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Ran a 10k in June (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter GStrot
- Start date
Ned
Footballguy
Yup, very nicely. Let me guess, you kept going up in size until you found one both you and your wife could fit into?
Sammy3469
Footballguy
It depends what your goals are. For any bike racer, I'd say its almost a necessity these days for training. It changes the way you train, keeps you honest, and lets you push yourself when needed. You will also learn to "love" interval training.
I'll let Sand and Bass chime in in how important it is for triathletes.
As I recall, you've got some loft tri goals this year. Honestly if you're not in a super windy area and can map out some routes to ride after ride you can train based on speed and heart rate. You can then use hr during your event to keep yourself in check.
koby925
Footballguy
First HR data on a speed/tempo workout from yesterday. The goal was a 3 mile tempo around 6 minute pace like last week's treadmill tempo. This time outside. For reasons I'll document below it turned into 2 x 1.25 miles with 1/2 run rest in between. Felt kind of lousy warming up and my HR was already into mid 130s on the warmup.
Interval 1 - Flat for .8 or so and a gradual uphill from .8 - 1.25. My pacing was sort of all over in the beginning as I tried to find a 6 min pace rhythm. HR was steadily between 151-154 in the first .8 and worked up to 156-157 on the gradual uphill. Which probably doesn't sound high to a lot of you or even me, but my breathing and legs were feeling worse than my HR readings. Maintaining 6 min pace on the gradual uphill proved too tough so I started bargaining with myself to make it a mile or 1.25. Hung on for 1.25 in 7:32 so about 6:01 pace.
Half mile run recovery in 8-8:15 pace
Interval 2 - Fairly flat or even slight downgrade most of the 1.25 miles. HR was steadily between 150-153 throughout. Again pacing was kind of all over the place in the beginning but the final product was 7:29 so pretty much exactly 6 min pace
Takeaway - My HR readings were between 150-154 most of the way but hit 156-157 on the high end. I feel like I SHOULD be able to maintain the pace with this HR for the full 3 mile tempo, especially considering I did it on a treadmill a week ago, but don't know why I couldn't...either treadmill is easier with the built in pacing and belt helping, I felt lousy, a mental block running outside, bad pacing, my legs aren't keeping up with my fitness level or a combination of these
Interval 1 - Flat for .8 or so and a gradual uphill from .8 - 1.25. My pacing was sort of all over in the beginning as I tried to find a 6 min pace rhythm. HR was steadily between 151-154 in the first .8 and worked up to 156-157 on the gradual uphill. Which probably doesn't sound high to a lot of you or even me, but my breathing and legs were feeling worse than my HR readings. Maintaining 6 min pace on the gradual uphill proved too tough so I started bargaining with myself to make it a mile or 1.25. Hung on for 1.25 in 7:32 so about 6:01 pace.
Half mile run recovery in 8-8:15 pace
Interval 2 - Fairly flat or even slight downgrade most of the 1.25 miles. HR was steadily between 150-153 throughout. Again pacing was kind of all over the place in the beginning but the final product was 7:29 so pretty much exactly 6 min pace
Takeaway - My HR readings were between 150-154 most of the way but hit 156-157 on the high end. I feel like I SHOULD be able to maintain the pace with this HR for the full 3 mile tempo, especially considering I did it on a treadmill a week ago, but don't know why I couldn't...either treadmill is easier with the built in pacing and belt helping, I felt lousy, a mental block running outside, bad pacing, my legs aren't keeping up with my fitness level or a combination of these
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Koby- I'm still interested in your max. IIRC, I think Ned predicted it would be in the 170s. I was surprised by that prediction since it's so low, but it's looking that way if you are only in the 150s for a hard tempo run. If I ran that run (that effort, I mean, I'm slower), I'd probably be in the high 160s I my max is a little over 180. Where does McMillian (on his online calculator) have your vLT based on race time?
koby925
Footballguy
Jux, thanks. Yeah I have to test max still I guess. Thoughts on how to test it? Do I do a fairly max effort 800m or something?
I put 18 mins in for a 5k. I may be able to go a little faster now but who knows...I think that's about what I have in me now. That vLT is 6:14. If I use my OM 5k PR of 17:22, that vLT is 6:01....so what do I do with that info?
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
People differ but I never get near my max on shorter runs and intervals. I think the only times I've been over 180 is near the end of racing 5ks.koby925 said:
I was curious about how your vLT compared to that 6:00 pace. One of my standard treadmill runs I've been doing is, after warm-up, a 4 to 5 mile tempo run at vLT. Mine is about 6:30. I'm trying to do one of these each week and see where it takes me by spring.
worrierking
Footballguy
Koby, those are some impressive numbers. I wouldn't worry about the way you felt. Just one of those days.
Get your max by racing a 5k. You will probably be a few beats off the actual max, but it will be close enough.
