left the last 1.1. Stupid idea?

 
So my 5K is coming up this Saturday. As most of you know, I don't race the shorter distances often and this (hopefully) will be the first 5K I've ever finished. I have some questions. And I'm already getting nervous.

1. How much rest should I get? I think my marathon schedule calls for intervals on Tuesday and a 15 miler or so on Wednesday. I'm thinking I'll run those and then take Thursday and Friday off. Good? Yes. Fine.

2. Regarding nutrition, I'm thinking about just going with my normal routine. No reason to do anything out of the ordinary, right? Nope. Maybe take a Gel 45 minutes pre-race, but that's about it.

3. I'm not sure what I want to do about warming up. I generally have a minimal warm up for long races but you can't really ease into a 5K like you can a marathon. From experience, I know it takes me a REALLY long time to be at my best. During long runs I always feel stronger after 6 or so miles. I'm thinking about a 3 or 4 mile warmup but that seems unorthodox. I usually run 2-3 miles pre-5K races, trying to finish up right around the time they do the National Anthem.

4. No offense, Sand, but I REALLY don't want to Sand the start. Last time I about died after mile 2 and I'm worried about doing the same by starting so quick. I'm thinking about a reverse Sand and running the first 2 miles more comfortably and then giving it everything I have left the last 1.1. Stupid idea? While I think that the negative split is the right approach for the longer stuff, I think that "Sanding" is the way to go for a 5K. Go out hard and try to hang on as long as you can.
 
So my 5K is coming up this Saturday. As most of you know, I don't race the shorter distances often and this (hopefully) will be the first 5K I've ever finished. I have some questions. And I'm already getting nervous.

1. How much rest should I get? I think my marathon schedule calls for intervals on Tuesday and a 15 miler or so on Wednesday. I'm thinking I'll run those and then take Thursday and Friday off. Good? Yes. Fine.

2. Regarding nutrition, I'm thinking about just going with my normal routine. No reason to do anything out of the ordinary, right? Nope. Maybe take a Gel 45 minutes pre-race, but that's about it.

3. I'm not sure what I want to do about warming up. I generally have a minimal warm up for long races but you can't really ease into a 5K like you can a marathon. From experience, I know it takes me a REALLY long time to be at my best. During long runs I always feel stronger after 6 or so miles. I'm thinking about a 3 or 4 mile warmup but that seems unorthodox. I usually run 2-3 miles pre-5K races, trying to finish up right around the time they do the National Anthem.

4. No offense, Sand, but I REALLY don't want to Sand the start. Last time I about died after mile 2 and I'm worried about doing the same by starting so quick. I'm thinking about a reverse Sand and running the first 2 miles more comfortably and then giving it everything I have left the last 1.1. Stupid idea? While I think that the negative split is the right approach for the longer stuff, I think that "Sanding" is the way to go for a 5K. Go out hard and try to hang on as long as you can.
:goodposting: #4 - You'll leave too much time on the table if you go out "comfortable" for the first mile. Pull up your big boy britches and race this thing! Don't be that dork ripping by everyone at 3.0 because you held back too much at the start......

 
So my 5K is coming up this Saturday. As most of you know, I don't race the shorter distances often and this (hopefully) will be the first 5K I've ever finished. I have some questions. And I'm already getting nervous.

1. How much rest should I get? I think my marathon schedule calls for intervals on Tuesday and a 15 miler or so on Wednesday. I'm thinking I'll run those and then take Thursday and Friday off. Good? Yes. Fine.

2. Regarding nutrition, I'm thinking about just going with my normal routine. No reason to do anything out of the ordinary, right? Nope. Maybe take a Gel 45 minutes pre-race, but that's about it.

3. I'm not sure what I want to do about warming up. I generally have a minimal warm up for long races but you can't really ease into a 5K like you can a marathon. From experience, I know it takes me a REALLY long time to be at my best. During long runs I always feel stronger after 6 or so miles. I'm thinking about a 3 or 4 mile warmup but that seems unorthodox. I usually run 2-3 miles pre-5K races, trying to finish up right around the time they do the National Anthem.

4. No offense, Sand, but I REALLY don't want to Sand the start. Last time I about died after mile 2 and I'm worried about doing the same by starting so quick. I'm thinking about a reverse Sand and running the first 2 miles more comfortably and then giving it everything I have left the last 1.1. Stupid idea? While I think that the negative split is the right approach for the longer stuff, I think that "Sanding" is the way to go for a 5K. Go out hard and try to hang on as long as you can.
:goodposting: #4 - You'll leave too much time on the table if you go out "comfortable" for the first mile. Pull up your big boy britches and race this thing! Don't be that dork ripping by everyone at 3.0 because you held back too much at the start......
Dork? I was thinking doing that would be studly!
 
#4 - You'll leave too much time on the table if you go out "comfortable" for the first mile. Pull up your big boy britches and race this thing! Don't be that dork ripping by everyone at 3.0 because you held back too much at the start......
Dork? I was thinking doing that would be studly!
It's studly in a marathon. Definitely dorky to be the DB sprinting down the finishing chute in a 5K. :yes:
 
So my 5K is coming up this Saturday. As most of you know, I don't race the shorter distances often and this (hopefully) will be the first 5K I've ever finished. I have some questions. And I'm already getting nervous.

1. How much rest should I get? I think my marathon schedule calls for intervals on Tuesday and a 15 miler or so on Wednesday. I'm thinking I'll run those and then take Thursday and Friday off. Good? Yes. Fine.

2. Regarding nutrition, I'm thinking about just going with my normal routine. No reason to do anything out of the ordinary, right? Nope. Maybe take a Gel 45 minutes pre-race, but that's about it.

3. I'm not sure what I want to do about warming up. I generally have a minimal warm up for long races but you can't really ease into a 5K like you can a marathon. From experience, I know it takes me a REALLY long time to be at my best. During long runs I always feel stronger after 6 or so miles. I'm thinking about a 3 or 4 mile warmup but that seems unorthodox. I usually run 2-3 miles pre-5K races, trying to finish up right around the time they do the National Anthem.

