Ran a 10k in June (5 Viewers)

[The Commish]

So, talk to me about shoes. I went to a running store many many many months ago and they analyzed my foot etc. Gave me the shoes. It's going to be time pretty soon for some new ones. Do I just buy the same thing again? I love the ones I have and I have no shin/joint issues right now, even at my current weight. This was a significant problem the last time I started running (among other things), but I have no issues this time.

What store? Typically what I do is go to a store, get fitted properly or as close to properly as they can, buy a pair at ridiculously expensive price for their trouble then snipe sales online until I need to change the model or something. If you have a pair you like then get them online if you can.

Pretty stellar day. Echoing Sand's enthusiasm for the beautiful weather around here (50-60) was a bonus. Ran about 3 miles with the C25k crew from church as a warm up then headed over to the 50k going on to run at least 1 loop and try to hunt down some friends that were running. Got my loop in chatting with the runners who were busting ### on the third 10.5 mile loop then went back out in reverse to pick up a friend and run the last 2 miles with her. So cool to see folks finish these races. The running group that puts on the race are the ones I do the Saturday trail runs with so it was cool to hang out with all of them for a few hours.

I went to both of the Run For Your Life stores in CLT....this was probably a year ago. The shoes sat in the closet for about that long. As soon as I got them, I dislocated my toe and it's taken me this long to get off my fat ### and start moving again. I plan to do just as you say, but I wanted to make sure things didn't change drastically from model to model. These are just now getting broken in how I like them. Was looking down the road. Is there a better store to go to around here than RFYL??

RFYL is as good as any. Omega Sports in the Riverside Complex (Target) is good if you run Asics or Brooks. Fleet Feet across from Baxter is also good but I've never been just heard good things from them. Sounds like you have a pair you're happy with so I'd stick with them. Incidentally what shoes do you have? There are always sales being posted in here so if someone happens to see your particular brand/model might help them to remember to post it.

Says Soucony Guide 5 on the tongue.

 

[pbm107]

Tri-man great job getting in the mileage and quality this weekend. 33 miles over two days is impressive and it sort of looks like ultra training. Between the snow run last weekend and all the shoveling your commitment to marathon training is definitely being tested.

My week was good as I mentioned earlier with my successful tempo run.

Mon: AM 6 miles easy on treadmill, PM 4 miles easy on treadmill.
Tue 14 at 8:52 avgHR of 132.
Wed 5 at 9:00 avgHR of 130.
Thur 11 miles 6 at tempo (6:37 168, 6:39 172, 6:39 171, 6:36 171, 6:36 171, 6:26 173.)
Fri Off
Sat 20 at 8:10 avgHR of 143
Sun 6 at 9:04 avgHR of 127

66 for the week

 

[ChiefD]

Week 3 in the books. Here's the info:

Mon: 4.15 Mile Run. 144 HR. 11:41 pace.

Tues: 7xHill Repeats. Not sure how to report this one. 2.04 miles.

Wednesday.3.36 Mile Run. 145 HR. 12:02 pace.

Thursday: Supposed to be tempo run. Fighting a sinus issue all week. Decided to rest - felt like crap.

Friday: 4.16 Mile Run. 148 HR. 11:21 pace.

Saturday: 5.26 Mile Run. 146 HR. 11:45 Pace. 3 Mile Hike With 9 yo son.

Sunday: Long run 9.02 Miles. 146 HR. 11:46 Pace.

So a weekly total of 27.99. Felt like crud all week due to sinus issues. Felt like I ran pretty hot all week in terms of heart rate. But, another week of trying to run slow, and no real visual progress, even though I know long term this will help.

Right now I feel like a slow freaking turd.

 

[FUBAR]

You're all kicking my butt on mileage.

Feb 1-7

18.3 miles run

1.14 miles swim

21 miles bike

6 mile hike

 

[beer 30]

Says Soucony Guide 5 on the tongue.

http://www.6pm.com/saucony-progrid-guide-5 Better or same price you gave?Saucony btw

Nice training going on up in here. Was really hoping to get in 20 yesterday to give me a 50 mile week but came up 5 short. Coming week is going to be a hodge-podge of distance runs as my weekend is totally ####ed for trying to get in any mileage.

 

[The Commish]

Says Soucony Guide 5 on the tongue.

http://www.6pm.com/saucony-progrid-guide-5 Better or same price you gave?Saucony btw

Nice training going on up in here. Was really hoping to get in 20 yesterday to give me a 50 mile week but came up 5 short. Coming week is going to be a hodge-podge of distance runs as my weekend is totally ####ed for trying to get in any mileage.

Much better....I had seen several places in the $75 range which was still better than the $100 I had given up initially....this is even better I don't care what people say about you beer30, you're A-ok in my book GB

 

[sho nuff]

Haven't kept up much on here...and my running is just as inconsistent.

I think not preparing for any events id contributing to both.

Did want to add a slight update.

Dad had a scan early last week and yhe new tumor had shrunk to half its size from chemo and radiation. And what is left of the old tumor has stayed the same for a while now...which is good.

Thanks for all the thoughts and everything.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Says Soucony Guide 5 on the tongue.

http://www.6pm.com/saucony-progrid-guide-5 Better or same price you gave?Saucony btw

Nice training going on up in here. Was really hoping to get in 20 yesterday to give me a 50 mile week but came up 5 short. Coming week is going to be a hodge-podge of distance runs as my weekend is totally ####ed for trying to get in any mileage.

Much better....I had seen several places in the $75 range which was still better than the $100 I had given up initially....this is even better I don't care what people say about you beer30, you're A-ok in my book GB

arent the shoes in that link women's shoes?

