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Ran a 10k in June (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter GStrot
- Start date
beer 302
Footballguy
lol @ 156, you're a stud dude.
Cool site, any takes from those who have run it?
http://runnersconnect.net/boston-marathon-coach/pace-calculator/
Sorry I haven't been around a lot the past couple of weeks, but a very belated welcome to the new guy!
I am trying to get caught up on the posts, but after scanning the last few pages it seems like this is the most appropriate advice given Ghostguy's background. You'll probably see a decent amount of improvement from just running consistent mileage with some intervals/tempos/fartleks sprinkled in there. Be careful not to overdo your fast days as at this stage in your development one of the biggest dangers is overdoing those days just a little bit and not feeling like running the next day because of soreness. (then your schedule gets some unplanned day(s) off thrown in and you gotta figure out how to get back on track)
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Don't know about this one, but I have a multi-tab spreadsheet for Boston that gruecd sent me in 2011. It's incredibly detailed ...drop in a desired pace, mid-race pacing (Sand start? fast finish?), and it spits out all the splits. It even drops the mile pacing into a printable wrist-band. IMO, Boston has four challenges: 1) the early miles slope downhill, and it's easy to burn through them too quickly; 2) the hill sequence from miles 16-20 is at a difficult point in the race, although the hills themselves are not that big; 3) because of the great crowds (Wellesley girls, Boston College rowdies), the HR runs higher than it otherwise might; and 4) because of the size of the field, it's hard to run tangents (except for Steve), so the race distance becomes more than 26.2.
MAC_32
Footballguy
If you want to increase your miles have you considered not doing a 5K every Saturday?
It's difficult (impossible?) to accomplish both goals at the same time. At least if you intend to maximize your 5K time and race every 5K you sign up for.
If you want to increase your miles and maximize your 5K performance I'd only do a 5K every 3 weeks or so.
MAC_32
Footballguy
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Yeah, you really can't cut the corners. But it's Boston - it's an incredible experience (and honor) to be there. The PR can come somewhere else.
The wristbands are a bit of overkill, but then again, people post pictures of what they're going to wear at Boston ...and other people respond. It can get a little over-the-top.
I really look forward to hearing what you and the others have to say about the whole experience this year. I expect it will be a very emotional experience that transcends running and racing.
Ned
Footballguy
Feeling a bit of momentum building with my running these past few days. Been quite a while since I've felt like this!
Was pressed for time yesterday, so did a quick 5mi progression run. Kind of a cheap speed workout, but its something.... Warmed up for a mile, then picked up the effort with each consecutive mile. The last 3 miles went 7:08/171, 7:08/178 (wind), 6:33/186. Its been a loooong time since I've pressed it like that at the end. The last mile was also in a torrential downpour :X
Did an 8mi MLR for lunch today @ 9:04/147. Very windy today..... HR is showing signs of improving. I was able to keep'er steady going into the wind without my HR getting out of control.
Was pressed for time yesterday, so did a quick 5mi progression run. Kind of a cheap speed workout, but its something.... Warmed up for a mile, then picked up the effort with each consecutive mile. The last 3 miles went 7:08/171, 7:08/178 (wind), 6:33/186. Its been a loooong time since I've pressed it like that at the end. The last mile was also in a torrential downpour :X
Did an 8mi MLR for lunch today @ 9:04/147. Very windy today..... HR is showing signs of improving. I was able to keep'er steady going into the wind without my HR getting out of control.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I think I'm looking for some confirmation bias here.
My training is going better, but I am just fatigued this week. I went after it real hard last week, 7 days straight, took Monday off, then had a very good run yesterday, but just don't have it today. Supposed to be on the track, but it won't be close to what I want.
When you guys are in this spot in your training do you listen to your body? or go by what your plan says? My # of days off the week will not be impacted as I am now going to exercise Easter morning (ugh), but..2 days off out of 3? Someone tell me I'm doing the right thing...or the wrong thing and I'll force myself to do a run after the kids go to bed tonight.
TIA
My training is going better, but I am just fatigued this week. I went after it real hard last week, 7 days straight, took Monday off, then had a very good run yesterday, but just don't have it today. Supposed to be on the track, but it won't be close to what I want.