4. No offense, Sand, but I REALLY don't want to Sand the start. Last time I about died after mile 2 and I'm worried about doing the same by starting so quick. I'm thinking about a reverse Sand and running the first 2 miles more comfortably and then giving it everything I have left the last 1.1. Stupid idea? While I think that the negative split is the right approach for the longer stuff, I think that "Sanding" is the way to go for a 5K. Go out hard and try to hang on as long as you can.
:goodposting: I always throw in several short intervals at or near 5K pace in that warmup. I'm like you are in that if I don't do a warmup, I won't be able to get down to 5K pace much before the halfway mark.

 
So my 5K is coming up this Saturday. As most of you know, I don't race the shorter distances often and this (hopefully) will be the first 5K I've ever finished. I have some questions. And I'm already getting nervous.

1. How much rest should I get? I think my marathon schedule calls for intervals on Tuesday and a 15 miler or so on Wednesday. I'm thinking I'll run those and then take Thursday and Friday off. Good? Yes. Fine.

2. Regarding nutrition, I'm thinking about just going with my normal routine. No reason to do anything out of the ordinary, right? Nope. Maybe take a Gel 45 minutes pre-race, but that's about it.

3. I'm not sure what I want to do about warming up. I generally have a minimal warm up for long races but you can't really ease into a 5K like you can a marathon. From experience, I know it takes me a REALLY long time to be at my best. During long runs I always feel stronger after 6 or so miles. I'm thinking about a 3 or 4 mile warmup but that seems unorthodox. I usually run 2-3 miles pre-5K races, trying to finish up right around the time they do the National Anthem.

4. No offense, Sand, but I REALLY don't want to Sand the start. Last time I about died after mile 2 and I'm worried about doing the same by starting so quick. I'm thinking about a reverse Sand and running the first 2 miles more comfortably and then giving it everything I have left the last 1.1. Stupid idea? While I think that the negative split is the right approach for the longer stuff, I think that "Sanding" is the way to go for a 5K. Go out hard and try to hang on as long as you can.
:goodposting: #4 - You'll leave too much time on the table if you go out "comfortable" for the first mile. Pull up your big boy britches and race this thing! Don't be that dork ripping by everyone at 3.0 because you held back too much at the start......
On board with 1, 2, and 4. Deferring to the distance guys for #3 though, you guys are wired differently. My 5k warm up is a brisk 400 meter jog followed by the pre race ####, that's about it. If I'm unusually tight I'll stretch that muscle out before and after the jog/#### too, but with adequate rest pre race it shouldn't be an issue.
 
I'd agree with what the others said with these additions - I'd run Friday. Not much and not fast at all, but I think doing something the day before is beneficial, especially for a 5k vs. longer races. Something like 3 miles and some really easy strides. I've gotten into 5k races where I didn't run the day before and my legs feel like jello.

For pacing, I agree somewhat. I wouldn't shoot for negative split (if it happens great) for fear of leaving too much in the tank, but I don't know if I'd go all out either. Maybe 10-15 seconds faster than your 5k overall pace. I try to run my first mile in what my coach always called "comfortably fast"

 
'Ned said:
'DanFouts said:
Finally try to get back into racing shape! Last year was my first Half (Annapolis Half) in December at 1:52:48 (8:36 pace).

Took most of Jan off for holidays, flu. Started light training back in Feb with longest training run of 9 miles.

New races I've signed up for for 2013.

Caesar Rodney Half in Wilmington DE March 17 (this weekend!)

Cherry Blossom 10 miler - April 7 (this was my ultimate goal when I started running last June)

George Washington Parkway 10 miler - April 21

Also RACE REPORT..

Just completed St Patrick's 8K in DC this past weekend as a jump start. Unfortunately, my wife and I went to Wizards game the night before, had way too much fun. Running 8k in the am with a small hangover and loss of 1 hr was not fun. I also didn't realize it was such a BIG race! About 4,000 runners!

I tried to take it easy as I really just wanted to finish without getting hurt. First mile was beautiful...up Penn Avenue to the Capitol, then near Union station. Last part of race was back down the National Mall. I was so tired though..not much in the tank to make any kind of move...not to mention I HATE these 8-10 year olds that can race right at my pace!! It's a little demoralizing. One of them passed me at the finish line and I had no reserves to take him. Had to hear it from my kids at the finish line...lol

Anyway got the 8k done in 41:43 (8:24 pace) so I was happy enough. Next weekend it that half and I really haven't put in the miles since December, but I remember this Board's advice about racing so I'm going to do it anyway!
Welcome back! If you haven't already looked, make sure you review the course map & elevation chart for the CR half. It's hilly, at least for my standards. I haven't run this exact race, but I've run a number of races in this part of Wilmington and know the roads well. The climb starting at mile 6 (S. Park Dr.) and finishing at mile 8 (Rockford Park) isn't a huge incline, but it's long and will hurt ya if you don't respect it. The good news is they're looping you around so you'll get to fly back down the same hills.

The Market St. hill is a sadistic finish. You're going to want to stab the course designer after you cross the mat....

GL!
:thumbup: Thanks Ned! Appreciate the course input!!!

 
I'd agree with what the others said with these additions - I'd run Friday. Not much and not fast at all, but I think doing something the day before is beneficial, especially for a 5k vs. longer races. Something like 3 miles and some really easy strides. I've gotten into 5k races where I didn't run the day before and my legs feel like jello.
That's actually my approach, too, but I know a lot of the other guys in here like resting the day before a race. To each his own...
 
Beer - not sure if you were seriously asking for pointers, but my tip on running trails is pretty simple - ease into it, but start running trails. If you're not used to it you'll notice soreness initially in places you're not used to in your legs, hips, maybe even your core. I do actually do some balance work to help out with that a bit - one legged stuff, usually on one of these. More importantly it's the mindset change - so many of you guys are so good at just churning out the miles at the exact same pace. On trails it becomes more about churning out the miles at the same effort - and the pace will vary based on the terrain.
Absolutely serious. Going to try to get on the trail this weekend if it all falls right. It's just about 4.5 miles from the house so thinking of jogging down & back and doing some sort of loop around on the trails. Link below is the course map from last years run. Or I may just drive down and run around in the woods for the morning.http://rockhillstriders.wordpress.com/asc-greenway-%C2%BD-marathon-and-8k-trail-races/asc-greenway-2012-half-marathon-course/

Biggest thing I'm worried about is I have zero lateral movement in my right knee. It's been scoped twice and does alright forward/backward but side-to-side is a non-starter. That doesn't really lend itself to running on something that has suspect footing.