 

[Sand]

Says Soucony Guide 5 on the tongue.

http://www.6pm.com/saucony-progrid-guide-5 Better or same price you gave?Saucony btw

Nice training going on up in here. Was really hoping to get in 20 yesterday to give me a 50 mile week but came up 5 short. Coming week is going to be a hodge-podge of distance runs as my weekend is totally ####ed for trying to get in any mileage.

Much better....I had seen several places in the $75 range which was still better than the $100 I had given up initially....this is even better I don't care what people say about you beer30, you're A-ok in my book GB

arent the shoes in that link women's shoes?

It's the Bruce Jenner special.

 

[The Commish]

Says Soucony Guide 5 on the tongue.

http://www.6pm.com/saucony-progrid-guide-5 Better or same price you gave?Saucony btw

Nice training going on up in here. Was really hoping to get in 20 yesterday to give me a 50 mile week but came up 5 short. Coming week is going to be a hodge-podge of distance runs as my weekend is totally ####ed for trying to get in any mileage.

Much better....I had seen several places in the $75 range which was still better than the $100 I had given up initially....this is even better I don't care what people say about you beer30, you're A-ok in my book GB

arent the shoes in that link women's shoes?

It's the Bruce Jenner special.

Yes...yes it is

 

[ChiefD]

Says Soucony Guide 5 on the tongue.

http://www.6pm.com/saucony-progrid-guide-5 Better or same price you gave?Saucony btw

Nice training going on up in here. Was really hoping to get in 20 yesterday to give me a 50 mile week but came up 5 short. Coming week is going to be a hodge-podge of distance runs as my weekend is totally ####ed for trying to get in any mileage.

Much better....I had seen several places in the $75 range which was still better than the $100 I had given up initially....this is even better I don't care what people say about you beer30, you're A-ok in my book GB

arent the shoes in that link women's shoes?

It's the Bruce Jenner special.

Yes...yes it is

Welcome to the running thread, The Commiss.

 

[The Commish]

 

[The Commish]

By the way...today's run sucked...think I went too quick. I'm at the point where I'm running longer than I walk (finally), but it was tough. Think I'll slow down the running part and speed up the walking part to get adjusted.

 

[beer 30]

Says Soucony Guide 5 on the tongue.

http://www.6pm.com/saucony-progrid-guide-5 Better or same price you gave?Saucony btw

Nice training going on up in here. Was really hoping to get in 20 yesterday to give me a 50 mile week but came up 5 short. Coming week is going to be a hodge-podge of distance runs as my weekend is totally ####ed for trying to get in any mileage.

Much better....I had seen several places in the $75 range which was still better than the $100 I had given up initially....this is even better I don't care what people say about you beer30, you're A-ok in my book GB

arent the shoes in that link women's shoes?

It's the Bruce Jenner special.

Yes...yes it is

Welcome to the running thread, The Commiss.

TADA! Would have been so perfect if he would have ordered them.

Sorry bud, wasn't intentional but you get the point, plenty of deals online (even for mens shoes) so when you're ready, the Googles are your friend.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Jux's 5K Training Week 6

My heart rates have lower than in the past but I think my perceived effort has been more difficult than what I'm used to for those heart rates. I'm not sure what to make of that.

Nice week hopefully you can find a 5k to race in soon. I have experienced what you are describing on HR vs effort as my fitness has improved.

For example I used to avg around 184 in 5Ks, but in my most recent 5K a PR I averaged 175.

10 miler was 180 and most recent 176

Half Marathon was 178 most recent 172

Marathon was 170 most recent 163

The only time I recently I got my heart rate really elevated (184 avg/193 max) was a 5K I ran last July and the misery/suck index was at 160.

So hopefully the increased effort needed to achieve a higher heart rate is a sign that you are getting fitter.

Looking at my old data, I seem to be down about 5 beats on tempos than I was a few years ago. I find our experience interesting because it's not something I've read about. Just guessing here but, for me, I wonder if it's a sign that what's holding me back from being faster is not cardiovascular but muscular. I guess I should start doing strides again (I haven't in a long while) and perhaps shorter intervals.

 

[tri-man 47]

Jux's 5K Training Week 6

My heart rates have lower than in the past but I think my perceived effort has been more difficult than what I'm used to for those heart rates. I'm not sure what to make of that.

Nice week hopefully you can find a 5k to race in soon. I have experienced what you are describing on HR vs effort as my fitness has improved.

For example I used to avg around 184 in 5Ks, but in my most recent 5K a PR I averaged 175.

10 miler was 180 and most recent 176

Half Marathon was 178 most recent 172

Marathon was 170 most recent 163

The only time I recently I got my heart rate really elevated (184 avg/193 max) was a 5K I ran last July and the misery/suck index was at 160.

So hopefully the increased effort needed to achieve a higher heart rate is a sign that you are getting fitter.

Looking at my old data, I seem to be down about 5 beats on tempos than I was a few years ago. I find our experience interesting because it's not something I've read about. Just guessing here but, for me, I wonder if it's a sign that what's holding me back from being faster is not cardiovascular but muscular. I guess I should start doing strides again (I haven't in a long while) and perhaps shorter intervals.

and hill repeats.

 

[MAC_32]

Race Report – Dirty Love 10K

Now with 2015 ### kicking

So, of the 300 registered only 220 showed up for the actual race. Less people chickened out this year, but the treturous conditions still kept participants under 300.