I am in full taper madness for Houston Sunday. Still have a sore adductor and it looks like I'll just have to run it with the discomfort.
Bad news is that I've gained about 4 pounds since my October marathon. Just holiday gluttony. I'm still a little pissed at myself for letting it happen. I was not even aware of it.
Weather looks nice at the start, but too warm by the time I drag my sorry carcass across the line. 47 for the morning low, then 70 for the high. It'll be well into the 60s by the time I finish and that frequently results in a slowdown or cramping or both. I am still planning to attempt the PR, but I won't be setting any records.
Get your max by racing a 5k. You will probably be a few beats off the actual max, but it will be close enough.
I am in full taper madness for Houston Sunday. Still have a sore adductor and it looks like I'll just have to run it with the discomfort.
Bad news is that I've gained about 4 pounds since my October marathon. Just holiday gluttony. I'm still a little pissed at myself for letting it happen. I was not even aware of it.
Weather looks nice at the start, but too warm by the time I drag my sorry carcass across the line. 47 for the morning low, then 70 for the high. It'll be well into the 60s by the time I finish and that frequently results in a slowdown or cramping or both. I am still planning to attempt the PR, but I won't be setting any records.
I wouldn't read too much into the weight gain, my own weight fluctuates by 3-4 pounds day-to-day depending on how well hydrated I am and what I ate the day before. You also tend to be a little heavy race week due to the taper (less miles = less sweating, and more glycogen/water stored by your body for the race).
gruecd
Footballguy
You and me both, my friend. Good luck this weekend.I'm going to see a sports medicine doc this afternoon. My PT still thinks my groin pain is muscular (tight adductor muscles, especially the pectineus), but I just want to rule out a sports hernia or anything like that. Beyond frustrated.
Also, I think I've decided against running hard at Boston. One drawback to gaining entry through John Hancock is that I have to start way in back in the 4th wave. According to a recent podcast with the race director, that means that I probably won't start until almost 11:30 AM. The crowding back there, the likely heat, and the nutritional challenges of such a late start would be enough on their own, but then add the fact that I'm still not healthy with less than 14 weeks to go, and I think I'm just better off running Boston for fun and then racing a marathon a little later. Kinda leaning towards Grandma's Marathon in Duluth on June 21. Even if I wanted to do an 18-week program, I wouldn't have to start until February 17, which gives me another month to build base and get healthy. Thoughts???
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If you start at the front of wave 4 I don't think you'll catch up to the next wave (they start 20 min before you?) til maybe mile 8-10 at the earliest? At that point the field should be spread out enough for you to run relatively un-impeded for the rest of the race. It won't be like regular road races where clueless walkers are walking 4-6 abreast and blocking the road, this is Boston after all.
With that said, the weather could be a concern. Although I don't think 1.5 hour difference in starts can make that much difference.
I also had the idea for some reason that even charity runners get seeded by time, so you should still be in wave 1 no? Or am I off base on that?
Regarding plan B, Grandma's is an awesome race, don't think I want to do 4 fulls this year, and they're not hosting the USA champs this year, but I might go back and do the half for a redemption of sorts.
With that said, the weather could be a concern. Although I don't think 1.5 hour difference in starts can make that much difference.
I also had the idea for some reason that even charity runners get seeded by time, so you should still be in wave 1 no? Or am I off base on that?
Regarding plan B, Grandma's is an awesome race, don't think I want to do 4 fulls this year, and they're not hosting the USA champs this year, but I might go back and do the half for a redemption of sorts.
worrierking
Footballguy
My issue is either the pectineus or adductor brevis. I tweaked it about 10 days ago when I tried to jump over a puddle and landed awkwardly. Baryshnikov I am not! I could already feel a little tightness and I should have been stretching it. My awkward landing gave it a pretty good tug.
I've had problems with this before and my PT suggested it could be related to a disk bulge (which I have periodic issues with). You should have that looked at too as well as the Sports Hernia. Pain from the disc can radiate down into the hip and create an imbalance that makes the muscles tight. I am working on both angles to try to get this thing feeling better before the race.
Here's hoping you don't have a sports hernia. Those things are tough to get rid of, even with the newer surgical methods. Good luck.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Hopefully this won't come across as mean-spirited because it's certainly not intended that way.
It seems like you've been almost constantly injured for over a year now and it has impacted all your recent races. Do you have a training plan for Grandma's that somehow different than what you've been doing? I'm concerned that you'll keep on having injuries when you ramp up your miles. Perhaps you need to figure out a routine that keeps you healthy and slowly build from there. I'm not sure that a "for fun" marathon fits with that. Just a thought, I might be off base.
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gruecd
Footballguy
The only way a charity/sponsor runner can get seeded is if they also happen to have a qualifying time, which I don't for this particular race.
gruecd
Footballguy
Well, there's no way in hell I'm not running at Boston, so I don't see a lot of other options.