When you guys are in this spot in your training do you listen to your body? or go by what your plan says? My # of days off the week will not be impacted as I am now going to exercise Easter morning (ugh), but..2 days off out of 3? Someone tell me I'm doing the right thing...or the wrong thing and I'll force myself to do a run after the kids go to bed tonight.
TIA
FUBAR
Footballguy
3 weeks out from Goal marathon, so starting the taper.
Today's run is brought to you by the letter M and http://running.competitor.com/2013/10/training/the-three-most-common-tapering-mistakes_58795/2
Then dropped a load and 40 seconds per mile
Second 4 - 28:52 (7:26, 7:19, 7:12, 6:55)
Today's run is brought to you by the letter M and http://running.competitor.com/2013/10/training/the-three-most-common-tapering-mistakes_58795/2
First 4 - 31:30
Then dropped a load and 40 seconds per mile
Second 4 - 28:52 (7:26, 7:19, 7:12, 6:55)
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I enjoy the 5ks, so will try to do those once a week as long as their are events in the area that I want to do. We go, run, get breakfast after usually at the local brewery, hang out, and it has kind of turned into a "thing" for a few months from may-september.MAC_32 said:
I think the enjoyment I get from it (really looking forward to the 5ks is the only thing keeping me motivated to run) is worth a slightly less longterm gain. I am never winning anything, so...........
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FUBAR
Footballguy
Your body is telling you to rest.
Listen to it.
The answer might be different if you were a couch potato, but the one thing most of us here can do to improve our training is rest more. (Hi pot, this is the kettle - "you're black!")
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
There's absolutely no point in dragging your ### through a track workout that you just aren't rested enough to do. If we were talking about something that you would do at a relaxed pace it would be different, but I'd definitely just take the day off here and hit the track later.
Sand
Footballguy
Actually, you should have done enough training (if it's your first one) or past races to know the right effort level and run based off of that instead of going to hard early to to hit your times on a day where conditions might not be optimal. Someone recently asked me if I use those wrist/pace bands and I replied with "Oh those things are magical! I didn't know fast I had to run to hit my goal times until someone did the math for me" (and the person knows I am an actuary)Of course they aren't. Real runners memorize those times and have no need for the wristbands...tri-man 47 said:
FUBAR
Footballguy
GI distress sucks. even in training runs.Probably shouldn't have had the tuna steak for lunch.
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FUBAR
Footballguy
Even us mortals IMO, shouldn't use those. These races are stressful enough without your wrist yelling at you.Actually, you should have done enough training (if it's your first one) or past races to know the right effort level and run based off of that instead of going to hard early to to hit your times on a day where conditions might not be optimal. Someone recently asked me if I use those wrist/pace bands and I replied with "Oh those things are magical! I didn't know fast I had to run to hit my goal times until someone did the math for me" (and the person knows I am an actuary)Of course they aren't. Real runners memorize those times and have no need for the wristbands...tri-man 47 said:
MAC_32
Footballguy
if thats the case then nevermind. Continuing to exercise is ultimately more important.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
From October to April I can do workouts with nothing but long term intentions.....I will certainly get input on that when the time comes based on how I am running in September.
Ned
Footballguy
I find myself agreeing with everything you post these days. 
7 days straight is tough on most normal folks. If your legs are torched, take a break. The risk of injury far outweighs the small gains you'll see from forcing yourself through a speed workout.
Ned
Footballguy
A-friggin-men.Actually, you should have done enough training (if it's your first one) or past races to know the right effort level and run based off of that instead of going to hard early to to hit your times on a day where conditions might not be optimal. Someone recently asked me if I use those wrist/pace bands and I replied with "Oh those things are magical! I didn't know fast I had to run to hit my goal times until someone did the math for me" (and the person knows I am an actuary)Of course they aren't. Real runners memorize those times and have no need for the wristbands...tri-man 47 said:
Ned
Footballguy
There's no better way to get relaxed before a workout....
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Well, did the slow 5 monday, did the intervals yesterday, did another slow 5 today...................can definitely feel it.
Plan to do a "tempo" 5k tomorrow with maybe a half mile warmup and mile cool down.
Might not even be able to run friday due to work, then 5k saturday morning.