 
I'd agree with what the others said with these additions - I'd run Friday. Not much and not fast at all, but I think doing something the day before is beneficial, especially for a 5k vs. longer races. Something like 3 miles and some really easy strides. I've gotten into 5k races where I didn't run the day before and my legs feel like jello.

For pacing, I agree somewhat. I wouldn't shoot for negative split (if it happens great) for fear of leaving too much in the tank, but I don't know if I'd go all out either. Maybe 10-15 seconds faster than your 5k overall pace. I try to run my first mile in what my coach always called "comfortably fast"
Sanding TM gets over exaggerated in here. It's pretty much the bolded. Anything more than that, and you're toast. It's certainly a fine art to pace a perfect 5K.I'm also a big fan of a 2+ mile warmup before the start. Nothing faster than LR pacing for me and then a few striders at or near 5K pace at the very end.

 
Beer - not sure if you were seriously asking for pointers, but my tip on running trails is pretty simple - ease into it, but start running trails. If you're not used to it you'll notice soreness initially in places you're not used to in your legs, hips, maybe even your core. I do actually do some balance work to help out with that a bit - one legged stuff, usually on one of these. More importantly it's the mindset change - so many of you guys are so good at just churning out the miles at the exact same pace. On trails it becomes more about churning out the miles at the same effort - and the pace will vary based on the terrain.
Absolutely serious. Going to try to get on the trail this weekend if it all falls right. It's just about 4.5 miles from the house so thinking of jogging down & back and doing some sort of loop around on the trails. Link below is the course map from last years run. Or I may just drive down and run around in the woods for the morning.http://rockhillstrid...arathon-course/

Biggest thing I'm worried about is I have zero lateral movement in my right knee. It's been scoped twice and does alright forward/backward but side-to-side is a non-starter. That doesn't really lend itself to running on something that has suspect footing.
Do you have a link to the site that course map came off of? I am trying to see if those are MTB trails that have difficulty ratings. About 45 minutes from home, I have access to some awesome MTB trails that are rated difficult, medium and easy and they intersect each other all over the place. The also have number signs that can help get me back to the car. I attack them with a distance in mind and then pick the level of difficulty based on how I am feeling. If I am gassed, drop down to easy for a while or crank up the harder ones if I am feeling good. I'd think you could do something similar on those. I'd drive there and skip the pavement warm up and fully enjoy the trails. As for your knee, all the more reason to start on easier trails and work your way up. Take your cell phone and if you have an iPhone, download the MapMyRun App, you can't grant others real time access to your run (good safety measure).
 
1. How much rest should I get? I think my marathon schedule calls for intervals on Tuesday and a 15 miler or so on Wednesday. I'm thinking I'll run those and then take Thursday and Friday off. Good? You might do something on Friday ...even a walk with a few bouncy strides up any inclines.

2. Regarding nutrition, I'm thinking about just going with my normal routine. No reason to do anything out of the ordinary, right? Normal is good ...maybe go light on any food, though, and as suggested, do a gel before the start.

3. I'm not sure what I want to do about warming up. I generally have a minimal warm up for long races but you can't really ease into a 5K like you can a marathon. From experience, I know it takes me a REALLY long time to be at my best. During long runs I always feel stronger after 6 or so miles. I'm thinking about a 3 or 4 mile warmup but that seems unorthodox. I always to at least 2 miles for 5Ks. Doing 3 to race 3 might seem odd, but go with what works. Add in some accelerations (I prefer them longer, like 100-150 yards or so).

4. No offense, Sand, but I REALLY don't want to Sand the start. Last time I about died after mile 2 and I'm worried about doing the same by starting so quick. I'm thinking about a reverse Sand and running the first 2 miles more comfortably and then giving it everything I have left the last 1.1. Stupid idea? You need to come out of this with success and, therefore, confidence. So it's OK to be a bit cautious. If your early pace (first half-mile) is about 20-30 sec/mile faster than your 5K overall target(so roughly mile repeat pace?), I think you'll be OK. Then again, if you target a 5K pace and feel you can hold it steady throughout, go for it. I think you're better served by being challenged to maintain pace and stride over the final mile, so I join with the others in resisting the idea of holding back too much.
 
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I'd agree with what the others said with these additions - I'd run Friday. Not much and not fast at all, but I think doing something the day before is beneficial, especially for a 5k vs. longer races. Something like 3 miles and some really easy strides. I've gotten into 5k races where I didn't run the day before and my legs feel like jello.
That's actually my approach, too, but I know a lot of the other guys in here like resting the day before a race. To each his own...
I am with gruecd here, if I am doing a real taper for a race I would take a rest day 2 days before the race and jog 3-4 miles the day before to loosen up.For the day of the race I start warming up 45-60 minutes before the race and go for a 3-4 easy run, but I run the last 400 meters at goal race pace. It's something I borrowed from "Jack Daniel's Running Formula" where he describes how most people don't really get into a workout until the 2nd or 3rd repeat, so you do a quick 400 (or a minute or two at tempo effort) to get that first bad interval out of the way and to get your body ready for the effort level that's coming. As long as you finish it about 15-20 minutes or more before your race the benefits should outweigh the energy loss.Then I hit the porta-pots one last time, stretch out, and just kill time until it's go time.
 