It was 17 at the start of the race, we had an additional 3-5” over night on top of an already icy and snowy (about 6” when I tested a portion of the track earlier in the week) track. It was a balmy 37 this time around, but the snow was a lot higher and heavier in this version, still thigh high from all of the accumulation over the last couple of weeks but thankfully some melted over the 24 hours preceding. Y'know, so it wasn't waist high.

Here is a video of the start of the race - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOtpKgBv_Co&feature=youtu.be. I’m at the front on the far left – grey top w/orange stripes, white hat w/orange and brown stripes, orange and brown gloves, black tights/shorts. Tough to make out anyone and given what I’m wearing I’m easy to miss. I must emphasize this was hands down the easiest part of the race. A quarter mile sprint in an open field to the bottleneck as we enter the single track trail. The field was primarily fresh, light snow that wasn’t filled with tracks – not too challenging to run through. Can’t say the same about the rest of the course! I think I aced planning for this race outside of this 200 meter sprint. No video yet, but I think the guy was out there, so if I see it I'll post it. I'm the moron on the outside left not taking advantage of the foot prints in front of me from the leaders. I led the group on the outside and my heart was racing by the time I got to the bottleneck 40 to 50 or so back high stepping through the thigh high muck.

Until the final 50 meters the entire race is on this trail and it was fugly. Contrary to what I thought entering the race (I misread the map) there wasn’t a single flat stretch for more than about 50-100 meters except for the opening sprint. Just to give you perspective, the winner of last year’s race finished in just under 40 minutes, about 4 minutes in front of second place. The same guy won this year. In a time north of 51 minutes. The next four were spread out between 53:10 and 57:39, including one state cross country runner, before the steady stream started coming in at 59:06. Yes, you are reading those 10K times accurately.

I didn’t really know what to expect over the first mile as it was a foreign trail to me, but it was more challenging than I thought it could be. By my count, there four downed trees we had to jump, two creek beds to navigate, and the snow was packed in so tight in one spot that the only way to continue on was to jump over a picnic bench. Craziness. I’m just happy I took the initial sprint so aggressively because I can’t imagine the bottleneck that was going on behind me. I was in a pack of a half dozen ranging from 4th-10th throughout this first mile. Due to my poor planning at the start I was MUCH further back this time around, but the way my heart was racing I wasn't too pissed about it. Gave me a chance to get things under control then make up for lost time later. Less storm damage than last year, so there weren't any trees to jump and the race planner's must have had some complaints last year as there were paths cleared to the bridges instead of running through creeks and jumping picnic benches.

The 1 mile mark is just before the one real nasty hill on the course when things start to spread out. This hill is a 20% grade and more than a ¼ mile long. Many chose to walk it while I chose a very slow trot just so I could keep the legs churning, but conserving energy as the packed snow was like quicksand – no way to maintain any level of speed here. 2014 MAC, you're an idiot. As the rest of my race report detailed putting forth any energy and effort to this monstrosity was just plain stupid. I'm not repeating the mistake this time. Shortly before the hill there is a flat with some space to pass so I really bolted through this spot knowing I was walking the entire hill. I'm sure it caused some eye rolls behind me, but - planning. This hill would be the last time anybody passed me this time around.

At this point was when I thought things would calm down on the course and time could be made up. Wrong. We veered off of the main trail I expected and took a subsidiary into a river valley. Several up’s and down’s and side hill runs on ice and snow as well as 3 or 4 bridge crossings with stairs on either side. By the time we were back to the main trail I was already getting a little sluggish. Cardio was fine, but my legs were not as I had difficulty maintaining footing despite this part of the trail being (somewhat) flatter. This is when I began to get passed by people. Heh heh heh heh...silly, silly 2014 MAC. Prior planning prevents piss poor performance. This time around, I was the one doing the passing as I saved up my energy on the climb by walking. I paced the runner in front of me during any climbs, flats, turns, but the downs? I took off. The one obstacle I had to hurdle with each of these passes was the snow wasn't packed down during pass attempts. 40some people in front matted things down for the single trail, but the stuff was still knee-thigh high whenever I attempted to pass.

Going into the river valley I was 4th, and I was only passed by one person in there, but once getting out and others started picking up the pace I began to get picked off groups of two at a time. The first got me just before the first aid station at 2.5. I tailed them briefly, but then again instead of staying on the main trail I expected we veered into a subsidiary I was unfamiliar with. When we reached a steep sideways hill into a gorge I finally entered F this S mode. This was the first time I walked as there were steep, slippery stairs coming up out of the gorge so I took it as an opportunity to get my bearings back. I lost that pack of 2 then another pack of 2 caught me as I got to the top of the stairs. Making mistakes is fine, as long as you learn from them. The flat near the 2.5 aid station was actually much worse this time around as it's near the main park road so all that thick, heavy slush/rock-like snow had built up there. I actually stopped and walked for a few steps because it was just that bad. The subsidiary trail that ended me last year was probably my strongest stretch this time around. I've re-ran that thing so many times after screwing it up last year I knew when to pick my spots. I chased a few down before the first slippery stair case then assertively attacked the stairs down before walking up and out to catch my breath. Then the moment I'm up and out I take off again instead of needing to ease back into it. I passed people throughout this mile and a half that killed me last year, being assertive everywhere but the 3 stair case climbs, which I used to get my heart rate back under control by walking.

I ran with them for about a half mile, but it became evident their pace was just too vigorous for me as I slowly lost touch. We reached another gorge right before the mile 4 aid station and this was when the next pack of 2 got me. I again walked up the stairs to get composed again then tried running with them.