Still gonna slap a baby if I cant get 27 or better
Plan to do a "tempo" 5k tomorrow with maybe a half mile warmup and mile cool down.
Might not even be able to run friday due to work, then 5k saturday morning.
Still gonna slap a baby if I cant get 27 or better
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Wait...we're telling you to do a Thursday tempo run before a Saturday race??Edit: 5 miles is the longest you've run in several years, right? Shut it down until the race and rest up.
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ghostguy123
Footballguy
Hell nah. I won't be very sorry after a 3 miler at close to race pace, and a day off is plenty for me.
But in the future, which day would be best for a tempo run if I do a race on a saturday?
I am going to run tomorrow cause I dont want to take two days off, do a 5k, then take another day off sunday.
And remember, I am not running these at 100% balls out pace. I can't do that kinda thing for 25 minutes. These kind of serve as tempo runs because I have no idea what my pace should be yet for races. Figuring that out as we go.
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Ned
Footballguy
Totally agreed. Dude is heading for a brick wall.
Sand
Footballguy
Well first note I changed myself up and advocated an easy run.
Second, for GG - pretty much nothing you do 10 days or sooner before a run is cooked in. If you want to do a hard run before the weekend pick early in the week - Tuesday, Wed. Gives enough time to fully recover.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Sounds like a good idea. A good idea that I will surely start next week.
I still may not do a tempo run tomorrow and just do an easy 4 or something, taking friday off.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
GG, we can give you good advice, but it is up to you to take it. It's quite clear you have a lot to learn about running.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I am aware..................but really I don't think not being able to run my peak time this saturday really matters.
And beginning just next week, I will certainly follow a better pattern heading into a 5k. I simply do not want to take 3 out of 4 days off just to do a 5k every week.
ChiefD
Footballguy
I can speak from experience that these guys here know what they are talking about. I didn't know squat before I found this thread, and I now know maybe 20% of what I REALLY need to know. One thing I have learned however, is that a day or two of rest can actually help you run faster.
If you want to run your balls out, go for it. But it's never too early to just relax. And you may be shocked at how well you would run this week.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Probably the best piece of advice I have heard is "listen to your body".
If I don't feel fresh tomorrow then I am not going to go hard, instead will do an easy 3 or 4. Take friday off, then run the 5k saturday.
I know how important rest is in the short term. If this was THE race where I am trying to PR, then yeah, I would take a couple days off before the race. But that won't come till September.
This upcoming 5k for me is nothing special for me, at all. It's more of a glorified tempo run for me. I just want to make sure I hit 27 of below, and I should.
The most important thing for me running-wise is doing these 5ks. They are the reason why I am running in the first place. If I didnt do them, I would probably lose all interest in running. I know myself. The 5ks are the carrot on the stick for me so to speak. Thats doesn tmean I need to PR each time I run one though.
Prince Myshkin
Footballguy
I think what you are missing though is how important rest is in the long term. When they say 'hit a wall', they aren't just talking about missing your PR or goal time by a few seconds. They are talking injury...
ETA: and while I am a complete novice, i would think that if you are doing a 5k every weekend (and using them as a 'glorified tempo run') then that should probably serve as your speed workout for the week and pretty much everything else you do should be slow.
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Prince Myshkin
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Right, but they also said listen to your body.
When I said I hit a brick wall every time I run, that was just a bit of a joke. Ya know, a slow guy joke.
And yes I agree, the 5k should serve as my "speed" workout for the week. And unless I feel totally fresh tomorrow, I will likely just run a slower 4. In fact, I probably end up doing a slower 4 anyway and then do what I need to do to hit 27 saturday.
Sand
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
northern exposure
Footballguy
I have only dropped in here occasionally, but I was thinking this would be the best spot to get feedback.
I saw back in late February compression calf sleeves were being discussed, but I wonder if anybody has experience with patella straps?
I have been running for quite a few years and (knock on wood) have been almost injury free. I'm running 3-4 times/ week and my mileage is about 18-22 miles/week. Lately I am experiencing soreness below by kneecap on my right knee. It hurts to go up and down stairs and I limp a bit the day after I run. My massage therapist suggested I try a patella strap and also really work on lengthening my quads because they tend to get quite tight (even though I stretch after every run).