Beer - not sure if you were seriously asking for pointers, but my tip on running trails is pretty simple - ease into it, but start running trails. If you're not used to it you'll notice soreness initially in places you're not used to in your legs, hips, maybe even your core. I do actually do some balance work to help out with that a bit - one legged stuff, usually on one of these. More importantly it's the mindset change - so many of you guys are so good at just churning out the miles at the exact same pace. On trails it becomes more about churning out the miles at the same effort - and the pace will vary based on the terrain.
Absolutely serious. Going to try to get on the trail this weekend if it all falls right. It's just about 4.5 miles from the house so thinking of jogging down & back and doing some sort of loop around on the trails. Link below is the course map from last years run. Or I may just drive down and run around in the woods for the morning.http://rockhillstrid...arathon-course/

Biggest thing I'm worried about is I have zero lateral movement in my right knee. It's been scoped twice and does alright forward/backward but side-to-side is a non-starter. That doesn't really lend itself to running on something that has suspect footing.
Do you have a link to the site that course map came off of? I am trying to see if those are MTB trails that have difficulty ratings. About 45 minutes from home, I have access to some awesome MTB trails that are rated difficult, medium and easy and they intersect each other all over the place. The also have number signs that can help get me back to the car. I attack them with a distance in mind and then pick the level of difficulty based on how I am feeling. If I am gassed, drop down to easy for a while or crank up the harder ones if I am feeling good. I'd think you could do something similar on those. I'd drive there and skip the pavement warm up and fully enjoy the trails. As for your knee, all the more reason to start on easier trails and work your way up. Take your cell phone and if you have an iPhone, download the MapMyRun App, you can't grant others real time access to your run (good safety measure).
http://www.leroysprings.com/resources/files/Greenway/2010%20Greenway%20Kiosk%20Map%20Standard.pdfTakes a bit to load up but a pretty good map of the area. From what everyone tells me there is a good mix of trails as you described. Place opens at daylight so I'll get there early and have it. I fully expect to be like a kid in a candy store, been wanting to run on the trails for a long time. Good call on the MapMyRun app. I use Runkeeper for everything but it's pay to allow someone to see real time, might have to switch over.

 
Seriously works every ####### time. :hifive:
:hifive: I have been going with "do you Cross-fit" as well. Both work well!
I don't so much mind the missed runs, but the failed tempo run bothers me, if only because I don't really know for sure if I needed to stop because of the hamstring or if it was just a convenient excuse to stop. My physical conditioning is fine, but I feel like a bit of a "mental midget" sometimes (insert 2Young joke here). I really need to get better at being comfortable with discomfort. Any tips??
Like BnB said = we know how mentally strong you are. When dealing with an injury, it's best to be cautious. Missing parts of some runs will have little to no effect on your overall training, but over train just once...
You're gonna hate me for saying this.... My #1 crutch for dealing with discomfort is the HRM.
Never hate you for saying it. We like the consistency ;)
'DanFouts said:
Running 8k in the am with a small hangover...
Is there any other way to race :shrug: ______________________

My update:

Taking a week off of the weights and only doing cardio. Yesterday was 70 minutes on elliptical with Ab Ripper; Today was Plyo. Tomorrow I'm up early to do Core Synergistics before two straight days at SeaWorld with my daughters. I'm living the dream :banned:

 
4. No offense, Sand, but I REALLY don't want to Sand the start. Last time I about died after mile 2 and I'm worried about doing the same by starting so quick. I'm thinking about a reverse Sand and running the first 2 miles more comfortably and then giving it everything I have left the last 1.1. Stupid idea?
Vote YES. I can't find the study, but you tend to slow down less when you start fast than the other way around (speed up after starting slow). The only issue is it hurts bad when done right. It does work, though.

Sanding TM gets over exaggerated in here. It's pretty much the bolded. Anything more than that, and you're toast. It's certainly a fine art to pace a perfect 5K.

I'm also a big fan of a 2+ mile warmup before the start. Nothing faster than LR pacing for me and then a few striders at or near 5K pace at the very end.
I agree with Ned about the 15 sec. advice and the warmup. I don't do a 2 mile warmup, but jog for 10 minutes or so. The dig on Sanding is just beyond the pale, though! :P
 
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4. No offense, Sand, but I REALLY don't want to Sand the start. Last time I about died after mile 2 and I'm worried about doing the same by starting so quick. I'm thinking about a reverse Sand and running the first 2 miles more comfortably and then giving it everything I have left the last 1.1. Stupid idea?
Vote YES. I can't find the study, but you tend to slow down less when you start fast than the other way around (speed up after starting slow). The only issue is it hurts bad when done right. It does work, though.

Sanding TM gets over exaggerated in here. It's pretty much the bolded. Anything more than that, and you're toast. It's certainly a fine art to pace a perfect 5K.

I'm also a big fan of a 2+ mile warmup before the start. Nothing faster than LR pacing for me and then a few striders at or near 5K pace at the very end.
I agree with Ned about the 15 sec. advice and the warmup. I don't do a 2 mile warmup, but jog for 10 minutes or so. The dig on Sanding is just beyond the pale, though! :P
If you ain't "Sanding", you ain't trying.
 
Thanks all, it was a hell of a day. As you all know, my race reports are a little verbose.....

Got up to Auburn on Friday afternoon for runner check in, and the running store that it was being held was packed and buzzing with energy. Being the town that Western States ends in it's always fun to be up there, and the Who's Who of trail running are usually around - as we walked out the RD of Western States was standing on the sidewalk chatting it up. I started feeling an excess of nervous energy, so I generously offered to buy my girlfriend (and I) a drink across the street at a local bar. Two vodka sodas later, I was feeling calmer so we drove out to the starting line in Cool, CA, to make sure we had knew exactly how long it would take to get there. Back to the hotel for dinner and an early night, was in bed and asleep by 9:30 with the alarm set for 5:15 AM.

Of course at 1:15 AM I was awake, and there was no hope of going back to sleep. Watched a few videos on the iPad, got back in bed with ESPN radio on in an earphone, and I think I finally drifted off to sleep at about 4:45, with the alarm going off thirty minutes later. One of these days I hope to get a good night's sleep before a race, but not sure that will ever happen! I threw down my smoothie of coconut milk, chia seeds, and a banana, a couple of cups of coffee, and then it was off to Cool.

We arrived and got parked, which turned out to be 3/4 of a mile down the road that the race would start on - cars jammed in on both sides on a small park road. My girlfriend had planned to watch the start, hang around for the end of the initial 8 mile loop that would bring us back through the start and then go back to the hotel for awhile, but with the parking the way it was she realized she was in for the long haul - what a trooper.

The elites bounded off at 8:00 in an early wave start, and elites they were. Gru, you and I have something in common in that we've both had our butts kicked by Max King - he ended up destroying the course record in 3:08:50 - yes, just over a 6:00 pace for 31.2 trail miles. The rest of the runners kicked off at 8:10, and I started in the back by design and headed off down the road for a bit before hitting the trail.