At this point we finally reached a part of the course I was familiar with. It was a challenging section, but mentally I knew it was coming so I handled it better than the previous challenging sections. As we ducked and dived through another river valley I conserved energy on the uphill portions better and exploded on the downhills to catch back up to them. Once done with this section there is about a ½-3/4 mile stretch that is generally a little more uphill than down and this is when I slowly lost touch with them. This is probably the hardest portion of the course to manufacture pass attempts, so this time around I ran through the mile 4 aid station to get ahead of the small pack ahead of me with the goal to catch the next pack before the steep dive around mile 5. I was able to get by all but one but that one I didn't get around was a good person for me to pace off of anyway. He was a little more conservative on the downs, but given how slick they were this was probably a good thing. He also dragged me up the climbs as this is when I usually slow down. I knew I needed to stay on his hip because immediately after the roller coaster is the one spot to really try to pass someone before the steep down after mile 5. I picked him off there then was able to pick up the pace and set my sights on the next pack for the mile 5 dive.

As we reached the end of it before diving back down the big hill (similar to the one we went up at mile 1) into the final mile another pack of two caught me. I was able to hang with these guys though. One passed me about ¼ mile before the hill but I was able to hold the other off. Probably my most proud moment of the race this time around. I reached a pack of 4 right at the top of this hill then blew right by them on the first 2 of the 3 downs. That allowed me to really attack the last down, the biggest, as I was able to stay in the packed down single track instead of tredging through the thigh high stuff to pass so I could get the next pack in my sights.

Once getting to the bottom and getting to the final tight mile I decided to just go stride for stride behind this guy as it was VERY tight here. During the two down hills I paced him I tended to catch back up to him after he gained separation and I knew the dive into the finish was downhill so I planned to pace off him then blow by him at the end. The plan worked well, this was probably my best mile of the race, but I didn’t realize just how little room there was at the end. Knowing how little room there was at the end, I was more aggressive during this stretch. It's tight...very tight, but there are spots to attack at the bottom of each down's as long as you keep your balance. Of the 3 person pack I picked off one right at the bottom of the first down then I got another at the same spot of the second down. That left the lead female in front of me. There is a very slick climb right before the final dive back to the lodge, so I let her get some separation on me there knowing I would build momentum on the way down and could make one final pass as we came out of the woods.

As we came out of the woods it was two tight turns and then a 30-50 meter sprint. I picked up momentum coming out of the woods and was about to pass him until I realized the tight turns, I had to lay off the gas and kinda hurdle a snow mound to prevent losing too much speed but by this time I needed to really dig deep to get past this long legged beast in the final sprint as I had lost all momentum. Another 10 meters and I probably had him, but he got me by 0.10 seconds. We separated from the other guy in the pack who finished 5 seconds behind. Mother f'ers changed the finish! I had her setup perfectly only to realize the finishing mats were setup right at the bottom of the hill as we came out of the woods, about 50 meters shorter than last time around. Oh well, she got me by two seconds.

Official time – one hour two minutes eleven seconds, 13th overall and 2nd in my age group. I never thought I’d be happy with a 10K time this high, but…given the conditions (and after talking with the others afterwards), I couldn’t be happier. It was excruciating. As those that regularly do half marathon’s told me, this was indescribably harder than any of those they’ve ever done. But it was a freaking blast. And I can’t wait to do it again. EAT #### 2014 TIME! 58:50, 3 1/2 minutes faster. 28th instead of 13th and 6th in my age group (I'd have won both the older and younger age groups though, ha!), but chatting afterwards there were a lot of new faces this year. Fast faces apparently, many of them fessed up to chickening out last year at the last minute, but despite the heavy snow battled through this year because of the warmer air temp's.

I'll admit the 2014 challenge was more physically demanding, but I think this year was more of a mental grind. Last year, you knew every step was going to suck. I didn't help matters by just wearing old trail shoes. This year I made that correction with yak traks, but mentally...this year was so much harder. Unlike last year, not every step sucked. HOWEVER, the steps that did suck were terrible and worse, unexpected. No idea how many turned ankles were made out there on the course, but I'd be surprised if it were less than a dozen. I am aware of at least a few that DNF'd because of them. Mine are feeling it today, but I was able to instinctively adjust when it happened to minimize the damage. Gonna need a few days off though. I did make a couple of mistakes that almost turned into REALLY bad mistakes, but thankfully I was able to control myself before falling off a cliff. Passing people on the down's was the correct move, but I struggled with a few because adjusting your stride going from the thigh high stuff to the packed down path again was difficult. I over corrected a couple of times and kinda zig zagged to regain my footing and both times there were steep cliffs directly to the right of me. Good thing I left myself with a few feet of room for error, so when I mis stepped I was still 18-24" from certain doom, but still...scary stuff. Probably contributed to me being happy I got stuck behind that guy on the roller coaster, so I didn't do anything dumb.

BRING ON VERSION 2016! This time around it will be without a stupid plan for the opening sprint...

 

[MAC_32]

No video, but photo

http://stevepiercephotography.zenfolio.com/p680859826/h649323c#hbea71ce

If I remember correctly, this was right after the mile 2.5 aid station while we entered that killer sub trail. I feel like an ### writing this, but it feels pretty good looking at all of these people in front of me here that I passed over the rest of the course.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Jux's 5K Training Week 6

My heart rates have lower than in the past but I think my perceived effort has been more difficult than what I'm used to for those heart rates. I'm not sure what to make of that.

Nice week hopefully you can find a 5k to race in soon. I have experienced what you are describing on HR vs effort as my fitness has improved.