Honestly, once I get this thing settled down, I think I'll be fine. I've gotten better with the yoga and hip/glute exercises, and I'm gonna add in some strength training, too. I think that will help me stay healthy. But like I said, I need to get this current situation resolved first.
Ned
Footballguy
Unless you're an amazing self motivator and able to give every last drop on a training run, I agree with worrier that racing a 5K will get you pretty damn close (and be the most efficient way to get there). You'll hit at or very close to your max hr at the end of a 5K race when you're on the last 0.1-0.2 final sprint. You should feel like you want to curl up and die in a pile of your own vomit.koby925 said:
Using my WAG of 173 mHR, that puts you into the range of 147-156 for LT. LT being roughly your 15K-HM pacing. That sounds pretty close...
Recovery = <130
LSD = 130-139
General Aerobic = 140-146
LT/tempo = 147-156
VO2max/intervals = 157+
Sand
Footballguy
Um, yea, I'm not answering that.Yup, very nicely. Let me guess, you kept going up in size until you found one both you and your wife could fit into?
Campy stuff, huh? That takes Stages and P2M out. I'd try to find a used wireless PT already in a good wheel. As far as useful, it is a tool and can be a great tool in your training. All in how you use it.
Personally since I am an engineer I just geek out on all the numbers. It is a great toy - love looking at the numbers after and watching my power curve grow, etc. I'm not the best spokesman for them.
I have a P2M on my Cervelo S5 (came with Rotor cranks, so a perfect drop in) and it is likely the best of the crop out there. Self-calibrating, light, out of the way, easy to service, etc. It is a great tool. I also have a powertap on the TT bike. It works well, though the wheel is heavy. The later versions are lighter and they represent a good deal. Quark, Vector, SRM, etc. are expensive for what you get.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
What's WAG?
Sand
Footballguy
I think if there is anything we've learned it is for you not to try and anticipate the weather you will race in.
Sand
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Ned
Footballguy
I thought it was something technical.
Yes, Wild ### guess. Sorry, we use this all the time at work.
Sand
Footballguy
So do we. It is a technical term.
That's weird, I could've sworn wilked and workhorse started in the 2nd wave and I thought one of them had a charity entry, but I am also sure if I were in your shoes I would have done everything in my power to get moved into a higher corral. (even if it's seeded based on your Boston time last year) so I guess you're right. I still don't think you'll have as much traffic as you think if you are in shape.
koby925
Footballguy
Thanks. So I was about at those HRs...maybe slightly fast. So I should've been able to hold it for a tempo rather than cut it short. I felt more gassed and leg tired than those HRs let on though. Guess it was a bad day or I have to toughen up.Unless you're an amazing self motivator and able to give every last drop on a training run, I agree with worrier that racing a 5K will get you pretty damn close (and be the most efficient way to get there). You'll hit at or very close to your max hr at the end of a 5K race when you're on the last 0.1-0.2 final sprint. You should feel like you want to curl up and die in a pile of your own vomit.koby925 said:
Using my WAG of 173 mHR, that puts you into the range of 147-156 for LT. LT being roughly your 15K-HM pacing. That sounds pretty close...
Recovery = <130
LSD = 130-139
General Aerobic = 140-146
LT/tempo = 147-156
VO2max/intervals = 157+
gruecd
Footballguy
Once my name shows up in the list of official entrants (apparently it takes a while for them to process all the invitational entries), I'm going to email the BAA and see if they can do this, but I highly doubt it. Pretty positive that the only way you get seeded is if you have a valid qualifying time.
Ned
Footballguy
I've had plenty of those days where my legs just couldn't stay with my cardio (HR) on tempo runs. I've also had days where my HR is sky high but it feels like I'm crawling. It sucks, but they're all things your body is trying to tell you...Thanks. So I was about at those HRs...maybe slightly fast. So I should've been able to hold it for a tempo rather than cut it short. I felt more gassed and leg tired than those HRs let on though. Guess it was a bad day or I have to toughen up.Unless you're an amazing self motivator and able to give every last drop on a training run, I agree with worrier that racing a 5K will get you pretty damn close (and be the most efficient way to get there). You'll hit at or very close to your max hr at the end of a 5K race when you're on the last 0.1-0.2 final sprint. You should feel like you want to curl up and die in a pile of your own vomit.koby925 said:
Using my WAG of 173 mHR, that puts you into the range of 147-156 for LT. LT being roughly your 15K-HM pacing. That sounds pretty close...
Recovery = <130
LSD = 130-139
General Aerobic = 140-146
LT/tempo = 147-156
VO2max/intervals = 157+
Don't get too hung up on it just yet... They could be close, but they could be a bit off too. Get that mHR and we'll have a much better idea. That said, I'd bet some $ this is going to be darn close.