We hit single track pretty quickly and I was already regretting my decision to start at the back - while I had passed a few folks on the road, the trail began a long conga line of runners with no way to move up. At the 2.4 mile mark we all just stopped - we hit a creek crossing and runners were tiptoing one-at-a-time across some rocks. I thought about doing what a few runners were doing and going around the line and plowing through the creek, but decided soaking wet feet at mile 2.4 of my 2nd ever ultra might not be the best idea. A few minutes later I was finally across the river and back onto single track, more of the same with a line of 30-40 runners chugging along. It was single track for the rest of the initial 8 miles, and I came back into that first aid station at the start to see my girlfriend again, a few minutes ahead of my 13:00 goal pace despite leaving 5-6 minutes on that section of the course due to the crowding. For this stretch my mile splits ranged between 10:31-12:55, with the exception of the 13:52 mile due to the line at the creek.

I had decided my hydration and nutrition strategy would be liquid calories in the form of GU Brew with some real food (potatoes dipped in salt) and Coke mixed in at the aid stations. Of course I forgot to mix the GU into my water bottle at the start, but was lucky I threw 2 gels in my pocket so I relied on them for that initial stretch. The rest of the way this strategy worked pretty well, although my decision to just carry one bottle probably cost me a bit as twice I was out before I got to an aid station. I ended up drinking about 176 oz of fluid during the race without peeing once (in fact it was a good 90 minutes after before I finally did), and got a little low on energy at about the 5:00 mark (go figure), but it worked pretty well. I will try on the 50M to eat and drink a little more, especially early.

At about mile 9 we hit a three mile stretch of downhill, dropping 1000' down into the canyon to the American River. It was still crowded in that stretch but we ran along on a rolling fire road for the next six miles or so, it was nice to get off the single track for a bit and have some room to run. I chatted up a 66 year old guy from Sacramento also rocking the Hokas, turned out this was his first ever ultra and we talked about our plans to run the same 50M next month. For this nine mile stretch my splits were 10:52-12:26, staying ahead of my 13:00 goal pace pretty easily.

Remember before the race when I said this wasn't a terribly hilly trail race? I'm never saying that again before a race, ever. Mile 17 began the climb back out of the canyon, which started pretty well as I consistently out-hiked people up the trail. It was hard work, but I was moving along ok - 12:26/11:50/15:44/16:53 - uh oh, tired legs those last two miles, hammies and calves burning. Luckily that got us to the top to find some more rolling hills, an aid station to fill my empty bottle, and then off for a few more miles of rolling single track with a familiar name through mile 25 - I averaged about a 12:35 pace through here, so considering I was pushing through the 20 mile barrier and this wasn't exactly flat, I was pretty stoked to still be moving ahead of my 13:00 pace.

And then I hit Goat Hill. Looking at my Garmin data, this .7 mile hill climbs about 450', and registered a 24% grade at one point. This was part of a 20:18 mile as I barely was able to keep my legs moving. It turns out this was the same hill that almost ended my buddy Jim's Western States attempt. The hill that when he got to the next aid station, he sat down and said he was done, only to have Volunteer Mike tell him to get up and get moving. Well who should be working the aid station at the top of Goat Hill yesterday but Mike himself! I told him how much he meant to Jim's finish that day last June, we spent a minute chatting, and then I was off again with a little renewed mental energy and inspiration.

I was now past the marathon distance for only the 2nd time ever, and feeling it. My hips, quads, and calves were all sore, but I was able to keep chugging along. It was single track again, and I fell in behind a guy going the same pace I was - running slowly on the flats/downs, and hiking anything that even slightly resembled an incline. But that climb, and the cumulative distance, had taken it's toll and I averaged a 14:22 through that 4 mile stretch. We hit the last aid station at mile 29.8 with inspiration signs and cheers of "it's not a matter of if anymore, just when!" and of course hit one last climb, another 440' over a mile and half. I managed to pass a few people through here, including the CEO/Founder of Moeben (arm sleeves and gear), who is running Badwater again this year. Of course she is like 60 years old, but still. Finally it was across the finish line in 6:24:13, and a near collapse into the arms of my (still waiting) girlfriend.

With a goal time of 6:45 and a hope for 6:20, I'm obviously pretty happy with how things went. My quads and hips are super sore right now, but I experienced the same thing in October after my trail marathon and know they'll be better later this week. I'll go see my PT this week to get things worked out (btw she PR'd in 4:52!) to make sure my body is set for the stretch run of my 50M training.
Great report Duck. Glad you had a successful event. Really nice pacing.Sanding the start comes in handy on these events. I don't know what it is about these events, but they always seem to jump right into the single track too early. The bottlenecks are frustrating when you just want to get into a steady pace and run.

 
Good workout tonight. Pfitz wanted 9 with 5 x 600M at 5K pace. Ran 5+ miles, checked the track, and almost bagged the intervals after seeing that the track was still covered in snow. Talked myself out of it, ran a little further to a nice, dry, relatively flat stretch of road and started the intervals, almost quitting during the third one because, well, it ####### hurt. Kept going though, and finished the last two.

Intervals were 0.38 miles each, so actually a little longer than 600 meters, but I hit 'em in 2:19, 2:14, 2:20, 2:14, and 2:16. Average was 2:17/rep (6:01/mile). 90-sec recovery jogs (65% of the 2:17).

Yoga tomorrow morning, 15 MLR tomorrow afternoon, and 7 recovery on Wednesday morning before work. Then all that's left between me and my half marathon on Saturday is an easy 3-mile shakeout run on Friday.