For example I used to avg around 184 in 5Ks, but in my most recent 5K a PR I averaged 175.

10 miler was 180 and most recent 176

Half Marathon was 178 most recent 172

Marathon was 170 most recent 163

The only time I recently I got my heart rate really elevated (184 avg/193 max) was a 5K I ran last July and the misery/suck index was at 160.

So hopefully the increased effort needed to achieve a higher heart rate is a sign that you are getting fitter.

Looking at my old data, I seem to be down about 5 beats on tempos than I was a few years ago. I find our experience interesting because it's not something I've read about. Just guessing here but, for me, I wonder if it's a sign that what's holding me back from being faster is not cardiovascular but muscular. I guess I should start doing strides again (I haven't in a long while) and perhaps shorter intervals.

and hill repeats.

That too. Do you think what I wrote makes sense?

 

[beer 30]

No video, but photo

http://stevepiercephotography.zenfolio.com/p680859826/h649323c#hbea71ce

If I remember correctly, this was right after the mile 2.5 aid station while we entered that killer sub trail. I feel like an ### writing this, but it feels pretty good looking at all of these people in front of me here that I passed over the rest of the course.

Cute outfit

Great race report, looks like a great track...without the snow! You guys are crazy!

 

[pbm107]

Jux's 5K Training Week 6

My heart rates have lower than in the past but I think my perceived effort has been more difficult than what I'm used to for those heart rates. I'm not sure what to make of that.

Nice week hopefully you can find a 5k to race in soon. I have experienced what you are describing on HR vs effort as my fitness has improved.

For example I used to avg around 184 in 5Ks, but in my most recent 5K a PR I averaged 175.

10 miler was 180 and most recent 176

Half Marathon was 178 most recent 172

Marathon was 170 most recent 163

The only time I recently I got my heart rate really elevated (184 avg/193 max) was a 5K I ran last July and the misery/suck index was at 160.

So hopefully the increased effort needed to achieve a higher heart rate is a sign that you are getting fitter.

Looking at my old data, I seem to be down about 5 beats on tempos than I was a few years ago. I find our experience interesting because it's not something I've read about. Just guessing here but, for me, I wonder if it's a sign that what's holding me back from being faster is not cardiovascular but muscular. I guess I should start doing strides again (I haven't in a long while) and perhaps shorter intervals.

and hill repeats.

I haven't been able to find much online on the topic, but I did find the attached link. If you read the comments others have experienced what we have.

http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2013/10/interesting-info.html

I don't worry about it and actually see it as a good thing. It is one of the reasons why I don't race by HR. Once I plateau perhaps I could race by HR, but hopefully I am a long way from that.

 

[MAC_32]

No video, but photo

http://stevepiercephotography.zenfolio.com/p680859826/h649323c#hbea71ce

If I remember correctly, this was right after the mile 2.5 aid station while we entered that killer sub trail. I feel like an ### writing this, but it feels pretty good looking at all of these people in front of me here that I passed over the rest of the course.

Cute outfit

Great race report, looks like a great track...without the snow! You guys are crazy!

I remembered how frustrating it was trying to find my photos online previously, so whenever I run these things now I am sure to wear something easy to identify in the thumbnails. Yellow shorts, blue socks, and green shoes...that'll do, pig. That'll do.

I also have this ridiculous one from last year. Not clothes though.

http://stevepiercephotography.zenfolio.com/p551831686/hbef575a#hbef575a

Still can't believe my wife let me go a month without shaving and half a year without a haircut...

 

[Juxtatarot]

Jux's 5K Training Week 6

My heart rates have lower than in the past but I think my perceived effort has been more difficult than what I'm used to for those heart rates. I'm not sure what to make of that.

Nice week hopefully you can find a 5k to race in soon. I have experienced what you are describing on HR vs effort as my fitness has improved.

For example I used to avg around 184 in 5Ks, but in my most recent 5K a PR I averaged 175.

10 miler was 180 and most recent 176

Half Marathon was 178 most recent 172

Marathon was 170 most recent 163

The only time I recently I got my heart rate really elevated (184 avg/193 max) was a 5K I ran last July and the misery/suck index was at 160.

So hopefully the increased effort needed to achieve a higher heart rate is a sign that you are getting fitter.

Looking at my old data, I seem to be down about 5 beats on tempos than I was a few years ago. I find our experience interesting because it's not something I've read about. Just guessing here but, for me, I wonder if it's a sign that what's holding me back from being faster is not cardiovascular but muscular. I guess I should start doing strides again (I haven't in a long while) and perhaps shorter intervals.

and hill repeats.

I haven't been able to find much online on the topic, but I did find the attached link. If you read the comments others have experienced what we have.

http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2013/10/interesting-info.html

I don't worry about it and actually see it as a good thing. It is one of the reasons why I don't race by HR. Once I plateau perhaps I could race by HR, but hopefully I am a long way from that.

Interesting, thanks for posting that. That makes sense. I wonder if more will be discussed with this in time as HR training grows in popularity.

Edit: I just found this article that possibly discusses the science about this a bit: http://healthyliving.azcentral.com/must-athletes-exercise-harder-longer-achieve-maximum-heart-rate-10465.html

 

[Sand]

So I finally didn't work an 80 hour work week. And the Lord blessed us here with a 65 degree day (today and tomorrow). 7 hours so far this week, with a nice 60 miler today along with a couple decent runs and a couple spin classes earlier this week.

Hopefully another 60 tomorrow if my legs don't fall off.

Finished up the week with another 54 miler. So 150 miles on the bike and a total of 10 hours this week. Not bad.