Yeah I looked through the thread and saw that they had bib numbers in the 23-24,000s, so maybe they were just seeded in the charity corrals based on their times. I could've sworn a friend of a friend started in wave 2 last year though (and he's fairly young, so no way should he be in that wave if he actually qualified since the cutoff for wave 1 was 3:14-3:15). Best of luck with BAA, hope they're in a good the next couple of weeks cuz I am running a marathon the day after their deadline for submitting an improved time so I am hoping they'll give some leeway there as well.
Maybe they will some common sense if you refer them to some of your prior finishes at Boston.
My thoughts...
1. Running an event for fun isn't in my vocab unless I'm going to pace someone else. given the fact that you pulled the plug on an event or two last fall, I'm surprised you're giving this consideration.
2. Maybe 11:30 is a better start time for your body clock.
3. Is the weather in Duluth in mid-summer going to be any better? if that doesn't pan out then you're looking at the fall and having spent 3/4 of the year racking up training miles.
4. cross training is you friend.
you get a kick out of this. caps key was working intermittently. called hp support and their tech as part of the troubleshooting steps tells me to pick up the keyboard and drop it. they said sometimes the keys stick and this frees them. bang...now neither key works at all.
Ned
Footballguy
From what I've heard the weather is usually pretty decent. The races start early so it's still cool, and you get drizzling rain. It's point-to-point (and net downhill) like Boston but the climbs are even milder than the Newton Hills. If there's a wind it tends to be a tailwind too.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
gruecd - I understand your logic about not trying to push the pace at Boston, though like BnB, I just can't run races without competing. I think you'd have a hard time running a desirable time at Boston. Your training has been sub-par, you'll be starting in Wave 4 (and unless you get way up front, the road fills up fast is seems), the day's logistics will be a mess (6 a.m. bus for a 11:30 a.m. race), and it's Boston, which often means an extra .1 or .2 miles just because it's hard to run tangents. Beyond all that, though, this race will be different due to the emotional carryover from last year. I think you'll be well-served to run it steady and to soak in the surroundings - take good note of the crowds, the signs, your fellow racers. Make it a day to remember.
FUBAR
Footballguy
That's pretty much what I'm thinking. I hadn't looked at PMs before and now seeing the cost, this will wait.
Lofty? just a half in June, IM in August - goals are to finish, not break records. Then the 2nd leg of a relay at the end of October, where speed will be important.
FUBAR
Footballguy
were I to run Boston this year, I might not even have my watch on.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Scientific Wild-### Guess, or SWAG, is American slang meaning a rough estimate made by an expert in the field, based on experience and intuition. It is similar to the slang word guesstimate, a portmanteau of guess and estimate.[1]So do we. It is a technical term.
The slang term "SWAG" is generally thought to have originated in the US military, either the Army[2] or the Air Force.[3] Journalist Melvin J. Lasky wrote that it was first used casually by US Army General William Westmoreland during the Vietnam War. Westmoreland would sometimes reply "SWAG" to reporters' questions about American failure to neutralize the enemy.[1]Westmoreland's use of the term was affirmed in court by Colonel John Frank Stewart in November 1984 during witness testimony for the lawsuit initiated by Westmoreland against CBS for their TV documentary The Uncounted Enemy: A Vietnam Deception. On the witness stand, Stewart explained that in Vietnam, the military intelligence branch that he commanded would deliver numbers of enemy strength to Westmoreland, the numbers derived from "the SWAG principle".[4] There was laughter in the court when Stewart explained what was meant by the acronym SWAG.[4]
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Wishing for the 25%, Grue. :fingerscrossed:
Ned
Footballguy
gruecd
Footballguy
Done mostly arthroscopically now, but still taking a few weeks on crutches and a few months before real return to activity.
Honestly, the more I think about it, unless the MRI shows a labral tear or something that needs to be fixed, I might seriously consider just doing a lot less running, really learning to swim (gasp), and going that route. It's honestly less about competing and more about fitness for me at this point in my life anyway.
The whole concept of surgery like that (and a relatively new one), with the cost, recovery time, impact on work and everyday life just doesn't seem worth it to me...
FUBAR
Footballguy
Obviously hoping for the best. Though there are worse things than learning how to swimDone mostly arthroscopically now, but still taking a few weeks on crutches and a few months before real return to activity.Honestly, the more I think about it, unless the MRI shows a labral tear or something that needs to be fixed, I might seriously consider just doing a lot less running, really learning to swim (gasp), and going that route. It's honestly less about competing and more about fitness for me at this point in my life anyway.
The whole concept of surgery like that (and a relatively new one), with the cost, recovery time, impact on work and everyday life just doesn't seem worth it to me...
Sand
Footballguy
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