 
We hit single track pretty quickly and I was already regretting my decision to start at the back - while I had passed a few folks on the road, the trail began a long conga line of runners with no way to move up. At the 2.4 mile mark we all just stopped - we hit a creek crossing and runners were tiptoing one-at-a-time across some rocks. I thought about doing what a few runners were doing and going around the line and plowing through the creek, but decided soaking wet feet at mile 2.4 of my 2nd ever ultra might not be the best idea. A few minutes later I was finally across the river and back onto single track, more of the same with a line of 30-40 runners chugging along. It was single track for the rest of the initial 8 miles, and I came back into that first aid station at the start to see my girlfriend again, a few minutes ahead of my 13:00 goal pace despite leaving 5-6 minutes on that section of the course due to the crowding. For this stretch my mile splits ranged between 10:31-12:55, with the exception of the 13:52 mile due to the line at the creek.
Great report Duck. Glad you had a successful event. Really nice pacing.Sanding the start comes in handy on these events. I don't know what it is about these events, but they always seem to jump right into the single track too early. The bottlenecks are frustrating when you just want to get into a steady pace and run.
Yeah, I may reconsider this strategy of starting at the back during trail runs. You can see in this pic of me crossing the start line, I'm literally one of the last 3-4 people, which was by design (good news is that means I passed at least 300 people throughout the day). It's crucial for me to ease into my pace and not go out faster than I should, but when we hit that single track at mile 2 or so it did get a little frustrating. Most trail races 2 miles before single track would be plenty, but with about 900 runners that wasn't the case here. The good news is that my upcoming 50M is on bike path for the first 25ish miles, so I won't have to worry about it - I should be able to run whatever pace I want for that entire section before we hit single track, and by that time we should be pretty spread out.
 
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My trail question of the day, shoes. I typically run in neutral NB 1080's. I have a pair of Stability Asics GT 2000's that have just never gotten along with my feet. They turn my arch into a throbbing soreness of meat when I wear them on the roads. They are like brand new with only about 120 miles on them, would those work on the trails better than the NB? I'll hang up and listen.

 
My trail question of the day, shoes. I typically run in neutral NB 1080's. I have a pair of Stability Asics GT 2000's that have just never gotten along with my feet. They turn my arch into a throbbing soreness of meat when I wear them on the roads. They are like brand new with only about 120 miles on them, would those work on the trails better than the NB? I'll hang up and listen.
I'd never run in the stability shoe if I'm definitely a neutral runner. Keep'm for around the house or whatever.Get yourself a pair of thesefor trails.

 
personal best 6.25 miles this morning. i've been running off and on for 2 years now, and this makes the 4th time i've worked up to the 5 mile plateau only to get injured/sick/life happening. busted through that wall now and no plans on turning back!

felt great this morning with temperatures right around 50. in fact, i felt so good i thought about going another couple of miles but decided to stop while i still had a smile on my face. i know 6 miles isn't much compared to the the volume some of you guys put out, but it was big for me to finally get past that 5 mile sticking point.
Nice. If you stick with it, you'll find this is an easy distance to maintain, and it's a great base if you ever want to do something longer.
that's what i'm thinking. i'd like to eventually get my runs during the week up to about 5 (currently at 3-4) and my long run on the weekend up to about 8 or so. sprinkle in a few 5k and 10k races and maybe work up to a half in the fall.
This is pretty much exactly my scenario right now. Today is the opening day to register for the disney wine and dine half marathon in November, which is my goal. Running a 5k in MN in a couple weeks and doing a mud run first weekend in June. Was thinking a 10k sometime midsummer and then a 16 week half marathon training schedule from there.
 
My trail question of the day, shoes. I typically run in neutral NB 1080's. I have a pair of Stability Asics GT 2000's that have just never gotten along with my feet. They turn my arch into a throbbing soreness of meat when I wear them on the roads. They are like brand new with only about 120 miles on them, would those work on the trails better than the NB? I'll hang up and listen.
I'd never run in the stability shoe if I'm definitely a neutral runner. Keep'm for around the house or whatever.Get yourself a pair of thesefor trails.
+1 for the Casscadias, I have two pair and they are, by far, the most comfortable and supportive shoes I've ever had. AND, at $71, that is a great price. By nature, trail shoes are a stability shoe, not so much with a built up heel like a running shoe, but rather how the entire shoe is constructed to keep down ankle rolls, etc. Actually, just wearing a trail specific shoe may help with the knee issues too.
 
We hit single track pretty quickly and I was already regretting my decision to start at the back - while I had passed a few folks on the road, the trail began a long conga line of runners with no way to move up. At the 2.4 mile mark we all just stopped - we hit a creek crossing and runners were tiptoing one-at-a-time across some rocks. I thought about doing what a few runners were doing and going around the line and plowing through the creek, but decided soaking wet feet at mile 2.4 of my 2nd ever ultra might not be the best idea. A few minutes later I was finally across the river and back onto single track, more of the same with a line of 30-40 runners chugging along. It was single track for the rest of the initial 8 miles, and I came back into that first aid station at the start to see my girlfriend again, a few minutes ahead of my 13:00 goal pace despite leaving 5-6 minutes on that section of the course due to the crowding. For this stretch my mile splits ranged between 10:31-12:55, with the exception of the 13:52 mile due to the line at the creek.
Great report Duck. Glad you had a successful event. Really nice pacing.Sanding the start comes in handy on these events. I don't know what it is about these events, but they always seem to jump right into the single track too early. The bottlenecks are frustrating when you just want to get into a steady pace and run.
Yeah, I may reconsider this strategy of starting at the back during trail runs. You can see in this pic of me crossing the start line, I'm literally one of the last 3-4 people, which was by design (good news is that means I passed at least 300 people throughout the day). It's crucial for me to ease into my pace and not go out faster than I should, but when we hit that single track at mile 2 or so it did get a little frustrating. Most trail races 2 miles before single track would be plenty, but with about 900 runners that wasn't the case here. The good news is that my upcoming 50M is on bike path for the first 25ish miles, so I won't have to worry about it - I should be able to run whatever pace I want for that entire section before we hit single track, and by that time we should be pretty spread out.
I've run into the bottleneck in races with only 150 and 400. At Mitchell last year I started the first 3 miles (hardtop) just 30 seconds a mile faster and had much less traffic over the single track. All it takes is for one person to overreach significantly during their first mile to create a huge backlog.I won't have that issue at Umstead. Zero single track. 100% cinder, gravel, dirt park service road.

 
Sand - 6.2 mile climb with about a mile of downhill sections sprinkled in on Sunday. 28.7 minutes, 276 watts (306 normal watts) at tempo heart rate. I was happy until I found out the top riders did it in about 23 minutes. Tommorrow is my cp20 test.

 
'parasaurolophus said:
This is pretty much exactly my scenario right now. Today is the opening day to register for the disney wine and dine half marathon in November, which is my goal. Running a 5k in MN in a couple weeks and doing a mud run first weekend in June. Was thinking a 10k sometime midsummer and then a 16 week half marathon training schedule from there.
Sounds like a plan! Let us know how the 5K goes.Duck - "25ish miles" and "won't have to worry" don't really belong in the same sentence ...but we understand!

gruecd - way to tough out the intervals!!!