My legs are going to hate me tomorrow.

Confirmed - my legs, particularly glutes, hate me. So not only do they hurt walking around, but also hurt sitting.

 

[tri-man 47]

Jux's 5K Training Week 6

My heart rates have lower than in the past but I think my perceived effort has been more difficult than what I'm used to for those heart rates. I'm not sure what to make of that.

Nice week hopefully you can find a 5k to race in soon. I have experienced what you are describing on HR vs effort as my fitness has improved.

For example I used to avg around 184 in 5Ks, but in my most recent 5K a PR I averaged 175.

10 miler was 180 and most recent 176

Half Marathon was 178 most recent 172

Marathon was 170 most recent 163

The only time I recently I got my heart rate really elevated (184 avg/193 max) was a 5K I ran last July and the misery/suck index was at 160.

So hopefully the increased effort needed to achieve a higher heart rate is a sign that you are getting fitter.

Looking at my old data, I seem to be down about 5 beats on tempos than I was a few years ago. I find our experience interesting because it's not something I've read about. Just guessing here but, for me, I wonder if it's a sign that what's holding me back from being faster is not cardiovascular but muscular. I guess I should start doing strides again (I haven't in a long while) and perhaps shorter intervals.

and hill repeats.

That too. Do you think what I wrote makes sense?

Juxt, it seems to me there are two ways to improve performance. First is to have stronger muscles that demand less fuel (oxygen). Second it to improve the fuel delivery system ..aerobic training. An ideal, then, would be to combine those together. Our long, slow training accomplishes the latter, but we help ourselves, too, by having stronger muscles. And I wouldn't say it's always a case of having stronger muscles ...we just need to avoid subjecting muscles to things they haven't experienced. For example, running a hilly race without simulating those conditions in training takes the muscles into unexplored territory, leading to fatigue and the need for more fuel. I see that as a benefit of sub-marathon pacing during marathon training - when running the race at marathon pace, the muscles feel like it's easy-peasy. (It's why I like marathon training runs of 21-22 miles ..to subject my body to a near-equivalent time on my feet.) Your lower beats per minute reflect your (and pbm's) improvement. Some strength/speed training could enhance that even further.

I have been trying to recall how much our super-stud, Steve, trained at and below marathon pace, and what sort of workouts were used. Or, Steve, did the huge mileage you put in accomplish both aspects? Stronger legs, needing less fuel, as well as an improved cardiovascular system?

ETA: It's the point that gruecd likes to stress: Every workout has a purpose. Recovery ...aerobic capacity ...strength ..lactate threshold training.

A technical article I came across on LT training: http://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Article%20folder/lactatethreshold.html

 

[FUBAR]

To tri's/grue's point, today was strength.

6 x (4 minutes PE 6, 25 air squats)

6 x (4 minutes PE 7, 25 push ups)

Felt really good, roughly 8 minute miles for the first 6, 7:20s for the last 6

 

[gruecd]

Hey guys. Still so busy....I feel like I'm never gonna get caught up with anything...

Had a couple good runs at the Pettit last week (11/7:49 avg on Wed and 8/7:40 on Thurs), and then life got in the way again. Went to Minneapolis to visit my sister this weekend, and running just wasn't a priority, so I basically just drank/ate a lot and didn't run all weekend. So instead I left work early yesterday and run 15 miles at 4 PM. Legs were tired the whole way, but it felt OK, and I averaged 8:04 pace. Not terrible for how little I've been running.

All in all, I guess I'm conflicted. I still love running and want to do well in Boston and everything, but right now other stuff...namely work and the new relationship, not necessary in that order...is just more important to me. Frustrating.

 

[Ned]

You guys are kicking ### in here. Kudos for doing all this hard work in the dead of winter. pbm - running 20 after that 11/6 tempo is KILLER!

I'm a fat slob right now. Between work being a nightmarish disaster and going to Vegas for an archery tournament, I have had almost no time to run. I may be changing jobs here very shortly - worried my fitness is going to take a far back seat.

 

[pbm107]

Hey guys. Still so busy....I feel like I'm never gonna get caught up with anything...

Had a couple good runs at the Pettit last week (11/7:49 avg on Wed and 8/7:40 on Thurs), and then life got in the way again. Went to Minneapolis to visit my sister this weekend, and running just wasn't a priority, so I basically just drank/ate a lot and didn't run all weekend. So instead I left work early yesterday and run 15 miles at 4 PM. Legs were tired the whole way, but it felt OK, and I averaged 8:04 pace. Not terrible for how little I've been running.

All in all, I guess I'm conflicted. I still love running and want to do well in Boston and everything, but right now other stuff...namely work and the new relationship, not necessary in that order...is just more important to me. Frustrating.

Gruecd sorry to hear that life is getting in the way of the training. Hopefully there will be more opportunities for you in the next 6 weeks.

You guys are kicking ### in here. Kudos for doing all this hard work in the dead of winter. pbm - running 20 after that 11/6 tempo is KILLER!

I'm a fat slob right now. Between work being a nightmarish disaster and going to Vegas for an archery tournament, I have had almost no time to run. I may be changing jobs here very shortly - worried my fitness is going to take a far back seat.

Thanks Ned. I am starting to get some confidence in legs (my hamstring is feeling much better) and I feel like it is time for me to get to work. I wouldn't worry about not running too much, I know when I ran a Fall Marathon the months of Dec, Jan, and Feb were my off-season. What kind of running are you doing?

 

[tri-man 47]

gruecd - how can you keep accurate timing in the Pettit Center? Do they have a mounted clock for runners to follow?

and MAC, I'm still marveling over that bad-### race (and race report).