Does anybody have any thoughts to share on patella straps? TIA.
I saw back in late February compression calf sleeves were being discussed, but I wonder if anybody has experience with patella straps?
I have been running for quite a few years and (knock on wood) have been almost injury free. I'm running 3-4 times/ week and my mileage is about 18-22 miles/week. Lately I am experiencing soreness below by kneecap on my right knee. It hurts to go up and down stairs and I limp a bit the day after I run. My massage therapist suggested I try a patella strap and also really work on lengthening my quads because they tend to get quite tight (even though I stretch after every run).
Does anybody have any thoughts to share on patella straps? TIA.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Ghost - don't worry buddy, I got your back. You like to run the 5Ks on the weekend, and you want to improve, so you're trying to build more miles and add more focused training while also running a 'hard tempo' run each weekend. "Race your way into shape" is valid, and in effect, that's what you're doing. As I understand it, you aren't looking to taper down to max out any particular race. So if the training effects the 5K to some degree, you're OK with it. Right?
Perhaps the only thing I'd add is the advice I've read on a few occasions of having just two breakthrough sessions per week. So if the 5K counts as one, you should be careful not to overload the rest of the week. Maybe make Tuesday or Wednesday another hard day (intervals, or more tempo work), and use the other days for recovery and slow distance runs. You could add in a third day of strong effort, but don't push your limits with it. Keep at it, and you'll find the right balance ...and you'll definitely improve!
Perhaps the only thing I'd add is the advice I've read on a few occasions of having just two breakthrough sessions per week. So if the 5K counts as one, you should be careful not to overload the rest of the week. Maybe make Tuesday or Wednesday another hard day (intervals, or more tempo work), and use the other days for recovery and slow distance runs. You could add in a third day of strong effort, but don't push your limits with it. Keep at it, and you'll find the right balance ...and you'll definitely improve!
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I would agree if he had a little better base. He had only been running 10 miles a week before this week and these 5 miles runs are the longest he's run since high school IIRC. I think these 5 milers are "breakthroughs" too.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Yes I am definitely ok with this NOW.
There are maybe 3-4 races from now until summer that I actually care about trying to run a good time. They are my "majors", lol.
They are races I know I am going to run every year, so I can easily use them as a barometer for success. When these races come up, my training that week will be different. Instead of my normal stuff I will probably just jog a slow mile on both thursday and friday just to keep my legs moving a little leading up to the race, and in the early part of the week probably a few slow 4-5 milers monday-wednesday, with wednesday probbaly being a slower 3 miler.
But you are right, my time for this coming race really doesnt matter much, except I want to break 27, mostly because I have no excuse not to based on how I have been running.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Well, I was running 15-20 all last year up until october, then 10-15 all winter up until now, and have been at about 15 for a few weeks now (14 this week monday-wed so far).
I agree my base is not the best as of right now, mainly because I am still in the process of shedding some pounds. Work in progress.
But I feel pretty good. Definitely good enough to get some miles in tomorrow and then take a rest day before the 5k.
5 mile runs left me crippled due to knee pain 3-4 years ago. Strapped on the straps and I can tolerate the pain on 40-100 mile runs at 220 lbs. I highly recommend them for petella issues.
northern exposure
Footballguy
Thank you for your feedback. I've been doing a bit of online research, do you just use something like this: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Medline-Patella-Strap-1ct/16608855It sounds like they have worked very well for you, do you know what brand you bought and the approximate cost? I have seen the Cho Pat brand advertised in the back pages of Runner's World, but I was hoping to buy something locally.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
They are usually 20 bucks a pop. Some of the ones I do in the middle of he summer are only a few bucks. I maybe drop 60-80 bucks a month for about a 5 month stretch. Not so bad.
Most for a good cause. Plus I get a t-shirt, woohoo.
FUBAR
Footballguy
basically beer money. Not a bad way to spend a few bucks and get a shirt.
The key here for GG is the 5k "races" are just quasi-speed work. Personally I think you should change it up with some 10k or various distances, but if you're not in a rut, cool. As already mentioned, do 2 key workouts each week, one of which is the race. I'd do intervals or hills instead of tempo earlier in the week and treat the race like a tempo run.
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