---

Anyone read the breathing article in the new RW? Interesting, if unusual, stuff. Since I use a 3/3 pattern for slower paced runs and 2/2 for fast-paced running, I gave the author's 3/2 inhale/exhale pattern a try this morning ...and it was actually quite comfortable. For fast work, the author recommends a 2/1 pattern. Further, for the end of a short, hard race (while fighting exhaustion from a SandedTM start), he recommends a 2/1/1/1! As to the latter, I've had races where I have to breath every step for a while (1/1/1/1), so the 2/1/1/1 is intriguing. Since oxygen intake is obviously a critical element for successful racing, it makes sense to focus on the breathing. Between focused breathing and HR monitoring, the mind will have little time to drift away into negative thoughts.

 
'2Young2BBald said:
'Ned said:
'beer 302 said:
My trail question of the day, shoes. I typically run in neutral NB 1080's. I have a pair of Stability Asics GT 2000's that have just never gotten along with my feet. They turn my arch into a throbbing soreness of meat when I wear them on the roads. They are like brand new with only about 120 miles on them, would those work on the trails better than the NB? I'll hang up and listen.
I'd never run in the stability shoe if I'm definitely a neutral runner. Keep'm for around the house or whatever.Get yourself a pair of thesefor trails.
+1 for the Casscadias, I have two pair and they are, by far, the most comfortable and supportive shoes I've ever had. AND, at $71, that is a great price. By nature, trail shoes are a stability shoe, not so much with a built up heel like a running shoe, but rather how the entire shoe is constructed to keep down ankle rolls, etc. Actually, just wearing a trail specific shoe may help with the knee issues too.
I also have a pair of Cascadia 7s, and really like them. While I run mostly in Hokas now, I rotate in the Cascadia's at least once a week.
 
---

Anyone read the breathing article in the new RW? Interesting, if unusual, stuff. Since I use a 3/3 pattern for slower paced runs and 2/2 for fast-paced running, I gave the author's 3/2 inhale/exhale pattern a try this morning ...and it was actually quite comfortable. For fast work, the author recommends a 2/1 pattern. Further, for the end of a short, hard race (while fighting exhaustion from a SandedTM start), he recommends a 2/1/1/1! As to the latter, I've had races where I have to breath every step for a while (1/1/1/1), so the 2/1/1/1 is intriguing. Since oxygen intake is obviously a critical element for successful racing, it makes sense to focus on the breathing. Between focused breathing and HR monitoring, the mind will have little time to drift away into negative thoughts.
With the exception of a few times trying to relieve boredom on a treadmill, I never focus on breathing. It's the same with the 180 strides per minute cadence thing. It's hard to change things that become so ingrained. Doesn't one's body naturally figure out this stuff? I could see myself doing more harm than good by forcing certain patterns.
 
With the exception of a few times trying to relieve boredom on a treadmill, I never focus on breathing. It's the same with the 180 strides per minute cadence thing. It's hard to change things that become so ingrained. Doesn't one's body naturally figure out this stuff? I could see myself doing more harm than good by forcing certain patterns.
:goodposting:Ditto.
 
---

Anyone read the breathing article in the new RW? Interesting, if unusual, stuff. Since I use a 3/3 pattern for slower paced runs and 2/2 for fast-paced running, I gave the author's 3/2 inhale/exhale pattern a try this morning ...and it was actually quite comfortable. For fast work, the author recommends a 2/1 pattern. Further, for the end of a short, hard race (while fighting exhaustion from a SandedTM start), he recommends a 2/1/1/1! As to the latter, I've had races where I have to breath every step for a while (1/1/1/1), so the 2/1/1/1 is intriguing. Since oxygen intake is obviously a critical element for successful racing, it makes sense to focus on the breathing. Between focused breathing and HR monitoring, the mind will have little time to drift away into negative thoughts.
With the exception of a few times trying to relieve boredom on a treadmill, I never focus on breathing. It's the same with the 180 strides per minute cadence thing. It's hard to change things that become so ingrained. Doesn't one's body naturally figure out this stuff? I could see myself doing more harm than good by forcing certain patterns.
Agree with Jux. I admittedly haven't read the article but I don't ever focus on breathing unless trying to work out a cramp. For that, I do two short exhales, followed by a long exhale, which forces you to inhale deeply and this is apparently what works the cramp out. I don't know the science behind it, learned it from my HS coach I think 20+ years ago and it works. But then again, I don't do HR stuff either unless I'm on a treadmill and it has a built in HR reader.

 
---

Anyone read the breathing article in the new RW? Interesting, if unusual, stuff. Since I use a 3/3 pattern for slower paced runs and 2/2 for fast-paced running, I gave the author's 3/2 inhale/exhale pattern a try this morning ...and it was actually quite comfortable. For fast work, the author recommends a 2/1 pattern. Further, for the end of a short, hard race (while fighting exhaustion from a SandedTM start), he recommends a 2/1/1/1! As to the latter, I've had races where I have to breath every step for a while (1/1/1/1), so the 2/1/1/1 is intriguing. Since oxygen intake is obviously a critical element for successful racing, it makes sense to focus on the breathing. Between focused breathing and HR monitoring, the mind will have little time to drift away into negative thoughts.
With the exception of a few times trying to relieve boredom on a treadmill, I never focus on breathing. It's the same with the 180 strides per minute cadence thing. It's hard to change things that become so ingrained. Doesn't one's body naturally figure out this stuff? I could see myself doing more harm than good by forcing certain patterns.
Agree with Jux. I admittedly haven't read the article but I don't ever focus on breathing unless trying to work out a cramp. For that, I do two short exhales, followed by a long exhale, which forces you to inhale deeply and this is apparently what works the cramp out. I don't know the science behind it, learned it from my HS coach I think 20+ years ago and it works. But then again, I don't do HR stuff either unless I'm on a treadmill and it has a built in HR reader.
For everyone's eyes except Ned's...
I wear the HR monitor more for the curiosity of it than for training or racing. It's been a long time since I've actually sped up or slowed down because of HR readings.
 