 

[beer 30]

Hey guys. Still so busy....I feel like I'm never gonna get caught up with anything...

Had a couple good runs at the Pettit last week (11/7:49 avg on Wed and 8/7:40 on Thurs), and then life got in the way again. Went to Minneapolis to visit my sister this weekend, and running just wasn't a priority, so I basically just drank/ate a lot and didn't run all weekend. So instead I left work early yesterday and run 15 miles at 4 PM. Legs were tired the whole way, but it felt OK, and I averaged 8:04 pace. Not terrible for how little I've been running.

All in all, I guess I'm conflicted. I still love running and want to do well in Boston and everything, but right now other stuff...namely work and the new relationship, not necessary in that order...is just more important to me. Frustrating.

It's funny, at least from where I sit, to read this. You've run borderline elite stuff in the past when running dominated your life but you were in a slump socially. You've flipped it now and are frustrated

I think you need to enjoy life and the run. You can do both at the same time, they aren't mutually exclusive A co-worker and I have this conversation every week. He races mountain bikes with a group of 10-15 guys every weekend. Invariably someone pipes up about how slow he is or some other gripe about time or place in the race. Then the co-worker reminds them that they are 15 guys out of how many millions in the area out in the sun, racing every weekend and having fun. Time and/or place in a race suddenly becomes less of an issue. You're in a good place GB, enjoy the ride...and keep rubbing it in for those of us who live vicariously through you. All I know is you better not screw up your relationship before the beach vacation YOU DA MAN GRUE!

 

[gruecd]

gruecd - how can you keep accurate timing in the Pettit Center? Do they have a mounted clock for runners to follow?

I know it's 0.275 miles per lap, so I just figure out ahead of time how many laps I need to run, turn off the GPS on my Garmin, and hit the "lap" button every time around. Pretty simple, really.

 

[gruecd]

Hey guys. Still so busy....I feel like I'm never gonna get caught up with anything...

Had a couple good runs at the Pettit last week (11/7:49 avg on Wed and 8/7:40 on Thurs), and then life got in the way again. Went to Minneapolis to visit my sister this weekend, and running just wasn't a priority, so I basically just drank/ate a lot and didn't run all weekend. So instead I left work early yesterday and run 15 miles at 4 PM. Legs were tired the whole way, but it felt OK, and I averaged 8:04 pace. Not terrible for how little I've been running.

All in all, I guess I'm conflicted. I still love running and want to do well in Boston and everything, but right now other stuff...namely work and the new relationship, not necessary in that order...is just more important to me. Frustrating.

It's funny, at least from where I sit, to read this. You've run borderline elite stuff in the past when running dominated your life but you were in a slump socially. You've flipped it now and are frustrated I think you need to enjoy life and the run. You can do both at the same time, they aren't mutually exclusive A co-worker and I have this conversation every week. He races mountain bikes with a group of 10-15 guys every weekend. Invariably someone pipes up about how slow he is or some other gripe about time or place in the race. Then the co-worker reminds them that they are 15 guys out of how many millions in the area out in the sun, racing every weekend and having fun. Time and/or place in a race suddenly becomes less of an issue. You're in a good place GB, enjoy the ride...and keep rubbing it in for those of us who live vicariously through you. All I know is you better not screw up your relationship before the beach vacation YOU DA MAN GRUE!

Yeah, I've always struggled with balance....And I knew you guys were just using me for bikini pics!!

 

[Ned]

I can certainly identify with grue on this, aside from the bikini stuff . I'm an all or nothing sorta guy. This "balance" you speak of is very difficult for me too. Running 25mpw is mentally killing me.

 

[ChiefD]

Frustrating.

That is all.

 

[tri-man 47]

Frustrating.

That is all.

gruecd's life or your slow HR pacing? Either way, take a bigger view and both are doing just fine.

 

[ChiefD]

Frustrating.

That is all.

slow HR pacing? Either way, take a bigger view and both are doing just fine.

This part. I know it will get better. The competitor in me hates it.

 

[Sand]

Frustrating.

That is all.

slow HR pacing? Either way, take a bigger view and both are doing just fine.

This part. I know it will get better. The competitor in me hates it.

Since when does a Chief's fan worry about being competitive?

 

[Ned]

Frustrating.

That is all.

slow HR pacing? Either way, take a bigger view and both are doing just fine.

This part. I know it will get better. The competitor in me hates it.

Read back about 4 years ago and you'll see me crying about the same stuff. It's not going to magically click in a few weeks....Just keep working through the tough days (like today). It'll come around with time.

 

[ChiefD]

Frustrating.

That is all.

slow HR pacing? Either way, take a bigger view and both are doing just fine.

This part. I know it will get better. The competitor in me hates it.

Since when does a Chief's fan worry about being competitive?

 

[beer 30]

10 mile runs at 4am suck...just saying. Upside is I have supplier taking me to lunch at a local BBQ and I'm gonna run the bill up something fierce

 

[Juxtatarot]

Chief, I'm curious. What is frustrating? Do you feel like your heart rate is forcing you slower when your breathing and effort level seem reasonable? Or, are all parts frustrating?

 

[worrierking]

I hated the low-HR stuff for a long time too, but it was during the heat of summer and keeping the rate low was really difficult. It is such a great long-term payoff, it's worth the suck.

Ran three miles this morning. Achilles seems to be improving.

 

[tri-man 47]

10 mile runs at 4am suck...just saying. Upside is I have supplier taking me to lunch at a local BBQ and I'm gonna run the bill up something fierce

But the challenge then is staying awake. I'm fortunate enough to be a mile from work, so I don't need to factor in a commute after the morning run (8 this a.m.). Also, I can scoot home for lunch and a 15 minute nap (a trait I inherited from my grandpa). Then again, I'm of that age where I need that nap ...

 

[ChiefD]

Chief, I'm curious. What is frustrating? Do you feel like your heart rate is forcing you slower when your breathing and effort level seem reasonable? Or, are all parts frustrating?

Just the fact I have to run real slow to keep my heart rate down. I know the benefits will be awesome long term, but the analyst in me wants to see progress. I'm just one of these guys that likes to see results, even small, to help validate what I'm doing.

And really, you are right on the breathing and effort level. I feel like my body is telling me to GO, but I look at that HR monitor and I can't.

The frustration really is that at some point I know I'm going to get there - I just want to see it. Now.

 

[SFBayDuck]

Chief, I'm curious. What is frustrating? Do you feel like your heart rate is forcing you slower when your breathing and effort level seem reasonable? Or, are all parts frustrating?

Just the fact I have to run real slow to keep my heart rate down. I know the benefits will be awesome long term, but the analyst in me wants to see progress. I'm just one of these guys that likes to see results, even small, to help validate what I'm doing.

And really, you are right on the breathing and effort level. I feel like my body is telling me to GO, but I look at that HR monitor and I can't.

The frustration really is that at some point I know I'm going to get there - I just want to see it. Now.

Are you doing any testing to check your progress? Something like Maffetone's MAF Test - a 5 mile run (after a solid warmup) at your target HR, where you compare your mile splits. Do it once a month and check progress. It's also a good way to know when you've plateaued and you need to mix up the training stimulus to push through.

Or even simpler, just run the exact same route regularly at the same HR and see if your pace is increasing.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Chief, I'm curious. What is frustrating? Do you feel like your heart rate is forcing you slower when your breathing and effort level seem reasonable? Or, are all parts frustrating?

Just the fact I have to run real slow to keep my heart rate down. I know the benefits will be awesome long term, but the analyst in me wants to see progress. I'm just one of these guys that likes to see results, even small, to help validate what I'm doing.

And really, you are right on the breathing and effort level. I feel like my body is telling me to GO, but I look at that HR monitor and I can't.

The frustration really is that at some point I know I'm going to get there - I just want to see it. Now.

What are you targeting to stay under? 75 percent of max? If you run a bit faster but still "easy", how high are you getting up to? Heart rate training is a great tool, but I'm not convinced to you follow it exclusively and ignore breathing rate and perceived effort.

 

[ChiefD]

Chief, I'm curious. What is frustrating? Do you feel like your heart rate is forcing you slower when your breathing and effort level seem reasonable? Or, are all parts frustrating?

Just the fact I have to run real slow to keep my heart rate down. I know the benefits will be awesome long term, but the analyst in me wants to see progress. I'm just one of these guys that likes to see results, even small, to help validate what I'm doing.

And really, you are right on the breathing and effort level. I feel like my body is telling me to GO, but I look at that HR monitor and I can't.

The frustration really is that at some point I know I'm going to get there - I just want to see it. Now.

Or even simpler, just run the exact same route regularly at the same HR and see if your pace is increasing.

For the most part, this is what I do. Every week I tend to run similar routes so I have something to measure by.

This is only my 4th week of running by HR, so I'm not expecting miracles. Just a slight glimmer of hope would be nice.

 

[ChiefD]

Chief, I'm curious. What is frustrating? Do you feel like your heart rate is forcing you slower when your breathing and effort level seem reasonable? Or, are all parts frustrating?

Just the fact I have to run real slow to keep my heart rate down. I know the benefits will be awesome long term, but the analyst in me wants to see progress. I'm just one of these guys that likes to see results, even small, to help validate what I'm doing.

And really, you are right on the breathing and effort level. I feel like my body is telling me to GO, but I look at that HR monitor and I can't.

The frustration really is that at some point I know I'm going to get there - I just want to see it. Now.

What are you targeting to stay under? 75 percent of max? If you run a bit faster but still "easy", how high are you getting up to? Heart rate training is a great tool, but I'm not convinced to you follow it exclusively and ignore breathing rate and perceived effort.

Here is a breakdown that Ned helped me with. I'm going based on an educated guess of my max heart rate being 190. This is based on last year running as hard of a run as I could muster. So I'm trying to stay within the parameters below.

Easy runs and long runs: 145 and below

Higdon Tempo: 145 and below to start - get up towards 180 at the peak - come back down to 145 if you can at the end.

5K Pace: 178+ on each interval

3/1: 145 and under for first 3 - 165-173ish for the final 1.

Pace: 165-173ish

If I try and stay below 145 on my easy runs, I feel like I'm barely moving. Part of the issue, I believe, is that where I run has a lot of hills. I really can't go more than 3/4 of a mile without having an incline to go up. So while I can move pretty good on the flat areas and downhills and still keep my HR down, when I hit the hills I have to either slow way down - literally almost walking - or just know my HR is going to go up on the inclines and don't worry about it. Then I try to make it up on the flat ground and downhills and try and stay in the mid 130's to balance out my HR for the entire run.

If I try to run faster and get into the 150's and even the low 160's, I actually feel pretty good. And even in the 150's I still feel slow - like I have a lot more to give.

 

[Juxtatarot]

I know it's a bad word around here, but have you considered running on a treadmill once in a while? If the hills are messing you up, it might be interesting to see what your HR does on a flat surface.