---

Anyone read the breathing article in the new RW? Interesting, if unusual, stuff. Since I use a 3/3 pattern for slower paced runs and 2/2 for fast-paced running, I gave the author's 3/2 inhale/exhale pattern a try this morning ...and it was actually quite comfortable. For fast work, the author recommends a 2/1 pattern. Further, for the end of a short, hard race (while fighting exhaustion from a SandedTM start), he recommends a 2/1/1/1! As to the latter, I've had races where I have to breath every step for a while (1/1/1/1), so the 2/1/1/1 is intriguing. Since oxygen intake is obviously a critical element for successful racing, it makes sense to focus on the breathing. Between focused breathing and HR monitoring, the mind will have little time to drift away into negative thoughts.
With the exception of a few times trying to relieve boredom on a treadmill, I never focus on breathing. It's the same with the 180 strides per minute cadence thing. It's hard to change things that become so ingrained. Doesn't one's body naturally figure out this stuff? I could see myself doing more harm than good by forcing certain patterns.
Agree with Jux. I admittedly haven't read the article but I don't ever focus on breathing unless trying to work out a cramp. For that, I do two short exhales, followed by a long exhale, which forces you to inhale deeply and this is apparently what works the cramp out. I don't know the science behind it, learned it from my HS coach I think 20+ years ago and it works. But then again, I don't do HR stuff either unless I'm on a treadmill and it has a built in HR reader.
For everyone's eyes except Ned's...
I wear the HR monitor more for the curiosity of it than for training or racing. It's been a long time since I've actually sped up or slowed down because of HR readings.
Should have included me in that statement. I may be a bigger hr slave than Ned.
 
---

Anyone read the breathing article in the new RW? Interesting, if unusual, stuff. Since I use a 3/3 pattern for slower paced runs and 2/2 for fast-paced running, I gave the author's 3/2 inhale/exhale pattern a try this morning ...and it was actually quite comfortable. For fast work, the author recommends a 2/1 pattern. Further, for the end of a short, hard race (while fighting exhaustion from a SandedTM start), he recommends a 2/1/1/1! As to the latter, I've had races where I have to breath every step for a while (1/1/1/1), so the 2/1/1/1 is intriguing. Since oxygen intake is obviously a critical element for successful racing, it makes sense to focus on the breathing. Between focused breathing and HR monitoring, the mind will have little time to drift away into negative thoughts.
With the exception of a few times trying to relieve boredom on a treadmill, I never focus on breathing. It's the same with the 180 strides per minute cadence thing. It's hard to change things that become so ingrained. Doesn't one's body naturally figure out this stuff? I could see myself doing more harm than good by forcing certain patterns.
Agree with Jux. I admittedly haven't read the article but I don't ever focus on breathing unless trying to work out a cramp. For that, I do two short exhales, followed by a long exhale, which forces you to inhale deeply and this is apparently what works the cramp out. I don't know the science behind it, learned it from my HS coach I think 20+ years ago and it works. But then again, I don't do HR stuff either unless I'm on a treadmill and it has a built in HR reader.
For everyone's eyes except Ned's...
I wear the HR monitor more for the curiosity of it than for training or racing. It's been a long time since I've actually sped up or slowed down because of HR readings.
Should have included me in that statement. I may be a bigger hr slave than Ned.Doh! Sincerest apologies.
 
---

Anyone read the breathing article in the new RW? Interesting, if unusual, stuff. Since I use a 3/3 pattern for slower paced runs and 2/2 for fast-paced running, I gave the author's 3/2 inhale/exhale pattern a try this morning ...and it was actually quite comfortable. For fast work, the author recommends a 2/1 pattern. Further, for the end of a short, hard race (while fighting exhaustion from a SandedTM start), he recommends a 2/1/1/1! As to the latter, I've had races where I have to breath every step for a while (1/1/1/1), so the 2/1/1/1 is intriguing. Since oxygen intake is obviously a critical element for successful racing, it makes sense to focus on the breathing. Between focused breathing and HR monitoring, the mind will have little time to drift away into negative thoughts.
With the exception of a few times trying to relieve boredom on a treadmill, I never focus on breathing. It's the same with the 180 strides per minute cadence thing. It's hard to change things that become so ingrained. Doesn't one's body naturally figure out this stuff? I could see myself doing more harm than good by forcing certain patterns.
Agree with Jux. I admittedly haven't read the article but I don't ever focus on breathing unless trying to work out a cramp. For that, I do two short exhales, followed by a long exhale, which forces you to inhale deeply and this is apparently what works the cramp out. I don't know the science behind it, learned it from my HS coach I think 20+ years ago and it works. But then again, I don't do HR stuff either unless I'm on a treadmill and it has a built in HR reader.
For everyone's eyes except Ned's...
I wear the HR monitor more for the curiosity of it than for training or racing. It's been a long time since I've actually sped up or slowed down because of HR readings.
Should have included me in that statement. I may be a bigger hr slave than Ned. :wub: :finger: jux

 
'BassNBrew said:
Sand - 6.2 mile climb with about a mile of downhill sections sprinkled in on Sunday. 28.7 minutes, 276 watts (306 normal watts) at tempo heart rate. I was happy until I found out the top riders did it in about 23 minutes. Tommorrow is my cp20 test.
Awesome - my PR wattage at that length is right at what you did. About 3W/kg at tempo pace? Beastly, dude.All I did today was a 7 mile run at lunch. Weather was absolutely incredibly super duper awesome - 48, pure sun, nice breeze. I need to imprint this one in my head to remember for 3 months from now.
 
Surgeon confirmed inguinal hernia.

Scheduling the surgery soon and likely out for the Country Music half.

Not too down about. Want to get it over with and get back going again.

 
Surgeon confirmed inguinal hernia.Scheduling the surgery soon and likely out for the Country Music half.Not too down about. Want to get it over with and get back going again.
I had one of these. Recovery was quick. I feel the mesh every so often but it is unusual. Hope your doc does a laproscopy. Small incisions, quick recovery. You'd be running in 2 weeks. Would be sooner but one or both of your #### is going to be pummeled by drainage and swell. Hurts like hell. But don't worry, it goes away.Haven't run in months because of my knee. Torn Meniscus(sp?). Healed a long time ago but poorly. I need to get back on the horse.Test Ease is filtered. Come on!
 
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